Official’s 3/11 Notebook: Concern half of Japan to be “covered in nuclear waste!… Those 60 and older should be prepared to die” at Fukushima plant — “Fire out of control” at Reactor No. 4

Published: June 13th, 2014 at 11:14 am ET


Asahi Shimbun, June 12, 2014: [Cabinet Secretariat councilor] Kenichi Shimomura was shocked by the paucity of information available [at the start of the Fukushima crisis]. As it turns out, updates were pouring in, but [TEPCO] was reluctant to turn them over. […] “It was a major shock for me when I realized TEPCO headquarters had been receiving information” […] [On March 15, 2014] radiation levels at the Fukushima No. 1 plant site reached alarming levels […] He was suddenly awoken by a phone call and told: “TEPCO is saying it wants to pull its workers (from the Fukushima No. 1 plant).” […] In his notes, Shimomura wrote: “Leaving the plant site will never be allowed. We cannot have the eastern half of Japan covered in nuclear waste! […] Those 60 and older should be prepared to die” […] Shortly before 7 a.m., TEPCO officials handed out a document titled “On moving the main office function.” […] Shimomura records Tetsuya Nishikawa, who was then assistant chief Cabinet secretary, yelling at TEPCO executives, “Don’t you ever think that you are all right just because you are here (at TEPCO headquarters).” […] Around 7 a.m. on March 15, while Shimomura was at TEPCO headquarters, about 90 percent of the workers at the Fukushima No. 1 plant temporarily fled to the Fukushima No. 2 plant about 10 kilometers away […] the earliest that workers returned to the No. 1 plant was about noon.

More from Shimomura notes: [He] recalled feeling fearful when he learned that fire had been confirmed at the No. 4 reactor at 9:38 a.m. Seventeen minutes later, Shimomura wrote that TEPCO reported: “The fire is out of control.” It was only at about 11 a.m. that the blaze had burned out by itself.

See also: [intlink id=”japan-official-reactor-vessel-suspected-to-broken-off-at-fukushima-unit-2-after-explosion-a-catastrophic-development-us-expert-its-inconceivable-how-melted-fuel-can-be-extracted-video” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Published: June 13th, 2014 at 11:14 am ET


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703 comments to Official’s 3/11 Notebook: Concern half of Japan to be “covered in nuclear waste!… Those 60 and older should be prepared to die” at Fukushima plant — “Fire out of control” at Reactor No. 4

  • devark devark

    I don't buy it… It was probably much worse_ /sarcasm

  • devark devark

    unreal, it's like all those nightmares I use to have as a kid are real now … lol

  • knowerxdg


  • skizexq skizexq

    Ray Wylie Hubbard and strippers and radiation metaphors…

  • Gradius

    Human race doesn't have any future.

    • We Not They Finally

      How about the whole creation including all species and all life has no future. Perhaps Robots might??Only those who are already dead will survive to haunt the Earth?Thats why i feel perhaps that we will end up earth will end up without a Sun wandering through galactic space sooner or later maybe a very longtime later crashing into a far away Solar system on some very distant galaxy…Rogue Planet????

  • Sickputer

    Interesting thoughts by everyone.

    Good thoughts and questions by all. I liked Aftershock's conjecture. Especially (implying) if Unit 4 burned all its fuel, wouldn't the radiation levels and health damage be much greater? At least in Japan proper?

    We remember late 2011-early 2012 headlines about the danger of the building collapsing and fuel rods dumping on the ground with disastrous uncontrollable burning.

    New Japanese whistleblower (Shimomura) releases this week confirm Unit 4 fuel rods burned even in water the first several days (perhaps causing the erroneous assumption the pool was dry).

    People by the hundreds have been inside Unit 4 and on top. If there is fuel left and it is under 20 feet of water in a reinforced pool then the radiation is possibly non-life threatening for short publicity visits.

    The same can't be said for Units 1-3. Those same visitors are hurriedly driven past those nuclear hellholes.

    But back to the main question of Unit 4. Unresolved is the question whether Unit 4 in itself is a country killer. If the fuel all burned up would central Japan including 37 million people in Tokyo dissolve into ground zero type fatalities? Obviously if you think the fuel is all gone into the air, then it did not kill 40 million central Japanese citizens. Not yet anyway and we are 39 months past the first week of the disaster.

    To be cont…

    • Sickputer

      So perhaps fuel remains. I think quite a lot myself. Chernobyl burned for 11 days with far less fuel and the graphite burning issue remains unresolved as to graphite had any big role in the fire.

      Another corollary to the theory of total fuel burn for Unit 4 is what happened regarding the long anticipated China Syndromes.

      In 1986 Russians fixated on the possibility of a massive nuclear volcano explosion destroying Kiev. Never happened and their cold basement catcher had little effect on the ultimate disposition of the Unit 4 corium. 28 years later it apparently just eats away at a slow rate and still emits airborne emissions at a brisk rate…forever.

      There is a fascinated modern account of the Chernobyl corium and cover here:

      16 months ago a huge section of the old cover collapsed. Radiation is very high again. Not much mainstream news about that with the Sochi Olympics approaching.

      to be cont…

      • Sickputer


        The Japanese also feared along with virtually everyone except perhaps for the secret nucleoapes who run large scale corium experiments that the meltdowns at Units 1-3 would experience explosions upon reaching the water table in the mudstone fissures beneath the buildings. Surprise…massive nuclear steam fog bursts solved the myth of China Syndrome. No blowup, just terrible radiation steam. Not good at all for life forms, but less than most observers expected.

        No need to fixate on Unit 4…the other three have much more punch. 🙂


          good stuff, Sickputer. The geology of an area would influence the resulting steam levels of a rouge core's encounter with underlying water (aquifers). If a core were burning through a stable region of geological rock formations, it would have an explosive reaction when it eventually penetrated surrounding strata and finally encountered a large body of water.

          The fuku-plants are located over volcanic strata, which feature inactive fumerals. These 'tunnels' may have forced the rouge core mass to reform into traveling 'strands', which would have less of an explosive effect upon encountering large bodies of water.

          In either instance, the resulting steam would carry an unbelievable array of deadly rad-toxins. Depending on above ground weather conditions, the plume can condense into a ground-hugging fog that slowly sweeps the surrounding region with a "scythe of death"…

          • Sickputer

            I think also the size of the corium affects the reactions in the subsurface of the Earth. The Chernobyl mass is estimated at 200 tons in the link I mentioned above. How huge are those debris encrusted cores at Fukushima where the fuel load was much greater?

            Did those molten meltdowns turn into splatter, strands, rivers, or big balls? Sandstone/mudstone seems a feeble barrier compared to granite layers.

            The world wonders… but Tepco and the top nucleoape nations probably know much more than they will ever share.

          • itsanuclearwar

            One would think the temperature at ground level would be very very hot and therefore carry high into the atmosphere where it would travel most often towards North America and then rain out far away from Japan.

        • Thx sickputer for your thoughts and the link to Chernobyl. I'll read it. I agree that the other units are more dangerous now than Unit 4. I do tend to respond in threads that claim it's entire destruction because it undercuts claims that nuclear radiation is dangerous by suggesting the worst has happened and nobody noticed. I see it as misinformation that sometimes gets hijacked for whatever reasons. Unit 4 is my focus as an energy healer, so i will remain honed in on it, but, i have no illusions there are other far more pressing dangers from Fukushima and i appreciate that you keep bringing such good information and levelheaded dialogue to the uncertainty of those.

