Nuclear Consultant: They will have to maintain Fukushima ice wall for hundreds of years if ever installed (AUDIO)

Published: September 9th, 2013 at 2:27 pm ET
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40 comments


Title: Japan to spend £300 million on Fukushima ‘ice wall’ containment
Source: Voice of Russia – UK Edition
Author: Daniel Cinna
Date: Sept. 3, 2013

Full broadcast here

Published: September 9th, 2013 at 2:27 pm ET
By

40 comments

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  5. Japan Nuclear Professor: It’s feared Fukushima fuel pool to “collapse in” at any time; “Any scale of accident is possible” — Expert warns ice wall increases risk that reactor units will move or shift; Buildings ‘very precarious’ even without frozen barrier being constructed (AUDIO) June 10, 2014

40 comments to Nuclear Consultant: They will have to maintain Fukushima ice wall for hundreds of years if ever installed (AUDIO)

  • weeman

    No matter what approach is eventually established, time will always be a factor. Period.


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  • Makes sense. Your not building an ice wall but installing a machine to freeze ground in a desperate attempt to contain radiation from a triple meltdown. Nice legacy for our children maintaining all this spent fuel for generations all over the world for idiots who made money out of this mess today. Surely the most selfish generation ever.


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    • Gasser Gasser

      Sing it like ol' blue eyes Frank

      ~They Did It Their Way~

      And now the end is near

      So we face the final curtain

      My friend, I'll say it clear
      
I'll state my case of which I'm certain.

      Were living life that cannot be fulfilled
      
We've traveled each contemned highway

      And more, much more than this

      NRC and TEPCO screwed us their way.

      Nuclear regrets, we've had, more than a few
      
But then again, too many to mention
      
We did what we thought had to do

      And grimaced through NRC's deception.

      We've seen each Cesium charted course
      
Each radioactive step along the byway
      
Oh, and more, much more than this

      NRC and TEPCO also screwed us their way.

      Yes, there were times, I'm sure you know

      When scientist bit off more than they knew

      But through it all when there was doubt

      They ate our money up and spit us out

      We faced it all and we protested it all

      And did it our ENEnews way.

      We've feared, we've pained and cried
      
We've seen their fails, their fear of losing

      And now our tears never subside

      We find it all so humanity abusing.

      
To think they did all that

      And may we say, in a really pissed off way

      Oh, yes, yes, it's them

      Nuclear scientist did it their…..ELE way

      For no longer is man, what has he got

      If not himself, then he has not

      To say the words he truly feels

      And the truth words he would reveal

      The record shows Nuclear reactor blows

      And they did the dirty deeds

      The record shows we can't take the blows…


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    • At best, there is very little fuel left in the reactor containments, so they are dealing with 5% of the problem, probably 1%.

      The other 99% is being ignored…

      3 out of control, 100 ton, 5,000 degree radioactive fire balls, sinking down into the ground.

      Once they have their ice wall, we will find out whether radiation levels continue to rise, from these 3 coriums, or whether it is true that the coriums were contained in the buildings, and the ice walls works to isolate them from the ocean.

      Any bets?


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    • 70 years of nuke dude, don't be too harsh on "our generation", be harsh on human greed and find ways to punish it. 70 years is about 3 generations in my book.

      What is not forgivable though, is for those who have enlightenment, to not EFFECTIVELY kill nuke.

      Please EFFECTIVELY KILL NUKE


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  • jec jec

    Works as long as you maintain for 200 or so years, for the Cesium..

    Oh..has anyone thought/mentioned about fisson..or the recriticality of the corium masses or from the damaged'highrise' fuel rods? As in releasing MORE(newly made..) nuclear products..such as cesium..or tritium..or strontium..or PU or or or….


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  • rockyourworld

    does this ice wall involve electric? what happens in a black out?


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Yes, ice wall will require massive amounts of electricity for hundreds of years. And it better be generated from wind and solar. That has to be law! .. because look at the mess we're in from nuclear. Worst man-made development in history, times a million.


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    • Sickputer

      Dishonest Abe will probably see if they can get Units 5 and 6 running again at Daiichi. Hopefully they were ruined by the first ten days when they used saltwater cooling.

