NRC afraid bottom of Reactor No. 3 will break out and dump everything — First time it’s mentioned problem

Published: June 4th, 2011 at 10:05 am ET
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351 comments


Transcript for Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think, Chris Martenson, June 3, 2011:

[…] Now, Unit 3 has another problem and the NRC mentioned it yesterday for the first time and it gets back to that saltwater and the effect on iron. They are afraid that the reactor bottom will break, literally just break right out and dump everything. Because it’s now hot and it’s got salt on it and it’s got the ideal conditions for corrosion. So the big fear on Unit 3 is that it will break at the bottom and whatever else remains in it, which could be the entire core, could fall out suddenly. […]

Listen to the audio interview here.

Published: June 4th, 2011 at 10:05 am ET
By

351 comments

Related Posts

  1. NHK: Latest from Reactor No. 3 “may pose a problem” for efforts to remove melted fuel at bottom — No sign of water leakage from suppression chamber (VIDEO) July 13, 2012
  2. Real severe problem cooling Unit No. 3 reactor — Hydrogen explosion possible (VIDEO) May 13, 2011
  3. Newly-surfaced Video: “For some time” NRC staff has contemplated that all reactor cores are ‘ex-vessel’ due to time without cooling November 30, 2011
  4. Japan Times: It is now a “grave situation” at Fukushima — “Plutonium fission” mentioned for first time — “Criticality is very likely to have occurred” November 3, 2011
  5. After explosion at Reactor No. 3, TEPCO said it was too dangerous and time to evacuate plant June 13, 2011

351 comments to NRC afraid bottom of Reactor No. 3 will break out and dump everything — First time it’s mentioned problem

  • Whoopie

    WHOA! Thanks for the Heads Up!

    • ocifferdave

      I woke up on 9/11 and felt like my world changed forever. However, now it feels like I’m in a shared nightmare that nobody is waking up from but a very few. Won’t someone come over to my bed and shake my shoulder violently to wake me up from this and tell me to get the hell outta dodge while I still can?

    • Too True

      I read that they used >sonic devices< at the Three Mile Island reactor to accurately measure and map the exact location of the corium after the meltdown. (the images were on display c/o the Smithsonian)

      Could Japan use similar technology here?! It seems important to identify what the heck the corium is doing now in the meltdown process at this time!!… Even a partial image would be helpful for analysis by process of elimination.

      I mean this is the 21rst century, right? I don't why they can't upgrade more techniques from Chernobyl and Three Mile Island.

  • Red Mercury

    That would be the MOX laden fuel core. Yummy. I guess our problems with overpopulation are solved. Fewer people means less demand for everything. I wonder how that will sit with the red shield banking bunch.

    • Whoopie

      I think your right. What better way to rid the planet of “pesky taxpayers”. The Powers that be don’t need our stinking taxes…after all, it’s only a DROP IN THE BUCKET to their bank accts.

  • Inevitable really, it’s all happening now. Like a roller coaster ride you cannot get off of..

  • nomade

    Did they put any boric acid in there?

    Here’s the report Arnie was talking about I think. Page 37.

    http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1114/ML11147A075.pdf

    • Also talked of digging a trench around the perimeter and filling it with zeolite.

      He was surprised they weren’t doing that.

  • Steven

    I guess that corrosion issue was always going to come back and bite them. I keep seeing TEPCO reports re the pumping of fresh water into the various units, do they actually mean fresh water or are they still pumping salt water?

  • mark

    Wrote Arnie Gundersen as to possibly solving the problems and awaiting back from Him as to some procedures as to the fuel pools and reactor 3 Mark

  • Heart of the Rose

    Even Uncle Arnie can’t fix this.

  • radegan

    Old news – TEPCO said there were at least three holes in the bottom and they were worried they would enlarge. And when they enlarge enough to connect – the poop will drop in the potty. Less the 1.3 tonnes that shot out of the core.

  • you gotta love the spin they put forth on the crisis…

    The situation isn’t dangerous… However 36million tokyo citizens may need to immediately evacuate as soon as we say so…

    I feel a mixed signal between the two opinions…

    fyi when a group of nuclear scientists say they are “afraid” of something…

    its a pretty clear indication that the threat is not only rationally legitimate; but expected…

    • another fyi to japanese citizens… If your “national leader” walked out on you… Get a clue…

      • Heart of the Rose

        Our”legitimate” leaders have walked out on us as well.
        Heads up..America.

        • Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
          Or fill the drywell with our dead.
          In peace, nothing so becomes the people
          As modest stillness and humility:
          But when the blast of MOX blows in our ears,
          Then imitate the action of the tiger;
          Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
          Disguise fair nature with hard-favour’d rage;
          Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
          Let pry through the silence of the press
          Like the brass cannon; let the brow o’erwhelm it
          As fearfully as doth poison’d bedrock
          Permeated with undrinkable waters,
          Swill’d with the wild irradiated ocean.
          Now set the teeth and put the mask in place,
          Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
          To his full height. On, on, you volunteering seniors!
          Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
          Fathers that, so like old Musashi,
          Have in these parts from morn till even fought
          And sheathed their swords for lack of argument…
          Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
          Cry ‘Save Japan, and thereby save the world!’

          • bluerthanblue

            Very humble and realistic is the senior group’s offer, and very courageous. Of course, Japan will need many more volunteers if they get the time to work, given the volatile situation. Russia had it figured out down to seconds for 600,000 volunteers but they knew if they did not do something, Minsk would be flattened and Europe rendered uninhabitable. Arnie’s expert wisdom pleads the Japanese to build a huge moat, NOW! Build it 60 feet deep and 4-1/2 feet wide around the entire plant and fill it with Zeolite to contain the underground water seeping out. Each typhoon that comes in will, again, flood all the tunnels and disperse more radiation into the ground and ocean, eventually creating disaster in the decommissioned no’s 5 and 6 reactors (helping no 4 to topple, too). They can pump/filter water and spray dust inhibitor all they want but the most dangerous jobs are hidden and currently unmitigated. Where is Zatoichi, ‘The Blind Cane Swordsman’ when you need him?

