Nuclear Experts: One century before Japan tries to deal with Fukushima’s melted cores? — “More likely what’s left of reactors will be left in situ for 100 years or more” (VIDEO)

Published: August 15th, 2013 at 7:27 am ET


Beyond the Cloud’ Yanaoshi 3.11, June 3, 2013 – French nuclear engineer Gérard Aleton (at 3:30 in): When a nuclear power plant is built […] workers can access all building parts, including the tank — But dismantling is another story. […] There’s no longer a conventional access to those parts of the building. No human can enter those tanks and radioactive areas. We then must use teleoperation, or robotic equipment. I’m not even talking about damaged power plants. Those are so problematic, and heavy to handle that I do not think we know how to treat them today. To address this issue would take 50 years, or maybe one century. And the living proof today is Chernobyl. It is still buried under concrete which now starts leaking. There is the need to pour more concrete to seal it, and we still cannot access the melted core.

French nuclear engineer Gérard Aleton (SOURCE: ‘Beyond the Cloud’ Yanaoshi 3.11)

RTE News, March 14, 2013 – Nuclear expert John Large (at 24:30 in): As for the reactors themselves, they will have to be closed down and sealed up. More likely, what’s left of the reactors will be left in situ for 100 years or more, until there’s enough radioactive decay to allow individuals to get in there to clean up the mess. […] For example in the UK the closed down reactors that haven’t gone through accidents are left in situ for 100 years after they’re closed down, before they are fully decommissioned.

Full RTE broadcast here

See also: [intlink id=”will-point-throwing-concrete-top-fukushima-reactors-coming-300-500-years-gundersen-video” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Published: August 15th, 2013 at 7:27 am ET


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89 comments to Nuclear Experts: One century before Japan tries to deal with Fukushima’s melted cores? — “More likely what’s left of reactors will be left in situ for 100 years or more” (VIDEO)

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    When you "decommission" a nuclear plant, to where do you take the radioactive parts and pieces?
    Why, you haul them "away" to any place you can find that will allow you to dump it.
    I lived for many years about 10 miles of Big Rock NPP in Michigan, which was finally decommissioned last in 2005.
    (Don't miss the photo of pulling the nasty corroded "stainless steel" reactor on Pg. 3.)
    They hauled the reactor out, strapped it to a flatbed truck, and hauled it "away".
    It may have ended up in the nuclear dump in St. Louis, currently threatened by an underground fire.
    In the case of Fukushima, the original TEPCO Decommission Plan called for the "removal" of the melted fuel and the reactors. To where?
    Probably, a crane would lift it onto a barge, which would dump it into the offshore trench in the Pacific Ocean.
    This is why I favor treating the ruined reactirs with lead powder, boron, and sand, filling them with grout, and leaving them right where they are. There is no "away" on Planet Earth. Spreading radiation around is never a good idea. Nor is adding to the radiation woes of the…

    • harengus_acidophilus

      Why lead?

      "I favor treating the ruined reactirs with lead powder …"

      The soviets had have done this in chernobyl, but about the heat it was gone into vapor. Result: lead poisoning of the near environment.

      But maybye I just don't see your good reasons with this idea.


    • We Not They Finally

      A "trench" in the Pacific Ocean??? Though anything dumped on them to neutralize radiation — why not? But the 1000 or so tons of water rushing through the coriums everyday — what could "capture" that?

      You obviously think very hard about this stuff. Me, I cannot even grasp the feasibility of getting NEAR it without suicide missions, or how what you say could be done.

    • mairs mairs

      The Big Rock decommissioning article is interesting, Philip. Thanks!

  • Wooster

    You only have to look at the history of Europe and Asia over the last century to see just how unrealisic the proposition of leaving nuclear accidents unresolved is.

    How, for example, could you ever stop a nation using its nuclear power stations as a weapon of last resort? Saddam and Gaddafi tried to do that with their oilfields and Stalin tried to do it with large parts of Russia with his scorched earth policy.

    What foe wouldn't consider bombing a destroyed site like Fukushima in a conflict?

    Do we really think that we can get through a whole century without any further wars or major social upheaval in countries with nuclear power stations?

    We simply can't wait 100 years before Chernobyl or Fukushima are cleaned up.

    • We Not They Finally

      Don't worry. It WON'T be cleaned up in a hundred years. He's just spinning his wheels. "We simply can't wait" is just a slogan. If it makes you feel better.

      DENIAL is a rough one….

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    The great Tohoku earthquake on 3/11 is in the area where previous nuclear waste was dumped off the shore of Japan. Dumping nuclear waste in the ocean undoubtedly contributed to this earthquake and other earthquakes, thus an ever unending spiral of catastrophe and death.

