Japan/US map showed 100 milliSv/hr “line” along the roadway west of reactor — “This stuff is spread everywhere”

Published: March 5th, 2012 at 1:24 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
37 comments


Continued from:

Title: Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s Fukushima Transcripts
Date: March 17, 2011
Emphasis Added

MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, Chuck, we don’t we got the best we could. We received this unsolicited document titled from the Federation of Electric Power Companies of Japan, FEPC, Washington, D.C. Office. And it has a — whether it’s valid or not, we don’t know, but it has detailed rad measurements associated with each of the reactors and buildings. And we have taken that text, to the best of our ability overlaid it on a map of the site, and we just finished that about 10 minutes ago. And we’re going to discuss it with the ET and get it to you.

[...]

MR. CASTO: What’s the bottom line? What’s it saying? What’s it telling us?

MALE PARTICIPANT: It’s telling you you’ve got 40 rem, 10 rem, you know, I –

MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible.)

MR. HESTA: I’ll tell you, between the buildings it looks like [...] We’ve got between 30 and 40 rem between the buildings, 30 rem between Units 2 and 3, 40 rem between Units 3 and 4. We’ve got what appears to be a 10 rem per hour line along the roadway that is just west of the unit, I’m guessing. We have –

MR. CASTO: Okay. So — I mean, in a sense it goes back to John’s argument. This stuff is spread everywhere.

MR. HESTA: Yeah. I mean, that’s not from contaminated steel inside –

MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, it could be.

MALE PARTICIPANT: This could be reinforcement.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Remember, that was a plume that –

MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible.)

MALE PARTICIPANT: John, the first 40 rem numbers we saw were well before the explosion in Unit 4, and the supposition at the time was that this was — was shine from green pools (phonetic).

MALE PARTICIPANT: And it’s – okay. Yeah. But when they tell you the dose decreases 70 percent when they bulldoze the crap out of the way, but –

MALE PARTICIPANT: Well –

MALE PARTICIPANT: — well, there could be some gross deposition to the west of the plant. There was a plume that migrated that way over the past two days, so there could be some gross deposition.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Deposition, but you’re talking between two units.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Yeah.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Aren’t you?

MALE PARTICIPANT: That deposition is a little bit downwind?

MALE PARTICIPANT: No, that probably — that’s probably a contribution of ground shine between the two units.

MALE PARTICIPANT: So in terms — so — not to play devil’s advocate here, but you had a pool that was probably fully drained, fuel that’s several thousand degrees, a massive explosion, and we think nothing is happening to the rods or the pellets in that explosion.

MALE PARTICIPANT: No, we aren’t saying that. But it’s just where it is. You can get dose outside from deposition, you could get dose outside from shine, or a contribution –

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.

MALE PARTICIPANT: — of both. You could get dose outside from spreading material, whether it’s fuel pellets or other stuff. And you can get –

MALE PARTICIPANT: I also remember that there’s other stuff stored in the spent fuel pool.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.

MALE PARTICIPANT: The old days of cobalt roller balls from the control rod blades, you (inaudible) and stored in buckets.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Fission products that collect along the wall inside the reactor building, blowing outside the reactor building, anything is possible. A 40 rem dose on a smear is something you can’t find in a operating powerplant, or you used to in the spent fuel, so –

MALE PARTICIPANT: The question is, though, you know, I mean, is the point of the discussion to say we think all the fuel is still in the reactor? Or it’s –

MALE PARTICIPANT: I don’t think it matters. I mean, that’s –

MALE PARTICIPANT: The purpose of this exercise is just to give them an idea for them to strategically lay the pipe. I mean, that’s the — so I don’t think it’s really — we really need to dicker over whether it’s fuel pellets or whatever the source is. The purpose is to give them an idea of the best route to lay the piping.

[...]

JACK: Yes, Mike, I don’t know that we’ve had anybody say that the fuel is covered with water. What I can tell you is there’s clear evidence of a very significant hydrogen explosion. The only source of hydrogen that could feed that explosion is the spent fuel pool, so there must have been very, very high temperature zirconium interacting with water. There is no visible vapors emanating from Unit 4 spent fuel pool area, which would be indicative of no water. It could also be indicative of a fully cooled core. That does not there is no source of cooling water going into the spent fuel pool, so to have a very significant hydrogen explosion, and then to think about the fuel being covered, those are kind of non sequitur concepts.

We do know that there were parts of debris, that the areas of debris around Unit 4 after the explosion which were contributing to very significantly high dose rates, and I understand that bulldozers were used to bulldoze that debris under some soil shielding, and the dose rates went down dramatically. That would be an indication that were fragments of fuel since there’s no other source of substantial radioactive material which would have been involved in that explosion.