            I hope to see Japan healthy again but it won’t happen without money, sacrifice, and hutzpah. The senior group’s offer and pressure from anti-nuclear protests are a good start. In this situation, time can degrade all good intentions. Protest to ‘Build a Moat NOW!’ while you still have a chance.

      • SteveMT

        These people need to be ankle-braceleted.
        We should be tracking where these people are at all times. At least telling us that everything is already from Antarctica will be avoided.

  • Whoopie

    I dont think I’ve told you guys how much I appreciate this website and all the posters here for the incredible work you all do! I cringe at what we’re looking at in Japan. This will end very, very badly. Hell! It’s already completely out of control. Anyway, thanks for all you do. You all do such a great job deciphering the BULLSHIT we keep getting from Tepco and the Gov. I Salute YOU!

    • Moco

      Hey whoop, this will be bad, but will never end.
      The destruction has only begun. The sheeple will go on and live their lives, and waiting for bullshit media to tell when and what to watch on the boob toob.

  • tony wilson

    ANYONE WANNA SEE A NICE REPORT ABOUT HOW
    MUCH TRASH WAS IN THE SPENT FUEL POOLS PONDS.
    a tepco report from last year : )

    http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf

    The situation is similar in Japan. A medium-term storage facility for waste from Fukushima Daiichi being built in the small village of Mutsu in northern Japan is not scheduled to open until 2012.The plan had been for that facility to hold 20 years worth of spent fuel.
    A longer-term and controversial plan to build a uranium enrichment and reprocessing plant at nearby Rokkasho has also faced repeated delays and technical difficulties in a project that dates
    back to the early 1990s.

    More than 60% of the uranium stored at Fukushima Daiichi made it through the quake and tsunami without being destabilized because it was kept in a separate pool built in 1997 and in a number of metal casks that do not rely on outside power, Japanese nuclear safety officials said.

    But the location of the remaining fuel storage pools – on the highest floor of the reactor buildings – exposed the fuel to additional risks because the pools would have swayed more in the quake and could have lost water through sloshing or leaks, experts say.
    As workers at the plant scramble to restore power to the plant and test pumps and other safety equipment, the main focus of the safety response has been to keep water in the storage pools by shooting sprays of water from a hastily assembled battalion of high-powered fire trucks.

    The water in the pools serves as both a coolant and a barrier to radiation. When the zirconium cladding on the fuel rods is exposed to air, it can erupt into flames.

    Pushing The Limits
    Fukushima Daiichi had over time been pushing the limits of the plant’s capacity to store uranium fuel on site, according to a Tokyo Electric presentation from November 2010 and now circulating among safety experts and environmental critics.

    The Tokyo Electric researcher who prepared that…

    • tony wilson

      Pushing The Limits
      Fukushima Daiichi had over time been pushing the limits of the plant’s capacity to store uranium fuel on site, according to a Tokyo Electric presentation from November 2010 and now circulating among safety experts and environmental critics.

      The Tokyo Electric researcher who prepared that presentation on the safety of spent fuel at the complex, Yumiko Kumano, could not be reached for comment. A spokesman for TEPCO declined to comment on its fuel storage decisions and whether they contributed to the crisis.

      “Our focus now is on responding to the situation at Fukushima,” he said.

      The TEPCO presentation noted that the utility had taken steps to increase storage capacity for spent fuel at the plant complex beyond its original design. Those included “re-racking” the pools in the reactor buildings to increase their capacity and then building a separate large, pool outside and a separate hub of metal casks that do not need to rely on electricity.

      But the only significant open space left for storage remained inside the reactor buildings, according to the document. TEPCO had the capacity to more than double the number of fuel assemblies stored in the reactors from 3,998 at the time of the quake to 8,310 assemblies.

      “They were headed for dense pack and that would have made the situation even worse,” said Frank von Hippel, a Princeton University physicist and former U.S. adviser on nuclear security risks in the Clinton administration.

      An official with Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, who asked not to be named because he was not speaking on behalf of regulators in a formal capacity, said officials would have to review safety policies on storing fuel inside reactor buildings. “This is something that we are going to have to look at after what’s happened,” he said.

      Safety Misses, Apologies, More Missses
      When Toru Ishida, a powerful advocate for the Japanese nuclear power industry, decided to leave his government…

    • WhatGoesAround

      If this doesn’t get people to realise what nuclear plants are really all about, nothing will.

      Slow death machines – for most species, not just us.

      As a side note, has anyone noticed the remarkable similarities between the policies of IAEA and Monsanto? They both boil down to “sell as much as possible as fast as possible and to hell with the consequences”.

      • Bread+Butter

        “If this doesn’t get people to realise what nuclear plants are really all about, nothing will.”
        Heard that before – 25 years ago
        Sad,huh?

        • WhatGoesAround

          Yep – but what do you expect when nearly everyone on the planet has been distracted into the ‘Great American Dream’ of ‘I’m all right jack, pull up the ladder!’ sort of selfishness?

