Paper: TEPCO needs to check if high radiation doses are “spreading elsewhere” — Two more spots appear to be above 10 sieverts per hour, but no plans to actually take measurements

Published: August 2nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm ET
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Highest levels of radiation since March 11 detected at Fukushima nuclear reactors, Mainichi Daily News, August 2, 2011:

[...] TEPCO needs to rigorously check to see whether high radiation doses are spreading elsewhere [...]

Three plant workers [...] confirmed the radiation doses [detected near the surface of an exhaust pipe between the No. 1 and 2 reactors at levels exceeding the 10 Sievert per hour maximum of the measuring equipment] at about 2:30 p.m. on Aug. 1. [...]

In a related development, TEPCO said on Aug. 2 that there were two more pipes nearby that apparently showed radiation in excess of 10 sieverts. The utility said it had not actually measured the radiation there and it had no plans to do so because there would be no one working there. [...]

Published: August 2nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm ET
By
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55 comments

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  3. NYT: Fatal Radiation Level Found at Fukushima — “Exceeded” 10 sieverts per hour, measuring device was maxed out August 2, 2011
  4. Japan switches measurements: Reactor No. 1 drywell, not suppression chamber, now at 192 Sieverts per hour May 24, 2011
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55 comments to Paper: TEPCO needs to check if high radiation doses are “spreading elsewhere” — Two more spots appear to be above 10 sieverts per hour, but no plans to actually take measurements

  • More of the same. This is what they are admitting.
    Wonder what they are hiding. What will an evacuation of Tokyo look like?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo

    check it out, Tokyo and surrounding area (metro)
    = 35,676,000 people.


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    • “Tepco needs to check if…”…if Tepco ever releases the true info they have it will be a miracle. Until then, if any citizens are taking private readings from anywhere, feel free to post results here
      http://realitycheck.no-ip.info/nnn.html


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    • farawayfan farawayfan

      There will be no evacuation, your population quote is why. There is nothing they can do for the masses of people, so they avoid checking anything.


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      • Ariana

        Why not at least make an effort to save those people? I am fairly certain other countries would be willing to provide shelter/ resources.


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        • farawayfan farawayfan

          Just a question of numbers…you can evacuate some, but >30,000,000 people? I’m all for trying, but I just can’t see the logistics working out. Most people don’t realize how huge a number 1,000,000 is, much less 30 times that.


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          • farawayfan farawayfan

            For example, if you could successfully, non-stop evacuate 100,000 people/day it would take 300 days (nearly a year). How do you evacuate 100,000 people/day from an island, continuously, for a year?

            On D-day, with months of preparation and the entire US, Canada, and UK economies on a total war setting, we successfuly move 160,000 troops. Imagine 300 times that….


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          • Clocka

            During D-Day the ships had to carry tons of materiel also, in addition to soldiers!

            A better comparison is the last few days of Vietnam War just before Saigon fell.

            More than 200k people, very few of them Americans, fled Saigon in ‘anything which could float’.

            Tokyo had 20,000 people on 1600. Yes, it is too bad if Tokyo has to go. But Japan still has some areas with very sparse population, especially Kyushu, but if it has to be done it will be done.


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          • patb2009

            you evacuate people west, through Kyoto and to korea and china. Have them all stay in ordos.

            to evacuate 30 million people you need aabout 100,000 jet plane flights. assuming 300 people per aircraft.

            one flight per minute is easy.

            so that’s 1200 flights per day per airport.

            you could do it in 2 weeks. using narita, haneda, osaka and kyoto.


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          • Clocka

            Plus Chubu(Nagoya), Shizuoka, and the US airfields at Atsugi and Yokosuka as well.

            Japan doesn’t lack airports; in fact it has too many of them.


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      • Sickputer

        Yes…no evacuation, but if things progres as they have so far…there will be a Tokyo Flight.

        Millions will leave…maybe not tens of millions, but millions will leave.

