First layer for cover at Fukushima Unit 4 (PHOTO)

Published: January 15th, 2013 at 11:18 am ET
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Title: Steel Framing Construction for the Cover to be Installed for Fuel Removal at Unit 4 at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station: Completion of the First Layer of Steel Framing
Source: Tokyo Electric Power Company
Date: January 15, 2013

Published: January 15th, 2013 at 11:18 am ET
By
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284 comments

Related Posts

  1. Cover for Fukushima Spent Fuel Pool No. 4 — Tepco starts installing giant steel frame (PHOTOS) January 8, 2013
  2. Tepco: New 60-ton cover on top of Unit No. 4 fuel pool installed (PHOTOS) June 15, 2012
  3. Tepco releases badly altered image of Fukushima Unit 4 (PHOTO) September 1, 2012
  4. NHK: Fuel removal process underway at Unit 4 (VIDEOS) July 18, 2012
  5. Tepco requests media not film Unit 4 operation — Checking if fuel was affected by UNIT 3 explosion — 2nd assembly to be removed Thursday (PHOTO) July 18, 2012

284 comments to First layer for cover at Fukushima Unit 4 (PHOTO)

  • PavewayIII PavewayIII

    Well, good for the TEPCO Yakuza. Actually, good for humans – screw TEPCO.

    I'm comforted by the knowledge that if an average non-corporate criminal was spewing similar amounts of radiation through the jetstream and over the U.S., then they would be considered a terrorist and the directors would be subject to state-sponsored torture by the U.S. and/or would be the subject of an Obama presidential order for their execution.

    Foreign nuke licensees? Well, TEPCO and the Japanese regulators had an unfortunate and unforeseeable accident, so continuous release is OK (as long as you hide it with a tent). If China had the exact same thing happen there and the same amount of jetstream-borne radiation was washed out over the U.S., we would already be at was.


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  • PavewayIII PavewayIII

    Heh… I meant 'war', but being 'was' probably applies too.


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  • Anthony Anthony

    I thought the ground was uneven and shifting there….


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  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    My guess is that the settling and shifting in the ground comes in great part because of corium from Unit3 eating away the sandstone under Unit3, and will mostly affect the side of Unit4 opposite the construction, the side facing Unit3, Anthony. They are using steel, rather than reinforced concrete. The steel will go up more quickly, and will tolerate ground shifting and earthquakes better than concrete.

    SFP4 was dewatered, when the earthquake of 3/11/2011 caused a serious leak in an auxiliary pump. In the chaos, this problem was left unresolved for several days. Spent fuel assemblies, when exposed to air or steaming water vapor, will experience rapid heating and criticalities, resulting in vaporization of the zirconium cladding and cesium from the fuel pellets. On its own, zirconium is very combustible at high temperatures, and is even used in pyrotechnics. Zirconium burns well, even under water, and water cannot put a zirconium fire out. (Making it a great material to use as cladding for uranium fuel pellets, if you are a nuclear engineer). A mixture of cesium and zirconium is highly explosive. Unit4 blew up, and the spent fuel assemblies were left to burn for some days, until the leak was fixed, and seawater was pumped into the SFP. Of course, the seawater corroded the zirconium fuel cladding. The result is that many of the 1,331 spent fuel assemblies in SFP4 are very likely damaged, and will not hold together during the removal process.


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  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    A review of what we know about SFP4 may be in order. (All events well covered on ENEnews. Originally published on 5/25/2012):
    "1. The hot fuel load had been removed from Reactor4 in November, 2010, when Fuku4 was taken down for service.
    2. SFP4 became over-heated with the addition of the hot fuel load from the reactor.
    3. An auxiliary pump was placed below SFP4 to increase water circulation to cool SFP4.
    4. After the 311 EQ, this pump sprang a leak, draining SFP4 of water.
    5. Building4 was blown up during the night of 3/15/2011.
    6. Zirconium fires continued off and on for some days.
    7. High radiation readings at the main gate subsided after seawater refilled SFP4.
    8. TEPCO lowered robot into SFP4 to take videos.
    9. TEPCO lowered video camera into Rector4. My suspicion is that they wanted to see if Reactor4 could be loaded with control rods and the hot fuel load, in order to secure the hot fuel load in event of a dewatering or collapse of SFP4. Reactor4 is probably too damaged for this to work, and the effort appears to have been abandoned.
    10. TEPCO announced a plan to build a steel and concrete frame around the building to support the building. A crane for removing fuel assemblies from SFP4 to Common SFP would be installed on the frame.
    11. It is widely thought that a significant EQ might collapse or dewater SFP4, causing an ELE that would wipe out the human and animal population on Earth."


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    • Sirius

      Hi Philip, my question is: If the SFP4 was dewatered for several days, wouldn't everything have melted together? The fuel assemblies, Cladding, fuel pellets, etc… ?

      What then could be recovered?


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      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        Videos of SFP4 show fuel racks intact, and fuel assembly handles in place, so everything didn't melt down. Some of us here imagine that there could be melted fuel on the floor of the SFP. More damaged assemblies could drop pellets when handled.


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        • PattieB PattieB

          it didn't lose all the water… just down to bottom of the gate to load the reactor. But that was enough for the Plutonium rods to overheat and start burn… that's the glowing blob we all saw in TBS cam. The few rods that were loaded in the reactor core burned. (Fire #1) then the new delivered rods that were in the elevator… (Cask pool) they were source of the second fire @ #4. The hinkied the gate to the reactor closed again, and refilled the pool… preventing a total pool fire from starting.


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          • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

            PattieB: Reactor was empty of fuel assemblies on 3/11/2011, following maintenance outage commencing November, 2010. Can you please provide source of your information that fuel assemblies in Reactor Core caused fire #1?

            New Fuel Assemblies are cool, even touchable. Not hot, and not combustible, even in 100% air. First I've heard anyone mention "plutonium rods." What is your source for the cause of fire #2? My information is that control rods were double stacked in SFP4, and that new rods are those seen in videos tightly spaced in a separate rack in SFP4. What is your source of info on plutonium fuel assemblies? Reactor4 did not have a license to run Mox or Plutonium Fuel. What was going on, in your opinion?

            All new information to me. Your input is much appreciated, Pattie! Keep it coming. Hope you see and answer this post.


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            • PattieB PattieB

              I've posted a cam capture on my FB… shows the reactor being loaded when the quake hit. Sorry about the bad news.

              but this is what will happen eventualy…

              http://www.economic-undertow.com/2011/11/07/non-battle-of-fukushima/


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            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              Philip – I posted some time ago that the self-serving PR stunt of removing a rather pristine assembly from SPF#4 didn't line up with the known geometry of that pool. You can go by the floor structures, the remaining concrete pillars and location of the previously removed RPV cap to see that they're actually pulling this from the edge of the reactor pool, not the SPF. This was on a TEPCO picture showing the crane gantry and some sort of platform they constructed on top of the building.

              One would assume that's a new fuel assembly, not an irradiated one. They didn't seem terribly worried about radiation when they initially pulled it and removed the individual fuel rods for inspection later on.


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      • guezilla

        A perverse paradox of irradiated nuclear fuel storage is that it's thought spent fuel stored with less than a quarter of it covered in water would start to burn and melt even the steel frames supporting them up to 100 years after discharge from reactor.

        If the water is completely gone, however, with the bottom ends of the assemblies exposed, and there is no debris blocking air convection, hot air will start rising through them, keeping them from reaching burning point (900C) around a year after discharge. You might not, however, want to count on that lasting for the 100 years it'll take to cool enough to no longer require cooling. And see above on what'll happen if water is added.

        Another problem is a exposed spent fuel will emit over 100 sieverts worth of radiation per hour to those in direct line of sight. Needless to say, this is not survivable even for a moment. Thick concrete would offer some shielding, but the radiation levels on ground would still be prohibitive.
        (For details see http://www.princeton.edu/sgs/publications/sgs/pdf/11_1Alvarez.pdf for example)

        Given what we've been shown, I do not think the irrdiated fuel was exposed below 1/4th. Given the available evidence it's also hard to say that they would at any point have been completely waterless as working on top of the unit would be impossible and adding water would lead to another catastrophe.


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  • razzz razzz

    A foundation has to be put in place to support the structure, either first dig or drill holes to place rebar and concrete in or drive pilings to bedrock or until the friction of the surrounding soil will keep the pilings in place. Then you begin building the structure on that supporting foundation. I think they drove pilings but don't remember for sure.

    With the load being cantilevered (overhanging) to hoist massive casks containing fuel assemblies out of Unit 2's SFP, hopefully they engineer the design correctly.

    The fuel and cask handling machine to be used inside this new structure didn't exist yet when they started this new building, still had to be designed and manufactured.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    As I've said before… no matter what they build? Until they clean the burnt-out remains of the rods in #4's cask pool? They will not be moving any actual fuel rods of of that pool… I don't care what they claim, or show on video! What they did already was a good fake-out! It was a training rod. They don't let newbies play with active rods… so have a few in the pool for training purposes.


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  • razzz razzz

    If SFP 4 didn't run dry it certainly ran low on water. Steam will keep the fuel assemblies cool somewhat. So, the upper half of the assemblies could be exposed while the lower half still sits in water. Pics and vids of SFP 4's fuel still show most assemblies in place so you can't say the fuel pool burnt up. They did start spraying it with saltwater to try and save it until they got freshwater lines hooked up and eventually that concrete boom pump truck arrived to top off the pool.

    There is no solid rock like granite that the units were built on. It is all compressed seafloor, that might be really compacted over the eons and maybe even impenetrable as far as water goes but it is not bedrock.

    Bedrock or compressed seafloor or not, when the entire island coastline sinks 1 meter or 3 meters, everything sinks. While the earth was shaking nonstop for a couple minutes, it was moving part of the island east 8 feet (laterally) and sinking at the same time.

    "…The earthquake moved Honshu (the main island of Japan) 2.4 m (8 ft) east and shifted the Earth on its axis by estimates of between 10 cm (4 in) and 25 cm (10 in).[18][19][20]…"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_T%C5%8Dhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami


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  • PattieB PattieB

    You need to understand… the channel to load the reactor core is ABOVE the tops of the rods by a good margin. However, leaving that small amount of water in the pool… allows the water to boil. That makes bubbles, and so the Plutonium rods (They are much hotter than reg rods) started to cook-off, even though were still in water. The tops of the rods never went without water, but that's not enough to prevent damage. Neeed LOTS of water to keep cool, and even more to stop the worst of radiations escaping.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Uh… yeah?… like, posted photos over on FB. Fact the photos are to point-out the Plutonium breeder type rods that are sitting in pool of #4. I can guarantee!… if 4 pool goes dry? EVERYONE is going to KNOW! It will be a regular FIREWORKS type of show!