So, there’s indication of a very significant hydrogen explosion. I want to make sure that it’s clear that we don’t know this. We are just interpreting this from the visual evidence that we have, as well as the radiological measurements. There’s evidence of a very significant hydrogen explosion. There’s evidence of fuel or some very highly radioactive material outside of the building after that explosion. And there’s no evidence of water vapor, which would tell us that the spent fuel pool is dry.

Published: March 5th, 2012 at 1:24 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
37 comments

Related Posts

  1. NRC: There’s got to be fission products or pellets in parking lot outside Fukushima plant March 5, 2012
  2. Top US nuke official in Japan: Take it slow “without just running the military in there to kill people” for us to feel better — Wait so it’s “without a lot of loss of life” — 300 millisieverts per hour OUTSIDE reactors before bulldozing ‘rubble’ March 5, 2012
  3. Report indicated five Fukushima workers have most likely received a fatal dose of radiation -NRC Transcript February 22, 2012
  4. Fears that storm’s deluge could spread radiation from ‘uncovered’ reactor buildings into air May 29, 2011
  5. Takashi: Plutonium evaporated and spread around as gas after Fukushima meltdowns September 27, 2011

37 comments to Japan/US map showed 100 milliSv/hr “line” along the roadway west of reactor — “This stuff is spread everywhere”

  • Bobby1

    What, no mention of bananas and airplanes? I thought they were experts.


    Report comment

  • aigeezer aigeezer

    "And there's no evidence of water vapor, which would tell us that the spent fuel pool is dry." Genius at work.


    Report comment

  • lam335 lam335

    More evidence that the story about the reactor itself exploding was mere cover–they KNEW the explosion occurred in the SFP:

    "… there's clear evidence of a very significant hydrogen explosion. The only source of hydrogen that could feed that explosion is the spent fuel pool …"


    Report comment

    • pure water

      Double speach – one for the public, different inside the closed circle. Figuratively said, they were sending the people on the next banana to the moon!


      Report comment

  • CB CB

    Entertainment Tonight?


    Report comment

  • PoorDaddy PoorDaddy

    "So, there's indication of a very significant hydrogen explosion. I want to make sure that it's clear that we don't know this. We are just interpreting this from the visual evidence that we have, as well as the radiological measurements."

    OK, now we're on the same page, let's spin the shit out of this. No immediate health concern. Less exposure than a flight from San Fran to New York. No worse than banana bread. Like sleepin next to your honey for a day or two. Oh, by the way, we better announce glitches in the rad monitors in US and Canada, and keep the real numbers under our hats from now on.


    Report comment

  • farawayfan farawayfan

    This document is well worth the read. If you want the juiciest bits, they're mostly clustered around the large numbers of blacked out pages throughout the document, a lot of which seem to occur when they start to address how to talk to the public. Shocking, but I guarantee not one note of this will be discusses by the so called news services.


    Report comment

  • TEPCO Busted Dead to Rights on Photoshopping to Deceive
    http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201202290027

    Check out this photo which is in the link above

    http://nukeproffesional.blogspot.com/2012/03/tepco-busted-dead-to-rights-on.html?showComment=1330979644558#c359109059344069912

    Also, cool poll posted on the blog, to the upper right, please speak your mind, weigh in on this.


    Report comment

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Ah, yes, the old proverbial "clone stamp" in Photoshop at work! A lame-O job, at that. You'd think if they were going to use Photsohop they could at least make it look kind of convincing.


      Report comment

  • Machomaker Machomaker

    Unit 3 — that doesn't mean there isn't a
    problem, we just don't have any indication that there
    is. Unit 3, the core is damaged, it's approximately
    half uncovered, is the best information we have.
    Primary containment has some damage. The greatest
    concern right now is the Unit 3 spent fuel pool, and
    possibly the Unit 2 spent fuel pool. But Unit 3 spent
    fuel pool, there's observed, visually observed
    substantial plume which appears to be a steam plume
    continuing to emanate from the Unit 3 reactor building
    debris. It does not appear to be smoke, it appears to
    be water vapor, so it appears that the spent fuel is
    boiling the water in the spent fuel pool.

    The radiation dose levels range
    approximately from 100 to 1,000 millirem per hour.
    That's 100 millirem per hour to IR per hour at the site boundary. Closer into the plant it ranges
    depending on times that the measurements are taken
    from 30 to 300R per hour in the immediate vicinity of
    the facilities.

    MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.
    MALE PARTICIPANT: I was wondering, is
    there anywhere we have like dose rate maps on site, so
    that we –

    CHUCK CASTO: I think we have that
    somewhere. Yes, I think we do. And it's bad, Jack,
    between units I remember some numbers between Units
    2 and 3, the two buildings, it's 450 to 600R.
    MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Yes, I saw that,
    too.
    CHUCK CASTO: So, you're talking lethal
    doses here, or certainly –

    What a bad confirmation.
    Too much blacked out pages.