  • 21stCentury 21stCentury

    Searching for pathways to alpha-capture, neutron capture, and transmutation..

    Amazing things can be done with electrochemistry and catalysts. If some geeks got together and built a website that enabled global crowdsourcing of ideas promoting research into transmutation maybe we can come up with that "magic nano-pixiedust" we need to resolve the nuke-devil radioactivity problem.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      We know how transmutation has worked at Hanford, Sellafield, Rokkasho, and Mayak, etc.

      Hugely Expensive Technology Would Increase Environmental, Health, Safety
      And Nuclear Proliferation Risks, New Report Says
      "’Asking the public for huge sums of money for new reactor research and development under the guise of radioactive waste management appears to be largely a scheme to perpetrate the nuclear power industry using public opposition to waste repositories as an excuse,’ said Dr. Arjun Makhijani, President of IEER. ‘Our research shows that the road will not only be costly and dangerous, but that it will also be a dead end. There is no magic bullet for solving the problem of long-lived nuclear waste.’
      “According to The Nuclear Alchemy Gamble, even transmutation proponents agree that many long-lived components of radioactive waste, such as cesium-135 and carbon-14, cannot be transformed into less dangerous forms because of fundamental limitations that cannot be overcome by technology development. Uranium, which makes up 94% of the mass of the spent fuel, cannot be transmuted because it would result in the production of even more plutonium. In some cases, the report notes, transmutation would create new and even more toxic transuranic radioactive materials, making the residual wastes far more dangerous per pound….”

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Geeks are destroying and have destroyed the world with nuclear technology. The makers of the Trinity bomb were afraid the whole world would blow up. That is exactly what is happening now.

      We don't need snake oil salesmen using our tax dollars to kill off all our children and to destroy the human genome forever. All geeks should be required to take years of biology.

      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        Anne, you go! You are just something else.
        I'd like to have a copy of your hard drive, or maybe take lessons on your method of organizing information.
        You seem to have just the right links at hand to meet any need, and to expand any discussion. 🙂

      • 21stCentury 21stCentury

        Anne, your anger is a point well taken here..

        Too bad this enenews website doesn't seem to have a user comments search function, so you could see my string of thoughts in previous posts. [or at least I haven't found it yet, too busy multitasking with homechores,etc]

        I know transmutation research gets ridiculed often, for the same reasons you have outlined here.

        I have amazingly good health considering my very large amount of rad-exposure during my lifetime. [yeah I have worked in the nuke industry, and near the nuke industry] I have been anti-nuke since before JFK was shot, but have had the bad luck of serious exposure because there is a lot more rad-waste in general surplus industrial equipment that is still in circulation than people realize. I worked many years as a civil/navy shipyard sandblaster/painter, the surplus Navy vessels were never thoroughly checked for contamination until I brought my own geiger counter to work. [this got me fired from one boat job]
        Ships often get checked for rad-contamination by a guy standing on the dock who aims a geigercounter at the whole boat from 100' away… but it's the sandblaster who get's dosed in the bilge later (me)

        A couple decades ago doctors told me I had 6 months to live because they thought I had brain cancer. I quickly began a self-therapy of transmutation/chelation diet & hygiene with…

        • 21stCentury 21stCentury

          We might find that certain aspects of how transmutation relates to the nuke industry can parallel the paradigm shift in the 1890's when mankind thought horse manure was a huge crisis that could not be solved..
          goog: horse manure crisis

          The prevailing consensus among experts worldwide could not have envisioned what eventually fixed the horse manure problem.. yeah, the solution was not perfect, humans screwed up a good thing there too.

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          I love her anger! She is certainly Mad!

          When will the rest of the world wake up, show anger and get Mad?

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          21stCentury suggests: "Too bad this enenews website doesn't seem to have a user comments search function, so you could see my string of thoughts in previous posts."

          Admin, an outstanding suggestion, if you could do it. Your basic text search engine.

