Expert: Source informed me that areas by U.S. nuclear plants are becoming ‘seismically active’; Studies underway right now — NRC ‘Official Use Only’: Quakes can actually happen almost anywhere (AUDIO)

Published: January 3rd, 2014 at 6:10 pm ET


Nuclear Regulatory Commission Questions & Answers:

Chris Harris, former licensed Senior Reactor Operator and engineer, Jan. 2, 2014 (at 42:00 in): There’s actually studies going on right now —  I am finding out from the source of a previous study that where  areas that we thought were deemed seismically quiet are now actually seismically active. […] We’re always doing work on what effects a seismic event would have on a nuclear power plant — but it’s not just nuclear power plants. You have to consider the whole infrastructure, like dams that aren’t nuclear power plants, but still could affect nuclear power plants.

Full interview with Harris here (at 42:00 in)

Published: January 3rd, 2014 at 6:10 pm ET


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74 comments to Expert: Source informed me that areas by U.S. nuclear plants are becoming ‘seismically active’; Studies underway right now — NRC ‘Official Use Only’: Quakes can actually happen almost anywhere (AUDIO)

  • Socrates

    The continental drift theory means that seismic activity occurs. Anyone familiar with the geological timetable of North America knows that changes are always taking place. Predicting where the next quake will occur is risk-taking. Solar energy plants will not melt down. Wind farms will not melt down. No storage problem with waste.

  • davidh7426 davidh7426

    Name somewhere on this planet that ISN'T becoming seismically active. And the Arctic doesn't count.

    All NPP's are under threat, the ground beneath our feet isn't as solid as we thought it was.

    Any day now, I expect to hear about a sinkhole that's threatening an NPP.

  • arclight2 arclight2

    hello enenewsers
    yes its me .. the lemming.. and to prove it i will place this pro nuke link here.. it seemed relevant.. 🙂
    General Electric moves from nuclear into the fracking buisness

    GE has wisely chosen a high margin part of the oil and gas business that plays well with their exceptional skills in specialized materials and remote sensing. Not only does deep drilling require sophisticated materials, but it also requires mobile generators and an increasingly large array of treatment systems. Since hydraulically fractured wells exhibit depletion rates in the 5-10% per month range, maintaining a steady supply of gas from shale rock formations that require fracking means a continuing need to drill an ever larger number of wells.

    3 January 2014

    Rod Adams

    and the usa might have problems with coastal reactors like the uk

    Most UK nuclear sites at risk of flooding

    …”Sea level rise, especially in the south-east of England, will mean some of these sites will be under water within 100 years,” said David Crichton, a flood specialist and honorary professor at the hazard research centre at University College London. “This will make decommissioning expensive and difficult, not to mention the recovery and movement of nuclear waste to higher ground.”….


    • arclight2 arclight2

      blimey.. now you know its me..

      A happy new year to all enenewsers and their great comments and critical thinking skills

      and thanks to admin for what feels like an eternity of typing the word "fukushima".. we have reached critical google word mass.. ?? 🙂

      luv to all here

      • davidh7426 davidh7426

        If you have no objection I'll be tweeting those pages. It'd be easier if they had a Tweet button on them though.

      • Socrates

        Reactors are becoming a big liability. A single Fukushima – type event could bankrupt a country. Rising water would entail huge decommissioning costs. A massive earthquake, a terrorist attack, flooding of rivers, a dam failure, changes in liability laws, coronal mass ejection, Carrington events, pressure tube failure, tornadoes, plane crash, volcanoes, wars, nuns who seek in, a rat biting the wires, shortage of uranium, new technologies, loss of subsidies….

        Who needs these headaches?

        • Sam

          Not me.

          Humanity is sinking into a 'psychic quicksand'. The greatest danger to man is intellectual stagnation leading to a paralysis of thought. Politicians are already victims of this disease.

          I think we humans are pushing ourselves unknowingly heading into a 'chess game' where the only foreseeable outcome is checkmate!

  • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

    Arto Lauri may be right eh? He sure made a whole lot of sense, and certainly we could document the bad reprocessed fuel, from England, so the theory of methane and why Germany shut down nukes is starting to not seem so crazy after all… Thanks to Arto for the information and dots to connect.

