Experts: Fukushima plume headed to West Coast isn’t just going to pass by like smoke, plant continues to spew into ocean; Pacific to be full of contamination, it’s a gigantic experiment — Host: Amazing how many people are in denial (VIDEO)

Published: November 15th, 2013 at 2:51 pm ET
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Coast to Coast AM with John B. Wells, Nov. 9, 2013:

At 7:30 in

Arnie Gundersen, Fairewinds Chief Engineer: Unlike a cloud of smoke that passes over, Fukushima continues to spew cesium into the ocean and strontium too, I have to add. So the net effect is that the spigot hasn’t been turned off yet, and we’re contaminating the Pacific Ocean in the process […] It’s not heavier than water, it’s very, very small particles that sort of float almost like dust in air, so that it is moving in the entire water column across the Pacific. […] We’ve got contamination of the aquatic chain. […] the top of the food chain animals will likely become contaminated.

At 2:15:30 in

Steven Starr, Director of the Clinical Laboratory Science Program at the University of Missouri, Senior Scientist at Physicians for Social Responsibility: We’re looking at the whole Pacific is full of this stuff, and we have no idea how it’s going to build up. It’s a gigantic experiment, what’s going to happen.

John B. Wells, Host: Isn’t it amazing how many people are in denial about this? [...] This is a problem, and it’s not going away.

Full broadcast for subscribers here – Now available on YouTube here

Published: November 15th, 2013 at 2:51 pm ET
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105 comments

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105 comments to Experts: Fukushima plume headed to West Coast isn’t just going to pass by like smoke, plant continues to spew into ocean; Pacific to be full of contamination, it’s a gigantic experiment — Host: Amazing how many people are in denial (VIDEO)

  • Nick

    I've been to denial. It's in Egypt.

    How many people do you know in your day to day lives that actually grasp reality on an atomic level?

    There ain't many. Them atoms and sub-atomic particles are pretty damned small.

    Kind a like our collective human consciousness these days, pretty small, almost non-existent.

    To those of you on the West Coast: Go to the sea side, look at the water crash upon the shore, feel the sand beneath your feet. Listen for the cry of the gulls, watch for the frolicking sea creatures, look for the strands of kelp washing ashore. Smell the mist.

    Who amongst you can fathom what your senses (maybe) are telling you?

    Photographs or videos can't preserve what our senses feel.

    Hope you are all well and not visiting Egypt (see top).


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    • nedlifromvermont

      it really is, as the writer said before, incomprehensible …

      peace Nick!


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    • unincredulous unincredulous

      Too bad film photography has pretty much been replaced by digital. When people's film gets messed up, they get pissed. I used to take so many pictures out in Washington State. It was so beautiful. Salmon jumping in Olympia, fisherman accidentally snagging sea lions, trout fishing, fog rolling on the river in the morning. If I were there now, I don't think I would want to breathe the fog. Crying shame.


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  • pattersonp

    http://bit.ly/mPyscg >>> lol Arnie Gundersen…

    The more I read about this guy the more concerned I am that he is being quoted as the go-to expert on this. He keeps repeating these go-to statements in front of audiences to wow and dazzle them and pretend he has some magic ball full of answers…

    He is literally fast becoming the Alex Jones of Fukushima, and everyone knows Alex Jones is a big fear mongering corporate joke of his former activist self. Spewing his opinions of something happening 5000 miles away with his insider info and/or sources and/or random trips to tokyo…

    I'm sure Mochizuki from FukuDiary could make the same statements and he is only been educating since 3/11 about nuclear.


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    • Bones Bones

      He has proven himself over and over. He always speaks in a mannered tone and in realistic terms. I tend to trust his opinions due to his first-hand experience and his offense of the industry now. That takes guts and obviously something is wrong when one leaves an industry to speak truth to it. To me, perhaps not you but many others too, he has proven and earned his label as "Expert," but that doesn't mean he is always perfect or some soothsayer who can see things other humans can't. lol


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    • Socrates

      I disagree with your assessment of Arnie Gundersen.

      What specifically are the areas of disagreement you have with him, what are your qualifications in nuclear engineering, including, education, training and experience?

      Unless you express the basis of your criticism of his professional opinions, you are simply making an ad hominem attack.

      Arnie is a friend of mine.


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      • vicky13 vicky13

        Fairwinds and Arnie put this out yesterday,, I am reposting it,,

        http://fairewinds.org/podcast/remove-tepco-removing-fuel


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      • pattersonp

        So him and his wife doesn't profit off his anti-nuclear stance by fear-mongering people about disasters, especially Fukushima?

        That website was proof enough… All facts were corroborated with simple Google searches.

        He was licensed to run a 100W generator that generated enough heat as a lightbulb but he apparently is an expert of zeolite encapsulation and transport vectors of the Pacific Ocean.

        This guy can talk all he wants but its pure stuff out of textbooks and applies to any situation. Just redirected for Fukushima for his personal pockets.