          I have struggled looking up comments, too. I always turn to Google. Today, I was trying to find Markww's "8 compound nuclear fire surpressor mix", if I remember right. Couldn't find it. Had to ask Mark for a repost on this. I suppose anne has it at hand. 😉

          • m a x l i

            I agree. I miss such a search function all the time. It would be very helpful in efficiently finding something you read a few days ago, because what you often remember best is a person who made a certain comment on the topic you are after. It would help you to tell the good from the bad and the ugly when you see suspect comments by unknown, new users. It would help to easily maintain dialog over days, when you put out questions and receive answers days later…

      • nedlifromvermont

        Anne, Hi, did you know Leo Szillard, one of history's greatest physicists, got so fed up with the scientific sell out to big business (GE, Westinghouse) that he left the field of physics and devoted the rest of his life to studying biology?

        p.s. did you see my response to you: I was calling the NRC dude a trained liar, NOT YOU, the guy who told Paul Blanche, "We missed it", when Paul showed him the data that confirmed that TMI's containment was breached by the hydrogen bubble (and that was a brand new, relatively sturdy PWR containment, concrete and rebar, not the rube Goldberg contraption GE pushed through for its line of BWR's, which they sold off at a premium price to the SUCKER Japanese dudes at Hitachi.)

        Rock on, girl. We've got work to do. Oh yeah, check out a movie called "Thrive" … heard about it yesterday from a friend in NYC … about the possibilities with Tesla's free energy machine (JP Morgan blew up the tower and aparatus, because you couldn't commercialize it!

        peace …

    • harengus_acidophilus

      Nice try …

      "Amazing things can be done with electrochemistry and catalysts."

      But chemistry is, viewed from the energetic side, 3 (three) orders of magnitude below nuclear reactions. Would you like to transport molten steel in your car, using a paper coffee cup?

      You see?


  • flatsville

    Michio Kaku on CBS This Morning discussing wealth to be made in asteroid mining.

    Next up cancer specialist talking about new diagnosis and hope for patients suffering from common forms of cancer based on DNA changes.

    No mention of the fact that the billionaires investing in asteroid mining won't live lond enough to see profits or that shutting down NPPs might be the best cure for cancer.

    Kaku is a media whore. Cancer specialist an idiot.

    • Cerviche

      Didnt they mention to the public that they want to sync asteroids close enough to the earths orbit to be mined? and that unstable masses of such will require countless course correction methods while in orbit to keep them from being pulled into us? and i guess they didnt mention that the ores the hope to mine are more than likely metallic and take longer to burn up in our atmosphere like the one that near missed Russia….. lol the lunacy

    • We Not They Finally

      CBS had a doctor talking about cancers based on DNA changes? You don't think that's planned and scary? THEY ARE GETTING US READY.

      And I'm unclear why Kaku was not asked abo Fukushima instead. He's spoken in the past. But I don't think he's a media whore at all. People just fling around names. What is it about people that makes them feel better about themselves if they are denigrating someone else?

      Note: Last week Fox "News" had a special about how "cancer is overdiagnosed." THEY ARE GETTING US READY.

      • We Not They Finally

        This is VERY pernicious. Now "DNA changes" are "just another carcinogen"? Will they forget to mention about deformed babies? And is the escalating cancer rate just going to become "the new normal"?

        • ML

          Escalating cancer rates have been the norm and will continue to rise. Look in cities for beautiful big cancer centers. If you don't have one near you, you will soon.

    • nedlifromvermont

      Absolutely true. The best cure is prevention … but GE took that option away fro us in the 1950's, 60's, and 70's … and it might have crimped their profits on the medical diagnostics division, so guess we'll have to hope for a miracle, instead.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Again today..the search under 'nuclear'..nothing for at least the first 20 pgs.
    Point being the search engines themselves are complicit.
    No reports what so ever concerning Fukushima.

    Kaku running his mouth again?
    I consider him a detriment to rational thinking.
    One can be theoretical and still be rational.
    The populace is being shoveled pipe dreams.
    I say….boycott his work.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    The world doesn't need theoretical BS right now..the search is for ration practical solutions.
    The fact that there is none to be found..makes it all the more annoying to listen to wistful dreamers.

  • dodge

    The idea is that the short term (30- year half life elements) will go down allowing access for cleanup. What they are not telling us is that the long term radio active elements continue to increase and concentrate. This makes it likely much less approachable in 100 or 1000's of years than it is now/or immediately following accident. In addition this concentration takes place without containment – not only the water flowing into the ocean, but the dispersal through the air – "dilution is the solution" NOT — what is happening is a continual assault on the environment with a permanent dead zone continuing as a threat to future generations. I don't have a better answer to this crisis – but I do have a suggestion PREVENT hundreds of future like situations – begin now to shut down – clean up – safely isolate, seal, and protect the worlds nuclear waste, and develop safe alternative energy along with greed reduction as we plan for future generations to have a chance to survive – perhaps even thrive.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    And what will be the condition of the life forms on the planet in a hundred years?
    What will be the geological condition of Fukushima itself..when in fact it is in on-going..rather fast moving geological degradation.

