Nuclear engineers urging IAEA to create “Level 8″ on INES scale for Fukushima

Published: June 2nd, 2011 at 4:11 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
166 comments


Linda Moulton Howe interviews Scott Portzline, security consultant to Three Mile Island Alert, Coast to Coast AM, May 26, 2011:

At 32:45 in (Transcript Summary)

  • Nuclear engineers urging IAEA to create level 8 for Fukushima
  • Multiple source terms from multiple sources
  • 3 reactors with core melt accidents, likely meltdown through the vessels… Spent fuel pool accidents in 4 units

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkXL59tfNi4

Published: June 2nd, 2011 at 4:11 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
166 comments

Related Posts

  1. Fukushima crisis level raised — Now 6 on INES scale March 24, 2011
  2. Experts: Contamination from Fukushima worse than Chernobyl — Many people say 2051 goal “unrealistic” given scale of catastrophe… “Will I be alive when it’s completed?” December 21, 2011
  3. Japan raises Fukushima to Level 7, same as Chernobyl April 11, 2011
  4. Japan gov’t now considering raising Fukushima’s nuclear crisis level to “most severe” April 11, 2011
  5. *Flashback* Nuke expert who worked at IAEA: I can now speak freely — “Fukushima is as serious as Chernobyl” October 16, 2011

166 comments to Nuclear engineers urging IAEA to create “Level 8″ on INES scale for Fukushima

  • Moco

    Yeah, give it an eight double plus, while your at it.
    Or better yet, let S and P or Moodys give a downgrade to C++.
    Nuclear boneheads, worrying about ratings?
    Find a fix or some purpose in your life, or shut the fuck up.
    What a bunch of morons. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.


    Report comment

  • tony wilson

    got to be a 10 at least i vote for a 10.
    any better more scientific requests?
    don’t say run for the hills cos the hill”s are alive with the decay of.

    iodine-131 8.0 d 739,000
    ruthenium-103 39.3 d 1,200
    ruthenium-106 368.2 d 390
    cobalt-60 5.3 y 1
    zirconium-95 64.0 d 1,200
    iodine-132 2.3 h 3,820
    cerium-144 284.3 d 3,770
    cesium-137 30.0 y 42
    strontium-90 29.1 y 64
    yttrium-91 58.5 d -
    strontium-89 50.5 d 700
    barium-140 12.7 d -
    niobium-95 35.2 d -
    tellurium-129m 33.6 d -
    cerium-141 32.5 d -
    plutonium-239 24,065 y 2
    xenon-133 5.3 d 418,000
    praseodymium-143 13.6 d -
    lanthanum-140 40.3 h -
    cesium-134 2.1 y -
    neodymium-147 11 d -
    plutonium-240 6,540 y -
    iodine-129 15,700,000 y 46
    plutonium-241 14.4 y -
    antimony-125 2.8 y -
    tellurium-132 78.2 h -
    cesium-136 13.1 d -
    promethium-148m 41.3 d -
    plutonium-238 87.7 y -
    promethium-147 2.6 y -
    europium-154 8.8 y -
    xenon-131 11.9 d -
    silver-111 7.5 d -
    tin-125 9.6 d -
    cadmium-115m 44.6 d -
    iron-59 44.5 d -
    yttrium-90 64.0 h -
    tellurium-125m 58 d -
    europium-155 5 y -
    niobium-95m 88.6 h -
    neptunium-239 2.4 d -
    promethium-148 5.4 d -
    silver-110m 249.9 d -
    krypton-85 10.7 y 18,500,000
    uranium-238 4,470,000,000 y -
    americium-241 432.3 y -
    molybdenum-99 66.0 h -
    neptunium-237 2,140,000 y -
    rubidium-86 18.7 d -
    antimony-124 60.2 d -
    cobalt-58 70.8 d -
    curium-242 162.8 d -
    manganese-54 312.5 d -
    praseodymium-144 17.3 m -
    xenon-133m 2.2 d -
    tin-126 10,000 y -
    iron-55 2.7 y -
    tin-119m 293 d -
    uranium-235 703,800,000 y -
    technetium-99 213,000 y -
    europium-152 13.3 y -
    samarium-151 90 y -
    rhodium-106 29.9 s -
    uranium-236 23,400,00 y -
    rhodium-103m 56.1 m -
    silver 108m 127 y -
    barium-137m 2.6 m -
    tellurium-129 69.6 m -
    promethium-149 53.1 h -
    technetium-99m 6.0 h -
    thorium-234 24.1 d -
    plutonium-236 2.9 y -
    iodine-133 20.8 h -
    curium-244 18.1 y -
    plutonium-242 376,000 -
    cadmium-115 53.5 h -
    americium-243 7,380 y -
    zinc-65 243.9 d -
    cesium-132 6.5 d…


    Report comment

    • Awesome – good reporting!


      Report comment

    • Sickputer

      Great list! I didn’t realize there were that many. Maybe add tritium? Breakfast of champions around the office water cooler from the nuclear power plant office building drinking water well at Vermont Yankee in Connecticut (they plugged the drinking water well and now drink Ozarka) >;-)

      http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1230944&srvc=business&position=recent

      Cheers,

      SP


      Report comment

    • fireguyjeff

      Excellent list Tony!!!
      What is the last number???
      element|half life|????


      Report comment

    • WindorSolarPlease

      Hi Tony Wilson,

      Is this everything that is spewing from Japan??

      I knew this disaster is horrific, but this list of things are horrible !!!!

      Thank you for the list


      Report comment

    • Noah

      Progress Report

      Dust Reduction on Car Surface

      Completed continuous ground for auto to reduce negative frame and body surface charge.

      Treated car surface with chemical that diminishes static accumulation.

      Negatively charged surfaces tend to attract positively charged radioactive particles in rain, dust and dirt, resulting in the cars surface acting as a collector plate.

      So far, since grounding and surface anti-static treatment, the car has remained cleaner, longer. This is good news.

      Also, working on creating or finding a positive field generator for the cars metallic body. Possible application for a personal battery operated positive field generator used with garments woven with silver/titanium cloth.