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        • Socrates

          Pattersonp,

          Arnie Gundersen qualifies to testify as an expert witness in courts of law. He has the education, degrees, and experience. I have conducted many failure analyses for
          purposes of presentation at trial. I have worked with many engineers and have a very good basis for judging credibility of forensic witnesses. One of my metalurgical forensic investigations was selected for presentation at the Conference of Material Failure Engineers in Vienna out of thousands of applicants.

          Your attack on Arnie Gundersen's credibilty is misplaced and misguided. Since I have known Arnie, my respect for him has increased during almost three years of following his work.


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        I also think highly of Arnie and Maggie Gundersen, not to be redundant, but to each their own. They have been sued by the nuclear industry and have really endured a lot thus I'm surprised he is telling the truth as we know how ruthless the nuclear industry priesthood can truly be. I for one have been following Arnie since TMI and owe him a lot of gratitude for his tenacious efforts.


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    • lickerface lickerface

      5000 miles away huh? You obviously own no Geiger counter and are biased in regards to who you "feel" are the experts and who aren't. I assume you also think those who can detect elevated levels of radionuclides with their own equipment lavk credibility too?

      What is YOUR purpose here to dissuade humans (who are concerned about prolonging life to see their grandchildren) from obtaining information from individuals like Gunderson? He's not some lobbied shill! If you actually knew this industry rather than be told by your boss to come here and troll, you would not introduce yourself saying that garbage. Even without Arnie to tell you in laymen terms what is going on, you fail to recognize that even Tepco's ADMITTED figures for radiation detection outside the reactor structures does not at all paint a pretty picture for our food chain.

      You come across as a man who might appear to be with "science", but you state nothing real. Even science sides with Arnie and concerned members here. The truly ironic thing is that the people in denial quoted above exactly describes you! Fear mongering is a modern wacko term created by those like yourself who are scared and don't know how to cope with this harsh reality. How else would you like information of impending doom to be presented to you? It doesn't seem like unnecessary dwar mongering to me. It's just the facts.

      Go back and tell your boss that you've been called as the lousiest troll to enter here. Try…


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    • VanneV anne

      Actually Arnie IS an expert and his statements about Fukushima have been very conservative and measured. The situation at Fukushima is even worse than what he says. You are either in denial or have an uneucated, pro-nuke agenda. Or maybe you know how horrible it really is, and you don't want people to know it. It may be confortable to be in the majority. But when the majority learns the truth too late, your comments will come to haunt you. The majority will learn the truth much, much faster than you think. An ad hominem attack is all the pro-nuke industry can muster. There are no facts on their side.

      There are many, many excess deaths in the US and the background levels of radiation are 2 to 10 times higher than before 3/11. And the Pacific Ocean is already dead and the spike in cancer and heart attacks in Japan and other maladies is already indicative of the dire emergency in Japan. The true amount of still born and deformed children will never be known.


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      • unincredulous unincredulous

        I am not scientist, but I like Mr. Arnie Gunderson. I have come to trust what he says at least as him being an honest person. I'd say I agree that he has measured responses and is not being a fear monger. Heck, the other day I saw a video where he says that he would eat pacific ocean fish, he may have said he would be careful about it. I forget exactly. At this point, if anyone else said that I think I would just agree that we disagree.


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    • redred

      I have seen your comments here and on other threads and there is no question that you are a troll.
      But what you say merely demonstrates your ignorance and malice.


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    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      You can keep your insurance if you want too. Now there was an expert statement for you! Wake up!

      We live in a world of fools… :(


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    • Jebus Jebus

      It is interesting to watch someone who comes here seeking answers, who is not a shill or troll, evolve.
      After reading Pattersonp's comments from the start, I see the evolution of conscious awareness from denial to the minds acceptance of the truth. Fukushima is not about Arnie Gundersen.
      You will get there Pattersonp. I detect that you will become the advocate for the truth that all here, have evolved into.
      You are headstrong and this is good.
      You are flying through the stages very fast…


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    • Patterson. Arnie is the only industry spokesman speaking out. His moderation speaks more loudly then Alex Jones. Although Mr Alex has his place and I would probably let him watch over my kids for maybe an hour. But not you Pattersonp. You are a troll.


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    • Salemone Salemone

      Troll warning…ignore this post.


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    • We Not They Finally

      pattersonp, I think you misjudge Gundersen. And especially since there are SO FEW nuclear experts like him, who have been persecuted as whistleblower and he really does his best in his own measured way (it's just his style), you need to lay off. He's been out there since Day One. And maybe he doesn't go as far as people like, but he is always constructive and he always educates. He said that after TMI, he was told lies himself to tell to the public by the nuclear industry and as soon as 3-11 happened, he resolved to handle it completely differently. And he's a clearing house for people who may otherwise have no voice. You need to SUPPORT him. He's an honest man who is doing everything that he can.


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  • own_quality

    I have tried to talk about this to at least 20 close friends and family and they are not at all interested. Even a couple of guys that are conspiracy theory types couldn't care less and think I'm just FOS. It's actually really strange. My fellow gun nut friend who lives in LA and was constantly concerned about San Onofre and from whom I have heard nothing but fear of losing 2nd amendment rights fro years… even he doesn't want to talk about it!


