Official: All of these chemicals are coming out of ground by Louisiana sinkhole — Actually the chemical compounds are mixing together… some still not identified (AUDIO)

Published: February 19th, 2013 at 9:52 am ET
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Title: Spud talks w/Joe Harrison about the sinkhole
Source: WWL AM 870
Date: February 14, 2013

At 2:15 in

Louisiana State Representative Joe Harrison: We just started, I requested that we put a ring levee around the existing hole a couple months ago. We finally started doing that about a week and a half ago to be able to contain all of these chemicals that are coming out. Because they’re going out in the marsh which goes out into our waterways and we could have potential fish kills and God only knows what else, because they haven’t been able to identify all the chemicals that are coming out of the ground.

Host: Why? Are they just all mixed in together because it’s hard to separate them? What’s the number guess now, there are 40-50 different types of chemicals coming out, or are the mixing together and making other ones?

Harrison: It’s actually the chemical compounds are mixing together, they’re actually doing DNA testing to try to get a link as to where they could potentially come from, because there are a number of caverns in that area. […]

This was very volatile chemicals that were going through a lot of these lines that were running all throughout the area. So it’s a lot more complicated than just the hole.

See also: Official: Chemicals coming up at Louisiana sinkhole "could be leaching from actually below the cavern itself" -- May also be from "surrounding caverns in that area" (AUDIO)

Full broadcast here

Published: February 19th, 2013 at 9:52 am ET
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34 comments

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34 comments to Official: All of these chemicals are coming out of ground by Louisiana sinkhole — Actually the chemical compounds are mixing together… some still not identified (AUDIO)

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    I don't see any evidence of a ring levee.


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  • Thad

    The building of the ring levee has started and is in process–

    Harrison is mumbling– There has been testing and the chemicals present in the sinkhole are known– Hydrocarbons and Salt— And they don't mix. The hydrocarbons occured together in situ– and the salt is in the water–oil and water di not mix–

    The comment is more to the quality of political representation than anything else—


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    • Fette

      Sir, he actually knows more about this situation than you could ever hope to. Trust me.


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    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      "…oil and water [do] not mix…"

      Didn't you have some kind of drilling experience? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else. If so, anyone working on an oil rig can confirm that – for all practical purposes in their business – *crude* oil and water or brine most certainly DO mix, crude is often produced with quite a bit of water and they require some effort to separate. Technically, …emulsion – blah, bla, bla. Practical matter: stinky liquid dinosaur glop coming up to say 'hello'.

      I'm not just nitpicking here, Thad – there's a fair amount of soluble toxins in crude that are being released into the bayou even before the slop comes to the surface and begins oxidizing.

      The lab testing is specious at best. They show a rainbow of hydrocarbon components in one or two samples from a while back, while other samples (different time) show quantities of chemicals associated with plastic manufacturing. Bad sampling? Wrong containers? DOW hiding some nastiness in their caverns? I don't think anyone ever addressed it. The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality said "No immediate health concern – we would wash our babies in this water and then drink it"


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      • Thad

        PWIII
        Oil and water in an oil sand is held in separate pore spaces and come in contact when pulled from those spaces–If the oil/water mix were allowed to stand- as the water collects together converting fron sub-colloidal size it will separate –Yes there are oil/water separator but it is to speed the process before transporting.
        The is also a phenomona call "coning" where the flow path in situ pulls fron the oil on and the water on bottom of a formation.
        There is some fornation water coming up with the gas/oil a very small anount and there is no way to isolate for testing- so it the overall results of testing from the sinkhole.
        Now educate me – "fair amount of soluble toxins in crude" What? other than hydrocarbon complexes and sometime H2S – what toxins.


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        • PavewayIII PavewayIII

          Other than hydrocarbon complexes? I'm not sure – I was hoping you would have a better idea. The soluble hydrocarbons ARE the most toxic part. Organic acids, alkylated phenols? Benzene?

          I guess acetic acid isn't necessarily toxic, but you would swear it was if you ever ate my grandmother's pickles.

          Then there's those nasty PAH things. Granted, the heavier ones are only marginally soluble, but a little toxin is still a toxin. The lighter ones like napthalene are enough to wrinkle up your eyeballs, so I never soak my eyeballs in produced water. I like the sound of xylenes and use to play one in high school, but can't offer any kind of proof they're soluble.

          Let's see… how about some heavy metal ions: lead, manganese zinc/cadmium and barium. Not sure about mercury.

          NORM? Radium 226/228 and radon content of produced brine are going to be the same as the oil and gas. OK – maybe not toxic, but mutagens are generally, well… undesireable.