      Custom Nasal Passage Particle Filters

      Testing of design proto-types continues, more difficulties with anchoring and bio compatible filtration media.

      Constant Ground for city walking

      Experimental use of static conducting rubber and ankle strapping to ground person while walking. Hope to reduce static charge in clothing and eye tissue & skin to reduce attractiveness to positively charged radioactive particles.


      Report comment

      • xdrfox

        I remember them days when the car would shock you when reaching for the handle ! lol

        So cool to go back to static hangs on cars ! lol


        Report comment

        • Noah

          Xdrfox, Mrs. Noah still gets shocked by her car! I have to ground her car too.

          I know people who will be driving behind will wonder what the heck that black strap hanging down is, maybe I’ll put an ad on it.


          Report comment

          • Lill

            i miss static hangs! every flipping thing tends to shock me. even been shocked walking past the closet; the door frame somehow zapped me. that and the Christmas tree.. and just about everything else i walk past or try to touch. o.o

            Noah, i think i’ll buy 4; one for each extremity. the kiddo hates being shocked just trying to get a hug or a kiss from me.


            Report comment

          • xdrfox

            Noah
            How about some Curb Feelers ! lol


            Report comment

        • xdrfox

          Lill
          Do not forget the one for the grocery chart ! lol


          Report comment

      • Noah

        Why is a cleaner car important?

        I park my car in my garage which is enclosed. Technically, by driving a car full of radioactive particles attached to it’s surface into an enclosed attached garage, I am bringing radiation into my home.

        Cleaner car, less radioactive dust, less chance of inhalation and ingestion.


        Report comment

    • Jim Piver

      Nice list Tony! Good job!

      (I’m very skeerd)


      Report comment

      • tony wilson

        no need to be afraid iaea say atoms are good for you.
        these isotopes are kind of like trace minerals.look at them like a free isotonic health drink every day for the next 5 years.
        that is if the buildings stay up.
        maybe isotonic is a bad example as these elements do kind of make you tired and hazy.
        maybe more like a lithium and prozac cocktail.
        which will certainly help quell those rioters and environmental greenpeace types.


        Report comment

  • confused californian

    what does this fix? what does this help? nothing, absolutely NOTHING. leave it where it’s at, just say it’s worse than Chernobyl and get on with it.


    Report comment

    • Reality is there is no fix at the moment so don’t stress out waiting or expecting one.


      Report comment

      • WindorSolarPlease

        I think your list puts things in perspective, maybe it will wake some people up to be prepared or that we should not have Nuclear Power.
        I’m glad you made that list, thank you.

        Only a miracle can fix this mess


        Report comment

    • confused californian

      i know anthony. that is why i say get on with it. there are some that say it’s either the same as chernobyl or not as bad, but we know it is much worse, so they need to quit worrying about where to put this on the scale and get back to finding some sort of way out of this. any way out, just find a way that works. that is what they should be worried about, not just what level this is.


      Report comment

  • So this means the disaster is the *worst ever* then. It is great to hear nuclear physicists speaking up finally too. I think we will have to go higher than 8 though….


    Report comment

  • Chernobyl was a level 7.

    This one is 50 Chernobyls.

    That means 350 on the new INES scale.


    Report comment

      • When you think of it, if you have one Chernobyl, checkmark that as a level 7.

        Now, get a second Chernobyl and put that right beside it.

        What level are we talking now?

        It’s really indefinable, or uncategorizable.

        (i.e. a “holy shit!” level with no assignable numerical value).


        Report comment

    • Bob Hardin

      How do you arrive at that 50x Chernobyl figure?

      I have read four different numbers for nuclear fuel stored at Fukushima: 1760 tons, 2000 tons, over 4000 tons, and over 5000 tons. I have seen two figures for Chernobyl: 180 tons and about 50 tons. I believe you are using the 5000 ton figure for Fukushima and the 50 ton figure for Chernobyl.

      This is a very important issue, because the world might be able to handle a meltdown that was 10 times Chernobyl, but one that was 50 times Chernobyl would be the end of life on earth.

      Can you–or any other readers–give me reliable sources for your numbers?


      Report comment

      • Haven’t really fact-checked it, but I think it came from this article:

        http://originaldialogue.blogspot.com/2011/05/fukushima-50-times-worse-than-chernobyl.html

        Fukushima Daiichi Equals 50 Plus Chernobyls
        As Dr. Michio Kaku, a world renowned CUNY theoretical physicist pointed out on CNN March 18, 2011, Chernobyl involved one reactor and only 57.6 Tons of the reactor core went into the atmosphere. In dramatic contrast, the Fukushima Daiichi disaster immediately involved six reactors and IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency, a UN Agency) documented 2,800 Tons of highly radioactive old reactor cores.

        Dr Michio Kaku, theoretical physicist FavStocks
        Simple division tells us there are at least 48.6 Chernobyls in the burning old reactor cores pumping fiery isotopes into the Earth’s atmosphere. It is no stretch to say Fukushima Daiichi’s six reactors and the dry holding pools for old reactor cores are equal to more than 50 Chernobyl disasters.
        Further clarification is needed, of course, and it is being worked out now by independent physicists. Note that the lethality of radioactive reactor cores goes up the first 250,000 years they are out of the reactor – not down.


        Report comment

      • On May 28, 2011, the astonishing, must read report from Bob Nichols at Veterans Today, Fukushima: How Many Chernobyls Is It?.

        [Snip]

        **** As Dr. Michio Kaku, a world renowned CUNY theoretical physicist pointed out on CNN March 18, 2011, Chernobyl involved one reactor and only 57.6 Tons of the reactor core went into the atmosphere. In dramatic contrast, the Fukushima Daiichi disaster immediately involved six reactors and IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency, a UN Agency) documented 2,800 Tons of highly radioactive old reactor cores.

        Simple division tells us there are at least 48.6 Chernobyls in the burning old reactor cores pumping fiery isotopes into the Earth’s atmosphere. It is no stretch to say Fukushima Daiichi’s six reactors and the dry holding pools for old reactor cores are equal to more than 50 Chernobyl disasters.