      They couldn't even make their filtering system hold up for two years. So a 200-year life span for an ice mechanism? Dream on Tokyo nucleorats. I personally doubt they will ever break ground on this project.

      Don't be surprised when the web cameras are turned off at Fukushima for public viewing. When they start removing fuel assemblies in December things may go south in a hurry. Out of sight, out of mind. We will really need some workers to tweet news then, but they will be monitored closely.


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    • Looks like they'll be importing US natural gas to keep it frozen. Well, to try to, anyhow…

      http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/fukushima-ice-wall-investing/3801

      "Japan Begs for More Shale Gas:

      A Sad Irony
      As with any crisis, there is an opportunity. And in the case of this ice wall, there's one thing that you can count on…
      It's going to take a hell of a lot of energy to keep that thing cold. Talk about a sad irony!
      So, where will Japan get enough energy to keep this ice wall from turning into a waterfall?
      I have two words for you: natural gas.
      Folks, this is just one more opportunity for the U.S. to sell some of its massive bounty to an energy-starved nation.
      And what an opportunity it is…"


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  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

    severo hundred year! Rots of ruck. (permission to make fun of my Louisiana drawl/New Deli accent)

    38% of butterflies have ruined DNA around Fukushima resulting in deformity. This will be seen in other low level species like humans, frogs, ticks and leaches. …ok, remove frogs from the low level category. More catastrophic accidents are almost assured since the plant is unstable and destroyed. What no scientist is saying is that the radioactivity will accumulate in the higher animals, like whale and dolphin…some 300 times, resulting in mass deaths and deformities.

    Busby estimates 60 million have died from human contributions of nuclear poison. Yet outrage or change has not occurred, and a transparent campaign to downplay the deadly dangers continues.

    The powers that be, call them corporate scum, illuminati, elders of Z, or elected officials continue their trajectory, fueled by the worlds largest wealth and power, guided by autocentric greed, disassociated from the natural world . They dont care at all about memos and signatures from the insignificant.

    Life is a delicate and highly refined thing. Bringing poison, and insensitive and devious human influence will assuredly result in death and destruction on a broad scale. Whats good about it?


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    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      regarding animal suffering, I find this illustrative of mans utter insensitivity and ignorant autocentrism;

      The idea that animals might not experience pain or suffering as humans do traces back at least to the 17th-century French philosopher, René Descartes, who argued that animals lack consciousness. Researchers remained unsure into the 1980s as to whether animals experience pain, and veterinarians trained in the U.S. before 1989 were taught to ignore animal pain. Current academic reviews of the topic note that, although it is likely that some animals have at least simple conscious thoughts and feelings, some authors continue to question how reliably animal mental states can be determined


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Tepco “Ground wall material got into the underground observation hole” → Abandoned data
    Sept 9 2013
    Tepco stated the issued observation hole because un-usable due to the chemical material got into the hole.

    The material is a sort of grout used to the impervious wall to stop groundwater.

    The groundwater level was observed to be rising in this hole. The water came up to the surface of ground and it contained the chemical material that should have become the wall.

    Since 9/5/2013, this boring hasn’t been referred to. The soundness of the impervious wall hasn’t been announced."

    http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/09/tepco-ground-wall-material-got-into-the-underground-observation-hole-%e2%86%92-abandoned-data/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FukushimaDiary+%28Fukushima+Diary%29

    Short post..so I posted it all.


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  • Charles Charles

    This is such a load of horse puckie! We can tunnel a mile under New York City. We can see oil 7000 feet down. Don't tell me we can't get under this and catch it.


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  • tooktheredpill tooktheredpill

    The second world war ended only 68 years ago yet I dare anyone on here to look at the grainy footage and try to associate our lives with those back then In my grandparents era. When we start talking about 100…200 years in to the future think about how even crazier that sounds when we start talking about the 1ST WORLD WAR! Man cannot comprehend beyond their own generation!!!. To commit our children and their children and their children's children to dealing with our atrocities is unimaginable. How would we feel now if the nuclear world had started two/three generations earlier and you and I were now faced with looking after a NPP that went up 60 years ago and had polluted our entire world and is still spewing for the next 300 years. That's what my little boy (and his great grandchildren if he manages to grow old and survive) have to look forward to. The term shortsighted doesn't even begin to encompass it.