      • It is estimated that 500 tons of radioactive graphite burned along with however much of the core.

        What effect that graphite and burning evaporating lead had is an interesting question, but it has not been well researched.

    • itsanuclearwar

      If the fuel burned up and went into the air then the radiation went wherever the wind currents/jet stream took it and probably rained out over North America and not over Japan.

      Where is the evidence that hundreds of people have been on top of and in unit 4? TEPCO's photos and videos?

      To date, TEPCO has not told the truth about anything at all period.
      Not one thing have they honest about. Yet many enewsers believe Tepco regarding unit 4. Truly amazing! Pass the cool-ade and drink some more.

      • earthsmith earthsmith

        All valid…indeed so many variables.

        Temperatures,winds,time…if the rods did burn,underwater, the steam and vapor could have dispersed out over the sea or high up in the jet stream and possibly to Korea and China as well.
        It is my belief SFP4 was damaged and the rods got agitated and ignited so boiling began. Did the pool collapse, I don't know. There is probably some racks and mangled rod and pellets. My problem is I don't know how the fire extinguished…did it all burn?
        I also seem to remember the spring of 2011 having large flocks of migrating birds dying but I will have to check.
        Regardless most of Japan should have been evacuated as soon as they knew they couldn't cool the plant
        Pop, pow, kablamee….shoulda coulda didn't
        Now we got a problem
        It ain't going away, and TEPCO ain't gonna tell the truth. So we have incredible minds honestly and openly applying facts and debating data.
        We will find and tell the truth, and we ain't going away.

        • earthsmith, thanks for caring and mentioning the folks in Japan.

          I remember the birds, too, but i feed them here and it stood out. Folks wondered if it was the radiation or heat columns above the reactors. The heat alone could take the air right out of their lungs as they flew over. Thx for mentioning them, too 😉

          My answer to your question on putting out a SFP4 fire – yep, "We will find and tell the truth and we ain't going away." The industry questioned Jazko's report that SFP4 ran dry and fuel was burning. Their reasoning – if the water had not somehow leaked out, even without adding more, the pool water, itself, should reach an equilibrium and warm very slowly with normal evaporation and NEVER get hotter than 90C. It did not rise above that number, according to manual monitoring of the pool and thermal imaging. Thus begins the coverup theories. For me, the men placing the long water hose over the top of the broken wall near the SFP4 to add sea water and boron, imho, were able to do so because, unlike for the sea birds instantly falling from the sky, the wall was not hot. They were not putting out a fire, they were preventing one. The wall could never shield them from a melted SFP 4 just a few meters away. Like the birds, they'd die instantly. Yet, they chose the higher more difficult wall to mount, closest to SFP4, and farthest from the equipment pool, the easiest ingress. Why?

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Fukushima was bad enough in reality, truly a world-changing event.
    However, having said that, there is a "moving concensus" among most ENEnewsers about what has happened at FDNPP.
    Those who insist that things that did not happen, actually happened, do not help the effort to understand what is going on right now at FDNPP. To continue to quote NRC FOIA material, about the loss of SFP4, much of which originated in Tokyo as pure conjecture, and much of which has been widely proven to be in error, does not help the ENEnews effort. Many thanks to those who engage new voices at this site. Some new voives may not be as widely read as most long-time 'Newsers are on these matters. Your efforts to educate and direct some of the newer voices into more fruitful lines of inquiry are much appreciated.

    Some new voices here, however, provide brand new material. Those with new info. are, as always, most welcomed to post. Remember the early days of PattieB's posts? She was widely critised for posting previously unheard news, with inadequate links to bask them up. In the months she was posting here, however, she provided a wealth of great material, much of which we are still chewing on. 😉

    • So true; some of these seeds are germinating now and may bear fruit many years from now..

      Just because we don't agree with another version of reality doesn't mean we automatically have to attack it.

      Leave it, let it sit and see how things turn out down the road..

      Who would have thought back the middle ages, that the world was not flat and that the sun did not revolve around the stationary Earth, the center of the universe and all that mattered?

      Some crazy loon came up with a totally insane theory that the earth was round and the earth revolved around the sun.

      HERETIC! Burn him at the stake! Burn all his writings! Attack! No mercy! He is a terrorist, conspiracy theorist, fear monger!

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Some links on dry cask storage plans at FDNPP:

      Agreed, Aftershock and Sickputer.
      The 3 missing cores are the real story at FDNPP, not whether the removal of fuel from SFP4 is a hoax or not.

      Final thought on fuel removal at SFP4. We have been monitoring the speed of fuel removal from SFP4. I fully expect the rate of fuel removal to drop sharply as more and more damaged leaker fuel assemblies are handled for removal near the end of the fuel removal process. Some fuel assemblies will probably utterly disintegrate when handled, dumping their load of raw fuel pellets on the floor of SFP4. TEPCO will take a lot of time moving raw fuel pellets directly into dry cask storage, before calling fuel removal from Unit4 complete.

      Nor, did I mention the difficulty of removing fuel or corium from Reactor4 or the ruins of the Equipment Pool. 😉

      • PUN, agreed. And, maybe those pellets will have to remain in the pool? Do you know if the cooling process is the same within or outside the cladding if they are not refissoning? I'm hoping their developing a system will pay off when turning to SFP3, but, the debris in that pool was so much more and then they dropped the crane arm in there, too. The racks were also far more distorted in places, if i remember correctly. Maybe they should build another building around that one, too, but, they wouldn't want to include the reactor.

        Does anyone know what the industry thinking is on encapsulating a SFP in a sarcophagus?

    • itsanuclearwar

      What do you think about the fire in unit 4 on or about May 20 2014. Were they still unloading fuel rods at that time? Maybe shooting more film for ABC and PBS showing the PRISTINE UNIT 4 reactor and building housing that nice looking crane and spent fuel pool that looks like it is actually in some other part of Japan, other than Fuku?

    • clamshellernh clamshellernh


      Very well said Ty

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Couple of tpyos in my 11:37 post above:
      "…new voices", not "new voives"
      "…back then up", not "bask them up".


    • 4Warnd 4Warnd

      PUNorth: appreciating your rationally, evidence based insights herewith. Carry on…please.

  • The standard fear was that if #4 SFP fell over, and spilled it's guts, that the whole site would be evacuated due to high radiation levels.

    Burning 100% of what was in SFP #4, plus reactor, plus equipment pool… would that not have done the same thing as it falling over?

    The pools and reactor were full of a mixture of different things; some MOX, some fresh, some old and cooled, some new and never used.

    How did all of these react when the water level dropped? Certainly they all caught on fire, but what burned and for how long, and what effect adding water back in after that 'dry' period, no one really knows.. TEPCO says NOTHING BURNED. NOTHING MELTED, and nothing happened. Certainly that is a lie, because the pictures and infrared directly refutes this assumption.

    But on the other end, saying that 100% of all of the spent fuel pools and reactor vessel contents are GONE, burned and evaporated, just because of FOIA documents, and no other proof, is also not credible, due to the evidence of Chernobyl, which showed that even with an out of control fire, at least some of the corium goes DOWN, not up into the air.

    It would be nice if TEPCO were honest and transparent, so the whole world could know what happened, but they aren't. So the world is left wondering, and fighting with each other about what REALLY happened. Guess what? We are all on the same side.. Everyone has a theory about what happened, with different 'evidence'.

    The trial has not happened…

    • It would be nice to put TEPCO on trial and force them to submit REAL evidence, and provide proof of their assertions, and be able to cross examine them, and get witnesses to testify, but that will probably never happen.

