Nuclear Engineer: Even worse news at Fukushima plant — Radioactive water has formed pathway and is flowing straight into Pacific Ocean (AUDIO)

Published: January 31st, 2014 at 4:00 am ET


Chris Harris, former licensed Senior Reactor Operator and engineer, Jan. 30, 2014:

At 36:30 in

At 45:45 in

From Jan. 28, 2014: [intlink id=”scientist-back-from-japan-ive-seen-data-showing-highest-radioactivity-levels-in-ocean-that-have-been-observed-recently-nhk-radioactive-waste-may-be-leaking-directly-from-the-buildings-not-j” type=”post”]NHK: Nuclear waste may be leaking “directly from buildings” not only going into groundwater via tunnels (VIDEO)[/intlink]

From Jan. 28, 2014: [intlink id=”scientist-back-from-japan-ive-seen-data-showing-highest-radioactivity-levels-in-ocean-that-have-been-observed-recently-nhk-radioactive-waste-may-be-leaking-directly-from-the-buildings-not-j” type=”post”]Scientist back from Japan: I’ve seen data showing highest cesium levels in ocean that have been observed recently (VIDEO)[/intlink]

Full broadcast available here

Published: January 31st, 2014 at 4:00 am ET


Related Posts

  1. NBC Nightly News: Urgent situation after frightening discovery at Fukushima — Planned ice wall shows Tepco is grasping at straws and can’t stop plant leaking like a sieve — Now almost 900 straight days of contamination flowing in Pacific (VIDEO) August 11, 2013
  2. Expert: People on West Coast right to be concerned about Fukushima plume — Things “could get much worse” — Lots of radioactivity flowing into ocean — Gov’t not testing water or fish (AUDIO) December 1, 2013
  3. NBC Nightly News: Worry at Fukushima plant — Scientist reveals “increased” amounts of radioactive groundwater have started flowing into ocean — Contamination levels in marine life to start rising — “Other countries are worried” (VIDEO) September 25, 2013
  4. Unpublished Data: Plutonium levels ‘slightly elevated’ in Pacific after Fukushima — Scientist: It’s ‘most likely’ flowing from plant into ocean — 2.5 trillion Bq of plutonium released to air in four days after 3/11, almost all blown out to sea (AUDIO) November 26, 2013
  5. AP: Tepco admits radioactive water is flowing into Pacific from Fukushima plant — AFP: Experts warn of effects on humans; “Fears of ocean contamination” July 22, 2013

267 comments to Nuclear Engineer: Even worse news at Fukushima plant — Radioactive water has formed pathway and is flowing straight into Pacific Ocean (AUDIO)

  • Flapdoodle Flapdoodle

    I figure it is coming out so fast and with such force it isn't going to 'glom" onto anything.

    • AlexfromNB

      If the coriums have left the buildings deep under the plants, why continue throwing massive amounts of water on the remains? What are they cooling? If the water were shut off to avoid further contamination, what would happen?

      This just seems logical to me. I would greatly appreciate imput from some smart guys who understand this far better than I do.

      • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

        It must be isolated from the air as much as possible. Not just for cooling.

        • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

          So it comes down to choosing between contaminating the ocean or contaminating the atmosphere.

          Assuming the flow of groundwater from uphill of the plants could be diverted, what would happen if the holes were plugged from the top? As I understand it the corium would get very, very hot (~3k C) but they would not burn without oxygen and would not explode as the neutron flux is already as dense as it's going to get (assuming a single solid mass that's already self-sustaining).

          But at least the ocean and air would not get any worse. Somebody running the show needs to stop thinking of profit or reputation and start thinking about lives ruined, now and in the foreseeable future.

          • Time Is Short Time Is Short

            "Lives ruined"?

            'Sick Kids Denied Specialty Care Due to Obamacare in Washington' (the State)

            "Administrators at Seattle Children's today said they predicted this would happen, and it's even worse than they expected," says the local news anchor. "Patients being denied specialty treatment at the hospital by insurance providers on the Washington health benefits exchange. Children's filed request on behalf of 125 of their patients. Of those, they say they got only 20 responses, eight of which were denials. Dr. Sandy Melzer says all this comes after reassurances of certain unique specialty cases would still be covered."

            Dr. Sandy Melzer says, "Well, some of the patients who were denied are ones who clearly would fall into that unique category. A two-year-old with new significant neck mass that was being evaluated for infection or malignancy, an older child with a chronic severe medical condition requiring multidisciplinary care here, a baby that had a skull abnormality."


            Pay very close attention to the symptoms in the children who the insurers are refusing to pay for – radiation exposure symptoms.

            Here it comes, fast and hard. Kill the kids first.

            • Please check my blog post today on findings of a survey of Fukushima preschool children

              I cannot post link on my ipad

              You are right about killing kids first

              • onedman

                I acquired PTSD at age 9, now 62, those complaints can also be part of PTSD, that is not to say that radiation exposure isn't involved but that there are co-factors involved…trauma at an early age has very strange effects when compared to when it is acquired by an adult…

                • Granted – I've read Anna Freud's defense of the ego – but dizziness is not a sign of psychological anxiety I've ever encountered in the literature on childhood anxiety disorders.

                  Additionally, a colleague described a 'dizzy flu' going around late July 2013 after the big fire on the cams, xenon and iodine detections, and spiking radnet readings in my area.

                  I really think this survey is telling. Too bad the measurement questionnaire was unlikely to have included nose bleeds, which would have been even more telling

        • If it is already underwater – groundwater or tidal salt water – then there is no need to keep pouring more onto it. Stopping the additions would produce only marginally greater vapor releases to the atmosphere, and those would be short term and not huge because the system will seek to stabilize itself. Continuous additional water most likely does increase the releases to the ocean. Deal is, they'd need to know with some degree of accuracy where the corium flows are now located, and whether or not any of them are/are not under water.

        • 21stCentury 21stCentury

          Yes, I agree Syke ; It must be isolated from the air as much as possible. Not just for cooling.

          To clarify: Some of the fuelrods in the reactor cores are still not fully melted down into a corium blob.. and these remaining rods must be kept underwater to prevent further rad-fires that spew nasty rad-steam into the atmosphere..

          Aside from building a much bigger massive secondary breakwater sealed impoundment seawall, we must also finish unloading the spent fuel pools, and the reactors themselves need to have a outer pool-wall built that can contain a water level above the remaining cores.

          The whole project boils down to "water management on a massive scale".. it's like trench warfare in WW1, fall back and re-trench. There are many engineering strategies and methods that have not been implemented yet. Alaska has much more than 300million tons of graphene available, and graphene can be much more effective than zeolite for fully filtering/recycling/reconcentrating radwaste for proper disposal. Most folks are unaware that our technology is very good at mining uranium from seawater, nearly 15% of Japan's nuke inventory was originally extracted from seawater.

      • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

        You need to also remember the term "auto-catalytic oxidation" when we talk about who and what went south. FOIA Docs reveal truth about the zircoloy.

      • Some corium is still in the remaining reactor vessels. Some has left and cooled on the lower concrete slab, some had burned through.

        Cool, lift, separate. Easy in concept. Tough for a corrupt bureaucratic bankrupt monopoly

    • Guess what is coming out of that 'leak'?

      Plutonium Is The Most Toxic, Radioactive, Man Made Element, With No Natural Biological Role In The Human Body; via @AGreenRoad

    • Glom is a technical term in nuclear physics, not well understood by laypersons such as ourselves.

    • unincredulous unincredulous

      more glom and dom

  • Machomaker Machomaker

    Zeolite Plan To Be Tested At Fukushima Daiichi
    A 20 meter deep hole will be dug and filled with zeolite to test the ability of the material to absorb the strontium 90 leaked into the groundwater. One of the main concerns has been how salt content would impact the zeolite’s ability to absorb the strontium 90 effectively. This test section should give a good experiment using some of the worst water at the plant.

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Thank goodness they're going to try something that might work. Really hoping it does. Supposedly (I'm told) zeolite in and of itself isn't enough to absorb/adsorb or neutralize all the radioisotopes (and correct me please if I've used the wrong terminology).

      When I used zeolite (horse stall absorbent material for keeping stalls fresh) in my garden, almost all the mutations in my fruits and vegetables stopped occurring.

      It's a different matter, of course, when used near the reactors, but I was very impressed with what it did around my home and garden. Things quit dying, too, once the zeolite was in the soil.

      • There are lots of things that could work, but they all cost lots of money to do properly..

        This disaster should be costing Japan TRILLIONS of dollars.

        Instead, they are pinching pennies and their budget is a miniscule fraction of that, which is why they are using baling wire, plastic garden hoses, duct tape, leaking used tanks, and rube goldberg affairs. Then they have gangsters in charge of the labor force.

        Good luck with that plan.. what chance do they have of success?

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Wondering if they have thought about using clay materials in some kind of solution, suspension, or unflocculated clay. Maybe the salt might have an anti-flocculating property?

      Emulsified clay maybe, like what people can ingest? It can be purchased in a bottled form — bentonite clay.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        MachoMaker, thanks for the link. It would be nice to go to the Simply Info. site and join the discussion. There are a lot of brainiac types here; maybe some of you can give input there. Have seen some really good ideas and suggestions here.


      I remember long ago hearing Arnie Gunderson suggest the zeolite idea. It seems that somebody is listening now.

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      Then what do you do with the contaminated zeolite?

      • Shaker1

        "Then what do you do with the contaminated zeolite?"

        That question is pertinent and posed before, but at least the zeolite is something somewhat easy to collect. Right now, they're just trying to grab handfulls of water. I've never been very successful doing that. It always seems to run out between my folding fingers, and I'm left with a small bit in the pocket of my palm. At any rate, with the zeolite there's some measure of control (as long as someone there doesn't get the bright idea to burn the stuff) and can be sequestered without leaking all over the place. But, personally, I think that allowing some portion to leak into the sea was an early and ongoing part of 'the plan'. I admit it's a huge undertaking, and natural degradation (half-lives) is going to be the ultimate solution, but I can't understand allowing this to become an emblem of what some might think is already a failed society. History won't treat one well with that attitude.

        And AlexfromNB, my understanding is that what remains of the corium is not in a configuration in which explosive criticality is possible. Seems to me adding water to the great natural flow or the action of the tide is doing the same as allowing it to explode, though. The action they've opted for isn't so entertaining or somewhat spontaneous, but it's just as effective without the frightening fireworks. Either way, each or both method eventually ends up in the water at some point.

        Ice Nine, anyone?

        • Shaker1

          Simplyinfo today reported that NHK reported that there is going to be tests of a zeolite wall idea they (simplyinfo) submitted to the IRID, an agency tasked with taking these responses and developing working plans.

          "A 20 meter deep hole will be dug and filled with zeolite to test the ability of the material to absorb the strontium 90 leaked into the groundwater."

          Apparently, they are concerned that salt will impair the zeolite's abilities to absorb the target material (Sr90). My personal thought about that is that any absorbtion of the target material is welcome, but I guess if what is absorbed is 95% salt it won't be very effective except in unreasonalbe quantities. I would wonder if salt can be effectively removed without removing the Sr90 from the zeolite, thus being able to recycle what might be contaminated material, but it seems in any event handling of contaminated material is part of the process. Again, I believe in some respects the scale of the whole thing is rather lost upon us. Almost any action is going to be unprecedented. I can envision a process in which fresh zeolite is injected into the bottom of the mass and collection of tainted material from the top as it's displaced.

          Within the cited link are other links to the NHK report of the trial attempt.

  • weegokiburi weegokiburi

    The biggest holes have been and always will be in TEPCo's fairytales

  • James Tekton James Tekton

    There is something very diabolical in this plan to fuku the whole world. Any simpleton can see it.