        Further clarification is needed, of course, and it is being worked out now by independent physicists. Note that the lethality of radioactive reactor cores goes up the first 250,000 years they are out of the reactor – not down.

        Looking at the current Japanese meltdown as more than 50 Chernobyls is just the start. In addition, the fate of the four nearby reactors at Fukushima Daini is as yet unknown by the outside world. Working at the nearby reactors, only 10 km (6 miles away) is a quick, painful death sentence. They are inside the mandatory evacuation zone.****

        http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2011/06/fukushima-more-than-50-chernobyls-epa-renews-monitoring-fukushima-related-radiation-levels/


        Report comment

      • Shy

        @Bob Hardin — with respect.

        Your Words: “50 times Chernobyl would be the end of life on earth.”

        Presuming every molecule were blown into the air, I suppose?

        Please help me “to spread the word” by pointing me to your sources.

        If you were guessing, that’s OK, but if you weren’t, then where’s your proof, a quote or reference or something to convince a thinking person?

        You might not believe it, but many mental cases have been spewing bullshit here.

        I doubt that you are one of those, which is why I’m hopeful you will help.

        People lacking evidence are people who are guessing. I don’t know enough to tell who’s who.

        Thank you in advance.


        Report comment

        • Think about it! If Fukushima completely goes unchecked – all the reactors and pools, it would be the volume equivalent of more than 50 reactors melting down and emitting – probably till the end of human’s time on Earth. We wouldn’t even be able to approach Japan to do anything to stop it at that stage, Japan would be vibrantly radiated and hot as hell. I for one would not want to be in Japan at that time either for obvious reasons.

          Can you appreciate 50 MELTDOWNS at once? That’s our biggest concern as this adds one bad event on top of the one before. Reality is, our dark picture has a likelihood of presenting just like that, unfortunately.


          Report comment

          • Shy

            Thanks Anthony:

            Your reasoning seems plausible, but when it comes to global death, I want to be exactly right before I tell my kin.

            According to Michio Kaku, who spoke on television, in a worst-case scenario, “we would have lost Northern Japan.”

            Michio Kaku did not say “we would have lost the world.” He did not say “we would have lost the islands of Japan.”

            Are you saying Chernobyl killed 1/50 of the earth (50 X 1/50 = 100%)? For if that’s true, then I’m convinced you’re right.

            In any case, I thank you for your time and excellent writing.

            Please be patient with me: I am just a doddering fool, unafraid of my own death, but what about my kids and their families?


            Report comment

          • Dear Shy

            Well I am no expert but I am a decent human, like yourself. With that in mind, understand I cant speak to the totality of Chernobyl and its reach but I can tell you that the sheer volume of poisons at hand loads the bases in one direction for my thinking process.

            You can stay, there would be nothing wrong with that if it is your truth. We have the luxury of being a little out of the direct nature of the contamination.

            I think the passions you read here are because most of us have been aware, or are being made aware, of both the extent of the disaster as well as the extent the media and govts have gone to in minimizing even the most basic facts, directions and info relating to the meltdowns. And to be frank, lies have been copiously applied in the concealment strategy which motivates a suspicion as to the reality of the situation.

            Your govt has stated they deliberately held back key facts (ie – three total meltdowns for 30+ days) and from our vantage point our concern is more for the people who seem otherwise almost oblivious to what appears to us to be certain & eminent danger. On the other hand maybe we are all wrong about how this will unfold.

            I know you will do what’s right for you.


            Report comment

          • SHY

            @Anthony

            I think a world with you in it is worth saving.


            Report comment

          • Shy,

            You are talking about kids and family… so if you have the stomach, take a look at this link to google images of what radiation does to mutate the Human creature reproductively. I am not trying to be a shock jock, but a picture in this case speaks volumes more than any post I could write to explain my concern for Japan at this time.

            http://www.google.ca/search?q=birth+defects+and+radiation&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=1z3&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=WH3oTbb0JKXUiALn4-mKAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBIQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=681


            Report comment

    • pat b

      given the scale is roughlt Logarithmic,
      this is a level 9-10 incident


      Report comment

  • HOTTER WITHOUT LIMIT

    I think someone was maligning physicsforum for some odd reason, but, as below, there is some discussion going on there that is much more ALARMING than you might run across here.

    “So the entire mass — original corium plus mixed concrete — will continue to get hotter and hotter without limit”

    http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=480200&highlight=fukushima&page=543

    In post #7728 Jorge Stolfi offered this version of events:

    “If you dilute very hot molten metal with cooler molten stuff, such as concrete, it will immediatly cool down and remain cool. If you confine a ton of liquid metal in a closed container, it will stay there and slowly cool down. If you cool the surface of a lump of lava, it will form a solid, relatively cool crust and then slowly cool down throughout.

    None of these “common sense facts” seem to apply to corium, because its radioactive contents will continue to generate heat from “nowhere” at the same total rate, no matter how much it is diluted or how it is confined. (Mixing with boron can prevent it becoming critical but has absolutely no effect on the decay heat generation.) If that heat has nowhere else to go, the corium will keep getting hotter and hotter until it boild away. (And even then the vaporized material will continue generating heat at the same rate.) If you dlute the corium 100 fold with molten concrete, and then keep that mass isolated, the rate at which its temperature increases with time will be reduced a 100 fold perhaps, but it will remain positive.

    So the entire mass — original corium plus mixed concrete — will continue to get hotter and hotter without limit; it will only take 3 months to reach the boiling point, instead of a day.”

    Also, in this case, the groundwater has apparently risen up to make contact with the corium instead of the more expected version of the process.
    not sure that i would be total agreement that the above quote is what is going…


    Report comment

    • fireguyjeff

      —–Without limit—–
      When some one says this, I put them on my ignore list.
      No such thing in this game as “no limit”.
      100 years is a limit.
      1 Million years is a limit.
      Prefacing with “practical” changes the context significantly, i.e. “no practical limit”.