    • I had the same thought

      • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

        Hi Majia 🙂 Happy New Year! Surely interesting isn't it..? I remember getting goosebumps of doom when I first saw this, over two years ago, so wild, but dang it made sense…and here we are years later and can not disprove what he has said.

        Maybe some of the political reasoning is not quite right, but the rest of what he said occurs spot on, and definitely worth thinking about.

        SHUT them DOWN, while we still can.

        Peace to you throughout what will be a very difficult year, as the masses finally wake up. It is going to be tough, but perhaps a year after this one, we might finally get an uprising of concerned humans, of significant numbers, who want to end this DNA mutating ponzi scheme called nuke for power. NO NUKES are the only good nukes!

        Take care 🙂

        • Thanks Cataclysmic and best wishes to you (and everyone else as well) for the new year

          • Socrates


            What Arto Lauri said seemed to be weird but things are getting stranger. Putin accused the West of manipulating the weather when fires threatened Moscow. I know you do not like him but there is good evidence of weather modification going on. There is a HAARP program. They are spraying something in the skies. Super-weapons are real.

            This New Year is like a bad science fiction movie. I wake up to a nightmarish reality of increasing radiation levels and government plots. Yet, this is reality.

    • @12:20

      "I've seen in Olkiluoto a flock of birds flying over the omission chimney dropping down smoking and dead."
      – Arto Lauri, former employee at the Finnish nuclear facility

      I have also observed and documented similar sadness via the Fukushima web cam.

      Nuclear Power Plants are 'equal opportunity' DNA destroying Death Machines.

  • name999 name999

    This is why nuclear energy production is never safe..always a time bomb ticking away. It makes no
    sense what people will do. Even when we are all confronted by very extreme weather events and
    lots of information about seismic activity in places like West Coast and Japan.

    I worked as a canvasser for Greenpeace in San Diego CA in the early 80's. Walked the upscale environs of nuclear scientists in the wealthy areas, La Jolla, etc. These folks were obviously gung ho about making nukes but they loved the whales and the dolphins and usually got a membership.

    Because we had so much support from the pro nuke people, our office would not take a public stand against nuclear energy. Many of us argued this nonsense. I was discouraged and quit. It is an industry that employs many people and commands loyalty with some very nice people working for it.

    • Very interesting and revealing

      I quit the Sierra Club over their unwillingness to take a stand on Fukushima

      Yet they fought against uranium mining in the Grand Canyon

      • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

        I also quite the Sierra Club, found it odd they would then fight against uranium mining??? what the heck right? Geez, but I won't go back.. Fukushima was/is too important to not take a stand on, and if you are not with us, you are against us. So, from my perspective, back then, the Sierra Club decided life of all forms was not worth taking a stand on..

        I learned in the 80s that our brightest minds, out of our Universities, were recruited into the nuke cult. One of my good friends shared his roommate was top of his class, very anti-nuke, but before he graduated, he was approached, his education paid for, fancy new car, fancy new house, and a salary he could not say no to, and blam… he is in the nuke cult now. I imagine what him, and many many others like him, might have contributed had they not been stolen from us. I truly believe our evolution as a species has been stifled by these big power companies, and the enormous wealth at their disposal. The nukestooges have infiltrated our government, our schools, and all other aspects of our lives, and we let them.. now, what are we gonna do about it?

        • name999 name999

          …do we only hold out because of no offers of big money and fancy cars? I think I never
          gave any indication that I would even consider such things…called ethics. I'm pretty stubborn.

          But I understand why people do and I know and love people that do. Christmastime
          reminds us of these connections.

          Values. Decisions of daily life. $. Responsibilities = take the job and shut up…

          And how is that working for you?

        • Yep. Our entire social fabric infiltrated by a very wealthy elite. Now what are We going to do about it? Indeed.

          Under the current circumstances, the least We can do is get the rad word out to the People.

          To All:

          The following Japan Radiation Citizen Memos are designed to be widely shared everywhere in your local and internet communities. All citizens need to know about Fukushima. Find bulletin boards in your local area and post on social websites. Tell the People.

          Japan Radiation Memo to All Citizens PDF

          Japan Radiation Memo in JPEG (for social media upload)

          Vital1's Radiation Memo to Parents

          Doesn't take much. A printer. Scissors. Thumbtacks. For some,
          only a computer. And the simple motivation to share your care.

