Nuclear Chemistry Expert: Steam at Fukushima reactor could be from corium burning through containment into groundwater

Published: January 7th, 2014 at 12:56 am ET


Judy Haar, former nuclear industry worker with a master’s degree in nuclear chemistry, Jan. 6, 2014: […] the story continues to linger, and the speculations have not stopped. […] With a high potential of fear-mongering, just the facts, please. […] First noticed in July, 2013, the plant, [Fukushima Daiichi] Reactor 3, suddenly started releasing steam. […] TEPCO […] hypothesized it was caused by rain waters seeping into the reactors damaged containment vessel which hit thermal hot spots […] On December 19, 24, 25, and 27, Reactor 3 started releasing steam, again. […] this is a strong indicator of the fragile state the site is in […] Reactor 3 ran on a mix of uranium and uranium/plutonium mixed fuel […] which experienced a complete meltdown. We don’t know for sure at this time, but the corium could have burned its way through the reactor vessel due to extreme heat, thus reaching the underlying ground water and producing steam. […]

In the months after 3/11, Haar concluded, “The Answer is Clear: Nuclear Power is Safe — The three major reactor accidents have shown the industry that even among the worst accidents, few and far between, there is little loss of life, as compared to other fuels.”

And it appears Tepco won’t be the only company in the area emitting plumes related to hot radioactive material — NHK WORLD, Jan. 6, 2014: Nuclear waste incinerator to be built in Ibaraki […] The personnel of JCO, a subsidiary of Sumitomo Metal Mining, began constructing an incinerator to dispose of low-level radioactive substances at its plant in Tokai Village, Ibaraki Prefecture, on Monday. The firm lost its business license for such processing after 2 workers died of radiation poisoning during the disposal process in September, 1999. More than 660 others in and around the plant, including residents, were exposed to radiation. […] The firm is hoping to begin using the incinerator in November […] Used work clothes and documents are among the item to be treated. […] The firm’s officials say the facility’s air-filtering system will prevent any radioactive substances from leaking outside. […]

See also: [intlink id=”nuclear-engineer-radioactive-plumes-always-coming-fukushima-unit-3-water-getting-hot-spots-fission-could-be-place-reactor-audio” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

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Published: January 7th, 2014 at 12:56 am ET


Related Posts

  1. Nuclear Expert: Fukushima is a pretty close approximation of ‘The China Syndrome’; Melted fuel cores burned through containment vessels and material is below reactor structures mixing with groundwater — Essentially it’s a machine that’s washing radioactivity into the sea (AUDIO) November 4, 2014
  2. Nuclear Professor: Blast at Fukushima Reactor 3 was like “exploding vortex ring” — Ejection of nuclear fuel implies there was a “criticality excursion” and steam explosion — Black smoke may have been burning MOX and uranium (PHOTOS) September 25, 2014
  3. Tepco: Steam may be from gas leaking out of containment vessel at Fukushima Reactor No. 3 July 26, 2013
  4. Documentary: Photo captures moment containment vessel destroyed at Fukushima — Workers: White steam is coming out of reactor! Radiation spiking in central Tokyo! — US Nuclear Official: “Fukushima was nuclear power’s finest hour… everything worked as engineered” (VIDEO) October 3, 2014
  5. Nuclear Expert: “Pretty good volume of steam” came from Fukushima Unit 3 — “Something is hot down there” — “The reactor core is going to do what it’s going to do” — Not much can be done besides monitor its ‘progress’ (AUDIO) October 3, 2013

430 comments to Nuclear Chemistry Expert: Steam at Fukushima reactor could be from corium burning through containment into groundwater

  • James Tekton James Tekton

    Extinction Level Event.

    Stay tuned for false flag events and more distractions for the state run propaganda media to hype up.

    • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

      No, it's not an ELE, it's just really bad.

      • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

        Even if it gets to the point that their own people are dying in droves, I guess their leaders will rationalize it with Darwinian natural selection, evolving the species, etc.

        And, they'll still keep it a secret, supposedly so that the people don't "panic."

        Panic and demand action?

        How about make their leaders lead by example and help carry the water. . .

        • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

          If i was a president i would have whistleblowed myself by now i think lol

          • bwoodfield bwoodfield

            He's the problem with that. The US is a major trade partner with Japan and a diplomatic ally. The US has military bases on Japanese soil. The Japan government is putting a media hush and spin on Fukushima. Because of that, the US extend the same hush and spin to it's media. If they don't it will hurt trade and diplomatic relations.

            I'm not saying that it's not completely idiotic, making sure your political aspects are intact before your own populace is taken care of but it wouldn't be the first time. Look how the US government handle 3 mile island. How many days went by before people were even informed that there was an incident there, and how much longer before people were informed that a meltdown occurred.

            • clamshellernh clamshellernh

              You are correct
              Also this could usher in a one world government due to the economic collapse that is eminent this has many legs
              I hate to sound like a militant survivalist
              But I have lived off the grid for many years as well as had a farm
              I feel very vulnerable living on the north shore of boston right on the ocean now
              We must form collectives from our neighbors
              Funny I have been chopping wood and carrying water so many years
              I long for good dirt and to teach how we can alleviate the game
              Changer on our hands Thank you so much for having me I have been here for over two years , and I find myself here all the time getting to know you all and learning . I will be starting a blog on surviving and giving some element of hope for the life on this planet , it's not for money but I could perhaps review some of the garbage being sold or how to make it ourselves , I am a herbalist and teacher as well . Seed saving is on my mind now .. Sorry for prattling on here and if I am on the wrong topic blessed and stay warm as please give me some encouragement and suggestions for this blog ..not a troll as you can see by my name

            • harengus_acidophilus

              By the way

              "The US has military bases on Japanese soil."
              The U.S. military wants to set his "territorial marking" in each country (like a street dog on each tree).


            • Listen to shocking details of IAEA Plutonium market, Yakuza and many other players. SHUT down IAEA.

              3rd Vid

        • You're right. But it's not just Japan. The world nuclear industry (for whom Japan represented everything nuclear they ever dreamed of – their showpiece) prompted its pet governments early on in the disaster to absorb the extrapolated population losses calmly and silently in favor of capitalist/trade machinations during this period of engineered global financial collapse. All of them are involved in all kinds of 'Masters of the Universe' game-playing. Nukes are just one of the beneficiaries of nefarious socio-political plans.

          I can actually remember the bad old Cold War – and even the Cuban Missile Crisis. They were never really going to make humans extinct in one fell swoop. But the strategic planning on all sides included projections on population loss, and all were willing to accept it as cost for playing the game. Daiichi will be no more deadly than bomb testing was no matter how quickly or slowly the crap is released.

          We are just numbers on a spreadsheet where we're weighed relative to how much income we produce for their games, versus how much we may cost them in social supports. They need a number of us or they lose by default. If projected losses are within the margin they just raise the limits, turn off the monitors & press.

          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            JoyB you have seasoned wisdom! 🙂

          • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

            Agreed but you are putting the cart before the horse. It's the nations that want bombs, not the industry that wants profits.

            The industry has been subsidized by nations to make nuclear power profitable despite liability, accidents, waste disposal, waste storage, etc.

            In fact, if nuclear power plants had to be made of pure gold to work, governments would just subsidize the gold in order to maintain their ability to produce weapons grade plutonium, now or later.

            Nuclear power isn't so much an industry as a cover story, a cover story for a select group of nations to build or maintain the potential to build nuclear weapons.

            Plutonium has replaced gold as the true sovereign metal.

            • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

              Now that we've been cutting back on warheads over the last few decades, it seems the world has enough weapons grade plutonium.

              So, lets end the charade of nuclear power, first by making nuclear power plants pull their own weight, without subsidies and immunities, and then pay to clean up their messes. We'll see how profitable that "industry" remains.

              If the diplomats and the spies want Japan to have nukes to counterbalance China, then give them the plutonium; why build nuclear plants upwind of our nation?

              • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                There may be and should be international considerations involved in "giving japan plutonium". Of course that didn't stop B.C. from giving China T.S. military tech. Starting to see a pattern here. Politics 101: How to Create Crisis".

      • GOM GOM

        With all do respect, do you not see the Earth's other non-human life forms dying from this man-made monstrosity. The Earth, as your Mother speaks to you daily. Do you not see the dying trees? Or notice there may not be quite enough O2 to let you breathe properly? Are you absolutely sure your food still taste the same?[mine doesn't] The whole "it's just really bad" sounds too much like ding-dong Pavlov education speaking.

      • Arto Lauri from Finland just sent new message to all nuke Warriors ..
        It discusses very interesting investigative methods and Why?
        …posted at 2nd Vid…..

        I am seeking someone able to translate Arto's Videos more articulately from Finnish to English which we will post as Transcripts to All of Arto's Videos.

        contact me at

    • GOM GOM

      China Syndrome: A nuclear meltdown scenario as [in theory, but not reality] there would be NOTHING to stop the meltdown from tunneling it's way to the other side of the world. So, class, how many cores do we believe melted? And what do we think will happen when the cores actually hit 'something'? Like, oh I don't know, maybe magma? [reality, not theory]

      • Castlemom Castlemom

        I'm no scientist but it would seem that gravity would keep it from going to the other side of the world. As far as corium meeting magma…. I don't know if that would fix the problem (absorb) or cause an explosion that changes earth forever. My opinion and 4.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

      • irhologram

        GOM In China Syndrome, I never understood why it was ever assumed the coriums would come out the other side of the earth…because it seems to me gravity would keep it in the core. I am interested the interactions of coriums with the solid nickel-iron core. Irradiation SEPARATES iron from nickel. Perhaps someone can explain this to me, (and explain why this complete change and transformation of the earth's core ISN'T doom).

        Although this link discusses chromium, as well as iron-nickel compounds, it seems to clearly state nickel and iron separate at varying degrees and speed depending on temperature and the amount of radiation.

        Page 620 "Radiation-induced segregation (RIS) is believed to be a factor in irradiation assisted stress corrosion cracking (IASCC) in sustenitic iron- and nickel-based components in light water reactors. Because of the deleterious effects associated with RIS, there is considerable interest in understanding the mechanism by which RIS occurs."

        Should RIS be discussed I concerning what will happen when the coriums start causing the center of the earth to "separate?" What do you suppose will happen when the mother of all belly aches hits the center of the earth?

        • irhologram

          Please. Someone respond about RIS. Radiation separates iron from nickel, as referenced above. If it's true that the coriums will not stop until gravity centers them in the earth's core, won't the nickel-iron core suffer deterioration, as the above source would seem to indicate?

      • artika rama

        GOm sorry , but have to correct you there ,, there is no way anything could go to the other side of the world , the furthest it can go is deep inside the core ,, after that it would be climbing AGAINST the gravity to reach the other side, just not possible .

      • The 'China Syndrome' is an imaginative way to describe the difference between nuclear lava and other rock and/or metal lavas. The corium self-heated variety will stay molten much longer, and be hot enough to actively melt whatever it's in contact with.

        Deal is, corium will behave like any other lava of similar viscousness in seeking the 'path of least resistance' in its duty to follow the dictates of gravity. This is why the several corium flows at Chernobyl went in different directions along different pathways. We can presume the same is true at Fukushima but with more tonnage and hotter (longer) temperatures. They were without coolant for six months, TEPCO now tells us.

        They've been pretty scattered, but the heaviest flows will also be the lowest. For awhile there in the summer of 2011 I half expected to 'see' corium coming out the tunnels or even the cliff face. Think of film you've seen on the science channel(s) of Hawaiian flows. Where it's 'frozen' by crust, then the crust breaks and more molten insides flow a bit turther downhill. But they've been in constant contact with groundwater for so long now I don't expect that. Even if the interior of the central bulk of the flows is still molten, I don't think they're still meaningfully on the move.

        That's just me, of course.

  • w

    Does Nuke-Numbed-Nut (NNN) J. Haar still believe nuclear power is safe today?
    She's just a typical NNN, who refused to face the fact that a variety of illnesses r related to radiation exposure, with or without nuclear plant accidents…

  • Whether or not it is an ELE event is up for debate. The site is not under full control with three reactors melted by the beach, disolving into the Pacific to mix with all the other pollutants certain humans have carelessly handled. But not a purposeful event. Stupid greedy people setting up nuclear power by fault lines and now a disaster so big it would bankrupt Japan and mess up world economy. They are willing to at least sacrifice the pacific to save money. More people will die but the economy will soldier on for them.

    • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

      Calling this an ELE (even if it were one) is a comment that provides "proof" of possible public "panic", "proof" used by silver-tongued advisors on bright-eyed-and-bushy-tailed members of the press corps and government, to convince them to LIE TO YOU.

      Let's have the data out before we start the "Chicken Little" dance. You are not helping the truth.

      • tbg

        How exactly are You helping the truth? What data? When should we dance? I hate to break it to you, but They have the data and its not coming out to play, unless edward snowden has some radiation revelations for us. The very idea that if perhaps people were calmer and didnt use statements like ELE, THEN maybe they will tell us the truth seems like sheer lunacy to me…perhaps shill lunacy. No one said ELE in the beginning and they didnt tell us shit…oh wait, they lied to us, raised the levels and stopped testing.

        Im directly in the first line for fallout, in hotSeatticle, and I must admit sometimes doom porn gets old, especially since many comments are directed at my locale and\or imminent death. However I was going to die before fukushima and Im pretty sure Im still gonna, but fuck tepco, Im not dying until Im dead.

        Still maybe more people need to try to wrap their mind around big scary concepts like the very real possibility of an ELE, and not be too scared that TPTB are gonna be too scared because the people are too scared.

        The loss of genetic viability of the human species within 20 years, and the death of either the plankton or plankton-food bacteria and thus the oxygen we breathe, come immediately to mind. Maybe if more people spent more time thinking about the possibility that HOLY SHIT HUMANS COULD FUCKING DIE and less time playing Candy Crush, Then maybe they would tell us some truth.