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  • norbu norbu

    Nuclear, Funny way to boil water, even more funny now they want to freeze it in place. Stupid Human Tricks….
    N


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  • Helo Pics from Mar20 and 24 2011…they were kinda' secret but hiding on the web all this time and lucky me came across them…
    so i uploaded them…
    http://wyynd.tripod.com/HRfs.html

    take a look at what they want to freeze…
    this is the biggest bunch of unending lies we've had a chance to witness since the WTC bullS..T…..
    it belongs in the Guiness Book of Records..as one of the longest lastest lies………


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  • And what about the multiple corium's that are 4 km down and digging?


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    • mopar69 mopar69

      No offense, conjecture or sourced?


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      • omniversling

        M69..re-re-repost with update:

        At 2400-2800c corium burns through concrete at the rate of 5cm per hour, and the base of the concrete dry well beneath the pressure vessel is about 8m as far as I can discover (anyone with better knowledge?). The time it would have taken the corium to burn through that thickness is about 160 hours. There are 24 hours in a day so 160 hours is 6.6666 days. There's one for the numerologists amongst us! Debbil's work for sure..

        So let's say that after the fuel to start melting following the main cooling system failure during the earthquake (not tsunami, earthquake that fractured the cooling pipes), within about a week the corium would have been into the ground. Providing of course the thermal power of the corium was not exhausted by the concrete as is passed through.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_%28nuclear_reactor%29
        http://enenews.com/new-asahi-doc-nisa-team-knew-of-triple-meltdowns-by-march-18-nisa-kept-secret-until-tepco-admitted-it-two-months-later-melted-fuel-not-fully-submerged-in-water

        Also, Arnie Gundersen puts the temperature of corium closer to 3500C, so could go through even faster, and who knows how fast or far it may have gone through the rubble that FukuSteamer was built on…plus, how many fractures or cracks in the foundations now from hundreds of tremors since…does the rise of the tide now contact the coriums and create all the steam that is rising from the ground and between the reactors now?

        (cont)


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        • omniversling

          I assume that a fully blobbed blobbium, that had taken the path of least resistance thru the 'control rod' holes in the bottom of the PCV, taking out the control rods (hence the 'cold shut-down 'conditions') and exiting the ontrol rod drive cavity, quite probably enlarging the holes as it flowed. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reaktor.svg

          If the blobium stayed blobby and didn't form random elephant foot stylee sculptures as it took the first steps on it's journey to the centre of the earth (remember glasshopper, it's the journey not the destination – unless you're late for the loo!), it COULD by now have:

          5cm per hour x24 = 1.2 meters per day
          x 910 days = 1092 meters = 1.092 kilometers (ish)

          Buts that calculation was for concrete, not conglomerate sand/mudstone that has been washed through by, oh, about 1000 tonnes (1000 cubic meters) of ground water and cooling water per day for 910 days….

          So who really knows…but I dont reckon it'd be 4km…maybe the doctor knows better…Doc?


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  • Japan Fukushima Safecast Citizen Radiation Tracking And Map Project; via @AGreenRoad
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/08/japan-fukushima-safecast-citizen.html

    Maj. Gen. Stubblebine (US Army ret) – Fukushima Analysis; via @AGreenRoad
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/08/maj-gen-stubblebine-us-army-ret.html


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  • ftlt

    There is a good chance that FUFU will be below sea level at high tide with decent storm surge in a hundred years… As will be many other nuclear plants located on the coast about the globe..

    Sea level rise and nuclear plants is a not very much discussed issue…

    It is too horrible to contemplate…


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  • SusanS

    ☢ Fukushima Petitions to Sign & Share! ☢
    ☢ Japan Needs Worldwide Help NOW! ☢

    http://tinyurl.com/FixFuku

    ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢


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  • We Not They Finally

    Well, "the good news" is that surely there won't be another major earthquake in Japan for the next 200-300 years. Besides, the great-great-great-grandchildren of today will be thrilled to do their part in monitoring this. I mean, what are descendants for?