        And if the dangers progress beyond Tokyo and high contamination encompasses the entire island….there will be a Japanese Boat Lift that will make the Cuban Mariel Boat Lift look like a Sunday afternoon ferry boat ride.

        Necessity is the mother of invention. People are twittering the latest news of Daiichi far more than in America. Just let this page sit for a few minutes and watch the Twitter feed on the righthand table: http://atmc.jp/fuku1/

        They are tuned in because their lives are in immediate jeopardy. Other countries except for nearby Korea and China are mainly spectators for this tragedy.


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        • Clocka

          There are at least 1 million Korean-Japanese in Japan (excluding those who intermarried with the Japanese); some of them completely forgot Korean.

          However, they will suddenly rediscover their Koreanness (and Chineseness, etc) when the push comes to shove.

          Japanese men have spread their seeds during the years around the Pacific War. Quite a few older Japanese men and their families will try to locate their seeds, supposedly abandoned on 1945, in the most unlikely of places in the next few months.


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      • WindorSolarPlease

        I don’t see a controlled total evacuation of all the people to another Country.

        What Country is safe? I believe South America area is safer “for now”

        What Country wants that many people coming in? Don’t know, they have a very large population. No one would want the US population either.

        How can they get that many people out? I don’t think they will be able to, how can they.

        If you can get out, get out of there Now, or move far away as you can. Remember that borders can always be closed.

        If you stay in a radiation area, there is a very good probability that you will be affected by it.

        JUST LEAVE THERE!!! I shouldn’t talk, I don’t believe it’s safe here either.


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      • Fall out man!

        After the 6 day war Israel was able to absorb Jews who had been kicked out of surrounding Muslim states. They doubled their population. So it can be done. Non-contaminated (or at least less contaminated) areas of Japan could absorb those people, no question. Tokyo could be moved if there was a will to do it. Remember early on there were rumors about a new capital for Japan being chosen other than Tokyo due to the radiation.

        They don’t need to be evacuated to a new country even, just pulled out of the worst parts. But for PR purposes, the Japanese government and its industry controllers will not even evacuate people from Fukushima itself.

        I think by now they have realized they can simply lie about the problem and get away with it. People will die, but for whatever reason the powers that be see that as in their best interests. Its evil, but that’s the situation.

        They could definitely move a city, and quickly, if there was a will to do it. Israel has proven that in recent history.


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    • Clocka

      To prepare for an ‘unlikely’ sinking of Japan, immortalized in the movie “Japan Sinks” during the 1970s (and remade in 2000s), Japanese tycoons have bought huge tracts of land in Africa and Brazil.

      Sure, many millions will die. But the ‘core’ of Japan will be able to evacuate.


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  • Cindy

    I’m waiting for TEPCO to say, UH , OH …

    They feign stupidity, and really are not actively checking anything … they need to do a complete survey to see where all this radiation is , where it has gone and to get a better picture of what’s happening …

    What are they waiting for ? this cannot be cooled down to a safe shutdown as they keep saying .There is nothing to shutdown…

    GRRRR !!!


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    • Toadmac

      Of coarse they are checking out these areas! They will only let you see what they want you to see and tell you as little as they can get away with as this is the best way to duck and weave! We all know that massive amounts of radionuclide’s are being emitted and TEPCO has lied right from the very first moment! So what’s a few missing zeros and diluted data sets between good friends? The plant will be back up and running once they find the corium and fix a couple of leaks.


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  • Ariana

    Okay, obviously the melted fuel is exposed to the air, but it has been for a while. What could have happened in. The last 48 hours to make the radiation level skyrocket? Possible melting through the concrete below the reactors? Re-criticality? I am talking out of my ass here, because I don’t know the answers…anyone care to enlighten me on the possibilities?


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    • farawayfan farawayfan

      Or…they just aren’t measuring much, and reporting even less. Probably had an info leak, so they trumped it by releasing the data themselves.

      This radioactive corium has been exposed to the elements for 4 months….infiltrating steadily into the water table and ocean while uncontrolled radioactive vapor release has been happening 24/7 for that time. Eventually, the radiation will dilute into the world enough that their equipment will be able to measure the traces left behind…….


