Published: July 30th, 2012 at 2:13 pm ET
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From: ET02 Hoc
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:28 PM
To: RST01 Hoc; RST12 Hoc
Subject smoke could be core-concrete interaction – see Chernobyl article (concrete is largely sand)
h/t Enformable
Excerpt below:
Flight Over Reactor
The director of the U.N.-affiliated IAEA, Hans Blix, flew over the reactor Thursday and said that smoke was coming from it
But Rosen, an American who is director of the agency’s division of nuclear safety, said today that the smoke was light gray and appeared to come from smoldering sand, lead, boron and dolomite thrown over the reactor to smother the fire. He said smoke was thicker and darker when the fire was burning.
Published: July 30th, 2012 at 2:13 pm ET
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sending...
WHEW! I'm feeling better. The "director of the agency’s division of nuclear safety, said…" it's safe to go back in the water…
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"The director of the U.N.-affiliated IAEA, Hans Blix, flew over the reactor Thursday and said that smoke was coming from it…"
R1, R2, R3, or R4?
What "REACTOR" of the four is Hans Blix discussing?
Obfuscation…
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It is a quote from 1986 when Hans Blix headed the IAEA. He was flying over Chernobyl.
The NRC apparently were discussing if the smoke seen at Fukushima was similar to that seen by Blix at Chernobyl.
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I was thinking the same thing but didn't have the time to source the original article.
At Fuku we've seen black, grey, white smoke and all it's variants…
.. Oh and lots and lots of steam.
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Thx, Hogweed for ther clarification.
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Oh, is that the 'weapons of mass destruction' hans blix?
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"…the smoke was light gray and appeared to come from smoldering sand, lead, boron and dolomite thrown over the reactor to smother the fire."
No workers went anywhere near Reactors1,2,&3 between 3/11/11 and 3/21/11, making this statement either mistaken or a lie (from a professional nuke industry advocate). My guess is he knew full well what should have been done at Fuku by March 21, 2011. Which is to throw sand, lead, boron and dolomite into Reactors1,2,&3 (and SFP1,2,3,&4) in order to put out the fires. But these reactors were going off like roman candles at the time, so nobody went anywhere near these reactors in this time frame. The only thing that eventually went into (and through) the reactors was seawater (on its way into the Pacific Ocean).
There was no sand poured into any Fuku reactor.
There was no lead poured into any Fuku reactor.
There was no boron poured into any Fuku reactor.
There was no dolomite poured into any Fuku reactor.
And anyone who tells you different is mistaken, or is a liar.
Some people have a lot of gall.
Lets skip forward thirty or fourty years into the future:
SFP1,2,3,&4 should be emptied by that time.
Reactors1,2,&3 will never be opened.
Coriums1,2,&3 will never be located within the reactor buildings.
TEP.gov will declare that the reactors are in a safe condition (they have done all they can do.)
TEP.gov will simply walk away.
The 20km exclusion zone will be made permanent.
Coriums 1,2,&3 will simmer…
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In 30 years, a cofferdam will have been built between Reactors 1,2,&3 and the Pacific Ocean. Inland of Reactors1,2,&3. Wells will be drilled into bedrock to pump groundwater out of the ground. This groundwater will drain into the ocean.
(This will be an admission by TEP.gov that Coriums1,2,&3 are actually underneath Buildings1,2,&3, in the bedrock underground.)
So long as the human race maintains these pumps (for hundreds of thousands of years), the cofferdam will function to keep groundwater from becoming highly radioactive as it flows past the Coriums on its way to the ocean.
If the human race neglects to maintain these pumps, or forgets about these pumps, the vast Pacific Ocean will die off from exposure to radiation. If the Pacific Ocean becomes a sterile wasteland, inhabited by no life form more complicted than bacteria, so will every adjacent land mass also become a wasteland. But not to worry, for no human eye will be around to see nor comprehend what has been lost.
Are we, the human race, really going to abandon our opportunity to deal effectively with Coriums1,2,&3? Are we really going to allow a few hundreds of nuke facilities to end human history on Earth?
Peace.
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excellent run philip…
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Aftershock: You have your moments, too.
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TEP.gov thinks we are all sheeple.
TEP.gov believes we aren't watching what they are doing.
But we are not all sheep.
We are watching what they are doing.
They did not prepare the plant to withstand what befell it.
They did not do the right things after the plants failed.
They are not doing the right things now to mitigate the damage.
They have not told the world that the situation is beyond hope.
They have not told the public and the world what has really happened there.
TEP.gov deserves their fate.
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I believe Rosen is saying that Hans Blix was incorrect – he wasn't seeing smoke rising from Chernobyl, he was seeing the smoke from the mineral stew poured into the Chernobyl reactor.