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    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Another 9.0 is predicted soon:

      Volcanic Fury, Another 9.0 Quake
      By Yoichi Shimatsu
      Exclusive to Rense.com
      6-19-11
      “While doing the decontamination project in the north, I dug a deep hole in a field to check on background radiation. Layer after alternating layer of thick volcanic deposits (yellow soil, pyroclastic) and thin bands of black organic matter. In other words, for most of Japanese prehistory, volcanoes – not life – have ruled.

      “The Tohoku region is a series of vast volcano craters, all of them still alive and well, bubbling up hot springs. Most are not little mountains, but massive, the size of counties in the USA.
      “The phenomenal frequency of big quakes in Tohoku, they are happening at light speed in geological time, means magma is on the move.
      “If one or more of these giants blow, the land will be covered by 2 – 4 meters of ash and toxic gas. That, in turn, would completely shut down roads, power and water, meaning all the nuclear reactors in northern Japan would melt down.
      “The events since 3.11 could be a mere hint of things to come, a triple disaster leading toward the fourth and final catastrophe.
      “Here is a report on Japan Meterological Agency from early April that somehow managed to slip thru -


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      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        [cont.]
        “Japan's 20 Volcanoes Have Come Alive After The 9.0 Tohoku Quake…Another Is Expected
        TheWatchers.Adorraeli.com
        4-11-11
        “Japan's Meteorological Agency on Friday warned the country's 20 volcanoes has become alive due to the massive March 11 earthquake, and a study said earthquake over 9.0-magnitude might hit Japan.
        “The Agency said volcanic explosion occurred after earthquake several times in history and people should maintain vigilance against this tendency.
        “The number of earthquake above 6.0 M reached 77 on March. And 74 out of them occurred in quake-hit region, were aftershock. The number is 50 times over the same period last year.
        “The largest aftershock on April 7 hit Japan has killed 4 people, injured at least 166, and caused a power outage over 2.61 million households, according to Japan's police officials. The “Meteorological Agency warned aftershocks above 6.0 M like the April 7 earthquake probably would hit Japan again. …”
        http://rense.com/general94/mag.htm


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  • razzz razzz

    Nothing else has worked so far so an underground ice dam couldn't hurt. If they ever get a ice wall ringed around the leaking Units then they can always dig and construct more permanent concrete dam/walls underground because the ground will be frozen stable for digging.

    The leaking Units really need to be isolated from the surrounding environment.

    They have a couple hundred years to figure out how to do it, I have complete confidence that someday they will do it.


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  • FXofTruth

    What a Joke! We are totally screwed as a civilization if this is the best minds working on this problem!

    Only the brainless would design something that is made of the worst material possible…water. Hey brainiacs, what happens if a few major earthquakes happens in the next 300 years…say like 30 to 50 of them? Your ice wall going to stay together? One major quake can cause a MAJOR wall failure and all that intense, deadly radiation will flow everywhere! One major wall failure and the whole project was for nothing!

    The radiation must be affecting the thinking process of the "professional" nuclear engineers. Get with Reality!
    Two to 300 years of maintaining this is REQUIRED for future generations? Then we are suppose to hope that better technology is developed by these generations to "fix" the mess we left them?
    If I was them and I knew who created this problem, I would urinate on your graves!

    We are the stewards of this planet and THIS is how we leave it for the future generations! Shows how retarded this iteration of Mankind was…


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  • The ice wall won't have any effect on the fission activities will it?…I mean you can't freeze the corium or fuel rods right?…well i don't really know…
    There's a lot of fission going on all over the site…got these pics from someone posting here and uploaded them…they show real time events taking place….hot stuff….
    http://wyynd.tripod.com/radE.html


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    • omniversling

      No Wynd, 0c ice is no match for 2400-2800-3500c blobium…sorry…I'd even venture to say that if there was any zircalloy fuelrod casing in the mix it'd also contribute to a pyrophoric reaction: water 'burning' (heat separates oxygen and hydrogen elemnts in water, which provides fuel for the fire. Thought to be the cause of the hydrogen explosions at Fukup…).


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      • weeman

        You can not freeze radioactive isotopes they produce there own heat, in fact even if you were to achieve absulote zero it would not stop fissioning, the laws of physics do not apply to radioactive isotopes.
        Sorry out of mankind league.


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