          With great thanks to All. The Citizens of the World must know. That's what We do, We tell the People.

  • Ontological Ontological

    Well now is all that new hydraulic fracturing going to oooopps a few NPPs. Awwww so sorry Unka Sam…NOT! When the hell are these trained monkeys going to learn? Oh the truth is they can't learn, way too much industrial waste was added to their infant formula.

  • name999 name999

    wa6smn, is that supposed to be a wind turbine exploding like a nuke plant? Hardly…

    • wa6smn wa6smn

      Bird choppers sometimes catch fire. The infrasonic emissions are health damaging. Wind is not a reliable source. Expensive boondoggle.

      • arclight2 arclight2

        hi wa6
        when a turbine blows the insurance covers the cost with little impact ..
        when a nuclear plant blows the insurance pays nothing and everybody loses..
        the big question is the decentralisation of energy using wind , solar and things like an aluminium fuel cell..

      • arclight2 arclight2

        Harness More Wind Power? Go Fly a Kite!
        Today, companies involved in High Altitude Wind Power (HAWP) believe they can harness the power of the world’s “jet streams”, an endless loop of air circling the earth, to generate 1,700 terawatts (TW) of power with negligible impact on the world’s climate.


        • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

          Hi all! Happy New Year! Love it! some don't realize that the nukestooges have spent billions over the last thirty+ years convincing the masses of lies like, wind and solar won't work. Very smart people have been conned by these lies. This is what de-regulating media and ownership of media has accomplished. This is what allowing private companies, and industry to own our elected, allows. Encouraging energy companies to pay/contribute to our Universities is an excellent tool for manipulation. Brilliant strategy, you must admit. It was clever, well thought out and perfectly executed. The intelligence this industry has wasted is enormous and has stifled the evolution of our species. When I read stuff like you shared arclight, I get reassured that they didn't get us all and that maybe we will move forward. If we survive. People fail to think for themselves. One should consider the combustion engine has come a long way. Remember carburetors? Only when we use things do we improve what we started with, imagine we started this 30 years ago, when our government knew we could easily and cheaply accomplish this. The point is we do not spend any public $ to try a better way, a more harmonious way. Things have sure changed since I was a kid, when we had duck and cover nuke drills, and we knew about our ecosystem and how important it was for us to live with it, to take care of it. What happened in the last 40 years to alter this? Easy, public relations, aka con job.

  • Jebus Jebus

    America's Nuclear Industry – How Earthquake Proof Is It?

    "If you look back at the NRC map, there are a large number of nuclear reactors throughout this area. As well, the junction of the states of Arkansas, Tennessee and Missouri appears to have potential for seismic activity; these states are also the home to several nuclear reactors. I certainly realize that prior to the construction of nuclear power plants that engineers extensively study the risk of ground movement, however, all risks can’t be quantified and the risk of significant seismic activity is never zero in historically seismically active areas."

    Tsunamis – Could they impact the Atlantic Coast?

    "Newfoundland, Canada, located in the Northwest Atlantic, could experience tsunami wave heights of 10 metres (33 feet) and the north shore of South America could experience waves of between 15 and 20 metres (49 and 66 feet) in height. Waves reaching the Cape Canaveral area of Florida could reach between 20 and 25 metres (66 and 82 feet) in height. Here's the tsunami model:"

    How many plants, including MIL/IND and research, are on the east coast usa?

    Fifty two or so?

    What are the odds that one nuclear complex, out of 52, won't survive one of these scenario's?

  • Jebus Jebus

    "What are the odds that a nuclear emergency like the one at Fukushima Dai-ichi could happen in the central or eastern United States?"

    "The reactor with the highest risk rating is 24 miles north of New York City, in the village of Buchanan, N.Y., at the Indian Point Energy Center. There, on the east bank of the Hudson, Indian Point nuclear reactor No. 3 has the highest risk of earthquake damage in the country, according to new NRC risk estimates provided to"

  • Ontological Ontological

    Solar even has its issues like battery explosions etc. BUT they do not melt down, require toxins be made to manufacture fuel rods at an alarming rate of oil wastage. So, big oil down plays solar, they have debunked it all along. It does not sell oil like the nuke industry does. The problem is it works, works well, and does not make some evil corporation rich. Money is the bottom line period. Example: what we need to do, and is THE only sane answer to the fuel rod storage issue. Put them in space! Burn them in the photosphere of the Sun! Safe, compared to the nightmare we have now, cheap compared to the current death toll, the ONLY solution. Too expensive is the lamest answer I received, and that was most of us out here except a few open minded individuals. Or: We can't risk that much money over this trivial little accident way over there in Japan.
    Flabbergasted, I again call for SPACEX to design a way to dispose of this emergency. THEN make commercial space flights for passengers. There is no future without this drastic measure to be taken NOW!