      The criminals are running loose, and the whistle blowers are going to jail.

      • itsanuclearwar

        Do you know of any instances where TEPCO has not lied?

        • Good question… it would be like finding a passenger pigeon; believed to be extinct.

          They report that they made a profit of 4? Billion this year.. probably not a lie.

          • itsanuclearwar

            Exactly, and TEPCO is claiming that they are unloading unit 4. Of course they put a tent over the building so no one can see what is going on there. Gee, I wonder why?

  • 541 comments in one thread… is that a new record?

  • itsanuclearwar

    What was the reason for covering unit 4 with a tent? Does anyone even believe the reason given? Seems to me that no one at enews believed it at the time they announced it. But now it's believable?

    • But the whole site looks so NICE now.. appearance is everything.. Don't you like the new drapes, and the shampooed rugs? They also pressure washed the parking lots. Surprised they do not have artwork on the walls.. probably the next step of 'decommissioning' during 'cold shutdown'. (sarc)

      ….sweeping the mountains of radiation under the rug, so no one can 'see' it.

      • Dr. G, ordered appearance IS very important in Japanese society. It conveys much information and imparts certain energy in their system of beliefs. I go with Arnie on the reason for the cover – it can contain a certain amount of the radiation if a rod is dropped. Should one drop and break, they will have to stop, clean the entire facility inside, then start again. Without the cover, any mistakes would immediately go into the atmosphere. As well, the removal being done one at a time is very precise and they don't want rain and wind and debris interfering with line of sight, which is aways from the actual pool or more stuff entering the water and clouding it. That would limit them to only working on sunny windless days. It also acts as some protection from the many typhoons that sweep through there in the winter. I imagine that they also don't want something where the whole world watches with baited breath, each and every extraction of a fuel rod from the pond to the sling to the holding area.

        My bet is that the cover serves many purposes – worker morale to protective covering to public relations.

        • Yes, that sounds about right Radio…lots of reasons. And they do have quite a mess contend with, if they even can. Meanwhile, the pro-funded *we can have safe nuclear toys* folks just continue ever onward with their projects to help buck up the viability of nuclear industries. Quote from a recent article…

          "It's basically buying time for the reactor," said Andrew Griffith, the Energy Department's director for fuel cycle research and development.. an insurance policy."

          "Nuclear fuel has remained similar for decades. Uranium dioxide is compressed into a pellet about the size of a fingertip. Those pellets are stacked into fuel rods up to 15 feet (4.5 meters) long and placed in a tube, called cladding, made from zirconium alloy. That metal cladding resists corrosion in a reactor, holds up against heat and serves as a barrier that keeps radioactive elements in place without cutting too much into the energy produced by a nuclear plant.

          Nuclear fuel is supposed to withstand accident conditions, but the disaster at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant shows how it can fail when pushed to extremes.
          After an earthquake, tsunami waves crashed over the plant's seawall and disabled the electrical gear needed to run reactor cooling systems. When the cooling systems and backups stopped working, the reactors overheated. As water levels dropped, the metal cladding around the fuel reacted with steam and oxidized, producing hydrogen gas. Scientists blame that escaping hydrogen gas…

          • cont… "blame that escaping hydrogen gas for causing multiple explosions that damaged the facility.

            The same reaction also produces heat, further contributing to the extreme temperatures that allowed fuel to melt and radioactive byproducts to escape. Some oxidation occurs during a reactor's normal operation, but nowhere near the levels that occur in an extreme accident.
            Scientists are considering a range of improvements."


            Makes me so angry at their inability to see the bigger picture.
            We've got all of these engineers and scientists working to allow more nuke waste without even considering that there is NO way, NO place to store waste.

            • LastChants Teri, the nuclear waste is my biggest concern. For us, yes, but, especially for the future yet to arrive who may have no idea what awaits them. There is not enough industry desire as yet to find any real safe storage, but, again that is the way for many people – use it then throw it away, whatever IT is.

              But, if folks are around 1000 years from now and stumble upon something like the WIPPS salt mine, or the remains of Fukushima…i just wonder what allowed these scientists to think they even had the right to develop such a dangerous technology that would outlive generations. I know they were playing. They were seeing themselves as heros bringing energy through the splitting of the atom. I know they saw and still see themselves as clever and bright and pro-human, while so many of us see them merchants of death. That's quite a divide to cross.

              • A few years back there was group appealing to artists(maybe many groups for all I know). What possible graph or symbol could we leave wherever radiaoctive waste is being left or buried? For our descendants, who off in the future might be stumbling around collecting any refuse they come across, hoping to salvage anything that looked usable in the barren landscape.

                What would any person of any creed or culture or language cognition recognize as supreme danger? Good question. Mr Yuk? Exploding skeletons? The submissions were interesting….

                • Jeez, they were wondering about 30 years ago and still haven't figured it out. Yes, exploding skeletons would work think.

                  • Being a potter, I had thought maybe ceramic plaques, made from the best imaginable high fired clay recipe known to withstand ongoing radiation.

                    Circles of warnings with each circle showing an increasingly more dramatic little stick figure horror scene as they approached the center.

                    Actually, I don't think anything would work. 🙁

                    Future archaeologists will be sure to say, "Oh look… a primitive sacred site, let's go see what we can dig up".

            • @ LCT, "Accident resistent fuel." Can't get much sillier than that. Thanks for the link.

  • itsanuclearwar

    The videos portraying the unloading of unit 4 are as real as saying World Trade Center Building 7 fell due to a couple of fires on a couple of floors. Cool-ade anyone?

    • GQR2

      If there is anyone here at all that believes there is a fuel pool in unit 4 i don't know who that is,and why its even being discussed in that way IF it is – is beyond rediculous. The place was smashed to bits by the disaster. There are at least 4 reactors reacting in the open air behind that plywood. Nothing has been rebuilt. They may have pulled out some wreckage,that much we saw. Where they put this stuff appears to be in the ocean,and all over the place carted off in barges and trucks. This is the way they roll,lie,deny,discover and reveal long after the fact. They are going to be using mobile water trucks to remove water. Guesses as to where they are going to dump it. The TepCo management is evil. Evil to the core,those that help them cover up same goes. imo.

      • itsanuclearwar

        Sure glad to see someone that can see through all the smoke. Thanks GQR2. A little bit of common sense is all that is needed in this regard.

        • GQR2

          There is tons of common sense here,anyone who disgresses is highly suspect of wanting to divert,derail,distract,undermine,provoke,and who knows what else. Its not been up for debate ever. Its an obvious given. fwiw.


            unbelievable, GQR2. You're simply trying to strong-arm people into taking your position, by insisting that others "…divert,derail,distract,undermine,provoke,and who knows what…" if they disagree! Accepting the fact TEPCO is lying and covering-up the facts, how is it possible for you (or anyone else, for that matter) to conclude you're in possession of the real facts, when no one else could be?! Or is this just some kinda cheap attempt at fomenting fissures within this community? Good luck…

            • itsanuclearwar

              Calm down, no need to take things personal. May be I'm mistaken, but that was my first impression. Sorry if that's the case.


                not having a problem with you, itsanuclearwar. I appreciate that you're less confrontational with those you're trying to educate. And it bears mentioning, due mainly to interesting questions, the discussions on SFP#4 have, in my opinion, become far more interesting of late…

            • GQR2

              er no,i'm stating how i feel. WTF AFTERSHOCK? When do you forward information and links. Fissue in the community you love that don't you you freakin wacko. what community you dumb fuck? If you continue on this way i will be taking an extended hiatus.


                obvious, GQR2, you've degenerated into a problem child. Responding to another you may differ with as being a "freakin wacko" and "dumb fuck", reveals your inconsiderate nature. Along with your glaring abuses of posting etiquette, failing to recognize the existence of an ENENews community only confirms your lack of respect for this site…

            • GQR2

              the subject was the spent fuel pool in # 4 – there is no controversy there. So why start it today. Someone felt that the complete destruction of the spent fuel pool was something people (here) doubted.
              Does anyone here doubt this,did i find my way to the wrong forum today. You don't help AFTERSHOCK you never let of shit for the sake of thread. You act like you have some extra knowledge above and beyond what others here might think. ENOUGH already. i reported you. I read too much of your bs for too long.

