Nuclear Engineer: Radiation levels “much higher” in areas of Fukushima plume headed to west coast than models show — Radio: Concern “other isotopes” besides cesium to cross Pacific (AUDIO)

Published: April 11th, 2014 at 4:20 pm ET


NPR, KQED Forum, March 10, 2014 — Dan Madigan, Stony Brook University adjunct assistant professor (at 18:45 in): The models that predict the spread across the Pacific Ocean reaching the Eastern Pacific at some certain time is pretty much totally agreed upon, as in some amount of radioactive cesium and potentially other isotopes will cross the Pacific Ocean. The question is in the amounts. […] I want to point out I’m not saying that, or suggesting that, it won’t necessarily be problematic at all. But so far, all the information that’s been put forth has suggested that — I think a lot of people don’t know — in many ways this is a unique thing to happen to the Pacific Ocean, so people weren’t sure what they’d measure. >> Full broadcast here

IdeaSphere, Public Radio Exchange, March 26, 2014 (at 8:15 in):

  • Guy Rathbun, host: Speaking of the San Onofre nuclear plant, the reading for iodine-131 was much higher than what thought possible 5400 miles away from the site of the Fukushima accident.
  • David Lochbaum, trained nuclear engineer and director of the Union of Concerned Scientists’ Nuclear Safety Project: That’s true. I think what you’re seeing is the computer models assume that radiation particles are uniformly distributed in the air or water and therefore get transported across US shores. In reality there are particles that are not broken up evenly. It’s not like sugar dissolving in water. It’s more like particles that are suspended in water, and also there’s particles in the air, that cause local hotspots or high readings — much higher than the overall plume which seems a much more homogenous or uniform mixing. The computer models are good but they don’t account for the hotspots that people sometimes detect.

Full interview available here

Published: April 11th, 2014 at 4:20 pm ET


Related Posts

  1. Newspaper ignores scientific models that show Fukushima radiation impacting West Coast — Fails to inform readers by only reporting on discredited tsunami wave-height map — “What illness of the mind must people have to lie about the threat?” (ACTUAL FORECAST MODELS) January 24, 2014
  2. Japan Researchers: Models show North America hit with ‘very high’ levels from Fukushima plume — Radioactive material in ocean off West Coast was up to 500 times more than expected (VIDEO) August 27, 2014
  3. Gov’t Expert: West Coast will soon be hit by 800 Trillion Bq of Fukushima Cesium-137 — Nearly equal to amount of fallout deposited on Japan — Levels in Pacific “higher than expected” — “Main body of surface plume has reached off coast of US” — Never slowed down while crossing ocean, contrary to prediction June 7, 2015
  4. Senior Scientist: Cancer increase expected on West Coast from Fukushima exposures; Radioactive particles can bio-accumulate and form hotspots while crossing Pacific — KCRW: Concern California wildlife to be impacted; Sea life can biomagnify nuclear waste, leading to higher levels of radiation (AUDIO) April 14, 2014
  5. Twice as much Fukushima radiation near California coast than originally reported; Highest levels found anywhere in Eastern Pacific — Scientist: Very little we can do… It’s unprecedented… God forbid anything else happens — Gundersen: Multiple plumes now along west coast… Will be coming “for century or more” (AUDIO) November 20, 2014

142 comments to Nuclear Engineer: Radiation levels “much higher” in areas of Fukushima plume headed to west coast than models show — Radio: Concern “other isotopes” besides cesium to cross Pacific (AUDIO)

  • wildandfree wildandfree

    Much too slowly the word is getting out there in public. Slowly the levels detected by the folks are increasing. We have stimulate the information transfer to move faster into the general public than the rate of RAM increase if we are going to have a significant impact.

    • Bay Area Guy 2

      I have tried with family and friends and I generally get a blank stare back. There are two success stories, however. My niece and her boyfriend are going to Singapore in November and asked me where to go in Japan as I had previously been there (pre-F). I told them I would strongly suggest NOT going to Japan, but picking some other place. While I'm no fan of China, I told my niece that at least the history in Beijing would be better and she wouldn't glow it the dark after coming back. She called her boyfriend, who is a nurse, and told him of my concerns about the radiation. He immediately agreed and thanked me for warning them and so, they decided to stop off in Beijing instead of in Japan.

    • Canuck1

      I was at the grocery store and a Japanese girl in her 20's was ready to pickup some seaweed chips. I said it was probably radiated from Fukushima. She looked at me blankly and said.. what?..I repeated it..Without another word, she put it in her basket! Incredibly stupid people out there


        I was at a Trader Joes, Canuck1, and stopped a woman who was about to put a bag of seaweed chips in her cart, as we were heading through the checkout. I made a grimace and gestured towards the bag. She said "What?" I leaned towards her and whispered "Fukushima…those are coming from Korea." She immediately returned them to the shelf and quietly thanked me…

        • tsfw tsfw

          Excellent, you rock!

        • We Not They Finally

          Yes, the "good" stores that we all love, like Trader Joe's and Costco — there is no food monitoring protecting the U.S., period. Last time we were in Costco's because there were Japanese characters all over the boxes of green tea, Kirkland brand. (That's Costco's own brand.) So we knew that the green tea was from Japan. We went to customer service and said that they need to NOT carry that or poison the customers. They listened, but God knows what they were or weren't able to do.

          The same for Trader Joe's and the soy sauce bottles marked "Made in Japan."

          Or anyone can walk over to the sushi section of any Whole Foods and ask where their seaweed and fish come from, and they will be told "Japan."

          And YES, people should start conversations with other customers while waiting on the check-out line! We do that a lot.

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Are you sure it's from Japan? A lot of the Asian characters (writing) look alike. Just curious.