    Little by little this is being more and more talked about. One can vision some day where the talking head glove puppets will say; THIS IS AN EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT. DO NOT EAT ANYTHING GROWN ON THE WESTERN HALF OF THE USA, OR EAT ANYTHING FROM ANY OCEAN ANY MORE. YOU HAVE LESS THAN FIVE YEARS TO LIVE.

    And you know what, the majority will not listen, nor will they care. It is already too late for…the majority.


    • James Tekton James Tekton

      Yeah, more optimism, for sure.

      It comes from the strangeness in this mind control scheme and the anger it stirs within, and that so many are so willing to swallow this twilight zone madness from the lagoon. All they want to do is stare at the TV, or worse, the mini-tv ipod. Now-a-days we call these kids, SCREENAGERS! The rest, Sauronnated.

      Babylon controls and keeps most of the nation ignorant, and stupid with the mind controlling phone/ipod system. Works so good, people do not even know how to sit down and hand write a letter, stick it in the envelope, address it, stamp it, and then take it to the mail box anymore. People are too lazy to do that. How stupid has this nation become, and why does it seem more and more deserving of the fate that is upon it?

      OH gawd, here comes the cynicism to add to the optimism. Time to go watch some South Park to mellow out.


    • utahruss utahruss

      Well some of us are getting together and developing solutions.

      Time for a little less talking and a lot more action-elvis i think

      New Google+ community here. Come over, bring your knowledge, your experience your energy to developing solutions and strategies for adapting and overcoming! You still are ALIVE aren't you??

    • mairs mairs

      Why on earth would everyone only have five years to live? Is that just a number picked out of a hat? I'm sorry but the reality is bad enough without thinking the planet is going to be wiped out in five years.

      • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

        I'm surprised it's lasted this long. If I had known, I would have taken better care of myself 😉

      • jan

        mairs thumbs plus +++

      • It greatly depends on the actual state of the Pacific ocean. It's hard to tell how bad it really is, but after all we have seen I suspect there is not much life left.
        And anyone who thinks that would not affect the whole planet is a fool. Hundreds of millions of people depend on the Pacific directly in terms of food and water supply. Imagine what will happen once they find out what's going on – there will be a migration wave like man has never seen before. All those people will flee, and the rest of the world will try to keep them out. By all means, even thermonuclear war.
        And radiation will be continuously distributed on with the oceanic currents and by hydrologic cycle and soon people will fight and lead wars over the few remaining unradiated water and food. A true Armageddon. Thus my profile name.
        Regarding the time frame: I would subscribe to the idea that we don't have more than five or ten years at most after the ocean is dead. Depending on how long they can cover the mess up, life may go on in the western world for maybe two years as before, but at some point in time the truth will break free and the ugly last chapter starts.

        • JMR

          I agree that it is more likely that a food chain collapse is going to cause massive social and economic collapse. Food shortages are always a precursor to unrest more so than any other reason. We are going to witness it and it won't matter how that event is caused – be it radiation, pollution, over fishing etc. Radiation won't be blamed directly, but we all know it is at least contributing to the decline of the oceans' populations.

          • or-well

            Is it three meals away from revolution
            or nine meals away from anarchy;
            both quotes about the situation
            of disruption in a society
            when folks act with desperation
            because their children are hungry.

            • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

              An old friend of mine was a Navy Seal back in the late 70s.

              He talked about the NBC training classes they were put through.

              He also noted that most of them wondered why Navy Seals needed to know what radiation burn victims looked like, among many other horrid details.

              One thing he also noted was how much the Navy pressed them on the idea that America is just 3 meals away from full on total anarchy (not the philosophical version!)

              Look at how many "People Of WalMart" will fight over something that is simply "On Sale", yet in limited (perceived) quantity.

              • or-well

                fireguyjeff, I've also heard it said as three suppers, or any specific meal, meaning three days without food.

                IMO it would be a little longer, but not much.
                A lot depends on other circumstances.

                When the "Black Friday" crowd comes to your kitchen, you don't want to be home.

                • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff


                  I think 3 days is a better estimate.
                  Yet that is not much buffer for TSHTF.

                  Even a week is a short window!

                  On another note, it was not long ago that the average time an item spent in a retail store in the US was 72 hours.

                  With Just In Time distribution methods, that number is now down to closer to 24 to 36 hours, depending on what the item is.

                  What will be a rude wake up call is when (not if) a significant portion (>20%?) of the population figures out that Pacific seafood is a radiological risk.
                  The younger you are the more you will care.

                  Bioaccumulation in to meat/dairy will be another show stopper in terms of economic impact.
                  Look at how short of a time it took for the SFO dairy supply to get to >3X the EPA drinking water limit!!

                  The question that looms bigger in the back of my mind is what happens when 10% of the population realizes that retirement planning is pointless.
                  The economic domino effect will be profound.

                  And for that matter…
                  Career planning (college? what for?)
                  family planning (why bring a child in to this mess?)
                  performance reviews on the job (why excel?)
                  credit card balances (why worry?)

                  The social values shift will be sobering when one is left with the idea of years of life left instead of decades.

                  And all of this from a profoundly delusional large scale approach to simply boil water.

                  So much for economy of scale!!!

                  • or-well

                    fireguy, I think it's those very implications you mention that trouble TPTB and contribute to the scale of the cover-up, not just of Fuku but all the consequences of the whole nuke industry.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Are they doing soil do we know it's not glomming in the gloaming.
    Run only part of the issue.
    There are concerns of upwelling of the aquifer.

  • FXofTruth

    As I read updates such as this one which is more horrendous than yesterday's updates, I am struck with a simple fact based on the number of people who comment on this site – only a handful of intelligent people are aware of the severe danger this situation represents AND the 100s of millions of people who will be most affected by this disaster are the LEAST informed about it!

    There should be 10s of thousands upon thousands of comments on sites like this one. The masses are oblivious and obviously preoccupied with Sports, non-reality TV shows, Facebook, Twitter, and a host of other distractions that are designed to remove self-preservation as an overriding concern! Maybe it's because of the way the masses have been educated. They have been told to trust all in authority and everything in the mainstream news because, the majority of the Public has "no pulse" on this unfolding event!

    The hopelessness of this nuclear disaster is bad enough but when you add the 100's of millions of people that are and will be DIRECTLY affected by Fukushima, one can only feel that all is lost. The grocery stores are STILL selling Alaskan fish and crabs; California vegetables and fruits; sushi and seaweed from Japan with nothing "Publicly" tested by governments for fear of creating fear in the Public. The government's attitude is, "The Public will find out soon enough when they start dropping dead from radiation poisoning."

    At least a tiny minority of intelligent peopleare paying…

    • bluetick

      Just Fyi where I live there is not much anything else to eat,, most is from Kalifornia.. I look at the label try whole foods but nada only place I find non kalifornia is farmers market…thats where about 90% of non meat comes from…again fuk could not have been placed any better to creat this mess.. almost like it was put there on purpose…

    • Squirrel Squirrel

      People read articles like this:

      …and are like, well I trust scientists and they say we're not at risk. So we must not be at risk!

      Also we have mainstream media claiming no-harm as well:,0,4048380.story#axzz2ryidKRvA

      And CBS reporting an old video on 1/27/14 with Seth Doane in Reactor 4, as if it were recent, as if the radiation inside wouldn't kill them all. Deceitful. Massive down-playing.

      You know? People see this stuff and write it off. Or they haven't heard anything about Fuku since the beginning.

    • AlexfromNB

      I live in the LA area and I've been making quite an effort to spread the news and especially precautions. Ive found that the vast majority simply can't grasp the enormity of this problem. They don't understand the science. They can't understand how this affects the food chain. They just tune out and go into denial.

      I had a friend two weeks ago buy a bunch of Alaska crab for his family. Big bucks. I went with him and advised strongly against it. He said his family likes it, completely ignoring my counsel. Well, two weeks later some more grave news was announced about cesium and damage to sea life. He may have got the message too late! Another wealthy friend lives right on the bay. Won't change despite very real dangers. Says he's too old, doesn't care. He has grandkids and won't take their long term welfare to heart either! Beyond amazing! Would you stand in front of an out of control truck? Why won't they listen?

      I used to think most Americans were intelligent. No way. Many are just like cattle as they are going right to the slaughterhouse.

      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        I think most people intelligent or otherwise are simply in denial as it's a great swim until you reach shore. Or they simply don't want to bask in a situation with no end in sight and with very little solutions. JMHO

      • bo bo

        Cattle are smart and they know when they are going to slaughter, and resist, they just get prodded with pitchforks and tasers, or pushed by a bulldozer.
        There is no analogy that appropriately expresses how dumb humans are.

      • IMO the problem is as follows:
        Technology and science have made enormous progress during the past – say – two housand years. Yet, the human brain has not evolved structurally during the past ten or twenty thousand years. We are still driven by instincts and by millisecond decisions (Sabertooth tiger – duh ! – what to do ? Run or fight ?).
        And while or intellect nowadays allows us to invent phantastic stuff in terms of science and arts and everything, in the final run we only get the impression that our decisions are based on logical and scientific knowledge and projections. It fact, it isn't. We are simply incapable of taking decisions which go beyond the present. No matter what our intellect tells us about the consequences of any given thin in the long run, we will only take decisions based on the immediate effects. Thus, we are doomed to fail big time. Substainability is something we can grasp by intellect yet at the same time something we will never achieve. Period. Sorry to say so.
        In the end, it is good that humankind will disappear from the face of Earth. Me personal drive to fight on is not the survival of man. It is the survival of all the innocent creatures that are sentenced to share this planet with us. What we have already done to nature is beyond imagination. What makes nuclear power so special is that is has the potential to extinguish all kind of life from Earth, long after we have disappeared. And that is something I am not willing to let happen.

        • bo bo

          Morgen Fukugeddon

          'Sustainability is something we can grasp by intellect yet at the same time something we will never achieve. Period. Sorry to say so.In the end, it is good that humankind will disappear from the face of Earth…

          What makes nuclear power so special is that is has the potential to extinguish all kind of life from Earth, long after we have disappeared. And that is something I am not willing to let happen.'

          You expressed so succintly exactly how I feel about the situation.
          Many thanks.

          • Good morning 🙂
            Isn't it sad it always takes catastrophes for people of different parts of the world to congreate in significant numbers, living in and fighting for peace together ?
            Do you know the movie "Surviving Progress" by Martin Scorsese ? If you haven't seen it yet, you absolutely have to. It is dealing with exactly the problems. In fact, I even think the sabertooth tiger example is from this movie.
            EVERYONE WATCH THIS, please !

            • bo bo

              Omg that looks so good… I can't watch it now because of work but definitely putting it on my list (still have to finish syke's recommended film.. perfect, it's freezing in Boston right now… I'm watching movies all sunday) thanks again.

              • I'm just trying to the best I can :-).
                Another really sad "documentary" – from 1982 ! – is Koyaanisquatsi. As I was born in 1976 I didn't see it back then; to be honest, I only heard of it before about two years ago when a remastered 30 years anniversary edition came out on blu ray. That movie made me cry because watching it was like a repetition of everything I already felt to be wrong about our western civilization. Worse yet, I realized that we already were at the very brink of horrors back then, and that the only thing saving us from the catastrophe was the breakdown of the Warsaw Pact states. "Saving" in the sense of "buying another 30 years". We have reached that same point of no return again, only that this time, there won't be a lucky event preventing us from stepping and falling into the abyss of nightmares.
                The movie ends with words from the Hopi prophecies:
                "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
                "Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
                "A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
                It has a iconic soundtrack, made by Philip Glass, which alone makes the movie worth watching (listening).
                KOYAANISQUATSI – another must-watch for anyone caring for this planet.
                The title itself is from the Hopi language as well. Red more about it on Wikipedia:

            • Homolumina Homolumina

              I will, thank you Fukugeddon ! Good movies are a great "tool" to communicate and start a discussion…

          • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

            bo & Fukugeddon…I agree with both of you; before Fukushima I used to believe that humans could evolve into a more benevolent species, but the continued denial of the situation by people who would rather go shopping and get a pedicure, combined with a complete lack of empathy for what people/animals/the earth are going through in around the world as we destroy the biosphere, has shown me benevolent evolution is not possible on a grand scale.