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philipupnorth, i thought boron was added to the SFP 4 after the first fire.
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There was nothing, other than sea water poured into the Fuku reactors. The NRC document is making a comparision of the smoke seen at Chernobyl with the smoke seen at Reactor 3, noting that sand may be the cause of the dark smoke. The subject of the memo reflects this.
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Thanks, thuddds, for your clarification, too. Folks who want to understand what this article is about and why TEPCO is reaching for the comparison to Chernobyl smoke, need to read the article rather than just the summary above. It will help make more sense.
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Transparent lies from the IAEA!
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"..we dont forgive, we dont forget.."
from a man WHO should have known better
Finland’s Halonen Says Japan Crisis Shows Nuclear Power Is An Interim Fix
"…While the crisis in Japan may prompt several governments to rethink their nuclear programs, the industry is unlikely to shrink, said Hans Blix, former United Nations chief weapons inspector.
“I think there will be a nuclear expansion due to the effect of global warming — it’s a necessity,” Blix said in an interview with Bloomberg Television’s Andrea Catherwood today…."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-15/finland-s-halonen-says-japan-crisis-shows-nuclear-power-is-an-interim-fix.html
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Any member of the IAEA is paid to promote the industry blindly.
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"..we dont forgive, we dont forget.."
Life does not forgive, or forget, it is incapable of these human emotions.
When will we, the lowest members of the family Pongadae finally get it? Life is not about us, we will be here for a measly bat of the eye in geological terms. Life is about our future, and we are failing.
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"“I think there will be a nuclear expansion due to the effect of global warming — it’s a necessity"
so the global warming nuts aren't concerned about the massive release of radioactivity??
the "small" amount of pollution Fuku is spewing is overshadowed by my BBQ and fireplace I guess…
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horndoggie, so why am i nuts?
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Yep, the nuke shills are busy to try and restore the public faith in nuke shit!
I wonder how much Blixkrieg got payed to talk shit?
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It's a quote from a 1986 LA Tims article about Chernobyl. Check the source links.
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HEY IAEA want to fight reactor fires you left a few things out of the mix.
CLASS- D Wet application can fight reactor fires heres the recipe
FIREFIGHTING LIQUID Below
Class d fire fighting chemical for burning metals BELOW INCLUDING REACTORS AND FUEL POOLS
Class D is this — > Class D (combustible metals) fire fighting agent comprises a detergent mixture, and sodium chloride although vitamin B-6 and bicarbonate soda may be present. The detergent mixture comprises an alkylbenzolyate sulfonate, non-ionic detergent and lauric superamide, linear alkylbenzene sulfonate, isoctylphenyl polyethoxyethanol, about polyoxyethylene sorbitan monooleate, lauric diethanolamide, about monoethanolamide superamides, and water.
Burning titanium, uranium, magnesium, zerconium, or any other type of combustible metal fire, can be extinguished by applying the liquid formulation directly to the fire using conventional fire fighting equipment.
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markww, maybe they didn't have any of that handy at the time
But, i imagine that pouring anything on top of molten corium is gonna stay smokin for a long time.
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Lead + Uranium= the stuff that murdered the KGB dude. If my memory is serving me, the only thing they had was oceanwater to pump on what was left of the rpv's and sfp's.
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I had to go back 15 plus years and dig up the Russian disaster and find my notes and work out the elements again as to class d firefighting, there are 2 kinds of firefighting one id dry the other is wet, the wet would have covered all the materials cooled it and put out the fire and conventional fire equipment on site could have sprayed into the area needed.You want cooling and smothering
Mark
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That's a unique way of looking at the "fires", however the Class D retardants are desined to quickly cool and cover metals undergoing a chemical reaction. Nuclear fuel is a self-heating solid, unlike pyrophorics, that require a great deal of energy to be removed,continually, to remain stable. I suspect it would take a Class D unit the size of the ExxonValdez to suit Tepco's needs.
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The class d is either a dry application or wet application . TEPCO used dry and here is how it all works. The wet would have been a smaller amount than the dry materials due to the cooling,smothering,and cooling of the fire the class d materials can put out Burning titanium, uranium, magnesium, zerconium, or any other type of combustible metal.
So it would have been feasible to use either but the liquid would have worked faster and it would have PUT A CAP on the materials too Mark
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Sure there was “core-concrete interaction”, as the corium(s) burned their way through the botton of secondary containment.
There was also "core-steel interaction" right before that, as the corium(s) burned their way through primary containment.
Anyone who has ever used a 2000+ degree torch to cut steel and seen the slag drop onto the cement floor understands what happens when a 2000+ degree corium decides to exit…
There is no material on this planet that can contain an angry piece of the sun…
Our pitifull fate is sealed with nuclear power…
Are you willing to accept that?
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