        • JMR

          One of the most awesome comments I have read. Thank you.

        • trexhatespushups trexhatespushups

          well said! this got the blood flowing! good points all 'round.

        • KidIcarus KidIcarus

          Fuckin' mic drop.

          See ya, shills.

          Thank you for putting it in perspective for the pro-nuke idjits.

        • flatsville

          He's done an excellent job of focusing attention on the 50 car pile-up in Japan to divert your attention from the nuclear accident about to happen right on the corner in front of your house. He hopes you don't organize the neighbors to get a stop sign. Those SMRs are something you can directly effect and shutdown while still on the drawing board.

          See Iowa as a recent example. Unkie Warren cried "Uncle" on the SMR and is now building a wind farm…but, he'll be back.

          His other friends in other states too.

        • Au Au

          Great comment although I did have to look up what Candy Crush was.;)

        • Life is an ELE, we all get to die. Maybe we'll get hit with one of god's not-so errant billiard balls and wink out in an instant. Maybe we'll end up poisoning the planet and ourselves so thoroughly that everybody dies over a few years. But Fukushima isn't the event to do it, it just gets to contribute its filth to the burden and shorten many lives by a little or a lot.

          Unless all humans become sterile or die before they reach puberty, humans will exist on this planet until the planet no longer provides enough usable air, food, water and livable temperatures to allow it. A nice big blast from the sun could fry the grid and melt nukes all over the world that don't have reliable long-term backup. But even that wouldn't be an ELE. Evolution itself dictates that a time will come when there are no more homo sapien sapiens on this planet. Planned obsolescence.

          I think of it like the projected global warming sea level rise. Which is scheduled to inundate some of the world's most populous cities. "Billions will die!" they scream, it makes me laugh. At inches, maybe feet of rise a year, most people will move uphill/inland rather than spend their lives waiting for the water to get high enough to drown in. Sheesh!!!

          • Agreed. Not an ELE, just a bone crusher that adds to all the rest of the NWO sewage all around us in politics, environment, zoning, fascism et al.

            Fukushima Research blog on articles and videos since 3-11-11

          • Life isn't an ELE, life is eternal and one if the key markers of a lifeform is that it has to ability to reproduce and continue for generations.

            An extinct species cannot do this. It's gone forever.

            • Well, consciousness may well be a 'quantity' of the universe that cannot be destroyed (but can only change form). Life in 3+1 dimensions of a material universe, on the other hand, is 100% mortal. Always has been, always will be.

              Humanity can still reproduce. Do so much reproducing that despite all our (considerable) challenges, we infest this planet like a virus. Until and unless that changes, we won't go extinct just because 'everybody' dies of cancer in their 40s or 50s if they didn't die of something else first.

              And regardless of whether or not our prowess of producing more children than we need keeps going with the same level of exhuberance, there will inevitably come a time when we are no longer homo sapiens sapiens, but homo sapiens whatever-comes-next. Evolution. It's 'designed' that way.

          • If 400 nuclear plants and 400 spent fuel pools melting down via a Carrington Event don't put an end to humans and most other life on the planet, that would be a miracle..

            Super Solar Storm To Hit Earth – 'Carrington Effect'; 400 Nuke Plants Will Melt Down/Explode; via @AGreenRoad

        • socref

          The truth: Fukushima 3 did not experience a prompt criticality.

          The fact to back this up: No extreme spike of neutron and gamma radiation (1e18) detected.

          The truth: No uranium in the plume

          The fact to back this up: No 185 keV gamma in the spectroscopy.

          • Um… there were some hefty 'neutron beams' early on, detected kilometers away. No CURRENT prompt criticalities that we've heard about is how that should be phrased.

            • socref

              No these were not in the 1e18 range characteristic of a prompt moderated criticality spike that could be determined. Plus I didnt get the call to come to Japan to respond to the criticality.

              • TooExpensiveToMatter

                "I didn't get a call to come to Japan to respond to the criticality"

                Neither did I.

                Anyone else here get a call?

                Who you gonna call? Radiation Busters?

                • socref

                  Yet I would have really got the call to help.


                  • TooExpensiveToMatter

                    Even if it were true, who really cares? (other than you, of course)

                    I've seen a lot of BS on blogs over the years, but this takes the cake.

                    Sorry, but credentials (even when they are real, which we have no way of verifying in your case) simply don't impress me.

                    I could not care less if you were Hans Bethe come back from the dead.

                    It's irrelevant. All that matters in science are the arguments and evidence.

                    So, let's stick with that and cut the self-serving BS, shall we?

                    • socref

                      I care. And that is all that matters to me on this subject right now.

                    • socref

                      Its only BS to you because you refuse to acknowledge that it might be true an rock your world view.

                    • TooExpensiveToMatter

                      Whether you realize it or not (and you apparently don't), what you have argued above is that the fact that you did not get the call to go to Japan is evidence that there was no criticality.

                      Let's assume that you really are Dr. Hot-shot nookyalur criticality expert (as another genius, George Bush, would probably call you)

                      You are telling me that that's your idea of "evidence" ? Seriously?

                      That's complete and utter BS.

                      As they say: "Absence of socref is not evidence of absence (of a criticality)"

                  • flatsville

                    socref, JapGov didn't call "you" because they made a decision to hide the truth about what was happening once it became evident.

                    >>>As they say: "Absence of socref is not evidence of absence (of a criticality)"<<<


                    Your unit at Oak Ridge will not be getting a lot of calls from overseas…that kind of call messes up your global trade relationships…Too Big a Tell to later explain away.

                • And what, pray tell, would you have done about it if they'd called you? Could you have prevented the meltdowns? The melt-throughs? The explosions? Exactly what would you have done to cure the Fukushima nuclear disaster as it happened?

                  • TooExpensiveToMatter


                    Assuming that his claims about nuclear credentials and work history are true (which I will do for kicks), it's not too much of a stretch to say that Fukushima might just threaten this fellow's very identity.

                    After all, anyone who has worked on something for his (he may be a she, but I don't wish to write s/he throughout) entire adult life and sees the nightmare that he was always assured (and assured others) could NEVER happen unfolding before his very eyes is bound to encounter a certain amount of cognitive dissonance.

                    I suspect deep down he feels as helpless as the rest of us, but simply can't admit — or even accept — that he, the "world expert"* can't even do anything.

                    He holds out the last vestige of hope that if things were really as bad as some say, he would have been called in on his nuclear-powered white horse to save the day.

                    Of course, this all assumes that he actually has the credentials that he does, which is hardly a foregone conclusion.

                    But either way, it really makes no difference because people need to look at the evidence themselves and should not rely on the "experts" to think for them, especially not when the experts have a vested interest (either financial or identity-driven)

                    • socref

                      I wonder if you can read your own x rays and diagnose disease and other things. If you can its because you have been trained as a radiologist.


                    • socref

                      The majority of the cognitive dissonance has been directed towards me in a hateful, vitriolic fashion – Ive been called a lot of nasty names all in the name of people wanting to protect their world view.

                      I know that no technology is perfect and yes there were bad things that happened over there. But the world will go on, and technology will go on.

                      The hard part is knowing that no matter who you are and what you believe, power is within.

                    • socref

                      reply to me at socref1 at gee mail dot com.

                    • TooExpensive –

                      Yeah, I've encountered quite a few nukes or one-time nukes (and ex-sailors who did Rickover's nuke school back in the day) who lived in absolute denial as it was happening. When I innocently asked how much hydrogen was in the overpressurized gas they needed to vent that first day but couldn't because the electricity was off, you'd have thought I'd just assassinated the Queen! There's No Hydrogen in nukes!!!

                      It occurred to me they'd never been told about that little detail per melting reactors and drained SFPs. Just some of the stuff they leave out in training because if it ever gets that bad you should be miles away and still running…

                      Still, the scientifically honest will change their views if reality proves out. Once the damned plants started exploding I heard no more of that. Then it was "but they're NOT melting!" As if that were any more reasonable. Some notions instilled by education die hard up against reality.

                    • socref – It's not that hard to read an x-ray. I've done it more than a few times, bone breaks are easy to spot. What's tricky is TAKING the x-ray. But then, that's not so hard either. An 18-year old with 6 months of teeth-cleaning at the local community college takes the x-rays at my local dentist's office. And when I was a kid, we got live x-rays at the shoe store!

                    • bo bo

                      If this guy socref is so important, how does he have so much time online? Enenewsers are taking turns feeding him round the clock and he has a response every second. He either is unemployed or this is his full time job.

                    • socref

                      If you can guarentee my anonymity, I'll point you to the right spot.

                    • TooExpensiveToMatter

                      It doesn't even make sense to say that "The majority of the cognitive dissonance has been directed at me"

                      A person can experience cognitive dissonance which leads them to act toward others in a certain way, but they are not "directing the cognitive dissonance at others" [sic]

                      But I get the drift.

                      People are calling you on your "BS and you are now the "victim".

                      Waah. Cry me a river.

                      You came on here with your condescending "I'm smarter than all of you put together" attitude under the assumption that everyone would just bow down to your Oracleness and simply accept what you say as the word of Apollo himself.

                      I meant it when I said people should look at the evidence themselves. That's how science works.

                      Saying that people should not rely on experts to think for them (see above) is not the same as saying that experts are useless.

                      As Richard Feynman once said (and I paraphrase) "if an expert can't explain something in simple terms that everyone can understand,they probably don't understand it themselves" (translation: Non-experts should beware of experts talking in buzzwords."

                      My mistrust of experts comes partly from my training as a scientist and partly from experiences I have had- eg, with medical experts, who most certainly CAN be wrong. I know. I've been there. In 2000, I suffered Lyme disease for six months all because it took me that long to find a doctor (after 9 docs at 3 medical centers) who would give me a simple…

                    • TooExpensiveToMatter

                      …dose of antibiotics.

                  • socref

                    my response would be to the criticality and those affected and not to the reactors or amerlioration of their situation. Thanks.

                    • Then they wouldn't have called you. Daiichi was in the midst of a certified Nuclear Disaster unlike the world has ever seen, and decon workers kilometers away were detecting neutron beams. Gnarly.

                      This wasn't a 55-gallon barrel of sludge zapping everybody not behind 3 feet of concrete and steel. Not much anybody can do for the guy stirring it when it went off. Give him a nice comfy bed in a lead-shielded isolation room, plenty of morphine. Order a lead casket, overnight delivery.

                      I understand your objections to criticality for the coriums now in-ground (water). Apart from occasional 'flash' fissions on the crust when it encounters water, it's not going critical. SFPs can go critical, but only one is in process, and all the work is remote control. We can hope they've got 'extra' water available on a moment's notice, keep the level up.

                      I don't understand the claim that they'd need you if going critical were a problem. You're assuming they care whether or not it goes critical. That's quite a laugh, not to mention somewhat egotistical.

                  • zogerke zogerke

                    you are speaking/ i would put some wager on it/ with us military operative. for me that puts things in perspective.

            • Excessive Neutron/Neutrino Emissions From Nuclear Power Plants, Mines, Recycling Facilities And Their Effect On Human Health; via @AGreenRoad

          • artika rama

            socref The truth ; there are 3 simultaneous meltdowns in fukushima , leaking tons of most radioactvie poisons into the environment for almost three years now and will keep leaking for who knows how long to come
            truth ; Radiocativity isotopes KILLS , and they dont spend in one plcae since they have such a long halflives they will be everywhere given enough time
            Truth : Somehow , talking to you makes me even feel like going on a vaction to fukuing shima , since you manage to play it down so perfectly
            SOmehow it feels a bit detached from the reality if you know what i mean , and just keeps me wondering whether someone so knowledgable like you could be so distantiated from the reality or are we dealing with a PR firm here .

            • socref

              Dont dispute that their were meltdowns.

              Dont dispute that isotopes in copious quantities can lead to very large doses.

              Im not detached from reality.

              Im not a PR firm. Im one guy. A very educated one guy. Your US tax dollars helped me get educated.

          • rakingmuck

            Enjoy your remaining time here

            • socref

              Are you implying there is censorship to keep the debate one sided? I have been civil and on topic, unlike those that have been real nasty and uncivil. Lets be better people and seek tolerance. All we are saying….

              • Provide something of value. What a thought.

                How about those total release calcs…sure they can be back of the envelope.

                • socref

                  Total release calcs should not be back of the envelope. This is what got Jaczko in trouble with his "50 mile zone". All he did was multiply 12 miles * 4 reactors and round up. He derived the 12 miles from the BNL report that assumes a full MAR release of inventory for 12 miles. Realistically I would have evacuated the first two miles and sheltered in place the rest until readings were above say 1 mSv/hr. Then evacuate in a staged deliberate manner from the inside out so as to minimize overall risks. I would not be surprised if some pedestrian was run down because someone 40 miles from the accident decided their life was in eminent peril which it was not.

                  So back of the envelope calculations are not helpful and possibly harmful in this regard when used to make shoddy policy.

                  • A range in one order of magnitude would be better than any crap we got out of TEPCO.

                    We are not "setting policy" we are making personal decisions on what levels of efforts and types of effort we should be making, based on expectations of the future.

                    The pot shot at Jackzo is noted.

                    That 1 mSv per hour would be mostly internal. And people were not set up to shelter in place, they did not have the supplies. You could be giving them 1*20 internal effective adjustment, 20 mSv and hour for 8 hour evacuation process, 160 mSv…thats a crapload dude.

                    Safety should be a priority, and conservative should be the approach.

                    • socref

                      No sir, you must be very accurate since this matters to the evacuation profile.

                      The 1 mSv/hr includes any internal dose since Sv is an "effective dose" which considers radiation weighed organ doses.

                      Sv takes into accout everything is you have the right instrumentation.

                      I agree with your last sentence about safety and conservatism.

                      What I disagree with is your "we dont have time for the scientific method… we need information now" bent.

                      We need to make sure that what we do will result in safety, not PANIC and FEAR.

