Published: November 30th, 2011 at 10:48 am ET
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BRIEFING ON THE PROGRESS OF THE TASK FORCE REVIEW OF NRC PROCESSES AND REGULATIONS FOLLOWING THE EVENTS IN JAPAN, U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION (NRC), JUNE 15, 2011 at 9:30 A.M.:
Excerpt
Mr. Bill Borchardt, Executive Director for Operations at the NRC: [...]
The government of Japan released its IAEA report on the event. The report indicates that all three reactors, the cores, to some degree, are ex-vessel. The NRC staff has contemplated this scenario for some time, due to the duration of each of the reactors went without core cooling. However, it’s still too early to tell, and we don’t have specific evidence to show the exact condition, and how much of any of the cores went ex-vessel in those three units. [...]
h/t Anonymous tip
See also from today:
- NHK: Over half of fuel has melted out at Reactors No. 2 and 3, says Tepco's assumed worst scenario (VIDEO)
- US media only mentions report about melt-through at Reactor No. 1, not at No. 2 and 3
Published: November 30th, 2011 at 10:48 am ET
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Hope the will get heard...
sending...
This makes me so ANGRY!!!!!!!
This is ABSOLUTELY CRIMINAL!
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Hey Whoopie,
Have you heard from Stilljill?
I haven’t seen her in sometime.
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“…we don’t have specific evidence to show the exact condition…”
They didn’t know back in June, they still don’t know. It’s still a guess, and they call the most likely possibility of the computer simulation “worst case” to try to make people think it couldn’t be any worse.
A computer simulation based upon guesses is no more valid than the guesses and the coding combined.
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These top notch all knowing scientists sure don’t have a clue. Sort of a lot at risk to be so uncertain about this entire event. Guesses based on guesswork that’s what they got to offer.
More incredible is how we continue to be their lab animals. Time to climb out of the cage.
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But they did come up with “ex-vessel”
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ex-vessel , not in dictionary !
Severe Accident Ex-Vessel Interactions and Challenges to Containment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown#Severe_Accident_Ex-Vessel_Interactions_and_Challenges_to_Containment
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If TEPCO and others don’t stop saying the fuel melted through, I’m going to have hissy fit. The steel, concrete, aluminum, or whatever will fail long before the material ever reaches the melting point. Concrete is not good for 3000 deg C. Allowable stresses for all materials I know about are temperature dependent. Around 800 deg F to 1000 deg F there is no residual stress left in the material. In other words the concrete cannot support it own weight. The concrete will fail. The corium is in the ground. TEPCO is screwed, blued, and tatooed.
This process resembles thermit welding under water. The heat is so intense the water is unable to cool the thermit. The water will flash to steam long before it reaches the corium. Water boils at 212 deg F.
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@ Jackassrig,
they use a special form of Steel,
in F`Shima afaik Type 304
http://www.springerlink.com/content/6j2j8681m6rv8q02/
Regards
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Even T304 is temperature dependent. In fact SS is not any better than the Cr Molys which are better for heat.
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I just mentioned it because you talked about Aluminum and Concrete
The Corium will be afaik 2.700 Celsius,
this is a lot!
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BTW lets not forget the holes in the bottom of the vessel placed there to insert fuel rods…hence the phrase used by Arnie “the reactors are leaking LIKE A SIVE” Why think about the quality of fancy steal when there are holes for the corium to move through?
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Melt through has happened oh fun! I can’t wait until the gasses from the melt start building pressure under the reactors. It’s going to be so much fun when more fission releases happen. The people of the IAEA have 2 options here. 1.Lie to the public by lying for TEPCO. 2. Releasing all the information they have and offering to help. I’m guessing they like option 1 the most.
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May be they are waiting for the Explosion. Recent news lead in this direction:
- stop for the active work at the plant. Remember – they wanted to build other tents!
- change of the chief
- now these talks about meltouts
I am aware that it could be a wrong conclusion, but we have no positive data.I just say what I think and why.
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They do seem to be willing to admit more, as you point out – talking about meltouts. I had forgotten about the tents, again, you’re right, no more tent talk. Probably melting, like the rubber on the bottom of your boots. Aw, it was all show from the start – they knew in hours how bad it was and that nothing could be done. Hello, ET?
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They act if they are Monitoring this from outer space. Or watching an experiment in a petre dish.