    The word 'collapse' might be clearer.

    • Cisco Cisco

      "Life forms"…the new human condition, a new normal, may have lots of folks that look like CodeShutdown's avatar.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Or here's the 3,695 page 30 year plan..

    Fukushima Watch: Tepco Finally Gets an Official Cleanup Plan
    Aug.15 2013

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    PS. 3,695 pages of ineffectual thought.
    The coriums are well beyond containment…NOW.

  • 36,500 days of RADIOACTIVE contamination!

    1 century = 100 years

    How long is… 'or more'?
    Does it matter?

    The micro-blurbs on MSM news reports this last week of the leaking/gushing water into the Pacific failed to discuss many of the more difficult topics such as this one, (*how long?), or things like 'What affect might Plutonium have?'. These important items are simply not addressed.

    *What affect will bio-accumulation have on everything in 5, 10, 20, 50 and 100 years? Isn't that what we really need to know?

    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      The word 'subsidence' has barely begun to cross the lips the 'experts'.
      Even in higher academia there is some sort of'stunting' that does not allow them to conceive natural progession and consequence.

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Radioactive iodine, uranium, cesium, and plutonium particles are in the air …in the Northern Hemisphere.

  • NoNukes NoNukes

    Radiation is NOT decreasing, but radiation is INCREASING at Fukushima, the criticalities of uncontained fuel are producing higher levels of radiation. Their funny math ignores the current criticalities that are destroying the genome of humans and other animals and plants.

    "Apparent criticality in Fukushima unit 3 leads to Japan NRA outing Tepco for radioactive leaks.

    Posted on August 14, 2013

    Fukushima Diary (1) has a table from Tepco showing alpha radiation measurements of HEPA filters in unit 3 of Fukushima Daiichi of 190,000 Bq/m3, on May 14-15. These are alpha-emitting particles, not gases, so they are likely to be mostly uranium and plutonium. No explanation was given as to why it took almost 3 months to release this data.

    A previous post (2) showed high levels of radioactive silver (Ag-110m) and cobalt-60 in unit 3 at the same time. Units 1 and 2 did not have the same activities. Radioactive silver comes from melted control rods. Cobalt-60 arises from the interaction of neutron emitters (like plutonium) with building materials (like walls, fuel pool structures, etc.)

    A post on this blog (3) showed high levels of iodine-131 in sewage sludge in two geographically separated Japanese prefectures in June and July."

  • NeverAnyDanger

    It seems like news has suddenly dwindled to a trickle again. And after talking about the leak they're suddenly redirecting our attention to removing the fuel rods in no. 4.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Invisible, odorless, tasteless and if kept out of site, it will be kept out of mind..

    No worries, nothing to see hear, now please move along!



    There is a phone call for someone by the name of..Bobby?

    Is there a Bobby here?

    Hey buddy? What? This whole group is named Bobby. Oh sorry, I should have known. Same teacher huh?

    Then 1/2 of you please go over to that doorway marked incinerator.

    The other 1/2 report to the lead manufacturing casket line doorway.

    Just move along and do what your told!


  • Gasser Gasser

    Sing it like ol’ blue eyes.

    Night and day,……..Fukushima you are the one

    Only you emitting Plutonium becquerels 'neath the moon or under the sun
Whether near to me or far
It's no matter, radiation, wherever you are
I think of you day and night

    Night and day,………why is it so?
That your Plutonium follows me wherever I go
    In the roarin' Geiger counters boom

    In the silence of my radioactive room

    I think of you day and night

    Night and day,………under the hide of me
    There's oh, many Cesium becquerels inside of me
And its torment will not be through

    As you make me spend my life with cancer from you

    Day and night, night and day

    Night and day,……….you are the one
Only you 'neath the Earth hot as the sun
Whether near to me or far
It's no matter where your Buckyballs are

    I think of you day and night

    Night and day,………..why is it so?
That this contempt for you follows wherever I go?
In the roarin' exploding reactors boom

    Screaming in my crowded hospital room
I think of you day and night

    Night and day,…………under the cancer hide of me
There's an oh, such a Uranium burning inside of me
And its torment won't be through

    Till I die spending life making a sarcophagus for you

    Taxed Day and night, work night and day

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Hope you have the music to go hand in hand and have a record planned.

  • mairs mairs

    81 year old Pennsylvania farmer finds mutant ear of corn. Never seen one before in his life.

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Cesium, and a host of other Fukushima isotopes, are in the soil all across the US.
      Think about what this means.

      The entire food supply of the US and Canada has been compromised.