                    • Such garbage. "A Rem is a Rem is a Rem," they always told me. It's true of Sieverts as well. Dose is measured in purely external units, as if it were all gamma. If you open the sheild and are careful, you can get a beta. Same with dosimetry, but the beta is always a separate reading. To be 'entered' or not 'entered' into the dose record depending entirely on whether or not the white-hat cares to record today. And they can always zero out any of that which might be inconvenient. Pure programming.

                      The only time I've ever seen interior versus exterior dose done on the 'damage factor' equation is for iodine, per (specific) thyroid dose. In a general reading of background in a plume, you are never going to get 'effective dose' internal for lung or organ internal. Never.

                  • Um… nope. Jaczko went with the 50-mile evac because he knew from USS Reagan reports at 150 nautical miles that 'pure' gamma shine from the atmosphere was so high as to exceed limits in 10 hours. I'd have advised evac of Tokyo, at least the northern 'burbs.

              • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                Oh, and I counter your cognitive dissonance with normalcy bias. BAM! You didn't mention you were also a doctor of psychology.

          • harengus_acidophilus

            Playing with logic

            "The truth: Fukushima 3 did not experience a prompt criticality."
            A "prompt criticality" isn't a "criticality event".

            "The fact to back this up: No extreme spike of neutron and gamma radiation (1e18) detected."
            Because of no neutrons or because of no detection?

            "The truth: No uranium in the plume"
            Which plume (time, location)?
            The fact to back this up: No 185 keV gamma in the spectroscopy."
            Or in the published results?

            Neither a lie nor true.
            Jakobus 5.12?


            • socref

              A prompt criticality IS a criticality event.

            • socref

              Because its easy to gather dosimetry and read the radiation from the criticality. Its easy to differentiate between a criticality that would lead to a violent explosion and an ongoing steady release.

              THe plume that UC Berkeley measured. It was reported here in ENE a week ago.

              • Neither standard-issue dosimeters nor TLDs measure fast neutron radiation, though it will impart extra energy (raise your count of alpha and beta, plus incidental gamma from those decays). If your field is somewhere between 5 and 25 Sieverts (Daiichi), you might not even notice. Unless you happened to be off-site looking for chunks of shrapnel (fuel, fuel rods, pieces of assemblies) with a really expensive meter…

                Which, not strangely enough, is how those neutron beams were detected in the first week or so.

            • tsfw tsfw

              That was meant for Socref re: " socref
              January 7, 2014 at 5:24 pm · Reply

              The truth: Fukushima 3 did not experience a prompt criticality.

              The fact to back this up: No extreme spike of neutron and gamma radiation (1e18) detected.

              The truth: No uranium in the plume

              The fact to back this up: No 185 keV gamma in the spectroscopy."

            • socref

              I said "there was no large neutron dose to the population else I would have got a phone call.. There are responders specific to criticality as there was in Tokai 99.

              The signature of uranium is like a fingerprint. It is 185 keV gamma photon. None were shown in the spectrographic data.

              Can you prove 185 keV in the data reported here on ENE?

              If you can show me the 185 keV spike, I might change my mind. Else no evidence.


              • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

                Hard to show a graph when RadNet screws with the data…don't ya think?

              • You're assuming they'd bother to include the 185 KeV spike on their readout, published to public. Why on earth would they do that? 'Masking' your graphs is a very simple matter of calibration and pre-programming. That's how they got the "open to the public" body-scanner at TMI2 to eliminate iodine-131 from the readouts. Reassure the public, because there's nothing you can do about the I131 source term increase… (a nice bit of detail from TMI2's resident coverup 'expert').

                The GeLi at TMI2 indicated significant uranium in the particulate releases too. Neither the utility nor the NRC ever admitted to anything but xenon and a mere 15 curies of iodine. It's not like these folks don't know how to cover their radiological tracks during a nuclear disaster or anything. They've had lots of practice.

                • socref

                  Its pretty hard to falsify a multichannel analyzer data stream, in fact probably impossible without having an obvious missing channel reading that can easily be detected. Why would they do that? I told people before I am not into conspiracy theories and what you describe is basically a conspiracy theory.

                  The state of the art in modern instrumentation has evolved well past the TMI-vintage instruments of 35 years ago. These are not GeLi detectors but room temperature CZT detectors that are small enough to fit in a cell phone. LLNL has developed them for Homeland Security.


                  • I don't doubt the technology has advanced greatly in 35 years. It sure as hell should have, since we've now got computers the size of iPhones. Still, my vintage G-M works pretty well despite no clicker, and the RM14 still alarms – plug-in, since they don't even make those damned batteries anymore. SafeCast has a nice pocket-sized bGeigie for a couple hundred bucks I'd love to get. I've been with them since March of 2011, didn't get one free. Ah, well…

                    It is never all that difficult to falsify anything if you've a mind to. Perhaps it's difficult to imagine for someone who wouldn't do such a thing, but not everybody's got scruples. I was in charge of dosimetry and release monitoring at TMI. Learned pretty quick about more than a handful of ways to hide data, some of those not-bright ideas coming from the damned NRC! Hell, just randomizing the TLDs through the two readers (one utility, one NRC) taught me more than I ever wanted to know about the finer points of calibration…

                    Bottom line: Doesn't matter how fancy your equipment. It can be made to read or not read whatever you program it to read or not read. If that were not so, we would never be able to get past the 'masking' of considerable amount of spectrum. When it's 'important' to do so. In meltdowns, nothing's all that 'important'.

        • Tung Jen Tung Jen

          Tbg not dying until you're dead….. I feel it is like lining up to take a shower inAushwitz…. Keeps me going each day ….. I,m not going to go quietly!

    • We Not They Finally

      How will the economy "soldier on" as public health goes downhill? It won't/can't. Life doesn't work that way. Nor is there any way to just "sacrifice the Pacific" but "life goes on." Life isn't "going on" for numerous whole species now, and the effects are escalating. Then there is bio-accumulation and bio-magnification and escalating intergenerational genome damage.

      Life doesn't just go on.

      • The economy is just the governing function of our modern civilization. It, along with civilization as it has evolved to this point (social evolution is much faster than physical evolution) can go away and it wouldn't be the end of humanity. Things can be socially chaotic for a relatively long time (generations, centuries), huge numbers may die, but humanity will survive in family/tribal enclaves. Eventually another civilization arises and things go from there. It's happened before.

        Hypermutation is being ever more recognized in biology as a natural response to highly stressful environments. Mutation is the 'engine' of evolution. The stakes are high in those environments, and there may be more losers than winners in the quest for adaptation. But adaptations will arise, and spread.

        Maybe next time we'll do better for ourselves. Stop building civilizational power structures on the ability to oppress and mass-murder whole segments of ourselves. You never know…

      • rakingmuck

        Sometimes its good to have large following on multiple platforms. especially when something annoying comes along that ENE by itself cannot get rid of. Off topic? Not really.

  • Fuku 3 and 4 were nuclear type explosions. They were using MOX Plutonium.

    Proof enough is here

    • Angela_R

      "They were using MOX Plutonium." As I understand plutonium is formed in a normal nuclear reactor, however a MOX fuel reactor reuses previously processed plutonium, sometimes as a way of utilizing waste from nuclear weapons. MOX fuel has been in use since 1963, but did not come into commercial use until the 1980's.
      (Did I know that? No! I studied chemistry decades ago and loathed the power unleashed by the splitting of the atom and have only revisted the current practices in recent years.)

      There are many countries that use MOX fuel with plutonium, in fact I'm not sure whether there is another fissile agent that is as effective. I may be incorrect, but I thought that the odds, i.e. 235, 239 etc., indicated that their radioactive isotopes were unstable.

      • Angela_R

        correction to link
        The article explains that around 2% of the fuel is MOX.

      • harengus_acidophilus

        You should educate yourself.

        "I may be incorrect, but I thought that the odds, i.e. 235, 239 etc., indicated that their radioactive isotopes were unstable."

        This statment is a proof.
        A proof of a shill.
        Nice try …


        • Angela_R

          No, I am not a shill. I am very likely much older than you, studied chemistry a long time ago; forgetful yes. Will you please correct my statement.

          Or are you a shill?

          • harengus_acidophilus

            Sorry, but …

            …your statement shows, you didn't have any clue about nuclear.
            But you say:
            "studied chemistry a long time ago"

            "A long time ago" basic nuclear knownledge was part of chemistry (called radiochemistry), and your idea, stability of a nucleus depends on odd or even particles inside shows only one thing: there is absolutely NO knownledge about nuclear on your side.

            Something more:
            "plutonium is formed in a normal nuclear reactor"
            So normal, these reactors, aren't they?
            "a MOX fuel reactor reuses previously processed plutonium"
            You say, it's just "garbage recycling"?
            "There are many countries that use MOX"
            Classic: "Others too!"
            "I'm not sure whether there is another fissile agent that is as effective."
            Ah … "effective", sounds like an ad.


            • socref

              MOX or "mixed oxide" is UO2-Pu. The MOX fuel is fabricated in a different facility, I believe it is Rokkasho Japan. In that process Pu is blended with UO2. The feedstock for Pu could be from many sources including reactors that produce Pu from the U238 + n reaction.

            • It's not important to "have knowledge about nuclear" as you say. Being Human is enough to be interested in what is a pretty scary outcome of nuclear energy.

              Please see my post on the subject.



              -Mr. Baxter

            • Angela_R

              My statement was, as you quoted @ 7.59am "I may be incorrect, but I thought that the odds, i.e. 235, 239 etc., indicated that their radioactive isotopes were unstable."

              Perhaps if I quote re the even numbers, you may understand. "Nuclides with an even number of protons and an even number of neutrons, and located near a well-known curve in nuclear number vs. atomic mass number are more stable than others." Further details can be found here:

              Re: 'in a normal nuclear reactor.' normal/usual. Yes, I understand the sarcasm and the better reference would have been 'usual.'

              A MOX fuel reactor does use previously processed plutonium, converted as explained by socref @ 12.29pm. except that it is Uranium dioxide and Plutonium Dioxide. Location though, I am unsure of.

              I did not use the wording 'garbage recycling.'

              I try very hard to remain under control when discussing an industry I abhor and if I can, state what I believe to be the facts.

              There is a lot of reference to shills. Personally I think socref is in favour of Nuclear Energy, but I do not believe he is a shill. I have debated 'them' elsewhere and have noted that their P.R. is well versed, but twisted.

              The first lie I encountered by the Nuclear Industry was present in my first Chemistry book, wherein it stated "The Atom cannot be split."
              Well, I'm not that old, the book was.

              For years, the fact that the atom had been split was not allowed…

              • Angela_R

                continuing 3.05pm

                to be published.

                (word count must have run out.)

              • harengus_acidophilus

                Well painted stories.

                Otto Hahn fond the evidence that Uranium is fissile in 1938.
                I've got an old chemistry book from 1950, it contains a chapter about "radiochemistry". You are in your 80ies?

                Don't fool with facts.


              • harengus_acidophilus

                Interesting angle of view

                > The first lie I encountered by the
                > Nuclear Industry was present in my
                > first Chemistry book, wherein it stated
                > "The Atom cannot be split."

                In history, there was a time, mankind don't know about splitting properties of atoms. At this time, it was NO lie. Just what every sciene is: a hypothesis to explain observed phenomenas of the world. Easily to replace with a better one.
                But you say, at the same time as your chemistry book says: "The Atom cannot be split.", there was an existing "Nuclear Industry" (why capitals?). Tell me, what year?


                • Angela_R

                  The publication occurred well after the atom was split. It is an interesting bit of history that may not have occurred in all countries.

                  The book was handed to me at the beginning of the school year in 1956. However the veil had, by then been lifted, and we were told to disregard that statement. The lie was exposed.

                  Why capitals? To denote that I believe, that the instruction to include such a statement came from the not small end of the nuclear industry, but the Large.

              • Fact: In a UOX fueled reactor that has been operating for awhile, up to 1/3 of the fission events are produced by plutonium. All reactors produce plutonium, thus all reactors are 'breeders' of a sort. There is plutonium in all reactor spent fuel rods.

            • Angela_R

              the above to harengus_acidophilus

    • socref

      They were not nuclear explosions. Stop the hype. You are not qualified to make that assessment.

      • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

        Stop the hype… o really..?

        Stop all the fugging censorship and no-one would need no fugging hype's…about nothing..

        There , i just fixed all your troubles..

        • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

 the invention of cowards and weaklings…
          easy money…easy profit..easy conscience…easy this and that..
          Easy weaklings…your curtains are all about to dissapear..

          • earthsmith earthsmith

            Nice…cowards always have the most to hide, most to lose, the most paranoid. So easy to spot when reduced to defending their precious socionomic lies. The finger pointing will soon commence…that is what cowards do. How about Schlepco and co. prove to us it was not a nuclear explosion or how about just prove anything they say. That would be nice for starters.

            • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

              yes indeed earthsmith.. but that is the same as proving they lied.. thats the problem with coming clean..especially for weaklings..rinse and repeat..

        • socref

          Ok censorship works both ways here. Do you want ENE to ban me without violating any rules? That would be censorship of a different kind – keeping the discussion one sided.

          • Winterborn

            socref, you may notice here that many other posters here do their best to provide links to support their statements. Evidence as it were however dubious, allows the conversation to move forward. If you don't want to be called a shill perhaps you shouldn't make blanket statements 'from a position of authority' without proof to back it up. That is, in fact, one of methods shills use.

            • socref

              I also provide links when links are useful and unbiased. As a technical person, my links will probably be derived from technical reports, and not news articles. There is a fundamental mistrust of science journalists and many times they tend to exaggerate to stir up emotionalism.

              I never made blanket statements. Most of my statements come from a stream of thought that has been generated over decades of education, training and experience.

              I have no current allegiance to the commercial nuclear power industry. I am not paid by anyone to post my opinions.