          Everyone else’s nightmare, for sure…

      • ***Every time we build and operate a nuclear reactor, we do so with the implicit assumption that we shall forever be
        able to contain the radioactive poisons we create in the reactor. In doing so, we presume that we can predict the
        future for centuries and millennia to come, that we can isolate and protect nuclear reactors and nuclear waste from
        every single catastrophe that nature and man can inflict, including earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions,
        asteroids, human error, terrorism and war. History has already shown us that such assumptions are indeed both
        foolish and futile.***

        http://www.psr.org/nuclear-bailout/resources/lessons-from-fukushima-and.pdf

  • Steven

    For any keyboard warriors out there, plenty of websites still touting nuclear energy as clean, and downplaying the crisis to a befuddled public. This one for starters:

    http://www.4factorconsulting.com/energy-industry/nuclear-power-and-the-witch-hunt

    Go get ’em.

    • Whoopie

      Oh my god. Posting to HP right now. Those sons of bitches! Witch hunt?!?!? Dang, they are the EVIL ONES. TY!

    • Bread+Butter

      SIR YES SIR!
      (avec plaisir)
      🙂

    • Bread+Butter

      “your comment is awaiting moderation”

    • Sickputer

      Steven typed these pixels of light:

      >For any keyboard warriors…..
      http://www.4factorconsulting.com/energy-industry/nuclear-power-and-the-witch-hunt

      Please don’t pick on the poor lady. >;-) Margaret Harding is a former Vice President for GE. My gosh…she can’t even get her photo working on her new consulting site despite her smiling face plastered all over the open Net for her previous nuclear industry jobs. I luv ya Margeret in spite of you being such a modern Marie Curie mad hatter who displays such ignorance about basic cask storage temperatures of spent fuel rods. You and your buddy Don Luckey from Missouri must just sit around talking about how great background radiation is for your lungs. Watch out for that uranium rock he keeps by his chair though…Don does have that nasty red splotch on his back now! >;-)

      My gosh MH…with your 30 years experience in the nuclear industry you have removed any doubts in my mind as to what caused the poor safety records at GE nuclear plants. I would never post on your site to refute your silly rambling…because I have a firm policy against wrestling with imbeciles and pigs. As we know wrestling with a pig get you both dirty and the pig enjoys it.

      SP

  • Whoopie

    REPOSTING A POST FROM A ENENEWS POSTER:

    Kei Sugaoka, Fired GE Nuclear Plant Inspector Speaks Out On Fukushima, GE
    http://tinyurl.com/3hju2hm

  • hawkeye

    the only answer to fuku is

    a B52 strike
    just another day at the amusement park

  • mothra

    This is actually rosy news, since I in no way assumed the corium was contained in the vessel at #3. This would be a current disclosure as of early April.

  • hawkeye

    so you have a better solution

  • hawkeye

    its time for amputation ,get used to it

  • Heart of the Rose

    Reactor #3…containment breach..weeks ago…correct..

  • hawkeye

    little frogs dont know there in the kettle

    • Nevadan

      That’s what I’ve been telling people. I have never seen a better example of the frog in the pot story. Sad because I wanted to give people more credit. I guess those of us on this site just aren’t frogs. We jumped out of the pot right away.

  • hawkeye

    well im going out in the radioactive rain to day
    have fun all

  • Heart of the Rose

    We tried to talk to them over hors d’oeuvres.

  • AkDave

    People of Japan please leave now. Dang!

    • Whoopie

      I don’t know how many of you post at Japan HP but! We have a fellow named rooks who POSTS He lives in Japan with his family of YOUNG CHILDREN. It’s heartbreaking to think of what he is going through, not only physically but MENTALLY. What’s going to happen to people like him, who probably can’t leave. When I think we’ve got it bad here, I always remember Rooks and his wife and young kids. Heartbreaking…just heartbreaking.

      • DapperDo

        You CAN leave. You may not be leaving first-class, but there are churches & non-profits, there is public transportation, and there are social services organizations. And then you can offer your work ethic wherever you go. There were even websites during the Gulf disaster, where many U.S. families up north offered to put up families for free and/or give them jobs!… Just show appreciation and tell them that your family can’t withstand the health risks, so you had to evacuate. Keep thinking!… There is a huge underground network & many sympathetic people at your disposal. But, get moving on it.

        • DapperDo

          The point is that you will be broke if you get too sick to work, too sick to take care of your kids, lose your health insurance, and then have extraordinary medical bills…

          Health problems and resulting disability are the Number 1 cause of Bankruptcy filings in the U.S.–NOT relocation!…

        • DapperDo

          In Japan, I think you should go South and/or pursue contacts, visas, non-profit assistance & Asian Pacific groups abroad or in neighboring countries!… There should be an avenue for you to uncover.

  • annoyed

    Look at the pictures. There is no core in there. Where is the core top in the number three reactor pictures? The core is all around Fukushima surroundings and in the sea, I guess. It was blown away on march event. The level of the reactor top is completely gone. See the pictures, and compare them with diagrams. It’s all gone!

  • Heart of the Rose

    My thoughts are with the troops.May God protect the U.S.7th Fleet.
    http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=59366

  • DrNature

    Why NO ONE is reporting the TRUTH!!!

    NBC/MSNBC: Owned by General Electric the most powerful owner/controller of American Media and one of the most
    powerful Nuclear Proliferators. GE receives Multi Billions in no bid, DOD War Contracts
    Major Campaign contributor to Bush and Obama

    CNN: Owned by Time-Warner TBN, Major contributor to Bush and Obama Campaigns
    Ceo’s, Advisors and Board of Directors move back and forth between Carlyle Group (Major Nuclear Player) and Time Warner
    Time Warner representatives partner OFTEN with Carlyle Group

    CBS:Nuclear Energy moguls- Toshiba/ Westinghouse (headed by Carlyle Group,SOD Frank Carlucci)owns CBS …
    Carlyle Group and associated energy moguls pretty much control the worlds energy resources.