            The Vietnamese (and other Southeast Asian), Korean, and some Japanese characters all look alike to me.

            Chinese characters look distinctly different to me.

            But I'm not an expert on the script.

    • radioactiveruss radioactiveruss

      Two short videos and a link to information and ACTIONS WE ALL MUST BEGIN TO TAKE IMMEDIATELY including civil actions against the media which have violated their duties to report honestly and completely and are guilty under the Doctrine of Negligence. I am preparing these civil actions now for public participation.
      Next WE MUST claim out Lawful Sovereign Authority and Command, Order and Direct our Elected Officials To begin an immediate truthful Investigation into the Pentagon and the fact that there was no Airplane involved and their FAILURE to Speak Out is an ACT OF TREASON, against the Constitution For America, the Federal Government and even State Governments do not have Constitutional Authority or Protections and must be brought to TRIAL or at least a very public questioning of those in office today and especially those in office back on that date.
      Please come help us. We do not want your money, or even much of your time.
      Please go to

      My Plea for Truth and Honesty and the help of all those reading this post

      Demand to Federal Judge Katheryn Forrest

  • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

    Well, I think Madigan is one to pay attention to.

    Now why he felt the need to dance around the subject of "…potentially other isotopes will cross the Pacific Ocean."
    is a mystery to me.
    How would the other isotopes NOT ride along with 134Cs/137Cs???
    If anyone would have some great insight on predicting this it would be Madigan, et al.

    Daniel J. Madigan
    Post Doctoral Associate
    Ph.D., 2013, Hopkins Marine Station of Stanford University
    B.A. Biology, 2005, Dartmouth College

    "I am broadly interested in the trophic ecology and migration patterns of pelagic predators such as tunas, sharks, and other highly migratory species. My dissertation work utilized stable isotopes to examine trophic dynamics in one of the world’s most productive upwelling ecosystems, the California Current. I also utilized Fukushima-derived radiotracers, coupled with stable isotope analysis, to analyze trans-Pacific migration dynamics of Pacific bluefin tuna,…"

  • Ontological Ontological

    In my experience, a fuel flea up my nose, skull cancer, a PhD, and I still have got absolutely NOWHERE with these rich assed fools here in S Nv. They do NOT wish to hear their bottom line may be affected soon. No respect is what I endure. Propaganda bullshit flies at all levels here. This shit SUCKS and it's being entirely done by a handful of IDIOTS with no clue whatsoever about being HUMAN!

    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      More of a 'side' topic, rather than OT:

      'Time running out for rarest primate'

      "Rescue bid launched to save Hainan gibbon from becoming first ape driven to extinction by humans."

      A lot of 'primates' are disappearing now.

    • Homolumina Homolumina

      This guy here – Billy Meyer – is getting lots of attention recently. What is coming from his source sounds like exactly what we are experiencing now and beyond … Here a summary of his statements :

      And I feel you Ontological, the self bred stupidity and deterioration of the human spirit is also a result of ongoing and increased radiation exposure…as you all on this forum know anyways… but here for the newbies who just woke up to this nightmare…

      • Ontological Ontological

        I know it is hard to cut any slack when one gets no slack whatsoever. To use radiation dementia as an excuse makes it no better than no education whatsoever. The fault still lies on the Human end. To hand ignorance in for money was a huge mistake.

      • We Not They Finally

        WTTW (word-to-the-wise — just catching onto the lingo myself): Billy Meyer may NOT be the best source. Look to Steven Greer (Disclosure Project) for in-depth, sane, documented views.

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      Maybe they are not human and whom ever they are might simply be preparing the planet of others designated arrivals..who need higher background radiation levels to survive.

      Humans at the top of the pyramid must have cut a deal…with them.

      • tsfw tsfw

        I wonder this often. Even look at people like Oprah and Dr Phil etc … when the hell do they sleep? Obewan I'd love to talk to you about the strange lights in the sky here. I don't talk to many people about it, because I get the same reaction as when I talk about Fuku.

        Ok screw it here it goes for all to see:

        For 4 years we've been watching these things; they stay in the same positions for the most part and they flash red,blue,white and yellow. We've counted up to 30 of these things on a good night. We've seen them move but they mostly stay in position. You can see the colours very clearly with the naked eye if you look, but if you only glance quickly you will think it;s a star like any other. But when we view through our astro-binos we can see the lights are so bright that we can't identify what sort of structure they're attached to. Everyone around here thinks they're satellites but I've done my research and they are absolutely not satties or stars or google earth cams. People want a simple answer so badly, that they make them up. I have zero clue what these things are but someone does. Here is an article I came across last year, that explains exactly what we're seeing.
        Also at around 3am for the past month or so, two of them have been pairing up and becoming brighter and flashier. Very odd.Take your binos out tonight maybe?
        We can even see them on rainy days or full moons, when no other stars are visible…

        • tsfw tsfw

          NASA = Never A Straight Answer

        • Runningonlove Runningonlove

          Hey tsfw, I've been hearing much about the bright hovering/slowly moving "orbs" the last year or 2…have never seen any yet myself,
          although I look frequently. It'll probably happen tonight now that I've said that…are you near an air force base? Or do you get a more not-of-this-world impression from them? Do they ever move quickly, or fade in from, or out to nothing? Antigrav propulsion has been developing since WW2, but not for the public.
          Rense has interviewed the folks from Mufon and UFO Chronicles on this topic numerous times over the last 10 years.Orange seems to be the coleur du jour lately.I wonder if they ever show up near Fuku…maybe they could simply teleport the whole mess out to the asteroid belt for us…voila! End of problem.