              I am thankful and grateful to ENE to allow me to post as long as I play by the rules, we should all get along here.

              I would think the folks here would welcome someone with the education, training, and experience I have to shed some light on some issues.

              I dont know everything about nuclear, no one does. Its just too broad and complex. However what I do know I can share. I wont be dragged down into a flame war. I will be better than that.

              I know its tough for people who are anti-nuclear vociferously to accept a person with as much training and experience. I am not A Gundersen. We did go to the same school. I did not go there when he was there. But we worked on the same little reactor there. I helped make it safer by converting the core to low enriched uranium. This enabled it not to be diverted for non peaceful means.

              The fact that the reactor is still in use training people is a testament.

              • guevara3712

                if they wanted to divert your reactor for non peaceful means they would do so and there wouldn't be a dang thing you, or your safety measures could do about it.

            • socref

              Most of their links are antinuclear. So it really doesnt count if its not objective and scientific.

              Thank you.

              • artika rama

                socref How about i kindly disagree with you then ? When it suits your goals , you like to talk about science , when it doesnt you just kindly disagre? . Are you here just to iritate people ?

            • tsfw tsfw

              Socref is ruining the site, we have to weed through all of his argumentative bullshit to get to the information now. There is disputing an argument and then there is taking over. It's overkill Socref. Sure you can be a cock in the name of freedom of speech, but a cock is still a cock is still a cock…

              • flatsville

                Our new industry rep is hardly ruining the site…simply providing an "education" re: ferreting out agendas and arguing with the opposition.

                At worst, he's siphoning off some valuable time from real activists.

              • Cisco Cisco

                The more people bitch at socref, the more he is empowered and motivated to forge ahead. If you ignore this shill, no responses, his enthusiasm for his disruption will waste away. His motivation and incentive, our non-responses, will rob him of the high he gets from his subterfuge. And most importantly, his source of information will dry up.

                He's is data mining. If TPTB can discover all the real reporting and resulting accurate discussions of what thought leaders are saying, they can develop all the opposing viewpoints readying their propaganda for the next onslaught of revelations to come.

                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Socref will cry like a baby when he learns/discovers the real truth. 🙁

                  Mankind can not fix what they have done/damaged here on Planet Earth with using and promoting this Nuclear Technology! 🙁

                  The numbers do not lie.. and yes it's all very sad. 🙁

                • flatsville

                  Thought leaders? I am afraid you flatter some people here a bit too much.

                  >>>…they can develop all the opposing viewpoints readying their propaganda for the next onslaught of revelations to come.<<<

                  They've already done that. I do that when prepping cases. Socrates does that…etc…

                  He could stay largely silent and accomplish the same thing.

                  If you're that frightened of what he might learn, just suggest Admin shut down the entire site.

                  But, you're easily scared if IRC.


                  good to see, Cisco, someone gets the game. Notice, I haven't bothered responding to any of his posts. Not that they're irrelevant. On the contrary, his responses are, for the most part, quite informative. But what I've noticed is his condescending attitude towards those who oppose nuclear power technologies. While he plays a good game against those who'd challenge his position, his main strategy is to bog the challenger down, with minutia. Notice how often he'll advise the researching of information that's predominantly sourced through studies that were produced by the very people that got us here! It's an effective strategy that's only intended to dull the blade any-and-every argument.

                  As far as I'm concerned, I no longer feel safe to freely partake of nature's bounty. Assurances from sweet-talking reps of the nuclear industry will not change my sense of insecurity about this technology. I once trusted these 'learned' people to know what wasn't safe industry practice. They've violated that trust at every opportunity, treating all of us like naive children; all the while kicking drums of radioactive waste into the ocean and laughing all the way to the bank.

                  The likes of socref are no different than purveyors of child pornography. I'd have had more patience with his routine, had he used "sophistry" as his online moniker. And in keeping with his disarming sophistry…

                  "Thank you"

                • tsfw tsfw

                  You are very right Cisco- he isn't worth it.

                  • Cisco Cisco

                    Thanks tsfw, but there's so much more to it than "it isn't worth it". The military industrial complex, supporting NGO's like the UN, IAEC, WHO, UNSCEAR, and dozens others, have written and reported a false history of nuclear development. They have effectively suppressed proven, documented research from their inception and have virtually rewritten the history of "nuclear" that promotes nuclear proliferation as an acceptable risk.

                    They stand by their falsely concocted "official" documents and research. Who's to question? Theses documents are published by the highest standing NGO's in the world. To the general public as well as the MSM, who readily accept their distortions amd misinformation, the nucleocrats' dogma becomes palatable. It's easier that way (don't have to think or question the obvious), and they believe safer, too. Nobody in the MSM loses their job for going along with the "official" dissemination of the nuclear cabal's predictions and prognostications.

                    A theory:
                    Shills like socref are testing some of our responses to his pat assertions, trying to identify good objections that the nucleocrats can counter with, or to. Engaging this pathetic soul only helps in his data mining/research. These folks are deep, and they are working the turf nearly everywhere you turn. continued…

                    • Cisco Cisco

                      If there's a story about a possible/probable radiation connected event, they will find 3 to 5 shill scientists /universities, etc. to publish a contradictory position, frequently citing studies done by the "official" NGO's. i.e. WHO concludes from their research on Chernobyl, the "accident" as they refer to it, only caused 4000 or 8000 deaths. And, there are document after document these criminals have published negating the real science and epidemiology.

                      Real science and consequences: Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment (a road map for Fukushima only 1000 times worse), research and works by Chris Busby, Enerst J. Sternglass, Helen Caldicott, and numerous others.

                      Hell, the IAEC's own documents lists all the various cancers contracted from radiation. They knew, they know, but they will never let the GP know. That's ENENEW's charge. Don't provide socref with the benefit of your response.

                  • Cisco Cisco

                    Thanks tsfw, but there's so much more to it than "it isn't worth it". The military industrial complex, supporting NGO's like the UN, IAEC, WHO, UNSCEAR, and dozens others, have written and reported a false history of nuclear development. They have effectively suppressed proven, documented research from their inception and have virtually rewritten the history of "nuclear" that promotes nuclear proliferation as an acceptable risk.

                    They stand by their falsely concocted "official" documents and research. Who's to question? These documents are published by the highest standing NGO's in the world. To the general public as well as the MSM, who readily accept their distortions amd misinformation, the nucleocrats' dogma becomes palatable. It's easier that way (don't have to think or question the obvious), and they believe safer, too. Nobody in the MSM loses their job for going along with the "official" dissemination of the nuclear cabal's predictions and prognostications.

                    A theory:
                    Shills like socref are testing some of our responses to his pat assertions, trying to identify good objections that the nucleocrats can counter with, or to. Engaging this pathetic soul only helps in his data mining/research. These folks are deep, and they are working the turf nearly everywhere you turn. continued…

                    • Cisco Cisco

                      If there's a story about a possible/probable radiation connected event, they will find 3 to 5 shill scientists /universities, etc. to publish a contradictory position, frequently citing studies done by the "official" NGO's. i.e. WHO concludes from their research on Chernobyl, the "accident" as they refer to it, only caused 4000 or 8000 deaths. And, there is document after document these criminals have published negating the real science and epidemiology.

                      Real science and consequences: Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment (a road map for Fukushima only 1000 times worse), research and works by Chris Busby, Enerst J. Sternglass, Helen Caldicott, and numerous others.

                      Hell, the IAEC's own documents lists all the various cancers contracted from radiation. They knew, they know, but they will never let the GP know. That's ENENEW's charge. Don't provide socref with the benefit of your response.

                • TooExpensiveToMatter

                  If I had to guess, I'd say he is looking for "evidence" of "conspiracy ideation".

                  There is a psychologist in Australia (Lewandowsky) who has done this very thing with regard to the climate change issue.

                  The conclusions he drew from his "research" (surveys) on climate change related blogs about supposed correlation between climate change skepticism and "conspiracy ideation" were utter garbage.

                  The small number of (self-selected) respondents and lack of verification that the responses were not just made up rendered the results worthless, but that didn't stop people from quoting his results as an indication that anyone who has questions about climate change likely also believes NASA faked the moon landing.

                  The two issues, climate change and Fukushima are obviously closely related because some people (Barry Brook, for example, who was quoting MIT wingding Josef Oehmen at the very beginning of the Fukushima disaster on how little radiation would be released) are pushing nuclear power as a solution to the CO2 problem and Fukushima is the herd of elephants standing in the reactor control room impeding their progress.

                  And of course, on the Fukushima issue, such "research" might be used to dismiss anyone who questions nuclear power as a "conspiracy nut".

                  For what it's worth, I happen to accept the scientific consensus on climate change but when I see these kind of crap "studies" being done under the guise of "science" it makes my skin crawl.

              • TooExpensiveToMatter

                In a nutshell, "socref" is doing little more than making the "argument from authority" with all his BS about being "one of the world's leading authorities on nuclear criticality accidents" and claims that "he would have got the call to help" if one (or more) reactors at Fukushima had undergone prompt criticality.

                Maybe so and maybe not, but it makes no difference either way.

                Argument from authority is BS and this fellow's shovel seems to be as big as his ego.

                He claims that he is "not here to argue, just to do research", but that claim rings very hollow.

                Well, legitimate researchers generally try to <i>minimize</i> their own impact on the subject of their research.

                Unless perhaps that research involves studying the response of their research subjects to prodding and poking by the researcher (poking monkeys in a cage?)

                While the latter sounds absolutely fascinating, I think I'll pass on reading the paper when it is published in the "Journal of Bogus Studies".

                I replied to him a couple times to mock his "I didn't get the call" nonsense and point how vacuous it was.

                But I intend to ignore him from here on in.

          • harengus_acidophilus

            It's like math

            "keeping the discussion one sided"
            I don't need an equal balance between lie and truth.
            I'd prefer one side: the truth!

            But you need always a little bit of lie – just for taste?


      • harengus_acidophilus

        Show your diploma!

        "You are not qualified to make that assessment."

        Last line of defense?


  • We Not They Finally

    A little bizarre here. Ms. Haar announces just moths after 3/11 that "The Answer is Clear: Nuclear Power is Safe." and now she is talking abut complete meltdown? Is this a backtrack? I don't see any apology or retraction.

    Why don't people just say, I'm supposed to be an expert, but I actually don't know what the crap I am talking about?

    • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

      @wntf… Maybe she feels true love (of nukes) means you never have to say you're sorry.

      Sorry,I just had to make a joke because I get so sick of these pro-nuke people who don't know what they are talking about.

    • socref

      Lets look at the facts of the matter. What are the plausible mechanisms for steam? Where is the ground zero? When did this phenomena of steam first occur? Who are the most knowledgable parties? Why is it continuing? How can the communication gap be resolved? By using the WWWWH method, the focus should not be on speculation but what is actually going on. I know its frustrating not being there or being told explicit information, but there is a reason for everything and conspiracy theories shouldnt be the reason. Thanks.

      • KidIcarus KidIcarus

        Hi, nuke shill. Nice to meet you.

        So, what's YOUR story?

        Tell us all about how you're connected to the nuke industry!

        Because, unlike your typical forums, we here are pretty sharp.

        So, enlighten us, shill. What's your connection to the nuke industry?

        Do tell….

        (Forecast: radio silence from "socref")

        • socref

          Im just a person with an interest in the truth like you. Instead of waving my hands and saying the sky is falling I would like to use the news stories aggregated here for real research and study. I have a doctorate in nuclear science and engineering, and am one of the world's leading authorities on nuclear criticality accidents, its mechanisms, and the causes. I have several US patents in emergency response and safety. I have over 30 years experience and 10 years in specific nuclear accident analysis and emergency response. I am not employed in the commerical nuclear industry yet have a deep respect for the Fukushima 50.

          I think ENE should be open to all people who want to find the truth. I have evaluated many technical papers that people link here and some are good and some are just out there. There has to be a filter without the anti or pro nuclear bias.

          So in that respect, I am agnostic to the politics of nuclear and just want to evaluate things independently.

          The first thing I evaluated was the claim of Fukushima 3 nuclear explosion as posed by stocks.

          This claim has not been validated by the nuclear forensics. So one of "your own" has pretty much put up a show based on information received by Gunderson, who is no more an expert in criticality than the generalist nuclear engineer.

          I know its dishearting to have me here, but if you truely value independence, then here I am.

          I am not a shill, I am not a paid poster. I am my own voice, of reason.

          • KidIcarus KidIcarus

            You're dodging the question, shill.

            What's your connection to the nuke industry, shill?

            What's your profession, shill?

            Everyone here answers questions about themselves pretty freely. We have to know backgrounds in order to establish bias. The entire study of nuclear science has been corrupted by big money.

            So I'll ask you again, shill, what's your connection to the nuke industry?

            • KidIcarus KidIcarus

              *Current connection to the nuke industry

              • socref

                What is your profession? What is your education level. What drives your passions and life to say "today life is worth living". I told you mine, so be fair and share. Thanks.

                • socref

                  expect radio silence from KidIcarus – flying too close to the sun.

                  • KidIcarus KidIcarus

                    I am in my mid-30s. No kids yet, but two nephews and nieces I love more than anything – 3 and 5. I live in California. Bachelors degree, Communications (cue comm major jokes). I work in the education field.

                    Not much formal scientific training beyond college courses, but a sharp enough mind. I spent all my life until about a year ago staunchly pro-nuclear, with plenty of facts to win arguments.

                    Then, with Edward Snowden's disclosures, I became smacked in the face with the reality that our government actively lies to us, as a matter of course (with the "best of intentions" – they're taking care of us, right? We don't need to be bothered with those troubling facts. In fact we don't deserve it.)

                    That shattered my paradigm. I loved Obama and was having to do increasing cognitive gymnastics to be okay with his anti-privacy violations.

                    Then I came across Hatrick Penry's site. His excellent work on the FOIA-obtained docs from the NRC were enough to convince me that they have been working actively since Day 1 to conceal things about Fukushima – BIG things. I'd suggest you read it, if you weren't a shill.