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

        faraway:

        controlling the information themselves, it’s release-timing-depth, on purpose is all part of organization minimization and disinformation methods developed initially by the CIA. A primary motivation, by providing SOME real information, but too little, too late, too spread out is to demotivate through desensitization of the public, which works, very well in this age of multiple distractions, such as computers, cell phones, TV, vid games, etc. all keeping us, which works for the fucking despots in charge, well against the rest of OUR interests, through divide and conquer.


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

      Ariana:

      there are uncontrolled criticality events continuing to occur. The best that is being done is to maybe dampen these so that they rear up cyclically. Review, I apologize I don’t have time to find the links, the graphs showing prompt criticalities or “radiation spikes” inside R1. Fuel that has melted down and through and is still a significant enough mass to have criticality (nuclear chain reaction) will continue to worsen with each criticality event, which seems to be occurring in R1 every several days, worsening each time as more and more PLUTONIUM is produced by the decay of the Uranium dioxide and other radioactive elements in the melted blob/mass. Increasing the amount of PLUTONIUM (study how unstable this is) in the mass makes the mass incrementally more and more unstable andmore and more likely to enter accidental chain reaction (criticality). Plutonium, furthermore is also less stable in either AIR …or…WATER than Uranium dioxide (the originally loaded reactor fuel. The fact that the mass is a blob and not all parts of it can have neutrons inhibited by boron plates (which is what they use to control nuclear reactions/criticality when thefuel are in the rod assemblies, means that it cannot be stopped from becoming critical without breaking it up, perhaps. I’m not sure that anyone has figured out how to make such an accidental mass of melted down fuel withincreasingly high levels of Pu (PLUTONIUM), inert from such an uncontrolled setting as we have here. They certainly did NOT figure it out at Chernobyl. The mass there, more fortunately than at Fukushima, separated into various blobs. This prevented recriticality, or so it seemed at the time. However, there is evidence that the radioactive molten masses at Chernobyl are beginning to heat up again, unfortunately, as this leads to a problematic build-up, in a positive feedback loop sense, of Plutonium, which eventually leads to harder and harder to control accidental prompt criticality events.
      Please study Chernobyl to understand this process.


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    • theypoisonus

      Ariana, the only smile I have had today..

      talking out of your ass. priceless.

      I think we all at one time or another have felt that way.. too bad Tempco hasn’t the humility to do the same.

      This is uncharted waters, to many unknowns.

      This statement from above article :
      “The utility said it had not actually measured the radiation there and it had no plans to do so because there would be no one working there”

      this is between 1 and 2? and no people will be working there? did they give up on 1 and 2 or what? I understand at this point machinary does most of the ‘work’, but with who really knows how much the # is, people will still be too close for comfort? no ??


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  • odylan

    Ariana, my own personal theory is its to do with the recent strong earthquakes of the last fews days in the area – I think some pipes must have broken, but the fact is that nobody is going to tell us. Anyway nature may soon put everybody pout of their misery – there was shallow 6.2 quake 23:58 JST 01.08.2011 in the trench near Surugu-Wan due south from Mt Fuji. About 80kms from volcano peak. A few more like that that and Fuku could be history.


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  • James2

    It doesn’t really make sense to me. You can’t get a person close enough to 10 sieverts/hr to measure one spot – they are dead.

    I don’t know how they are measuring these spots. Maybe they still have some robots or something.

    There was a photo of a pretty large fissure in the ground a couple weeks ago near the Reactor 1 building.

    I saw somebody here had linked to an “insider” tweet where a fissure had opened up today and was pouring black smoke. The translation was talking about “magma” but I bet it was corium they were talking about.

    My bet is on the corium reaching groundwater.