        just the opposite, obewanspeaks. All of this is due to the collective actions (and is another sense, inaction) of this planet's 'evolved' occupants. One might suggest, if humans were more 'receptive' to those who must remain hidden behind the scenes, perhaps they'd discover solutions that have, until now, eluded them. Do keep in mind, anything capable of traveling billions of light years has no need to resort to underhanded strategies, had they any desire to take what's easily taken. Just as is the case of informing the public to the danger that now swirls about them, it's far more likely that the mucky-mucks are keeping humans in the dark to what the 'alien agenda' is really about. And that may simply be due to the fact that the elite are being kept in the dark…

  • YukonRadiation YukonRadiation

    Wildandfree you are so right about the speed of info getting out there? what is up with people? yesterday i'm getting a CT scan, I'm 60-80 feet away from the room changing and i have my geiger counter in my pocket which was on with out me knowing. suddenly it is going crazy, 1.63 mSv . i ask the nurse and she looks like i'm on drugs . i talk her into taking it into there booth while i'm fried and it hits 1.2mSv in there safe room? end of it all , they have it tested when they first built the room and now they have badges so it is al fine and besides what do i know about it. NO ONE CARES? friends of mine have come down with the same cancers? the second time in history this has happened to a couple , end of that story oh it just happens? and this story concern "OTHER ISOTOPES" we are so mixed up here? DOES ANYONE CARE OR IS THIS A BAD DREAM?

    • name999 name999

      yukon, that sounds terrifying.

      • YukonRadiation YukonRadiation

        999 which part? is this crazy talk? how do you go to your local hospital and ask if you can geiger your CT machine and area with out looking like a nut? maybe the news paper's , no i like getting served at the hospital when i need too? i see a time soon when it will be illegal to use a geiger counter for personal use! As for the couple i know, wow they are great people. hers came first and she has been battling the good fight and now he gets the news rom his doctor? hmmm there is no such thing as radiation and if it is , it's all natural . that i just heard about 20 minutes ago! here is a good way of getting people to think if you live where there are birds? just get them to start keeping numbers of the birds that come to your feeder ? the numbers are dropping? ow counts for the spring Swans so far?

        • orange

          Information on CT scans:

          CT scan = 10,000 microsieverts of radiation

          "A single CT scan exposes a patient to the amount of radiation that epidemiologic evidence shows can be cancer-causing."

        • MoonlightEmpire MoonlightEmpire

          Just bird COUNTS are no indication of NPP contamination, so don't get your hopes up…or the neighbors counting birds for radiological reasons.

          This is because there are thousands of man-made toxins that can effect the numbers of birds you see…not to mention destruction of habitat…which is occuring at greater and greater speeds every day.

          This is not to say that rads aren't at work, just that counting birds at the feeder is not an appropriate way to determine how much rads are effecting things.

          Further, stop putting seed in the feeders. It creates an artificial environment for the wild birds which is actually hurting them in more ways than I can describe right now. To put is simply, if you love the birds (and other nature) then stop feeding them.

          One Reason: All birds are very much in touch with their environment and food source. Additionally, birds are a prime seed-dispersal vector for native (and naturalized) plants. If you are giving them seed in the feeders (even if the same species of seed that the bird is looking for at that time of year) then you are filling them up on seed from plants that don't exist in that locale. You end up hurting the birds, and the plants of the local area. This is just one reason, but there are many more on this topic alone.

          I go into detail on this because it is part of the human problem that is destroying our only world. Lawn-mowing, packaging, and NPPS oh my.

          • YukonRadiation YukonRadiation

            I hear you about the birds but the feeders here stay full for the winter months anyway! i wonder why you would stress the radiation is not doing or causing the low bird numbers? i have been where i live for some time and have been used as a point for the yearly bird count and have notice a major drop here. we have no industrial or land clearing , things in the air from every where else for sure. so when do you think we can blame the radiation for some thing going on? really when will it become the answer to additional events and die-offs in the last couple years? when migrations change or come in very small numbers is one thing , but when local year round birds start dropping off with radiation number 3 and 4 times higher it must be taken into consideration ?

            • MoonlightEmpire MoonlightEmpire

              I'm not saying that radioactive materials aren't involved, but that going by a population count as the only evidence is not proof of corelation. For instance, huge flocks of hundreds–to thousands–of geese can be wiped out in a single season. Parking lots are notorious for killing geese because they come in to land on them, thinking it is water and subsequently are injured or killed.

              Look at the satellite images of your area on goog maps. Look at the closest city…and the closes suburb/housing development. Notice anything? Death. The Land of Scorch. Cities and towns paved in ashes (literally, ashes=concrete).

              I didn't understand your last sentence, but if you're saying that you are also getting high rad readings in your area…you're getting close-er to a corelation…but it's still far away. Birds fly great distances. The birds you DON'T see in your yard may actually be at one of your neighbors'. Point is: Too many variables.

              This isn't Nuke-Sympathy…but quite the opposite. I want to pin these effers down with the truth. It's the only thing that really makes em squirm.

              P.S. I saw you posting a bit back in the day, good to see you're back. Do your best to be active in your locale to help us all abolish nuclear once and for all.

        • name999 name999

          yukon, the terrifying part for me would be the trapped feeling in the hospital, knowing you are
          getting big hit of radiation and not speaking the accepted language of the place = they think
          you are crazy. Twilight Zone has morphed into daily life. That is for real…scary.

    • Ontological Ontological

      My wife had a PET scan and pegged the GMC 300E 3x lol. She was ave of 50k+CPM for 36 hours. Nice dose I needed NOT in the condition I am in. They fail to think about anything but money. She was fine of course, they scared the hell out of her, jerking around an anomalous reading from a EKG for 6 months only to scintillate poison upon us both for zero results. Pathetic bunch these idiot docs of today are. Ok so money grubbing is idiotic to me to clarify. I know shame on me for thinking so small. SHAME on YOU for being THAT way ha ha!