      All of us need a lot more than the usual level of discernment on this problem in terms of who is saying what. This situation is ripe for grandiose statements coming from someone who has collected enough vocabulary to sound credible, yet they really don’t have a good grasp of what they are talking about. And the latter can sound just as credible and believable as Prof. Kaku.

      I deal with this a lot in the Zero Point Energy crowd where the BS can be deep enough to require more than chest waders. And it is mixed in with very real and credible sources, yet very hard to separate unless one has a deep understanding of the scientific and engineering fundamentals.


      Report comment

    • I think this is the truth of the matter – thanks for posting.


      Report comment

  • STEAM VOLCANO

    Originally Posted by Quim
    In post #7728 Jorge Stolfi offered this version of events:

    “If you dilute very hot molten metal with cooler molten stuff, such as concrete, it will immediatly cool down and remain cool. If you confine a ton of liquid metal in a closed container, it will stay there and slowly cool down. If you cool the surface of a lump of lava, it will form a solid, relatively cool crust and then slowly cool down throughout.

    None of these “common sense facts” seem to apply to corium, because its radioactive contents will continue to generate heat from “nowhere” at the same total rate, no matter how much it is diluted or how it is confined. (Mixing with boron can prevent it becoming critical but has absolutely no effect on the decay heat generation.) If that heat has nowhere else to go, the corium will keep getting hotter and hotter until it boild away. (And even then the vaporized material will continue generating heat at the same rate.) If you dlute the corium 100 fold with molten concrete, and then keep that mass isolated, the rate at which its temperature increases with time will be reduced a 100 fold perhaps, but it will remain positive.

    So the entire mass — original corium plus mixed concrete — will continue to get hotter and hotter without limit; it will only take 3 months to reach the boiling point, instead of a day.”

    Also, in this case, the groundwater has apparently risen up to make contact with the corium instead of the more expected version of the process.
    —————
    [THREAD CONTINUES]

    Absent any outside cooling, this would surely be true.

    However, TEPCO has been jumping through hoops for the past 12 weeks to ensure that outside cooling was always present. That suggests a truce of sorts is currently in effect, with the corium getting enough cooling the keep it in place.
    Of course, TEPCO is now struggling to find places to put the massively contaminated water produced by this cooling…


    Report comment

    • Absent any outside cooling, this would surely be true.
      However, TEPCO has been jumping through hoops for the past 12 weeks to ensure that outside cooling was always present. That suggests a truce of sorts is currently in effect, with the corium getting enough cooling the keep it in place.
      Of course, TEPCO is now struggling to find places to put the massively contaminated water produced by this cooling. If the ground water rises up as suggested, it might have the unwanted effect of reducing the corium cooling, as there would no longer be a flow to carry the hot water away. Not sure how that plays out, sort of a steam volcano, but only powered by 4-6 megawatts of decay heat.


      Report comment

      • Bob Hardin

        A steam explosion when the corium contacts the groundwater. That’s what I expect. Why hasn’t that happened yet? Because of the water they’ve been pumping? Because of the concrete mix? From what I’ve read, the groundwater is very close to the nuclear plants.


        Report comment

    • pat b

      assume radiative cooling under the stefan-Boltzmann law.
      the more you mix with the corium, the more the surface area increases, until the power disspiated/unit area matches the
      carrying capacity of the local conditions.

      consider if you took a piece of corium, very small, very radioactive, producing phenomenal energy, it may boil the water at it’s surface if submerged and keep generating heat, but,
      if you mixed it 100:1 with say just aluminum, it would now be part of a big aluminum sphere, and it would couple heat into the water and cease boiling, instead it would just be a very hot ball, because the area has increased so much.


      Report comment

      • VERY IMPRESSIVE

        pat b — wow, thank you.

        We need to hear more from you frequently. People who know “the technical side” are somewhat rare around here.

        People with desire to create a better world are grateful for dispassionate facts from people who really KNOW something.


        Report comment

      • Dr. Strangleglove

        Assume this!


        Report comment

  • Timeline of events in Japan

    Published: Jun 1, 2011

    The strongest earthquake ever recorded in Japan at a magnitude of 8.9 struck the country on March 11. Below is a timeline of events following the earthquake and tsunami and the effect on nuclear power plants in Japan.

    http://www.powergenworldwide.com/index/display/articledisplay/6930140102/articles/powergenworldwide/nuclear/reactors/2011/05/Japan-nuke-timeline.html


    Report comment

  • IAEA confirms meltdown at Japan’s Fukushima
    Thu Jun 2, 2011 4:8PM

    Video story

    http://www.presstv.com/detail/182908.html


    Report comment

  • Nuclear Energy in Asia: A Post-Fukushima Perspective
    Tuesday, 31 May 2011 00:00 Hooman Peimani
    ****Asian reaction to the Fukushima accident
    Fukushima has created a sense of panic in many parts of the world. This is especially true in North America and Europe, which have not been major nuclear enthusiasts for decades. The major exception to this has been France, which produces about 75% of its electricity from nuclear reactors. In the Asia-Pacific region, there is no indication of serious plans to reverse the regional nuclear power program or to downsize it. ****

    http://www.ensec.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=309:nuclear-energy-in-asia-a-post-fukushima-perspective&catid=116:content0411&Itemid=375


    Report comment

  • gaton

    If anyone needs substnces used in such situations (potassium iodide, prussian blue, ascorbic acid, activated carbon etc.) in bulk quantities please mail me (all questions via e-mail as well): gaton@wp.pl


    Report comment

  • Fukushima plant owners criticised by nuclear inspectors

    International Atomic Energy Agency report says weak emergency protocols intensified crisis after Japan earthquake

    Justin McCurry in Tokyo
    guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 1 June 2011 07.49 BST
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/01/fukushima-plant-criticised-nuclear-inspectors


    Report comment

  • Japanese Nuclear Crisis Seen Dragging Into 2012
    Tuesday, May 31, 2011

    The operator of Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is moving toward the conclusion that it will not be able to bring the damaged facility under control in 2011, Kyodo News reported on Monday (see GSN, May 27).

    http://www.globalsecuritynewswire.org/gsn/nw_20110531_3515.php


    Report comment

  • First IAEA report on Fukushima
    01 June 2011

    … no health effects have been reported in any person as a result of radiation exposure.” Weightman alluded to the possibility that the areas near the Fukushima Daiichi plant could return to normal, given proper planning and perhaps remediation. …

    (?)

    http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_First_IAEA_report_on_Fukushima_0106111.html


    Report comment

    • Yes, they might be able to wash it clean with another tsunami.


