Published: February 15th, 2012 at 10:59 am ET
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>> UPDATE: Radiation monitors spike at several locations in western Japan -- Highest level recorded in 100 days (CHARTS) <<
Title: National radioactivity concentration
Source: atmc.jp
Date: Feb. 15, 2012
Graphed data created based on reports from [...] http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/ja/monitoring_by_prefecture/
All MEXT monitoring stations in and around the Greater Tokyo Area showed significant spikes in radiation. This includes Tokyo (Shinjuku), Saitama, Kanagawa, Chiba, and Ibaraki.
Earthquakes in the region on Feb. 14
Chiba:
Kanagawa:
Tokyo:
Saitama:
Ibaraki:
>> UPDATE: Radiation monitors spike at several locations in western Japan -- Highest level recorded in 100 days (CHARTS) <<
Published: February 15th, 2012 at 10:59 am ET
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great - "enviro-fa scist ...
if we get thru this thing, someone...
sending...
It would have to be an extremely strong earthquake to stir up dust… Earthquakes must shift how the water interracts with the corium, perhaps sloshing water about , causes recriticality somehow ? …
I'm at a loss… they definately dont stir up the dust, as stong gusty winds would do the same , we don't seem to see spikes in radiation after gusts or windy weather, Just the earthquakes, happens often enough…
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When the 'slumbering' corium's disturbed, it emits gases at a rate that would be higher than it's 'normal' (equalized) emission levels. It's as though were a drunk in a deep stupor. Someone shakes them and they're likely to respond be moving about; which, in-turn, leads to gases being emitted (verbal protests, belching and flatulence). And not unlike what you'd find in alcohol abuse, the addiction to nuclear technologies is taking a toll on the entire human family…
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I think this is 1 of the best comments I've ever seen
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@stopnp: thank you much!
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Radiation from Fukushima's nuclear reactions will go wherever the wind blows 24/7 !
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No one wants to know
No one wants to know
Keep shopping till you drop
Keep watching dancing shows till the Carrington Effect hits
Nothing to see here, move on
I am sure that the authorities involved will report this 'blib' as being due to a defective meter, a broken wire, or possibly due to old radioactive paint.
Maybe they could send those research ships out and see if this is related to whales passing gas? Don't shoot them… just monitor their gas emissions…
Surely this has NOTHING do to with three or more out of control melted down, melted through, blown up reactors?
Now where did I put those three 65 ton fissioning corium blobs?
Anyone see where I left them?
Darn, I need to buy me a clapper, so I can keep track of those dang things..
They keep running away and hiding
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So funny!!!
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What are they burning lately? There is the burning of the waste adding to the problem. What's the weather like in Tokyo?
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@HoTaters: there's a correlation between the earthquake tremors and these spikes…
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Yes, I got that.
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What is on the "Y" axis on this graph. It's not terribly meaningful if one can't look at the graph and see what the levels are. Dates are helpful of course, but it's impossible to tell what's actually there (aside from a spike) if there is no measurement data on the "Y" (vertical) axis.
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@HoTaters: wasn't sure if you did. Your speculation about burning/incineration of contaminated materials threw me off. Sorry…
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"The burning of the waste COULD BE ADDING to the problem." Just saying there may be multiple factors at work. Thought that could be deduced from the statement and didn't think it was necessary to say there may be multiple factors at work. Thought that would be clear from "adding to".
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I'm not speculating there is burning of radioactive waste. A Tepco subsidiary has been burning radioactive debris and dumping the ash in Tokyo Bay for months.
http://enenews.com/tokyo-begin-burning-radioactive-waste-disaster-area-will-continue-march-2014-city-process-1-billion-pounds
TITLE:
"Fukushima Part II? Tokyo to begin burning massive amounts of radioactive waste from disaster area — Burns will continue for at least 2.5 years, until March 2014 (VIDEO)"
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@HoTaters: I know they're burning contaminated materials. I just thought you were linking (speculating) that these spikes might be attributed to the burning of wastes. But now that we're both on the same page…
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could it be that these are not earthquakes but underground explosions?
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DING DING DING DING DING
We got a winner!!!
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Yes it has to be this.
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Don't think so
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you putting a dong on anthonys ding ding? bandb? lol!
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Sorry Anthony for the dong , lol
Like everyone else here, I'm just guessing…..