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    • norbu norbu

      PB, I respect your knowledge, how can you guarantee that " EVERYONE is going to KNOW!" as you said. People in some parts of the world don't even know about this disaster. I am happy that you are sharing all this info with us, Thank you. You remind me of Tacomagrove.
      N


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      • PattieB PattieB

        If #4 EVER was to go dry…? The entire fukushima site will become a hole in the ground that will quickly fill with sea water! It would even take the TBS cam out in the resultant BLAST! There are 40 breeder rods of raw plutonium sitting in the center of that pool! I'm not talking MOX, either! There are distance limits on propagation of criticality. So, like the pool of 3, they won't all add to the bang… but they will add to the (DIRT) contamination that goes skywards. The breeder rods will be a lot bigger bang than what happened in #3 pool.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    The shared pool went low and exposed the rod-tops… lit the entire building up like the element in a lightbulb! The travel cask burn-out in the basement of the shared pool… caused the black smoke back last week… and, may have been the cause of damage to the shared pool, but that's speculation. It happens that a followed b, but without new cam-view inside? One can only make edjumacated guesses. As there are a few who post here, that don't think I'm very bright (16 years old) and, I'm more upset on how that comment is an insult to my children… as one is that age, than I am re: myself. I'm long past the need to prove anything at all.


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    • Johnny Blade

      @PattieB; I respect your take on things and I'm glad you described what is likely happening based on the substandard imagery and sparse amount of "accurate","official" data & status reports we've learned to suspect as being inaccurate,underestimated or just flat-out lies! If I ever offended you by asking questions or pointing out previous visual anomalies you can assume I'm only clinging to the hope that I still have reason to refuse to accept defeat. My children are 21 and 26 now and "mostly" exceptionally smart although their I.Q.'s don't include "common-sense" since I'd always assumed they'd listen to "Pops" if/when TSHTF and sadly that didn't happen since they have been too slow to pick up on the severity of the crisis they've been lucky to have someone who loves them & wants only to see them live & thrive who has kept hammering away trying to teach them something important so they can change the path of THEIR future instead of just watching past generations mistakes catch up to them too!(?)At least they have had me "de-programming" them to some degree via my "updating" them about the things they don't want to hear about but hear from me anyway! I share your thoughts regarding HAVING to resort to guesswork because TEPCO won't provide images THEY certainly COULD provide,but won't! If they did feel compelled to share the things they feel warrant their optimism maybe it would contradict all of us who have good(BAD) reason to doubt them??!!Thanks…


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  • ForwardAssist ForwardAssist

    The primary function of this structure is to provide a mounting location for a rail mounted bridge crane of the type used for refueling and handling fuel bundles. The fact that it will be covered is secondary to the design.


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    • Johnny Blade

      I take it then that the cover is NOT an additional measure designed or even capable of shielding or containing any radiation from escaping during the process? So it is as PattieB suggested that it was to keep our prying eyes from viewing the scary operation that will commence soon and would likely cause heart failure and/or great criticism of yet another bungled TEPCO fiasco? When does the "Main Event" commence by the way? I've been nervous as hell about this event since before even the 1st anniversary of the 3/11 mega-disaster & slo-mo ELE when Arnie and some of the other highly-esteemed,unpaid & not for sale nuke experts stated that the "operation would be so fragile & hazardous that one mis-step could or would be "The End" of EVERYTHING"….I had hoped there was something good in this piece of news though,but it seems those who better know what TEPCO's up to don't feel they have much of a chance to succeed(?)..do they?…. :| ~**


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      • norbu norbu

        Johnny Blade, The cover is a stall tactic. I have been on this since 3-13-2011. It seems like they, TEPCO, or anyone else in power wants to stop this ELE, Take a look at these people's goals #9 is a key one. http://www.illuminati-symbols.com/21-goals-of-the-illuminati.html
        N


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      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        The tall stacks at Fuku have filters that can remove at least some of the radionuclides from gasses expelled from reactors at Fuku. My guess is that gasses trapped by the cover will be drawn into the stack plumbing, filtered, and then ejected from the stack. This cover, of course, will do nothing to mitigate gamma radiation during fuel removal. But the cover performs a real task, IMO and is not an attempt to block fuel removal problems from public view.


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        • PavewayIII PavewayIII

          Filtration of air from the reactor buildings took place in a building sort of behind #3 and #4. All the windows blew out and the venting filtration system has to be shot. The stacks are for either the filtered air or emergency (unfiltered) venting. The #3/4 stack has to be pretty contaminated. Can't imagine them going through the trouble of using it again.

          They (supposedly) set up some kind of circus-tent exhaust filter for #1. The circus probably has another one laying around that they'll sell TEPCO.


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      • Johnny Blade

        Thanks norbu & PhillipUpNorth! :)


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  • PattieB PattieB

    they don't want anyone to see the state of the rods they pull… and with the entire tops of the plutonium rods missing now… they are going to need to be creative to find a way to lift them out of the racks. The urainium rods… still look mostly OK. So… take all those out first? Then the racks they were in… so they can lay the plutonium rack down, and push them from the bottom… maybe?


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  • razzz razzz

    http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1337588752P.pdf

    Of course I can't find the reference to the foundation preparation. Found TEPCO just saying that they will prepare the soil or improve soil conditions for the foundation.

    The covering of the frame will help trap any radioactive venting from the pool and fuel as noted in the .pdf above.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it. It's also connected to the radioactive crap-processing building just south of it/ and so that frame is sitting on deeper concrete tunnel-works on that side.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    one of the multi-paged reports showed them all being connected underground. This was multiply-spreading the contaminated water, and makes the issue of recycled water use for cooling nearly imposible. Debris is likely to be able to damage/clog any pump placed down there.


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    • norbu norbu

      Ok, what report, with photos or blueprints?
      N


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      • NoNukes NoNukes

        NY Times, 4/3/2011: Earlier Sunday, Tokyo Electric said that two workers at the Fukushima Daiichi plant who were missing since the day of the earthquake and tsunami had been confirmed dead. Five employees of subsidiary companies have died at other Tokyo Electric facilities.

        Tokyo Electric said the two workers at Fukushima Daiichi were found in the basement of the turbine building connected to the No. 4 reactor. The company found the bodies on Wednesday but did not release the details until the families had been notified.

        The company said that the workers, Kazuhiro Kokubo, 24, and Yoshiki Terashima, 21, died on March 11, around 4 p.m., after the tsunami hit the plant.

        “It pains me that these two young workers were trying to protect the power plant,” Tokyo Electric’s chairman, Tsunehisa Katsumata, said in a statement.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/04/world/asia/04japan.html?_r=0


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  • PattieB PattieB

    It was the as-built blue's with elevations. I'll have to fig. the date out. It was back when they set-out to install the water circ-filter rigs.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    http://www.meti.go.jp/press/2011/04/20110410001/20110410001-4.pdf
    some info…
    http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/fukushima.html

    they are called elephants, oddly enough… this shows all conections.
    http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/fuku_plant_radmap.jpg

    they wiped the plans off that site… I'll need to go to backup resources to get you link.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    here's one report… with what flooded and didn't. Note: the lowest connection path is lower than basment of shared pool, as that DID NOT flood.

    http://cryptome.org/2012/10/daiichi-12-0620.pdf


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Here's the site construction & tunnel spec that the new frame sits on top of.

    http://cryptome.org/0004/daiichi-build-01.pdf


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  • PattieB PattieB

    They…? Hard to say… Tepco is the folks who SEEM to be in charge there. But, yakuza from what I understand is running the operations there. They have no consept of what's going to happen eventualy, or they would change their game plans!

    http://www.economic-undertow.com/2011/11/07/non-battle-of-fukushima/


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  • aigeezer aigeezer

    PattieB said: "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it." at 9:46 pm, which prompted norbu to ask for reference links. PattieB provided a flurry of links between then and 6:36 am, none of which appears to provide evidence of a lab under building 4.

    Please clarify – which of those links do you believe provides evidence of a lab under building 4? Alternatively, feel free to provide other evidence of a lab under building 4.

    References to concrete trucks nicknamed "elephants" tend to muddy the waters, so please focus on the one issue – confirming the allegation that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it."

    Thanks


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    • PattieB PattieB

      the point was… they show parked "elephants" over the connections they don't wish folks to make in that diagram. They are placed over the undergound structures!


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      • aigeezer aigeezer

        Fair enough. Perhaps you should have mentioned that at the time. Remember, you are the one revealing all this insider knowledge.

        Ummm… how, exactly do you know that "they show parked "elephants" over the connections they don't wish folks to make in that diagram. They are placed over the undergound structures!"

        Just for clarification – is this your opinion (no problem if so) or, if it's something you know, what evidence do you have that it is true?


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  • PattieB PattieB

    The 500 and some odd damned report has the frriging PICTURE OF SAID LAB IN IT! aigeezer ! READ IT!

    Also in the other link is the entire build spec on the tunnels connecting the buildings!

    WHAT ! IS ! YOUR ! PROBLEM!?!?


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    • PattieB PattieB

      As far as I'm concerned… aigeezer… I don't spoon feed, so, until you ask a rational question, I'll not bother to reply to your comments.


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      • aigeezer aigeezer

        My questions will always be rational, PattieB… relentlessly rational. However, I'm not asking a question here, rather I'm requesting that you provide specific evidence for one of your assertions.

        Elsewhere you say: "I have never EVER made a stament of what I did not back up!…If I'm Guessing…? I SAY SO."

        http://enenews.com/forum-fukushima-webcam-discussion-thread-june-30-2012-present/comment-page-30#comment-323694

        … but you make a great many "staments" that you do not back up, and I am trying to follow up on one of them, namely this one: "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it", from earlier in this thread.

        http://enenews.com/photo-first-layer-of-cover-for-fukushima-unit-4/comment-page-1#comment-323580

        So far, you are offering as evidence a link to a 500-page pdf which you say contains a photo to confirm your claim that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it" – yet you won't yet say where in that document the photo is to be found.

        The onus is on you to support your claims, not on your readers to pore through a 500 page document looking for a photograph that only you know about. If it's there, please point us to it – a page number would suffice, in the spirit of your position that "I have never EVER made a stament of what I did not back up!"

        You have a chance to increase your credibility by providing a page number – seems easy enough.


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    • aigeezer aigeezer

      PattieB, the burden of proof is on you – you are the one making the previously unknown assertion.

      Which page of the report are you suggesting supports your assertion that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it"?

      Yes, the other link appears to be the build spec of connecting tunnels, but what does that have to do with "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it"? There is no reference to a lab that I can see?

      My problem is that I cannot yet find evidence to support your assertion that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it." There is no need to shout.


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      • PattieB PattieB

        In this… MY HOME US of A! One is not GUILTY until proven innocent!

        You ASK for what info I have to support my aligations. Fine. But I have other things in-process. I will post and link as time permits. This is old data that was not stored, as they had yet to start making it all vanish at the time… they do such with speed and alacrity now! I'm not in the best of health now, so please stop playing the spoilt child.


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        • aigeezer aigeezer

          PattieB, I have no idea why you are posturing about guilt and innocence.

          I am requesting that you provide the page number of a picture that you tell us you know about, or in your words "The 500 and some odd damned report has the frriging PICTURE OF SAID LAB IN IT! aigeezer ! READ IT!".

          Which page, please? Remember, you are claiming that you already know where it is so it shouldn't be hard to find.

          You have also assured us that you have evidence to support all your allegations. I'm just asking for one of them, based on your assurance that you routinely make them available, or in your words:

          "I have never EVER made a stament of what I did not back up! An I'm not talking links to news papers etc:
          Hard Documentary, FACTS!