      Report comment

      • Actually, another tsunami would probably be the worst disaster imaginable, if it isn’t already.

        All the newly-set up equipment would be washed away putting reactors into free fall, on their own.

        Also looks to me like everything is already mixing with ground water.

        Green tea ceremony in Tokyo anyone?


        Report comment

    • OK the facts are we just read a story about how over 4000 citizens there have tested with levels over 10000, right?

      How can they elude there have been no harmful physical effects of this radiation?

      Isn’t the IAEA supposed to be overseeing the details of this situation for the world?

      Well if they went on a fact find and left drawing this conclusion… is anyone else out there kinda concerned as I am with this development?

      And here I was inspired to think the international community was stepping in and up to add something to the picture.

      We have had enough lies and half truths to last the rest of our potentially shortened lifetimes.


      Report comment

  • tony wilson

    In their report, the iaea inspectors also gave credit to Japan for its response to the Fukushima crisis : )
    as well as the way it handled the mass evacuations in
    areas surrounding the plant : )

    “Japan’s response to the nuclear accident has been exemplary, particularly (as) illustrated by the dedicated, determined and expert staff working under exceptional conditions,” the report said : )

    Mike Weightman, the IAEA team leader of truth, said the inspectors focused on finding lessons from the crisis that could be applied around the world : ) cool

    “You can make nuclear plants safe against natural events, but you have to understand those events,” he said.
    no shit sherlock

    Japanese officials offered full co-operation to the IAEA inspectors and welcomed the results of the preliminary report. really

    “I think there are many constructive suggestions in this report,” said Goshi Hosono, director of the government’s nuclear crisis taskelite flying circus bozo mr bean fall flat on face force.

    “We will read it thoroughly.”
    on the way to the lady boy bar.


    Report comment

  • THE RADIATION SONG Lyrics
    Artist(Band):The Aquabats

    The radiation in the ground
    Makes a lovely bubbly sound
    The men in suits
    Who don’t eat fruit
    Can’t comprehend
    The one-legged newt
    That was caused from disaster
    At reactor’s core
    A meltdown expected
    To start a war
    Now I bought myself
    A lead ascot
    It looks good but
    I’m startin’ to rot

    Hey you,
    With that green glow in your hair
    I swear I see a tear
    In your radiation wear
    Somehow it’s there

    Razorblade boomerangs
    And iron hands
    Crossbows and hockey pads
    Are in demand
    Toxic waste
    In synthetic place
    Can add an eyeball
    To your face

    Hey you,
    With that green glow in your hair
    I swear I see a tear
    In your radiation wear
    Somehow it’s there

    Hey me
    You know your gums
    Are starting to bleed
    I’ve got some shrink-to-fit
    Mutated genes
    And some bleak posterity
    If they end up like me

    I am Humongous..
    Everybody knows I own the wasteland
    And now may I introduce to you
    Benji The Tap-dancing Mutant boy
    (Go Benji, Go)

    “Hi I’m Benji
    I’m a tap-dancing mutant
    I wasn’t always like this
    I was born a normal boy
    But now I live in this world of joy!”

    It’s Benji from Peoria
    Don’t drink the water
    I implore ya
    But his mom and dad
    They were exposed
    And that’s how the neutrons grow

    Hey you
    With that green glow in your hair
    Well I swear I see a tear
    In your radiation wear
    Somehow it’s there

    Hey me
    You know your gums
    Are starting to bleed
    I’ve got some shrink-to-fit
    Mutated genes
    And some bleak posterity
    If they end up like me

    Just walk away…
    Just walk away…
    There’s been too much violence…
    Just walk away…


    Report comment

    • robbo

      hey you get a life
      or run down stairs and take a knife
      and go outside you sad sad guy
      the shop sells brains why dont you buy?
      stop scaremogering you foolish man
      stop telling everyone your plan
      cos we dont care for weirdos like you
      and for waste of spaces without a clue,
      so sit down one day and think of this
      if you think we care what you say,youve missed


      Report comment

    • 8th and Lamar

      Gotten into the peyote earlier than expected????

      P.S. that was a compliment – nice verse,dude.


      Report comment

  • FACTBOX-IAEA’s assessment of Japan’s nuclear disaster
    Wed Jun 1, 2011 9:13am GMT

    TOKYO, June 1 (Reuters) – A team of experts from the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nation’s nuclear safety agency, has urged a rethink of how nuclear facilities are built, run and regulated after reviewing the crisis at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi plant, which was badly damaged by an earthquake and tsunami in March.

    The 18-member IAEA team was led by Michael Weightman, head of Britain’s nuclear safety agency and consisted of nuclear safety experts from 12 countries including France, Russia, China and the United States.

    Following is a summary of the key findings of the team, which conducted the first external review of the Fukushima facility, which has still not been brought under control. The IAEA report was presented to Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Wednesday. [ID:nL3E7H110X]

    http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL3E7H114N20110601


    Report comment

  • SteveMT

    After this disaster, only two category designations matter.

    Level #1: Every lower level up to Chernobyl
    Level #2: Worse than Chernobyl

    That is my recommendation, that is if we survive this level #2. In this way, every nuclear accident will alert everyone to the damage, to tell the truth, and no holding back of information.


    Report comment

    • confused californian

      what do you mean if we survive? are we going to die tomorrow? next month? when are we expected to die from this?


      Report comment

      • SteveMT

        Levity, confused californian…levity. No panic here, just pragmatic realism. There is no way to stop whatever is happening or what is going to happen. That is all I meant.