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  • own_quality

    The same people that don't want to hear about Fukushima also have no interest in discussing the ongoing collapse of the $US. I think when you are dealing with such catastrophic life-changing events, many people must remain in denial or they would have to jump off a bridge or something.


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    • pattersonp

      I'm gonna tattoo this on some your foreheads:

      “If the problem has a solution, worrying is pointless, in the end the problem will be solved. If the problem has no solution, there is no reason to worry, because it can’t be solved.”

      Ignorance is bliss in all of this thats for sure. Going around telling people some plant is leaking 5000 miles away is pretty silly. Some things are better not talked about, and fukushima radiation is definitely on of them considering there is 0 any of us can do any any radiation ever.

      Also, Fukushima is not the first, or last source of radiation… so I don't know why you are pretending it is going to directly strangle you in your sleep.


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      • Bones Bones

        That is an attitude of my enemy is too much bigger than me and I'll just let him whoop me instead of prepare and intelligently attack the situation. I don't believe in giving up. Sure, most don't have the money to due HUGE things, but small things we all do add to our goal of a nuclear fission free planet and honesty concerning all releases and areas of high radiation that are concealed world-wide. Many accomplishments have occurred whether through luck, a higher being, or perhaps the work of many dedicated people. Enenews is not the hub of the nuclear is stupid crowd. Notice all the weird comments lately? Maybe Enenews is getting major, major exposure?

        Can you refute anything Dr. Gunderson has said here?


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        • pattersonp

          its not about refuting or proving. I could care less if its 1300 Bq/KG or 200 Bq/KG in a child's thyroid. it makes me incredibly angry about the children and persons exposed, its absolutely horrific to put it in simple terms.

          its about estbalishing a set of rules and crtieria for assesing his words, mochizuki words, whoever else. THere is obviously not many people who are on this, and I really really applaud Arnie for his work. I have read his site since 3/11.

          He definitely has some GREAT, GREAT information that none of us could have provided. Especially his early Tokyo samples, and his take on the containment, and alllll the education about BWR. He is great for that absolutely…

          But he says something and everyone listens. Its just not right, misinformation is the worst enemy in all of this as we ALL know. And quoting ARnie every other day is extremely dangerous since he is getting second and third-hand reports in many cases. This dubious information is then used by people here to reinforce their own paranoia and then spew it onto others.


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          • pattersonp

            Hopefully you see my genuine concern behind any questionable comments I have made on here. Did not mean to personal attack at all… I just want to get the most reliable information so we can spread a good, true word and not possibly false or misleading information… Especially with TEPCO at the filter.


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            • lickerface lickerface

              Even with Tepco as the filter, the info even they have reported is absolutely shocking. Trust us that Arnie has no agenda like the media which are owned by GE. What you've got to figure out is who you'd rather have information from: mass media outlets or Gunderson?

              It really doesn't even take the words of Arnie for us to connect the dots about what is going on here. He's saying what we knew years ago, so I'd think our progress here is on the right track, especially with someone of his prestige to confirm our own findings/drawn-conclusions.


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            • Grampybone Grampybone

              "We and I and Grampybone been readin your comments." In the scientific community information collaboration is more essential to problem solving than observing a single source always. If you don't want to use Arnie's reporting than you can always check Christopher Busby and Helen Caldicott's estimations. Gundersen is reserved and calculated as not to give inaccurate information. Sometimes it feels like he's not saying enough. "We and I and Grampybone are still waitin' on Gundy's containment report." Been sayin since day 1 that containment was breached. 2.8 years later…VINDICATED!


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            • HoTaters

              pattersonnp, mean what you say and say what you mean. Then it will be clear to all.


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          • We Not They Finally

            pattersonp, THEN AGAIN, since nearly NO voices reach the mainstream media, then let us YES, pay close attention to Arnie Gundersen and any other expert willing to be so diligent and to spend so much time educating people. The harm done is by shutting it out, not by welcoming it in.

            The problem seems to be with YOU, and the name of the problem is DENIAL. It is anything but "silly" to be concerned about "leaking" 5,000 miles away. That you think that this is "leaking" — not gushing and spewing ongoing, exponentially, increasingly contaminating the whole Pacific Ocean — that in itself is DENIAL on your part. You are in DENIAL if you do not at least see that much. And if you do not acknowledge that there is NO CONTAINMENT.

            Look. It's just that most everyone who posts here does not want to be dragged into the denial hole with you. That's all. It's not personal against you. You just need to relate to that, YES, the whole world is on its way to contamination. Then you would not be calling genuine dire concern about what is happening 5,000 miles away "silly.' That's just an insult.


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            • The most important statement here is "there is NO CONTAINMENT" at Fukushima. Why not? Why haven't they built a huge dome over the entire facility? Why aren't they filtering the air before it is released into the atmosphere? Why aren't they filtering the water? Why aren't they running it through zeolite or some other mineral?

              There are potential solutions to REDUCE the contamination leaving the area and we ought to do them ASAP. The excuse that "it's too expensive" won't last. The longer the crisis lasts the more expensive it becomes. Get on with the job at hand!