    Report comment

  • sonnen.blum.239 sonnen.blum.239

    even with the scientists at Princeton now, for the last three days, I can't convince anyone that there is any danger or that we should concerned in any way. Even to the point that "if the japanese would quit lying then we wouldn't have had this (?) happen…" Such academic bullshit. I;ll stick with what my geiger counter tells me; take a lethal dose, you bleeding heart reporters.

    Oppenheimer was right: deadly, deadly shit.


    Report comment

  • Mothercares

    Hi Gang,
    I have read the comments and you guy's are really good at hiding your true feeling's ;) . However, the underlying issues are still there and what can we do about it. Even the map, with the disbursements in the air, can not take away the damage that was done last year. In Michigan, that time frame we had a lot of snow and it was cold. So… the heat was on….and we were breathing like normal people do. Now what? Should we start our own shop's and say, come on in, for a ten dollar's I'll geiger you and if you hit "Hot", well I give ya back nine for your trouble?????. When the shtf, are we going to be I told you so! or are we going to have answers to counteract the damage that is already done, to give us a longer life span than the friggin, time that we have now. Any comments, would be great.


    Report comment

    • vital1

      Mothercares,

      The enenews forum on how to combat radiation and its effects has lots of info on ways to extend ones life, and stay in good health.

      http://enenews.com/forum-best-practices-combating-effects-radiation

      This is the cheapest Geiger I have seen but only if you already own an iphone.

      http://www.mobilemag.com/2012/03/01/radiation-watch-46-pocket-geiger-counter-for-iphone/

      A couple tips for those new to using a Geiger Counter.

      If you do ground or external measurements on snow or wet surfaces make sure your Geiger counter in a sealed zip lock plastic bag. This is to protect it from contamination, and the elements. After out door use wash your hands and put on a pair of surgical gloves to remove it from the bag.

      Use one hand to hold the bag and the other to remove the Geiger Counter carefully. Then throw the plastic bag away and remove the gloves. Otherwise you could contaminated the Geiger counter. This is particularly important if your outside environment is becoming contaminated.

      Some of you use your Geiger counter to test food. Don't place it directly against fruit and vegetables etc., the surface contact could also contaminate your Geiger counter and prevent it from providing accurate measurements in the future. Put food for testing in a plastic bag first.

      Geiger Counters are not sensitive enough to be of much use testing food or liquids unless the food or liquid is considerably contaminated it won't show anything above your background level.

      You really need a scintillator or spectrometer to do food and liquid testing properly, and the skills to work this equipment properly. Then again Geiger counter testing of food, or liquids before consumption is better than nothing.

      ———

      Get the message out there on how serious the Fukushima nuclear disaster is
      quickly, and efficiently. You don’t need to explain anything just distribute the lifesaver.pdf (or create your own)

      http://technologypals.com


      Report comment

    • BillyRaz

      ten dollar's I'll geiger you and if you hit "Hot", well I give ya back nine…….

      Why give back anything? First A nice mudbath followed by sum zeolite pizza– Maybe a shot of Kumbucha Juice and then hit them with a lovely steaming cup of Jinsing !!


      Report comment

  • Mothercares

    Oh yes, I want to buy a geiger counter, where can I get one. Any help on that score would be great.
    Thanks, sorry I am being bitchy.


    Report comment

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Recommend you post your inquiry at the "Monitoring" forum.


      Report comment

    • aigeezer aigeezer

      I got one of these on the recommendation of some people here. I have no opinions on whether one brand is better than another though.

      http://www.geigercounters.com/PRM-8000.htm

      I bought my counter direct from the manufacturer, but I bought some GeigerGraph software from the site above and that site seems to carry most major brands of counter. The software arrived today as luck would have it, and I've just been setting it up. The software seems designed mainly for the US and other countries seem to be afterthoughts (I'm not in the States), but it seems to work fine at this early stage. The counter itself works fine without software.

      Make sure you check with some other people, as my experience is very limited. I'm pleased so far though.

      Oh, the manufacturer of mine – the site I bought it from – is at

      http://www.mazurinstruments.com/

      This is probably a good time to mention that you will have to fill out a bizarre and mildly intimidating End Use statement for the US government when you buy a counter.

      Good luck!


      Report comment

  • Mothercares

    Thanks Taters!


    Report comment

  • Mothercares

    Thanks Aigeezer, I appreciate the info!!!


    Report comment

  • FUKUSHIMA on now !!!*On Now* Rense Radio "Jeff Rense Program" here's the App, live feed for …

    http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/livefeeds/16k.asx


    Report comment