    ABC: Disney Media (2nd largest media conglomerate in the world) owns ABC
    Major contributor to Bush Campaign
    Major share Holder: Sid R Bass- Oil and Gas Baron…Forbes #158 Richest man in America
    Based in Texas close to his Carlyle buddies

    FOX: News Corp. owns FOX entertainment Group:
    Founder: Rupert Murdoch media mogul
    and among top Wealthiest and Influential men in the world\
    Heavily invested in oil and gas along with Dick Cheney, Lord Rothschild and Carlyle group
    Strong supporter of Nuclear proliferation and Bush campaign:

    None of these parties are particularly interested in losing Billions by reporting the truth.

  • annoyed

    Come on guys, let’s be honest. DO YOU REALLY THINK this makes sense? It’s Japan for god’s sake. Not some nuts state. Suddenly one of the best prepared places is messed and everything we would blame is nature????? Nuke plants are way dangerous, but not so much!!!! Fukushima failure was multiple and I do not believe in such a coincidence.

    • Bread+Butter

      It’s the tragic in the past and future Nuclear disasters that they were (and will be) unimagineable and therefore impossible for Most people. This is what you get while playing with uncontrollable substances.
      Mankind has failed, it’s easy as that.

    • Jeepers

      To identify the cause won’t solve the problem. “Prevention” is the mission — prevention by elimination of nuclear power plants.

      If men from Mars discovered our weakness, then I’d suggest “eliminate that weakness.”

      Focus on the future. Focus on the prize.

    • Fallout Man!

      I wondered that too at first. But looking around the net at technical anti-nuke sites, its only “luck” that this happened in Japan and not in the USA. Every year both Japan and the USA suffer nuke accidents that by dumb luck don’t do any “major” damage. This time the luck ran out. Its that constant series of cost cutting, lack of maintenance, and sloppiness that makes me think this was inevitable, and took the powers that be by surprise. If a private company knows that he government will pick up the bill when things go wrong, then safety won’t get a look in. The disaster was inevitable, its good to see Germany learned from it, but amazing to see that the US and Aus want to continue with their plans to build more of these time bombs.

  • Rica E

    dutchsinse on y tube not only predicts severe weather from haarp activity he shows you what it looks like on the screen perfect circles and squares cut out of the clouds on the radar images. Look at his posts before the severe torandoes in the east literally 24 hours prior to these off the charts weather events. the only thing missing as far as hard facts data is an official report neatly put out in the evening news. but we all know that just isn’t going to happen. time for all to brush up on writing and articulation skills, and I commend most on this site for having more command of their emotions when in debate with eachother, than any other web forum I’ve been on !

    • Anna

      “I commend most on this site for having more command of their emotions when in debate with eachother, than any other web forum I’ve been on !”

      I do too. There is no time or energy for fighting. We are all on this earth boat together and everyone is valuable. This is a site where some are hashing out numbers and science while there are those who are in charge of nurturing the next and future generations. Questions about Miso soup and baking soda are just as valid as ones about corium and physics.

  • hawkeye

    dec.5,1965 uss ticonderoga cva-14
    b-43 hydrogen bomb
    just rolled around for 50 years,,naa

  • ***Partially spent and fully spent nuclear fuel is extremely hot and radioactive in contrast to fresh fuel. Safe
    management of spent fuel rods is quite challenging. A U.S. Nuclear Regulatory fact sheet [1] states that after storage
    in a cooling pool for 10 years the surface radioactivity of a spent fuel assembly is still about 10,000 rem/hour. A 500
    rem dose delivered to a whole person in a single exposure is fatal. Close proximity to a single 10-year-old spent fuel
    assembly would deliver a fatal whole body radiation dose in about 3 minutes.***

    http://www.psr.org/nuclear-bailout/resources/lessons-from-fukushima-and.pdf

    • ***According to a General Accounting Office report in 2003:
      One of the most hazardous materials made by man is spent nuclear fuel—the used
      fuel periodically removed from reactors in nuclear power plants. Without protective shielding, the fuel’s intense radioactivity can kill a person exposed directly to it within minutes or cause cancer in those who receive smaller doses. As the fuel ages, it begins to cool and becomes less radiologically dangerous—some of the radioactive
      particles decay quickly, within days or weeks, while others exist for many thousands of years.***

  • ****Spent fuel assemblies are typically kept on cooling pools for ten years, but after as little as five years in the cooling pools, fuel rod assemblies can be packed into massive sealed casks. Casks are approximately nine feet in diameter and 20 feet tall with walls of steel and concrete for radiation shielding [5]. Casks can each contain 20-50 spent fuel assemblies. The sealed casks are pressurized with helium that circulates passively through cooling fins to dissipate the heat generated by the contained spent fuel [6]. It is uncertain how casks are monitored for rising temperatures or radiation leakage.
    Casks weigh upward of 120 tons. The Connecticut Yankee plant was cited by the NRC in recent years for dropping a
    loaded 180 ton dry cask 4 inches onto a concrete surface. [7]. Should a deep geological repository ever be developed,
    safe transport of these massive casks to the repository will be a daunting undertaking.***

    http://www.psr.org/nuclear-bailout/resources/lessons-from-fukushima-and.pdf

  • ***The toxic “life span” of spent nuclear fuel is about one million years [6], and this is one of the basic design parameters to be considered when developing a permanent high level waste storage site according to US law. Thus, owners of nuclear reactors are essentially required to manage this most hazardous of all man-made wastes, forever, and certainly well beyond the final shutdown and decommissioning of a plant. If new reactors are built in the future as desired by proponents of nuclear power, the prospects of accelerating accumulation of this million-year waste is truly
    overwhelming. Just as the costs of the total life cycle of doing so are effectively unlimited, the risk of a devastating accident involving a cooling pool becomes steadily more likely.***

    http://www.psr.org/nuclear-bailout/resources/lessons-from-fukushima-and.pdf

  • Anna

    OMGosh, OMGosh, OMGosh, 2 Black Hawk helicopters just flew low over our area heading direction south. I have NEVER seen that before. I don’t know what to think about that. Maybe it is nothing or not?