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            • unincredulous unincredulous

              Yeah. Gotta back WNTF up on this.A leak of this nuclear toxin is a big deal. I read that plutonium is like a million times worse than anything else. If you don't want your kids eating lead paint, just imagine it being a million times worse than that. Plutonium is that bad, and even worse than cesium. A piece of cesium the size of a dime can make a square mile uninhabitable. So, thing of one drop of plutonium is as bad as a million drops of cyanide. That's conjecture, but I don't think a piece of cyanide the size of a dime can make a square mile uninhabitable. Take a look at all those radioactive tanks of water, Patterson, multiply that X 1,000,000 and imagine that they are full of cyanide. Think some fishies might not look so good to you.


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      • nedlifromvermont

        @pattersonp … I'm not reassured …

        but I like your first quote … I will stop worrying about Fukushima now … but I will not stop heckling GE

        peace …


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      • Socrates

        Pattersonp,

        We are justifiably frightened by three core melts and the vast quantity of rods that could go.critical. Sure, there are other dangers in life but isn't irrelevant?

        Ignorance does not help solve the problem. Telco has been untruthful, too.


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      • scottyji scottyji

        Thanks for sharing your opinions, pattersonp.
        Above all Gunderson shares primarily valuable information – not opinion – gleaned from his work experience in the nuclear industry. No other nuclear engineer has offered to refute his information in this forum. They would be welcome to do so, I believe, for the sake of debate.


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        Oh so true ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise. In fact I wish I were like those in denial but when you factor in all of the changes are planet is currently experiencing you really must be ignorant. Climate extremes not only on Earth but our neighboring planets, Pole shift, magnetic field weakening, species becoming extinct daily, sinkholes, earthquakes, volcanoes, Fukushima, etc. It's hard to ignore if one is paying attention but many are more interested in watching inane TV shows which is an escape, I guess because there truly is no solution to most of these issues.


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      • HoTaters

        Your comments are disorganized and illogical. Just what is it you're really trying to say?


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    • Usefulbreather

      Cognitive Dissonance.


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    • oregongreen oregongreen

      Remember… All we can do is plant the seed… I know that's cliche, however everyone's destiny is their own to choose.

      As Robert Frost said: "I am not a teacher,but an awakener"

      That's what I've learned about talking to people about the geo-political scene, the endless scandals, Fukushima…

      I'm living my life to the best of my ability to live not in fear, but to live informed, which is a choice I feel comes from the deepest part of my being. I could easily ignore and live blindly like the masses of sheep, however I chose not and will not.

      Keep doing what your doing :)


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      • lickerface lickerface

        Agreed. Since I know more about our potential destiny, I've started spending more time with my wife and kids and less on things that don't matter. Having information allows us to make choices about how we can live the rest of our life, whether it be over years from now or next week. Anyway, you all have to admit this disaster is somewhat fascinating to try understanding (magic?), and that desire for knowledge trumps the fear of death. I feel that the audience Arnie is directed at is NOT the sheeple (who still are unable to be influenced by any sort of fear mongering). I've only heard scientific minds mention him. He's not out to change the world… in my opinion, he's simply giving informed data from the inside, where he once was. How is he not the perfect source of truth?!? It appears some people are not sharp on determining how credible sources can be. It does require a brain without the -washing. I work in an industry which witnesses blatant lies and propaganda by big media outlets, and seeing how they twist and lie about our own arena, how on earth would we want to believe them on other topics?

        Denial = the failure to recognize the greatest source of truth.

        I love that the topic of denial somehow attracted someone in denial to illustrate how they, with great conviction, are in denial! Point proven right there… it doesn't get any more obvious than that.


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        • Au Au

          "Since I know more about our potential destiny, I've started spending more time with my wife and kids and less on things that don't matter. Having information allows us to make choices about how we can live the rest of our life, whether it be over years from now or next week."

          That's right.


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      • maybesomeday

        Before enlightenment, one chops wood and carries water. After enlightenment, one chops wood and carries water. I have heard the Zen way of life summarized this way. Acceptance? Denial? Understanding?


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  • weeman

    Pattersonp I would like you to think about something, if I may.
    I and most posters on this site have a very rudimentary understanding of nuclear physics and even at that level of understanding, we recognize that at the present time there is no solution and the best we can hope for is mitigation, does that mean of the seven billion people on this plant we can not find answers?
    we also know the potential of the nuclear fuel load at the site and have done the math and it is a potential ELE, I do not think it will turn out that way, but it is only a matter of time of we don't shut nuclear plants down now.
    My biggest worry at the moment is the contamination of the pacific ocean and bio accumulation right up the food chain, don't you think that your government should be protecting and informing you, as it is having a direct effect on your welfare, now and in the future and this really disturbs me, I have a fundamental right to life and liberty in a safe environment.
    Please use a open mind and try to look at both sides of a story to find the moral of the story.


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  • Nick

    Why is it that humans bash the messenger and don't look deeper into an issue?

    Because it's easier.

    I don't know Mr. Gundersen, but he knows nuclear clear, far and away from the rest of us mere mortals. If he's worried, so should we be.

    But the topic is about the radioactive crap hitting the shores of the USA.