            • GQR2

              Do my strong arms scare you AFTERSHOCK. Strong Arm indeed. what a bunch of endless bloviating bullshit out of you. Spare me.

          • itsanuclearwar

            There are some that might want to get you kicked off this site for talking like that in public. Heaven forbid that we might get to the truth regarding certain issues. Getting to the truth exposes an awful lot, too much for some.

            I have probably gone to far with this line of reasoning and might suffer more attacks and attempts to ban me.

            Why would someone acting in good faith want to limit or eliminate good faith efforts of exposing TEPCO lies and the radiation poisoning of humanity?


              in truth, itsanuclearwar, no one – other than this site's administrator – can get you banned. Abusive behavior and non-compliance with established posting protocols are the only determining influences behind getting banned…

              • AFTERSHOCK, you are being tag-teamed. Too much reasonableness and diversity of thought is clearly just more than some folks can take. Some people are just uncomfortable with a lack of conformity in a group setting. I appreciate your, and many enewsers broadminded natures, allowing anyone here to raise and answer questions that impact our lives, the lives of those we love, and the world we are a part of. No one should drive the agenda here. The articles drive the agenda with the relevant side conversations and links we can all bring to our posts. We are all here to offer an exchange of views, not to wholeheartedly agree.

                Coping with institutional lies and half-truths by powerful people, not getting accurate information, being at the mercy of a technology that doesn't even agree with itself much of the time is emotionally hard for all of us one way or another. The issues of nuclear energy has never been made so open to public dialogue until enews. The decisions got made by others, while most of us let them and accepted their choices every time we turned on our wall light switch, television, phone, or computer. NOW, should we trust these yahoos? Meh? Maybe a little, but not too much. They run the failing reactors and we do not after all. Working out a line of communication is usually wise in such cases with the people who have the power to make a choice that could end our lives in a single mistake.

                The discussion is just getting started. It will change the…


                  well aware of that, Radio. I spent ten-plus years managing one of the toughest radio networks in the country. Same thing occurred there. But every good "NETCON" learns, you must excel at turning lemons into lemonade.

                  Helping to maintain an environment that's conducive to – all – participants, is an obligation that each member undertakes upon logging into this site. I fully appreciate that some are uncomfortable with having to answer to other members. Yet, as I've stated long ago, if we're to avoid the threat of having moderated forums, then we must each be held to a standard.

                  THIS IS YOUR COMMUNITY!!! It is up to each of us to keep it reasonably clean and amenable. Civility alone is adequate to exposing and forcing the isolation of miscreants. Showing respect is often all it takes to resolve differences. Those who insist on using other tactics, are ultimately exposed as having objectives that don't serve the interest of the larger community.

                  Friendly nudges should suffice as openers. When you encounter a problem child, give them formal notice of Admin's rules, then move on. If you see you're dealing with someone who represents a potential danger to the site, only alert Admin.

                  And no one should be fooled by Admin's silence on these issues. Should any (including myself) think they've right to abuse his good will, they'll quickly be set right. Believe me, he's not sleeping at the controls…

          • Hmmm,GQR2 I think maybe your wording gets picked apart by AS and then mis-construed into something it's not…

            I read your comment as meaning that *…tons of common sense here, anyone who disgresses FROM COMMON SENSE is highly suspectED of wanting to divert,derail,distract,undermine,provoke,…*

            In other words I've perceived you to be pro common sense and and also that you're upset by the attacks on differing opinions that occur.


              guess it's okay, LastChants, to include you with those who have zero tolerance for those with differing views.

              Let's revisit his statement in its entirety:

              "There is tons of common sense here,anyone who disgresses is highly suspect of wanting to divert,derail,distract,undermine,provoke,and who knows what else. Its not been up for debate ever. Its an obvious given. fwiw."

              He clearly states that any who disagree with party line are suspect of one-or-more of a series of malicious motives, and others as yet unestablished. This Stalinist mentality goes on to seal the fate of the unwitting, by declaring that all debate's closed.

              So while you're about the process of further demonstrating your incisive intellect, do continue challenging what's glaringly obvious…

              • AFTERSHOCK, yoohoo! The party's happening over here. Grab that Glenfiddich and forgive the very obvious, mean-spirited, and oddly retractable slights coming your way, which you are on the edge of returning.

                Any time a rousing discussion happens on enenews – heck, most anywhere! – which explores further into an issue that makes some people uneasy, ranks close. Just how it is. Come back to the light and use your wit to help save us.


                  it's all good, Radio. Helping problem children is an honorable calling. Hopefully, it's also become an educational experience for the uninitiated. One need only compare their professed concerns against their actions, to glean what they're really about.

                  Identification precedes solution.

                  Their latest defense against logic is to declare any-and-every cogent argument as being the product of intellectual masturbation. Imagine declaring a site that features articles and forums on energy issues, as not being the appropriate domain for intelligent discourse! You've simply got to love it!!! You're now expected to dumb-down the dialog or risk their 'special attention'. I know I'm luv'n it…

                  • Well, that is a rather good point you make about this being a site that deals with energy issues. Oh well. It is also a site that draws many just for the chance to blow off some steam and name the enemy, which is just not my thing. Remember Maggie123? We email or social media from time to time. I so appreciated her presence here. We talked about creating a blogging forum where we could explore the issues more deeply without boring others or dominating the posts, often taking long discussions to the off-topic forum. I said i'd make the site, and i actually have, but it's not just about Fukushima. It's about paradigms, and cooperative dialogue, and my fiction writing. I realized that i didn't want to open things up to being verbally battered or coerced to conform, so i still have mixed feelings about the blog part of it. It sits there. This recent thread for me was both inspiring of what people can do when we work together and deflating for the anger and accusations. I know they are meant to silence and i never stay down long. Nor you. I don't post here often, but, you do, and i worried you were being 1969 CIP Reduxed. No one gets to get near SFP4 for long here. They were on you. You nipped it. See ya around.

            • GQR2

              yes that is spot on LastChants T. i will be backing off for awhile in deference to peaceful threads. You are exactly correct. Fukushima changed everything for me, thread drama is meaningless to me – much love and peace.
              No worries.said what i needed to and stand absolutely by it. Thank you for deciphering my post.

      • bo bo

        GQ what is going on….?? I've been so busy this week and only able to scan quickly but have been following this discussion on SFP4 on this thread to the best of my ability – and I am extremely appreciative of the video PUN posted ( thanks again shaker1 for pointing me to it.)
        Highly recommended – it answered many questions for me.
        Sorry if you have already seen this argument and are still saying SFP4 is totally gone – I haven't had the chance to really study closely who said what when on this monster thread – just trying to digest the information myself.