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I am laughing so hard over here you guys!!!! And BTW I'm guessing too….. hope I'm wrong on top of it!!!! That dinging though was the sound my intuition makes when I come upon a truth. Crazy world and thanks for the dong B&B (!)
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So it seems we have a bunch of ding dongs on this site… well balanced, equal numbers on each side.
I prefer the dongs myself.
Does that make me unbalanced?
How does this affect my politics?
Will I live long enough to see if I can switch over to being a ding?
We all know the Carrington Effect is coming..
Set off the warning bells.
Ding Dong Ding Dong
http://youtu.be/GjgDhbkY8vs?t=4m
National Academy of Sciences and several other federal government studies suggest that this extreme solar activity and emissions may result in complete blackouts for years in some areas of the nation. Moreover, there may also be disruption of power supply for years, or even decades, as geomagnetic currents attracted by the storm could debilitate the transformers.”
So how do we keep all 400-1000 nuclear power plants and their associated spent fuel pools globally from melting down and blowing up, after the power has been out for days, weeks and/or months?
The next climax of solar storms is going to happen in late 2012, according to this reporter.
Some really neat video and close ups of the sun doing what it does… http://youtu.be/l2RMnmjQynM
NASA has revised their prediction for solar maximum to now occur around mid-May of 2013. sources:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/next-solarstorm.html
Remind me what happens when you shut off power to 400 nuclear power plants for months around the world?
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Don't you guys mean Carrington EVENT ?
Cool, carry on….
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Me neither B&B….I was busy working next door (Reactor No. 2 temperature steadily trending downward — Is gauge broken?.) on a theory about how the water entrained the thermal criticality and so the volatilized radionuclide's are now in the ocean as fallout.
But now i come here and realize i may have been on another tangent, These spikes have not done much for my theory.
I have to start again now.
Strewth!!
Just cover it in sand to filter the nukes and build a pyramid using the contaminated sand for bricks, and contaminated water for the mortar.
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Hi Spectro, while you were working next door, I was re-reading the great little report those scientists have done concerning the EQ danger at Fuku. Especially the pics on page 7 and text on page 8 are quite revealing. Fascinating stuff.
http://www.solid-earth.net/3/43/2012/se-3-43-2012.pdf
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How can so many of you dismiss that the corium is causing quakes if they haven't looked at the evidence and the chemical reactions people are talking about?
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Also on Fukushima Diary residents we stating that the earthquakes felt different like explosions underground thus perhaps it is the corium. It's anyones guess.
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rather were stating sorry I'm always doing that.
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And I could be wrong too. And what I read may have been total disinformation. Some of it just made sense and is reminding me of what people are now saying, so many months later. Like maybe there was ominous truth to it all, but the thread got shut down and was being heavily either watched or engineered.
I know I'm not one of the Super Cam and Photo Analysts here. They are so great at picking apart visual details.
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Only, it's not necessarily a total guess if we look at the chemical composition of the earth under Fukushima. The thread I saw was roughly 30 pages of analysis and puzzling games. I wasn't sure I wanted to open up that can of worms here, because it is a can of worms possibly.
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@jahdesm: we've (enenews members) have been speculating that this increased rate of tremors may possibly be induced by coreum-mass shifting and heating of adjacent rock-strata…
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I just posted above about this. The corium could be reacting with whatever's under the ground. Months ago people speculated a terrible scenario based on this kind of thinking.
This means that it could turn into a catastrophic explosion, according to the thinking I read. However, maybe it would just keep exploding in small ways like this.
I really have no idea, to tell the truth. It seems like a neverending thing, but now you all are making me nervous thinking that other scenario is what we're looking at.
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This is making my stomach hurt.
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@GoFrodo: it will be never-ending. That's not to say there's nothing that can be done to reduce the effects but that we've got to accept that this is not going away soon. We're looking at decades and trillions-of-dollars in property losses, livelihood, health costs and-on-and-on. We have to start moving towards what can be done; not if something should be done…
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EQ waveforms would be very revealing in determining whether or not the EQ's are from natural causes. So far have been unable to find Japanese monitoring data, or data from mainland Asia on this. Would need to get the seismic monitoring data from seismic stations, such as what one can find in the U.S. The stations are usually on mountaintops.