    I challenge any west-coaster to come on this thread and report what you are seeing first haned with regards to ecosystem distress, be it land or water.

    Or are all the west-coasters mum? Stifled? In denial? Too much into their smart-phones to have a clue what's going on?

    It so happens that my second born son lives in the vicinity of Portland, Oregon. Believe me, he's aware.

    I can type pixels all I want on this forum, but I know it will do nothing, not one iota, to slow down the toxic slew in the air and water that is arriving on the West Coast.

    All I can hope for is one soul to realize how dire all this is. For it maybe that one soul that can wake up the masses.

    Me? Arnie has done that. Thanks.


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    • J.

      If one wants to see a truly remarkable commentary on public ignorance, one can watch some of the YouTube videos of a fellow named Mark Dice interviewing folks on the streets of SoCal. Dice is able to get many to sign petitions supporting the most outrageous mock objectives.

      It's horrible black comedy. Many people really are horribly ignorant about basic facts. They truly do not know many things. Education is crucial. I can only fall back on the old literacy education slogan — each one teach one.

      I think the Gundersen's education campaign is first rate. I'm so grateful for their work. And it doesn't have to cost a penny; one can donate if one wishes.


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      • dharmasyd dharmasyd

        I subscribe to Gundersen. I felt so much gratitude toward his and Maggie's work that I wrote him a letter telling him I would like to donate, but as a fragile, disabled senior, I was unable to do so. To my great astonishment he wrote me back, thanking me for my continued interest and supporting my membership in enenews. He is a truly decent human being and has the kind of moral consciousness we need to be able to pull ourselves through this.
        Thank you for reading and hearing. And a great big thank you to Arnie and Maggie Gundersen.


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      • HoTaters

        Dice's videos are hilarious, yet sad, at the same time. So many people are abymsmally ignorant. They'll go along with extremely absurd comments/concepts, just to avoid appearing to be uninformed, or in order to gain approval.


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    • Kassandra

      In the summer of 2012 the hermit crabs at Wind and Sea Beach in La Jolla San Diego were VERY greatly diminished in number from previous years' populations.

      I've been going to that beach and those tide pools almost every summer since the early 1980s.

      Even my kids noticed the collapse of the hermit crab population the summer of 2012.

      The cockroaches in my desert oasis backyard disappeared in late July 2011 and have never returned, nor have the June bugs. For years I tried using organic pesticides to control those roaches because they always tried to come into the house. Fukushima wiped them out; there was no pesticide spraying that occurred around us during that time that could have done it.

      We had heavy rains March 18-20 here in Phoenix. Scientists in Long Beach found the kelp very contaminated with radio-iodine from this same 'wet deposition.'

      See this collection of animal anomalies:
      http://majiasblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/animal-anomalies-is-fukushima-daiichi.html

      The radiation impacted (and will continue to impact) ecosystems and animal populations that were already stressed by habitat loss and contamination. Whales were toxic waste when they died before Fukushima.

      Now, with the ongoing poisoning of the ocean and atmosphere, we can expect to see many more precipitous collapses.

      Let us hope that we are not among them, although it would probably be better for the rest of Earth's biosphere.


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      • Michele

        Kassandra, Like yourself, I have noticed the disappearance and changes in the environment and the damaged ecology that have been happening outside my backdoor. There were no small birds visiting my feeders during the warm Summer months and none now since the Winter weather is quickly arriving. No bees, no Monarch butterflies, the entertainment of lightening bugs against the evergreens did not take place, and some of the trees have needed to be cut down because they have died, and it is happening all over my location in the Northern part of the Lower Peninsular of Michigan. I have found toads that are not normal coloring; white, orange, and yellow. This past week our daytime temperatures have not risen past 25 degrees and lower in the night, yet I have clouds of mosquitos when I look out of any window. I read about the lack of sardines, the death of starfish, the beaching of Walrus….I do not need an Arnie or a Iori to tell me that the Earth is dying, although I do follow them. I am aware of the thawing of the methane that has been frozen for 10,000 years and the massive amounts that are entering the oceans. But, it is the truth that surrounds me that concerns me. And of more concern is the lack of awareness of the people around me and their lack of interest.


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    • We Not They Finally

      Nick, speaking of Portland, we looked up the government radnet for Albuquerque, where we live. And it was spiking up to 500 CPM — really high! But then we noted that there are NO monitors on for Portland, Seattle, Honolulu, and many other cities, which may mean that it is spiking over 1,000 CPM (that's as high as the monitor goes) or that the overall range is just to scary to print.

      It would be good if you could get some figures on that. So much info is being withheld that should be at the public's fingertips.


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      • Wyakin Wyakin

        WNTF-I don't think your interpretation of the Portland data is correct. I have been periodically downloading EPA radnet data for several municipalities on the west coast of the US. Portland's gross beta count for some time has been "0".

        Footnotes on Radnet-"0" values means data is not available.

        Reasonable proxy is a city 81 miles south of Portland called Corvallis.

        Like everywhere else readings have been high, and appear in waves. Not in the 1,000's, though.

        Peace.


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      • HoTaters

        WNTF, another thing you may observe is missing Beta data, or gamma data, when the results are trending upward in a particular locale.