                    Today, I'm watching the animals around me lessen and die. I'm seeing seagulls living in my town for the first time in 35 years, in the foothills of the Sierras – nowhere near the ocean.

                    I'm watching my family get a little more sick, a little more often.

                    I've watched three of my mother in law's dogs die of heart failure in the last six months.

                    • KidIcarus KidIcarus

                      I'm watching the world change, because arrogant people in power think that they can CONTROL THE OUTCOME and KEEP THE PLATES SPINNING.

                      Just like Walter White of Breaking Bad thought.

                      I am also a recovering pill addict – and try to live every day in truth at a personal level.

                      Perhaps that is why I react so strongly to people lying. Because I did nothing but lie for a long time.

                    • artika rama

                      This is beginning to look more and more like a dating site 🙂
                      Its a lame joke , i know 🙂

                    • socref

                      So you have a bachelors in communications (as soon will my daughter) and I have a doctorate in nuclear engineering and science. This is the wide chasm of understanding. I dont know how much math and science you have taken. As a communications major then you understand that communicating accurately and fairly is the cornerstone of progress. I was trained to be objective and collect facts and then form hypotheses and test those hypotheses with experiments that validate those hypotheses.

                      I see nothing I have written here that is counter to that maxim.

                    • Hatrick Penry really nailed the thing with those FOIAs…should be required Fukushima reading by all. Those docs and transcripts are just mind-blowing. They KNEW within hours, everything that was happening and how bad it was. All else we've been told by Nuke Power and govt has been mixed lies.

                      Fukushima Research blog on articles and videos since 3-11-11

            • socref

              I told you I have no connection to the commercial nuclear industry.

              My profession – I am an engineer, author, teacher and inventor. I am also a soccer referee by avocation having officated over 2000 games in my career. hence my name.

              Once again, I have no connection to the commercial nuclear industry. I am not employed by any nuclear company that derives a profit. I am in fact a piece of furniture to any company. I have a mortgage, and put kids through college, just like many here. I have family members that have had cancer. I put myself through school working blue collar jobs. All 9 years of it. Ive been fired, laid off, and downsized. But for the most part, Im still making a living doing what I do best. My beloved dog of 14 years died last year. I have been married a long time to my grad school sweetheart. So I understand committment to someone and something.

              Ok there. Anything else?

              • (not to butt it, since haven't been keeping up with this convo, but just curious, do any of the characteristics at this link fit you, socref? a friend of mine was once in the biz of phone sex…she had bios out the you know what.. )

              • KidIcarus KidIcarus

                Thanks for sharing, socref. I appreciate your honest, candid, and very RELATABLE answers. Just one more question.

                Where did you get your "background story" from? Was it created in-house or was it more of a cut & paste job?

              • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                He's probably Rod Adams.

                • irhologram

                  OR maybe, Anne, he was indoctrinated by his education in the nuclear field…a right of passage you ran up against when you took your nuclear course (and got an A)… As you related to us, no matter how much data and proof from extensive, multiple research entities you presented that totally trash the idea of nuclear safety on all fronts, you were hooted down by what were obviously biased, altered, incomplete, or purposefully inaccurate data used for misdirection. You also encountered the viciousness of this guard-dog, the educational system, in purging critical thinkers from entering the gateway into the nuclear industry. Chinks in their wall of thought are met with near hysteria, because when this wall falls, as it most certainly will, there is nothing to shield them from the depressing radioactive truth, that their defensive posture is killing/has killed earth, and they are culpable. I feel sad for scoref, but I don't believe he is a shill.

                  • socref

                    I was 17 when I did a report on siting nuclear plants near cities was hazardous. I cited the old Bodega Bay project close to San Francisco. That got me interested in looking at nuclear technology and nuclear issues. I did take the ASVAB and ace the nuclear enlisted test in high school, but I decided to go to university. I never served in the military, even though I believe in its purpose. The US Navy has a very large nuclear component.

                    There was never any "indoctrination". I was interested in a subject matter, there were people there to teach it, there were mentors along the way in my career, and for that I am grateful. My life has had its ups and downs just like many here.

                    Im not here to debate hard core antinuclear activists. Im here to take a look at Fukushima information and digest and process it for my independent project.

                    When my project is done, there will be a definite end to my presence here.

                    So you need not panic, you can have your virtual Kumbaya without me.

                    Life will go on.

                    • irhologram

                      Your. PROJECT, socref? We are your PROJECT???!! Well, that explains a lot.

                      I saw an interesting comment from a blog 3 years ago, by a gentleman claiming to be a government psychiatrist, employed to analyze public reaction and tolerance as feedback regarding specific events, as well as the overall mass consciousness. He said he was revealing himself at that point for the purpose of assessing reaction to being studied. That's an interesting project.

                      What's your project?

                • socref

                  I am not Rod Adams or anyone that has a pronuclear blog. I do read their blogs and taken some of the links from there for my research.

                • I dont think Rod is that smart, he is a real Rod

              • harengus_acidophilus

                This explains a lot

                "a soccer referee"

                Soccer. Poor mens pleasure.
                Opium for the masses.

                And you are proud of it?


                • socref

                  "Soccer is the most exhausting human activity"

                  • artika rama

                    lol ,, there we go again ,, yeah "soccer is the most exhausting human activity "beep . "There are 15243 soccer clubs in the northern hemisphere "beep beep . "Most soccer players spend 2000 to 2500 calories during a game of soccer which will last aproximately 90 minutes ".
                    And then no grammar mistakes even :))
                    Why do i feel like talking to a robot ,, :))

                  • Gasser Gasser

                    Motocross racing put's pansy Soccer ball chasing in last place for endurance, ask me how I know that.

                    Now watch folks the Shill Bot machine will puke out a socref motocross story.

            • HoTaters HoTaters

              Kidlcarus, why don't you try hearing him out? And then if you disagree, explain why. And post some links in support of your position.

              The "shill, shill, shill" statements have reached the level of screaming over the past week. Could we all please just take it down a notch?

              Agree to disagree? But at least allow discussion? If we can't have that, we all walk in lockstep, which IMO is stupid and just what the brainwashed do ….

          • vicky13 vicky13

            HI socref,,

            I for one am glad you are posting here. What we really need are people with your expertise to help us understand to get to the TRUTH.

            Sorry you lost your dog. I just went through the first year anniversary of my beloved Senegal Parrot who is my avatar here. Time hasn't helped yet, I suspect it will be many years before I can think of her without grief. Lost many of my animal brothers and sisters over the years but my Sennie, has been the hardest to bear.


            • charlie3

              vicky, that's a carefully-concocted resume meant to elicit the response it did in you.

              • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                socref didn't give his name. It doesn't matter if his resume is fantasy or not. His statements over and over again are not the truth, but propaganda for the nuclear industry. His statement that he is neutral is the classic rubric of mind control techniques.

              • vicky13 vicky13

                HI charlie3,,

                No I just want to hear all sides to the story. I want to learn as much as I can and have a open mind, and just want to get to the truth.

                So just willing to listen to everybody and let them voice their opinions. Because for me knowledge is power and you need to know both sides to every story.

                I'm a retired network engineer/admin from the CDN Fed Gov. My expertise was in computer business systems, network infra, server farms, etc.

                Now I am a full time BIKER Lady., with my 2 Harleys, and I don't know anything about nuclear science, so yup I do want to hear what socref says,, just like I do for everybody and everything else here.

                Bottom line this is the first time in the history of this tiny planet that 3 full blown nuclear meltdowns has happened, and is still happening, so I figure ANY information is better than NO info. Even the scientists don't really know what is going on.

                The whole point is we ARE TALKING about it, and as a unified group we all benefit from ALL sides of it.

                • Actually Vicky, you do not benefit from lies and propaganda

                  he is a troll, hands down.

                • Gasser Gasser

                  @ Vicky, being retired, I'm also a full time rider and I see socref like a skinny college guy in a Hell's Angel's biker bar drinking a Pepsie trying to incessantly Ego bullshit bench race convince the bad boys to weld (not bolt) in a 50cc moped motor in a Wide Glide bagger full of beer's and go race a nitro fueled twin turbo Harley drag bike and win…I don't think he would make it out of the parking lot seeing out of both eyes…just Plutonium knowin'

                  • Gasser Gasser

                    So folk's here's the back drop scene, socref's responses are so quickly posted back, there is a battery of Shills monitoring and moderating back to support him/her for a bullshit comeback to every negative response to his bullshit output…he’s not a faster than speeding thought’s Superman.

                  • socref

                    Im in my 50s. Contrary to your description, I am 6-3, 240 lbs. So I'm hardly a skinny guy. I wish I were 210 lbs.

                    • artika rama

                      socref I am not correlating stochastic effects with acute determinitic effects . if you are talking to me .
                      Deterministics effects are neglibile compared to stochastic effects in these kinds of accidents .
                      The problem is to prove it . There are no tests to prove that a certain cancer patient got the disease from a certain isotope coming from a certain nuke factory . That s why you dont see the numbers. Nothing to do with the mathematics.

                    • artika rama

                      on one hand you claim to be so knowledgable , and then on the other it seems your logic is just misplaced , how can anyone be so knowledgable and has a faulty way of thinking is a bit shocking to me (us) . So you can imagine why we think there is a PR firm behind it .

                    • Gasser Gasser

                      @ socref>Dark humor to expose dark blind Shill0matics….Cool scoref's (note the plural) I'm a 6-4, 241 lb bad ass mofo with tattooed poppy arms and a kick your ass biker attitude, and in reality, I see you puke Shill's as lung cancer cigarette inhaling donut scarfing obese 450 lb Diabetic sick puppy's working for the Nuclear man (think hired Yakuza homeless) at anything for money to glum on to the next pack of unfiltered Camels and a McDonnell's super size, toss in a gram of coke for the late night bullshit shift…signed up for Obama care yet?…Just troll jousting'

                  • vicky13 vicky13

                    Hiya Gasser!

                    Yeah we are full time BIKER BUMS,, hehe I worked a 38 year career to do just that, LOL!

                    Nothing more fun than a Biker Bar!!

                    When I grow up I wanna be a harley biker full time I said.

                    Retired at 55,, whoohoo!! FREEDOM 55 Hell yaaa!!

                    LOL thinking about drag races,, check this out,, LOL

                    Hildo´s Harley vs Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade


                    something to be said about good ol' RAT Bike, Shovelhead Harley Davidsons!!!

                    LOL bolt a 50CC moped motor to a WideGlide,, I laughed!!!

            • socref

              Sorry for your loss. Pets are important companions and sometimes we forget that they are the only creatures that love us more than they love themselves.

              Anyway, there are some truths and then there are embellishments.

              I know the reactors melted down. I had known this from day 1. A lot of people dont realize that during situations like this its hard to get information that is evolving. So we try our bets.

              The other thing is the civility. I am very surprised that people that want us to believe they show compassion for the people of Fukushima, as would I show, do not show any type of consideration for those that would threaten their belief system. I have been the subject of a very mean spirited campaign to make me go away or get banned. I would hope that admin understands that I am not here to cause trouble.

              I made some comments about stocks own personal "nuke pro" web page and some technical inaccuracies there.

              My contention is that there is just no forensic evidence to corroborate the theory of a prompt criticality in Unit 3.

              Its ok to have a theory, but it must be tested. On his site he writes "we dont have time for the scientific method"

              Well the scientific method is used to get to the TRUTH

              If people want to put forth speculation that is one thing. But if they really want to see where that goes, then lets put it to the test.

              I for one would like to see some sort of validation on some of the claims put forth here.


          • harengus_acidophilus

            Was it expensive?

            "I have a doctorate in nuclear science and engineering,"
            But you say Krypton is a halogen.
            Ouch! Wrong column, take a second look, just next column on the right – yeah! That's it! You've found the noble gases.
            Picking up the headline of the wrong column in the periodic table of elements? A "doctorate in nuclear science and engineering"?
            No – that's a beginners error.

            GAME OVER


      • I have a new post on the subject. I think you may find it interesting to see this from another perspective.


        -Mr. Baxter

  • Mack Mack

    Even without a meltdown, they've known how dangerous nuclear radiation can be to humans and the environment.

    Check these out and notice the dates —>

    Alvin M. Weinberg, tells the Senate's Special Committee on Atomic Energy that "Atomic power can cure as well as kill. It can fertilize and enrich a region as well as devastate it. It can widen man's horizons as well as force him back into the cave."

    “Former AEC official, John C. Bugher, declares at an American Public Health Association meeting that an atomic power program would present a much greater health threat than nuclear weapons, due to large quantities of radioactive chemicals emitted into the environment during power generation.”

    “Karl Z. Morgan in testimony before a Congressional subcommittee states that there is "no safe level of exposure" to radiation.”

    “Linus Pauling and Andrei Sakarov separately proclaim that low-level fallout from atomic tests was contaminating the food supply and would harm the immune system of consumers.”

    “Arthur D. Bloom publishes paper "Cytogenetic Effects of Low-Dose Internal and External Radiations," which concludes that all exposure to high-energy ionizing radiation, even at low doses, produces chromosomal and genetic damage and that this damage may well be deleterious to the host.”

    • Mack Mack

      “Jay M. Gould and Benjamin A. Goldman publish the first edition of a book entitled Deadly Deceit, Low-Level Radiation, High-Level Cover-up. The theme of the book focuses of the dangers of low levels of radiation to human populations, the need to limit exposures whenever possible and the need for government to share information on health effects and exposure information with the public.”

      “Another book, entitled Cancer From Low-Dose Exposure: An Independent Analysis, authored by John W. Gofman, is published. This book reviews human and physical evidence showing that cancer can be caused by the lowest conceivable doses and dose rates of ionizing radiation. The author rebuts claims that very low doses or dose rates of radiation are safe.”