  • Homolumina Homolumina

    Does anybody know of the growing earth/growing celestial bodies and the resonance project, Nassim Haramein ? I am referring to rapid expansion when moving through the galactic equator which causes all kinds of shifts in Earth patterns like weather, eruptions, gravity etc. I am no scientist like many in this forum, which I love, but this makes the most sense to me – please see here:

    • name999 name999

      …I wasn't sure what the actual science was with this…almost seemed like propoganda because it started to assert that there was no longer any movement of the tectonic plates, but every part of
      the earth was moving…

    • Ontological Ontological

      WOW! & Yes! The "expanding mantle" theory. Techtronic plate theory as in uniformitarian geology, is wrong. What is happening is the methane layer can expand and contract in a very long periodic cycle. Currently the Earth's crust is expanding. Islands are forming where the stretch has exposed new areas of the crust to old magma pressure zone. Thanks for the video, and feel free to ask good questions. The only "Quest ion", quest ions are the best ions. : )
      Ok answer: Galactic "wind" is one factor, this reflects also on molecular vibration theory, where atom subcomponents move back and forth. Ok now if stars systems act like "macro atoms", then the quantum electro-dynamics theory of molecular vibration may apply to some of them (the star systems) as well. Example: Sirius is a blue giant star 7.8 or so light years away. Many times in our history reference has been made to Sirius as red indicating a sudden change in direction (red shift). Ancient Egyptian lore tells about a time when Earth's surface was seared to a crisp by the "Dog Star" Sirius. If the molecular vibration theory does indeed apply to star system "molecules" the solar system would be electrostatically pulled back rhythmically every x amount of time. Distancing Sirius from the Sun at just under 2 light years away! A pendulum swing of aprox. 6 light years.
      Example in time of an H2O molecule in vibration. Note 01 & 03 examples apply. ~>

  • Jebus Jebus

    Oh ya, there is this:

    From: Quails, Phil
    Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 2:31 PM
    To: McCann, Edward
    Subject: RE: japan
    Probably beyond DBE. How do you design for a 8.9? However, even if DBE was 9, there is a likelihood some
    multitude of things failed. Offsite power is gone for the forseeable future as the grid is down. I think the weak
    link is the "median fragility of ceramic insulators in the electrical grid" NUREG CR 4910 (I have a copy from the
    old days from somewhere).
    With an 8.9, if a pipe support or snubber fails, pipe whip would probably cause a LOCA. EDGs must function.
    With 8.9 they may not for a whole lot of reasons. I have a hard time believing we are transporting water in to a
    facility on the coast. I hope the news article is wrong. I saw the story on MSNBC website and I know how
    accurate their US political reporting of our beloved President is.


    • Jebus Jebus

      From: Kammerer, Annie aZ1•
      Sent: Tuesday, March 15,2011 11:04 AM
      To: Ake, Jon; Munson, Clifford
      Cc: Meighan, Sean; Nguyen, Quynh
      Subject: RE: Earthquake
      Jon/Cliff: another request, but something we can do later today. Quynh and Sean preparing a response to the
      questions, "what if an 8.9 happened at one of our plants." This is an obvious question from the public who
      doesn't understand tectonics and one that we are going to be asked over and over.
      I'm suggesting the approach to developing the response:
      1) Explain that an 8.9 can't happen at the plants
      2) Explain that plants are designed to ground motions and not magnitudes
      3) Figure out the distance from the plane to the plants in Japan. Try to determine rough estimates of the
      ground motions at the plants (note, we have some numbers on the shakemap, but they are too low
      based on the recording of 0.58g at onagawa) (Jon do you have a subduction model at your fingertips?)
      4) use that estimate to compare to the ground motions and to say "this ground motion is only expected
      every XX years on average at this plant. However an 8.9 can't occur because it requires a subduction
      This needs to be written up so that the public can understand.
      Again, this is not the top of the list, but something to do today when we get a breather.
      Sean/Quynh: we'll do our best.