        I live in Sacramento, and there is NO Beta data for the period since early September, when radiation levels really started going up here — as displayed on the NETC site.

        Have noticed RadNet has "technical issues" or fails to post data every time levels in a particular area get really high. I think they do it on purpose.

        Have observed lots of their little "tricks" since 2011. Like posting the same data for two different cities ….


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        • HoTaters

          There is also no Beta data for Bakersfield, CA, for the same period. Also a Central Valley city, where Beta levels sometimes get very, very high.


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          • Sparky Sparky

            HoTaters, Yes! I've been following the RadNet monitors for only a few months (since July, I think) but I've noticed that when West Coast/CA Central Valley rads are rising over a period of days and/or they spike upward, those RadNet monitors often stop posting. Sometimes the blackout goes on for days. Most recently, Fresno and Bakersfield were really, really high–and then–nothing: off-line. It happens enough where it does seem purposeful. Really frustrating! I hadn't noticed the duplicate postings for different cities, though. I'm dismayed, but not surprised after all. Very sad.


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  • Ron

    Question: Since the guys who created this mess can't seem to figure out how to fix it, how about using supercomputers like Big Blue to come up with an answer? Pt their potential to finding a solution to this crisis.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/14/ibm_opens_watson_to_internet/

    Instead of using these beasts to design better WMDs or figure out how better to invade our privacy, or how to crush opponents at Jeopardy, how about something CONSTRUCTIVE for a change? How about designing alternative energy systems that are super effective, super efficient and super cheap?


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    • tarpus

      See: Nikola Tesla. Fun stuff here: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla
      Tesla new that energy was everywhere and within everything. Energy is never lost, it is only transferred. If I were to take an empty tube and vacuum all the air out of it, cool it to within 1 trillionth of a degree of absolute zero, I still could not take all of the energy out of the tube. It would take all of the available energy in the universe to cool it to absolute zero.
      These technologies have been sqoooshed already. As long as the mighty dollar is King, you will see no humanity. Read "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by the late great Jack Herer…hemp is one of the best producers of products and fuel in the world, suppressed by the money hogs of course.


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  • SadieDog

    When all of this gets you really down, just remember … One day the sun will either explode of die out and none of this will matter. ;)


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  • maybesomeday

    @ Nick. I live in southern Oregon about an hour drive from the Coast. After reading the disturbing story of the yachtsman's voyage from Osaka to S.F. I actually drove to the Coast to just check things out. I went to Winchester Bay, popular for crabbing, salmon fishing, camping, and sand dune ATV's. I have been there many times before and also lived in Coos Bay (an hour south) for 2 1/2 years. At Winchester Bay I talked to a guy who's been coming up from California for the last 6 yrs and always previously caught his limit of Dungeness. Not this time. I asked him, "aren't there usually a lot of sea gulls around? He looked around and said, "now that you mention it…" Then I went to the open beach south of the jetty. There was not a single shorebird of any kind on the beach that I could see. There was one! gull perched on the jetty rocks. A flock of 6 or 8 gulls then flew over…I guessed they were the ones I had seen earlier clustered around a freshwater rivulet that flowed into the bay. This happened in October on a typical gray and gloomy day at the coast about 4pm. Maybe it was just a down day at the coast.


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    • Pete

      I have observed the lack of birds on high rad days as well. I am east of seattle and take the bus to and from work, so I have a lot of time to observe. After the typhoons hit japan and threw particulate fallout across the pacific (just my opinion fact trolls, I dont have 2 studies and a thesis to prove typhoons picked up particles), we had several weeks of fog, which is very unusual here. Also a side note apparently large tritium releases also cause fog but meh, no avoiding that.

      During that time I also noticed 0 birds anywhere, no crows, no seagulls, no birds chirping in the distance, none, for at least a week as I didnt notice in the beginning. I asked several people around me if they observed this as well, of course everyone said yes Ive seen birds,they just couldnt point any out or hear any.

      netc had been in the green for 3 days before I saw any birds again (the fog had been gone for longer than that), and I now take the birds into account as I try to avoid as much radiation as possible.


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    • Salemone Salemone

      @maybesomeday,

      I know the area…been camping at Bullards Beach area for the last 22 years. 5 years ago you could wait for low tide and get your dinner in mussels in less than an hour. This last August…I could see nothing on the rocks. No clam air holes in the sand, no 'sand bugs'. Nothing. Scares the hell out of me. I live an hour from the coast in the Central area. God help us all.


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    • amberlight amberlight

      I mentioned the lack of sea birds recently on another thread. When I was in Mendocino (northern California) about a week ago, as I was eating lunch on a bluff overlooking the ocean I realized that there were no gulls nearby waiting to snap up my crumbs. As I walked around the headlands and on the beach I noticed a total of TWO gulls (assuming they were not the same bird) and a few other land and sea birds. It was the absence of gulls that caught my attention. NEVER before have I been to an ocean beach on either coast where there were not flocks of gulls hovering overhead or strutting around looking for a handout. Next time I'll go to Noyo Harbor and ask the fishermen about their catch and what they have noticed about the birds.