      “The Health Physics Society makes principal recommendations about radiation safety standards for the public that "…the sum of effective dose(s) to individual members of the public from exposure to controllable sources with the exception of occupational exposure, accidental releases, and indoor radon, normally should be limited to 1 mSv (100 mrem) in any year.”


    • socref

      Its ok to list the chronology of nuclear technology. Note you missed the one in 1969 when Rickover and Milt Shaw told Weinberg to pound sand on the MSR, which is a meltdown proof reactor. So if the commercial nuclear industry was derived from the MSR and thorium based, there would be no meltdowns, no proliferation, and no waste products, since the MSR would burn plutonium and minor actinides insitu.

      Strange how history shows us the way, but we wont go there.

      So now where?

      The genie is out of the bottle and there is no putting him back.

      The best we can hope for is that nuclear technology evolves just as the Wright Brothers invention evolved, and Henry Ford's invention evolved.

      We can take the lessons learned and move on, or we can take our beer and cry in it. Your choice?

      Im not here to argue, just to do research and I find the links helpful to my research.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        Rickover was against the commercial use of nuclear energy.

        It depends on which genie you are talking about. 1) The information about the health risks and damage to the human genome from all levels of radiation exposure is proven and needs to be considered to close down all nuclear technology. 2) The exorbitant cost and the fascist political structure created by the nuclear industry needs to be considered to close down all nuclear technology.

        We need to follow the genie for good, not the genie for evil.

        • socref

          When we first study nuclear science we are taught extensively of the risks of radiation to the human genome from a biological point of view. Radiation does break double strand DNA among other things that do the same thing. There are chemicals that attach to DNA and biotoxins that mutate DNA. There are many things about the human body that are much different than the dropsila fruit fly or rat. In fact the real early studies of radiation effects involved hundreds of thousands of rats and mice.

          We follow the genie for good because the promise of a planet where all have plentiful energy is the hope for the future.

          The one factor that separates disease, famine, and standard of living and human health is electrification.

          If everyone in the world had their electric energy needs met, there would be no starvation, no disease, less crime and war, and more fulfillment.

          Electrification is what differentiates the First World from the rest of the world.

          And the worlds population is exploding exponentially. Its not reducing. So how do you propose to electrify the world, feed the world, keep disease from the world, power and empower the world?

          Surely there has to be a way. Nature has showed us its awesomeness and its power. There was more power in the tsunami than 1000 Hiroshimas.

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            Nuclear energy and weapons totally destroys all air, land, and water. Nuclear energy is heating up the planet and melting all the ice at the poles which cause all the oceans to rise and flood out all the nuclear reactors next to water sources and cause all these nuclear reactors to meltdown.

            • socref

              We differ on these statements.

            • zogerke zogerke

              The political structures that protect nuclear power also lean towards reactionary political control, information siloing..thats keeping secrets….and militarization of populace….that means that the area around a nuke is super controlled by police …why? Because it creates a by product that is in high demand…..the technology itself is in my opinion corrosive to democratic process and society……plus there is good economic reasons for powers that be to hide accidents and health info….to protect the nuke industry and maintain control around the nuke plant…maintain societal support for those who work inside….it is corrosive and life killing even tho it has lined the pockets well enough for those who work in nuclear generation and military development.

              • zogerke zogerke

                To argue about low and high level radiation health results….to microdelve into mechanics of dna immune system repair…is obfuscating…hides the truth thru minutia…little details that sound smart….while ignoring incredibly well established and proven info that radiation is a carcinogen with a linear dose response relationship….the more exposed, the more damage…the more radiation, the more cancer, period…..the damaging effects are synergystic …mixed up and added together …radiation exposure mixed up with other immune system assaults, mixes up with chemical exposures that damage the immune system and erode the body's ability to heal itself…. We cannot afford nuclear power. The price is too high. It is very likely statistically that a good proportion of american humans ..and others…will end up with damaged life spans and damaged immune functions due to exposures. Anything else is really bullshit. We can disagree, but in my opinion, with my personal thirty five years experience as a n occupational and environmental safety professional, which is what i do for a living, i think nuclear power is and does cause cancer nd immune system human illness and it will only get worse now because of fukushima.

            • scottyji scottyji

              Ann that's not completely true. The burning of fossil fuels and other CO2 emissions are contributing more to global warming and polar ice melt than Fuku or any other nuke disaster. C'mon…

          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            Surely/certainly not with Nuclear Technology! 🙁

            You better get to work and shut this Nuclear crap down and then go look for/discover your electrification invention somewhere else.

            Your now cooking your own planet! 🙁

            • socref

              Try and be rational and reasonable. I am very much interested in LENR and its potential. It will be quite some time before there is a home "Mr Fusion" reactor.

              • KidIcarus KidIcarus

                Oh, lookee here: Spain's top source of energy production in 2013 was wind.


                Guess we don't need nuclear, shill.

                You claimed elsewhere that we "can't put the genie back in the bottle".

                I think I heard the same exact phrase in the FAIR and BALANCED "Pandora's Promise" doc on CNN.

                You shills are nothing if not consistent in your bullshit.

                Guess what, shill? We CAN and we WILL put the genie back in the bottle – or we will face extinction.

                Get it?

                Germany shut all their reactors down. Seemed to work okay.

                Try to be reasonable and rational. We don't need nuclear power, and the risks, AS EVIDENCED AT TMI, CHERNOBYL, AND FUKU, are too great.

                • socref

                  you havent answered my questions above. What is your background and education? Fair is fair.

                  • KidIcarus KidIcarus

                    Replied above, socref shill.

                  • zogerke zogerke

                    Masters industrial hygiene. Board certified safety compliance specialist. 35 years working for human safety with a focus on industrial processes and toxins. And, always learning, lifelong process.

                  • hbjon hbjon

                    Socref, your question to KidIcarus had been answered satisfactorily. The "What is your background and education", card used just proves your desperation to stifle dissenting opinion.

                    You seem to want to produce a lot of conflicting information to some fairly sound and reasonable ideas posted in this great forum of knowledge.

                    We saw with our own eyes the magnitude of the explosions in Units 1 and 3. The aftermath of Unit 4 suggests a similar yield explosion. Why do you believe it's such a stretch to assume it was of the "nuclear" variety?

                    We are all human and have a keen sense of curiosity here on Enenews.

                  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                    What matters is what is the background and education of the scientists whose works and articles are being cited. And what matters are the actual issues. socref ignores many comments and when he asks for someone's background it is basically an ad hominen attack, not based on the actual issues.

                • bo bo

                  Germany actually was able to reduce CO2 footprint after shutting down nuclear power, and still remained an exporter of electricity (they had a surplus) while growing in GDP as well. All through wind and solar. (Thanks anne for this article a while back)


                  • bo bo

                    The argument 'nuclear power is necessarly evil to reduce CO2 and maintain the electricity needed for our lifestyle' is a big lie that has been sold to us by the nuclear industry.

                    Nuclear power plants are simply factories that produce nuclear bombs, does not help at all in curbing CO2, major contributor to the destruction of the ozone layer, pollutes the environment even when operating 'normally' and destroys not just our 'lifestyles' but destroys life on this planet.

                  • bo bo

                    From washington'sblog:

                    'Germany reduced its carbon emissions in 2011 by 2.1 percent despite the nuclear phaseout. The cut in greenhouse gases was mainly reached due to an accelerated transition to renewable energies and a warm winter. In addition, the EU emissions trading system caps all emissions from the power sector.While eight nuclear power plants were shut down, solar power output increased by 60 percent. By the end of 2011, renewable energies provided more than 20 percent of overall electricity.'

                  • bo bo

                    Also from article
                    'Even after shutting its eight oldest nuclear power plants, Germany is still a net exporter of electricity. In 2011, Germany exported 6 TWh more than it imported. Additionally, German electricity exports to Europe’s nuclear power house France increased throughout 2011.'

                    As France continues to bleed radiation and destroy its environment, they still had to IMPORT electricity from Germany, who switched to solar. Germany was more than happy to sell off their surplus. Ha.

                • vicky13 vicky13

                  Germany is doing great with their solar initiative. I think that is the model the world should be following. GeoThermal is also the way to go.

                  I don't like wind farms,, too many bird kills.

              • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                LENR is not cold and is nuclear:

                LENR is Not "Cold Fusion" – A Crucial Distinction

                • socref

                  LENR is not cold fusion. Correct. The link is accurate. I use it in my research. Thanks.

                  • harengus_acidophilus

                    Apropos fusion

                    Let us dream about theoretical clean fusion,
                    with direct conversion to electricity,
                    no need of boiling water, no nasty nuclides.
                    You will have all the energy you need.
                    But … there ist the second law of thermodynamics.
                    About entropy … all this energy will convert to heat.
                    Since billions of years, earth recieves a certain quantum of energy from the sun on the dayside and radiate energy (as infrared radiation) away on the nightside.

                    What about your additional produced heat?
                    Will it go away? All of it?
                    Can you proove this with NUMBERS?

                    You can't fool nature.


              • norbu norbu

                socref shill, We will never except nuclear power ever. No home fusion nothing. Time for you to crawl back into your nuclear hole. No More Nukes!

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            Solar energy technology today alone can supply 4 times all the world's present total energy needs.

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            Even business owners know that nuclear energy is too expensive. There are no investors for the reprocessing plant that was being built at Savannah River.

          • artika rama

            socref Your text is full of falacies .
            You are implying that human cells being different than mice and fly cells would not be effected by radiation as much ,, THAT IS JUST WRONG ,,
            You are trying to justify putting radioactive poisons into envrionment by giving examples of the chemical poisons = Two wrongs doesnt make a right ,,
            You are implying that nuclear energy is the ONLY way we can electrify the world ,,, But it is NOT
            You are using populattion growth as an excuse to use nuclear energy = That is NOT the solution ,
            etc etc etc
            Your logic , your methododlogy is wrong .
            We could have long discussions about each and every of those statements you made BUT i have the impression that no matter how long one would discuss , no matter how good the evidence would be , there is no way ,,anyone can convince you of anything other than what you know .
            Am I wrong ?

          • harengus_acidophilus


            "There are many things about the human body that are much different than the dropsila fruit fly or rat."

            DNA is DNA, the difference exists on the upper stages, but radioactivity acts on DNA level.

            By the edge of a hair, but you can say "no lie"!
            So funny, maybye I laugh tomorrow …



          • guevara3712

            sometimes people are too educated to see what is right in front of them. the sun is clearly the power source for the earth.(oh noooo, anything but that!!!!!sing the powers that be) electrification is also a primary means of keeping people in SLAVERY, dependent on systems outside of their own ''power'' for energy. personal power plants have been viable for a long time. explain to me why there are people like you everywhere, but you can't buy an ethanol generator on the internet? give us a break, maybe not everyone, but a lot of us are aware of what's going on and why, and are not confused by an obfuscation like ''we have to have energy and you have to get it from us'' quite frankly a lot of us are about prepared to live off of firewood and oil lamps rather than put up with MURDEROUS, power structures based on invisible enslavement. and how about state the name of the non-profit you are employed by, you don't fool me a bit. or will they let you tell?

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          …It is reported in John May's Nuclear Age that "Rickover's daughter-in-law, Jane Rickover, swore an affidavit to say that he told her he had used his personal influence with President Jimmy Carter to suppress the most alarming aspects of the Presidential Commission report into the Three Mile Island accident and, instead, release it in watered-down form. The report, if published in its entirety, continued Rickover, would have destroyed America's civilian nuclear power industry, `because the accident at Three Mile Island was infinitely more dangerous than was ever made public.' Carter had served in the Navy under Rickover." (page 228, published by Greenpeace, through Pantheon Books in 1989)…”

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          Rickover quote:
          • “I'll be philosophical. Until about two billion years ago, it was impossible to have any life on earth; that is, there was so much radiation on earth you couldn't have any life — fish or anything. Gradually, about two billion years ago, the amount of radiation on this planet—and probably in the entire system—reduced and made it possible for some form of life to begin… Now when we go back to using nuclear power, we are creating something which nature tried to destroy to make life possible… Every time you produce radiation, you produce something that has a certain half-life, in some cases for billions of years. I think the human race is going to wreck itself, and it is important that we get control of this horrible force and try to eliminate it… I do not believe that nuclear power is worth it if it creates radiation. Then you might ask me why do I have nuclear powered ships. That is a necessary evil. I would sink them all. Have I given you an answer to your question? “
          o On the hazards of nuclear power. Testimony to Congress (28 January 1982); published in Economics of Defense Policy: Hearing before the Joint Economic Committee, Congress of the United States, 97th Cong., 2nd sess., Pt. 1 (1982)

      • Ah the false argument of learned helplessness….the genie is out of the bottle….and there is nothing you can do….

        But there is, we can kill nuke, and we shall.

      • jcfougere jcfougere

        If you're here to do research, why don't you just observe and record instead of adding your input to EVERY single topic and discussion thread?

        You've been labeled, accurately, and now all you're doing is flooding the threads and distracting users.

        If you aren't ANTI-nuclear, this is the wrong website for you. Why do you insist on adding your 95% agreement, 5% doubt bullshit?

        Label yourself pro-nuclear, so that new users can see that you are, and don't take your comments as being anti-nuclear with a hint of doubt… doubt is your only tool, and uneducated users will allow that doubt to grow in their own minds.

        There IS no doubt, nuclear is, and always will be, death to us all.

      • Thorium isn't the nuclear savior you want it to be. Fission is fission, U233 produces fission products and actinide wastes just like any other uranium fission. It just doesn't produce plutonium. Not an acceptable trade-off, the technology is still fatally flawed and you still don't know what to do with all that deadly waste.

        "Somebody will think of something someday" is not an acceptable answer to the waste problem. Never was, never will be.

  • Sickputer

    Judy, Judy, Judy…time for you to say fond farewell to your former nuclear career since you are apparently about as useless at meltdown analysis as Prime Minister Abe. Your assertions are wrong and lacking a full knowledge of things that only veteran Enenewsers know about Unit 3 (and the rest of the destroyed units). We spent nearly three years studying thousands upon thousand of videos, eyewitness accounts, and private and government documents.