If anyone can find this data, it would help end speculation on the cause of the EQ's. Lots of aftershocks are to be expected from the 3/11 quake; even years later, according to seismologists.
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Reposting from webcam discussion as it occurs perhaps to be relevant..
This is from last night's and this morning's observations..
…is it me..or does the #2 building occur to be sinking? the building, at the roof line, is no longer plumb with the line from the #1 tent.. it now slopes downward.
It really could be my eyes, so if anyone else would care to take a look and give me your opinion, I would appreciate it.
I did go back and review some of nuc's older videos from the JNN cam and it seems to support this observation.
I know they keep talking about removing water from one basement or another, but I am also aware some are connected.. so, is the whole damn place sinking?
http://myfukushima.info/2011/06/06/diagram-of-water-flows-in-various-basements/
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@cataclysmic… i can't see what you mean about number2 sinking, but i have no doubt that this pile of shit WILL sink.
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easier to see in the light.. if you are interested.. check out some recent and previous jnn footage.. used to be a straight line.
The top of building two was perpendicular to the line at the top of the # one tent.. now it slopes downward.. but it is more difficult to see in the night footage.
It was very apparent last night my time(pacific time), when it is lighter in Japan, but did not want jnn cam to photo shop or ? so I did not comment. Maybe you will keep your eyes peeled later and let me know when it is more visible if you can notice this.. I will look later too.
If there are explosions inside, then the structure is suffering.. also, I doubt the buildings were designed to take all the water..
The trees were smoking a tremendous amount over by the "non" hole in the side of reactor 2, and there was some crane activity there too.. I do believe there is a big "vent" hole in the side of #2, allowing the smoke and pressure out.. I suspect it would have already blown sky high if it were not for this..
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And a creepy thing about looking at the vent hole in the side of #2 is you can see it glowing purple at night. The violet/purple glow has been visible all around the plant at night, on the stacks, near the ground, and always around the vent hole at #2.
Wikipedia may or may not be a great source of info. on this, but this might be useful here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized_air_glow
"Violet hue can occur when the spectrum contains emission lines of atomic hydrogen. This may happen when the air contains high amount of water, e.g. with lightnings in low altitudes passing through rain thunderstorms. Water vapor and small water droplets ionize and dissociate easier than large droplets, therefore have higher impact on color.[6]"
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Hi HoTaters, do you mean a hole in unit 1 or 2? Because the violet hue around the hole in unit 1 is a lens reflection, i think. There's another one (orange / violet) at the base of the smoke stack at unit 3?
Or are you seeing something else?
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I thought it was the side of #2, but you could be right. Have had some difficulty telling what I'm seeing on the Webcams. Have only found one reference to location of the cameras. You could be right. In the webcam that shows the buildings (I think it's looking westward from the coastline?) it looks like the #2 reactor is the one at far left. Is that #1 and not #2?
The one I'm referring to barely shows #4 at the far right, where the big crane usually sits.
If you could straighten me out on this one, I'd appreciate it. It has never been clear to me exactly what I'm seeing there, so clarification would be helpful. To me it looked like a big hole in the side of #2, about 2/3 of the way up the building at far left, near the right edge of the building.
What is that? I didn't think it was #1, because that's the one which has the tent over it, correct?
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B&B, do you mean a lens reflection at night? If so, that's interesting to consider!
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@HoTaters, I'm talking about the Tepcocam, NOT TBS. K? So, on the Tepcocam the building on the left (with the fake façade and tent roof) is unit 1.
In this building, on the left wall, there's a hole on which sits a violet semi-transparent hue at night. I think it is caused by lens reflection from the big glaring worklight in the background at night.
Have a look at it that way and see if it makes sanse to you…
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:O I read something about this many months ago. I will try to post later. It had to do with the makeup of minerals under Fukushima.
Could this be it? Are they underground explosions from the corium reacting with whatever's under the ground??
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Look at the cluster on the earthquake map. If they were all earthquakes caused by plate shifting, they would extend further north and south.
The melted cores are causing problems no one can predict. This is all uncharted territory. Where it goes from here, no one knows.
However, we can see melted steel support structures, concrete containment turning to chalk, salt water and acid chemical corrosion, constant and increasing seismic activity, decreasing ability of both humans and machines to work on site, and the complete failure of all governments to tell us the truth.
The question is, what happens when the whole complex is soon completely exposed to atmosphere with no containment whatsoever? Whether in one week or 20, it's coming.