    • MoonlightEmpire MoonlightEmpire

      This guy was great in the beginning of the incident…he was living in Japan (hope he isn't still) and was on top of things. He did a lot of good videos to help people understand what was happening with radiation and fallout.

      You made me think of him because he did a great video of japanese school children lining up outside for the X-ray truck to get their yearly physical exams for Tuberculosis.

      The important thing is that he got video of his geiger counter going off-scale every time the guy in the truck pushed the button. It goes to show that everyone around that truck was getting much more than a single x-ray…

      Here is his youtube:

      I wish he was still doing videos, but haven't seen a peep from him in a while.

  • Time Is Short Time Is Short

    'To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence.'
    – Friedrich Nietzsche

  • GQR2

    People are coming down with cancer all over the place. All over. The car dealership,the convenience store people are ill. everywhere. Yet all we get is the Cancer Industry. Many will be dying with no medical care our Insurance Train Wreck has seen to that. The Cesium has been here it keeps coming here it is very toxic and will do what they KNOW radiation does – maim,kill,mutate,destroy the food chain,kill helpful bacteria and decimate life as we know it. And if the one isotope is here they all are.

    The friends and people with the blank headlights are deer in the headlights or should i say sheeple. How can people respond when they have been conned and lied to,forcibly silenced,survielled in a world tilted toward NWO order corporate domination? We try to survive.

    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      “Life improves slowly and goes wrong fast, and only catastrophe is clearly visible.”
      – Edward Teller (Father of the H-Bomb)

    • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

      GQR2- I was just in a small mountain community and everywhere I went people were talking about coming down with cancer. My sister who is a non-believer said "wow…why are all these people talking about cancer."

      I am hearing more and more of these "cancer" stories everyday to the point it can no longer be considered anecdotal.

      YukonRadiation mentioned above about the dropping numbers of birds; they are dropping where I live and also insects.

      • Sol Man

        We were out on the patio last evening for dinner after I wiped all of dust from the chairs, table and so on. We did not see one insect or bird during the time that we were out there. I have seen very, very few birds at the local reservoirs, too.

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          Looks like some people/industry got a huge raise..thought we were already the most expensive health care system in the entire world?

          • name999 name999

            Obewan, the ACA is under attack by the TeaParty and the wealthiest 1%. They want to destroy the program entirely and do whatever they can to undermine a healthy medical care
            program for Americans. It will take years to address the inherent problems in the health care system in US. I gather you are not a fan of ACA, but even those who are realize there is much to do to make healthcare, which has been a huge mess far beyond "Obamacare" a trustworthy system. Many levels to it all.

            • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

              Nothing takes years and it was a very simple fix and ACA is neither simple or effective and did not solve the problem. I am still paying $1425.00 per month for me and my wife's healthcare which in essence was theft of her entire retirement and more.

              A better question for you to ponder since the entire country is paying for 2 complete governments 24/7, while only one is pretending to work. Please how much are all these grandfathered in health care benefits costing these many varied levels of government workers after they actually retire.

              Are all these people in the 2nd phantom retired government paying $1425.00 per month?


                the ACA was written by the insurance industry. The Obama administration had nothing to do with its creation. They only did as commanded by their controllers and pushed it through. Truth is, it started under the Clinton administration and was codified during the Bush administration. This is all about corporate fascism. Nothing more…

              • unincredulous unincredulous

                My doctor can't afford his dentist. He said that two hours of dental work cost him a weeks' pay. Poor man. I haven't seen a dentist in years, and had a cavity grow larger and larger till the whole tooth broke off. Now, I have a missing front tooth, with the root still in. A weeks pay? More like a years savings I need.

                We should start a donation pool to get our doctors taken care of. It would just gross me out to have a doctor with a missing tooth. I wouldn't want my doctor laughed at like I am.

                We should stop complaining about the cost of our doctors, and send them canned veggies, at least!

          • PurpleRain PurpleRain

            That chart is just more bull against the new health care system. This Obama care program is a huge help for many-many people and that Heritage foundation is just a republican-owned Koch-brothers front for more oil and nuke power. And, oh, by the way, the reason why our health care system is so expensive is because of all the rich greedy criminals like Rick Scott from Florida who was convicted of stealing medicaid funds and embezzlement them into his own business…scamming off the government instead of taking care of people!

            • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

              Not sure what you mean bull? Either the cost of Health Care went up or it went down.

              A single payer with the elimination of workers compensation across the board was the only solution. You are correct the government is being scammed 24/7, but then, it has always been scammed based on the complexity of the programs created by the lobbyists put in charge of writing the actual laws we must all follow.

              Higher Education is crushing the country…under higher increased costs for the services generated by/for those having/receiving such an education.

              The best crooks are the ones who wear the suits… 🙁

      • name999 name999

        newsblackout, I was helping a friend in his yard yesterday and am so discouraged by the looks of the flowers, trees and bushes. This is in Portland, OR. Lots of dry to muddy ground exposed when normally the green plants were always lush.

        Another year of bad looking roses on the horizon. Few birds and lots of tiny gnats but not much else yet.

        • Runningonlove Runningonlove

          Name999, just for the curious like me, are there frequent days of stratopheric aerosol geoengineering in your area? Aka "chemtrails"
          that's the persistent trails left by large jet aircraft, which over the course of time spread out into a milky fibrous-looking high altitude haze., Dane Wiginton's site, covers this topic well. He lives in northern California, and has seen significant damage to plants and trees in his area.
          And,I wonder what the interactions between the metallic geoengineering particles (aluminum, barium, strontium, titanium to name a few)
          and radioactive particles from Fuku, which have been circulating high in the global atmosphere since March 2011, would be?
          Whatever the specifics, you can probably bet that the effects are not good for our health, or the biosphere's health. This inter-relation is a topic I wish more wise people would investigate.