        Report comment

        • confused californian

          i understand that. what do you mean ‘there is no way to stop whatever is happening or what is going to happen?’


          Report comment

          • Bob Hardin

            He means we are all fucked.


            Report comment

          • akdave

            californian this will play out for years at best, just hope for the best that no more big bangs come ?? for the most part Japan will be the one to bear the worst of this. No need to freak over this at this time keep a cool head take things one day at a time and always check all info you read or see before you jump, be glad for every day you have with your kids, wife, family, friends, you never know you could get hit by a bus.. and all this nuke worry would be for not. LOL just sayin don’t forget to live each day is all.


            Report comment

          • SteveMT

            Russian Antonov 225 Jets, Germany Putzmeister remoted-controlled 70-metre boom concrete pumping trucks, and let us not forget the Mega-float.

            Has any of this changed what has happened so far?


            Report comment

          • ROFL

            Bob Hardin’s got it.


            Report comment

      • Arizonan

        When our bodies internalize radioactive particles they cause damage to all of the cells near where they lodge. Sometimes it can take a few (3-5) years for effects to become apparent, and sometimes it takes 5-50 for health effects to show up. This continuous cellular damage may take the form of various cancers, or it may take the form of increased illnesses of other kinds, such as asmthma, diabetes, and immune system problems….If you ask Dr Helen Calidicott, she might also say that it might take thousands of years for us to die from it, as low levels of internalized ionizing radiation will also eventually affect the genome of all living things. That may not be an effect we see much of in our lifetimes though, those kinds of changes can take longer apparently. Would also recommend Rosalie Bertell’s classic, No Immediate Danger. Great book! Explains everything!


        Report comment

  • The great nuclear silence

    By Peter Speetjens on June 02, 2011

    Lessons to be learnt from Japan’s disaster fall on deaf ears

    http://www.executive-magazine.com/getarticle.php?article=14308


    Report comment

  • confused californian

    i find it funny that just because they are now in a way admitting this is worse than chernobyl some people are panicking as if that was not known from the beginning. just because they admit something doesn’t make it worse, and it doesn’t make anything better. on the scale it is what it is, just a number, it in now way truly describes the situation.


    Report comment

  • REFILE-UPDATE 1-UN report highlights Japan nuclear plant flaws

    Wed Jun 1, 2011 12:15am EDT

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/01/japan-nuclear-iaea-idUSL3E7H108620110601


    Report comment

  • Nuclear power ‘a long-term method to address energy crisis’
    JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA – May 30 2011 12:03

    Job creation
    Peters said African countries such as South Africa, Namibia, Niger and Gabon were rich in uranium needed to produce nuclear energy.

    “This gives the African states the confidence that they can rely on Africa for their uranium supplies,” she said. “This mineral must also benefit Africans through job creation. Partnership with all stakeholders in this value chain, including trade unions involved in mining of energy minerals, is essential.”

    The minister said the public’s confidence in nuclear power had been shaken by the tragedy in Japan where a large earthquake and tsunami in March crippled the Fukushima nuclear plant, causing releases of radioactivity.

    “All of us working in the nuclear field have an enormous task ahead of us to assure the public that nuclear power plants can be operated safely and to earn their trust,” she said.

    “It is our duty to work hard and communicate transparently about the risk of radiation and address the concerns raised by the Fukushima accident.”

    She warned, however, that this communication should not be “alarmist”. — Sapa

    http://mg.co.za/article/2011-05-30-nuclear-power-a-longterm-method-to-address-energy-crisis/


    Report comment

  • IAEA sees need to restore confidence in nuclear energy use, safety following Japan accident

    By: Melissa Eddy, The Associated Press

    Posted: 06/2/2011 7:00 AM

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/breakingnews/123013363.html


    Report comment

  • Gerry Hiles

    I was always an optimist and never a doomsayer, but this has changed gradually since the GFC (2008) when it became clear, to me at least, that there never could be a ‘recovery’ back to assumptions based on endless growth on our finite planet … so before Fukushima I was already pessimistic. But now?

    Utterly hopeless, because the scenario I cannot avoid in my mind has Fukushima as the tip of a global “iceberg” which will completely sink the delusional assumptions which generated this “Titanic” global civilization.

    Starting in Japan, as economies collapse so will the means to maintain nuclear reactors and store the waste products … so hundreds of reactors world-wide “left to their own devices”.

    It had to happen eventually, because no civilization has ever lasted beyond a tiny fraction of the time it takes for nuclear waste to become ‘harmless’.

    Perhaps “the gods” got impatient and hurried things along with Fukushima.


    Report comment

  • The Fukushima disaster and Japan Disincorporated

    By GREGORY CLARK Friday, June 3, 2011

    The Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant disaster is being used to convince the world that nuclear energy generation is inherently dangerous, especially in earthquake-prone Japan.

    But the two other nuclear plants facing the Japan quake area — Fukushima No. 2 and Onagawa — came though fairly unscathed even though the force of the quake well exceeded the level they had been built to withstand.

    The disaster at Fukushima No. 1 was due almost entirely to an act of unbelievable stupidity — placing a nuclear plant with its emergency power and pumping equipment on a coastline protected by a mere 5.7-meter sea wall in an area with a far-from-distant history of double-digit-size tsunamis.

    Admittedly the plant had been designed mainly by the U.S. General Electric Co., which, one assumes, would not have been quite as tsunami-conscious as its Japanese partners. But why did the Japanese side say or do nothing either then or later — despite frequent warnings of tsunami vulnerability, one reportedly only three years before the fatal accident?

    http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20110603gc.html


    Report comment

  • Sorry to jump the thread but did anyone else see the MASSIVE release of steam or smoke 5 minutes ago?

    geez–what is happening!


    Report comment

  • sorry I meant to write the crane in the background… :(


    Report comment

  • ocifferdave

    Level 8. That will get the press fired up about this finally. GOOD.