There IS enough evidence to start a solution to save the current carbon units occupying earth.
Best case scenario is a mad max type future. (I guess I can finally get that Mohawk though. )
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The US solution is to detonate a nuclear device. I sure hope tepco isn’t thinking they can save money by do it yourself.
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Did you all know: There are video cameras inside the control room that are positioned all throughout the reactor core; along with sensors and meters which would warn tepco as to the exact moment the fuel breached the reactors containment.
The information is all digitally stored onto several servers which record all this data; even in the event of a power loss.
It seems that the NRC and IAEA are having a hard time being honest about where the nuclear fuel is. Likely because they knew in march that the containment was breached. (just as I did).
This piece only demonstraights how severe the situation is.
They are spoon feeding the world.
This is the biggest disaster since the extinction of the dinosaurs. Full disclosure of the events taking place on site is the only way we will progress from this situation.
If our top nuclear physists globally have not found a credible solution to ending this crisis by now.
I suggest they ask the entire global public for viable solutions to ending this crisis; As there has been little to no progress.
Everyone on this planet will suffer from this crisis. EVERYONE!
Yet I see no real global effort taking place.
What I see is finger pointing, name calling, lieing, and minimizing.
Were never going to fix this. It will end us all. Mainly because were never going to be told how bad it is. Not until our hair is falling out, and our lungs are filled with blood. Sadly, At that point the truth will be unavoidable, as well as the consequences.
I deeply hope that the international scientific communitys attempting to put an end to this crisis; will address the
public as to what the worst case scenario actually is.
The Apocalypse = Fukushima.
“Fukushima is an apocalypse” EU Energy commissioner 2011
Emmy nov 2011
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I beleive IAEA reported suspected breaches in a number of units first days of accident ! The article is here/site way back somewhere !
I know I posted in part … with a link, a few times in comments !
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
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true
but isn’t saying the fuel is ‘ex-vessel’ more severe than a breach?
theoretically, a breach could be at a point above the melted fuel, meaning the fuel would not be ex-vessel even though a breach has occurred.
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Terminology ex-vessel
Breach of the Primary Pressure Boundary
There are several possibilities as to how the primary pressure boundary could be breached by corium.
Steam Explosion
As previously described, FCI could lead to an overpressure event leading to RPV fail, and thus, primary pressure boundary fail. Haskin, et al. report that in the event of a steam explosion, failure of the lower plenum is far more likely than ejection of the upper plenum in the alpha-mode. In the even of lower plenum failure, debris at varied temperatures can be expected to be projected into the cavity below the core. The containment may be subject to overpressure, though this is not likely to fail the containment. The alpha-mode failure will lead to the consequences previously discussed.
Pressurized Melt Ejection (PME)
It is quite possible, especially in pressurized water reactors, that the primary loop will remain pressurized following corium relocation to the lower plenum. As such, pressure stresses on the RPV will be present in addition to the weight stress that the molten corium places on the lower plenum of the RPV; when the metal of the RPV weakens sufficiently due to the heat of the molten corium, it is likely that the liquid corium will be discharged under pressure out of the bottom of the RPV in a pressurized stream, together with entrained gases. This mode of corium ejection may lead to direct containment heating (DCH).
more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown#Severe_Accident_Ex-Vessel_Interactions_and_Challenges_to_Containment
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Severe Accident Ex-Vessel Interactions and Challenges to Containment
Haskin, et al identify six modes by which the containment could be credibly challenged; some of these modes are not applicable to core melt accidents.
1.Overpressure
2.Dynamic pressure (shockwaves)
3.Internal missiles
4.External missiles (not applicable to core melt accidents)
5.Meltthrough
6.Bypass
[edit] Standard failure modes
If the melted core penetrates the pressure vessel, there are theories and speculations as to what may then occur.
In modern Russian plants, there is a “core catching device” in the bottom of the containment building, the melted core is supposed to hit a thick layer of a “sacrificial metal” which would melt, dilute the core and increase the heat conductivity, and finally the diluted core can be cooled down by water circulating in the floor. However there has never been any full-scale testing of this device.[13]
In Western plants there is an airtight containment building. Though radiation would be at a high level within the containment, doses outside of it would be lower. Containment buildings are designed for the orderly release of pressure without releasing radionuclides, through a pressure release valve and filters. Hydrogen/oxygen recombiners also are installed within the containment to prevent gas explosions.