  • The FUKU catastrophic global plutonium train wreck is in open sight, but is being hidden completely.

  • Plutonium-238 From Fukushima Traveled Around The World – ‘Misleading’ Experts Said It Would Stay Close By, Or Did Not Happen; via @AGreenRoad

  • Total Fukushima Radiation Released Into Ocean, Air, Groundwater, Storage Tanks; via @AGreenRoad

  • dosdos dosdos

    It can't happen here. It can't happen here.
    Oh baby, it's important that you believe, bah bah bah bah, that it can't happen here.

    Frank Zappa

  • Obvious Obvious

    Whats that about the amounts being the important factor?!

    It's, as far as I know from everything I have learned from our nonukes mentors, the types of radioisotopes that are important!

  • NondiPloom

    Can someone tell me what Guy Rathbun, host was trying to say here?:

    "Speaking of the San Onofre nuclear plant, the reading for iodine-131 was much higher than what thought possible 5400 miles away from the site of the Fukushima accident."

    • wa6smn wa6smn

      I-131 has a half life of 8 days. You would expect most of it to decay away in the time it takes to go 5400 miles and dilute in the air mass. A high level means there was much more starting material that traveled faster and diffused less than expected. What were the actual measurements?

      • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

        wa6smn-you may the information here:
        The Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant, damaged by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11, 2011 released large amounts of I-131 into the atmosphere, which was assimilated into canopy blades of Macrocystis pyrifera sampled from coastal California.

      • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

        "You would expect most of it to decay away in the time it takes to go 5400 miles …"

        Not when it takes all of 3 to 4 days to hit the US west coast.

        It hits the eastern US by around a half life, meaning there is still
        plenty left over after that.

        Here is an easier way to think about it

        50% in 8 days
        25% in 16 days
        12.5% in 32 days
        6.25% in 64 days
        3.125% in 128 days
        1.56% in 256 days

        So the question is, what percentage are you comfortable with?

        Never mind that what one is comfortable with has no bearing on
        the actual health impact.

        It does what it does….rips up cells and DNA

        • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

          Too tired….botched the math…ignore previous post.

          Admin…delete if possible.

          Will fix later.

          • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

            Here is the correction
            (binary is very ingrained in my thought process, hence the miscalculation…my apologies)

            Earth circumference at 45th parallel is approx 17600 miles.
            The Fuku fallout takes 3 to 4 days to get to the west coast
            (some measurements indicated even less) so it is traveling at about 50mph to 70mph.

            decay days times around 45th
            50% 8 days .55
            25% 16 days 1.09
            12.5% 24 days 1.64
            6,25% 32 days 2.18
            3.125% 40 days 2.73
            1.56% 48 days 3.27
            .78% 56 days 3.82

            In 8 days it is getting close to western Europe.

            So in about 2 weeks, 25% of Fuku fallout has made it all the way around and back to Fuku.

            A month later the 2nd pass goes over Fuku at 6% left.

            Obviously this is a simplistic model.
            Yes, of course, it swirls all around.
            Yet we know that is does stay rather concentrated within a rather well defined band well above the equator and well below the Arctic Circle.

            But even if it was off by a factor of 2, the problem is still very "in your face".

            This is dealing with a half life of just 8 days.
            Think of the isotopes with half lives of years, let alone decades.

      • NondiPloom

        Thanks. Had he said what he should have, I would have understood it:

        'Speaking of the Fukushima iodine-131 reading taken at the San Onofre nuclear plant, it was much higher than what thought possible 5400 miles away from the site of the accident.'

        • Shaker1

          At Enformable, there is a 2-part series of a transcript of a talk given by the lawyer of Karen Silkwood, Garry Spence shortly after the TMI accident. Below are quotes from that article. I thought it appropriate in light of fireguyjeff's above comment.

          I would like to read from a very recent publication that was sent to me special delivery for this conference. It is by Dr. John Gofman, Professor of Medical Physics at the University of California at Berkeley. He helped to isolate the world’s first milligram of plutonium. He was the first witness in the Karen Silkwood case.

          “According to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,” it says here, “the dose to the public in the Three Mile Island so far is 1,800 person rems” – Is that what you have heard, all of you, 1,800 person rems? Man, that really gives us a lot of information. “A figure which we regard with extreme skepticism because it turns out there existed almost no monitoring system and because that estimated dose excludes a significant additional internal dose from the radioactive carbon-14 released.”

          “But based upon that – and then he sets out the formula,” he says, “There are indeed going to be at least 480 deaths from cancer.”


          • Shaker1

            Well, he also says, “It is a fraud to imply that a dose equivalent to just a few chest x-rays” – and that is what we were told over national television – “it is a fraud to imply that a dose equivalent to just a few chest x-rays to a million people would be safe. If you give low dose radiation to a lot of people, whether from nuclear power plants or x-rays or Mother Nature, you will kill just as many people as if you gave high dose radiation to just a few people.”

            And it says, “Provided the number of person rems is the same, it is not hard to understand” – now listen to this very difficult proposition, – “it is not hard to understand if you remember that six times two equals 12, but two times six also equals 12.”

            “It is medically impossible to prove that a particular cancer was caused by radiation even when the radiation dose is high since cancer can be induced by many agents. It is possible, however, to calculate the probability that a particular cancer was caused by radiation even when the radiation dose is high since cancer can be induced by many agents. It is possible, however, to calculate the probability that a particular cancer was caused by radiation if you know how much radiation dose was received.”