One third of children have thyroid cancer. No treatment, just "further monitoring". In less than a year. Chart this out five years. We can expect all our governments to treat us similarly. Incomprehensible amounts of radiation, no healthcare.
Ask Gunderson or Caldicott what is the worst possible outcome. The truth. Then know it's worse than that.
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I like your assessment, especially the part about "take what they say and know it's worse" idea. Yup.
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Total Fukushima Radiation Released Into Ocean, Air, Groundwater, Storage Tanks, etc http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/3069802
A Green Road Blog
http://www.agreenroadblog.com
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"If they were all earthquakes caused by plate shifting, they would extend further north and south."
Hi! Are you a seismologist? Or just guessing?
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there was a slight rise on the 21 jan as far as i could make out from the data in fukushima prefecture it raised from the usual 0.9 microsievert/hr to about 1.2 microssieverts/hr
representing a 0.3 microsievert/hr spike! i could see no other spikes in the area?
the high level continued for the next day measuring in on about 1.1 microsievert and nearly dropped to "normal" by the 23..
they need to spectroanalyse this stuff and release the info!! obviously the science institutes where they are based have the equipment, but no reasuring analysis!! hmmm??
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oh and that monitoring equipment is showing very flat data which means that you can not track fallout clouds easily as the data is averaged out way too much!! they do not measure smaller spikes and thats how radiation fallout moves.. in waves and small/large clusters!
thought eurdep was bad! though it seems to be heading that way!
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Hi arc,
There are at least two groups doing independent monitoring in Japan. Someone posted a link to Datpoke yesterday. You may already be aware of that one.
http://www.datapoke.org/blog/
Here's another one I have found interesting. They are doing mapping, too. Several Japanese are co-managing the project. They have a brochure which can be printed out, and it is in Japanese. You might be interested in paritcipating in this one, since you're doing some monitoring yourself, and have technical skills. (It's an international effort.)
http://blog.safecast.org/
Cheers.
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Hi arc,
There are at least two groups doing independent monitoring in Japan. Someone posted a link to Datpoke yesterday. You may already be aware of that one.
http://www.datapoke.org/blog/
Here's another one I have found interesting. They are doing mapping, too. Several Japanese are co-managing the project. They have a brochure which can be printed out, and it is in Japanese. You might be interested in participating in this one, since you're doing some monitoring yourself, and have technical skills. (It's an international effort.)
http://blog.safecast.org/
Cheers.
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thanks for the reminder of gatapoke.. forgot to favourite it! and been busy bugging the iaea in europe with the indominatable bandb !
back on the japanese mission now! thanks! maybe 
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Sorry, don't know how the double post happened.
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Valentine's Day love radiations?
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Bah Humbug!
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Hello, arclight
Pls spell out what eurdep stands for. Many thanks.
They knew 10 months ago Tokyo needed to be evaculated. Who will take them?
Heartbroken,
openeye
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EURDEP is (European Radiological Data Exchange Platform)
http://eurdep.jrc.ec.europa.eu/Basic/Pages/Public/Home/Default.aspx
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hi openeye! and thanks mungo!
the situation in japan can be managed if the proper monitoring has begun.. japan has a large elderly population that is more resistant to the effects of sustained low dose levels.. but it is the young, the future that is most at risk here!
and things can be done about that! it would mean the japanese government give easy access visa to the young for educational purposes and with supporting grants.. would be an interesting experiment and a practical way of minimising exposure for the (hopefully) twenty or so years it took to recover from the worst effects of chernobyl! (still have some way to go on that situation as the old european reactors are over emmitting!)
once the thinkers get motivated and supported safecast ( the japanese citizen monitoring network) and others can begin to provide real solutions.. i am positive that japanese activists are going to have a good year with their struggles.. the fukushima issue is going to make the news this year! DO NOT underestimate the quiet majority in japan, i have faith they will step up to the mark when the time is right!
peace!
banzai!! no nukes!
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Until the fog of war hits them upside the head. There will be some great distractions to come. If Fukushame doesn't change them, nothing will. How bad does it have to get before the lights go out?
Let us be kind, one to another, for we are each of us together in our pain!
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I have the means to put-up a small Japanese family at my home. If we have the means, we should all be offering to do so. I couldn't pay for them to get here, but if they could, they'd be welcomed as family…
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SALUTE!