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Fact:
    We were hit with a radioactive plume here on the west coast march/april 2011 and thereafter round and round the earth.

    Just look around you. The local newspaper, the obits. 30, 40, 50 year olds dropping. Healthy people. No real explainations. The front pages of our local newspapers regularly have articles about childhood leukemia. There were two this AM. Many more than ever. Pay attention. It is right there, staring you in the face.

    I have reported before on St Vincents childrens ward with many children born with thyroid issues. Born with. I have coworkers who's wives are nurses that are commenting on this. Portland had a local TV reporter who now works as a researcher for St V's, who was fired from a local news station for convincing the station editor to air his report on the childrens thyroid issues. It was aired once and he was fired. This is a first hand account of children who are having to go back in for care after being born with thyroid issues. This is from a father who has a child that returned to a one year reunion at the hospital for his childs issues during birth, unrelated? to the fallout. He was born before 3/11. This father and mother also spoke with a head nurse off to the side about this issue. They are very worried about the uptic in childrens issues at birth. There were over 40 very young children in the childrens unit with thyroid issues.



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    • Jebus Jebus

      The American Medical Association came to a consensus, urging the administration to test ALL food for contamination.

      Now we have the washout of Fukushima in the Ocean here.

      How much more does one need to see that this is a serious contamination issue?

      A "don't worry, be happy" attitude will only compromise your health, your childrens health and their future.

      Change must happen. Ignorance will not beget change.
      Anarchy? No, that will only serve the criminals purpose.
      Personal awareness and networking is the seed for change.
      Anyone who looks up from their fondleslab and notices can not deny the truth.
      Anyone who looks up and calls a spade a joker is part of the problem.
      Absolutely, you can live fully and still spread the truth.
      Live, love, laugh with it, not at it.
      This is not a dream, it is the nightmare of reality.
      This world will never be the same, ever.

      I wish every one of you well, enjoy life, you are all worth it.
      More than you know.


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  • babbo dorian babbo dorian

    Please everybody…..
    I strongly suggest not to get against anybody.
    Let's keep ourselves focused.
    I have learned a lot of Arnie, and many others even in this forum.
    Of course de can disagree respectully but….. it is a matter of comon sense and get the best of everybody/everything.
    Things alone have become ver y difficult for everybody…… let's share info and opinions…
    De all need that….
    Peace for all


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  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    Good to see people talk back & forth, it helps every one to open their minds to the facts we have never been told by the people who we pay to tell us the truth & to help us know what is the right ways to protect ourselves from all threats, no matter what it may be. ( I think we call these government Agencies put in Place to keep in the know, at Least that's what I thought we Paid them to do!)
    What have we learned? For the truth we have to turn to the internet to get the truth! The government covered up the truth, thanks to Hatrick Penry's work, putting together http://www.plumegate.wordpree.com 'Something Wicked Come Our Way' has made it easy for you to follow what the NRC said & to whom from even before the event took place in Japan. I am thankfull to many who have been on this from day one & none are from any of the MSM. Why? The MSM has not been aboout the news for many decades, they are the corporate propaganda machine.

    I go to fairewinds often, but also I want differnt views. Kevin Branch has taught me a lot, I visit http://www.fukushimafacts.com 4 or 5 times daily, enenews daily & so many more where experts who have been treating the children for the many effects of living in Belarus & Ukraine. It's heart breaking to see how they suffer & those supporting the nuclear complex with lies on the true deaths from Chernobyl. So it seems the supporters of nuke power has more funds to silent those who speak againt them & they use it in ways that are passed evil.


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  • The sooner everyone realises what fuckups we have as political leaders the better.


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  • Emmanuel Truthseeker Emmanuel Truthseeker

    Thank you Mister Gunderson for caring enough about something everyone on earth should be deeply concerned about but, alas, most are not; and lots of people think you are merely a fear monger and a crack pot. I know what that feels like. I just shrug it off as you are doing, no doubt. You know you are correct; the nuclear disaster at the Dai-ichi plant is a total life changing catastrophe and we should all be very wary of the food we eat, the air, the rain, the water, the dairy products… now, if we want to live some years longer; those of us in the northern hemisphere. There is no mitigating the horror beginning to hit the west coast with increasing ferocity. A friend of mine, who lived in Powell River, British Columbia reported that friends of hers there have reported tumors. Apparently those people were healthy, alternative living types; people who know how to take care of their health. Alas, they live on the west coast of NORAM and now have tumors to prove Fukushima; the disaster having come to be known by the name of the prefecture where the plant is located, has actually begun its dirty work 5000 miles away. Fukushima is day by day adding more and more 'invisible' poisons to what has already become a toxic soup of dead things. There are nearly 2000 different isotopes which apparently are spicing up the mix. Does anyone have any idea what any of those many other isotopes will do to living things? Nada. The entire nuclear industry is of Lucifer and must end.