            • Shaker1

              Then he goes on to say, “When so-called compensation for radiation injury is at issue, it is an outrage for any attorney to argue there should be no compensation for radiation induced cancers simply because there can be no certainty that a particular cancer was radiation induced. That argument simply amounts to giving private and government polluters an open season on giving people cancer. Talk about a permissive society, we used to believe in severe penalties for killing people. At the very least, a 43% probability that a person’s particular cancer was radiation induced” – listen to this – “entitles the victim and his family to 43% of the so-called compensation.” A 99 percent probability, the victim to 99 percent of the so-called compensation…

              Sorry it's so long, but I thought it concise and important. It might satisfy questions, for instance in regard to fallout here on the west coast and other areas, with the understanding that these statements have already been given before a jury and judgement of their merit publicly decided.

              • Socrates

                Two of my favorite people: Gerry Spence, the lawyer in the deerskin jacket from Wyoming, and Dr. John Gofman.

                People forgot about the importance of Karen Silkwood so we suffer now. Gerry Spence foresaw that we would become wage-slaves. Even he did not understand that many would become unemployed debt-slaves. I have read all of Spense's books and have many tapes he recorded in the 1980s.

                • Shaker1

                  I'll admit to thinking of you, Socrates, as I read this. Another thing to take away in reading the piece (and I hope some do) is your constant effort to uphold belief in the justice system. I have never thought you were talking out of your hat while admit at certain times and in certain moods to agreeing with others that it may be a difficult proposition. We really have to ask ourselves how much our cynicism might hold us back from letting such a thing (the justice system) function as it was meant while keeping its problems unresolved that it might remain so broken. I'm a firm believer in non-coperation with things that I oppose (the fact that I'm damned skinny and broke and which my record and reputation in public life and in management positions might prove) and I sincerely believe that bitching is a valid method of dealing with things on a personal level, it should always be remembered that the work that needs to be done. Thanks for yours, and what I would think is a thick skin at times.

                  • Socrates

                    The justice system has not evolved to compensate victims in low dose exposures cases where injuries manifest decades later.

                    As with Fukushima, we all know that GE, Toshiba, Hitachi, Tepco, and many other companies played a role. We are all exposed to continuous doses which are poorly documented. Most of us do not have acute radiation illness. Your family doctor certainly is not saying you are sick from Fukushima. In ten years, they will. But there are so many other carcinogens and mutagens, it is still hard to meet the burden of proof on causality.

                    Avoid sugar, radiation, alcohol, tobacco, and hope that Fukushima does not kill us all in a few years. Carcinogens act synergistically.

                    There are two more class actions, one in New York and one in Japan. In five years, people will see the sharpest rise in cancers. The health system will be overwhelmed. The political system might be ready to recognize that there should be a market-share approach and a legal presumption that carcinogen-producers should pay, but I seriously doubt that. So they will.continue to get away with it.

                    • Shaker1

                      Socrates, the 2nd portion of the transcript talks of the case regarding punitive damages in regard to plant siting (right in tornado alley), security, safety and educational processes both publicly and worker-related, the experience and qualifications of plant management in the plant's daily operations as well as physical design. Sorry, I've little to no actual interaction with the judicial system outside of a couple of minor traffic tickets that required I appear, being busted for avoiding the draft (Yeah, I'm that old.), and a stint of jury duty (in which I was never called to sit) which impressed most with the fact that even after orientation and explanation of evidentiary procedures how few grasped what was discussed in the question period that followed. I just wished to point out that the avenue, though it may be narrow and pot-holed, is there and that, from what I've read, has been used with some success in the past.

                      Maybe you could take a quick look at part 2 and offer your thoughts? We may find it interesting. I would, anyway.

                • PurpleRain PurpleRain

                  After reading that two part article (which was excellent)…it occurred to me that I have a book by him, it's an excellent book, How to Argue and Win Everytime. .. I had just not known before that he was the Silkwood lawyer.


                thanks Shaker1. I was just explaining much of this to a friend via email, earlier today. Likely I'll be cut'n-pasting this material for her review…

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture


    Plutonium, Cesium, and 100's of other radioactive isotopes flowing to the U.S. and beyond.

  • Obvious Obvious

    Quite obvious Daniel Madigan is trying to keep folks from panicking. Leaves out hard data and provides opinion based on two spices and controlled information.

  • Obvious Obvious

    Species, two species

  • What illness of the mind must people have to lie about the threat?”

    well thats a long list!

    • hbjon hbjon

      Most of us here have the same problem. We lost peace of mind. Peace of mind resists those things that may rock the boat and cause a negative imbalance. Though there are more facts and figures on the other side, the mind resists them so that the authority of their former conclusions may remain in violet. Sir Francis Bacon.

  • MoonlightEmpire MoonlightEmpire

    Even the pres of the U.S. went on national tv telling everyone that there was nothing to worry about, and that whatever was released–if anything–would be dispersed and pose no danger. He went on to say that he didn't recommend any KI.

    There were literally millions–and potentially hundreds of millions–of people who acted on that information.

    In the future, he will be brought up on charges for this and other statements during this time period. He will use a defence based on semantics to cover his ass, but the truth is he deceived the world into a false sense of security that sentenced millions to nuclear-induced torment and death.

    And he is no different from those in the media and those who profess to be experts in the field who downplay and mis-inform…they are all responsible and will be held accountable. They sacrificed millions of people with their words.

    There is nothing more important than bringing an end to the creation of man-made radionuclides. Everything that anyone loves is destroyed by this industry. Everything anyone has worked for, ever, is all for nothing with the continuance of this technology in these ways.