          If I'm Guessing…? I SAY SO.."

          — end of quotation —

          Thanks in advance for the page number of the photo that is evidence for your assertion that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it". After this long delay, I'm really looking forward to seeing it.


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          • Anthony Anthony

            As time marches on with this discussion you are in, I think the link or proof OR just admitting guessing becomes rather critical to make the point. There is a rhythm this conversation should have, that in this post, to me, appears to not have. It is subtle and important.


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            • aigeezer aigeezer

              Absolutely, Anthony. PattieB either brings us a goldmine of new insider information, of which this arbitrary example would be a potentially very important nugget, or… she brings us a mass of untestable opinion, noise and distraction.

              It is hugely important that we find out what we are dealing with. Her style is alarming in the extreme (in my opinion), but she may still be bringing important information. We must figure out what she offers us in addition to her intense energy level.

              Trust, but verify. Sorry, PattieB – that's just how it is. If you want trust you must earn it – not through a huge volume of untestable allegations, but by providing evidence for your claims – the very thing you say you always do, but have not yet done in this instance.

              I am emphatically NOT enjoying this sordid process.


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              • aigeezer aigeezer

                To anyone following the "evidence of a lab under unit 4" issue – the thread became painfully long and muddled. I need to call closure on my part of it, namely my request that PattieB provide evidence of her allegation.

                That evidence never came, as far as I can tell, and the hours have turned into days. There have been massive diversions and distractions.

                If you do try to follow the thread, pay close attention to time stamps, and to the actual sequence of events – it is what it is.

                I know how unpleasant it is to watch people squabble on the Net. I kept this one alive because the issue at stake was potentially history-making. It might have literally toppled the nuke industry. But nothing did come of it – and it now looks like just one more tacky forum squabble.

                I have no appetite for that kind of squabble or that kind of forum. These things come in phases. Sometimes this forum is a powerful crowd-source investigative tool. At other times, it's just another fringe conspiracy discussion site.

                I'll withdraw from here until the PattieB era plays itself out.

                Hehe – NoNukes, I should probably have told you that I used to teach courses in formal logic and critical thinking. I'll chuckle at your straw man primer embedded in your straw man diversion for a long time. Woot!

                My parting benediction (or malediction) to all is "may we all reap what we sow". Thanks for reading.

                aigeezer out.


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  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    What, exactly, is in this photo of SFP4, fuel assemblies with a new type handle on top, in the separate rack, packed tightly together? Just to the right of center. PattieB, aigeezer?

    http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2012/04/12/while-number-of-earthquakes-increase-fukushima-nuclear-reactor-no-4-raises-new-global-worries/

    My take is that this is the load of new fuel for Reactor4. Now, PattieB, can you please provide a link which tells more about the use of plutonium fuel in Reactor 4? And can you please post a link for the photo of Reactor 4 loading? I can't seem to find your FB page. Many thanks!

    (Come on, you guys. The process of learning all we can about the Fuku Calamity takes some time, and the patient sharing of "proof" to sustain our opinions, when asked. Pattie, I'm like you, in that I most often use propositions, that have been well covered on ENEnews in the past, as if they are statements of fact. Don't take it personally if someone asks you to provide a link or two. You seem to be well alead of what most of us here know to be true. Please be a little patient with us as we try to catch up, OK?)


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    • aigeezer aigeezer

      Hi PhilipUpNorth. I have no opinion on your link – just don't know enough about the details.

      I normally share your position "I most often use propositions, that have been well covered on ENEnews in the past, as if they are statements of fact" – issues such as Yakuza involvement, multiple meltdowns, and the like tend to be accepted as "givens" by most of us now.

      My particular issue with PattieB this time around was her new (I believe) assertion that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it". As far as I know, that has never been discussed here and is not one of the generally accepted propositions.

      I still hope she will provide some specific evidence for the assertion or else retract it.


      Report comment

      • Anthony Anthony

        I remember from the beginning *rumors* that there is a hidden clandestine weapons factory there. No link but I do recall that from the start.


        Report comment

        • Anthony Anthony

          **Yellow-Cake Factory 608

          Fukushima Province has a history of involvement in atomic weapons development, according to a New York Times article by Martin Fackler titled "Fukushima's Long Link to a Dark Nuclear Past" (Sept. 6). Following the lead of Japanese news reports, the correspondent visited the town of Ishikawa, less than an hour's drive south of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant. There he interviewed Kiwamu Ariga who as a student during the war was forced to mine uranium ore from a local foothill to supply the military-run Factory 608, which refined the ore into yellow-cake.

          "Then one day, Mr. Ariga recalled, an officer finally explained what they were after: 'With the stones that you boys are digging up, we can make a bomb the size of a matchbox that will destroy all of New York.'"**

          http://rense.com/general94/proof.htm


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          • VanneV anne

            A quotation from this article:
            “…The final step of warhead testing was likely given a wink and nod from the Bush administration, which favored a militaristic regime in Tokyo. In early 2011, an unannounced underground nuclear test was conducted in northwest Japan, according to sources in Japanese intelligence. A slight atmospheric shock wave was picked up by GPS monitors in South Korea and China, and blogs later speculated that a nuclear blast had caused the Tohoku earthquake. Though implausible since these test devices are miniscule compared with the Soviet blockbusters that triggered quakes in Iran and Turkey, northeast Japan is a geophysical zone with extraordinary seismic sensitivity. An international investigation is urgently needed, and if a causal relationship can be established, the bomb planners should be indicted for mass murder….”
            http://rense.com/general94/proof.htm


            Report comment

        • aigeezer aigeezer

          PattieB, Anthony and NoNukes, that would make it even more important for PattieB (or someone) to provide us with evidence of her allegation that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it", if possible.

          So far PattieB tells us the evidence is a photo in a 500-page document, but she won't yet say where in the document the photo is to be found.

          For those of you who think the photo exists, by all means provide us with the page number so we can all see it. This matter is easily resolvable without reference to rumors, unconfirmable memories of alleged discussions or other digressions.

          To summarize, the assertion from PattieB is "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it." (time stamp 9:46 in this thread). That led to a request for supporting evidence from norbu, which led in turn to PattieB eventually offering this as supporting evidence: "The 500 and some odd damned report has the frriging PICTURE OF SAID LAB IN IT!…." Requests that she provide a page number for the picture have not yet been answered (with a page number).

          So that's where we seem to be on this particular issue. An interesting claim, no definitive evidence yet, and lots of peripheral noise.

          I say again, this is easily resolvable if someone will provide a page number to the alleged picture that supports the existence of a lab under unit #4. We could then move on to interpreting the picture.


          Report comment

          • NoNukes NoNukes

            I don't believe the existence of the lab will be proven true or false by the photo that I remember seeing, so I see no point in spending a work day searching for it for you, aigeezer. I understood that PattieB was bringing it up to indicate how unstable r4 was yet the instability of r4 is an established fact as much as anything at Fukushima, so I don't see the point. We have all read and seen so much in the past almost two years, I have no doubt that Tepco could have been up to more than they say they were.


            Report comment

            • aigeezer aigeezer

              NoNukes, the issue I've been pursuing is a search for evidence to support PattieB's assertion "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it." The issue is not why PattieB made that assertion or why Tepco does what Tepco does – motivations are unknowable.

              PattieB implied that her so-far-unidentified picture would suffice as evidence but she has so far declined to tell us its location in a 500-page pdf.

              You tell us that you remember a photo but you don't believe it is worth searching for and "I don't believe the existence of the lab will be proven true or false by the photo that I remember seeing". That is no help one way or another.

              Anthony tells us he remembers a rumor.

              So… Thin gruel. That leaves us with a bold assertion from PattieB, but no evidence so far, yet according to PattieB the evidence is near at hand, right under our noses – somewhere in a 500 page pdf but she won't tell us where to look and she won't engage further on the subject. That's not a good way to build credibility, I suggest.

              Reminder: The claim is "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it" and I am seeking evidence to support the claim. Just a page number of the alleged picture from PattieB's linked 500-page document would be a good starting point.

              Got evidence? Anybody?… No more diversions, please. The challenge is straightforward.


              Report comment

              • norbu norbu

                Aigeezer, I looked through hundreds of photo's, I found a few interesting enough to pick out, I am not sure though. You guys take a look.
                http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2PENazcbZMk/0.jpg
                https://s10-us2.ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=lab+reactor+4+at+fukushima+daiichi&h=480&w=640&t
                All reactor 4 building. Just trying to help.
                N


                Report comment

                • aigeezer aigeezer

                  Thanks, norbu.

                  The second link times out for me. My browser says the (proxy) server is in the Netherlands, but that's all I see so far. Anyone else getting it to work?

                  The first linked image does not look at all like a lab to me. I'll keep trying the second link.

                  Are you thinking one or more of your photos shows PattieB's lab or are you addressing a different issue? Are these photos from PattieB's 500 page pdf or from some other source?

                  Sorry for the questions after you've gone to that trouble – my goal is to find evidence if possible supporting PattieB's assertion "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it" and I need to make sure we are not going off in some other direction yet.


                  Report comment

              • NoNukes NoNukes

                aigeezer,

                About the weapons lab, you claimed that:

                "As far as I know, that has never been discussed here"

                Anthony, Anne and I all remember differently, and when you look, there are many discussions, for example:

                Sickputer
                September 9, 2011 at 10:17 pm
                Yoichi Shimatsu presents if true a Fuku bombshell account that will rock the foundation of Japanese government:

                http://www.rense.com/general94/proof.htm

                Report Comment

                arclight
                September 9, 2011 at 10:33 pm
                nice qoute from your link

                “What about the findings of lower ratios in samples gather earlier? The recent higher readings were probably based on either late releases from a fire-destroyed

                http://enenews.com/discussion-thread-september-6-12-2011/comment-page-2


                Report comment

                • NoNukes NoNukes

                  The most interesting enenews discussion about the weapons lab I have come across so far was the one with YOU in it, so much for your claim that: "As far as I know, that has never been discussed here"

                  Mack
                  September 22, 2012 at 2:17 pm · Reply
                  In his latest interview, Yoichi says he stills believes Fukushima was a nuclear weapons plant.
                  http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Shimatsu_091012.mp3

                  Report Comment

                  aigeezer
                  September 22, 2012 at 2:27 pm · Reply
                  "The elongated shape of the depleted Arctic zone also exactly corresponds to the path of the Fukushima contamination carried by the jet stream"

                  Mack, I don't know enough to take a position for or against Shimatsu's claim, but it seems to me that the Fukushima contamination followed the existing jet stream path and that the depletion zone might also be wind related – depletion might take place along the jet stream path independently of Fukushima's effects. I wouldn't yet draw the conclusion that one caused the other. Worth keeping an eye on though.

                  Report Comment

                  http://enenews.com/forum-general-discussion-thread-nuclear-issues-july-2012/comment-page-17


                  Report comment

                  • aigeezer aigeezer

                    Thanks for the link, NoNukes.

                    There is no discussion there about the lab that PattieB alleges is under unit 4.