      Cesium in the soil is taken up by corn and other crops (this mutant corn is sweet corn, human food).
      Only some of the corn that contains cesium mutates into outlandish forms you can identify and avoid.

      But there is now plenty of radiation contamination in the soil, in the crops, and in the food supply.

      When cesium gets into muscles, especially the heart muscle, life becomes harsh and short.
      Our future?

  • AntonButler

    Chernobyl clean up time 100 plus years, target date 2115.
    Costs unknown.
    Fukushima clean up time 100 plus years, target date 2113.
    Costs unknown
    Hanford clean up time 100 plus years , target date 2113.
    Costs unknown.

    All 1000(?maybe more including military) NON ACCIDENT decommissioned NPP sites, (if they build no more NPPs) ,
    will have to be left for 100 years.

    The IAEA, US, Japanese,French , British, Russian governments president, prime ministers ARE INSANE.
    They are stealing the future of man for a few dollars more,
    when a dollar is worthless anyway.

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      Its called "Taught Progress" and isn't "Taught Progress" wonderful!

      You can almost taste it and then smell it in the air..

      This "Taught Progress" now permeates everything around each of us..

      We must now create and teach a new Zeitgeist based on truth and not one based on lies….

      • AntonButler

        The poor prophets of the Old Testament, whenever they spoke the truth, somebodies tried to kill them.
        Today the same people wikileaks, Snowden, Manning, are the truth
        seeking prophets(?) and
        also get marginalised.
        Mannings revelations were right,
        Obama and his corrupt administration are so criminal.

        If Jesus came back they, Obama and his co-criminals, etc would try to arrest him with an international arrest warrant, Interpol etc and lock him up for 136 years.
        "Whatever you did to them you did to me".
        Bottom line,
        The US administration is persecuting THE TRUTH,
        how? by committing so much perjury.
        why? because the US administration rejected Gods law.
        until when? the future is a hell.
        Chernobyl and Fukushima are a nightmare for the victims, and
        the tip of the iceberg.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    OT.(sorta).Today ..I am wearing my kukui nut necklace.
    I like primitive jewelry..I like considering primitive thought.
    I like considering that which they valued.
    In this instance a nut brought to Hawaii by the Polynesians..because the oil and vine.. made candles.
    The nut considered the bearer of light.

    The primitive civilzations valued..that which connected them to nature. They valued their proximity to nature.
    That which gives all life was honored and revered.
    Why on Earth would I want to be civilized?

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Agreed, Heart. 🙂
      (Except that I would avoid use of the term "primitive" to describe what are, in fact, "native" traditions.)

      My own, similar, experience was with American Indian, or Native American, traditions.

      In my youth, I enjoyed my time with a native american pipe bearer and teacher.
      Our group of mostly white "seekers" partipated in sweat lodges, kept dream journals, and pursued the " Red Path".

      In the traditional Native American pipe ceremony, we offer the pipe, or a pinch of tobacco, which we put into the pipe. We make our offering, in turn, to the four directions, plus Earth and Sky, in the following manner:
      (You can feel for yourself, if you are so blessed, the truth expressed in these simple words).

      To the Grandfather of the East, where the sun rises.
      To the Grandfather of the South, where the warmth comes from.
      To the Grandfather of the West, where the sun sets.
      To the Grandfather of the North, where the cold comes from.
      To the Mother Earth.
      To the Father Sky.

      I get the shivers just repeating this prayer.
      I feel very blessed to have learned this truth, and so much more, over my lifetime.
      To Native Americans, the entire creation surrounds you, in the personna of the "Grandfathers" who protect the Earth. Nature sends to us lessons and messages. Food is respected, and the plants and animals who serve as human food are respected and thanked for their service and for their sacrifice.

      We need to return to such ways. Ways…

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks


        Those the come first will be last and if the Native American Indian would only wake up!

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          And, even if most are not awake, some are. My Native American tracher repaired roads for the County. But on his own time, and against the objections of his own people, taught a bunch of white kids a lot about the Red Path. A lot about the meaning of our own dreams. A lot about how the Earth and the Creation work. And a lot about ourselves. Louis Johnson, may you rest in peace. Love! Respect!

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        In so many ways, the Indian followed the path of the white man. They made the mistake that the noble, strong and spiritual is born from nature, health and spirit, not being Indian or having traditions, or simply claiming nobility.

        They talk about spirit, but sue each other in white mans courts, eat white man food, getting fat and diabetic, and hang their ego on tribal tradition and their ancestors, who were different then they are now.