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I have to disagree and be real.Not in my house.I don't even want their goods.I think I have enough radioactive things from Japan all around me and mine.You do what you think is right and by all means I love your symbolic gesture of opening your home but you would be putting others at risk by re homing them in your community.I'm a humanitarian but also a realist.There will be no mass evacuation to other countries because of fear.If this happened from the beginning I could be more sympathetic to their plight and would have gladly done the same.Time is and always was their greatest enemy (besides the radiation).I know it's not their fault and they are suffering which makes me very sad but self preservation should be everyone's first priority.After reading how they are turning into fuel rods, hospitals are turning people away,ect,ect. I want no part of anything Japanese and sorry, and I mean sorry,this could have happened anywhere there's nuke plants and such and this would be the whole worlds reaction.I wouldn't put anyone else in the situation where I was a hazard to everyone around me.
Could you imagine how much radioactive material they would bring with them if everyone left Tokyo and say went to Arizona.Would they be any better off?Strangers in a strange land.Sick/Dying making everything around them contaminated.Just peeing and pooping would ruin the water.Transporting them there would bring more of it there.
Japan is a leper colony now.Their country gives gifts now that keep giving.Pandora's Box has been opened and everyone is/will be suffering the effects for the rest of time.If I got my history right people who survived and grew up in Hiroshima and Nagasaki where shunned as unsuitable mates because of the radiation and no one wanted mutant babies.Should it be any different now?This is the worst disaster in the history of mankind and most anyone who can see knows it will only get worse.
I really do feel horrible writing this but it's how I feel…
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@xstatic: I hope you have a BIG load of food and lots of purified water on hand. The god-of-karma loves to eat the selfish…
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O.K. How many people do you see around you that are homeless in your area? Have you taken anyone that's "Homeless" in your home? O.K. then, what's the difference..oh it's because there's a big crisis going on in Japan?? You have the right to call me selfish? Hmmm. I would be more worried about helping someone in my own country that is "Homeless" before I took someone in from Japan! Just to let you know, we do have someone who is "Homeless" in OUR home! So we will get GOOD KARMA..if there is such a thing..Oh yeah…Lemme introduce myself…I'm Xstatic's Wife..from what I read on your outlook on things..you are doing what you think is good..but like I said earlier in this paragraph, I would help people in my own country before I helped anyone in that country! That country is going to hell..and it's sad but it's NOT fair for anyone to suffer…but I will be damned if I let anyone from there come into my home and possibly infect/poison my children and family! It's to risky! How dare you call me and my family selfish when I said earlier that we have taken someone of our own kind into our home that needs it the most!!! You're right we will get our Karma but it will be only good! How prepared are you?!? Not that prepared are you?? Do you even follow what's going on over there or are this chum who reads all the lies and falls for them..and then feels "SO BAD" for people…but yet can't help people in their own country???? People like you make me sick..only care about things and people you can't control but the things and people you can..you just walk on by and say oh they did this stuff to themselves!
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I hope others will be thinking differently when a nuke near YOU melts down and you are looking for safe shelter for your family.
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@xstatic: way too many assumptions being made on your part. You need to take a deep breath and reflect on what you would argue against. As a post within a newsgroup does not necessarily represent ones' character, I'll stand by my assertion that what you've suggested, is. Being defensive about taking in the needy is shortsighted. This doesn't mean you should expose yourself or family to danger. But if you have the means to help a family, why not? I'd do it for you, if your children were under such threat. And as our nation's foreign policy was instrumental in influencing the events at Fukushima, our nation is foremost obligated to helping the Japanese…
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hi openeye heres a link to some amateur analysis i did on the more sensitive monitors in the eurdep mapping system… interesting how much you could tell from it… but err had a few problems recently.. the videos are here if you are interested!
http://www.youtube.com/user/arclight2011/videos
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Xenon * Quakes * Spikes
Rinse and Repeat
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The plant needs to be corked somehow.