    You come to the ELE party late and don't even know the difference between fuel rods and fuel rod assemblies.

    You also write this blatant Big Brother lie:

    "To date, there is no data to support the hypothesis that the observed steam plumes contain significant radioisotopes detrimental to human health, local or abroad. To suggest otherwise, at this point in time, with no data, is nothing more than fear mongering."

    SP: Yes I am the fearmonger you and your cohorts in nuclear crime are so afraid of telling the truth. Go and sin no more. Your credibility is blown to pieces with your nucleorat nonsense.

    Nothing in the steam? Tell that to several billion dead starfish, sardines, seals, oarfish, salmon, butterflies, and bald eagles. Dead from Fukushima fallout.

    Madness in the Northern Hemisphere…

    • zogerke zogerke

      I missed that statement, ok now i agree. Totally. Shill. Paid whether directly or secondarily to protect nukes and craft bs to hide nuke caused harms; as we all, i included, illustrate arguments for shills to practice on. Shill indeed. To say the steam would not be radioactive is shillspeech, trolltalk, whether couched in civility or not. Shill.

  • pure water

    It was not a tiny steam streak TEPCO presented to the public. It was this, going up end down several times in a couple of hours:
    The date – 5 of July.

    • socref

      There is a reason for the fluctuations in steam. It has to do with adiabatic cooling and the time it takes for the heat source to recover from that cooling and produce more steam. We see this effect in normal steam plants (oil, coal), where thermal hot spots on secondary system pipes cycle over time. Thanks.

  • cooterboy

    I found Judy Haar's article of little substance, lacking, possibly a journal that could be accessed for peer review. It's not that I disagree with her its the problem she has. She just needs to test the steam for two specific elements and can't.

    You gotta ask yourself, do you think we could ask TEPCO if they could rig up a couple of cranes, string cable between them 200 ft. in the air. Then attach a cable car to the cable, with a safety rope attached, safety first, you know and send the head of the board out there with a geiger counter. A good one.

    First, we could solve the question of, what is in the steam.
    Second, the head of the board may shed some light on the issue of radiological (imminent) exposure. Hey it's only steam at this point and it's not a problem. Ask anybody.

    We have the technology to test the steam plume and not get anybody killed doing it. Forget the drones and get 3 good crane operators and install a semi permanent way to access the plant from above.

    The only real problem with this is that the truth may come out.

    • socref

      I was involved in a steam related incident some 30 years ago that almost cost me my life. Steam is a silent killer. It can cut a man in half. About 25 years ago 12 people were having lunch at a coal fired plant in Laughlin Nevada. Near the lunchroom, a steam reheater exploded, sending superheated steam through the vents and into the lunch room. Six people were scalded to death.

      • KidIcarus KidIcarus

        "Steam is a silent killer".

        I know a worse one.

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        Sorry to hear about the incident but that will not help the billions of humans who will directly now die from cancer related diseases from your supported Nuclear Technology! 🙁

        Follow this Nuclear Technology around anywhere from the ground it's taken from to the application in any form and you will find cancers everywhere. 🙁

        None of this information is/was hidden from view, it was only scattered purposefully so that others could not see/find it, the truth.

        Just go, look, seek, and you shall find the truth! 🙁

      • charlie3

        socref is an obvious troll and shill. Don't feed the disruptive troll, folks.

        • scottyji scottyji

          He's no more a shill than you are a shill for a different viewpoint. I've read his comments. He's not advocating anything. C'mon!

          • Simply a troll, fully advocating nuclear

            • scottyji scottyji

              No…Socref is trying to offer his educated opinion based on his work/life experience.
              Look…Fukushima is an unprecedented disaster for humans and all of the other life on this planet. No one really & truly knows what's going on there except that it's bleeding huge amounts radioactive poisons and 3 cores have melted down.
              Depending on whose opinion you research, for instance, about Unit 3 – Arnie G, Ian Goddard, Socref, others – you get differing hypotheses about what has actually happened.
              Now…the hypotheses are really just academic discourse and educated guesses. Just because a person's reasoned offering here doesn't agree with others' opinions on this site, he/she doesn't deserve a derogatory label just because you don't agree with the opinion. C'mon…
              Why don't "we all agree to disagree at times" on the opinions expressed here? It will make for a better forum. Cut people some slack here…Fukushima is uncharted territory for us all.
              FYI = I was recently banned from posting on a site simply because I posted a link from SimplyInfo article about Thorium reactors' not being as safe and wonderful as many people believe them to be. All I did was post the link with a quote from the article =


              So I guess that site's owner decided I was an ignorant "shill" and he wouldn't allow reasonable discourse. He had to be "right" about his thorium views and there was no room for dissent from the prevailing "truth"…

              • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                Scottyji, Socref can come and debate these topics all he wants too! 🙂

                I agree with your assessment and I personally like the fact that he is here and there is absolutely no way he can win any argument from a Pro Nuke Stance, just like you wouldn't/couldn't be successful doing the same. 🙂

                The Nuclear Technology Application on this Planet's surface has been a dismal failure since it all began in the early 1900's. 🙁

                All of it… pure garbage! 🙁

              • An obvious troll, touting basic lies. Cannot be trusted. A promoter. A shill.

                Taking pot shot ad hominems at my work.

                • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

                  Socref is well researched and knows that much of the research is flawed by past scientific grant funding that banished most radiation research that rocked the establishment. Thus, much of what's out there is very watered down and somewhat inconsistently bland.

                  Socref knows this can be argued about forever, because his people were responsible for the current state of the science.

                  Inviting him to debate this derailed science is like inviting a rooster to crow on top of his own pile of shit.

              • artika rama

                scoty He is Just throwing in some scinetific facts which are unrelated to the subject to make an argument just for the sake of making that argument ;It looks like some copy pasting from internet , with no relevant logic behind it .
                He is not having a discussion , he is just presenting his facts and usually false reasoning with it .
                Almost in every respond i got from him , i had to correct him ( check the comment history )
                You cannot have a discussion like that . I feel like talking to siri seriously .
                I tried to start a discussion with him several times but i couldnt even say what i wanted to say , had to stop in the middle to correct his DATA ,, that is not how people have a discussion .
                If your mind is already set , even BEFORE you start a discussion what you will PRESENT , than its not a discussion , its a presentation ,, (so you can imagine why people started thinking he is a pr firm with several people just getting info from internet and sending it through )
                Anyway , I have to go , in my time zone its VERY LATE .
                Besides people started making banana jokes 🙂

        • weeman

          Socref has the best analytical mind on this site and you should be ashamed of your conduct, he is a scientist and his training and education is etched into his mind and if he is censored from this site you are no better than the pro nuclear crowd and this will never be resolved.
          To see the full picture you have to look at both sides of the story or how can you come to a logical conclusion, you may have preconceived issues, but if you are not willing to concede points you are the one who is the shill.
          You must know your enemy to defeat or assimilate your enemy.
          I expect a ear full and I am sorry we disagree, we are still the parh of reason.

          • vicky13 vicky13

            >>To see the full picture you have to look at both sides of the story or how can you come to a logical conclusion,

            I agree weeman!!

          • artika rama

            weeman I even prefer discussions with the so called shills .
            After all the people who are infromed, already know the dangers we are facing .
            We need to convince the nonbelievers/ shills , after all they themselves , their families their loved ones ,, everyone is at risk , there are no exceptions in this catastrophe .

          • zogerke zogerke

            If there is friable asbestos, in an area exposed to air currents and thermal moist condensation moves over the asbestos, the fibers will spread and there will be asbestos exposure. It could be any respirable, breathable airborne hazard. Those fibers of asbestos will be carcinogenic if inhaled, whether i am there with my dosimeter to measure them or not. to say that steam released over an ongoing melt down…originating from the area of melt down, known to have high radioactivity releases, would not be radioactive, is ludicrous and i question the reality based sanity of anyone who buys that..

          • scottyji scottyji

            Yes…his contributions are valuable (and possibly even courageous) given the clear and pervasive anti-nuclear sentiments here

          • harengus_acidophilus


            "Socref has the best analytical mind on this site"

            A "nuclear engineer" with no clue about the periodic system of elements?

            No way!


            • hbjon hbjon

              h. He knows the period table and the properties of the elements. It's not his job to use facts to help understand the dangers we face from the catastrophe in Japan.

              He seems sharp with his communication skills, but I doubt socref has a straight face when he hits the submit button. We've compared nuclear explosions to the unit 3 detonation and they match up pretty good. Hydrogen explosion (as in fusion) a possibility. But fusion is not considered a criticality. Cold fusion is impossible imho.

              • harengus_acidophilus

                Maybye he knows how to read the PSE,
                but he is not familiar with.

                He has said: "Krypton atoms which are halogens".
                Halogens react very very easy, but noble gases don't react under normal conditions. In the PSE the columns of halogens and noble gases are neighbors. With no clue you can do this error.
                But the properties of noble gases are so special, you'll never forget this, if you are educated.

                Don't see him anymore …


      • cooterboy

        This is not a pressurized steam event. Stay on my topic and quit telling stories about the color of your horse, that is prettier than mine.

        Now this is the part that is starting to irritate me. "Steam is a killer". Therefore all steam is a killer. Spoken like a true scientist who isn't a professional rigger and knows nothing about construction.

        I can set up these cranes, rig the wire rope and trolly and send any radiation detector to any point you want, without getting cut in half by the steam or burned to death by steam. Get over your tragedy. I went to a war and there was death all around me. So what, it's war. Move on.

        What exactly is your point socref? Do nothing because there is steam?

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture


    And we're all getting radiated.

    They haven't a clue.

    • artika rama

      thebigpicture My experience untill now is that ,the nuclear scientists are good at nuclear science , thats all . They have no idea about the health effects environmental damage etc etc . and thats why in most cases they are not aware of the real danger of the nuclear industry to this planet .
      IMO nuclear scientists shouldnt be the only experts to consult when it comes to these kinds of accidents , but there should be a multi-disciplinary approach or we wont see the real picture (or thebigpicture 😉
      Because of their lack of knowledge in environment and health issues they are usually being used by the nuke industry for their own propaganda .

  • Ontological Ontological

    Haar concluded, “The Answer is Clear: Nuclear Power is Safe — The three major reactor accidents have shown the industry that even among the worst accidents, few and far between, there is little loss of life, as compared to other fuels".

    I cannot conceive this kind of thinking.

    Einstein was correct, Human stupidity is indeed infinite.

    Levels of her brand of education are: Associates Degree = Animal Dung, Baccalaureate of Science = Bull Shit. Masters = More Shit, and a PhD = shit Piled higher and Deeper.

    • eatliesndie eatliesndie

      Clearly, Haar is a total unitard.

    • Ontological Ontological

      One more brilliantly lame quote for the day, “A person would need to be exposed to 100 microREMs of radiation for 50,000 hours before it surpassed safety guidelines by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.”

      So that's 5.8 years already been 3. Ok so average city rad levels have been 200 to 300 or so mREM. so 2 years. In other words many of us already have been exposed to better than double the "safety levels" and the backgrounds are exponentially increasing daily.

    • TooExpensiveToMatter

      This is not the first time I have seen the "Fukushima implies nuclear power is very safe" claim and every time I see it I have the same reaction: WTF?

      The people who claim "little loss of life so it must be safe" leave out the "so far" caveat (either wittingly or nitwittingly).

      In other words, they 1) have no clue about possible long term impacts of radiation exposure — to human or other life (sea life in the case of ocean contamination, for example), 2) are in very deep denial or 3) are just being dishonest in the extreme.

      The Fukushiam disaster isn't even OVER for goodness sake (FAR from it), with ongoing massive radiation releases into the ocean and spent fuel pools hanging precariously 80+ feet in the air and corium God knows where doing God knows what and hot particles scattered about the countryside just waiting to be ingested or breathed in.

      If anything good comes out of Fukushima it will be that the general public start to appreciate that the so-called "nuclear experts" (some on this very thread) are like the emperor with no clothes. Nothing they say should be taken at face value (credentials don't mean squat without concrete evidence)

      The ones who are not dishonest are so enamored with their own "brilliant" BS that they have actually convinced themselves that it is true.

      Physicists have a reputation for thinking they are smarter than everyone else and nuclear physicists are the worst of the bunch.

  • AllenH AllenH

    Reactor three blew to hell and gone, what's he talking about meltdown ? Only the scraps left melted down, they are strong enough to do sufficient damage as well.

    • AllenH AllenH

      I meant Her (Haar-shill),
      Cooterboy's got a good idea on the testing.

    • Angela_R

      AllenH, The early photos give an indication. The following is an extract from an article published on 14th March, 2011.
      "We've never encountered this type of situation in history before," said Joe Cinncioni, a nuclear policy expert. We are beyond a reactor crisis at this point. This is a nuclear system crisis. The entire Northern part of the Japanese nuclear power system has been delivered a body blow."

      Further on in the article:
      "The Japanese government formally has asked the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission for help in stabilizing its nuclear reactors in the wake of the country's massive earthquake and tsunami."

      The explosion/s were admitted, way back then. Perhaps there was/were initially hydrogen explosions. However, the fact that radiation was said to be leaking, I would think, indicates a nuclear explosion. What say the scientists?

      The article mentions the likelihood of some future ocurrences

      A traumatized country struggled to cope; fearing for the US Navy they told them not to land…

      • AllenH AllenH

        I know they must of admitted it, kinda hard to cover up a mushroom cloud. They have asked for help, but have never accepted it.
        Future occurrences are a guarantee. But I recon for this plant just swelling contamination.
        But for other plants! We don't know yet, if there is another large event, like a quake or tsunami in and around the same area, there is Diani(4 damaged reactors), Onagawa(3 damaged reactors) and Tokai(1 damaged reactor) which are unspoken of, but could be the next big players in this house of cards.