            There is maybe .05 who are trying to understand the gravity of the situation.

        • Joe Ebslap Joe Ebslap

          If you consider that 33-45% of Americans don't believe in evolution, it is a huge obstacle getting them up to speed on the science of nuclear energy or climate change. Most go completely blank when confronted with any measure of nuclear contamination beyond the banana. Our scientific literacy is woeful.

      • JMR

        Alex. I often wonder about why people are so complacent in the face of adversity and their own detriment. And there are many reasons, but I think one of the main reasons is pain avoidance as an evolved survival mechanism. ELE's and fascist governments and wars, etc. are too painful to think about and since we as humans have evolved to avoid pain (like all species), most would rather put it out of their minds than think about what they need to do to help change the situation. It explains a lot in my mind.

        • earthsmith earthsmith

          @Bo….Disneyland?, I feel this explains dumb humans quite well.
          @Fukugeddon..fight or flight is more a reactionary defense mechanism. Instincts are knowing where to hunt, find fresh water and vegetation, knowing what herbs are medicinal and how to prepare. Tens and tens of thousands of years ago humans knew this without any technology or sciences. Humans lost this ability when the perversions of religion,politics and economies where thrust upon them and the continual dumbing down began. We need our instincts to save us. I never thought instinctively that any technology could save or serve this planet or humans but I AM just as guilty for using it. IMHO.

          • I fully agree. And I feel the same guilt. Then again it seems apparent that we have to use this technology now, otherwise we are lost for sure. People would never be able to organize like here without the internet.
            The peace movement brought this kind of inner conflict up with the proverb "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity." I sense that is essentially boils down to the exact same old question: is it ok to use violence against violence ? Is murdering the tyrant appropriate action ?

            • I also agree humans once had essential knowledge that has gotten lost and/or was taken away from us. Very sad.

              • earthsmith earthsmith


                • One essential capability that seems to have vanished in a huge number of people nowadays is empathy. I wonder how much less pain there would be in this world and how many of the devastating things we see might not be happening if everybody would learn to show and feel empathy again.

        • Very interesting hypothesis on pain JMR

      • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

        My father was a clinical psychologist.

        When I would offer rants (like your sentiments) he would calmly
        remind me….

        Intelligence and behavior do not correlate.

        Even in my late 50s I am constantly bewildered by the stupid choices I see very intelligent people making on a daily basis.

        • MochiMadness

          "Intelligent and behavior do not correlate". Absolutely. In my medical career, what I've seen is that the only time that people truly "get serious" is when whatever the problem is effects them directly, obviously, quickly and in lethal terms.

          Game Theory (Nash) explains the rest of the behavior vs. intelligence thing. Adam Curtis did a great series for BBC, one of which was "The Trap: F**k You Buddy"


          This behavior isn't new, unfortunately, it's just exacerbated because there are so many more people on this planet, coming into contact with one another, fighting for a little elbow room, some scraps, maybe a chance to have a little hope.

          The idea that people are "dumb" is wrong (and offensive) Uneducated, unskilled–yes. These are circumstances which can be rectified. How human beings behave depends on their location on Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs. If I'm starving and homeless, I am clearly not going to be overly concerned with whether that piece of salmon I scrounged came from the Pacific Ocean.

          Also, think of the "free market mentality". Fear makes people (yes, MAKES) do unimaginable things–to themselves and everything around them. Think of a drowning man. It's not in his best interest to harm a rescuer, but they do.

          • Game theory.. wonderful. Like it. It shows how bad the human brain can handle probabilities. And how much it sucks at generating correct estimates.
            The NY (?) newspaper war is a classic, as well as – one of my favourites – the duel of three under a special set of regulations.
            I'm sure Wikipedia has some entries on those… 😉

            • MochiMadness

              LOL! Never heard of a "truel" before! Sorry, I found that hilarious. As a woman (and scientist), I sit here "bewildered" and "befuddled" at why someone would actually expend an ounce of energy figuring that out. I'd rather be playing with my dog.

              On a more serious note, I'm having a problem with this parsing of every single iota of information coming out of Fuku–as in this direct flow to the ocean. There is this calmness in reporting it and analyzing it–as if measurement or documentation will change anything at all. Don't get me wrong-my whole job is accurately measuring dosages and medications, but another part of my job is measuring the state of the patient–and stepping in firmly and directly (I hope.) to effect a more positive outcome. (yeah. I know. Medical Mafia and all that. I still will save your life no matter what you call me.)

              I'm scare witless right now. Absolutely sick to my stomach–and people are arguing about who to sue? Really? This is beyond disturbing to me.

              While all of the argument about who is to blame, follow the money, what politician is in whose pocket–the earth dies…and us along with it.

          • MochiMadness

            Evidence is accumulating of direct effects on Alaskan mammals living on ice

            Did you listen to Buesseler's recent talk? He is getting worried.

            Preschool children in Fukushima prefecture are displaying signs of chronic exposure. I posted link in discussion forum.

            Effects are escalating and undeniable.

            • earthsmith earthsmith


              I personally know many well educated individuals who when presented with data or facts about past radiation exposure or the present nightmare still scoff at my pleadings or warnings. Just last night a co worker told me how she is going to prepare a huge salmon steak for her sweety . Yep from the pacific. She told i am overreacting besides they wouldn't let us eatunsafe food. Oh she has a university degree. And she has access. to the internet like so many.
              So I Fully Disagree Ther are DUMB PEOPLE BY THE MILLIONS!!

          • Homolumina Homolumina

            Thank you so much Mochimadness for that piece of important reality check, that I too, way too often overlook… do you see causal patterns ?

  • eatliesndie eatliesndie

    "Lo and behold, there is water just pouring out from the containment vessel."
    Wow. Bugger me.

  • dosdos dosdos

    Stick a banana in the hole.

  • Ontological Ontological

    Be prepared for the worst, then when it's not the worst you settle for the difference gladly. And when an outcome is worse than worse, well at least you were prepared.

    These people had no batteries, no fuel, and no money to help when it happened. TEPCO was prepared for nothing, and still 3 years later are still getting nothing done. This is the new normal for conducting business I guess. Screw up totally and make the tax payers responsible.

    • Well, this is probably why they are hauling ass on the ice wall.

      "What we are about to witness is the most enormous and expensive nuclear experiment that’s ever been attempted, creating the largest man-made section of frozen earth on the planet, that has to be maintained for possibly hundreds of years, with no idea whether or not it will work. And, no idea whether it will further contribute to the backing-up, subsidence, and groundwater issues, that already occurred from failed ice wall experiment number 1, though I’m guessing it will. And all this is happening concurrently with the never-before-attempted-damaged-spent-fuel-removal-project going on at rickety-reactor number 4, but that’s a whole other story."

  • bluetick

    great news.. I saw pelosi and frankenstein on tv and I am sure their faces are filtering most of the radioactivity as it enters USA

    • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

      bluetick…maybe Peolsi injects all that restyline (sp) in her face thinking it will stop the radiation coming in from the west.

  • Machomaker Machomaker

    At the beginning of the catastrophe I often saw Photos of different dyed water elutions but now the coverage goes to simpler recordings.

    The water could contain gases, esp. radioactive noble gases (like neon (Ne), argon (Ar), krypton (Kr), xenon (Xe), radon (Rn)) Rather unlikely but for the sake of completeness we will mention them here. These can be driven out from the water by heating it to boiling temperature as hot liquids dissolve less gases than cold ones (with solid solubles, e.g. salts, it is vice versa with the rare exception of kitchen salt –sodium chloride- which hardly changes in solubility from almost zero to 100 degrees centigrade)

    Plutonium (IV) oxide, usually referred to as the plutonium dioxide is chemically stable oxide of plutonium. It is a crystalline yellow-brown solid with a high melting temperature. Plutonium dioxide is very reactive and is almost unaffected by water or salt water.

    Compounds and chemistry
    Plutonium compounds
    Five liuids in glass bottles: violet, label Pu(III); dark brown, label Pu(IV)HClO4; light purple, label Pu(V); light brown, label Pu(VI); dark green, label Pu(VII).
    Various oxidation states of plutonium in solution

    At room temperature, pure plutonium is silvery in color but gains a tarnish when oxidized.[28] The element displays four common ionic oxidation states in aqueous solution and one rare one:[14]

  • whereslora

    The bombing we get for the bombing we gave. Karma sucks.

  • corium pudding corium pudding

    "They put a boat down in the bottom of the Taurus…"

    That's a lot of Bull.

  • tsfw tsfw

    We all end up at a grocery at least one a week yes? What if every time we did our groceries, we stood by the fish section and handed out a pamphlet? I'm thinking it could be powerful in the sense of timing. Even if they don't listen right away, they will be left wondering. It will be at the back of their mind's while cooking it, while eating it, while digesting it …Title the pamphlet FOOD FOR THOUGHT. Yup I'm on it.

    • clamshellernh clamshellernh

      We could take a page from the anti gmo orgs
      We had small stickers in day glow orange , a little bigger than a stamp
      In. A ticket roll , put up sleeve
      Tag produce in a quiet way
      You will get thrown out eventually
      The stores won't let you do that in standing at fish counter
      There are the ethical questions as well
      We must weigh the stores complicity?
      Think it thru , be effective , but place blame where blame is due

      I bought bags of toy soldiers and put stickers on the base of them saying bring me home when the afghan war began , left them every where .
      No muss no fuss

      What ever you do is something

      I'm sorry if I offend anyone that have served in war .

      • tsfw tsfw

        Myself I would be at outdoor markets and I wouldn't do it right at the vendor's stand. I wasn't suggesting anyone stand in the frozen section all day long handing out pamphlets, you'd be thrown out in a heart beat I know– but certainly while doing our own groceries, a few people can be targeted without it causing a stir. If everyone told 1 person, every time they went shopping, the difference would be huge and the risk would be minimal. It's also an easy start for people- without having to really go out of their way since we all buy food. Just a quick 'I wouldn't eat that if I were you' pass the pamphlet and carry on. Well in my mind it goes that smoothly haha. You're probably right, people would be throwing fish at me.

      • nohobear nohobear

        I like the idea of the stickers. Maybe posted also in the bathroom stalls of restaurants that sell fish on the menu.

  • tsfw tsfw

    Sorry that was intended for OT >>>>


    legends are true…
    from Fuji to sea…
    nature won against we…

  • atomicistheword

    Detroit news 1400 people to sue the overlords of Fukushima … Toshiba, GE and Hitachi….

    YouTube video by Everybody Every1

    Interesting tid bit about who built the second atomic radiation reactor.


      you should research this further, atomicistheword, and then forward the source articles to admin…

    • flatsville

      Thanks. Was comimg up dry on deails. Name of lead atty helpful.

      This could grow legs.

      This atty will have a hard row to hoe…starting with the EQ as the cause which will have bearing on the design flaw arguments. The perimiter? radiation sounded before the tsusami hit as reported by a few news outlets. This has been seept under the rug for good reason.