        You can be descended from those horrible white invaders yet be more Indian than many Indians. Prayer…fine, do it, just like Christians, but a tree and the birds sitting in it probably have less dross obscuring the light of spirit.

        These are dark ages. Were there really any bright ages? Only for some individuals

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          The forces of darkness seem to be endless, and hover around the forces of light to discourage and dimish.
          But the war is not yet over.
          And though the dark forces seem to overwhelm those in the light,
          Even those lost in darkness love the light, which is irrestible to all.
          Don't count us out, just yet.
          Much of the war has yet to be fought.
          And though we lose a battle, here and there,
          We may yet win the war.

          Love to all.

          • J.

            Somehow we must lose all the war metaphors. It's not easy, but we cannot fight for peace. It's an oxymoronic phrase. We cannot advance through "battles" and we cannot "win" any "war" that will result in a better human condition. I'm not sure just how to phrase the idea. "Struggle" perhaps. "Strive." But others say even these active verbs are misleading, the the true path involves yielding and surrender . . .

            • irhologram

              I gotcha, J. And from that place of surrender/acceptance, we can expand in love, which is a fun thing to do.
              Evil festers in weakness
              Be strong
              Love is I AM YOU
              Anything is possible
              Raise your vibration/(frequency) if you want to be untouched. Find your inner Guide, your mapquest back to the divine and awesome being that is yourself, a loving space where you feel Joy, Peace, and Connection. Read between the lines, connect with "heart " in everything and realise – BECOME. Live the mystery, always " now." Restore the Romance of Living in the Moment! You know what to do, what you were born to do. What these times have taught you about things left to do is: NOW is the time! The future is what you are doing right now!

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                Peace acceptance and surrender. Nice. The reality is that our immune system is constantly killing invaders and worn out pieces of "self". Nature is not how we would idealize it in our pseudo spiritual belief system of hope.

                But it depends on perspective. IF the goal is a viable planet, it would have been better to outright kill pro nuclear factions before they ruined the place. But from a more inclusive view, it doesnt matter what suffering, death and destruction will weigh upon the world. That is an ideal platform because psychopathic killer and peace advocate, vibrant healthy dolphin or maggot infested radioactive dog, war or peace, giving or taking become equal. Thats acceptance, but arguably attainable only with non locality and individuality of consciousness, a tall order.

                Again, from where we stand, the words fight, bushido, war, martial art, last stand, are all good metaphors for ending nuclear and fascist elite rape and pillage of the planet. Your own immune system kills cancerous parts of yourself…what are you going to do, lay down arms?

                • irhologram

                  Acceptance in personal surrender has nothing to do with radioactive, maggot infested dogs. Lol. I was speaking of an inner space from which you can "go forth" with the least "drag" in order to accomplish whatever it is you feel motivated to do. A bitter "well-spring" from within leaves those cells you speak of pretty water deprived. If you're feeling "up" for the adventure at hand, whatever may befall you, you and those around you will have a better chance of experiencing and appreciating the largess possible in humanity (they can only take that if you let them) no matter what the circumstances. This was pretty vividly illustrated in Victor Frankel's "Man's Search for Meaning," detailing the execution of his wife and friends and his struggle to survive in a Nazi prison camp.

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    "Acceptance in personal surrender has nothing to do with radioactive, maggot infested dogs"
                    Oh, but it does. If you talk about universal love, peace and letting go, you cant do it if your mind is divided into duality, me vs them, good vs bad, health vs illness. Of course people THINK that hope is good, that you can decide for good yet embrace the hell etc etc, but not so. Your dog will be radioactive and maggots may crawl from your families dead bodies. Already the tragedy of radiation is upon the Navy boys, the Fukushima children. But you talk about acceptance, and not engaging in a fight. Its in fact ludicrous, how can you accept your wifes nose bleeds and breast cancer because of psychopathic greed, or the young navy man in a wheelchair while Obama, Hillary and ALL the rest do NOTHING for them except raise the limit? The philosophy is HALF BAKED. As I said, with universal, non individualized consciousness, you could do it, but not while hanging from some anthropocentric hope and cobbled together version of a Brigadoon on earth. Anyway, its no place for philosophy. I maintain that if society is to throw off the shackles of fascist oppression and ecocide, its a war, like it or not. Accept THAT, surrender to the fight, bring your inner space to the battlefield, go forth swinging the sword, if need be, just like Arjuna

                    • irhologram

                      So, it's obvious, then, you haven't read Victor Frankel? I'm not saying atrocity is to be accepted! Pulleeeze. Personal acceptance means ACCEPTING ONES' SELF, without drama and enigma. Neither am I saying a person who has surrendered/accepted himself can't go to WAR. As I DID say, you can accomplish whatever you feel motivated to do, but do it without bitterness and you will better connect with "the force," if you will, a guiding impetus that seems to propel people through all obstacles.. Even wars are fought better using strategy and intuition, rather than hate as the motivation. And so…who IS it you would like to go to war with? The 600 leading families? The Bilderberg's? The banksters? The U.S. Government? NATO? All governments? How will you recruit, train, and deploy your army without being surveiled and "droned"?