          The condensates in the natural gas there are adding their part to the party on their way up.

          They don't let produced water be dumped from any of the coastal platforms. Continental shelf rigs can only dump it if they pass all kinds of toxicity tests. A bayou pumper isn't allowed to drain it back into the bayou. I'm assuming that's related to toxicity. Maybe I'm wrong.


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          • Thad

            PWIII
            First eleminate everything from your list that is not naturally occurring then delete all those that DNR/DEQ testing has not detected. Then consider the quantity of crude actually coming up– the poison is in the dose.
            Heavy metal ions: lead, manganese, zinc/cadmium and barium. Again consider the amount detected in testing and the volume of formation waters amount so low it can't be measured.
            Offshore platfirm wells often have an open saltwater sand behind the internediate casng– produced waters are disposed of by pumping into annulus..


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            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              How come I get the *worst* fake Thad to argue with? ENENews isn't fair! I demand a better Thad.

              For those unfortunate enough to have followed this conversation:

              All those 'things' I listed are basic constituents of crude and natural gas condensates. Except my grandma's pickles.

              The only lab that would fail to find any of them in crude is a meth lab. The DEQ's contract lab would have found all of them in oily water samples. I won't even bother checking.

              Here's what the friendly produced water society offeres:
              http://producedwatersociety.com/index.php/produced_water_facts/

              And if there was such a thing as 'open saltwater sand', the only company that would use it for produced brine disposal on a working well would be BP. It would require an intentionally-punctured, poorly cemented intermediate casing and unsupervised, psychopathic well engineers – ones that will kill as many contract rig crew as necessary for 'good numbers' career advancement.


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              • Thad

                P-III
                "basic constituents of crude and natural gas condensates"
                Does not mean each and every one is always present, that is the reason I referred you to DNR/DEQ testing. And the fact that it is NOT a large of oil and formation waters.. If it were the concentrations would be higher and reason for more concern..

                Sorry I confused you with the term 'open sand' forgot you have no oilfield experience if you did you would have understood.
                When cenentimg casing annulus to formation it is from the bottom up.. The cement can be enough to come all the way to the surface or it can be short leaving a deep sand formation uncemented– 'open'. Later produced waters can be pumped down the annulus between the two casings to the 'open sand' These are NOT potable shallow aquifers but deeper salt water sands. This is a connon and acceptable method used both offshore and onshore.

                Your last paragraph does show your complete ignorance of the oil field and the people who work it.


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              • 16Penny 16Penny

                You can have my Thad Paveway, he still doesn't get that I am done. My Thad is getting lonely and confused with no one to argue with.


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  • Lion76 Lion76

    Thad–the master of dashes and incomplete thought


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  • haizedustrium-1234 haizedustrium-1234

    There are 10023300000000 atoms in one liter of water.
    http://www.chacha.com/question/how-many-atoms-are-in-a-liter-of-water
    When the long-range hydrophobic force is removed, an emulsion is formed that does not separate. An individual oil molecule is attracted to a water molecule by a force that is much greater than the attraction of two oil molecules to each other.
    http://www.ozh2o.com/h2phys.html
    We are not looking at pure water anymore. The atoms are side by side with others, bound or not bound. They are all there.


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  • irhologram

    Another story today suggests caverns (plural) are leaching, which means they failed, and I'd think those stored chemicals are the witches brew…probably a heap more than oil and water, plus everyone knows, various toxic chemicals travel with methane and oil migration.


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  • Thad

    irhologram
    "caverns (plural) are leaching"
    Did they say what was "leaching" the caverns–? the only thing that can leach/ dissolve salt is water- it takes 3 bbls of fresh water to dissolve 1 bbl of salt– and in so doing makes 4 bbls of brine–
    The nearest fresh water is the aquifier which bottoms out at 200ft. Top of salt is 700 ft, the tops of caverns between 2,700 and 3,400 ft–
    Water contacting salt becomes brine specific gravity 1.2, fresh water hs a specific gravity of 1.0… fresh water floats on brine.
    So where is the fresh water coming from- how is it getting to the caverns – and where is the new made brine going—-


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    • 16Penny 16Penny

      Thad,
      "And your contribution to the discussion is what—?"

      get your facts straight or stop wasting everyone's time.

      "the only thing that can leach/ dissolve salt is water- it takes 3 bbls of fresh water to dissolve 1 bbl of salt– and in so doing makes 4 bbls of brine–"

      You sound like a broken record, and to make it worse you are wrong.

      http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_salt_water_or_fresh_water_weigh_more

      "When salt (the solute) dissolves in water (the Solvent), the ions of sodium separate from the ions of chlorine and enter the spaces between the water molecules. In this process, the salt adds to the mass of the solution but the volume added is less than the volume of the original salt. To be specific, if you added one cubic centimeter of salt to a liter of water, you would find the water increased in volume only about a half of a cubic centimeter. Since a cubic centimeter of salt weighs more than a cubic centimeter of water, the density of the salt water has increased."