      • Socrates

        The case is a test case seeking nominal damages. The idea is to judicially test the immunities under Japanese law. My understanding is that Tepco has legal immunity. Other defendants in Japan may not.

        If I find out more I will post. Can we sue in USA against GE?

        • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

          Can you sue? Sure!! If you don't mind being audited (roughed up) by the IRS and have your business raided by zoning officials, health officials, consumer protection officials, etc. Put on a no-fly list. Harassed and threatened by the Nuisance Abatement Teams (swat wanna-be) para-military intimidation teams. I could go on but I think you get the point. Welcome to Hell 1.0

          • Socrates


            Consumers face challenges and expenses from these negligent actions by many companies and governments.

            The jurisdictional issues are very complicated.

            In the worst case scenario, people will all get sick. Even judges and juries will be too sick to proceed.

            My opinion is that morbidity and mortality rates will steadily climb making "These truths self-evident." I remember when tobacco and asbestos manufacturers did not want to settle.

            Eventually, the damn breaks and the rats begin to run. Tobacco had trillions. They paid a few bucks after 65 years of litigation. They still kill one of five people. They still advertise and make profits by hooking children on tobacco.

            Proving your illness came from radiation will be easy in some cases and impossible in others.

            If millions sicken and go to the Emergency room or run up Medicare costs, those entities can sue. The government itself is an injured party.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              I don't disagree on any one point. And I'm aware of the complexities especially since people don't develop symptoms or die right away. However, this is an important point. Once this and other disasters happen, the gov't has ample time to mitigate the effects through various means. And has ample time to insure disasters don't happen again. Enough time has passed since the beginning of the atomic age, to see this is not being done. If the gov't is an injured party, they're a willing injured party. And such injuries are being allowed for the benefit of an industry over the health and lives of the people. Plus, it is easily shown the various gov'ts are well aware of the risks and costs. The fact that people are still buying cigarettes is true; the addictive nature of the ingredients not withstanding? However, they are doing so with full knowledge of the dangers and hence are given the OPPORTUNITY of mitigating those dangers should they WISH to do so. If the "government" represented by it's agencies lies to congress, I think they're no longer the injured party, yes? And they will lie like a rug.

            • Ontological Ontological

              Bull They changed the laws long ago, I could not sue these idiots doctors that dragged me through the mud for 2 years over skull cancer, even tho I have a legitimate case.

              • Socrates

                There are strict time periods which to sue, often very unfair to the injured patient. Depending on the State you are in, there are very unfair imitations on "non-economic" damages. The costs for proving the deviation from the standard of care and that the outcome would have been better to a reasonable degree of probability are very expensive. Few lawyers take these cases in California because of MICRA.

                We are working on reforming these limits with a cost of living increase via an initiative on the ballot.

                I am sorry about your cancer. I have had five melanoma operations.

          • flatsville

            >>>Sure!! If you don't mind being audited (roughed up) by the IRS and have your business raided by zoning officials, …..<<<

            This rarely happens. Some intimidation/harassment of clients has occurred depending on the locale and the defendant.

            Overall, you have a vivid imagination.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              Rarely happens? It shouldn't happen at all. What's your definition of rarely? And do you think intimidation by governments is increasing or decreasing?

              • Socrates

                They go after whistleblowers much more. Protesters, too.

                They dismiss many lawsuits that have merit, especially on state secrets. They don't need a warrant and torture. I never thought I'd see this happen.

              • flatsville

                Like I said…rarely.

                Shouldn't happen at all…That's right…but this is the world….Deal with it.

                I have old ladies with notepads who are unafraid. They deal with it rather than hide under the bed and get slowly poisoned.

          • That's if the NSA doesn't drop some kiddie porn onto your computer…..

        • Shaker1

          Socrates, aren't there examples of retroactive indemnification brought to us by the best Congress that money can buy? And, christ, listening to the last State of the Union address, seems the idea of Executive Order is getting more powerful.

          (tongue in cheek) You know, GE does bring good things to life…

          • Socrates

            It is what it is…. The BP litigation took on some interesting issues. How can the POTUS have "affordable care" if everyone gets sick? The insurance companies do not want to pay all those costs. Medicare does not want to pay. Taxpayers do not want to pay. Nobody wants to pay.

            Ecological damages can be externalized…. But trillions in medical costs? This will take more than an executive order to make it all just go away.

            The rats run in the final analysis. When Hitler was in the bunker he broadcast that Germans should fight to the last and then kill themselves… We are not going to do this to save this industry. I know people who were in Berlin when this happened. They laugh about it.

            • Shaker1

              Sorry I let my cynicism taint the question. It strikes me that in one manner or another 'it' will be paid, be it through taking actual money from these corps or impairment of economies through degradation of populations. I'm all for making some effort to exact some measure of wealth to be directly placed at a point of mitigation. It's good to know that there are those with some measure of conscience and justice making that attempt, not just simply placing decisions in the realm of accounting and actuarial mindsets even if those have their part to play.


            • flatsville

              Even Dow and Monsanto paid out of court settlements to vets on AO just to make it all stop.

        • flatsville


          Yes on the indemnification issue. This will be interesting.

          >>>Can we sue in USA against GE?<<<

          Who is "we" and what specific claim would "we" pursue?

          The USSRR sailors are a different story. This was the approach I hoped the attorney would take…still may take at some point. Sue GE et al over radioactive contamination suffered during Tomodachi. No PAA issues to deal with because it did not happen on US soil.

          • Socrates

            If it was designed here and injures people here, where did it happen? Nuclear accidents happen in more than one place. Seattle residents are injured by a design by a domestic corporation. The situs of the meltdown is Japan so venue would usually be there but all the design engineers are here. GE kept it's finger in the pie. The US people cannot sue in Japan. No remedy under their law. No subsidiary of TEPCO in USA.

            I wonder what a federal judge would do. Also, you can sue a foreign government like Widows of 911 v. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia recently reinstated…. Sue Japan for lack of oversight…

            Your thoughts Counselor? Polity, forum non conveniens?

            • flatsville


              >>>Seattle residents are injured by a design by a domestic corporation..<<<

              Could very well be…and you won't find me moving to the West Coast any time soon, but making a cogent argument that Seattle residents suffered injuries from radioactive contamination based on hot particles pulled from auto air filters is problematic at best. For starters, got chain of custody on samples?

              The situation with the USSRR sailors is vastly different. Proximity to the NPP, nearly immediate symptoms upon entering the plume etc…

              >>>If it was designed here and injures people here, where did it happen?<<<

              Clearly not on US soil.

              >>>I wonder what a federal judge would do.<<<

              >>>Polity, forum non conveniens?<<<

              Yes. I see the problem. I think someone needs to give this a try. Sue GE et al on behalf of the USSRR sailors in a US Court and see what happens.

              >>>Also, you can sue a foreign government like Widows of 911 v. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia recently reinstated…. Sue Japan for lack of oversight…<<<

              Was the oversight element not an issue in the case that was dismissed?

              Also, I recall that another poster, an atty?, versed in maritime law made a cogent argument that we were likely barking up the wrong tree and should be dog paddling for relief. He/she may be right. I am clueless re: maritime. I copied his comments for review and discussion at a later date and never got around to it.

  • Sol Man

    Must trance!

    Nobody that I have spoken to is even remotely aware of the situation. I advise them that them must come to enenews. It is difficult to comprehend the reason that people would want to stay in the darkness.

    • Sol Man

      Oh, speedy fingers! "I advise them that they must…"

    • mairs mairs

      It doesn't help if they come here and people say we're all going to be dead in five years.

    • It is much like an abused woman staying with her abuser husband. They know their situation, but are fearful of getting out of it. It is very difficult for them to leave in many cases, despite the suffering.

      Then the abuser blames the victim. It is an enabling situation, very dysfunctional.

      Scale that up to billions of people, 1% with huge egos abusing the 99% who go along with being abused.. same situation.

      No big huge mystery, just lots of dysfunction, misinformation, confusion, propaganda, and blaming the victims..

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Where is the corium, TEPCO? 😉 suggests a drilling rig and instrumentation for finding corium under Reactors1-3 in the mudrock using a low flat angle drilling rig.

    Big shoutout to SimplyInfo for their great ideas on this issue.

    Their idea in a nutshell is:
    1. Begin at the center of core in the reactor, and draw an inverted cone down well below the plant.
    2. This 3D inverted cone includes the most probable location for the missing corium.
    3. Drill into the inverted cone at a low flat angle from three sides of reactor buildings1-3.
    4. Sealed instrument package to detect neutron flux, rads, temp, pressure, and air.
    5. Adjust drilling angle to create 3D image of corium.
    6. Use the 3D modeling to develop a strategy for removing corium from the ground.

    This assumes that the core isn't miles below the plant, but has exhausted itself within the first hundred feet or so below ground leve.
    At least they would be using a practical system to actually locate the corium lava tubes.
    If they do locate the corium, using this strategy, perhaps they would arrive at what I believe is the correct strategy:
    1. Locate and isolate the corium where it now sits in the earth.
    2. Locate and isolate the corium lava tubes to stop contaminated groundwater and cooling water from entering the Pacific Ocean.

    • flatsville

      PUN, I am more and more impressed with simply info every time I read their original content. You should contribute to them.

  • sworldpeas

    Wiki "Conspiracy theories are frequent topics on GCN, more so than on mainstream conservative talk radio."

    I would be interested to hear what Chris Harris has to say but he is doing himself a dis-service by being on such a fraudulent show. imo

    btw: GCN is an ABC affiliate.

  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

    Naw… naw…. it was worse when when they deployed this crap with NO PLANS TO MITIGATE IT'S EFFECTS and STICK YOU WITH THE BILL for burying it in YOUR BACKYARD thus making the cost of electricity ARTIFICIALLY LOW to fool you into allowing it. And now the bill's come due. Cost? YOUR LIVES and YOUR FUTURE LIVES.

  • I posted the following on stock's nuke pro blog some time ago…

    – FINAL (sic) QUESTION

    The solution to pollution is…
    [ ] dilution
    [ ] illusion
    [ ] confusion
    [ ] deception
    [ ] extinction

  • And another re-post of mine; please note the last verse before the end refrains…


    Japanese experts recently found that singing is just as effective in radiation prevention as smiling and drinking beer.

    So let’s sing radiation away once and for all !

    Please find below my charming new song NO FUEL TODAY which is dedicated to TODAY’S FOOLS who are still dreaming the nuclear dream which – I’m sorry to say – is more of a nightmare in terms of the real world we unfortunately live in most of the time [at least we still do as of now, ha ha].

    Take your copy of the lyrics, everyone ! I’m sure you all know the melody, it’s a natural match, if only I was able to remember the name of that song, damned ! Total lapse of memory – must be an effect of the radiation… (of course there isn’t any, right ?)


    No fuel today, lost in a tragic way
    The vessel stands forlorn, a symbol of the dawn
    No fuel today, they state the plant’s alright
    but anyone who’s wise knows Tepco always lies

    Most of us know just what this message means
    The end of mankind (and other life, it seems)
    We knew for long that Fukushima scene
    Has ramifications never told on TV screen

    No fuel today, the pool has gone away
    As water levels fell, broke loose a fire hell

    But all that’s left is a place dark and lonely
    A crippled plant in Japan’s north-eastern part
    Radiation horrors don’t stay local only
    So we’ve just seen the start


    • :

      No fuel today, it has been blast away
      It went right through the roof, check air nuclides for proof
      Where jet-stream blows, the faster all it goes
      The fall-out came at once, nobody had a chance

      Most of us know just what this message means
      But masses still ignore it (at least so it seems)
      I hope the fascists in the nuclear industry
      Are panicking in fear from the bad publicity

      No fuel today, it's molten down away
      Through steel and concrete base, no one knows where it stays

      But all that's left is a place dark and lonely
      A crippled plant in Japan's north-eastern part
      Radiation horrors don't stay local only
      So we've just seen the start

      Steam clouds today, the water's found a way
      From ocean to the well, but noone's gonna tell

      But all that's left is a place dark and lonely
      A crippled plant in Japan's north-eastern part
      Oh all that's left is a place dark and lonely
      A crippled plant in Japan's north-eastern part
      Oh all that's left is a place dark and lonely
      A crippled plant in Japan's north-eastern part

      Delightful, isn't it ? I already feel sooo much better….