        On a personal note, my mother brought Oishinbo and Ichiefu, and many other great books, I will translate some pages and share with you all soon.

        • GQR2

          bo,that is great your mother was able to bring the manga! awesome.
          Listen i will drop you a line.

          No worries just reached the end of my rope.
          peace to all reading here.


        very cool, SadieDog. Make sure you flag Philip and the others…

      • itsanuclearwar

        A spent fuel pool that is cracked and has no water due to cracks and boiling because of broken pipes and power outages for days is like pissing in the wind. Kinda like the Statute of Liberty in Planet of the Apes.

        • SadieDog

          The reason I posted this pic. There is no way this is the pool we are seeing being unloaded. – That's my opinion…


            that's why I'm think'n a comparative analysis is in order. I've been going through a photo-box collection that obewan brought to my attention. I'm beginning to agree with itsanuclearwar's charge, that there's a big-time cover-up on what's happened to SFP#4. I'm still in neutral to the reasoning behind that cover-up…

            • AFTERSHOCK. Whaddaya got? Even Arnie says there's been a coverup. That doesn't mean the pool no longer exists. And, why would all the civilians with their geiger counters lie to us? That's hundreds of unrelated people fibbing. Why would all the independent scientists working to bring a halt to nuclear energy lie to us? Ruin their careers, get fired from jobs, lose funding just to lie to us?

              Motivation or a desire to deceive cannot stand as proof of the actual deception, and most especially, of an obviously very successful deception. It can only be one consideration, albeit a strong one. As long as the point is to show that the pool is no longer in existence and the laws of thermal dynamics have somehow successfully been defied, rather than prove that TEPCo et al lies, which is a given, then i'm game. But, if this is just more fear mongering and finding the evildoers, i have fear enough and i found the evil already.

              I would suggest that people who have experience looking at photographs of things unfamiliar to them, looking at altered photos, and people intimately knowledgeable of nuclear facilities be a part of the photo analysis team. As it is, looking through the Live Cam, folks have a hard time sometimes telling the difference between smoke, fog and low clouds because the images are grainy and when blown up, they become distorted, giving false impressions.

              • con't…Many people have little if any experience with photographic lensing and the coloration that occurs from the variation in light, temperature, moisture, and air density on a camera lens, which has led to all sorts of confusions and debates. So, what i'm saying is that if photographs are the main evidence, then i'd really like for photographers with such knowledge to weigh in rather than just leave it to each us to try and convince the other of what we think we are seeing. That could go a long way to helping us clarify this and i don't think it has been done anywhere yet. Which is a thought – has this been done and does someone know how to contact them or have a link to them? Let them know that we could benefit from their skills right about now.

                • itsanucleawar referenced Bldg 7again. It's a good example. Photographic evidence was central to uncovering that deception. It was obvious to everyone but denied by many and forgotten by most. So, i understand his reasons for referencing it. But, uncovering the deception of Building 7 took open minds without rancor against those who disagreed with their working theory. Each had to accept that they could find themselves mistaken about what they think happened and were about to start something that could prove them wrong. An undertaking such as you are proposing AFTERSHOCK would really require a similar commitment, everyone who participates knowing that they may have to let go of their favored theory or their absolute certainty to reach the truth because "Certainty" and "Truth" are not the same things. I really am game. It would be hard, sometimes frustrating, and very rewarding.

                  • And, so there is no question, i am not qualified to analyze the photographs, but i would hope that anyone interested could be a part of choosing which ones seem to show the best views, etc? and also get to comment on them from time to time?

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      nice summation of the problem, Radio. A team of qualified volunteers would be needed, if this issue's to be resolved. Unfortunately, I'm not qualified to do forensic analysis of images. Worse yet, the majority of available images that would be relevant to this investigation, are likely re-sampled copies of the originals. Once an image is re-sampled during the copying process, evidence of tampering is often lost or arguable…

                    • AF, i think we might have at leat some of the resources amongst the tjousands here at enenews. We would have to engage others of course. But, we might be able to get a good start on it. I've asked both PUN and itsanuclearwar to make lists of what they think would be needed to even begin. I'm looking to see if we even have enough common ground and i'm intrigued that the photos are compelling enough to begin to change your mind. That puts you in the unique position of being more open than me and PUN. So, your list might look very different. Then we invite others and take this to the Off Topic Forum, carve out a little spot there. I realize that this is a big ask from everyone and i actually see it as taking about a year, a little bit here and there each week, but, just a really good look, as best that we can do.

                    • No question not a single photograph alone can be vetted, but, altogether, they might be able to stand up. I bet we have some retired military that have examined photos in their careers? Or, i bet we could find someone once we figured out which pictures seemed the best to all of us? I may have to take "Sorry, but No" from each and everyone, but, i'm in the mood for some organizing rather than arguing 😉

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      so's to save time, Radio, first determine what if-any images are suitable for analysis. If you can arrive at an acceptable number, move on to establishing the investigative criteria. You'll also want to establish an environment that's conducive to focused discourse. Other than periodic updates and invitations for participation, you'll want to avoid open forums. I advise your contacting HoTaters to get her take on setting up research groups. She knowledgeable in this matter and will likely offer helpful pointers…

                    • AS, i'll do that. Can you repost the images or tell me where to find them. i lloked at something obewan speaks posted and something VanneV did, but, i didn't see very many images. Maybe i hit the wrong link.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Yeah, Im interested in the photos that show the SFP before the new structure, with water in it. Not photos from underwater, which could be anywhere. You see blue tarps, white tarps or metal plates…and I think I saw one with water too but I dont know where.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Radio, perhaps start with this Gunderson video


                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      problem, Radio, is I only have access to the same images as you. I'm just looking at the same ones. That's why I stated, this investigation will require qualifying the evidence first. For instance, each bit of evidence (image) has to be tagged to it's originating source information, as well as technical condition. You'd also need to establish contact with all originating sources and request copies of their images, and if possible, rights to use the images in any public reports. Of course, by the very nature of the investigation, sources of suspect evidence (touched-up images) will be reluctant to cooperate. But that can be turned to your advantage, as it is precisely those images that you'd be interested in exposing as being fraudulent. This investigation must be undertaken in a structured manner…

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    Radio, the lamentable illustration of WTC demolition is how blind deaf and dumb is the populace of civis and engineers. It takes about half hour to look over the NIST summary to find that only 3 or 4 of the 47 core columns were destroyed and less than 20% of the outer grid which was designed to redistribute load. But you dont have to go that far, because right on the cover is a photo of Edna and a few others, waving from the airplane hole that was supposed to cause this great heat that melted the truss. But you dont have to even pick up the report, just look at a photo of the Niagara falls of dust and the explosive plume, the top bit disintegrating for no reason, and you know what happened. Even uneducated people should have seen it, and what can you say of the Universities and engineers? Pathetic,…I guess its a sign of mans devolution. Anyway building 7 is not related to the two big towers in demo style. Why do people need 7 when theyve got 1 and 2 for in your face obvious demo? Debate is an affront to common intelligence in this case

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    Radio, certainty is never 100% and truth is never 100% due to the severe limits of the human capacity. But regarding letting go of beliefs… just to set the stage, I made the effort to illustrate that data collection and analysis by DOE et al was e one of the major technological achievements of the century (paraphrase). This was passed off as garbage in garbage out. This flip dismissal is not becoming of proper modes of inquiry. Thumbs down. But I will add to it, for what little Its worth; Jaczko said they were very, very sure the water was lost. Thats a double very assigned to the sure by the dept of redundancy dept. TEPCO then confirmed this and the incident given a level 4, whilst the complete devastation of unit 3 was upgraded to a level 5. Even if they refilled the pool and put out the zirc fire with hydrazine/water/boron or whatever, and manage to pull a few assemblies out, I will admit its irksome what some people will ignore to satisfy their belief suppositions

            • combomelt combomelt

              Is the following video genuine?


              thanks all…

              • @combomelt, my reply to you showed up down below, sorry. The short version – yes. Unit 3 just to the north, Pacific Ocean to the east. Like Jebus says, SE corner of Unit 4.