    • Bread+Butter

      Where is “your area”?

    • and you live up to your name…

    • Anna

      “Notice what you notice” is all I am saying. No reason to call me stupid. Have you had the FBI show up on your doorstep? Ever had your phones tapped and your emails read by the FBI?
      I have. Sheesh, no reason to be tracking me down. And all over a naturopathic protocol to help people incase of a small pox outbreak after 9-11.

    • Hummmm

      Were they ours or theirs?

      • Anna

        What do you mean?

        • Jack

          Anna Midwest…Black Helicopters a longstanding
          conspiracy-Govt. Martial Law Symbol, X-Files, etc.
          “Ours or Theirs”, a reference to seeing aircraft in a war
          zone or wartime, and you aint sure whether to shoot or
          signal for a rescue, or just WHAT THE HELL DO YOU
          MILITARY BOYS THINK you are doing, running around
          being little Demons.
          PLEASE TELL US if you see more Helicopters.
          In the Desert Southwest, we see trainloads of Armor
          heading to Cali quite often. Armored Personnel Carriers,
          Urban Riot-control Depopulation Vehicles.

  • I really appreciated that article too, with the pics,….and I think I am persuaded to believe it,…..HOWEVER,…the Author makes one SEEMINGLY insignificant error,…or misquote,…He/she said, “Israel considers Iran Big Satan.” That is a slight of hands, with VERY EVIL connotations! Israel DOES NOT call, nor consider Iran Big Satan! Period. The TRUTH is, Iran calls Israel “Little Satan”, and the US, “BIG Satan”! One little LIE,….and Israel is the bad guy. Nice try fuckers!!!! 🙁

    • Anna

      Interesting.

    • Red Mercury

      Hi Jill M. Clarkson. Tribe member here. Glad for your participation here. Hope we can all speak the truth and leave the mark of a limited vocabulary, the deleted expletive, at home. I feel strongly about misstatments miss quotes and miss charaterastions. In Jim’s ramble I find his reference to be one of hubris and typecasting but not without cause. I think any Country that bombs its neibhor when not engaged in armed conflict would have to be acting on a perception of great evil, Satan if you will. Jim is I think caught up, understandably, in the horror of the story. Not the best of journalism. About the recent history and current management of that hotly contested strip of land occupied by the only nuke armed, non-participant to non-proliferation, theocratic and apartheid government in that neighborhood; it still looks like the Stern Gang project. From all that I have seen in the ebbs and flows of justice, little has changed since then except a bigger program and better PR. A lovely idea but execution seems designed to cause and perpetuate conflict. Again thanks for being here with us in this community.

  • Nevadan

    I have been struggling with myself for weeks now about whether to mention what I know about HAARP. I brought it up on another site and was viciously attacked. A few years ago, I decided to come out with it on Coast to Coast radio but was cut off. George Noory was surprised and said the call was obviously cut off from an outside source. I’ve hesitated because there were repercussions earlier when I tried to go public and I didn’t want to put my family in danger.

    Maybe I will just do this…I am an eye witness to multiple events and so is my family and a friend. There were eight of us. Frankly, I can’t prove it because we took no photos out of fear of further pressure, but I will tell you…HAARP is real and more dispersed than most people think.

    This all happened 11 years ago. When I was researching to see if others knew what we knew (no evidence that anyone did) we came across a congressional report from the nineties reporting that congress okayed weather control experiments on our domestic population. Since then, that information has been removed.

    • Whoopie

      I feel your pain. Happens to me alot too. But you watch, it won’t be long HAARP will be EXPOSED for what it is. And chemtrails. Dutchsinse will be the very reason why imo.

      • Whoopie

        There is absolutely no reason for our skies to look so strange…EXCEPT FOR HAARP. Really…think back to when the clouds looked normal. None of them do today. It all looks UN-NATURAL.

    • Anna

      Dutchsinse is ready to testify before congress. All of his findings are documented. So, there is one person who is exposing it. Did you have black hawk helicopters flying over your house per chance?

      • Nevadan

        No, we actually saw things so unbelievable, that my family has never been tempted to share watching multiple events of tornadoes actually being created and steered to specific spots.

        I keep telling myself to keep my mouth shut because I don’t want them to do to us what they did when I tried to go public. My children were terrified. But now, I believe we are under attack and I can’t help but at least come out and say, HAARP is real and not just in Alaska.

        • Nevadan

          You know what? I’m just flat out mad. So I’m going to at least tell you guys where this happened. We lived on a ranch right over the hill from Area 51 in Nevada. They had HAARP there which didn’t surprise me. When I worked for Lockheed in what was called “The Black Hole”, once we had our technology working, it went to Area 51 for testing.

          They weren’t very good at first but over a period of about 3 years, we saw them improve their methods until it looked more realistic and not so fake. We have personal experience at how good they are at steering them.

          • Anna

            Do you think that has anything to do with all the little tremblers coming out of Nevada? Maybe there is a fault there?

    • Major Domo

      “I have been struggling with myself for weeks now about whether to mention what I know about HAARP”

      Why have you struggled? Because you know it’s complete and utter nonsense. HAARP exists. However, it is not made for fantastic man-made doom. HAARP, Chemtrails? Oh please.