  • Daisy207

    Is this flow included in the 400 (800) tons of water a day discharged or is this added to it and can they measure the volume – and how much of it is tritium along with the other hootch components? I would be willing to bet that no one really knows how much water a day is being discharged except the fish, seals, star fish, walrus, whales, dolphins, and all the other sea life that are wondering why they are developing tumors and skin lesions. Can't wait for the folks along the west coast to go into the water this summer at the beach and a few days later develop rashes all over their bodies. It will probably be some sort of virus.

  • Socrates

    The milk, water and air are the biggest vectors… Seafood is worrisome.

    Sea creatures can take some radiation. Land animals are damaged by ionizing radiation. The nitric oxide mechanism reacts and damages the cells. This reaction.can be modulated downwards with the result of markedly more resistant animals. Knock – out rats – with altered genes can take huge amounts. Nobody knows the side effects, however.

    Strange how we would have to take a pill just so they can irradiated us for profit. Better to close down the poison machines.

    Watched a David Suzuki documentary on Netfix about our chimp behavior. Jane Goodall's opinions about being smart enough to survive the ice age but too stupid to survive the warm periods. Reason: we are killing the planet. Our intelligence can only plan ahead one business quarter – fight or flight… Nothing long-range. Michael Hudson, the economist, talked about the debts that enslave us like the Romans who never had the debt jubilee discharging debt every 59 years.

  • Socrates

    I contacted the Office of US Senator Barbara Boxer, 600 "B" Street, suite 2240, San Diego, CA 92101

    (619) 239-3884
    Fax (202) 228-3862

    She was very helpful in getting SONGS in San Onofre, California shutdown.

    I explained the situation at Fukushima and the issues of mortality and morbidity increases documented in the US. There was a plume of Iodine-131; hot particles in Seattle, Cesium-137 plumes, and possible Strontium-90 in milk samples.

    The EPA shutdown monitors, or the monitors failed to work.

    I agreed to mail information to her office. She has an official email address also, as well as several telephone numbers you may call.

    Please feel free to contact her office about the public health threat of Fukushima and nuclear power plants in routine operation.

    Send reputable scientific information to assist her staff in evaluating the threat to public safety and health so that her office can formulate an appropriate response.

    The issue is VERY complex. I feel that she will take appropriate steps when she has received enough information from her constituents. She responded last time with SONGS. With our her help, only God knows what would have happened to 8.5 million people. With Fukushima, hundreds of millions of people WILL have increased mortality and morbidity under the best case scenario.

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      Let her know we're starting a parade and wouldn't she like to get in front of it?

      • Socrates

        Did you do anything to shut down SONGS? I hope you were at those demonstrations. Maybe YOU can lead the parade. Why not? Remember Joan of Arc?

        I go to the NRC meetings and post the same comments there as I do here and ask that my comments be published in the Federal Register. I write to my Senators. I advise many environmental groups. I appear before City Council and presents epidemiological studies and obtain City resolutions. I blog and line up expert witnesses. I even design epidemiological studies. I work with environmental groups.

        Get out there. Get active. Never stand alone.

        A whistleblowers was very loud and public. I said, "Aren't you afraid?" He said if there was a meltdown that it would kill him and his entire family and 8.5 million people who could escape.

        Do not hide in the shadows… Nothing distemper people more than fearing retribution for expressing their opinions. As soon as you stop being fearful, you will have the power to change things. You are not alone. We all stand together.

        • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

          Clap… clap…. clap. I'm happy you think you're actually accomplishing something. Such delusion is not without precedent; Neville comes to mind. I've done my service, you? The time for florid prose and prancing in the streets while cops turn you into swiss cheese are coming to a swift end. What is your backup plan when words fail? Please answer this? Time is running out.

          • Socrates

            Try the former first.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              Answer my question. What is your backup plan when words fail?

              • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                Thought so. Always quick with the retorts, but never an answer when challenged.

                • flatsville

                  We'll cross that bridge. And (predictably) if you believe we have, feel free to lead.

                  If your unwilling or still waiting for the right time, hide under your bed and load your guns for the revolution. I'll send one of my old ladies by to slide you a sandwich if I can get one to put down her note pad. Toxic dumps don't watch themselves.

                  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                    Predictably? It's y'all that are painting me this and that. Not saying anything pro or con. "Loaded guns"…. fish much? Hide under my bed? Why so denigrating? "Toxic dumps don't watch themselves"; Tootin' yer own horn? Good for you. Toot! Toot!
                    So, can yer old lady draw up a plan to extract the 100 million gallons of highly radioactive waste that leeched into the ground at Hanford et al? No? But I'm sure you could get some kind of settlement for all them po' victims whose lives will be ruined for countless generations. Settlement? There's no settlement for "this". That's why you're negative demeanor is focused on people like myself on this forum. Us "rebels" will screw everything up and there'll be no big "tobacco" settlement for y'all. Toot! Toot!

                    • Jebus Jebus


                      In other news today, scientists discover mirrors reflect…

                    • flatsville

                      No suits brought by any plaintiffs represented by any enviro lawyer prevents YOU from "enforcing" the Constitution as you see fit. You do it your way. We'll do it ours.

                      You don't need our permission or approval. We don't want or need yours.

                      You'll hardly screw up anything where my plans are concerned. I highly doubt you'll affect anything Socrates might be working on.

                      By all means, have at it.

              • babbo dorian babbo dorian

                I can answer that easily SykeWar,……
                when words fail… we decide to do nothing…. or action…..
                If we are harmed, and do nothing, … well, ….
                I think as human beens we have the right to defend ourselves according to the atack.

                • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                  We have the ability and the right to defend our constitutional rights. And we have rule of law; writs and remedies. There's no need for all this blabber and threatening law suits and pleading (begging) to be allowed to not suffer and die. To be talked into taking the indian trinkets handed out from a CA suit. Bullshit.

                  Read the law – understand the law – and enforce the law.

                  U.S.C. Title 18 Section 242 Deprivation of Rights Under the Color of Law.

            • Socrates

              I suppose you served your country in military service but feel that the time for a revolution has arrived. We are governed by an oligarchy in whose hands wealth is accumulating faster and faster as they strip third world countries of their resources through the World Bank and IMF predatory lending.

              But revolutions have been unable to change things in many instances. Take the French Revolution where Napoleon crowned himself Emperor. Take the Russian Revolution where Stalin took over. Look at what happens ed in Mexico after Pancho Villa.

              Usually, a military junta takes over. Maybe sheer numbers and ideas will be mightier than repression. Maybe not. Revolutions are very bloody and often just reflect a substitutions of aristocracies. That happened in America. The slaves were still slaves and women could not vote.

              It could be too late in history for revolution given the technology. Anyways, I guess I'm a foolish optimist given my dim view of the naked ape. Those who served served what, may I ask? They joined up. Hard to serve two masters.

              Time for evidence of hope and change, not just campaign rhetoric. Mere bumper stickers are not enough.

              • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                Like socref you never answer a simple straightforward question. Like "it", you assume to know me, deflect and segue into some philosophical or historical drivel. Don't confuse me with my youthful avatar. We could go back and forth all day long. Shall I discuss the genocidal atrocities that went on in Rwanda while Madeleine Albright refused to take action and Pres. Clinton apologized for for allowing? A million human beings slaughtered! Do you think talk would stop that?


                I feel all should serve. Like voting, all should learn to wield the military power to kill, especially since you're paying for it. But most important, to understand such power serves no favorites. Civs think should there be an armed revolution they would win due to numbers in their favor. People who think this haven't served. Think Philadelphia Bombing. Sure they've got tech. We invented it.

                • Well, if you believe words are useless, and direct political and/or legal action is useless, and revolution is pointless, why are you here? Just asking, because it's not clear to me. Thanks.

    • Socrates

      Unfortunately, party politics has not allowed an open and Frank discussion of these issues. Many greens believe that nuclear energy is safe and green. Many Democrats favor more nuclear everything.

      There are problems with coal, carbon, and even biomass as it competes with food production. That does not mean that nuclear energy is safe or inexpensive. It has a high carbon footprint. Storage problems are not solved.

      With runaway healthcare costs, increased mortality and morbidity cannot be ignored. To have affordable healthcare, we must look to the cause of autism, diabetes, learning disabilities, childhood cancers, leukemias, low both weights, stillbirths, miscarriages, birth defects, and the list goes on… heart disease, too.

      The Pacific Food web is threatened. Milk safety, etc.

      This is an unconventional truth. But by documenting these issues with a Senator on the West Coast, we have an opportunity to affect policy.

      No senator wants the issue of dead children cases in his/her files going ignored. This is the place to educate because the public can do very little except to filter water with reverse osmosis, stay out of the rain, and avoid seafood from the Pacific.

      • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

        Thank you, for every tree and flower.
        Thank you, for a sky of blue.
        Thank you, I should be every hour truly thanking you.

      • Daisy207

        How about a simple thing to start the ball rolling – require all new construction be geothermal. Always heating and cooling from around 55 degrees – even in the coldest climates. Uses some electricity but not nearly as much as heating or cooling directly with electricity. No load in the system – a simple compressor. It won't take away our dependence on fossil fuel – but will start to reduce it – little by little, inch by inch – anything is better than facing the current situation we are in. It may be too little too late – and of course they can't tax geothermal energy – and the bottom line is always money. Perhaps we are all learning the lesson we should have learned in our youth – the love of money is the root of all evil.

        • Plunging holes into the water table is not a good thing. Horizontal geothermal avoids that problem, but is much more expensive, and much less possible in city situations.

    • We Not They Finally

      THANK YOU for doing this, Socrates! That's a real public service and is profoundly appreciated. Going through Diane Feinstein probably would have been hopeless, she is so twisted into the corporate world. And I guess it is hard for anyone in the Senate to stay clear of that. (Bernie Sanders, yes, but he is also virtually unopposed in small-state Vermont.) But Boxer always tries to do the right thing, once she is clear what it is.

      Again, THANK YOU!!

      • Socrates

        You are welcome. Boxer needs the information. Like a cop, several telephone calls and a few letters in your file, you have probable cause. Your failure to act will later be noted. When it comes to saving lives of children, it becomes harder and harder not to act.

        History will judge those harshly who allow their financial interests to trump public health and safety. Campaign contributions are "legalized bribery."

        As Davy Crockett said, "If you know you are right, then go ahead."

        I have seen enough evidence. The time to act was earlier. But there are many things to do before we just roll over and die. They may not care about their children and granchildren but I care about theirs and mine.

        Most of them are psychopaths….But basically they are cowards. The tide is turning with every Gulf spill and nuclear meltdown.

        • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

          +311 Socrates!, Even the politicians who DO seem to have a sense of morality here in the not so great State of IL are either pro-nuke or won't even touch the nuclear issue(s) that already was sickening & killing their constituents prior to 311! I did watch a few very long & boring environmental congressional hearings that included the EPA & NRC head lackeys who smugly sat there spewing lies & double-talk about environmental issues of concern including Fukushima and comparable US facilities re; their own set of risks and Sen. Boxer's line of questioning found Gina McCarthy,etc. sitting red-faced & stammering with scripted responses & I got the impression Ms. Boxer was genuinely concerned about the issues her inquiries as I watched the proceedings on CSPAN. I hope so anyway(?)!! THANK YOU for your contribution to our mutual cause! 🙂

        • MochiMadness

          Socrates, I admire your fortitude, dealing with these politicos in any manner whatsoever.