                    There is the single post from Mack linking to a rense item that you cite. Mack's post does not mention a lab, and nobody responded to that post – hence no discussion there. PattieB did not claim the lab was a weapons lab, by the way – "weapons lab" is your phrase, and "nuclear weapons plant" is the phrase Mack used.

                    The post of mine that you cite is a response to a different topic, as is obvious from the content and indentation pattern.

                    You say above "there are many discussions". I'm not sure if you still mean "at enenews" or "on the Net". Regardless, and more to the point, is there any evidence anywhere (not speculation) to support PattieB's assertion "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it"?

                    The story so far: PattieB's assertion (quoted above) led to requests for evidence, which led to PattieB telling us it consists of a picture in a 500 page pdf, but she won't tell us where it is in the document.

                    I'm still seeking evidence to confirm her assertion, preferably from her, since it is, after all, her assertion.


                    Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      stick to it aigeezer, your question still has not been answered.

                      you've certainly been fed a lot of fodder, and wow, even a rense link.

                      i'm impressed by the number of tangents one question has created, and you've stood your ground ;)


                      Report comment

                    • Anthony Anthony

                      richard I'm sure you are thinking about all I said and that's fine. But if you want to take another cheap shot at me then I only warn you I am a horrible enemy. One minute out of the gate again and you are throwing shit again. You can see I stand up for what is right and I certainly do for myself. Lets just go our separate ways with purpose.


                      Report comment

                    • PattieB PattieB

                      No you cry baby! I did one better and pulled and posted the pic! And also the blueprints, and the stairs down to it inside lower floor of 4 and all the factors about what it all for and about. Beyond that, your being obtuse!


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      'cuse please Anthony, I was not on your case at all. Let's back away from the arguing. Please.

                      You all have an idea of what riles me, and I know Anthony you haven't done that here. I have absolutely no disagreement with you on this subthread or 99% of the rest of the site. My maths may not be the best, but I think I'm sort a close.

                      Anyway, Patties taken it on as well following your comment.. but no matter, I'm not arguing. I just feel AG has a point.


                      Report comment

                    • Anthony Anthony

                      Sorry for misinterpreting your post.


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      all good, thanks.

                      I merely felt that if we expect direct answers to direct questions from corporations and media et al, we might expect similar from within the forum.

                      And Pattie, if you did answer cleary, I'm sorry if I missed it. The problem maybe that the sub-thread and question became so disjointed and cluttered that I couldn't see it.


                      Report comment

                    • aigeezer aigeezer

                      PattieB has responded below:

                      "PattieB
                      January 17, 2013 at 11:52 pm

                      No you cry baby! I did one better and pulled and posted the pic! And also the blueprints, and the stairs down to it inside lower floor of 4 and all the factors about what it all for and about. Beyond that, your being obtuse!"

                      I can't respond to that post directly because of indentation rules.

                      PattieB, you have indeed posted a link to a 500 page pdf and ordered me – an Internet stranger – to read it in order to find the photo you say is there.

                      You have not "posted the pic" anywhere that I can see, and certainly not as a reply here.

                      I have repeatedly requested that you tell us where the photo is – just give us a page number.

                      The whole world is watching, at least potentially. Are you really taking the position that you have evidence that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it", that the evidence consists of "The 500 and some odd damned report has the frriging PICTURE OF SAID LAB IN IT! aigeezer ! READ IT!", and that you will not reveal the location of the picture within that document?

                      You claim to have extremely important evidence, you won't tell us where it is, and now you say you have told us where it is!

                      Please post the page number of or a link to the photo that constitutes your evidence that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it." Please label it as such.

                      Thanks!


                      Report comment

          • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

            There are other countries with all kinds of 'illegal' and secret nuclear stuff going on…

            Israel's Secret Illegal Nuclear, Biological And Chemical Weapons; via A Green Road http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/04/israels-secret-illegal-nuclear.html

            Dr. Helen Caldicott MD On Nuclear Weapons, MAD/Nuclear Armageddon; via A Green Road
            http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/04/dr-helen-caldicott-md-on-nuclear.html


            Report comment

      • m a x l i

        PattieB, oh what a girl!
        Einstein, Gandhi, McPherson,
        Steve Jobs and James Bond
        All in one person

        Knows everything and tells it loud
        Bundle of charm and fire
        Calls everyone with cautious doubt
        A shill or straight a liar

        She claims they tried to take her out
        The powers that be
        Next we get is name and address
        Look thats me!

        I can't make out what she wants to tell
        It looks like chinese yelling
        She says her hands are handicapped
        That's why that awful spelling

        Word salad, prepared with a hammer
        Secret abbreviations only she understands
        Missing structure, missing grammar
        All caused by her hands?

        Whenever I try to follow
        Any of what she thought
        It leaves me behind hollow
        Empty and distraught

        This could stem
        From the fact that she is clever
        And I am
        Let's say…as dumb as ever

        But still it will not add up
        Because a superior, highly intelligent being
        Should be able to make a commoner
        See what she is seeing

        Forgive me, Pattie, if I'm wrong!
        Will I be now a shill?
        Or can you, for once, sing a song
        That doesn't make me ill?


        Report comment

      • NoNukes NoNukes

        I remember this lab being a topic of discussion on enenews early on after 3/11. The reactor 4 building is damaged beyond repair and sinking regardless.

        http://cryptome.org/2012/10/daiichi-12-0620.pdf

        In this report that PattieB posted, on p163 I believe, it says that there were 2400 workers at all six reactor buildings and that 1200 of them were working at reactor 4. Why were half of the workers all at reactor 4? Do we believe the official story?

        Also, on 327, after the explosions, 20 workers were assigned to "missing person search." First I've heard of that.

        On 359, Tepco describes a "steam cloud," which is their technical term for what we watch on the webcam everyday?

        On the last page there is Tepco's non-apology apology, which can only be helpful to bulimics.

        Thanks, PattieB!


        Report comment

        • aigeezer aigeezer

          NoNukes: "I remember this lab being a topic of discussion on enenews early on after 3/11." Will you provide a link to that discussion, please.


          Report comment

          • NoNukes NoNukes

            If I had it at my fingertips, I would have posted it, aigeezer. In my memory, I remember a photo too. Lab or no lab, r4 is fubar. Maybe something will turn up on a search if you are interested.


            Report comment

          • NoNukes NoNukes

            aigeezer,

            Weapons production at Fukushima, analysis by Yoichi Shimatsu, and apparently the New York Times, as well as Enenews.

            Shimatsu – Proof Of Fukushima Weapons Program
            Rense.com World Exclusive
            By Yoichi Shimatsu
            Former Editor of The Japan Times Weekly
            Studied At UC Berkeley Graduate School Of Journalism

            …Enrichment of uranium for nuclear warheads is prohibited under constitutional law in Japan and by terms of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Since no suspects have been charged by prosecutors, this cannot be a plot by a few individuals but stands as the crime of a national entity. Japan is a rogue state and international outlaw.This should not come as a surprise, considering its past.

            Yellow-Cake Factory 608

            Fukushima Province has a history of involvement in atomic weapons development, according to a New York Times article by Martin Fackler titled "Fukushima's Long Link to a Dark Nuclear Past" (Sept. 6)…

            http://rense.com/general94/proof.htm


            Report comment

            • aigeezer aigeezer

              NoNukes, thanks but there is no need to keep offering me snippets of background information about Fukushima-world. I know that stuff.

              I am seeking a single thing at the moment, namely evidence to support PattieB's very specific assertion that: "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it".

              That's very specific: Lab under reactor building 4 at Fukushima Dai-ichi. No more, no less. Of course I know there are rumors that Fukushima had a weapons facility – that's not what I'm after at the moment.

              Please don't feel you need to take on the task unless you want to. The claim is PattieB's, not yours. I get the sense that you think I don't "get it" about nuke world – I'm just trying to pin down one bold but so-far elusive claim.

              Thanks


              Report comment

              • NoNukes NoNukes

                aigeezer,

                This has already been posted, and is from 4/2011, Yoichi Shimatsu is the one who indicated the location of the weapons lab down in the flooded labyrinth of pipes, where the bodies of two men were found…

                Secret Weapons Program Inside Fukushima Nuclear Plant?
                U.S.-Japan security treaty fatally delayed nuclear workers' fight against meltdown

                By
                Global Research, April 12, 2011
                Fourth Media (China) 11 April 2011

                The smoke and mirrors at Fukushima 1 seem to obscure a steady purpose, an iron will and a grim task unknown to outsiders. The most logical explanation: The nuclear industry and government agencies are scrambling to prevent the discovery of atomic-bomb research facilities hidden inside Japan’s civilian nuclear power plants.

                A secret nuclear weapons program is a ghost in the machine, detectable only when the system of information control momentarily lapses or breaks down. A close look must be taken at the gap between the official account and unexpected events…

                The bloom of irradiated seawater across the Pacific comprises another piece of the puzzle, because its underground source is untraceable (or, perhaps, unmentionable). The flooded labyrinth of pipes, where the bodies of two missing nuclear workers—never before disclosed to the press— were found, could well contain the answer to the mystery: a lab that none dare name.

                http://www.globalresearch.ca/secret-weapons-program-inside-fukushima-nuclear-plant/24275


                Report comment

                • aigeezer aigeezer

                  NoNukes, yes, of course. The existence of that story has never been in dispute. It says:

                  "The flooded labyrinth of pipes, where the bodies of two missing nuclear workers—never before disclosed to the press— were found, could well contain the answer to the mystery: a lab that none dare name."

                  The story raises the question of the possible existence of a lab. It does not provide evidence of the answer – of the actual existence of a specific lab in a specific place.

                  For the umpteenth time… PattieB asserts strongly that the lab under unit 4 exists and that evidence for it exists – not evidence that Japan was doing bad things or that the nuke industry is corrupt or whatever – evidence that "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it". That is extremely specific.

                  Your link that someone is wondering whether such a thing exists is not evidence that it does exist. Your other link that someone found radiation in a cow patty in California is not evidence that a lab exists under unit 4 at Fukushima.

                  I am seeking confirmation of a very specific claim. You keep offering speculation about tangentially related claims.

                  We appear to have this in common: the nuke industry does bad things. The nuke industry has secrets aplenty.

                  I am trying to track something specific – something claimed as fact supported by evidence by the original poster, PattieB.


                  Report comment

                • NoNukes NoNukes

                  To recap:

                  1. You were wrong to claim that it was PattieB's idea, the idea that there is a secret weapons lab under reactor 4 comes from Yoichi Shimatsu, who was the editor of the Japan Times Weekly.

                  2. You were wrong to claim that it has "never been discussed here."

                  3. Obviously, diagrams of a secret weapons lab are not released at press conferences, so the implication that they should be handy is absurd, the whole point of a secret weapons lab is that it is secret, not mapped out for the public.

                  What Tepco does admit in press conferences is that they regularly lie by omission.

                  "On the daily press conference, Tepco stated there are some doors and rooms in reactor3, which Tepco can not disclose."

                  http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/05/there-are-some-rooms-in-reactor-3-which-tepco-can-not-disclose/


                  Report comment

                  • aigeezer aigeezer

                    I am mindful that you may want to extend and expand the diversion, NoNukes, but for the sake of leaving a complete trail:

                    1. I am constantly and consistently referring to a very specific quotation from PattieB, namely "You need to remember that reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it" (linked at end of post).