      “A few years ago, I decided to come out with it on Coast to Coast radio”

      Well, there you have it. “Coast to Coast radio, your one-stop source for all your tin foil hat needs”. It’s entertainment. Why does no one get this?

      Dutchsinse? Enjoying his 15 minutes of Youtube fame, based on the same premise. Freak people out, and they will listen. It’s entertainment. People enjoy being scared. It’s amazing to me how people buy into his videos that suggest easily explained radar artifacts are somehow associated with an evil conspiracy to drive tornados into towns like Joplin, MO. Do you really think the Government would murder it’s own citizens that blatantly? OMG, get a grip people. Are you all high?

      • Nevadan

        Major Domo,

        I have long suspected that you were a disinfo agent. You have played it very smart…acting like you are all on-board so that you can have more influence when it seems very important. And let me tell everyone, this is something the government does not want out because as far as I can tell, eight people are the only ones who saw certain things and my family was threatened and more because of what we know.
        May I ask a question? Why not go after the people who bring this subject up all the time, like in this thread above? Why just me? I know the answer, and so do the disinfo agents.

        • Major Domo

          I’m no more disinfo agent than I am the President of the Unites States of America. Nevadan, don’t consider my comments a personal attack, they are not. My comments stem from a desire keep the topics on this board, on-topic. There are more than enough sites out there that discuss BS. This site was created to discuss a real tragedy, one which has the potential to affect all life on the planet. Fukushima.

          Anyone who buys into the nonsense, that is the REAL disinformation, please consider this.

          “The world has enough real problems, without us needing to invent new ones”

          Please quote me on that.

          There is more than enough evidence to support that extraordinary weather events, Earthquakes, etc., are due to natural phenomenon, unintentional human influences, or more likely, a combination of both.

          @ Anna – Yes, Dutchsinse ends most of his videos with “There you have it folks.” It’s called the power of suggestion. What are we to conclude from that suggestion? It’s clear to me that he’s suggesting something well beyond the truth.

          Bash away, I can take it 😉

          • Anna

            I don’t want to bash away on you at all. I’ve just been kick’n it Down Under for years and then I moved up to North America and I see the blue sky is gone and I say, “Wow, what is all this shit in the air?” I didn’t even know there was such a thing as a group of people that were called Conspiracy Theorists. It’s all new to me. Now, when I see these planes just dropping mega tons of this on us everyday, because I have a brain, I want to know what it is. Then one thing leads to another and all things are connected and there you have it folks. LOL No, just kidding.

            I don’t think Dutchsinse is doing the power of suggestion, simply, because he has loved watching the weather and has started seeing interesting things. He actually says when he sees things, “Hmm, look at that. I don’t know what that is but, that is new” or “that is interesting.”

            Sooooo, what does this all have to do with this site? Because the rain brings radioactivity down on us and many of us have been the unfortunate recipients of STATIONARY storms that last for weeks that just don’t blow off to the east like they should. The weather is being manipulated and it is being manipulated against us. Why not HAARP the ocean and bring it down out there?

            And so as to stay on topic I want to say that I wish all the best to the people of Japan and also I am so grateful to the selfless reactor workers who are sacrificing there health and even their lives to save the world. Words are not enough to thank them.

          • Irene

            Hang in there Major Domo.
            Don’t apologize. It’s not you. Call B.S. when you see it. Please.
            The whacky conspiracies, the tales of the under medicated, and the bent facts of the disaster profiteers, dominate here.
            It the site for balanced honest news? Decide for yourself. Try submitting a few stories and see what gets picked.

          • extra knight

            those whacky conspiracy youtube videos look beyond bogus, i don’t think anybody has a stranglehold on the truth.

      • Anna

        Dutchsinse does not call it an evil conspiracy. He does not call it anything at all. All he does is point out the rings and then says, “There you have it folks.” I’d hardly call him a fear monger. Have you ever listened to him?

        • Nevadan

          I have, and it has been eating at me for weeks because I have seen the technology and I know these tornadoes are being created and people murdered. That is why I am speaking up.

        • extra knight

          what major domo said, that guy is a crock of beans.

      • Darth

        I agree with Major Domo. HAARP is being blamed for Natural events.

        The question to the stupid humans on The Planet of the Apes is,

        WHAT IS TAMPERING WITH THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT?

        What if Nature itself is in an effort to get rid of humans who are wrecking the Natural order!

    • James

      Just FYI

      All the HAARP talk is simply negative PR to try and associate this topic and this site with crazy conspiracies, and get everyone off topic.

      That way when someone links to it they can say – Ohh, that E news – thats full of those HAARP nuts.

      It has zero relevance to Fukushima.

      • Dory

        I agree. Please stop this, everyone.

      • Rica E

        Just the fact that everyone is on a single website looking for facts/answers from diluted trickled articles on a subject that may threaten the health of all living things on the planet, after complete blackout, is enough evidence to give probability to things like weather manipulation(If you are that intelligent look up u.s. patents on the subject), and global depop.

        • Cassie

          Exactly: blackout, lies, contradictions, facts that do not add up.

          All the trolls and linear thinkers bullying us into compliance and “correct” discussion and thoughts.

          All of this raising some questions in my mind for sure.

  • hawkeye

    thats ok white bread and oil
    you can drink out of my canteen anyday

  • AkDave

    Just wonder when 1, 2, 4, will have the same ?

  • hawkeye

    fuku is on hospice
    and thats it

  • Nevadan

    if HAARP created the earthquake, and if HAARP is creating these tornadoes lately, then this subject could not be more pertinent. And NO ONE can tell me HAARP is a joke. I’ve seen way too much. So just go away if you aren’t interested and don’t touch our freedom of speech. This is something free people need to know is happening.