          I'm not sure, and I hope someone corrects me, that perhaps SkyeWar is advocating more of a "direct action" type of response–ALF/Sea Shepherd type of "Hey. We tried talking to you people, tried doing this the 'legal way', tried to compromise. You keep f**king things up and we're just going to do something direct about it."

          I think that the problem now is that the time has run out to be reasonable and "legal" with these people who have proven, time and time again, that they will kick the can down the road. "I'll see what I can do." It's a delaying tactic of politicians and hostage negotiators (so that your head is brought into the scope of a sniper).

          I don't like legal tactics. The legal system is part of the problem–it's built and designed so that when you engage in their game, you lose–but not until you are bled dry, all of the things you were fighting for are dead/destroyed–and maybe you'll get some money out of it. Maybe.

          Can we save the patient first–and THEN start with the legal finger pointing and who is to blame for what? Just asking.

          • flatsville

            Mochi >>>Can we save the patient first–and THEN start with the legal finger pointing and who is to blame for what? Just asking.<<<

            And how do you propose to "save the patient first" since legal action is not the preferred option for you?

            What is your plan?

            Put a guns to their collective heads and force the operators to shut down? Occupy NPPs?

            Don't be coy. Come right out and say it.

            And if that is what you want, do it. A few enviro lawyers in courts here and there across the country battling with nukes aren't blocking you from pursuing another avenue.

            By all means, have at it.

            • MochiMadness

              Flatsville, I absolutely will come right out and say it, I'm not bashful. I stand 100% behind direct action. If I had any skills whatsoever that Sea Shepherd could use, I would sell my house and go. I don't stand idly by with really anything-I see abuse or neglect with people or animals, I immediately do something about it. My name and my face are well known around here that I don't stand for the defenseless being abused. My house has been shot up, my dog attacked and me threatened on more than one occasion.

              I also understand nuclear physics to a degree. I do have a BS in Radiology. I've worked with it for 24 years. I know quite well that Occupying a NPP would be…shall we say…explosive?

              Legal battles have their place. When there is TIME. For example, saving an endangered species–there comes a time when the need is so dire, people have to step in with guns, i.e. elephant and rhino poaching, to protect them.

              So yeah. I think that this situation is escalating to the degree that direct action of the Sea Shepherd, ELF, ALF type is needed.

              I just need to ask you–has legal action really done much to shut these NPPs down in the past? Usually a shutdown is caused by loss of revenue or maintenance problems. Not public good or fear of forced reparations. Why would a NPPO be afraid of litigation when they're not financially liable in this country?

              • flatsville


                >>>I just need to ask you–has legal action really done much to shut these NPPs down in the past?<<<

                Many are under the impression plants close themselves. Show me one where the operators (who are by and large publicly traded corporations) shut it down without a legal challenge.

                >>>Not public good or fear of forced reparations.<<<

                A couple that I can think of off the top of my head.

                A publicly owned utility (owned by the ratepayers it serves, not shareholders) in CA shut down a NPP on a ballot item.

                Few NPPs are operated by publicly owned utilities. Most are owned by private corps acting as a public utility, hence the need for legal action. They are in business to make money, even if that means operating dangerous NPPs, not to shut themselves down for the "public good."

                >>>Why would a NPPO be afraid of litigation when they're not financially liable in this country?<<<

                There are PAA tier caps on liability payouts from damages caused by a nuclear incident/accident only.

                There are no caps on how much they may have to pay to defend licensing or re-licensing, waste handling issues, incidental contamination, etc…and those costs to them are a function of legal challenges brought by enviro groups and atty.

                By all means, move directly to direct action. Save the patient.

                Nothing I, my colleagues or associates are doing is stopping you.

                Go for it.

                • flatsville

                  Ranco Seco was closed on a ballot item by the ratepayers who were the "owners" of the publicly owned utility.


                  I cannot remember the other publicly owned NPP to close on a vote. If anyone can, please post.

                  • Wyakin Wyakin

                    Thank you Socrates.

                    We need victories wherever we can get them and everyone needs to do what they personally can contribute to shut down NPP.

                    Flatsville-good to see your periodic posts.

                    As we discussed previously here and from my own personal experience working on on the shutdown of Trojan referendum (failed), the elements that seem to work are simultaneous political activism and legal challenges.

                    In Oregon, millions were spent to defeat the shutdown referendum, millions more in propaganda, legal defense and lobbying. Money in these arenas always count.

                    NPP economics seem to be the driving force for recent shutdowns. This and some legislation stopped the proliferation of NP in Oregon. Were it not for a dedicated few and the use of these tools, many more reactors would be operating in this state.

                    RS may be an outlier in the sense the plant had numerous publicized safety issues and there was a substantial educated voting population who had the opportunoty to voe on the continuation of NP plant operations in their locatlity(hard to find similar analogies).

                    In some of the rural locations where NPP are sited, legal challenge may be the only effective avenue. These challenges require substantial resources, and strategies may vary state to state depending on the legal environment.

                • zogerke zogerke

                  it was years ago but the shoreham npp in long island ny (later renamed to lilco and then entergy??) was shut down by legal action. i wrote about it before here . but it was legal action following non violent civil disobedience and trespass. the wade defense was used. those arrested had thousand of pages of fraudulent bluepront changes in hard copy that were presented to court " we trespassed to prevent a greater harm." the activists got off. there were 435 of us. today we would end up jailed as terrorists under homeland security violations i bet.

                  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                    FYI-On May 19, 1989, LILCO agreed not to operate the plant in a deal with the state under which most of the $6 billion cost of the unused plant was passed along to Long Island residents.

                    • zogerke zogerke

                      i am trying to remember when the shoreham protest was. TMI was 77…this must have been right around 79. Here is what wikipedia remembers:
                      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                      Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant
                      United States
                      East Shoreham, New York
                      Coordinates 40°57′40″N 72°51′54″

                      Status Decommissioned
                      Construction began November 1, 1972[1]
                      Commission date August 1, 1986[1]
                      Decommission date May 1, 1989[1]
                      Construction cost $6 Billion
                      Operator(s) Long Island Lighting Company
                      Reactors decom. 820 MW
                      Reactor type(s) BWR[1]

                      The Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant was a completed General Electric nuclear boiling water reactor located adjacent to Long Island Sound in East Shoreham, New York. The plant was built between 1973 and 1984 by the Long Island Lighting Company (LILCO), but never operated.

                      In 1983, the Suffolk County Legislature voted that the county could not be safely evacuated in the event of a serious nuclear accident at the plant, and governor of New York, Mario Cuomo, ordered state officials not to approve any LILCO-sponsored evacuation plan. The plant was completed in 1984 and in 1985 LILCO received federal permission for low-power 5 percent power tests.

                      The plant faced considerable public opposition after the 1979 Three Mile Island accident and the 1986 Chernobyl disaster. In 1981, 43 percent of Long Islanders opposed the plant; by 1986, that number had risen to 74 percent.

                    • zogerke zogerke

                      My personal experiences there (and jail time) were during the first wave of protests before the plant was fully completed, before the 1983 vote that the area could not be evacuated. The completion, and then decommissioning, and pass along costs to rate payers, were another ten years later, and are not events that i have personal knowledge about.

                  • flatsville

                    zogerke, shoreham was one strange saga. I remember being envious of that campaign's success. TMI consolidated anti-nuke sentiment on the EC, but not necessarily in parts of the country post event.

                    Jail time. Been a while.

                    I remember pissed-off jailers who thought we were having too much fun. They were not amused.

                    Yes. Would likely be different in 2014. We are one US accident away from finding out the hard way as these aging monsters rattle and wheeze.

                    • zogerke zogerke

                      flatsville. yes. there was clamshell alliance, the whole network of disciplined affinity groups and non violent civil disobedience classes studying gandhi and rev dr MLK jr. the spokespeople, the scribes, thge long consensus meetings. Some of us traveled from state to state- seabrook, educating and activist-ing around seabrook; then shoreham (there was no lilco yet) and indian point in buchanan ny. I think Shoreham had beginners luck, after the mess of arrests at Seabrook. What helped at Shoreham was cross class unity- the workers running backhoes at the site were the ones who found the pages of blueprint changes…students at stonybrook suny were involved; so were professors….and there was the clamshell alliance people supporting and educating the newyorkers. it was a period of striving and success. the judge at the case for shoreham trespass actually came around as somewhat anti nuke, as i recall…..

                  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                    Oh, I forgot to say thanks for your good work. I'm still a believer it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. And as you mentioned, today protesters would be treated very differently I'm sure. Can't wait….:-)

          • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

            "I'm not sure, and I hope someone corrects me, that perhaps SkyeWar is advocating more of a "direct action"…" I guess it never occurred to you to ASK ME DIRECTLY?

            SAVE THE CHILDREN FIRST. Screw the adults. They deserve everything they get.

            • MochiMadness

              Okay, SkyeWar, since I was actually trying in a strange way to agree with you–but you're on the warpath for some reason…

              are you advocating for more of a "direct action" type of response to this crisis?

              I'm all for "saving the children first"–but we need skilled adults in order to do that. 🙂 Just a thought.

              • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                MochiMadness: No… I caught that. Historically speaking it's a PITA dealing with the threading of this forum so it's better to be as direct as possible. And we've/I've had issues with shills so I think it's appropriate to challenge those that speak authoritatively to insure they are genuine. Kinda like sniffing…. ah nevermind.

                Anyway, I think it's important that people realize they're not as weak as they may think they are. And that tactics that foster division and derision is being used to split up families and communities. I'm not advocating violence as a rule, but one shouldn't rule it out. For some in power, force is the only thing they understand. And I think it's important they understand 🙂

                There's ample historical evidence what happens when people don't or can't defend themselves. Laws are nothing but a tool to "legitimize" human activitiy with both positive and negative results. Add to this mis-interpretations and non-enforcement. Then it becomes a shield to hide behind. Where were the lawyers for Kelly Thomas? When you're dead it's too late. Justice means nothing. Settlements mean nothing.

                I most certainly advocate following the law. This one:
                U.S.C. Title 18 section 242.
                Read it – understand it – enforce it! And when they won't, that's what the 2nd amendment is for.

                • MochiMadness

                  No worries. I'm new here, and I don't wade in where I'm over my head. I know radiology, gardening and quite a bit about human nature, so that's where I comment.

                  I don't advocate violence at all, unless it's the last resort. You are right though-certain people only understand a certain language-and when they are not spoken to in that language, they see you as weak. Just because you're elected president or a CEO, does NOT mean you aren't a dangerous individual. Free Market or not-when decisions as those being made here at GE/Hitachi-effect humanity as a whole,extreme measures need to be taken.

                  If "the law" wants to do something constructive- the law should strip corps. of their rights (since, after all, corporations are people!) when they pose a danger to themselves or others–we do it all the time to psych patients.

                  The law is used to blunt the will of the people-and before you get all hot and bothered flatsville–it was not originally intended to do that–but as any system that has grown corrupt, it's used to defend the indefensible. I am not a "black and white" person-there are instances of simple human decency that should supercede the man made constructs of "law". That's a bullshit cop-out to hide behind, "BUT IT's LEGAL!"