                    2. I refuted this point from you earlier, in response to your offering a link to a post that had no replies, hence no discussion. It's possible that we are talking about different things. I am talking only about the specific assertion by PattieB, namely "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it". You have been talking about various hypothetical weapons programs in various hypothetical places – which may very well exist for all I know.

                    3. Please don't patronize me – I understand what "secret" means. That "secret" aspect makes it all the more interesting that PattieB can make her bold assertion that "reactor building 4 has an entire lab built under it". Applying your secrecy argument… How could she learn such a secret and obtain her claimed evidence of it (unrevealed, except to say it's a picture somewhere in a 500 page document)?

                    For those who tuned in late, this all started about here:

                    http://enenews.com/photo-first-layer-of-cover-for-fukushima-unit-4/comment-page-1#comment-323584


                    Report comment

                    • NoNukes NoNukes

                      aigeezer,

                      Until we all donate to fund flights for Enenews contributors to inspect the remains of reactor 4, what we have for "evidence" is the word of Yoichi Shimatsu v. Tepco.

                      So in Tepco v. Yoichi Shimatsu, we can choose to assume that Tepco doesn't have a weapons lab, until proven otherwise, as you seem to, or assume that Shimatsu is right that Tepco does have a weapons lab under reactor 4, as PattieB seems to, or some other belief altogether.

                      Since the one thing that Tepco does enthusiastically is to lie, they have been lying for decades, I don't really see why I should assume that Tepco is telling the truth on this one.

                      If they did have weapons lab below reactor 4, it would explain some big mysteries:

                      Why did reactor 4 blow up?

                      Why the censorship of the film of reactor 4 blowing up?

                      Why were 1200 workers at reactor 4 when the earthquake hit?

                      Etc.

                      Since Shimatsu seems to have a better track record in telling the truth than Tepco, I now see every reason to default to his interpretation rather than Tepco's.

                      If the nuclear plants in Japan were working with the U.S. military bases to produce our nuclear weapons, that would go a long way to explain why we have 90+ military bases in Japan.


                      Report comment

                    • NoNukes NoNukes

                      From 2002 NY Times:

                      Safety Problems at Japanese Reactors Begin to Erode Public's Faith in Nuclear Power
                      By HOWARD W. FRENCH
                      Published: September 16, 2002

                      The reports of safety lapses, fraudulent repairs and cover-ups at Japan's largest nuclear power company began with a trickle but have resounded into an industry nightmare.

                      The details, filled in over the last two weeks by one alarming report after another, show a potentially catastrophic pattern of cost-cutting along with 16 years of cover-ups of serious flaws, apparently in an effort to preserve public trust. The pattern includes the systematic falsification of inspection and repair records at 13 reactors at the company, Tokyo Electric, the world's largest private electrical utility.

                      http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/16/world/safety-problems-japanese-reactors-begin-erode-public-s-faith-nuclear-power.html


                      Report comment

                  • Jebus

                    I would like to step in here because of a point that needs clarifying…

                    NoNukes said: "Why were 1200 workers at reactor 4 when the earthquake hit?"

                    The answer to that is #4 was being refuelrd. Apparently there are upwards of 2000 workers during a refuel, so that number, 1200 workers, is not out of line and adds no result to the assertion, by some, that there was a "secret lab" under the complex…

                    NEI Nuclear Notes

                    Although a utility could potentially perform refueling on two reactors at a time, it is generally not done for two reasons. First, a refueling outage requires a large amount of resources. Typically, about 2,000 contract workers are brought on site to support the outage, allowing the utility to work continuously 24/7 until the outage is complete.

                    http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/2012/05/what-happens-during-refueling-outage.html


                    Report comment

        • VanneV anne

          Secret Weapons Program Inside Fukushima Nuclear Plant?
          U.S.-Japan security treaty fatally delayed nuclear workers' fight against meltdown
          http://www.globalresearch.ca/secret-weapons-program-inside-fukushima-nuclear-plant/24275


          Report comment

          • aigeezer aigeezer

            anne, I'm not sure, but are you offering that story link as evidence for PattieB's elusive lab? The only topic-related item I see in the story is:

            "The flooded labyrinth of pipes, where the bodies of two missing nuclear workers—never before disclosed to the press— were found, could well contain the answer to the mystery: a lab that none dare name."

            That is certainly an interesting speculation, but not yet evidence of anything, and the article says nothing further about the alleged lab that I can see.


            Report comment

      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        Agreed, aigeezer. PattieB provides much here that is new to me; like for instance:
        –A new load of plutonium fuel, not MOX, and not Uranium, was parked in the cask pool.
        –That Reactor4 was being loaded on 3/11/2012, and was partially loaded when the earthquake struck.
        –That plutonium fuel is hot, even new fuel. So hot that it can catch fire even underwater.
        –That the pump leak on 3/11/2011, didn't entirely drain SFP4, but only drained the pool to the lower sill of the gate.
        –That the 2 "new fuel assemblies" TEPCO pulled out of SFP4, with such fanfare, might have actually been dummy fuel assemblies kept there for training.
        –That the 2 main fires in Building4 were NOT in the SFP, as we had been led to believe, but in the cask pool and the reactor itself. TEPCO insists that the reactor was empty at the time of the earthquake.
        All this is very good stuff, if true, and would profoundly change my view of the situation. For instance, I have still not seen photographic evidence of the partial loading of Reactor4, nor of the reactor plug stuck on the crane at the time of the tsumani. (This might be due to my inability to find the photo on the C.A.N. website.)
        Where has PattiB been during this whole thing? I am learning so much from her, and hope the requests for further verification, yours, mine, and from othere here, don't offend her and drive this valuable lady's voice away!


        Report comment

  • PattieB PattieB

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151251096981033.465232.530836032&type=1&l=b5e7823596

    And I posted there on C.A.N. a pic taken live of them loading the core of #4 when quake hit.


    Report comment

  • PattieB PattieB

    anne I'm making you my secretary! I swear! I've posted the sheets from Japan gov. with listing of what was in cores, and also their end of year statment where the 41 missing PU breeder rods comes from. anne may have saved the links… don't count on them still existing! This was last years, and year before stuff.


    Report comment

  • PattieB PattieB

    I've uploaded the core-load sheet to C.A.N. on FB And belive the other may still be in Radchicks buckett.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    This one explains what they pulled out of the pool… key here, it sits right beside the gateway to core.

    here's the pool layout…

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/113622485391538/files/#!/photo.php?fbid=10151236208706033&set=o.113622485391538&type=3&theater


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  • PattieB PattieB

    check out Jan 16th… I renamed the loading one, then re-uploaded it with some other stuff on CAN photo..


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  • PattieB PattieB

    now… if you believe Tepco, they just pulled the plug out of that reactor #4… only I have it out on the side, in the vid showing it's the 3rd month, 26th. Day…


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  • PattieB PattieB

    The quake hit… they tried to run it back to park… didn't make it before the wave hit… it got caught sitting over the loading channel.


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    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      PattieB: What's so special about Pu Fuel, that would make TEPCO think it would be worth the risk of trying to safely manufacture and handle plutonium fuel, and plutonium spent fuel? Is it simply because they can justify their fast breeder reactor, and because spent uranium fuel essentially costs them nothing? (May have answered my own question, there. It's always about the money, isn't it?)


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      • Mack Mack

        Remember the DCBureau article on Japan + Pu ?

        "UNITED STATES CIRCUMVENTED LAWS TO HELP JAPAN ACCUMULATE TONS OF PLUTONIUM"

        —> Japan "has used its electrical utility companies as a cover to allow the country to amass enough nuclear weapons materials to build a nuclear arsenal larger than China, India and Pakistan combined."

        —> "Japan had a dual use nuclear program"

        —> …"there was also a secret component, an undeclared nuclear weapons program that would allow Japan to amass enough nuclear material and technology to become a major nuclear power on short notice"

        —> "civilian nuclear power to hide a secret bomb program"

        http://www.dcbureau.org/201204097128/national-security-news-service/united-states-circumvented-laws-to-help-japan-accumulate-tons-of-plutonium.html


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        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          Bad news, indeed. Consider:
          Japan guilty of first strike against US at Pearl Harbor.
          Japan first victim of nuke bombs by US.
          Japan resentment of US first use of nuclear weapons.
          Japan resentment of US/GE supplied faulty Mark I nuke plants.
          Japan #3 largest economy on Earth.
          Japan at loggerheads with China over contested island territories.

          Japan as a major nuclear bomb power? A very unwelcomed development.


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      • PattieB PattieB

        Ok.. here's the facts. And if you go to the files I've uploaded, just like the cam-vids. I've posted the entire readout of the control computer of reactor #3 at time of quake. They were running the core of 567 rods, 140 rods short of full load. Staggered pyrimidal in-step of control rods, with titanium reflectors to absorb the "Dirty" stuff. It's a 140 day cycle to purify the unwanted PU-140 & 141 out of the rods… leaving just PU-239 & U-235. This isn't speculation. The physics alone by the fact that dispite being short 140+ rods in the reactor? It was running at 109%. Not even Mox rods can give you that with the center control rod in 21 steps, then each set going to the outside rows out-steped 4 more points. What was in the core is LISTED by run-time age on the printout/core layout.he pool went bang because it has some PU rods in it, but they were more than 10 years old. The hydrogen ignition caused a blast-wave (Compression) to slam them together. This caused a prompt criticality.
        The second explosion was the core melt-down causing a similar event… pointed down at the ground.
        Now.#3is a BWR-3, and marginal for even MOX use. Here in US, and other Countries are using BWR-1 !! Like Fuku-1 with mox, and that's SCARY.
        #4 reactor is a BWR-5 And not a GE product.They don't list it as having MOX, yet by the count of new rods, and the fact that all new rods delivered were from Ariva and were MOX rods? The vid of the rods in the cask-pool… they were not Urainium…


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      • VanneV anne

        I think they want to pretend that there is a closed nuclear cycle possible. But this is impossible. There is no answer to the nuclear waste problem. But with no solution to the nuclear waste problem, it is even more imperative that all nuclear power plants must be stopped immediately.


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      • VanneV anne

        They are making big bucks selling and constructing nuclear energy plants around the whole world. They have to make it look like there is new technology that will be wonderful. Like the story, the emperor who wore no clothes.

        I don't know how much is self-delusion and how much is just selfishness.

        If anyone survives, the nuclear industry will not be loved in the history books, if there will be any history books possible.


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  • PavewayIII PavewayIII

    Consider what, exactly? Which atrocity was worse?

    Japan invaded China in 1937 for their food, natural resources and easily-enslaveable labor. Nanking: 100K Chinese civilians killed to teach them a lesson. Japan came very close to owning developed China before the war ended:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Occupation_1940.PNG

    The U.S. did little until its own interests were at stake. The entire world (except the U.S.) seemed to know that the U.S.-led total Japanese oil embargo in late 1941 would force the Imperial Navy to attack the U.S. Pacific Fleet first. When it happened soon thereafter, the rest of the world scratched their collective heads when the U.S. claimed it was a surprise and Japan didn't fill out the proper form, first.