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  • Alpha1

    As my youngest son cries that he can never go to the pacific ocean and how man has killed the future of life, I have to cry with him because he is 100% correct if any time to believe in the rapture it is now ohhhh lord come and take our children before they have to suffer for our stupidity. See nothing has happened so get real and stand up and join us for the fight of the rights for human life!!!

    http://www.gdr.org and http://www.radiationsalerts.blogspot.com and help us to find a cure and a way to stop the murderers in office.


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  • Alpha1

    Wah wah wah cry cry bicker bicker stand with us and grow a pair!!!
    We are all in the same place unless you have no want to let your children live??? My children must know learn and understand what I have been given knowledge not a vale over the eye, we are human and there will be soon, none left, and if there are it will be a very desolate place without much life to support any other. EZEKIEL ring a bell. (Apocalypse) man made this and will die by it even those in the highest of places may be in the lowest now to protect themselves but no matter they will die just as we will from the poison the lies they utter and just for being the dark beings they are!!!!!


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  • Sparky Sparky

    OK, I nearly vomited when I watched this too-cool, feel-good pro-nuke piece on the radioactive contamination in the US from the Fukushima disaster: http://msnvideo.msn.com/?channelindex=4&from=en-us_msnhpvidmod#/video/f349a074-91c4-42d8-9225-8398a3a4bbf5. Yeah, we got it a long time ago that someone took the map out of context: already been corrected many times over. But that misappropriated map, likely a heafty $um from the nuclear industry, and a LOT of mis-information form the basis for this guy's "no worries" for U.S.(read, "us")propaganda. But–hey–really too bad for those Japanese! (read, "them") 'Good thing we got a whole Pacific Ocean between us and that Japanese radiation. [sarc] This clown act would be funny except I'm afraid many people–young people–will believe it.

    But not everyone! I gave a presentation re: Fuku and other radiation threats to about 25 US West Coast students yesterday. While clearly troubled, they REALLY understood the need for good, UNBIASED information and a plan of action to protect themselves, others and the environment. I was invited to speak to another student group next week. Personally, I feel we MUST find ways to help people understand and act. We need to help people find ways–however great or small–to live and heal in this contaminated world. I'm still holding out hope.


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    • HoTaters

      Sparky, re: the MSN "news" video, so much for "journalism." I'd call that guy an infotainment expert. "D-News" as in "D" is for "Dumbo" news. What a load of crapola, pardon my use of the vernacular. What an ignoramus. He has no idea what he's talking about. He even made the statement a new nuclear power plant is being built in the UK, then said, "so at least we're moving forward. But what do YOU think?" Then he urged people to go onto Twitter to weigh in with their views.

      Generation Y's answer to Geraldo Rivera, I suppose. Oh well, I wouldn't want to contradict this young, HIP ETHNIC JOUNALIST (oh, a person of color, how perfectly politically correct) who's obviously got it goin' on and rocks his hip slung jeans and unshaven face, now would I? No, couldn't do that. That would mean I'd have to think for myself. And just love it, had to endure watching the Kardashian sisters plugging their FASHION for Sears before being able to view the video. Gag me with an aircraft carrier, matie!


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      • HoTaters

        I don't have a problem with "ethnic journalists" and people of color. I do have a problem with seeing them exploited by mass media, especially when they BELIEVE the garbage and lies they are repeating to the public.

        Malcolm X being the spokesman for Margaret Sanger comes to mind ….


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  • noradmama

    Report from West Coast: SF regarding wildlife observations: we have dolphins returning to the bay in pods… seen them and seals. Lots of pelicans and birdlife in water sanctuary areas. Lots of mussels on rocks at China Beach, SF. Found a large crab on the shore. Tons of sand crabs in the sand by the water. Seagulls will still attack your lunch if you leave it on your towel. And yes, I have found strange potatoes, weird misshaped strawberries in my yard. Weird carrots at my neighbors… and a 4 foot dandelion plant awhile back…. Had a cold that lasted 6 weeks last year and could NOT clear either nasal passage for 2 weeks: worst cold ever. Last year more cases of pneumonia around here. Sinus problems. Now my friend in her 40's: lymphoma and another woman around the same age: leukemia. Fukushima???? Yes, I am very concerned and appalled at the denial and silence around me. So many just don't want to know or hear. I choose to know and educate those who will listen. The rest of you may continue your shoe shopping pursuits at Nordy's.


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  • SophieQ

    The real issue at hand here appears to be that the whole Fukushima catastrophe and its consequences cannot be comprehended by entities that have already developed a high level of indifference in regards to what happens on this planet as we type.
    In a very profound way, Fukushima is foremost the top issue for Philosophers. As the quantification of the damage on physical matter is not possible, the mind escapes into denial. This denial must be transcended in order to be at peace. We all must die at one point. But it should be our choice to acknowledge and accept the inconvenient truth about Fukushima, not by black out on coverage.


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  • What about lakes and rivers? They forget to mention other bodies of water being contaminated with Fukushima radiation.

    The Pacific Ocean is certainly being hit. But then there are lakes and rivers from which people obtain their drinking water.

    The city of Victoria on Vancouver Island, Canada, for example, gets its water mostly from Sooke Lake. Whatever radioactive particle falls into that water stays there – until it is distributed with our drinking water.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://ottersandsciencenews.blogspot.ca/


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