    Report comment

  • Heart of the Rose

    I think it can be said this stuff is outside the containment.
    http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html


    Report comment

  • I get all my fallout news from http://www.fukushimafallout.info plusy theres a live chat. thas how i found this news story.


    Report comment

  • http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=480200&highlight=fukushima&page=543

    Originally Posted by etudiant
    TEPCO has been jumping through hoops for the past 12 weeks to ensure that outside cooling was always present. That suggests a truce of sorts is currently in effect, with the corium getting enough cooling the keep it in place.
    True, but a compact molten mass is much harder to cool down than an intact core. Even if completely immersed in water, it may still remain molten and able to flow; it all depends on its size and heat generation. A solid crust will form, but it may be too thin to hold the mass in place. (Volcanic lava will flow underwater for a while, even at the bottom of the ocean.)

    In the best scenario, the fuel did not manage to breach the RPV (yet), and the drywell is flooded until the RPV bottom is underwater. The molten core is sitting at the bottom of the RPV, covered by water. Water pumped into the RPV mixes with the water inside, and the steam plus any excess water exits through some leak/pipe/breach on the side wall. Most of the heat produced by the corium will go into boiling the water inside the RPV, but some will be conducted through the RPV wall and heat/boil the surroudning water.

    A previous post analyzed this situation and (IIRC) concluded that heat conduction through the RPV wall woud be so low that the water next to its outside surface may not even get to boil. However, if the corium is molten, the steel on the inside surface of the RPV will be at the same temperature as the corium. If that is over 1500 C, then the steel will melt locally. Depending on the corium’s density, this layer of molten steel may float out of the way, exposing the steel underneath to the corium.

    Since the corium is producing heat at a nearly costant rate, its temperature will be nearly constant too; so this process could go on indefinitely, until the wall is breached.. If this is happening at all, the rate of progress may be very slow, and…


    Report comment

  • MyBrainIsWhacky

    You realise this video is pumping alien abductions … right?

    Yeah … great … what’s next?

    EEEEEEDIOTS!!


    Report comment

  • Godzilla

    Thanks for that analysis, PU239.

    I think the “Level 8″ thing is good for one reason only: it could get the general public, MSM, and political leaders to take this matter seriously, which they’re not doing. If it’s emphasized that it’s worse than Chernobyl or any other known nuclear reactor incident, and emphasized that Chernobyl is worse than the previous propaganda about Chernobyl, then there might arise a clamor to get things done.

    Right now there’s too much competition in the news from tornadoes (which IS actually important in the context of anthropogenic climate change), from the Middle East, and from various celebrity shenanigans.


    Report comment

    • flo

      sorry …but it will be quite the opposite effect.

      remember…mainstream media was touting the “positive” health effects of radiation shortly after this disaster stuck.

      if pushed to a level 8…the media would simply call it the “NEW normal” and promptly move on to more urgent matters… like snooki’s underwear or american idle.

      PLEASE,Remember: G.E. built these reactors…and also OWN N.B.C./UNIVERSAL and COMCAST (PLEASE….don’t expect them to ADVERTISE their own RADIOACTIVE FECES)

      ALSO…WE ARE IN FULL MEDIA “BLACKOUT” on FUKUSHIMA…LOOK AROUND!


      Report comment

    • MyBrainIsWhacky

      Look if they will go so far as to completely hide the video of No.4 exploding at about 5:45AM on March 15th, and they since misrepresent data, and present incomplete data, and unreliable data, and rad surveys that emit amost all but one compnent of the fall out constituents … do you really think a new adhoc nuclear emergency alert level would make a bit of difference to that despicable circus?

      Sorry. It won’t.


      Report comment

    • Jim Piver

      Oh, and don’t forget the oh-so-important Casey Anthony trial! GRrrrrr…..


      Report comment

  • AustralianCannonball

    A video I made about the leaks into the ocean. Sorry if I post onto more than 1 blog but I am in operation make people aware mode!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zBIjDpWN1Y


    Report comment

  • YN

    Well, I think you should discuss this basing on the quantity the radioactive materials that went out of the reactors and the size of polluted area, after the crisis gets to a kind of stable state.

    Though the total amount of the radioactive materials in the troubled reactors in Fukushima is much more than that of Chernoby, we are still not sure how much of them went out.

    (I guess it’s still less than
    Chernoby.)


    Report comment

    • YN

      Sorry, but let me correct a typo

      > Well, I think you should discuss this basing on the quantity [of] the radioactive materials that went out of the reactors …


      Report comment

  • ぬるぽ

    ふぐすま専用のレベル8が設置されたら名実ともに世界一か
    日本人として誇らしいよw


    Report comment

    • from tokyo

      来年には家に帰れるかも、
      と期待させてるメディアに洗脳されてる福島県民の目を覚ますのにはいいかもね

      あと、この期に及んで全て東電任せでもいいのだろうか…


      Report comment

    • ガッ!

      1ヶ月前、みんなはこれを鼻で笑っていた:

      【架空】国際評価尺度(INES)に「レベル8」(極めて深刻な事故)を追加【現時点では】
      http://techpr.cocolog-nifty.com/nakamura/2011/05/ines-4c1a.html


      Report comment

      • Google translation:
        1 month ago, everyone was laughing at this nose: [fictional] International rating scale (INES) to “Level 8″ (a very serious accident) at the moment – to add;

        ** Sorry – that’s what Google says…
        I’m glad you are here with us!
        私は、あなたが私たちと一緒にここでよかった!


        Report comment

      • from tokyo

        ですな
        二ヶ月前に
        「メルトダウンなんかする訳ないしw危険デマ、勉強してこい」
        とか言ってた奴当時もウザかった

        そんな奴は自分が英語できないでNHKを見ながらテプコの言う事信じるしかないからだろw


        Report comment

  • from tokyo

    maybe this will wake up the fukushima people..
    I saw the news that today at a conference the governor said “people won’t be able to live within the 20km zone”

    and some fukushima people claimed “don’t say such things which destroy our dreams!”

    errr.. >_>


    Report comment

    • tony wilson

      and some fukushima people claimed “don’t say such things which destroy our dreams!”

      i say fuck your dreams protect your kids and destroy no kan do and his corrupt government.