    And I don't think you're going to get much sympathy about nuclear bombing from the 1945 Tokyo residents that had been enduring eight or so month of U.S. firebombing at the time. This is Tokyo (not Hiroshima or Nagasaki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tokyo_1945-3-10-1.jpg
    Dead is dead.

    Japanese old-schoolers like Abe fear China's retribution, not their ownership of a few rocks in the sea. The LDP must arm Japan to the hilt and threaten nuclear annihilation if China attacks them. Japan's hired nuclear mercenaries – the U.S. – can't be trusted anymore.


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    • or-well

      PattieB, what was being enriched at Nagasaki that the second bomb destroyed?


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      • PattieB PattieB

        see ^ below..our posts got spread! :-)


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      • NoNukes NoNukes

        or-well,

        Maybe the answer is this way?

        ISHIKAWA, Japan — Kiwamu Ariga skirted the paddies of ripening rice, moving briskly despite his 81 years to reach a pile of yellowish rocks at the foot of a steep, forested hillside.
        Related

        Japan Leader to Keep Nuclear Phase-Out (September 3, 2011)
        Japan Held Nuclear Data, Leaving Evacuees in Peril (August 9, 2011)
        Japanese Find Radioactivity on Their Own (August 1, 2011)
        Times Topic: Japan — Earthquake, Tsunami and Nuclear Crisis (2011)

        The New York Times
        Ishikawa is 36 miles from the Fukushima Daiichi plant.
        Enlarge This Image

        Kazuhiro Yokozeki for The New York Times
        Army officers and student workers, including Mr. Ariga, at a quarry in May 1945. He was in junior high school at the time.
        It was here that, as a junior high school student in the final months of World War II, Mr. Ariga and his classmates were put to work hacking rocks out of the hill’s then exposed stone face until the blood ran from their sandaled feet. The soldiers told them nothing beyond instructing them to look for stones with brown or black spots.

        Then one day, Mr. Ariga recalled, an officer finally explained what they were after: “With the stones that you boys are digging up, we can make a bomb the size of a matchbox that will destroy all of New York.” Mr. Ariga said he did not learn other details of Japan’s secrecy-wrapped efforts to build an atomic bomb until years after the war.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/world/asia/06abomb


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        • NoNukes NoNukes

          By Robert Neff
          Contributing Writer

          It is common knowledge that on October 9, 2006 North Korea tested a small nuclear bomb. But there is debate as to whether or not this was the first atomic bomb test done in Korea. Ever since the end of World War II there have been rumors that Japan, just days before its surrender, tested a small atomic bomb off the coast of modern Hamheung.

          Allegedly, on the evening of August 11, 1945, a number of ancient ships, junks and fishing boats were anchored near a small inlet by the Japanese. Just before dawn on August 12, a remote controlled launch carrying the atomic bomb known as “genzai bakudan'' (greatest fighter), slowly made its way through the assembled fleet and beached itself.

          Nearly twenty miles away, observers wearing welders' glasses were blinded by the bomb's terrific blast. “The ball of fire was estimated to be 1,000 yards in diameter. A multicolored cloud of vapors boiled towards the heavens then mushroomed in the stratosphere. The churn of water and vapor obscured the vessels directly under the burst. Ships and junks on the fringe burned fiercely at anchor. When the atmosphere cleared slightly the observers could detect several vessels had vanished.''

          David Snell, an American journalist, broke the story and published his article on October 2, 1946 in the Atlanta Constitution. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/12/113_56715.html


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          • NoNukes NoNukes

            We are supposed to believe that Japan has abstained from nuclear weapons…

            From a link on PattieB's link:

            "Given that they are occupied by the US, for all intents and purposes.

            I am having some serious doubts, serious doubts that Japan actually has no nukes.

            I am actually starting to think they do and they are on the US bases.

            In otherwords, Japan has the nuclear power plants to enable the manufacture of nuclear bombs that are present in Japan.

            http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2011/04/like-israel-japan-is-nuclear-power.html


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            • NoNukes NoNukes

              and a link from there:

              Kishi secretly negotiated a deal with the White House to permit the U.S. military to store atomic bombs in Okinawa and Atsugi naval air station outside Tokyo. (Marine corporal Lee Harvey Oswald served as a guard inside Atsugi's underground warhead armory.) In exchange, the U.S. gave the nod for Japan to pursue a "civilian" nuclear program.

              Secret diplomacy was required due to the overwhelming sentiment of the Japanese public against nuclear power in the wake of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombings. Two years ago, a text of the secret agreement was unearthed by Katsuya Okada, foreign minister in the cabinet of the first Democratic Party prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama (who served for nine months from 2009-10).

              Many key details were missing from this document, which had been locked inside the Foreign Ministry archives. Retired veteran diplomat Kazuhiko Togo disclosed that the more sensitive matters were contained in brief side letters, some of which were kept in a mansion frequented by Kishi's half-brother, the late Prime Minister Eisaku Sato (who served from 1964-72). Those most important diplomatic notes, Togo added, were removed and subsequently disappeared.

              These revelations were considered a major issue in Japan, yet were largely ignored by the Western media. With the Fukushima nuclear plant going up in smoke, the world is now paying the price of that journalistic neglect.

              http://newamericamedia


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    • VanneV anne

      Japan tsunami: Fukushima Fifty, the first interview
      Exclusive: in their own words, members of the Fukushima Fifty – the emergency crew tackling Japan’s nuclear crisis – tell of the dangers and fears they face
      “…Workers told how the earthquake ripped through the plant, immediately knocking out the main power. A ghastly boom was heard in the suppression chamber of reactor 4, said Kenji Tada, who was there at the time. Cracks started ripping in the asphalt and the sides of the building. They fled before the tsunami arrived and did its worst. As the situation deteriorated, the first explosion, at reactor 3 on March 14, happened at the precise moment that six soldiers from the Japanese Central Nuclear Biological Chemical Weapon Defence Unit arrived at the reactor in two vehicles. The six of them are now dead, buried under flying concrete….”
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8408863/Japan-tsunami-Fukushima-Fifty-the-first-interview.html


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  • Mack Mack

    Heart of the Rose linked this in another thread. It's an article written by Yoichi Shimatsu, where he says:

    "…Reactor 4 had been recently loaded with fresh fuel rods in preparation for start-up on March 12. Its planned operation was kept secret and unscheduled, and therefore had to be linked to illegal enrichment of weapons-grade uranium for the purpose of making nuclear warheads."

    and

    "A nuclear blast inside Reactor 4 created enough heat to set its spent-fuel pool on fire, and also intensified the neutron bombardment against a degraded Reactor 3, which exploded in a mushroom cloud on the next day, March 15."

    http://rense.com/general95/offic.html

    (I have no opinion on this, just putting it here for discussion.)


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    • VanneV anne

      Solve the mystery of the 548 book vanished Fukui Chi (iv) machine mystery
      6:49 2011 / 11 / 12 (Sat)
      Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant 4 at no. 4 on the floor, exactly what was done?

      Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant 4 what was on Earth done at the unit?

      “Fukushima No. 1 at the nuclear power plant unit 4 what was on Earth done?. Missile factory, top secret uranium enrichment plant, nuclear weapons production plants. If you think stout, Chris Lilley has various hypotheses. So, unit 4 reports and in fact is inconsistent.

      “All fuel had been taken during a periodical inspection, no. 4, but they heat has been observed at the top of the reactor well. Further, not felt this way while also reported with a sense of crisis and dangerous, in fact damaged dangerous spent fuel pools. This is nuclear fuel indicating may had installed nuclear reactor unit 4 and unit 4 open outside the basis that inspire the suspect was driving.

      “All four sides have collapsed is the unit 4 reactor building wall. Now is a hydrogen explosion, had been reported initially that fire. Explosion or fire, it is caused by what? Unit 4 was in during a periodical inspection when a disaster occurs, tend to think and begin with explosives is not Eva's, 311 of is unfounded.


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      "’Eva-3 hydrogen through the flues to item (iv) from I was entering in reactor building hydrogen explosion. And exhaust ducts (iv) machine building on the north side but was in rupture could have been had I had in from sharing the ducts into again lie between you and. 』

      “Is a moron. Himself to solve the mystery, not mingle fool expedient to ponder. First of all, I want to turning to nuclear fuel pool-4. And I want to advance the talk while solving the conflict.

      http://www.kantei.go.jp-JP-topics-2011-PDF-04-accident

      ■ spent nuclear fuel pool 97% occupancy-4

      http://pirandds.nomaki.jp/AP/APpool.htm

      “Spent fuel pools-4's of 1535 ( in 204 new fuels ) of nuclear fuel bundle that is housed. Is the maximum number of allowable edge No.4 machine spent fuel pools at 1590 book. Other occupancy unit is between 40 and 60%. Try other than sticks out 97% of the unit 4.

      “Nuclear fuel would burn uranium-238 and plutonium 239 is produced as a by-product. In the end up with spontaneous fission is actually ahead, neutron capture plutonium-239 and plutonium 240.

      “Plutonium-240


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “One plutonium-239 is to capture a neutron becomes plutonium-240. Burned in light-water reactor nuclear fuel is burned in three years. In the generate plutonium-239, plutonium 240 also were generated. Percentage of plutonium 240 will affect 20 percent nuclear fuel burned in reactors. Purity of plutonium-239 is a more than 90 percent sought weapons-grade plutonium, plutonium 240 has problem is known and consumed by LWR spent nuclear fuel is not suitable for nuclear weapons.

      “But unlike plutonium-239 can be controlled and calculated, plutonium-240 has a fatal weakness that spontaneous fission. From spontaneous fission of plutonium 240 generated spent nuclear fuel in the reactor should not be weapons-grade plutonium, even in. Spontaneous fission is excessive trigger early causes serious problems such as explosions. In other words without critical Bambang neutron out.

      “Given the plutonium 240 is put into a 1 point of danger is spent nuclear fuel. Another 40-60% appropriate's as well as Eva, occupancy of the spent fuel pools. Spent fuel pools-4 occupancy rate is 97%. 1590 In 1535 this is enclosed. Unusual in that. Other error that shine through you compare occupancy of the unit.

      “I wonder if really had is housed in 1535 this spent fuel pools-4. I wonder why did not distribute the reactor spent fuel pools can afford to share more. I wonder if even thought they are amateurs. Why cram 1535 this nuclear fuel, spent fuel pools-4 missing.


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “Eyes for you want to suffer from spent nuclear fuel pool 1535 book with 97% share of understanding, before transition of the number of stored in spent fuel pools-4.

      http://www.News24.jp/articles/2011/03/15/06178400.html

      “I think 783 this figure is really appropriate as a lamb in spent fuel pools 1590 book in the allowable number of.

      “It's announced and Tokyo electric power company's number stored in spent fuel pools-4 in late April press release, 1331 this further I want to note that.

      http://xwin2.typepad.jp/xwin2weblog/2011/04/fukushimaradioutp.html

      “And fuel bundle is stored in spent fuel pools-4 number is 783 book, had been reported at 3/15. 1535 Book it rewritten 1331 book in late April and has now further more the 204 in Tokyo electric power company and the Government's official position.