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

      they used the very high crane seen in the cam with the view from the NE to SE to lower an instrument, which just happens to stop working, which is the usual, at from 2Sv/hr-10Sv/hr levels, which are off the charts high levels of radiation. No machinery or humans could survive close approaches to anywhere within 50 yards or, perhaps, more, than 50 yards of such levels of radiation, which for a human would result in instant unconsciousness and quick death within minutes to hours.


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    • Sickputer

      james:

      Assuming it is maybe only 10-20 Sieverts (since the geiger counter is broken it could be more, but maybe not 200 like they had months ago in the reactor vessel) then people who don’t linger too long can survive longer than you think. See this chart and the last Acute entry:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(radiation)


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

        Sick, I could be wrong, I have to review the data; but wasn’t that ~200 MILLI-sieverts/hr. a couple months ago. I feel like I’m remembering this wrong. I apologize, if I am.


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        • James2

          It’s not instant death from this much radiation, it’s an instant death dose, but it takes awhile. Instant death might be better than what you get.

          according to the chart, daghlian died from a 5 Sievert dose – but he got it in just a few seconds, and the next year Slotin got 10 Sieverts from the exact same 16kg sized chunk of Plutonium – again in just about a second

          I think Slotin lived 9 days with the agony setting in in 90 minutes. Daghlian lived nearly a month, but it was terrible for him. .


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  • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

    Did anyone see the crane moving debris from the 10Sv/hr. area between R1 and R2 yesterday? I wish this room had a chat.


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    • Sickputer

      I saw them running the crane’s camera/sensor, but not the grappler I have seen before.


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

        Sick I saw them lift a pipe up, somehow from between R1 and R2 sometime yesterday. Not sure to where the piece of pipe, or debris was moved, as it was out of frame or obscured.


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        • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

          @Pallas89juno..
          I saw them move the pipe you mentioned.. they it removed it from between 1 and 2..swung it over reactor one and then the view was obscured ..it looked as though they placed it on the other side ..and I do believe they are tossing debris into the sea….I dont see any transport shots..pics of cranes down near the waste treatment center, etc.
          Also I already mentioned ..watching them remove debris from directly in front of reactor 1 as our view provides.


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  • Cindy

    I read the NHK News link to this thismorning, apparently the pipe/ pipes involved were used initially to vent the reactor, but it didn’t work, so this high radiation is probably corium in the pipe. Tepco was suspicious of 3 other areas having high radiation like 10 Seiverts + , but they would not be checking as they don’t need workers in that area …

    The article also stated that human workers took the readings, and were safe because they were wearing radiation protective gear …


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

      No humans got that close to that level of radioactivity. There are no suits designed to withstand that level of radiation.


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      • theypoisonus

        That’s what I thought also. I put it in a post above in reply to another poster.

        I also said, have they given up on 1 and 2 or what’s the deal. even if it is large equip.. someone is there running it, and it is higher than what the meter can record, isn’t it?

        Shoot, this has really taken a bad turn for the worse that we have all been hoping would not happen, knowing deep inside they they don’t even know what they are doing as it is new territory.

        what a bloody mess. :(


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    • Fall out man!

      Hi Cindy,
      Their protective gear was a very long pole to hold the geiger sensor up to the radiation source from about 4 metres away. Ex-skf has a picture of a worker taking the measurement.
      http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/

      Of course, if their policy for quoting worker radiation exposure has not changed, you can multiply that figure for the workers exposure by 10. (at Chernobyl they divided worker exposure figures by 5)


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  • moonshellblue moonshellblue

    “The high-level radiation readings could be linked to venting of built-up steam carried out soon after the earthquake and tsunami hit the plant on March 11, Tepco officials said, but said further investigation was required.” Just wonder how many of you think this is from the corium hitting ground or if you do think it is from left over steam.


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno@yahoo.com

      Moon,

      I think due to nuclear explosion at R1 and nuclear explosion of R3, most likely the R3 SFP with distributed debris everywhere.


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        Yes I think some of it is debris but yet they continue to find increased levels inside thus recriticlity? I don’t know but from what I’ve read about corium it is very difficult to control and I’m not even sure they know where or how much is seeping out. I’m just concerned the blob has hit ground but I guess at this juncture…. Thanks for your input.