      Report comment

    • Arizonan

      it is because radwaste destroys dreams that some of the chernobyl hibakusha returned to their ancestral lands….despite the contamination and the health dangers. They tried living away, in the cities, but some have gone back to live near the edges of the exclusion zone….

      this accident has created a huge exclusion zone, and for the people of this region it is an enormous, heart-breaking tragedy. for those exposed, they will be the fukushima hibakusha.

      it may be easy for some americans to simply say, forget your dreams, protect your children….

      but the earth, the land, the place, is the heart and soul of a people. where does such a people go to protect their children, and their children’s children, down to the seventh generation? what do they eat? what do they drink? where do they go?

      still, all will unfold so slowly, so slowly….it will become difficult for humans to remember to sense danger in something that you cannot see, hear, taste or feel….

      my heart goes out to all affected by this tragedy…and especially to those who have permanently lost their ancestral lands. we in the US have received some fallout, but not in huge quantities…not that it matters…(even small quantities of internalized radionuclides will increase risk)….so perhaps we are all hibakusha now.

      but let no one doubt but that those closest to the nuclear plant have lost the most. please drop the harshness and send them as much loving and supportive energy as you can.


      Report comment

      • Arizonan

        Google Translation:

        アリゾナ州の
        2時13時2011年6月3日·返信

        放射性廃棄物は、チェルノブイリの被爆者の中には先祖の土地に戻って…。汚染と健康の危険にもかかわらず、夢を破壊するので、です。彼らは、都市部では、離れて暮らしてみましたいくつかは除外ゾーンの端の近くに住んで…帰ってしまっている。

        この事故は、巨大な除外ゾーンを作成しており、それは巨大な、心臓破りの悲劇であるこの地域の人々のために。それらが公開されるために、彼らは福島の被爆者になります。

        それは、いくつかのアメリカ人は単純に言うのは簡単かもしれないあなたの夢を忘れて、あなたの子供を守る…。

        地球が、土地、場所、心と人々の魂です。ここで、そのような人々は第七世代まで、子供たちの子供や、子供を保護するために行く?しない彼らは何を食べていますか?彼らは何を飲みますか?どこに行くのですか?

        まだ、すべてがとてもゆっくり、とてもゆっくり展開される…それは、人間には、表示されていない、味を聞いたり、感じて…何か危険を察知することを忘れないことは困難になります。

        私の心は誰が恒久的に先祖の土地を失っている…そして、特にこの悲劇によって影響を受けるすべてに出る。米国で私たちは膨大な量ではなく、いくつかの余波を受けている…それが重要なのかしないように…(内面化の放射性核種のも少量のリスクを増加する)…ので、おそらく我々は今、すべての被爆者です。

        しかし、しかし、誰も疑いを聞かせてこれらのことは原子力発電所に最も近いほとんど失っている。厳しさをドロップすると、あなたはできるだけ多くの愛情と支援エネルギーとしてお送りください。


        Report comment

      • from tokyo

        yes.. it’s heartbreaking..
        there are even twitter users who still live in that area claiming about headache & other symptoms already.
        nevertheless they say “but I will stay!” ._.

        I hope families with little children make the
        right decisions.
        dunno what is right and what is wrong – if a single adult wants to stay well okay it’s his own decision (though such high radiation sure is not good for adults, too..) but children.. they cannot decide on their own. and they are the future, they still have a
        long life to live!!


        Report comment

  • I’m sorry, but good fences do make good neighbors–and right now–Japan,…please fix the bloody fence! Your trashy yard has come over into my crib,……and even God says that I don’t have to put up with that!
    I wouldn’t want to tee Him off any more than He already is,…….!

    How can ‘WE’, the Worldwide Community, give TEPCO/JAPAN say, 30 days to have a ‘kill Operation’ in FULL swing,…or else some pre-set penalty????


    Report comment

    • from tokyo

      although I’m in Japan now I second it!!
      This status of instability and a-little-by-little-contamination could be worse than an explosion..
      US army should come and make an end of this disaster. (well if they can..)


      Report comment

    • charlie

      I wonder if anyone, the USA, Franec, China, Russia, if ANYONE could do a better job at “fixing” the fukushima mess.
      I tend to doubt it now, because if they could, surely they would have stepped in already?


      Report comment

    • Fred

      The army would only make a mess of it anyway. Doomed to die a slow death I think… Yes the just of us are ready for this to be over Japan get a move-on……


      Report comment

  • And,…..are not we all merely thinking about dying of cancer, and/or radiation?
    What about LIVING with cancer, and/or radiation aftereffects? Our kids,….living SICK,…year after pitiful year,……dreading getting pregnant.

    If my kids and their kids would open up thier eyes,…and move from Cali,…there might still be a chance for my bloodline,….but NO,…..nothing to see here. Move along.


    Report comment

  • psky

    Hospital renovation boom is happening every where in N. CA. Get ready for big increase in demand?


    Report comment

  • if they had read and understood our advice, which can exhaust and separate the ascending radioactive particles, contamination of japan could be lowered significally.
    But TEPCO, IAEA and the japanese authorities refused. We don´t know how these people want to explain this omission to the world.
    http://www.ecovac.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=2


    Report comment

  • concerned

    How will all of this pan out for the rest of Asia? If we are seeing fall out in North America what about the rest of Asia? China, Thailand, Philipines???? Would they not be in worse shape than us?? I quess depending on which way the wind blows????? A good day for fall out or a bad day. Who gets it today?


    Report comment

  • Dr. Strangleglove

    The scale needs to be in minus numbers-going from bad to worst…


    Report comment

  • concerned

    How will or is this panning out for the rest of Asia?, no one is taling about that.Fall out has reached North America, Washington- vancouver. Whats happening in parts of Asia. No one is saying anything about that??? Are they in any danger. I have friends there and would like some ones opinion…??? As I am not an expert on any of this.


    Report comment

  • David

    This one goes to 11….


    Report comment