      “In fact, one. Need to return to the starting point.

      “First of all, going back 1331 book from 1535. The answer is 204. To match the number of fuel has now been released. An odd match, but leave for the time being.

      “783 Books going back further from 1331. Answer drawn was 548. Keep up the missing body of 548, a number came straight out like a charm this figure. The fuel collection of fitted units.

      “(Initial reportedly) 783 book ( fitted units ) +548 book +204 book (new fuel) = 1535 book.

      “This must be a coincidence real


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “This must be a coincidence really, either.

      “204 This fuel is also a doubt. Is the Tokyo electric power company (iv) before the machine calibration press 140 book release has been announced the exchange of fuel. In, store the 64 books, extra. Also try an unusual share of ministries is no reason which carries the work unit 4. Number 204 fuel that is derived from where? Easy with that. 1331 Book is number minus the 204 fuel from 1535 to sign. In other words, too odd numbers mate's mean can be seen.

      “In fact, one.

      “■ Exchange of shroud-4 periodic inspection

      “That 4 No. 311 of was when a disaster occurs, during a scheduled inspection. 9/2011 With 24 299 days in Tokyo electric power company's press release. Periodic inspection period has taken longer, well Jet pump and shroud replacement replace other renovation plans because it seems.

      http://www.TEPCO.co.jp/CC/press/10112901-j.html

      “(3) shroud * second class construction
      Stress corrosion cracking shroud of commute from the point of view of preventive maintenance will further improve reliability. Also the internals of Jet pump for well, stress corrosion cracking to do replacement preventive maintenance against the terms.
      “(4) reactor recirculation system piping, repair replace pipes, reactor recirculation systems is cutting the shroud construction, construction, etc.


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “* 2 cylindrical stainless steel structure attached to shroud nuclear reactor pressure vessel internal ( bulkhead ), to house the collection of fuel and control rods such as internal.

      ———————抜粋

      “Shroud ( covered, meaning ) is a giant reactor internals of the parts that were welded together. Is a cylindrical type austenitic stainless steel. The outer shell of a giant core of four to five meters in diameter and 5 cm thick. Austenitic stainless steel is strong radiation ( on neutrons? ) and said.

      “4) Manufacture of shroud
      Shroud is a large-sized precision structures. Stepping on machining, welding, machining and step into production based on a strict quality assurance plan, paying close attention and make. And material is not the 1, 2 famous iron and steel manufacturers in Japan on a special order cannot be supplied. The turnaround usually takes 10 months. Production at the plant is nearly a year lead time hangs in the materials after you have obtained a. After producing, incorporates into the reactor pressure vessel. シュ ラウドサポートレグ of welded structures, installed accurately to the reactor power vessel and then assembled in the factory or in the field welding paying close attention to alignment and control rod through holes on the.
      http://www.Engy-Sqr.com/kaisetu/topics/shroud.htm


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “If the say Word to replace most of the furnaces in the disassemble and take preparation, to replace the pump, should be a considerable large scale construction. The following provided TEPCO or unit 4 was what happened when a disaster occurs, 311 from about,.

      http://www.TEPCO.co.jp/CC/press/betu11_j/images/110617y.PDF

      “Note that was the State of shroud has not been removed.

      “※ Image description of the Tokyo electric power company. Pressure vessel lid has been removed, shrouded remains filled up state.

      “DS pool or reactor well occur filled up State is removing the body and at the top of the shroud shroud replacement preparations facilities. In the bottom left, below the State. And periodic inspections medium-term status, in other words a fuel Exchange State, has been removed as the first step of shroud replacement equipment will be moved to the DS pool, temporarily be put.

      Bottom left status.

      “DS pools with reactor-well the spent fuel pool, reactor building.

      “311 Crisis when a disaster occurs, reactor well was filled up. Replacement shroud, was the fuel Exchange State. What is DS pool was filled up. The earthquake had led to reactor well located at the top of the unit 4 reactor building until the last minute and spent fuel pools, DS pool in.


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “Let there be only no. 4's dangerous nuclear fuel pool of the machine was noisy also, assign priority to the elephant, was eager to water cannons in spent fuel pools, blasted in the spent fuel pools, cooling water into the reactor well and DS pool knew from was not was.

      Two swimming pools because fuel melting around water inflow, unit 4: Science: YOMIURI ONLINE (Yomiuri Shimbun)
      http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yomiuri.co.jp%2Fscience%2Fnews%2F20110619-OYT1T00558.htm

      “Unit 4 was during a periodical inspection might be true. Reactor containment vessel lid was dropped and also the lid of the reactor pressure vessel was removed. You can see so far. But the part that "all fuel out in is," has big doubts. After 548 book was installed in the No. 4 nuclear reactors is suspicion? Heat source reactor well above what I can explain why 1590 books bring in 1535 this pool capacity, and also Eastern Electric Announces numbers made the transition well. Actually was spent fuel pools kept out of 1535, is a 784 books. 204 New fuel was placed where?

      “204 This fuel was placed in the DS pool isn't or?


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “Imagination and
      "’Putting out the pictures, taken with infrared cameras DS pool and under the dangerous spent fuel pool reactor well I got 騒いじ is a dangerous, in fact broken Gates is super hot I, source of heat in nuclear reactors was revealed. I'm lost from cooling function is all power don't lost no. 4, DS pool with under water level water level fell, I'm very much something weird like lay DS pool. But I'm thinking I exploded it!, the first is fire lies again. But I think if you normally see that wall and come out. Really do anything weird dried up was DS pool is 4 I lied lied, surpassing in a hydrogen unit from 3 but I'm thinking most of the reactor building wall and collapse, is now connected to ducts, I'm sorry. Damn! ‘

      “Not at all.

      “Was the containment lid and pressure vessel lid was removed a reactor well ago was filled to capacity.. Really helps it can be a fuel bundle 548 this core is?

      “As to get the plutonium-239 in plutonium production reactor-specific non-operating with a rational explanation, if you had been driving very much.

      “And make up most of the collection of fuel uranium 238 captures neutrons to uranium-239. Uranium-239 vary by repeating the radioactive decay into plutonium-239. Capture the neutrons, 2. In 5 days. If you set the fuel core once, is a trick effectively be removed in three days to produce plutonium.


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    • VanneV anne

      [cont.]
      “There are saying, if Tokai plant, Ibaraki Prefecture. So while the Tokai nuclear power plants are already decommissioning and demolition in every so often plagued fuel switching equipment trouble also was replacing fuel of 20 to 30 days. Is the UK to export high-purity plutonium 239 is called weapons-grade plutonium plutonium isotopes.

      “Crisis emergency 311 Fukushima No. 1 than during a periodical inspection, 4 nuclear reactor was the fuel Exchange State. Break down core structures resulting from the replacement shroud when a would have placed state judging up to DS pool filled with water..

      “And if you view that grub, Eva is specialized fuel Exchange became a pillar of the plutonium 239 production also said that isn't or.

      “Considered the simple definition and naming is a reactor to produce plutonium-239 and plutonium production reactor power capabilities were eliminated-specific. Because to boil water, need not turn a turbine, not have put pressure on also. Because of the air-driven reactor pressure vessel lid across the Board. Actually, I think power-generating capability, concept is simple.”
      http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fhatajinan.blog61.fc2.com%2Fblog-entry-340.html


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    • VanneV anne

      Is fuel melting around unit 4, water inflow from two different pools
      Fukushima nuclear power plant
      “Shortly after Tokyo Electric Power Co., 19 East Japan earthquake occurs, large amounts of water flowing from two separate pool storage pool, Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant Eva nuclear fuel temp was escaping from the crisis likely, and officially announced.

      “Because the two kinds of pool water level is falling 4.6 m than at the time of the earthquake, Tokyo electric power company is on the same day, started pouring water into two pools.
      “From the submerged pool (iv) aircraft fuel fuel spilt despite pool boils in a few days on the calculation, so the heat was out, before pouring water on 3/22 there was enough water, for melting of fuel on the final.
      “About 1,000 tons of water are gone from two different devices tentatively placed pool pool "nuclear reactor well" so far Tokyo electric power company restored the instrument, at the time was filled up and turned out to be. Was seen off by steel in hydrogen explosion or of an earthquake shock, ran between the pool and plenty of water flowed into the fuel pool side.”
      http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yomiuri.co.jp%2Fscience%2Fnews%2F20110619-OYT1T00558.htm


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  • PattieB PattieB

    the Plutonium in the pool… also, it's been hushed-up… is ours. It's sort-of missing, but secret conference with congress told where it was.. (JAPAN, Fukushima!) and yes, they were to 'clean' it and send it back. It got there on that so-called passenger jet that got shot down… but, not really. That was a spoof to get the soviet presence GONE from Japan skies. They can monitor rads… and been doing it again since 311. It's a complicated mess, in truth. The US TOLD the Japan Gov. that they CAN NOT stop their nuke program.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Multi-reasons… main one is that Japan owns more than 60% of nuke industry in the US these days… so we can't have that. They ran Paduka at 2x norm for all 2012… even went light in the wallet doing it. Stocking up their fuel in the DUMBS… seems like the smart thing, considering the fallout we are reciving now.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    strickly speaking… from a tech-point of view? Only the #3 corium has the punch remaining to go bang again. And that won't happen until it hits bedrock. One of my pics is a study I did on that part… and it will be a while yet, but it makes all the stuff they are doing…. make work?


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  • WE would all need steel framing around our heads if we believe anything TEPCO or the Japanese Government ever says again. Is the ground stable? Is it bedrock? Only TEPCO knows. And we know that equals that we will never know what is really happening. The reality of this situation is that the Japanese Government is already telling the people that they better get use to the idea of Nuclear Energy. And, in Japan, like everywhere else in the world where there is a controlling elite, only they will tell us what is going to happen. That is the way of the world. If we want you to EAT Plutonium, you most certainly will eat it..or else.


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  • kez

    Yoichi Shimatsu is listed as author for so many of the links on this thread and others that I can't even link this to one comment. I challenge each and every one of you to consider some of his articles/videos carefully before relying on him as a verifiable credible source.

    He was an editor of Japan Times Weekly in the early 90's. My research on his byline shows him listed as an associate editor to general editor when he contributed to some US papers. I have found dates that show *after* being an editor he was a staff writer and reporter there. I will provide links.

    I can't pinpoint the exact date he left the Japan Times but it was before 2000. (This part I am typing from memory because my phone locked up and I lost those bookmarks; as I said I will redo that research and provide some links.)

    Since then his mostly alt net and freelance writing is geared toward conspiracy theories. Tin hat stuff IMO and never backed up by research links as to where he gets his "facts" information or anything upon which he bases his rather outrageous opinions.

    One would have to essentially fact check his versions of history science politics in every paragraph … but he spins quite a tale swallowed hook line and sinker by quite a few who either don't know that a scholarly research article should include references or they just don't care. (Cont)


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    • PattieB PattieB

      True,… yet what he says supports the other data and stuff I've aquired directly from sources on the ground @ fukushima. My milt. sources and what I can get from others that I haven't given names. Some are active milt. I have vid and photos, and stuff that is internal Tepco docs not meant for public view.