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                combomelt, perhaps an equally good question is how those people can be there when there is a source measured at least 10 sieverts/hr a stones throw away? Talk about kryptonite! Where is the water in the SFP? Maybe the contents are somewhere way below, covered with iron plates and water flows, just like the rest of the place. Or maybe the pellets are in the SFP, along with zirc fragments and massive debris, bathed in a hydrazine/borated water mix, and you can risk your life walking around there for a few minutes…

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                combomelt, the video looks genuine…reporters, police and workers walking in a surreal death zone.

                And now to see whats just underneath the steel door number 4!

                Exposed fuel…probably a lot melted/burned, then maybe…or maybe not…filled up with water and chemicals for tidy removal of 1500 assemblies (and no place to put them)


    • Don't let's go back to that one, friend.

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    We can see the Crane Building's cover.
    We watched the Crane Building go up.
    Hundreds of reporters have toured the equipment floor of Unit4.
    And the Common SFP.
    Think they are all being paid off, do ya? 😉

    • itsanuclearwar

      Being paid off? Do you think that is something new? To further the war on terror, they stage whole terrorist camps for the nightly news. For Fuku they stage whole reactor buildings for the nightly news. They pay off all of those players, they don't do it for free. Seems to work too, fools most people. All that is needed is some talking heads to further the hoax. They say that if you repeat a lie enough times that people come to believe as the truth.

    • I agree with PUN. So there are at least 2 of us who think that SFP4 is in tact, and TEPCO is showing a real SFP4.

      It's my opinion that the melt out occurred only in Equipment Pool 4 and the melt out was of prolonged duration (days), and this intensely heated the wall, finally melting the re-rod inside the wall of building 4 and this allowed it to slump.

      SFP4 and EP4 share the same water. But SFP4 is twice as deep as EP4, so EP4 can run completely dry while SFP4 still has enough water to completely submerge the spent fuel and spent fuel racks.

      IMHO this is exactly what happened. SFP4 lost 1/2 of its depth, leaving its contents totally protected and under water. EP4 lost all of its depth, leading to the melt out and nuclear fire.

      • Jebus Jebus

        File: CoriumFoot.jpg

        Thats the north side of #4, below the equipment pool.

        I really think the the #4 pool suffered some damage, but the true conflaguration was in the EQ pool with whatever hot rods they set in there, out of the way, to juggle the other rods.

        Keep in mind any reactor can have a few "unique" fuel rods in strategic places, depending on the configuration, and the results intended.

        The telling documents, of what was in, what was coming out, and what was going into the reactor, when the earthquake struck, are the mathematical equation documents that validate and verify the configuration intended for #4 reactor during that refuel period.

        Needless to say, something bad happened at that north part of the building.

        If it is splatter from reactor #3, are we any better off, radiologically?

        • combomelt combomelt

          Is the following from reactor 4 or not??


          • Jebus Jebus

            I would say yes.

            The ocean was to the east. They were on the south east end of reactor #4.

            They were so close. Alerts for all…

            100? yards away. An empty? reactor being refueled.

            Nothing in it. Sure was covered up.

            Hey look, the pool is fine. Waddaya talking about.

            Nothing bad happened here. No, don't go over there.

            Something burned at Fukushima Diachi Unit #4.

            What? Evidently not the spent fuel pool.

            Not much anyways. Relatively speaking…

          • combomelt, good link. Thx. It looks like Unit 4 to me as the title says, the refueling floor above the spent fuel pool. We can see Unit 3 to the north by the obvious damage and also the sea to the east as Jebus says. I hadn't even thought of the sea birds coming in to roost there once those walls were down and the structures left open, but, clearly one was calling in the background. Sad. TEPCo intended to leave Unit 4 as it was and deal with other issues and let the SFP act as an indefinite cooling pond. They had removed the worst of the broken debris with heavy machinery and piled it somewhere and shored up the structure beneath the pool in case of more earthquakes, which was still not strong enough . There were quakes and large aftershocks for quite some time. But, a great deal of international pressure pushed them to prioritize removing the fuel as soon as possible given those quakes. So, the plan to build a structure around the old one, then remove part of the damaged girders holding the pond was in the making. The guy in charge of repairs for either TEPCO or one of the three companies TEPCo hired to do the work on the various projects was being updated on what work had been done so far. I'm not sure if the decision to go forward had yet been made, but, that took almost another year of construction and removing debris from the pool, repairing the crane arm and track etc. As the pool cooled, they could go from 10 minute work shifts to a few hours. Maybe longer…

        • Jebus, that's a good question about the splatter if it was Mox fuel. I was thinking about a radiologic contribution from Unit 3 as a third possible explanation for the damage we see in Unit 4, as well, and if that happened, then that whole area between the two units must be pretty heavily contaminated.

          • Jebus Jebus

            If thats what that is, it's kind of a big chunk of splatter to be all flowing out like that from around the corner. #3 went bang, for sure. It just doesn't fit.

            I have seen the IR pics.

            The EQ pool burning, fits the whole scenario.

            Lets put these "special hot ones", right over here while we change the others out.

            It's a fact they had it in #3.

            It is the most logical explanation.

            It even fits the SFP and Tepco show.

            If true, it explains much about #4…

            • Jebus, that's true. That would be a lot of slag for what was clearly an explosion that fragmented and vaporized at least some of the corium. Talking about it now, i think Arnie G. suggested that given the design of these Mark I BW reactors, the golden cap tends to expand and push up when heat gets trapped beneath it, which was why they were banned from being built any further in the US. I think he said in reference to Reactor 3, that the cap was actually ajar from the explosion, which would mean that most of the force would have a way to go up and out rather than through the bottom or sides of any cracks. So, that puts it back to the equipment pool for me, too.

        • Jebus, did you mean to post this porn link?

          • Jebus Jebus

            Not a porn link if you can keep your mouse from clicking everything before you read it.

            It's a file hosting site. The AD buttons are obvious.
            They gotta eat too…

      • PostNuclear, thx for the post and the added info about the shared water and the pool depths. I didn't know that.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        PostNuclear, maybe you have seen this before…if not, check it out. SFP4 was dry, exposing at least the tops of the bundles, the massive crane adding insult to injury. I think some people (not you) have are not accustomed to the idea that when you blow something to smithereens, it gets broken… a little like when you poison the ocean, the animals die…

        • I think Arnie is connecting the dots the best he can on March 31 2011.

          It's a question of how one chooses to connect the dots.

          The so-called boxes that Arnie refers to are not necessarily the fuel racks that are normally under 30ft of water. They could be something else.

          I have a tough time agreeing with Arnie given that the 'boxes' in the picture are in a backwards L-shaped layout with the legs of the L being 3 or 4 boxes wide. Yet the official picture of the fuel racks shows a layout more than 10 boxes square. Did something split the racks? How could the split be so clean?

          Or did something crush the part of the rack between the two legs of the L? Again, the hypothetical crushed area is too orthogonal to be likely amid the chaos of twisted metal.