In a melting event, one spot or area on the RPV will become hotter than other areas, and will eventually melt. When it melts, corium will pour into the cavity under the reactor. Though the cavity is designed to remain dry, several NUREG-class documents advise operators to flood the cavity in the event of a fuel melt incident. This water will become steam and pressurize the containment. Automatic water sprays will pump large quantities of water into the steamy environment to keep the pressure down. Catalytic recombiners will rapidly convert the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.
more
http://en.wikipedia...
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One positive effect of the corium falling into water is that it is cooled and returns to a solid state.
Extensive water spray systems within the containment along with the ECCS, when it is reactivated, will allow operators to spray water within the containment to cool the core on the floor and reduce it to a low temperature.
These procedures are intended to prevent release of radiation. In the Three Mile Island event in 1979, a theoretical person standing at the plant property line during the entire event would have received a dose of approximately 2 millisieverts (200 millirem), between a chest X-ray’s and a CT scan’s worth of radiation. This was due to outgassing by an uncontrolled system that, today, would have been backfitted with activated carbon and HEPA filters to prevent radionuclide release.
However in case of Fukushima incident this design also at least partially failed: large amounts of highly radioactive water were produced and nuclear fuel has possibly melted through the base of the pressure vessels.[14]
Cooling will take quite a while, until the natural decay heat of the corium reduces to the point where natural convection and conduction of heat to the containment walls and re-radiation of heat from the containment allows for water spray systems to be shut down and the reactor put into safe storage. The containment can be sealed with release of extremely limited offsite radioactivity and release of pressure within the containment. After a number of years for fission products to decay – probably around a decade – the containment can be reopened for decontamination and demolition.
more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown#Severe_Accident_Ex-Vessel_Interactions_and_Challenges_to_Containment
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this sounds like there is a happy ending.
I don’t think happy endings involve worsening radiation emissions
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majia,
Depends on how much steam and hydrogen will be created, steam expanding a drop of water to 1700 it’s size in a millisecond, how much space is there to fill when it finds water ?
This is not a controlled environment as in the htwikipedia world, this is a rogue runaway beast with no leash or tamers as above describe !
We are deep in the woods here, and why all the experts are guessing and probabilities as myself !
There is still the radiation contamination for millennium to come land sea and air, we are all still screwed !
: |
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why do you get so worked up over them not telling the truth. We knew the truth all along. Have you noticed that no one else gives a shit… everyone I have tried to wake up just thinks i’m crazy. Those that I know that are smart enough to understand just don’t care. Those of us that care already know what is going on.
Who would they be telling if they told the truth, no one is going to look away from their reality tv programing or sports game, or michael jackson doctor trial, or today’s little miss gone missing investigation long enough to educate themselves. If you want to get mad at someone, how about all the stupid people around the world that let it get to this point.
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*VIDEO* TEPCO: Melted fuel ate into containment vessel
The operator of the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has announced the results of an analysis on the state of melted fuel in the plant’s Number 1 unit.
The Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, and several research institutes made public their analyses on the melting of fuel rods at 3 of the plant’s units at a government-sponsored study meeting on Wednesday. The analyses were based on temperatures, amounts of cooling water and other data.
TEPCO said that in the worse case, all fuel rods in the plant’s Number 1 reactor may have melted and dropped through its …
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/society.html
TEPCO says melted fuel eroded the bottom of containment vessel
TOKYO (majirox news) — The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) declared today that in the worst-case scenario, all the fuel rods in the Fukushima Daiichi power plant’s No. 1 reactor may have melted and fallen through to the bottom of the containment vessel. The bottom of the vessel is concrete topped with a steel plate.
TEPCO and several research institutes studied the melting of fuel rods at three of the plant’s reactors. They based their analysis on temperatures, amounts of cooling water and other data.
According to TEPCO, the fuel may have eroded the bottom to a depth of 65 centimeters (26 inches), which took place immediately after the …
http://www.majiroxnews.com/2011/11/30/tepco-says-melted-fuel-eroded-the-bottom-of-containment-vessel/
~~~
If we get enough reports from different source, we may be able to understand better what and when !
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Tepco is the sourse of all the data and we have a lot of reasons to expect wrong information. What if the lava is gone to the next level of the underground water? Thay may say the truth this time, but why?!