    NPPs in their current state guarantee the extinction of AT LEAST humans. So if that's the case, what the hell are you paying taxes for? What are you going to work for? What is anyone doing that is so damned important?

    The answer is, nothing. No excuses.

    The universe plays hardball. DNA is paramount.

    • Runningonlove Runningonlove

      Well put, Moonlight! If we had one like you on every street corner, in every bar, and on every radio talk show, we might stand a holy ghost of a chance of pulling this world situation out of its kamikazi zombie remote control plunge into oblivion…

  • rogerthat

    ''the models … the models are good''.

    – well, they certainly have long legs and stamina, they have been on the nuclear catwalk for three years now and people are still transfixed.
    Do they have good figures? You tell me.

  • Sol Man

    I went to check the migration patterns but I couldn't find anything migrating. How was the goose count up in Horicon Marsh. WI, this past autumn? Or, the crane count for the festival in Monte Vista, CO, March 7-9, I wonder? Will try to check and report later.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "potentially other isotopes will cross the Pacific Ocean."

    How so?
    By direct dumping..
    Call it for what it is.

    (Video column] Fukushima Diary talks “Tepco washing off Plutonium to the Pacific, huge risk for the least effect”

    A huge risk for the least effect.
    TEPCO and cohorts have entered further in the realm of madness.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    PS..Ahh..but then..they've been drinking from Lady Judge's radioactive cup..

    • Runningonlove Runningonlove

      Reminds one of Revelation 17, and the great whore who fornicates with the kings of the earth, and is drunk on her golden cup full of abominations and filth. Yikes!

  • Propaganda alert for the Wall Street Journal:

    'A Radiation Reality Check' by Craig Nelson in the 'Review' section of the WSJ today.

    My rebuttal

  • Crickets Crickets

    Pick your poison…This video is more about global warming but includes discussion about geo-engineering and how the catastrophe unfolding would also include the failure of NPP's. It's one big cluster-frack and many of us living today will have front-row seats for the show.

    By the way, I shared this video on FB and one of my more religious "friends" immediately accused me of wearing a tin foil hat and falling for the global warming scam. I responded by asking him if he believed the story of Noah's Ark. Needless to say, the discussion ended abruptly.

    • Crickets Crickets

      Not trying to pick on religion here. I respect people's beliefs. Just pointing out that sometimes there's kind of a double standard with some people's religious beliefs.

      • unincredulous unincredulous

        Yes. I remember years back, at a party, I heard my friend's mom shout, "Bless me, Father, for I have sinned!" in a very sarcastic tone. Drunk and drunker at the party everyone was.

        Years later, my friends' sister told me that her mother's friend ran over and killed her daughter (my friend's nephew) while backing out of the driveway under the influence. My friend's sister, grieving over her loss at a chance meeting in a grocery years later, said that her mother would not even testify against her friend for killing her grandson. She feels that she is truly living in hell.

        I am no longer friends with my old friend because he is too much like his mom, and is a really evil man (from his own mouth) I also heard him toasting a drink to 911. Like it was a good thing.

        I still can't get over their, my, and everyone's double standards and the doublespeak that consumes many, while others choke on it. Duality and lying is ubiquitous in our nature.

        Some have overcome. A toast to THEM, especially to the unemployed nuclear whistleblowers.

    • name999 name999

      crickets, Dr. Guy MacPherson is one of the best speakers on the predicament we are in that I have
      heard ever! I love that rather than trying to give some false sense of hope about fixing the
      ginormous environmental problems, he talks about being awake now, being good to each other and
      to the world around us. Thanks for posting that link.

      • PaciFistic PaciFistic

        name999……..time for just 1 quik word but Dr McPherson I read was very recently discussing reality of coming extinction due to climate change on, of all places, Canadian mainstream broadcasting — CBC. Canada, you might know, under Stephen Harper (yeah, he got a majority) dumped the Kyoto Protocol and is about to OK the Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipeline project to ship tar sands crude to China from the Pacific northwest coast. Expect serious First Nations protests on this beyond just civil disobedience once groundbreaking starts. There might be a shift in that scenario if Obama allows Keystone XL, because then that opens way for Alberta crud to move southward. Meanwhile Canadians are slowly getting the message on Fukushima.

        Regardless of informed perceptions, actions taken, whatever, none of that is likely to make any difference to what's going on with overall warming, accelerating acceleration trends now best seen in the Arctic regions!

        Time Is Short….we will need to be in that space where you have that break at the bottom of your 'enso'…at one with timelessness!

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Ya think! 🙂

  • Ontological Ontological

    Tenured = NOT to be trusted. Simple formula. Simple solution. OVERTAKE these bastards NOW!

    • Socrates

      Fukushima can be compared to the effects of above-ground testing plus TMI and Chernobyl, at least. Is is an ELE? Not unless there are hydrovolcanic explosions of sfp incidents plus other catastrophic events there. Rather, mortality and morbidity rates will climb. We will see an increase in the rate of mutations. Sterility, miscarriages, stillbirths, cretinism, immunological problems, learning disorders, etc.

      Fukushima will harm a large part of the Pacific foodweb. Starvation will follow. Loss of phytoplankton will tip climate change. Flotsam that is convergent with radionuclides will arrive on our beaches.

      We can survive this…. for quite some time. Things will never be the same. Sea mists will carry invisible radionuides 1,000 miles inland. The economy will never recover.

      There is WIPP and Hanford as well as others that will contribute to the suffering.

      • itsanuclearwar

        What about the next nuclear "accident" and the one after that? Fuku and WIPP are just the beginning. Why would the US accept nuclear waste from Russia and Japan when we can't even deal with our own? We are being set up, here in north America. The writing is on the wall.