                    • irhologram

                      Also:RE: spiritual warriors, you've inspired me to retread Carlos Castenda… Perfect instruction into the mastery of self in preparation to meet and face down the worst thing possible.

                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      Ah..Don Juan..The only thing I rememeber of his instructions is to mentally raise your 'place of power' around you..before entering in battle.

                      Seems to work ok…

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Irholo, I did read a bit of Frankel. He said some nice things but I believe he was confused. He pinned his philosophy on the power of choice and responsibility; man makes himself. More accurate is that the universe makes man, or rather, each moment of man and universe exist in time-space perpetuity; the ONE. Victor; "the true meaning of life is to be discovered in the world rather than within man"

                      Irholo supported Js comment that "we cannot fight for peace" with "love is I AM YOU". These are all fine sentiments, but what is the relevance? Criminal enters your house and intends poison or rape, and you URGENTLY FIGHT him off. Perhaps a supreme yogi would say I love you, I AM YOU.

                      I only hope SOMEONE fights off those criminals you mention. It wont be through peace rallies, they wont stop and go willingly to prison for their remaining years.

                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Nice code…

                  • irhologram

                    Code. But I am also ME and have the right to preserve myself. Where that boundary of "self" ends itself a debate…does it include my property? Does it include my banksters' property? Does it include Gaia's property? …all individual questions that a spiritual warrior chooses for himself. By saying I am you, I am looking at my participation in being human. Feeling sorry for the guy who's about to swing at my nose doesn't mean I'm not able to dispatch him with passion, but a cool passion seems more directed, and absent of fear. Fear is the enemy.

                • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

                  Well spoken, CodeShutdown.

                  Nuclear Power Generation is itself violence.
                  The Nuclear Power Industry is an engine of violence.
                  Nuclear Energy would welcome all of us to express our opposition using only the most peaceful of words, purging our retoric of all martial metaphors.
                  While the Nuclear Industry brings actual war, actual destruction of the Pacific Ocean, and actual death to us wall. Sure. You betcha. 😉

                  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                    Oh..oh..Let me try..
                    I am expressing… my most tender and kindest thoughts towards the nuke industry ..while mildly asking them not to pollute the whole world.
                    I have made crumpets and tea…and scrubbed the stove…and am expressing 'happy' thoughts.

                    Guh..In the meantime… I'm FIGHTING like all 'get out'.

                    • jec jec

                      @HOTR Can I come over for homemade crumpets? Thinking pure thoughts, smiling, happy happy…So now no problems from the melted cores and radation? Right? (sarcasm).
                      Cover with concrete is just the top, what about the bottom, sides..anyone smart would have started building walls UP stream of the flow..or to the japan side not ocean side of the groundwater..same for concrete..Of course now they have waited for two plus years..they are really going to have to dig to China to get below the corium blobs..

                      But coming over for virtual crumpets..!! I like blackberry jam, butter, tea please…Will bring the jam..

                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      Virtual crumpets..blackberry jam.. it is…
                      Let's sit in the virtual gazebo.
                      There is some portion of one's life..that has to go on as normal.
                      If a person has a family..a lot of time needs to be designated to normal.
                      Someday's..I prefer the frustration of teaching a child to put their shoes on than deal with supposedly educated adults.
                      Gardens need to be tended..
                      For the's almost harvest.
                      Life could go on peacefully.
                      But to remain there mentally..would border on denial.

                      Of course ..I want something to work.
                      But I'm a practical person.
                      No fix.

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Heart, that was very civil!

                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      Why, thank you..obewanspeaks..
                      Yellow eyes narrow…lolol.

                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      PS..The frustration of teaching a young child to put their shoes also great joy..
                      The dang thing about family life.

              • nedlifromvermont

                very nice … and Phillipupnorth, too … some very healthy sentiments … helpful …. be the change you want to see in the world … stay in the light … firm … but with hope, as long as possible …

            • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

              I can only yield so far.
              After that..a fool is born.
              The clear motion for truth and love..has been hard earned here.
              If not a 'battle'…I'm not sure what is.