    Get thee behind me Satan. LOL

    • gimp

      @Nevadan
      This is definitely no HAARP or chemtrail blog here. So please feel free to find a more adequate forum where you can discuss about HAARP etc. Thank you.

      • Nevadan

        I did not start this conversation. It was being discussed for a long time before I decided to share this.

        When I came out with a little of this info on another site, the disinfo agents swarmed me in droves. So anyone who says what you are saying, even though you are being much more polite about it, I will call you a disinfo agent. The odds are, if the government took the trouble to cut the lines when I was on Coast to Coast, they will make sure disinfo agents come here to try and derail an eye witness to what they are doing to our country…and probably Japan.

        I won’t be shut down this time people. So don’t try. And I would appreciate all those of you who have discussed HAARP so much on this site to support my right to come clean with a little of what I know. Don’t be afraid of the disinfo agents.

        • ocifferdave

          I support you. Its science. Just because the sheeple don’t get spoon fed via media that it exists doesn’t mean the science falls apart. Now where is that link dutchsinse put on one of his vids to http://www.standford.edu showing many papers on the science of HAARP.

        • ocifferdave

          in the video description is where all those standford.edu pdf links are. However many are not working now. They had worked when I found them a month ago. But some still do.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhr5Oi8tCwA

        • charlie

          We really need a forum attached to this blog so that we can discuss different but related topics such as HAARP and radiation and medicine and so on according to our individual emphasis and interests.

        • WhatGoesAround

          Well put, Nevadan

          I always keep in mind a dictum I discovered on a site that is now seemingly and heavily under attack by Bwitish MI5-6, namely the 911forum.org.uk. There’s a poster on there who keeps getting banned, over and over again, for pointing this dictum out – it goes like this (dons anti-cognitive dissonance tin foil hat):-

          “We Will Lead Every Revolution Against Us!”

          This dictum was coined by the instigator of Zionism – one Theodr Herzl – check him out if you haven’t heard the name before. Isn’t it sick? They mean it though as recent events over the last 40 years clearly demonstrate!

          As for HAARP – even the EU Parliament got seriously alarmed about it as you (or someone here) have already pointed out – so it’s no conspiracy theory. The only aspect of it that is conjecture is what its really capable of, IMO.

          As for this site, whether it’s an IP collector with devious motives or not, so long as all the important links are archived locally, it really doesn’t matter, as since the Patriot Acts, we are all guilty until proven innocent – just like in the 3rd Reich.

          • Nevadan

            Thank you for your post. I came here this morning even though I’m usually too busy Sunday mornings, because I knew the disinfo agents would not be able to leave this alone. They really come unglued when I tell even the little bit of my story that I do.

            This morning, from what I have read, they have sent in their really professional people with language and psychological skills to sway people. I wonder how many of the regulars here will be swayed? I knew I was taking a chance when I spoke up yesterday, and wondered if I would be done. The reason I posted so much was that I was determined to not be shut up for the first time. So, again, thank you.

            Notice to government trolls: If you try to hurt my family again, I will go public with the whole story and trust me, you don’t want that.

            • Jack

              Please Protect Yourself, Like Maybe get cagey about Where you sleep, and stuff like that.
              Nevadan is Right On. Folks who don’t know the Wild West
              cannot appreciate how the Military Government has clamped
              down on your freedoms.
              Thank You Jesus for blessing Nevadan and his Family.
              Allow the Truth to be brought into the Minds clouded with
              darkness.
              In Yahshua’s Name, Amen

      • I vote we rename the beast to the High Altitude Auroral Research Project.

        http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/gen.html

        [It’s actually a real project. Whether it can or has been used to trigger earthquakes (and other questionable things) – e.g. used in conjunction with mining operations where this has occurred accidentally or carelessly – might be for another forum].

        Program Purpose

        HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes.

        The HAARP program is committed to developing a world class ionospheric research facility consisting of:

        The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI), a high power transmitter facility operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. The IRI will be used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere for scientific study.

        A sophisticated suite of scientific (or diagnostic) instruments that will be used to observe the physical processes that occur in the excited region.
        Observation of the processes resulting from the use of the IRI in a controlled manner will allow scientists to better understand processes that occur continuously under the natural stimulation of the sun.

        Scientific instruments installed at the HAARP Observatory will be useful for a variety of continuing research efforts which do not involve the use of the IRI but are strictly passive.

        Among these studies include ionospheric characterization using satellite beacons, telescopic observation of the fine structure in the aurora, and documentation of long-term variations in the ozone layer.

      • Jim Piver

        Thanks gimp. My sentiments exactly.

    • ocifferdave

      I can tell you I know believe weather/earthquake/volcano control is real, but do not understand the science.

      Secretary of Defense says its out there: http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

      My former general says HAARP is a weapon.

      David Farnsworth (grandson of Philo Farnsworth), my friend, says its real. Here’s an interesting patent he has:
      http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_tsunami18.htm

      • Nevadan

        Philo Farnsworth is my mother’s cousin, and my great uncle by marriage.

        Thanks for the support, Dave. You have courage and I admire that.

        • ocifferdave

          I can tell you just from talking with David Farnsworth, visiting his home and lab, that you guys come from some very smart stock! I was honored to meet him in my computer repair store (I had heard so much about him from a mutual friend, and read A LOT about him online). I just wish his other devices had a political green light so we could be using his and Adam Trombley’s clean energy.

  • Nevadan

    Enjoy your paycheck.