                  Flatsville,I've watched babies who've had their skulls crushed by an abusive parent be returned to that same parent. I know what a fast talking slick lawyer can do. Don't talk to me about doing the right thing…

                  • flatsville

                    And Mochi don't talk to me about doing the right thing either.

                    I am not stopping you from your direct action. Neither is Socrates.

                    Law used to blunt the will of the people…Hmmm…We still live in a Democratic Republic. Go be an actve citizen.

                    And don't lecture me re: how the ills of the legal system are all the fault of attorneys…inc. crushed baby heads. There are legislators, judges and in the case of abused children, a state agency involved, with multiple points for failure and blame.

                    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                      The problem people have is they confuse the court system with a justice system. They're two different things.

              • clamshellernh clamshellernh

                I do not think we should be talking about direct action here , trolls NSA , conspiracy . Yikes . Leave that up to the kids in black block . I have things to do . Been there done that , way older now …

                • zogerke zogerke

                  Clamshell, I agree with your statement one hundred percent. No one with grounding or political experience plans direct action on a message board. For me, i am sharing some memories from more than thirty years ago, and then i am only sharing my perspectives, my window ont the events. All we write here is recorded and monitored, thatis thenature of a political antinuke board on the internet. Your warning is spot on.

                  • flatsville

                    clam and zogerke,

                    There will likely be no direct action out of the people here mouthing the words…just more keyboard pounding.

                    No need to worry.

                    Save the patient first and Save the Children requires you push away from the computer and DO something.

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      "She was very helpful in getting SONGS in San Onofre, California shutdown." Hardly.

      Edison cited the mounting costs of the outage as the driving reason for retiring the plant. The San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station has been closed for more than a year after a tube in its newly replaced steam generator system leaked a small amount of radioactive steam into the atmosphere. The leak led to the discovery that hundreds of tubes were wearing out at an unusual rate.

      Their grave was dug for them, and not by Boxer. Nothing in the article states Boxer was helpful or instrumental in the closing of the plant. She was just, "relieved". Whoopty doo.

      • bonsairebellion bonsairebellion


        "In May 2013 Senator Barbara Boxer, chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, said the modifications had proved to be "unsafe and posed a danger to the eight million people living within 50 miles of the plant,” and she called for a criminal investigation."

        But I suppose her efforts aren't as productive as preaching defeatism.

        • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

          bonsairebellion: Preaching defeatism? Sorry, who's preaching defeatism?

          • bonsairebellion bonsairebellion

            Would you first admit that Senator Boxer was more than “hardly” active in shutting SONGS down?

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              Only if you first admit it WAS her that shut down the plant.

              • bonsairebellion bonsairebellion

                Oh I do agree with Socrates statement above "She was very helpful in getting SONGS in San Onofre, California shutdown." But you did not agree with it and now you do. Glad for the flip-flop. We are heading in the right direction.

                • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                  Ya I set that one up. Anyway, it's pointless to use variables to define this issue. I'm not familiar with Boxer's other efforts to save humanity from the other sources of nuclear toxins in her state. Care to enlighten me?

                  • bonsairebellion bonsairebellion

                    Perhaps Senator Boxer is not your venue for involvement. A government official that sees you as a constituent may be more useful to you. Do you have a political figure in your area that would actually lend an ear to your concerns about the issue of Fukushima and radiation?

                  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                    OK I guess that's a no.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              But this still doesn't answer the question of how doubting that Boxer was responsible for shutting down the plant as "preaching" defeatism.

              • bonsairebellion bonsairebellion

                My defeatism comment isn’t necessarily toward you specifically. Please re-read it and see if you still react to it the same way.

                • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                  I see no other person you referenced in your defeatism statement and your reply was attached to mine. So I'd call that pretty specific. If I'm wrong, please be more clear and not simply ask me to re-read your reply and guess what it means.

                  • bonsairebellion bonsairebellion

                    Sorry you take it so personally. My comment is meant to say we need support those such as Socrates who are attempting to get the ball rolling with our government.

                    At the same time we need to be aware of people who will attempt to belittle, downplay, or discredit such efforts as useless. That is they wish to maintain the paralysis many feel when faced with such a huge task.

                    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                      Interesting your reassigning meaning to my responses. Not taking anything personally that's doesn't reference me personally.

            • clamshellernh clamshellernh

              Barbara is holding hearings with the NRC , go to c-span ..put it in search ..just the other day for a matter of fact .
              Notice that it barely has anyone in attendance , and the repugs that's with her ,oh my

      • Socrates

        Having participated personally in that process, I find any article from a reporter at the Los Angeles Times to be somewhat irrelevant. Whatever the CEO of SEC and Sempra stated in a press release for the reasons is total bullshit. You should realize that yourself. I represented the resident nuclear safety engineer on the plant so I believe I understand the situation from first – hand knowledge, not from what the CEO stated as his reasons. I believe that I understand that situation going back several decades from relatives who worked for the government agencies as experts.

        The real reason for closure was the potential liability for a meltdown, the age of the plants, the ongoing litigation with Misuishi Heavy Industries, the ongoing Public Utilities Commission proceedings before the PU in San Francisco and the failure to produce documents to Senator Boxer.

        I am involved as a professional in several aspects of this litigation. I will not comment further for that reason. I stand by my previous statements.

        Basically, SEC can pass on costs to ratepayers, avoid a dangerous condition, sue Mitsubishi, get out of producing documents, and cut and run from subpoenas for documents from various Senate and Congressional committees.

        I understand your frustration with the system. The oligarchy is a tough opponent. But don't believe everything you read from a CEO.

        • zogerke zogerke

          Thank you socrates.for your work….clear head……actions…..balance….and tenacity.

        • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

          Socrates: Oh it's bullshit now? So you get to decide what's bullshit and what's not. OK let's do this. You said,
          "Having participated personally in that process". Please post the proof of this.
          I represented the resident nuclear safety engineer on the plant so I believe I understand the situation from first – hand knowledge. In what capacity did you represent this engineer? And please provide proof of this also.

          Thank you.

          • I didn't participate in SONGs struggles all the way to closure, but I covered them and paid quite a lot of attention. SCE could have salvaged their nuclear franchise if the pertinent CA utilities commission hadn't decided that they could NOT charge their customers directly for the costs of the extended shutdown and replacement-raplacement steam generators. They'd have eventually doubled their take by forcing Mitsubishi HI to eat the failed ones and contribute to the outage fund.

            It was SCE's financiers and lawyers who convinced the Board it wasn't worth it. The lengthy fiasco served to demostrate to everybody the San Onofre 'trons weren't all that vital to the power supply, and the people aren't uniformly rich. Why should they pay more to keep San Onofre in indefinite outage than it costs to simply pay the transfer premium for buying grid power from some other supplier? Hence their chances for dinging their regular customers more than they already have (and always will) were slim. The money people saw the writing on the wall.

            More and more people – including a great many of SCE's customers – making constant considerable noise in opposition does factor in there, often in the minds of the people who really make the decisions. Even if they never admit it out loud.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              joyb: "… could NOT charge their customers directly for the costs of the extended shutdown and replacement-raplacement (sp-replacement-replacement) steam generators. Exactly. Boxer did this.

            • Socrates


              There are several stages to the PUC hearings. Only the first has been decided.

              The reasons for SEC and SEMPRA for closing the two reactors will be revealed in the next two phases of the PUC hearings.

              The Complaint for indemnity against Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will include many depositions. But from what I know, from experts onsite, vibrations were being transmitted through the pressure tubes. If you contact me, I can forward you the analysis from the nuclear safety engineer who worked at SONGS for 15 years, the last 9 as an employee. He sent his analysis to Obama, the NRC and Boxer.

              Some people here are argumentative and lack the necessary background. You are highly qualified. Basically, I do not care why they shut it down, just that they did. I do not want to see ratepayers pay for their mistakes. I do care how and where they store the sfr, and how they power the plant in the future.

              • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                "Some people here are argumentative" Could you be more specific so I can avoid these folks? Thank you.

                • dharmasyd dharmasyd

                  SykeWar: I hope you get banned from this site. Your comments are disruptive, insulting, and in no way contribute to better knowledge and understanding.

          • Socrates

            People on this site can judge my credibility. I said that what the CEO said is BS. I told you the real reasons. I don't argue with people in forums such as this. But you have proved nothing posting by posting an the Los Angeles Times quoting a CEO who has a 2,5 billion dollar liability.

            Do you believe CEO tell the whole truth about their own mismanagement to the press?

            You will never prove anything but posting a citation on a website of a newspaper. You have not met your burden by quoting someone who you believe is a bad actor. Your attack on my credibility is illogical.

            I have personal knowledge of these events and documents. You sit at a keyboard talking revolution. Go start it without me. Lead your own little parade.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              socrates: "I don't argue with people on this forums such as this" And yet you do, why? I'm not arguing, I'm asking questions to establish a frame of reference. Odd you would consider this arguing.

              "I told you the real reasons."; Versus the fake reasons? And you are nothing but pixels on a screen. Just like all the other pixels.

              "…CEO who has a 2,5 billion dollar liability" What is this liability in reference to? It sounds like you're stooping to character assassination to prove some point. Shame shame.

              "Do you believe CEO tell the whole truth about their own mismanagement to the press?" No. But they don't have a monopoly on lying either.

              "Your attack on my credibility is illogical." I haven't attacked anything. I simply asked questions that would verify your authority concerning your statements.

              I don't understand your insistence in distorting the tone of my responses to the offensive. Odd.

              • Socrates

                I am not an expert. Therefore, I have no authority.

                I am telling you things from first-hand knowledge.

                Sorry if you feel that my tone is off. Maybe it is. I know shareholders and board members in some of these energy companies. Many on my sources cannot be revealed. Some can.

                I usually know what I am talking about… Not always.

                I enjoy your reading your posts. I disagree that the fight is lost environmentally or legally, but the situation looks really bad. I do understand what Thomas Jefferson. Said in the Declaration of Independence about changing the government. The only problem was that he held slaves and was very authoritarian at times.

                Talk is cheap. I like action. But I also like a good strategy.

                I see many guys running around with talk of revolution. I prefer to work within the system. Most revolutions have not unseated the Oligarchy.

                I am sorry not to be able to establish authority, because I have none, but I hope you find that I am credible and sincere.

                Best to you, and, if you provide an email, I could forward technical information to you as well. I do not think you are worried about vibrations in reactors that have been shutdow. JoyB might be.

                • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                  You like reading my posts? Really? How odd. You wouldn't be studying me would you? Writing a book? 😮

                  To dispel any confusion over my leanings, I'm a firm believer in laws and that laws are only useful if they're strictly enforced without delay or bias.

                  U.S.C Title 18 section 242
                  Read it – Understand it – Enforce it!

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              "You sit at a keyboard talking revolution." In view of the fact that such allegations carry serious consequences I think you should be very careful what you say. Please show me what constitutes proof of my revolutionary talk.

              "Go start it without me." Start what? Be more specific.

              "Lead your own little parade." My, that's a tad belittling. 🙂

  • We Not They Finally

    So Chris Harris (above article) is saying that the water did not even HAVE to flow through the three forever-deadly coriums to forever poison the Pacific Ocean? It could just flow through residue left in the reactors to get exponentially more and more lethal?

    Then what if they are flowing through the coriums, yes, TOO? And what about the whole plant site turning as soggy as marshland? Does THAT water then somehow go NOWHERE?

    Did he even think this through? It's THIS that's "the even worse news"? Is this even demonstrable to a third grade science class?

    And then do we get told, oh, you see, those coriums, not even a worry! The REAL worry is water gushing through the residue in the emptied-out reactors?!

    But then again, if I can just twist my brain pretzel-y enough, I'm sure this will all make sense….

  • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

    I've long suspected that everyone & every living thing downwind & downstream of decimated nuke plants are more at risk than their host countries if they'd been shrewdly sited on coastlines allowing for wind & currents blowing & carrying the majority of the spewing,leaking,pouring shitium offshore and mostly away from the country of origin and onto the continents across the sea from them that coincidentally are also their economic competitors and aside from the initial contamination events & seasonal climatic differences in the usual jetstream patterns holding the air & waterborne contaminant transport mechanisms,they benefit from said siting choices by likely actually getting less follow-up fallout & accumulations via the plumes having gone around the world crapping on everyone else before lesser quantities make it back around to the country of its origin(?)!! 😐 It makes it easier for the bastards to continue their selfish & foul agenda's & ambitions while even allowing the illusion that they're recovering from the event & illnesses & mortality rate spikes can still remain hidden(for now)and the last election which put the worst possible candidate into power in Japan coupled with all of the other crap going on there that SHOULD'VE changed in the wake of the 311 ELE hasn't and keeps getting worse!(for the "innocent" population(s) there & the rest of their global community's victims at least!!). How can I and why SHOULD I ignore these obvious conclusions I've come…

    • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

      cont'd~ to??!! 🙁 As for the post stating "we'll be dead in 5 years" anyway- I've been struggling with the implications of the 100% BAD news constantly flowing from Japan at a lesser rate than their toxic shitium flowing away from Fukushima & straight into my loved ones cancer-riddled bodies that I've been blocked from holding accountable those who ARE responsible and yet I KNOW in my gut that it's not only the cause of my wife's cancer and now is all but guaranteed to further decrease the 31% chances she'd been given by her Dr.'s to survive the 5 years beginning with her diagnosis on Feb.12,2012!! 🙁 I hope I die BEFORE anyone else close to me does from this shit because it's tearing me apart inside and sound logic keeps me from having any chance of finding & maintaining any level of hope for an acceptable end to this ongoing event set to erase almost every form of life on Earth aside from weird things that seem to thrive on radiation! Whatever physical impacts the trolls & their nuke-puke mentors can dismiss or minimize cannot explain away or even attempt to downplay the psychological/spiritual damage 311 and their BS industry has done to me or anyone else who has to force themselves to eat or drink water & food ALL of which is "suspect" of being deadly-toxic to me now! Anyone who knew me before 311 also knows what this issue/event has done to me personally and I'm sure I'm not alone here in that regard either!! 🙁 TAKE CARE & ALL THE BEST TO ALL OF MY…

  • I think everyone following this story over the years know radiated water is polluting the pacific. No expert needed. However it is this acceptance of the destruction of this planet for economic gain that is the root cause. Fukushima is only one aspect of his phenomena. Not sure where the tipping point is or if we have passed the point of no return. Boycott their economy. Is a good first step. Peace.

    • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

      +311 Mark!; I have mixed feelings about Japan ranging from feeling sorry for them re; the disaster(s) on one hand & wish the best for the victims there,but on the other hand I loathe them for having elected the worst POS possible even AFTER 311 should have proven to them that the last thing they,or the world needed now was an asshole like Abe at the helm??!! One thing is certain though,I've lost the sense of envy & respect for their culture & intellect after their faults & incompetence was exposed by the handling of Fukushima/311 and the way they obediently sit quietly waiting for the impacts of their ways to kill them & most of the rest of us in the world who don't accept apologies coupled with apathy in lieu of the absence of the appropriate measures they still haven't taken or even tried is unacceptable to me and their materialism disgusts me as much as my own nation's BS ways of making us kill ourselves to live! Death seems much more welcome than the kind of "life" I expect will become the new,post-311 reality!! 😐 I guess common-sense is too much to ask of ANY people & culture??!! 🙁

      • "common sense" translates into "gesunder Menschenverstand" in German. Translated back literally, it would be something like "healthy/sound minds of people/humans".
        I wonder if anything such as *healthy* mind has ever existed in our species ?

    • Not Japan economy but world economy putting money over planet and people.

  • Nick

    Fukushima has revealed a deep dichotomy in the way humans think.

    If you ever doubted your sanity, now is the time.

    Fukushima is on a scale beyond comprehension.

    Your very brainwaves are possibly being altered (albeit on the quantum level) with each onslaught of ionizing wind and water.

    We are TOLD that the fear of radiation is worse than the actual dose.

    Total, 100% bullshit.

    No, folks who know me, know that I carry the Fukushima gospel with me wherever I go.

    Example: At a coffee shop… "What type of coffee would you like.?"

    Me: "I'll take the one with the least amount of Fukushima fallout.?"

    Clerk: "?"

    Me: "Well, look at the jet stream over the past three years, blah, blah"

    Clerk: "Oh… I guess a Central American brew might fit the bill?"

    Me: "OK"

    Clerk: "Have a nice day."

    Me: "No thanks, my entire planet is screwed, I just can't be exactly bright and cheery these days."

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    We are not alone. Might as well be.

  • shamwow shamwow

    I read an interesting article (have to find it again) on why humans are possibly not native to earth and are in reality an invasive species. Our condition is similar to the rabbits introduced to Australia in the 19 hundreds. They multiplied at alarming rates and ate everything in sight and would have destroyed the continent if they had not been stopped.

    The argument is that we are completely unsuited to our environment; needing clothing, shelter and fire to survive. Man is very susceptible to disease as well and is the only mammal needing assistance in giving birth, coupled with a very high mortality rate in doing so. In the article there are a lot more arguments made to support this notion of us being unsuited to life on earth.

    If this theory is taken on face value it would explain our utter contempt for the environment. Why we as a species don't even think twice about destroying the ecology, polluting our environment and finally killing the planet with radiation.

    We care more about profits then our “home”, the earth.

    No other species behaves this way. We might be aliens.

    How we got here is another question.

    • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

      The earth history is full of violence. Maybe it is our job to work through the violence. We are thus stuck with our most remote ancestors, the volcanoes, the hits by asteroids fragments, the tectonic plates dancing about . . . all that catastrophe is coming up in our minds . . . We bear the earth's instinctive past and are trying to transform it into thoughts of intellect. Nuclear bombs are mementos of past violent earth deeds. Etc. So while the earth in some places on a beautiful day looks lovable, there is also hidden away this tendency to destruction. The super-volcano at Yellow Stone National Park may without warning awake and destroy North America. You will worship that God? Or maybe the sun will throw a Carrington class solar flare earthward. Or unleash a new terrible plague. Mother Kali with her necklace of human skulls drinking fermented human blood. Shall we worship her? Krishna says he is the destroyer of worlds. Must we not believe him? I think so.

    • Shaker1

      I'll be brief. Those 'aliens' could have been us, or what you see today as this particular stage of evolutionary movement. Speculating that we've always been what you see (no hair, etc.) is simply wrong. There's realively recent (within the last 50,000 years) evidence that 'we' have definitely changed. And who can really have insight into the depths of time, especially with the lack of humility for the immensity for which the article intends to present reason? I might pose that even such speculation outside of the last 10,000 years might be in itself an example of a lack of humility, though their speculations may be correct. If one looks into myths and even today's conventions with an eye to them being something more than imagination, one sees that what a 'man' may have seen and may have been 500,000 years ago is guesswork from few facts. For instance, as a convention today that might not make too much sense is the use of 360 in helping to define a circle. Evidence, again speculative based upon few facts, supports the view that 360 was practical number at one time as the year was closer to 360 days long, and not 365 1/4 as it is now. Remember, the accepted number for discernable writing spans about 6,500 years. Even at that, there are things we are taught, such as the planets' orbits being eliptical, which is only half the description, as the planets' orbits plotted in space are an eliptical helix. Eveything moves. Enjoy the speculation, but, as I'm sure you do,…

  • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

    Imagine you are enrolled in an advanced nuclear engineering class with an emphasis on reactor design and melt down. Your final test is to "solve" the Fukushima Daiichi problem–in three hours. The solution has to be total. That is, what steps to take immediately and thereafter until it has been solved as much as possible. Remember that a month of classes was devoted to the situation at Chernobyl. You really need an A. Do your best.
    Now imagine you were a homeless person wandering around Tokyo one night when two men of the sort you never argue with approached you with an offer you dared not refuse. You are now in Fukushima wearing the first new clothes you have had since you ran away from home twenty years ago. And you have had a good breakfast for a change. Your job is not clear but you are trudging along with several other noteworthy homeless men and one woman.
    Finally imagine that you are a fetus inside a woman who lives on an island that has gotten a good dose of Fukushima plume. You know some strange things are happening in your cells, and you are considering bailing. This may not be the womb and time for you. But you are also intrigued. You were a dedicated doctor in your previous life in Germany. You want to study this phenomenon. One of the guardians has told you about the radioactive particles your mother breathed in a while back. So you may stick around and come out distorted.
    Now imagine you are reading this and are puzzled. Which story best…

  • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

    …suits you or fits your needs?

  • babbo dorian babbo dorian

    In my opinion, what tepco/gov are doing, including the very well planed stage of taking out the rods from the spf4 is ……. pretend that they are doing something for invoicing and revenue and profit out of the pockets of tax payers…… since they all know that the radiation spreading is unstopable.
    And there is not forseeable solution to it in the whole world.
    And in the meantime, while they can…… will profit from their "activities"

  • You and Me You and Me

    New Name – Old Poster

    Hate to be the bearer of FUCKED UP NEWS
    Keystone XL Pipeline Clears Major Hurdle After State Department Report Raises No Major Objections

    THIS was enough to make me register again just to let you all know.


  • unincredulous unincredulous

    My wild hair for the day:

    Electroplate Fukushima power plant with gold, through and through. It may take all the gold in the world. Just give it the old Tesla "free power for everyone" model. The one where sparks were flying out of fire hydrants…

    Why? I read that the reactor core containment was supposed to be plated with gold to stop the neutrons or something.

    Think mankind has it in him to give up all his shiny trinkets?

    • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

      You could make a hat maybe, but irradiated gold might turn the color of tin 😉

      Hey…pulled this word out of FOIA docs…


      It's what zirc fuel rods do.

  • AirSepTech AirSepTech

    Dabbling in the supernatural, while being unable to control nature itself, is a recipe for disaster.

    And nature is showing us why.

    Needs to get fixed, 3 years polluting, not good. Spread the word.

  • eyeb1 eyeb1

    best single source that i have found explaining .. how the sheeple came to be ..

    <a href="; title="The Underground History of American Education">

    which has been implemented globally by the .001%

  • guevara3712

    saw a lot of almost infighting on here today. i challenge every one of you to find a way to stop paying your corporate power bills. no personal attacks meant since i don't know any of you personally. if you are coming up with these great ways to defeat the military industrial complex while paying them monthly, that's what we call talking out of both sides of our experience has been that many have big words, and pay the nuclearites monthly for the ability to post them on the internet. freedom from this brand of oppression will only come with literal personal empowerment, i.e, personal power sources. that's freedom.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar VanneV

      My town owns its own source of electricity. And there is no nuclear energy anywhere in my state of Colorado.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar VanneV

      Well, we obviously know this how shills operate having seen enough of them. They are also on classes on energy, and they use straw arguments in the discussion forums, etc.

      Anyway, whatever the real propaganda was supposed to be about, this is the latest development.

      “Thread is close and hoaxed. The author admitted in a private exchange that the entire story was fabricated.”

      Because this self-confessed shill said what he was shilling about, the propaganda sees a shill attempt to persuade people to be anti-Israel.

      Shills do promote certain political positions and advocate nuclear energy, and….

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    .. 🙂

  • Keep it simple

    Get active, shut them down.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes we deserve better and they all worldwide need to be shut down via international law! 🙂