              Love is not weak.
              One must move with acceptance and surrender in the heart.
              But one must move…to provide actualization.

              Love is powerful.
              Often involved with the 'Passion for Living' and the 'Sentiment of Care'.

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        I chose the word primitive over native.
        As native in most cultures..there from the early beginnings.
        I chose primitive..untouched by education…and other forms of civilization.
        Primitive minds instinctually understood cohesion and adaptation to the environment.

        This is a concept held for centuries until..modern times.
        Clear folly on the part of humanity.

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          Dear Heart,
          I, by my choice, prefer to spend all of my days in the Word.
          Lost in the primordial vibration of Universal Consciousness.
          At One with God.
          In "atonement"
          GOD: The Generator, the Operator, and the Destroyer of the universe.
          Knowing, I can do no other.
          To my many teachers, in all the many traditions, practiced by the seekers after truth…
          To all the fighters on ENEnews, Respect! Love! Consciousness! Victory! Fight On! Prevail! I love you!
          PhilipUpNorth 😉

          • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

            Love = Universal Consciousness
            The tie that binds.

            • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

              Hey, and for all you "voter supression" folks, this OT post:
              Shame on you.
              YOU are UnAmerican.
              Voter Supression is an UnAmerican Activity.
              So Shame on you.

              Some House Democrat should convene the House Subcommitte on Unamerican Activities, and out these people trying to take the vote away from Americans they happen not to agree with.

              In Austrailia, voting is mandatory.
              Everybody is required to vote.
              Why not do this in the USA?
              Allow people to vote early, late, over one whole month.
              Everybody is registered automatically.
              Allow people to vote online.
              Allow people to vote by mail.
              Everybody gets to vote.
              America is a Democracy.
              So let's let everybody decide what kind of nation we are going to have,
              and in which direction we want the nation to move.
              Everybody is entitled to vote.

              Corporations don't get to buy the power of thousands of votes.
              Corporations are not prople, regardless of what the Supremes believe.
              Corporations don't get even ONE VOTE.
              Corporations get no votes at all.
              Only PEOPLE get votes.
              And every person should have ONE VOTE.
              Let's figure this out.
              Let's make this happen.
              Get the money out of politics.
              No nukes.
              G'night all.

              • mairs mairs

                The minority in the House can't hold hearings.

              • irhologram

                Umm. Actually, The U.S. is a Republic. Our constriction is not majority rule, but is balanced to ensure that those who represent us, (who were presumably wiser and moral) were to make sure uneducated masses didn't act like Pinocchio eating candy 'til he puked. I think George Washington saw this flaw and that's why he warned us about the "plot" that apparently existed from the beginning. With Diebold voting machines that are SO easily hacked, recalibrated, and physically "keyed," there is no logical reason to believe any election is real…since the results don't match the exit polls. (I find that to be a clue.)

                • irhologram

                  Lol. Our CONSTITUTION. iPad over zealous again.

                  • irhologram

                    So…Phillip. The U.S. is not a democracy. It's a Republic…as In : I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, (under God), indivisible, with freedom and justice for all.

      • ML

        And thank, support, and help proliferate the microbes that support plant and animal life, and human life as well.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    civilize |ˈsivəˌlīz|
    verb [ trans. ] [usu. as adj. ] ( civilized)
    bring (a place or people) to a stage of social, cultural, and moral development considered to be more advanced : a civilized society.
    • [as adj. ] ( civilized) polite and well-mannered : such an affront to civilized behavior will no longer be tolerated.
    civilizable |ˈsɪvəˈlaɪzəbəl| adjective
    civilizer |ˈsɪvəˈlaɪzər| noun
    ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from French civiliser,

    And the keys words are?

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Is this considered civil..lies.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    civil |ˈsivəl|
    1 [ attrib. ] of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters : civil aviation.
    • (of disorder or conflict) occurring between citizens of the same country.
    • Law relating to private relations between members of a community; noncriminal : a civil action.
    • Law of or relating to aspects the civil (or code) law derived from European systems.
    2 courteous and polite : we tried to be civil to him.
    3 (of time measurement or a point in time) fixed by custom or law rather than being natural or astronomical : civil twilight starts at sunset.
    civilly |ˈsɪv1l(l)i| adverb
    ORIGIN late Middle English : via Old French from Latin civilis, from civis ‘citizen.’

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    civil service
    the permanent professional branches of a government's administration, excluding military and judicial branches and elected politicians.
    ORIGIN late 18th cent.: originally applied to the part of the service of the British East India Company conducted by staff who did not belong to the army or navy.

    Thus the lie….