      It makes the fact of one person posting questionable stuff, mute.


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        • kez

          PattieB … I finished my post on another topic thread. (Almost; there are still some dates I need to look up again.)

          But let me get you straight here. You agree that Yoichi Shimatsu is a tin hat reporter who never backs up his opnions with researched facts …

          But you use him as a source because he "backs up" the secret stuff you purport to have (also unsubstantiated) …

          And this practice makes all the "questionable stuff" mute. … err … moot?

          OK … you read it here first folks.

          **OMfreakinG**


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          • PattieB PattieB

            Quite obviously you both DID NOT look at what I have posted, nor opened and read any of the files… NONE of them come from the site links you speak of… so, I don't know what to say to your comment, honestly.


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          • PattieB PattieB

            there is more than one photo set, and also I take it every thing that others have posted as well… is just besides the point, as I didn't post it?


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            • kez

              PattieB … I believe I mentioned the other night that I couldn't access the damn Facebook links

              There was a swarm of links today posted by you NoNukes and Anne in defense of secret nuke arms labs wtf ever at Daiichi … I looked at several.

              Authored by Yoichi Shimatsu. I chose to spend way too much time today researching this nutcase tin hat conspiracy whacko.

              Just by the very FACT that you and others have even wasted this forum's time w this crackpot's ideas insults me …

              Why ON EARTH would I waste any more time researching any other links you have to offer?????

              Dea


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              • PattieB PattieB

                Nothing in my links has anything to do with said person.
                Nothing in my files list is Authored by Yoichi Shimatsu
                But you may go along your merry way…

                Like some others. You have taken one item of a complex discusion to fixate on. One, no less that has not one actual thing to do with the matter at hand. Okay.

                I'll leave you to your thoughts.


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              • NoNukes NoNukes

                Kez,

                Find a quote, anywhere, where PattieB uses Yoichi Shimatsu as you say? I don't know of one.

                *I* posted the link to Shimatsu as proof of the *discussion* that we've had on this topic on Enenews. Aigeezer said there hasn't been discussion of a weapons lab in the basement and I posted reference to that because there has.

                No one is more bat-shit crazy than Tepco, with their insane "cold shutdown" conspiracy as they disperse poison throughout our atmosphere, killing life in the ocean, the trees, and humans, especially babies. Yoichi has nothing on them.

                The nuclear weapons program in Japan is far more extensive than commonly understood, why would Fukushima be left out? It has been the site of flat-out fraudulent coverups for generations.


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                • kez

                  Another HUGE waste of time then for us or this forum on this circular argument isn't it NoNuke?

                  Shimatsu forwarded the weapons manufacturing theory … (along with the theory that Lanza's mother kept guns because she feared covens of pedophiles. *groan*)

                  You passed it along here in defense of PattieB's claims.

                  She doesn't deny because as she says above … Shamatsu supports her theories.

                  This is why I hate this fringe conspiracy fucking tin hat shit.

                  It's unprovable and creates endless stupid arguments.

                  Jerk your own selves off … I am off this thread.


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                  • NoNukes NoNukes

                    Kez,

                    Now is the time for something like: "My apologies, PattieB, you didn't talk about Shimatsu, that was NoNukes." Otherwise, you're just making empty attacks that aren't true.

                    Find a quote were I offer the Shimatsu article "in defense of PattieB's claims."

                    I obviously offered it as evidence for MY claim that aigeezer was wrong in his statement that there hadn't been discussion of the topic on Enenews before, that it was a new idea, and I offered quotes proving that there had already been discussion of the idea a lab in the basement of r4 before on Enenews,

                    These are empty attacks, a pattern is developing of you making claims that aren't true about other people here.


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                    • aigeezer aigeezer

                      NoNukes says: "I offered quotes proving that there had already been discussion of the idea a lab in the basement of r4 before on Enenews,"

                      That is not correct, NoNukes. You claimed but did not prove that there had been discussion of the idea (of) a lab in the basement of r4 on Enenews. Specifically, you cited for "proof" a single post:

                      "Mack
                      September 22, 2012 at 2:17 pm · Reply
                      In his latest interview, Yoichi says he stills believes Fukushima was a nuclear weapons plant.
                      http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Shimatsu_091012.mp3"

                      … which I countered by pointing out that it is a single post that mentioned only a link to rense and a reference to a hypothetical weapons plant.

                      There was no discussion (Mack's post went unanswered). There was no reference to a lab in Mack's post, and there was no reference to r4 or its basement in Mack's post.

                      http://enenews.com/photo-first-layer-of-cover-for-fukushima-unit-4/comment-page-1#comment-324019

                      I would hardly be surprised if kez attributed your post to PattieB. You had, after all, posted it as one of several diversionary replies to a post of mine requesting sprcific information from PattieB.

                      PattieB has not yet provided that information (last I looked) but she has now distanced herself from any "Yoichi" material.


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                    • NoNukes NoNukes

                      That is a lie, aigeezer, it is NOT true that "Specifically, you cited for "proof" a single post"

                      Right above this post you repeat is the the previous one where I copied the discussion of Sickputer and arclight referring to the "bombshell" of the Shimatsu article about the lab down with the flooding and the pipes, an area of buildings that is commonly referred to as the "basement," in English.

                      There are plenty more examples of references on Enenews to a lab in the basement at Fukushima, anyone who is interested, just type in "Yoichi Shimatsu" or "Yoichi Shimatsu basement" into the search box. Aigeezer was wrong about that, too.

                      NoNukes
                      January 17, 2013 at 1:03 am · Reply
                      aigeezer,

                      About the weapons lab, you claimed that:

                      "As far as I know, that has never been discussed here"

                      Anthony, Anne and I all remember differently, and when you look, there are many discussions, for example:

                      Sickputer
                      September 9, 2011 at 10:17 pm
                      Yoichi Shimatsu presents if true a Fuku bombshell account that will rock the foundation of Japanese government:

                      http://www.rense.com/general94/proof.htm

                      Report Comment

                      arclight
                      September 9, 2011 at 10:33 pm
                      nice qoute from your link

                      “What about the findings of lower ratios in samples gather earlier? The recent higher readings were probably based on either late releases from a fire-destroyed

                      http://enenews.com/discussion-thread-september-6-12-2011/comment-page-2


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                    • NoNukes NoNukes

                      Another freaking example:

                      Mark
                      October 29, 2011 at 1:21 pm
                      Funny how the “Conspiracy Theorists” were talking about secret bomb factories hidden in basements under Fukushima and people laughed. ( well I did ). Now a mainstream Japan paper has explained the lie. The re-processing plant which is supposed to be making fuel for reactors is re-processing PLUTONIUM, a key ingredient for nuclear weapons. Nobody will know what secret deals have been spun between US and Japan. But here we have mainstream evidence supporting Conspiricy theory of secret Japan nuclear weapons programmes. Happy thought. In my conversations with average people more and more lack confidence in anything any government says. Sadly they react to this by withdrawing from the political system.

                      http://enenews.com/mainichi-reveals-secret-japan-nuke-plant-country-latent-possession-nuclear-weapons


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                    • aigeezer aigeezer

                      NoNukes, there are no references to a lab in the basement of R4 in the Enenews material you cite.

                      The material just doesn't mention any words like "lab", "basement", "R4" or anything remotely similar to those words.

                      Sickputer's post refers to a "bombshell account" and links to rense. Arclight's post suggests he looked at the rense material and he asks a question about sample ratios. The rense link talks about nuke skulduggery at great length but makes no mention whatsoever of a lab under R4. The closest it comes is "The other 200 personnel stayed out of sight, possibly to dismantle an underground plutonium-extraction facility."

                      That's it – that's what you cited. I can't believe you think that somehow constitutes proof of the existence of a lab in the basement of the R4 building.

                      It provides no such proof. If you're thinking it provides proof of discussion of such a lab… that's quite a stretch. However, I never claimed such a discussion did not occur. Rather, I claimed I could not remember any such discussion. I still do not remember any such discussion, and I find the material you offer unconvincing.

                      Be that as it may – it's still a huge diversion from what I was/am requesting from PattieB, namely the page number of the picture in her 500 page pdf file (or a link to the picture) – the picture that she (not you) claims is evidence for the existence of a lab under R4.


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                    • NoNukes NoNukes

                      aigeezer,

                      Obviously, you were wrong about your statement that a hidden lab in the basement hasn't been discussed here before.

                      Here is Mark discussing it:
                      Mark
                      October 29, 2011 at 1:21 pm
                      Funny how the “Conspiracy Theorists” were talking about secret bomb factories hidden in basements under Fukushima and people laughed. ( well I did ).
                      http://enenews.com/mainichi-reveals-secret-japan-nuke-plant-country-latent-possession-nuclear-weapons

                      I thought that the link Sickputer put up was to same article, so that was my mistake, sorry about that. Yet, that article does talk about hidden weapons making at Fukushima, so honestly it is

                      I never posted anything as "proof" of a weapons making facility, that was a straw man of your own invention, aigeezer. You have littered this thread with so many straw men, it is standing room only.

                      A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


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                    • NoNukes NoNukes

                      CaptD
                      March 31, 2012 at 2:12 pm · Reply
                      Remember that "theory" that the Japanese had a secret NUKE lab under the Fukushima complex, perhaps that is what was in the "basement"; and if it was then that wold easily explain why TEPCO gets to call the shots in Japan since they can blackmail the Government because of it.
                      Secret Weapons Program Inside Fukushima Nuclear Plant?
                      http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24275
                      or
                      SECRET US-Israeli Nuke Weapons Transfers Led To Fukushima Blasts
                      http://is.gd/TTaK7L
                      http://enenews.com/forum-general-discussion-thread-nuclear-issues-mar-26-apr-2-2012


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                    • aigeezer aigeezer

                      NoNukes, somebody has to end this, I guess.

                      aigeezer out.


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  • VanneV anne

    Japan's Atomic Bomb
    Uploaded on Jan 27, 2012
    “Using once-secret Japanese wartime documents, this special offers evidence that Japan had world-class nuclear physicists, access to uranium ore, and cyclotrons to process it. They devised an innovative way to deliver the bombs using 400-foot long Sen Toku submarines, capable of carrying and launching airplanes. Most startling, just six days after Hiroshima, Japan tested its own atomic device on a small island 20 miles off the Korean coast! The sobering conclusion is that Japan may have been just weeks behind the U.S. in the race for the bomb.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESoFyHEMFro


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  • VanneV anne

    Japan upgrades Rokkasho Uranium Enrichment Facility efficiency 400 to 500 percent
    “After a warm-up operation, the centrifuges — each capable of processing enrichment four to five times more efficiently than a previous one — will start producing uranium products around March, the company said.
    “Reportedly there are about 3,000 tons of highly radioactive used nuclear fuel stored in Rokkasho at current, that could overheat and catch fire if the cooling systems fail. Japanese radio reported on March 13 that 600 liters of water leaked at the Rokkasho spent fuel pool after the devastating earthquake and tsunami.…”
    http://enformable.com/2011/12/japan-upgrades-rokkasho-uranium-enrichment-facility-efficiency-400-to-500-percent/


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