      • unincredulous unincredulous

        I agree with itsanuclearwar. Fukushima itself may not be an ELE, but the nuclear INDUSTRY may well be the cause of one soon. Carrington Event. Accidental nuclear bomb detonation high in atmoshpere. The resulting massive scale of nuclear plant meltdowns. The following evacuation and die off of nuclear first responders. The subsequent meltdowns of all northern hemisphere nuclear plants. The subsequent full evacuation of the northern hemisphere.

        At the least it will probably be an ELE event for our quality of life.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Dismal.. 🙁

    • Sol Man

      It truly is that. My thinking has been not been joyous since I just recently finished a book that had been in my small collection for many years, Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee, however, the current problems in the world as evidenced here at Enenews has dulled my enthusiasm for some years. Witnessing genocide is difficult stuff, especially when we realize that it is us in the cross hairs.

      The video with Dr. Guy MacPherson was interesting with his message of do no harm; is always appropriate. I might add to turn out the lights, and leave the car at home as much as possible.

      We need a Hippocratic Oath for politicians and appointees, me thinks. Good night now!

      • unincredulous unincredulous

        If they had a Hippocratic oath, let's hope they do better than doctors do with it.

        Doctors are always messing with my mind, not to mention my body.

        My last doctor told me that he never lets any oil into his body. I said, "What about olive oil, it's supposed to be good for you!" He replied, "It's not olive oil after you heat it."

        That was strange, since he was prescribing that I take fish oil supplements.

        I was asked by my doctors if I was happy. I said, "Not really. It's ok, I have plenty of reasons for not being happy." So I was sent to see this psych guy, or counselor or whatever." I told him about the reasons, including that George Bush is a lying @%#$$#%, to which he replied, "George Bush DID lie to us." Either I won my argument, or he was baiting me, so I just stopped. Can I go now? On the way out the door, I was given a bottle of Anti depressant pills, to which I had previously been prescribed years before. I took them, and on arrival at my home, used them to fill my trash bag.

        I have been given high blood pressure medicine,stopped taking it, and was later told that I don't have high blood pressure. I was told I was pre diabetic and given medicine. I stopped taking it, it made me feel bad, along with the blood pressure medicine. Later, a lab result came back saying my body's ability to process blood sugars was "normal."

        So, a Hippocratic Oath might not do much good. Like the swearing in ceremony of our president, it is only as…

        • unincredulous unincredulous

          My last doctor also told me never to take a bath. He said never do that. He said I should take a SHOWER. "What's wrong with taking a bath?" I asked. He told me to think about it…

          First the water is clean, then you sit down and put your ASS in it… (No duh).

          I wonder if he swims in the Pacific Ocean. Think about it…

          First the water is clean, then you sit your nuclear industry in it…

          • unincredulous unincredulous

            … —analogy or parody from article above—> I think what you’re (the doctor) [was] seeing is the computer models assume that ass particles are uniformly distributed in the air or water and therefore get transported across the bathtub. In reality there are particles that are not broken up evenly. It’s not like sugar dissolving in water. It’s more like particles that are suspended in water, and also there’s particles in the air, that cause local hotspots or high readings — much higher than the overall plume (fart) which seems a much more homogenous or uniform mixing. The computer models are good but they don’t account for the hotspots that people sometimes detect.

            My doctor must have detected a hotspot and took precautions, which I can appreciate. Too bad the nuclear proponents are not proactive…

            • bo bo

              uni ROFLMAO!!!!

              Yes…for some reason I'm up at this odd hour

              • unincredulous unincredulous

                Hi, Bo.

                Yeah, me too. My reason is I went to a nature park this morning after getting up at three AM and staying up to see what a beautiful spring day it was here in Kentucky. Then off to the park to take photographs. I'm really bored with going to that park and taking pictures there, but today was different. (somewhat)

                I stopped at Walmart and before going in, I just walked around in the grass along a ditch. It seemed so strange not freezing my butt off outside. At the park, I was happy to harass an ant with a macro lens, just knowing that the earth was not dead, I guess. Flowers were popping up. Wild trillium and Mayflower were abundant at the park, more than usual. Some of the trillium had deformed leaves and flowers which reminded me of the horrorshow, but most of them were not unusual. Birds singing, squirrels, and I even took a picture of a tick crawling on my arm. OH! LIFE! I'm glad there are no such thing as snowticks. Slept until just a few hours ago. The above article linked to Radchicks article on CV was good. Its all good. (except when it's not) It's spring! My car was hot when I got back to it at the park. That's different.

  • HoTaters HoTaters

    Went out for lunch at a traditional Chinese restaurant yesterday, serving authentic Chinese food. There was a lot of seafood on the menu, including delectable sea vegetable and shrimp dishes and dim sum. Hundreds of people sat happily eating away all around us.

    The seafood was delectable but we wouldn't touch any of it. The wait staff acted like they thought we were a bit odd.

    I feel SO sorry for all the uninformed Asian people and Pacific islanders who don't know the danger eating all that seafood poses to them. I'm sure they are eating it week in and week out. The Asian markets are loaded with seafood. It just breaks my heart.

  • bo bo

    HT I miss it too.
    I know I sound glib here but it broke my heart to see my father off at the airport.
    All I could say was –

    Me: 'papa, don't go through the body scan. Opt for pat-down.'

    My father: 'Oh really? Why?'

    Me: 'Radiation'

    My father: 'Oh, thanks for letting me know. I will do that.'

    The least I could do. 🙁

  • Sol Man

    Wonder what percentage of people totally gave up flying? Now with flight 370 missing without a trace more people have cause for concern.

  • Karlin

    I had sex with a computer model last night. I think she under-estimated my X values {X = time, and nobody knows Y]

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    I am not flying…we will let MIkey try it.

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