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        • Cindy

          I do realize that their ‘protective gear’ won’t protect them…

          It’s just what the media has said to make us feel like they are taking precautions …


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  • NHK news “Workers were safe because they were wearing radiation protective gear …”

    Not even a space suit could protect you from that level of radiation. Chat and watch the Fukushima Daiichi Plant – LIVE Cam at http://www.RadioactiveChat.Blogspot.com


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  • milk and cheese milk and cheese

    Don’t forget that the radiation is in the plankton that makes most of our oxygen. It will spread throughout the oceans. That really is the end of the story as far as I am concerned.


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    • Darth

      M&C,

      Do you have links for this? Or is it a hunch?


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      • mikey

        Darth he is correct that 1/2 of the entire worlds oxygen comes from phytoplankton in the sea. This is according to National Geographic. The entire food chain of all the oceanic creatures rests on this so…. It is certainly possible that if the plankton dies in large enough quantities due to a massive influx of radiation- We will in the main ALL DIE– Good call milk n cheese


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      • VanneV anne

        Source of Half Earth’s Oxygen Gets Little Credit
        http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0607_040607_phytoplankton.html
        “Marine biogeochemical processes both respond to and influence climate,” Frouin said. “A change in phytoplankton abundance and species may result from changes in the physical processes controlling the supply of nutrients and sunlight availability.”
        Oxygen Supply
        Phytoplankton need two things for photosynthesis and thus their survival: energy from the sun and nutrients from the water. Phytoplankton absorb both across their cell walls.
        In the process of photosynthesis, phytoplankton release oxygen into the water. Half of the world’s oxygen is produced via phytoplankton photosynthesis. The other half is produced via photosynthesis on land by trees, shrubs, grasses, and other plants.


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  • Look we have had reports of battle hardened robots malfunctioning (Honeywell thing), can’t get readings for #3 reactor building too radio-active (don’t even have a plan to implement), 3 reactors melted down back in March but we’ll tell you in July, excessive radio-active iodine in ocean (sign that fission is taking place), problems with Areva water de-contaminating system and on and on.

    Latest scoop “10 sieverts per hour” should read “over ten, we don’t know how much our equipment maxed out at ten”.

    They don’t even have equipment to measure this level of radiation so that tells me they are unprepared for whatever is going on at Fukushima.
    We know Tepco and Japanese Government are Bull$hit artists so what aren’t they telling us?
    No equipment save a lead lined tank will protect a worker from that level of radiation and no robot or electronics can function either. So what is the plan?

    Looks to me they are just pouring water onto blobs of fissioning nuclear crap trying to slow down the inevitable day when there is just too much radiation to do anything and site will be abandoned.

    In case your not sure let me tell you straight. Its worse then what they are saying.

    Many more models of this Fuku reactor type in USA. Oh Bomb Ah gets funding from nuclear energy players. Ticking time-bomb in USA.

    Situation can be worse for us North Americans.

    God Bless


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  • Sickputer

    A nice little clip from CNN Tokyo showing the worker with the long pole.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_rl0c06ylI


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  • StPaulScout StPaulScout

    The only people in Tokyo that will be ‘saved’ are the ones that have the financial resources to ‘save’ themselves.


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  • moonkai

    10 Sieverts ? … a walk in the park …try 356 Siverts now !


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  • maaa

    Does the amount of radiation increase with the mass of the nuclear fuel? Since fukushima have more fuel than chernobyl, I think i’ll be expecting to see at least 1000sv.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Yes… the amount of nuclear fuel ..the mix up.. and the state the fuel is in.


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  • StillJill StillJill

    The ‘gift’ that keeps on giving,….takes on an even deeper meaning.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Nice view of the various plumes…see between 1 and 2…lots of glowing and flashing from the spent fuel pools. http://www.youtube.com/user/nuckelchenblogde#p/u/1/SkGlJsKW-Pc


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