  • w

    Looks like Judy Haar just an useless former nuclear chemist who have
    sold her soul to the nuclear industry and set up the Decoded Science web-site shill.

  • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

    Arnie Gunderson is on Coast to Coast right now.
    Just started 5 min ago… Awesome interview so far!
    Tune in if you can =]

  • dosdos dosdos

    It doesn't really matter where the core is. It's in the environment. There is no containment, so there is no inside or out. It's all over the place, scattered by explosions and deflagrations. In pipes, in cracks, underwater, above water, inside the buildings, buried by bulldozers, in the atmosphere, in the ocean, across the landscape, in Tokyo, in the upper atmosphere. It's everywhere, in some places, more plentiful than others.

    All this quibbling about where the corium is is moot, especially about #3.

    • Ontological Ontological

      Thank you, thank you very much. The corium has left the building. Coming soon to a city near you.
      Maybe the phenomenon should be called the Elvis Effect, and not China Syndrome.

  • markww markww

    My Observation is this japan put a lid on information that is coming out of Japan, unless we get any information we will be blind as to what is really happening.

    All anyone can do is make a assumption.


  • artika rama

    miss haar Its only pronuke propaganda to judge the nuclear accidents by the initial number of deaths . A nuclear accident is not like an atomic bomb explosion , it doesnt kill thousands right away . The isotopes get into the food chain , spread into the environment and keeps killing every living thing slowly in time .
    These kinds of falacies are comonly used by the pronuke groups . It is NOT true , period . Nuclear accidents kill millions and keep killing for thousands of years , only YOU cant see it unless you want to .
    Go tell it to the parents of those kids with thyroid cancer in japan , or to the parents of those newborns with hypothyroidism , mental retardation etc in US how safe nuclear industry is and see how they will deal with it .
    Infact you dont even have to do that , just wait a while and death wil come to your neighborhood soon , maybe to your family ,, maybe to your kids ,, then we rediscuss the safety of the nuclear industry and who is responsible of these crimes by promoting it .
    Or you can try to get informed and learn what it really is about . Join enenews and try to get informed before you comment on issues you know nothing about .

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Why would this woman's opinion ..have any more weight than the rest of the so-called experts.
    She is a writer..
    My advice to her…Not all articles need summation particularly when the time for summation has not arrived.

    PS..Side note ..I suggest she quit listening to the masters of science fiction…NASA.
    Just saying..

  • Angela_R

    "In the months after 3/11, Haar concluded: nuclear power is safe". Safe because nobody had died? What about the records! Who could call nuclear safe, when we have births defects such as these: and again

    There were explosions and radioactivity;
    and nobody died Miss Haar…are you sure?

    and you dismiss this living death that also occurs with Nuclear

    • Angela_R

      correction – Miss Haar didn't say there was no loss of life, she referred to 'little loss of life.'

      Miss Haar holds a degree in Nuclear Chemistry and she didn't know that it takes time for the injurious effects to health to start to show?

  • Ontological Ontological

    Expert: Ex = has been, Spurt = drip under pressure.
    An expert is a has been drip under pressure.

  • mesa777

    The firm’s officials say the facility’s air-filtering system will prevent any radioactive substances from leaking outside. […]

    Wow, am I reading this correctly?????? The facility's air-filtering system will prevent any radioactive substances from leaking outside??? HAHA!!! Maybe if it was 100% undamaged! UNREAL!

  • earthsmith earthsmith

    Golden Knee Pads = Expert.

  • Shaker1

    I usually don't comment upon articles such as this, but excuse me this contention “The Answer is Clear: Nuclear Power is Safe — The three major reactor accidents have shown the industry that even among the worst accidents, few and far between, there is little loss of life, as compared to other fuels.” is simply absurd on its face. How can she claim to be a 'scientist' and make such a definitive statement that is clearly outside of what is claimed to be her discipline? Cause/effect isn't as neat as experimental conditions might hope such things are. Does one have be in ill health with what is recognized as 'radiation sickness' to qualify for her catagory of loss of life? I might ask, too, if loss of life is simply death to her, and point out that 'loss' also she assumes might also be figured qualitively as well as quantitively.

  • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

    Last month congress approved a measure that will limit our access to US death statistics.

    Hmmmmmm…… Very interesting.

  • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

    That's right folks! Looks like we are going to have a hell of a time accessing the
    "Death Master File" .
    Why am I not surprised.

  • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

    PS… It is to help avoid identity theft!

  • Sol Man

    Haar is Miss Information from Delusion Central, who has lost her sovereign soul.

  • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

    Death master.

  • ToBeExpected ToBeExpected

    Nothing’s serious, or worth worrying about, until it effects ‘you’, or ‘your own’, personally….

    Same goes, for when you have cancer say.. they, feel sorry for you of course, and pity, but there is a kind of disconnect, a lack of natural affection and concern for others.

    That decisions that could have a part to play in someone else’s sooner or later demise, just don’t matter. We are so not evolved from apes.. they don’t behave like that toward their own do they? They are not capable of such abstract thought, subconscious or conscious.

    Human beings have become, so selfish, so self centred, and could care less about each other.

    It’s no wonder really, that everyone has their fingers on the buttons, and triggers, that could potentially annihilate the whole of the human race – we all live in fear of one another and secretly wish that no one else but us, existed – then there would be real peace, we surmise.. subcounciously.. or they do.. I don’t, and just about all here don’t, but I think that others do actually think like that… ya know?

    A very sad indictment of the human race!

    • tsfw tsfw

      How can people keep ignoring this, how much more proof is necessary. When you take timing and location and number of species affected, it's obvious. Seems that so far the starfish have taken the hardest hit and they circulate sea water rather than blood and have the first course at the radiation dinner table. Someone in another post was commenting that ENE doesn't have the right to speculate without hard data. Well why doesn't he ask himself WHY there is no data. If there is nothing to worry about, they'd be eager to prove it, if only to shut us up. Where is the data to prove that it's unrelated? Where are the lab results? Baffled upon befuddled and not a straight answer. If it's not radiation, then prove it and name the cause, it shouldn't be that difficult. Let's get everyone in the nuc industry hooked up to lie detector tests(televised) with a phone in question and answer period. I'm not a nuclear expert but I know when I'm being lied to. I trust the animals over the nuclear industry – have people just lost their instincts? It's not normal to watch animals drop dead and stay put, seems counteractivIe to survival, but what do I know, I don't have a degree. Thanks for posting Markww- I shudder at the thought of a world full of deformities such as this, can you imagine a day where it is rare to see a normal looking whale ):

        • tsfw tsfw

          Dietary information is available from stomach contents analyses of stranded beaked whales and from whaling operations. Their preferred diet is primarily deep-water squid,[6] but also benthic and benthopelagic fish and some crustaceans, mostly taken near the sea floor.[10] In a recent study, gouge marks in the seafloor were interpreted to be a result of feeding activities by beaked whales.[11]

      • artika rama

        tsfw we are just being precautious about NOT to jump to conclusions and be debunked later on . We want to be scientific in our methods to be able to fight this evil otherwise we have no chance .

        • tsfw tsfw

          Artika can you please tell me who is 'we'? I have read many articles similar to the one I posted, on this very site umpteen times. I'm just sharing news like many in here do.

          • artika rama

            sorry tsfw i still cant get used to responding / following / using this forum . I mean in general , we as antinuke activists when i posted in your message .

            • tsfw tsfw

              Why are you zoning in on me – I don't understand how the article I posted offends you in comparison to any other animal anomaly articles I have read on here. If the others who you speak for, want to tell me to stop posting such links, then I will respectfully oblige. I have nothing but respect for this site. I'm sorry if my whale link ( who would imagine seeing something like that on here) offended others.

  • many moons

    Nothing’s serious, or worth worrying about, until it effects ‘you’, or ‘your own’, personally….

    I don't know anyone who hasn't been effected by FUKU yet they probably don't know it. I've never been to so many funerals as well as the people I know commenting in the number of illnesses, funerals…
    If we had accurate stats it would be very clear but the data keepers are collecting info under new rules.
    Recently a loved one died of cancer and the death certificate said sepsis, yet the lab work said no sepsis…try to figure that out.

    • ToBeExpected ToBeExpected

      Cover up my dear, a cover up… I am so very sorry to read your post.. .. it's the very same that they say, for ones who die of chemo poisoning.. He or she died of cancer, it's that they must keep the coffers of the pharmaceutical companies full… even if it with fiat cash.. and even if it hurts you, these people just don't care.. it's the dollar, the mighty dollar or currency where ever you are that matters..

      Once again, very sorry to read about your loss, very sorry indeed.

      Bear hugs from a stranger who also has cancer themselves, me!

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Not all of us have cognitive dissonance..whether natural or purchased.
    I suspect a bit of both here.

    Nuclear chemist..Think she wants to talk strontium..ETC.?

  • For visitors, perhaps confused by details, but know in their gut (and common sense) Fukushima is beyond serious. Alert others. We'll get the details yet

    Japan Radiation Memo to All Citizens PDF

    Japan Radiation Memo in JPEG (for social media upload)

    Vital1's Radiation Memo to Parents

    Japan Radiation Memo to All Citizens PDF

    Japan Radiation Memo in JPEG (for social media upload)

    Vital1's Radiation Memo to Parents

    For you, family & friends…links to remediation

    Radical solutions welcome…hope

    p.s. hi howdy Heart!!

  • rogerthat

    socref says: ''The best we can hope for is that nuclear technology evolves''

    ha ha bloody ha

  • rogerthat

    From the Mayo Clinic article provided by Anne:
    "Brito and his colleagues acknowledge that there may be yet-unidentified reasons for the rapid rise in the incidence of thyroid cancer — radiation exposure from the widespread use of CT scans, for example. But the discrepancy between the incidence and death rates and the varying country-by-country incidence rates point most strongly to overdiagnosis as the reason behind the rise.''

    Well, they appear to know that there is a link between radiation exposure and thyroid cancer. So let's see, america is awash in radiation. Let's call in inspector Clouseau and ask him to track down where all this pesky radiation comes from.

  • rogerthat

    sorry, from bo, not anne.

    • bo bo

      Rogerthat, I read last night someone here mentioned japanese doctors trying to blame rise of thyroid cancer in fukushima children to over exposure to radiation from the CT scans as well.
      If anybody has link to this fact, please share.

  • rogerthat

    ha ha bo, i am sure in japan they know it's just because the kids stopped smiling

  • rogerthat

    one thing's for sure, radiation causes scientests to become perplexed

  • A little off-topic here, but the room i'm in is at about 90 – sucks. But I just checked an old pair of sneakers and they are clicking around 250. It's a very good thing in our family, we practice taking off your shoes when coming into the house and since the early 1990s, for spiritual reasons. Now, its for safety reasons, too.

    Fukushima Research blog on articles and videos since 3-11-11

  • jump-ball jump-ball

    There have been several food references here, so hopefully this FOOD TESTING announcement made today will not be an OT diversion.

    Finally, the FOOD 137 TESTING our lame gov't refuses to do, will be done by Mike Adams of Natural News, for Cesium 137 and more, at his new lab site below.

    How long 'our' politicized, wasteful federal agencies think they can continue to be funded, and operate through denial, lying and 'perception management', is beyond astonishment.

    Maybe private testing and public revelation of the growing reality and extent of nuclear U.S. food contamination, by true Americans like Mike Adams, will bring our shameless, employment-scheme, voting-'base', agencies to their knees:

  • nehemiah4.20 nehemiah4.20

    The complexities of radiation dispersal and the potential for future calamities are difficult issues to ascertain. I have not found a better place for discussion of Fukushima than right here.

    The answer is Jesus. In Him is fullness, for He is The Light of the world. Break open His word to >know< His will for Your life. He will guide you and offer you salvation and comfort in these perilous days. He is healer and deliverer, He is your destination in this world. His wish is that no one should perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16,17

    For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. -1 Timothy 1:7

    Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you. -Matthew 6:33
    Accept Jesus as your Lord and Master today.
    Then read His word -every single day-be washed-purified, pray, worship and rejoice and fellowship with other believers-disciples who seek Him above all else. Tell everyone the good news while there is still time !

    Read psalms (such as psalms 91) and the Gospels and Acts 28:2-6 to know that you are protected and read the rest of His word to know why and how He wants to use you.

    Apart from God/Elohin Jesus/Yashua – the world does not have the answers.

    Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show you great and mighty things which you do not know.-Jeremiah 33:3


  • This is just disturbing. Hopefully the people that are in charge there can clean up what they've done to our oceans and our whole environment. I've even heard that some starfish are melting in the seas because of nuclear exposure. Hope we all take some precautions and stay well through this all.

  • We Not They Finally

    What could be criteria for what we would call an ELE.An extinction level event? First of all ELES are events that lead directly to the lost of ones planet…Examples that lead to ELES include the end of the food chain in the Ocean and thus the death of the ocean.The die off of species like sardines and other small fish and planckton that are responsible for 70% of the earths oxygen and the food chain which is how we have a situation where our food comes from.

  • Sickputer

    It was said in the old days that every year Thor made a circle around Middle-earth, beating back the enemies of order. Thor got older every year, and the circle occupied by gods and men grew smaller. The wisdom god, Woden, went out to the king of the trolls, got him in an armlock, and demanded to know of him how order might triumph over chaos.

    "Give me your left eye," said the kind of the trolls, "and I'll tell you."
    Without hesitation, Woden gave up his left eye. "Now tell me."
    The troll said, "The secret is, Watch with both eyes!
    —John Gardner

    SP: Thousands of Enenewseers (like that typo?) have their eyes open. Both of them. The pro nuke forces bring cancer and birth defects to the bargaining table…hardly strong points for winning a favorable truce. They have lost, but just can't kick their addiction to greed and power.

    They will not escape the verdict of history.

  • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

    Web Cam is looking BAD!!!

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