      • Jebus Jebus

        Vera, Marieliz
        Jain, Bhagwat
        Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:31 PM
        Hawkins, Kimberly; Chuang, Tze-Jer; Ma, John; Park, Sunwoo; Patel, Pravin; Tegeler, Bret;
        Thomas, Brian; Thomas, Vaughn; Valentin, Milton; Vera, Marieliz; Jeng, David; Kazi, Abdul;
        Xu, Jim; Shams, Mohamed; Chakravorty, Manas
        Bergman, Thomas
        Japan Earthquake and Fakushima plants seismic design basis
        All: FYI
        The earthquake that hit Japan last Friday resulted in the ground shift of 8 ft ; i.e., roughly the site PGA of
        2.67g. The site experienced a peak ground acceleration that was more than 2.5 times the upgraded PGA
        capacity of the Fukushima units.
        In March 2008 TEPCO upgraded its estimates of likely peak ground acceleration (PGA) for Fukushima to 0
        .61g, and other operators have adopted the same figure. In October 2008 TEPCO accepted 1.02g PGA as the
        new seismic design basis for Kashiwazaki Kariwa, following the July 2007 earthquake there. Reportedly, the
        Fukushima units were upgraded to 1.02 PGA in 2009.
        By comparison, the certified designs of new reactors in the US are based on PGA of 0.3g.

  • Jebus Jebus

    This goes with the above NRC Emails. Look for it and you see the conflict…

    San Onofre is built to withstand up to a 7.0 on the Richter scale, Dietrich said. Though the Japanese quake was an 8.9 to 9.0, Dietrich said the velocity with which the ground was moving at the quake’s strongest point was .35 Gs.

    "The San Onofre plant, however, can withstand ground movement forces of up to .67 Gs, nearly twice the force of the Japanese quake. This, he said, is a more accurate measure for engineers to go by."

    Peak ground acceleration can be expressed in g (the acceleration due to Earth's gravity, equivalent to g-force) as either a decimal or percentage; in m/s2 (1 g = 9.81 m/s2);[3] or in Gal, where 1 Gal is equal to 0.01 m/s² (1 g = 981 Gal).

  • name999 name999

    San Onofre is closed…I went for a swim there decades ago, before I knew better…bad design and
    very dangerous…

    • bo bo

      name999… in massachussets there is 'Tubing down the Deerfield River' … people wade and marinate themselves down stream for hours on floaties from the oldest nuclear power plant in U.S., Yankee Rowe. It is shut down, but river is still radioactive. So glad I found out before I decided to try.

  • name999 name999

    because rivers are beautiful. The ocean is beautiful. Fresh fish frying on an open fire. We just want to jump in the way
    God/Goddess intended. Under the clear starry sky.

    That is the way it should be and sad that we can't jump in anymore…very sad indeed. Ughhh…

  • hexagon

    "You have to consider the whole infrastructure, like dams that aren’t nuclear power plants, but still could affect nuclear power plants."

    Is this a prediction?

    • Don't need to be a psychic to 'predict' that dam failures can affect nukes. First, many dams house hydroelectric facilities feeding the grid, and nukes depend upon grid power to operate. Second, many nukes rely upon dams (even earthen) to hold back their cooling water resource. Failure drains the lake, no coolant.

      Not to mention the fact that failed dams send a whole lot of water downhill really fast to take out all things human along the way.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Interactive Map: The Real Seismic Threat to Our Nation's Nuclear Power Plants – March 24, 2011

    The map shows all 104 active nuclear power plants within the Lower 48 states, the sites of all earthquakes within the past four months, and the sites of the 15 largest earthquakes in the region. Here's a screenshot, but if you go to the original you can click around and learn more about the acute risks to each plant.

    • Sparky Sparky

      Hi Jebus, I drilled-down to the Climate Central map and blog. I found the author's concluding comments very disappointing and incongruent with information provided in his article and map.