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Phoenix EPA radnet graph hit a posted high of over 650 CPM beta today and we are not directly under the jet stream.
Tomorrow or the next day we should be more fully blanketed.
My lungs are so tight I feel like I am suffocating (I have asthma).
I have the hepa filter running
We have never had a level this high posted by radent in Phoenix since I’ve been monitoring starting mid march
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Hi majia,
I feel it also, nose is burning, can’t seem to breathe in any good air, nose is bleeding when I blow, and I have coughing. My lungs don’t like this, feels like I need to wear an oxygen mask.
I felt this way in April and September, and now again.
My 4 1/2 pound Chihuahua today has been sleeping all day long, which is not like her. Recently, she has developed a lump on her chest.
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BTW..I live close to Phoenix
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I so hope your Chihuahua is ok.
I read somewhere that rodents and rabbits are best able to resist radiation of mammals.
Hopefully dogs and cats are also very resistant…
I think the complexity of the human brain makes it especially vulnerable to any environmental disruptions
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Thank you, she got sick last night. Who knows for sure if this is from the radiation, but the lump she has now and that I am also not up to my usual self has me suspicious.
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✿ܓ ✿ܓ ✿ܓ✿ܓ ✿ܓ ✿ܓ✿ܓ ✿ܓ ✿ܓ✿ܓ ✿ܓ ✿ܓ
Hope you to start to feel better, it’s here too, symptom’s !
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I second that. You all take care the best you can! I thought the radiation would only come on the jet stream. Is this fuku or something else going on down there?
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Hi xdrfox and Au
Thank you xdrfox, you take care also.
Au, Thank you..
We do have the Palo Verde Power Plant here, so who knows where this high level is coming from?
If I had to guess, I would say it’s coming from both places.
Yesterday our sky had streaks, maybe they are trying to zap the radiation?
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WSP says : “Yesterday our sky had streaks, maybe they are trying to zap the radiation?”
That’s interesting. Can you describe how they looked? It would be great if someone was actually trying antidote the radiation with some high tech tools.
Your beta is down to about 375 from 720cpm. Damn that was/is high. Gamma looks like it might be trending downward for the moment. I looked around at the western states at the gamma/beta rates and many were elevated. Anaheim, west of you only hit 190 Gross Beta cpm (as if that monitor has not been tampered with). North, in SLC they hit 260. I have come to the same conclusion you have- it’s a mix of fuku and your PVPP. This is some real Scheisse.
I hope your little dog perks up. (( )) hugs
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Hi Au
The only way I can describe it is, they were streaks back and forth like they were sweeping the sky’s. The streaks lasted for a very long time.
Thank you, I hope she feels better today also.
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Of course they were not chemtrails or you would have said so. What color?
Maybe radiation caused it? Maybe something trying to help us?
Ah, it could have been grey beams or black beans. Black beams run along the earth’s energy grids and are guides for aerosol planes laying down chemtrails and Black beams are a product of HAARP technology.
What do you think?
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So sorry to hear you guys not feeling well.
I have a pregnant friend in Phoenix too. Constant headaches for her (and today specifically was really bad) and at 6 months pregnant, tomorrow getting an ultrasound to “make sure the baby is growing” because it has not been…exactly how, as in weight or formation, she didn’t say.. *cringe* Fortunately, she has listened to me all along and has taken the best precautions she could so pray that’s enough.
Also, a niece in Portland, OR pregnant too, however, did not listen and did not take precautions and now 8 weeks…not too hopeful for that one…
Take care you guys!
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Babies normally grow a LOT in the last few months !
Here’s hopping all will be well !
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Hi LetThemEatYellowCake,
Hope your Friend, Niece, and their Baby’s will be ok.
I know about the headaches, aspirin has become my friend.
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Thanks you guys – I appreciate the concern and hopes. Prayers for us all
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The jet stream is over Phoenix now.. interesting, the beta radiation shot up a day in advance of the jet stream’s arrival.
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Gamma is way up too, oh my.
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/net2/Phoenix-AZ-Real-Time-US-Radiation-Monitoring-Graph.aspx
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Fuku probably already blew…..they’ll tell us when they feel we are ready to hear it.
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On Now ! here’s the App, live feed for Rense Radio “Jeff Rense Program”
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/livefeeds/16k.asx
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