      Go do something productive with your life.


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      • Thad

        16P–
        So glad I've made your day. And you're right took you long enough to find the mistake. Actually volune increase is some 12%…
        Now as the new salt expert can you contribute a little more.

        What is leaching/ dissolving the saltdome / caverns?
        How is it getting down to the salt?
        Where is the new made brine going?

        My mistake was in reading a chart wrong. That does not change the fact that the supposition that the cavern are being leached away is so much nonsense.. Now if you answer the three questions then prove me wrong — wrong about something of real importance.


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        • 16Penny 16Penny

          Unlike you Thad, I only claim what I know or can prove. When I suspect something or disagree with a statement I say so (IMO or other qualifying statement to suggest I am unsure) and I do the research to clear it up if possible.

          Enough of your challenges, I asked you months ago to review your statements for factual accuracy and to report back on the last 100 or so. Still waiting. . .


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          • Thad

            16P
            You doubt my factual accuracy — you find the mistakes and you point them out.
            You suggest you know better– so you should have no problem -go for it – are is it just your suggestion–.
            You found one -a mistake reading a chart one out of how many comments –BFD
            I do make mistakes as does everybody and correct when I find or they are pointed out rather than whine–


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            • 16Penny 16Penny

              I don't even need statistics to know that you type without thinking or fact checking. Just like:

              Quote from Thad:"saving grace for the Bayou Corne area is the clays above and below the aquifer are water wet and the amount oil coming up is not enough to oil wet- Oil enters aquifer rises to the water wet clay seal ceiling then migrates lateral to vent—:

              You prove it. Put up or shut up.


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              • Thad

                16P
                Explain the difference between organopilic clays and hydrophilic clays- then explain what it takes to convert a water wet hydrophilic clay to organophilic that will accept oil wetting.
                How many wells have you drld in swamp/ coastal Louisiana. Are you aware that Bayou Corne area is only 3 ft above sea level surrounded by water, swamp and water wet sediment. I live in coastal
                Louisiana — Have you ever been to our part of the world–
                Retired after +40 yrs in the oil field I have learned a bit more than some one who has only read books and looked at the pictures.LOL


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              • Thad

                16P
                try this one- note sections Coastal Louisiana and Gulf Ciast Marshes watch for the term 'histosols"

                http://www.ehow.com/list_6188332_types-naturally-occurring-soils-louisiana.html


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                • 16Penny 16Penny

                  OK, the word histosols appears in the article 3 times.

                  "These areas share some of the same soil orders found in the northern and central part of the state, but also include histosols, which are waterlogged soils, consisting mainly of undecomposed organic matter."

                  and

                  "The soils there are entisols and histosols, which are both common in areas receiving sediment loads from river flooding. Histosols are common to many wetlands, especially coastal wetlands where undecomposed plant material makes up the majority of the soil profile."

                  Link to source:http://www.ehow.com/list_6188332_types-naturally-occurring-soils-louisiana.html

                  Neither passage pertains to:

                  Quote from Thad:"saving grace for the Bayou Corne area is the clays above and below the aquifer are water wet and the amount oil coming up is not enough to oil wet- Oil enters aquifer rises to the water wet clay seal ceiling then migrates lateral to vent—"

                  This is where my free research runs out. If you need further assistance with google I will be happy to help out for $60/hr.


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                  • Thad

                    16P
                    Amazing you ask for proof I provide, you read back and still denie—
                    BayouCorne is 'coastal wetlands'
                    Histosols, which are waterlogged soils, consisting mainly of undecomposed organic matter."

                    Waterlogged is the same as water wet


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                    • 16Penny 16Penny

                      I do not deny that you gave me proof that coastal Louisiana is a swamp. You did that Thad.

                      Now explain how you get from there to proving that:
                      "saving grace for the Bayou Corne area is the clays above and below the aquifer are water wet and the amount oil coming up is not enough to oil wet- Oil enters aquifer rises to the water wet clay seal ceiling then migrates lateral to vent—"

                      while avoiding the fact that the gasses from this are coming up through your saving grace impermeable pile of composting leaves, sticks and clay. It is permeating from below all around you. You cannot seriously deny that the hydrocarbons coming up through all of the geological layers, the aquifer and through the confining layer of swamp / clay are not reducing the bearing capacity of the soil. That is what this is about.