          If somehow these are indeed the fuel racks, how much below the top of the rack is the actual spent fuel that requires water for moderation? Another missing dot. We are forced to guess.

          Summary: This video does not convince me that SFP4's water level dropped below the top of the spent fuel.

    • PUN, let's do the analysis AFTERSHOCK is thinking about. Maybe move this whole project to the off-topic forum. You are a clear thinker and organized thinker. Could you begin a list of what issues would need to be addressed such as radiation evidence, pots, etc, where some links to that might be found, stuff like that with the idea of presenting it a contribution to a work list. Given how far apart many of us are on the issue, even to what stands as evidence, it needs to be pretty basic and accessible and doable. I will ask others for their list, too. You'd be great at it.

  • itsanuclearwar

    There is another major hitch in the theory that they are unloading fuel rods from unit 4. From the beginning, TEPCO and all others, have done absolutely nothing to improve the conditions at Fuku, NOTHING. Nothing has changed in that regard. Fuku was not an accident, it was by design. Even if they could unload fuel rods from unit 4, they wouldn't waste the money on something that might fix what they intend to destroy. If you one doesn't understand that by now they are way behind the 8 ball and may never see the light.
    Ask Mr. Obvious.

    • itsanuclearwar, instead of us just arguing randomly back and forth, let's all go with AFERSHOCK's suggestion that we all work together to get to the bottom of this. He's starting to lean your way. I've asked PUN to start a list of what he thinks would be necessary to making this work such as photos, radiation research, stuff like that. He may or may not be up for it. I don't know yet. It means a lot of work. I'm asking the same from you. You've studied Bldg 7 and 911, so you know how conspiracies work and how the public is persuaded and how evidence slowly got brought forth. So, maybe you could do a similiar list. Talk with CGQR and Lastchants T and others, and make a list of what you would all feel MUST be looked at or gone over or considered to help us all prove your point. I'm suggesting that we all meet up at the off Topic Forum so that we aren't forcing others to have to wade through our off topic posts, which is just a curtesy on enews. What ya say? I'll check back soon. I will be asking AF if he is willing to make a list, too. Maybe others will, too.

  • The West doesn’t need nuclear for energy independence
    The future for Europe and the US lies in renewables
    June 16, 2014 4:30AM ET
    by Paul Hockenos

    "In the past, critics of nuclear power went to great lengths to point out nuclear energy’s inherent danger. Consider the meltdowns at Three Mile Island in 1979, Chernobyl in 1986 and Fukushima in 2011, they said, on top of the untold number of smaller mishaps that never make the headlines. And then there’s the unsolvable dilemma of radioactive nuclear waste, which nobody wants anywhere near their backyards.

    In Europe these two strands of argument were enough to convince Danes, Italians, Austrians, the Irish and the Portuguese, among others, never to gamble with nuclear. Germany, Switzerland and Spain caught on later and are in the process of exiting nuclear power now.

    But these days the safety arguments pack less punch. Not because they’re any less valid but because the costs and financial risks of building new plants are so clearly prohibitive that nuclear power doesn’t make sense even if the safety risks were zero. In a nutshell: New nuclear power doesn’t pay. In fact, it’s dramatically more expensive than the newest generations of renewables (in particular, wind and solar)."

  • melting mermaid melting mermaid

    I don't think it matters if sp4 is there or not. Your arguing over varying levels of fubar. Once you're fubarfat, it really doesn't matter how fubarfat you are. Just remember, we are all one and fubarfat. Namaste.

    • itsanuclearwar

      Apparently it's pretty important to TPTB that we believe TEPCO's dog and pony show. I think it's important that we know all the truths. Maybe your right and maybe this is being used as a distraction to conceal something else. I spent more time on this than I wanted to, but I think the people here at enews deserve the truth. Mr. Obvious thinks I'm on the money about SFP4. TEPCO's batting average is 0 when it comes to telling the truth, I think most agree with that.

  • itsanuclearwar

    The people that read enews need to know that there is a lot at stake for TPTB regarding whether or not the public believes the official line that SFP4 is being safely unloaded. The minimum of the evacuation of Tokyo and much of Japan, and of course the Olympics which is really just part of the hoax. (Of course that is just my opinion, about the Olympics)

    There is a huge push with the MSM and the alternative news to drive home the notion that TEPCO is saving the day regarding SFP4's safe unloading. TPTB were not born yesterday, they have at their disposal the best minds in the world, they have since before any of us was born. They own and control the MSN and much of the alternative news. They have had their people including their "controlled opposition" (like Alex Jones) in place before 3-11-11 for the purpose of steering the direction of what and where the info leads to in forums like enews.

    We all know that those types have come and gone here at enews. There may be some here that are not so obvious. May be here to steer certain important issues in certain directions. I'm not saying anyone is so don't take this the wrong way. Some of us are going to believe things that others will not, regarding issues at Fuku. Some beliefs will be genuine, and chances are some will be that of the controlled oppositions agenda and feigned.

    I'm not trying to divide this community. I'm just saying keep your eyes open. Read between the lines. Ask for proof.


    • itsanuclearwar


      This is nothing new to me. I can tell you that these controlled opposition types are professionals and very good at what they do.
      They will fit right in and gain your trust and many times your sympathy. They come in groups but hide it well.

      Think about it, regarding Fuku, is there a forum open to the public that would be better targeted than enews? I'm sure Facebook and such are loaded with them, I don't participate so I'm assuming that.

      The people here at enews needs to be aware of what we up against. TPTB know how to cover the basis and are normally 2,3,4 steps ahead and they are going 24/7 all the time.

      Best regards

  • blackbuddha blackbuddha

    BREAKING! 06/15/2014
    NRC Hon. William C Ostendorff Claims Fukushima Fuel Pools Are Fine

  • The only question is not if something bad happened, but HOW bad it was. We all know TEPCO is lying, but HOW MUCH are they lying?

    Is the whole Fuku site scrubbed clean down to the ground, and all of the cameras and news reports about it are just a show and tell consisting of a fake stage and CGI effects, including the 'live' cameras?

    What is left? That is the question. Some people believe NOTHING is left of #4 building. Some people believe something may be left, but that TEPCO keeps lying about the whole thing, no matter what.

    Let's all agree to disagree, but to keep digging and staying open to more information as it comes in, because it is highly unlikely than any one person knows the whole story, YET.

  • zogerke zogerke

    Too many "Master-DeBators".
    It was a great and interesting thread for a long while here and then it degenerated.
    It is OK to disagree with arguments or theory premises. It is OK to get pissed in general.
    It is NOT ok to start with the personal attacks, and personal analysis, no matter how honey covered your educated words, and no matter how earthy and four letterfull. Some people on here, they curse, everyone takes it in stride. Some curse and get excoriated, dissected, character assailed.

    too many family dynamics are playing out in group dynamics among utter strangers here, each person with his or her annoying, dysfunctional, nasty family script.

    . Feh. Blahblabla another flavor of disgusting.. many of us are participating less these days. I suppose it is just cyclical. Though this WAS a great thread, for a while…..

    • Sparky Sparky

      Hi Zogerke, Last ChantsT, and all: As one 'Newser who is posting less, it is hard not to become discouraged when this site is used for personal attacks, ego-stroking and virtual psychoanalyzing of fellow 'Newsers’ motives, personalities, etc.