      "The bottom line is that a major earthquake would probably not result in a nuclear meltdown at the reactors on the above map, but it could present significant engineering challenges. Quantifying the risks, and minimizing them as much as possible, is a key task for everyone involved in the nuclear energy industry."
      By David Kroodsma, Climate Central, dated Mar. 15, 2011

      I wonder if Mr. Kroodsma has come to a different conclusion nearly three years after the world's most horrific nuclear disaster.

      • Jebus Jebus

        If he has any common sense at all, he realizes that every moment that tics by, increases the odds that a quake of significant size, will strike at a location that is detrimental to the safety of an operating nuclear power plant…

        We are working with odds and probabilities here, right?

        • Sparky Sparky

          @Jebus, IMO, Right! Add to that reactors everywhere are aging, spent fuel is accumulating on-site with no safe place to put it (ever), storage containers are aging/deteriorating, and the frequency and severity of extreme weather events has increased significantly even over the past few years. Oh yes, and as noted by several Enewsers, there's fracking, so we don't even need to wait for a naturally occurring seismic event as we can create it as an "unintended" but deadly consequence.

          Unfortunately, I do believe that the odds are against us, with probabilities high that we're in line for a nuclear disaster(s) as bad or worse as that at the Fuku NPP–the extent of which is still unclear, but is clearly deteriorating.

  • name999 name999

    Ontalogical, before I go to the Jebus site, your site wouldn't let me on…private site or something…
    can you post it again?

  • name999 name999

    Jebus…this site says that it can track weather to 1700, don't believe that…what?

  • name999 name999

    but how can records for the 1700's be available…just not possible…and the references may be valid
    but just not able to believe that this site has records from the 1700's…

  • ftlt

    Yes, quakes can happen anywhere… And even more so, when you are Fracking near by… Stupid is as stupid does

    • weeman

      Did you know that they are actually fracking on the San Andre fault, right in the heart of Los Angles,
      Not right in the head.

      • ftlt

        Wee: It is a time of madness… The globalists are insane and most of us are drinking their special KOOL-AID – what else, can you say..

        We're screwed!

  • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

    5.4 quake off of Fukushima last night… The Southern end of San Andreas has been showing activity; hopefully SONG doesn't get a quake…there is a huge spent fuel there that will be a quick death in San Diego & Orange County in the event of meltdown.

  • weeman

    Faults are everywhere, take a look at the Canadian shield one of the most stable rock formations in world, especially around Sudbury, the top soil was removed by ice sheets and you can see all kinds of faults running for miles and interconnected. It is the same all over the world but they are covered by top soil etc and not so apparent.
    The Mississippi river follows the course of a fault, alot of rivers follow fault lines.

  • If Carrington Events weren't enough, think about what would happen if an Asteroid exploded in air, or hit the earth. In 2013 a planet killing Asteroid made a pass and the Egg Heads didn't even notice until a month later "hey what is that planet killing rock which is flying away from us now?" Jeez, we deserve better.

    I made cool spreadsheet that turns Asteroid Diameter into equivalent atomic bombs going off. The one that missed us in 2013 would have been 4440 Atomic bombs. What would that do towards having 440 nuclear power plants melting down. If the asteroid wasn't an ELE the nuke plants would sure finish the job.

    Free download, check it out.

  • W8R W8R

    Hello again.
    As one who was once one of them, until I finally seen the light, I understand the publics misconceptions. Many "nukers" are indeed nice people. They were educated to believe what they believe. I'm certain that if they understood the truth, they would have a change of heart, as I did. Of course there are many industry tools, who quote verbatim whatever they are told, even knowing they are lying.
    As for the likelihood of seismic activity bringing down a nuclear plant it's not a matter of if, but when.
    Drilling fracking and mining have done irreparable damage to you our planets crust. And every piece of nuclear waste is still exactly where it was, and always will be. I grew up in the pristine wilderness of Washington State. Little did we know the Columbia River was a toxic waste land. I have a friend who grew up in Simi Valley California, whose entire family has died of cancer and he himself suffers from cancer, never knowing until he read it on my page but there was a meltdown right up the hill from his house. They don't tell us they won't tell us and they don't care.
    Happy new year enenewsers.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Finally the truth! 🙂 "They don't tell us they won't tell us and they don't care."

    You stop shopping and/or paying your by force taxes then that is the only time they will care! 🙂

    What a "Mad" bizarre world we all live in today.. 🙁