  • Heart of the Rose

    ok…here we go…. the patent.
    http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/appxhtml/BappendixparticulatesB.
    The plan…
    http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm
    The controversy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc5a1TKQLS4&feature=relmfu
    The truth with links..
    http://agriculturedefensecoalition.org/

    The story is it is for cooling the planet from global warming…but I thought there was NO global warming.

  • Nevadan

    Anna, yes I do. Some of what I know about what is happening in NV I can’t tell because of a paper I signed at my exit interview from Lockheed. But I didn’t sign anything about keeping my mouth shut regarding what eight of us repeatedly saw happen at Area 51, and the resulting tornadoes. This country is still supposed to be free and I have the right to speak up about this. And yes, this directly applies to Fukushima because it is becoming very obvious that we are under attack from those who want to destabilize society in order to take away freedoms, and to lower the population.

    • Poor Daddy

      We all have a built in information filter. Use yours please, and quit fucking with people!

    • extra knight

      did you see a dead alien with nekkid marshmellows on it. please enlighten me kind sir.

    • Darth

      You cite a Russian POLITICAL scientist to bolster your case that HAARP is a weather weapon. This is just plain wrong.

      I think Nature itself is scrubbing the planet – trying to get rid of humans who have bred out of control.

      • Benjo Honcho

        All I’m doing is keeping an open mind.

      • Poor Daddy

        I agree, Darth. Humans are a parasite/infection/cancer killing the planet/body. Earth’s immune system is kicking in to cleanse itself and get healthy again. Just cause and effect.

    • Nevadan

      Good info. Thanks.

      It is kind of funny to have people tell me this stuff isn’t true when I’ve seen it up close and personal. Keep it up.

  • Heart of the Rose

    Links and docs.
    http://agriculturedefensecoalition.org/
    What the hell does it take for the poeple to WAKE UP!

  • Heart of the Rose

    I’ve been meaning to ask you satan..why you havent told the people that the jet fuel itself is toxic and they know it..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11693943

    • DapperDo

      Condemned by Satan?? Now THAT’S a compliment! 😉

      • Heart of the Rose

        @DapperDo
        Gosh..
        Totally.
        Worth a lifetime of laughter..thanks.

      • Cassie

        Heart, if Satan hates you,
        that means you are a saint or angel. 🙂

        PS Now that he has destroyed the entire
        planet, guess he has a lot of free time
        on his hands to aggravate us here on this
        forum.

        • Heart of the Rose

          @Cassie..Thanks for the compliment..but I’m neither saint nor angel..
          I’m a bit of a “pistol” really ..lol.
          I will say this..we… those here..are the last of Humanity in Humankind.
          It is a blessing and a responsibility.

          • Cassie

            Oh Heart, yes.

            I am a pistol too.

            Came into this world kicking and
            screaming, knocked the sides out
            of the neonatal incubator and they had
            to send me home early. 🙁

            I intend to go out the same way,
            kicking and screaming.

            The responsibly part of this weighs quite
            heavily upon me. The blessing part I wish I could
            feel more, but I know you are right.

            Cassie

  • Nevadan

    Blenderful,

    If you find a certain subject distasteful, then don’t read it. Most of the time, HAARP is not a part of the conversation, but some of think it is pertinent and have the right to discuss it.

    Notice to disinfo agents: We will not be manipulated as you do other sites. These people have guts and honor so give it up.

    • Rosie

      Satan: Please desist. I’m interested in everything everybody has to say on this site…you included. Your comments though are becoming increasingly aggressive. If you don’t like this site maybe you should consider going elsewhere.

      • ocifferdave

        What Rosie said.

        • Whoopie

          DITTO Rosie
          Satan’s come unglued about HAARP. But why all the namecalling? Your anger only brings out MORE links supporting what we’re saying. If you don’t like the subject, then quit screaming how crazy we sound to you. Believe me, you are not alone. I’m having trouble convincing my husband on this subject. So calm down. No one is saying you HAVE to BELIEVE. Just take it into consideration.

        • Nevadan

          Thanks for the compliment for my family line. Science is exciting stuff. I’m working right now on a radiation shield for people. It works on the same principle as the one NASA is testing right now to protect the spacecrafts. It is also used to protect sensitive instruments from radiation and I can’t for the life of me figure out why this simple physics isn’t being used to protect people.

          http://news.discovery.com/space/radiation-shield-shuttle-launch-110427.html

      • Time for an exorcism.

      • Out Foul Demon!

        Priinceps gloriosissime cælestis militiæ, sancte Michaël Archangele, defende nos in prælio et colluctatione, quæ nobis adversus principes et potestates, adversus mundi rectores tenebrarum harum, contra spiritualia nequitiæ, in cælestibusus. Veni in auxilium hominum, quos Deus creavit inexterminabiles, et ad imaginem similitudinis suæ fecit, et a tyrannide diaboli emit pretio magno.

        • Original Latin
          Priinceps gloriosissime cælestis militiæ, sancte Michaël Archangele, defende nos in prælio et colluctatione, quæ nobis adversus principes et potestates, adversus mundi rectores tenebrarum harum, contra spiritualia nequitiæ, in cælestibusus. Veni in auxilium hominum, quos Deus creavit inexterminabiles, et ad imaginem similitudinis suæ fecit, et a tyrannide diaboli emit pretio magno.

          English Translation

          Most glorious prince of the divine army, Saint Michael Archangel, defend us in this fight of ours against the hostile princes and powers, against those that want to govern the world in the darkness, against the negativity of all things spiritual. Do come to help men, those that God created in great number, those that He made in his image, and with great (effort) free (them) by the tyranny of the devil.

          And, while you’re at it Lord, please fix the spent fuel pool in reactor number 4.

          (I added that last bit)

  • Novamind

    I was told not to listen to satan.