      I'm posting less primarily because my family and work life have become pretty hectic these past several weeks. I'm trying to keep all in perspective, trying to enjoy this beautiful world, being with loved ones, being productive while I/we can against the backdrop of global catastrophe—nuclear and otherwise.

      I continue to check-in frequently, "lurking" more than posting these days. I'll set aside more time for Enenews in the near future, but for now, I simply do not have the time, energy or interest in wading through uncivil or self-aggrandizing posts.

      This is still a great site and wonderful community but we will need to work to keep it so.

    • Sorry, zogerke, if some of us, such as myself, bloviated too much, but, it was a good thread, i thought an important one, and one of the most posted upon. I don't get out much nor get here much and i tend to ramble on when someone engages me on a topic. I did try to take it to the Off Topic today, but no takers.

      • Sparky Sparky

        Radio, I'm not clairvoyant, but I don't think that Zogerke was referring to you/your posts. For the record, I've appreciated your comments and (most of) the discussion overall, so keep posting.

  • Another +100000000000

    I've seen it a lot where I've posted or simply lurked on various forums…Only we call them the MasterBaiters. 🙂

    I try to hold with the thought that "What others think of me is none of my business*

    Brainstorming is an art and we've got great info being posted here to take into consideration while the net is still alive and functioning. There may come a day (whether because of nature or human intent, our grid goes down).

    In that case, communications may be back to tin cans, gut instinct and telepathy.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Oh, I heard it on the ray, de oh…

    Say it ait so, Joe!

    Yep, I heard it on the ray, de oh!

    Drove my chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry.

    Sad songs say so much.

    Every picture tells a story, don't it?

    Every picture tells a story, don't it?

    • Jebus, you are posting a porn invite link.

      • SadieDog

        Radio, If you click the grey download button instead of the blue ones, you get a pic of Fukushima 4.

        • Jebus Jebus

          But the blue ones are more shiney…

          Lol, clickers. Advertising sucks you in.

          It is what it is. The picture too.

          Capped from the vid…

        • lickerface lickerface

          I clicked on that link above, and my Android immediately downloaded some file called mobogenie_(and some numbers after it). My OS flagged it as malicious. Someone please destroy the above URL. Even at the URL there was no image link directly or indirectly. Again, I clicked on NOTHING there, and my Android has NEVER started downloading a file like that. There was no initiation whatsoever.

          • lickerface lickerface

            This is what that URL is doing:


          • Jebus Jebus

            I just clicked it and got

            Funny you don't see the word "Ad" on the blue button.

            No wonder the spammers keep trying. People mindlessly click on shit…

            Here's another hint: uncheck the box…


            you can bring it to admins attention, lickerface, by clicking on the "Report comment" link within the comment window. However, it's not likely it'll be taken down. Admin can't be bothered verifying claims that posted links are hazardous. But I think your notice is valuable. Thanks…

            • SadieDog

              Why would you report Jebus?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              • SadieDog

                Because your fucking stupid?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                • SadieDog


                  • SadieDog

                    Not really reported because I don't waste admins time with nonsense. But you, AFTERSHOCK are persona non grata to me now.

                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Sadie, come on, please give it a break. 🙂

                  I am pretty sure the report button has a descriptor box to identify why you are doing the reporting. Here you can identify any supposed link that may be suspect in anyones posting.

                  We really all should try to get along and agree to disagree when ever it's necessary.. 🙂

                  • SadieDog

                    Really Obe. I have in all my weeks only reported 1, ONE comment that was not an obvious advertisement. It was meant as a sarcastic dig to ASS.
                    You are truly a Jedi.

                    • SadieDog

                      I'm not as stupid as I look. 😉

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      When I stated "you" it meant anyone and not you specifically. 🙂

                      I have been here for years and never reported anyone, but then that dating thing, black, white, orange, brown, yellow is looking tempting if you/we/us are a flying monkey. 🙂

                      Just kidding..

            • Jebus Jebus

              Hey!, no reason for that personal shit, if the link is dinging Smart?phones, then absolutely report me, err.. the link. I posted it a couple of times.

              It kinda looks like that vid cap on datafilehost of #4's north wall early on doesn't matter anyways…


                it's all good, obewan and Jebus. He obviously challenged by what's going on out here…


                quick P.S., Jebus. If you can remember where the other links were posted, self-report them so admin can remove them. Use something like "suspect link to malicious code". Obviously, admin's busy and may never get around to the flags. Still, it's a due diligence thing…

                • Jebus Jebus

                  I see that…

                  Shall I do it quickly, for one out of seventeen downloads. Maybe too many have seen it?
                  It's obvious that not enough have…

                  I'm thinkin you could use a break. Obe and I will take over for a while. 😉

                  • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                    thank you much, Jebus. You guys are very considerate.

                    Just flag the ones that have the bad link. If you're the one reporting the posts, admin will likely take them down. Just be aware, threaded comments that follow what's removed will be lost…

  • Jebus Jebus

    “Fire out of control” at Reactor No. 4

    Kind of a serious sentence.

    Logic tells me that is a very bad thing.

    For a long time. Forever.

    Something burned at #4. Wasn't an oil fire.

    Nuclear power needs this to not be, bad news.

    “Fire out of control” The pool itself, not so much?

    Dog & Pony Shows. Carnivals. = Nuclear Think Tanks.

    A grand Ball was hatched. We'll rebuild. We'll show 'em.

    We'll make it all bright and shiney. Green.

    What you see is what you get. Good Times.

    What you never saw, you already have.

    It's a perfect lie. We watched them build it.

    The spent fuel pool is in relatively good shape.

    "Let me be perfectly clear, no harmful radiation will get to the West Coast of the United States."

    But, Mr. President, "What about the equipment pool?"

    I'm sorry, we're out of time.

    Something burned at #4 reactor. While it was offline.

    Out of time. How many times now?

    How much was released? It's starting to not matter anymore…

    1, 2, 3, 4, it's the sum of all the parts. And counting.

    It's not okay…

    • bo bo

      Hi jebus… thank you for this SFP4 wrap-up for laypersons.

      I appreciate how you broke it down

      into almost free form poetry

      And space for breathing

      Now all it needs

      is a simple pen-drawn diagram

      scribbled onto a bar napkin

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Many thanks, Radio, for your suggestions for collaborative research into what happened at Unit 4.
    I believe there are many interesting issues with Unit 4, and would enjoy contributing to the effort you propose.
    Collaborative research could be the best thing to come out of ENEnews, and I believe it is very important. Which off-topic forum do you want us to post to?

    My first offering is the following photo:
    SimplyInfo has a photo gallery, with extensive photos showing every stage in construction of the Crain Support Building, which was built over the ruins of Reactor4. Here, the new green overhead crane is being lifted into place. Obviously, TEPCO wouldn't have built the Crane Support Building, with expensive new cranes, if there was no intact fuel to remove. Enough said.

    I was just viewing once again the helicopter water drops on Unit 4. I wanted to see if you can tell which side of the building they are trying to dump water on, the SFP or the EP. Can't tell. The helicopter went up with the mission of hitting Unit 3. But the pilot thought their time over the ruins would best be used trying to put out the fire at Unit 4. They cut the effort short when their rad counters pegged out over Unit 4.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Great thread.. 🙂

  • Sparky Sparky

    MONSTER thread, 'Newsers!!! 699 posts–must be an Enenews record! C'mon, who wants to claim the 700th post?? (Hopefully, not the inter-racial dating spam bot….)

  • Jebus Jebus

    FUKUSHIMA Spent Fuel Pool #4: The Leaning Tower of HELL