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          • Thad

            16P
            You doubt my factual accuracy — you find the mistakes and you point them out.
            You suggest you know better– so you should have no problem -go for it – or is it just your suggestion–.
            You found one -a mistake reading a chart one out of how many comments –BFD
            I do make mistakes as does everybody and correct when I find or they are pointed out rather than whine–


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        • 16Penny 16Penny

          And not even a thank you for helping you to see the ring of light around your neck, typical Thad.


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        • FREEDOMROX

          Umm, excuse me Thad, as I thought haizedustrium-1234 and myself explained just how this whole mix of sedimentary rock structures and the formations were acting in the fashion of a 'Natural Fractionation Plant'. There are very dangerous compunds within the toxic waters of 'Lake Oxy 3' and have been allowed to communicate as far as Lake Verret. Maybe you should go back and read that thread, sir.

          It's a little technical, but it explains a great deal…


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  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    If I told you once , I've told you folks a million times. Thad is a oil company shill and diversionary tactic. Too many people on here have figured out too many things by now. One of them is that THAD is a diversion paid by the oil fuks to keep you off track as much as possible. The more he keeps you off of the reality of the truth of FUKUCORNE the more he makes. There is some decietful coersion going on with some others that many ENE loyals have been lured into trusting to create chaos omongst those of us that really care. GOD BE WITH US that are true believers. I am ready if you need me almighty, without reservation or resistance. Bayou Corne is not just about the residents anymore. It's about the entire human race and our future. It's up to us now to either stand up and be counted, or lie down and be maulled. I'll be damned if I'm gonna take it lying down. I am in the process of putting together a Crawfish Boil for the residents of Bayou Corne and anyone that wants to show up and support the community(further details to come – sponsors welcome). I have made my choice in life right now, and that choice is to stand up and FIGHT for my neighbors and friends in Louisianna, our beloved neighbor and ally of the Great State of Texas.


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  • Sickputer

    After posting in four decades on Usenet and the web I know how many Internet forum contributors get distracted, disgusted, and mad about a post or a particular poster. It's not fun on a great forum if you let your angst override your control.

    I sometimes go joust with windmills on pro-nuke forums and have yet to be denounced as a shill because I choose my words carefully. The truth is always going to be the best post, not some accusation of hidden agenda.

    Do I think Thad is a provocateur shill trying to gain points for some hidden agenda? I do not. I would expect any agitators with such an agenda to be much more subtle and act under the radar.

    Emotions run high when the stakes for families are high. It is in such times of turmoil you must be more under control than ever. Nobody should get your goat unless you allow it. Keep your friends close and everyone else even closer.

    Keep your cool when everyone else around you is losing theirs.

    As Gump would say: "That's all I have to say about that."

    All the best,

    SP


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  • irhologram

    @sickputer. I have been VERY puzzled by the ferocity of the "shunning," which, itself, comes off looking like a hidden agenda…the name calling…the unseemly, perjorative, and even wacky disrespect has seemed to me to be WAY out of proportion, and in my eyes, has diminished the stature of several otherwise credible posters. I don't see Thad as insincere…and so on a scale, weighing who is sincere and who is insincere, those squawking around with tar brush and feathers look…well, insincere and have stepped in their own goo.


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  • irhologram

    Btw, I was not referring to the immediate, previous dialogue, but on comments made from the very first day THad posted, through when the administrator reprimanded someone for particularly disgusting references.


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  • Thad

    Chasing dead ends or in some cases dellusional fantasys distracts from reality. And when these dead ends, these dellusions have to re-write the basic laws of physics, math and chemistry– the sciences of geology and hydrology– they need to be exposed -debunked so we can move on and address reality seeking real answers— and to learn and to a degree educate those wanting to learn.
    It is sad that some can't handle that part of life, that their ego is so fragile that a disagreeing word cause them fits of whining, casting name and stones…There are those that toss out a comment with no back up and when ask either remain silent or go into a childish tantrum.
    Some here may have notice my comments are limited to threads concerning the sinkhole and the oilfield — WHY– honestly I've no experience in other fields so am ignorant.|

    BUT 40 plus yr in the oil field does give me a bit more knowledge through experience that someone that has only read the books and look at the pictures– not learning but the letters on the page- no idea or understandimg how to apply that knowledge.

    TM2020 – grow up — several comments back you ask a question- no one responded so I answered, your reply could have been silence- instead you have a tantrum because I replied. Very adult actions.
    There are others here that as long as you agree act as the finest of friends but at the first word of disagreement, especial with proof you suddenly become the turd of the day—

    Have a nice life—


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