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There are several cores that are damaged/melted. Then, there's a mass of debris covering them. The concept of a cover is not practical. The best approach is to come-up from underneath. I'm proposing the construction of large trenches that converge on each building. Each trench would be feature a set of bidirectional train-tracks for hauling return debris and construction materials, equipment and personnel. The trench would be lined and covered with prefab cement slabs. A progressive points, air-locks and safety refuges would be intermittently installed along the away, into the side-walls of the trench. They would be dug progressively deeper as they approached the damaged facility. They would have to be large enough to provide for the transportation of heavy excavation equipment; something akin to the Lincoln Tunnel that connects New Jersey to New York City. They would be large and expensive to build. But considering that these coreum-masses will be churning for decades, this concept must be considered…
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I haven't followed everything, but this sounds good to me.
Could they theoretically cork up the coriums with it?
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@GoFrodo: If they can get to the coreum-masses, then they'd be able to cool it better and then draw-away bits of it, at a time. This would require remote controlled hardware for this process. While they're about the process of trench/tunneling towards the damaged facilities (all work being done in parallel), they could be developing/constructing/beta-testing the remote controlled hardware. We're talking billions of dollars for new materials research and to pay for the best thinking machines (experts engineers and scientists). But what choice do we have? These coreum-masses will be belching death for decades-and-decades (if not centuries) if we don't get started!!!
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Remember that this Complex is very close to the Pacific Ocean and that makes drilling and tunneling below the site a MUCH large problem!
I suggested months ago the they remove as many SFR's as possible to yet another site, but I don't know why they have not done so YET; my guess it that TEPCO wants to restart #5 and #6…
That TEPCO has wasted almost a year because they hoped that the Corium(s) ere still inside the RPV will IMO be the biggest mistake in Modern History, because if the massive H☢T Corium(s) make contact with the groundwater then the Hydro Corium(s) Radioactive Steam will make the entire Complex a No Go Zone, plus if it becomes dramatic, it will affect the Planet because of the Jet Stream…
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@CaptD: you are correct about the timeline. As to the removal of spent fuel rods (SFR)? Problem may be in safely accessing the areas of interest. Your initial concern about the geology is important. Thankfully, the area is predominantly of volcanic-type strata. This is excellent material for cutting through, as it's also imperative that noise be kept to a minimum (explosives?) as they approach the damaged structures. Again, this will become akin to putting a man on the moon and returning him safely! We can do this…
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Our country can spend less money on these increased Alzheimer's research programs and such (increases will be caused by radiation, we don't need researchers to tell us that), and donate some money into doing things like what you discuss.
It makes no sense. The real problem has no attention. The secondary problems from that problem get all the focus. What a con.
There is money to be diverted, if they would be honest and go for the root of the coming problems.
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At the very least they should cask the spent fuel rods at Dani. I don't know why they are not doing this unless there is something TEPCO is not telling us. It's just common sense to take that precaution. WTF are these people doing. I just hope they are not thinking about starting up Dani.
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Do you have suggestions for making the trenches/tunnels resistant to earthquakes?
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@HoTaters: interlocking and overlapping reinforced concrete slabs will more than suffice. As the trench/tunnel progresses, preliminary runs would be further reinforced with tubing.
This job will require the best engineers/geologists/materials scientists and logistical planning.
I'm not saying it would be 'painless' but this sitting around and wringing of hands is for old ladies! We all were the cause of this! It's time we all started contributing – in every way imaginable – to finding solutions…
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Who is sitting around and wringing their hands? And are you any different, really, if you're just posting here? What are you doing besides telling everyone else what you think they should be doing, and coming up with farfetched ideas? Got any supporting evidence for these ideas? Credentials?
Dug any holes lately?
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A tunnel in a seismically active area would need to be flexible so that it could move along with the ground.
How do interlocking sections achieve the end of making an underground tunnel resistant to seismic stress? What kind of tubing are you suggesting? Do interlocking sections serve to make the structure more rigid, or more flexible?
As for ground deformation during an earthquake, what bearing do possible liquefaction, shear & torsional stresses, the direction of faulting and thrust in expected earthquakes, possible ground failure, & the interaction of different types of geological strata underneath have on the choice of materials and design/engineering specs?
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@HoTaters: though all of your concerns are well received, they were alluded too in previous posts.
As to geology, tunneling, tremors, structural integrity, materials and survivability? These are the most cogent questions. They're obviously best left to those who would be doing the initial feasibility studies. Looking at your list of 'stresses', you obviously grasp what's needed but apparently, you'd rather such technical issues be used to infer that my proposal is impractical.
As to "…supporting evidence for these ideas?" If you've had the chance to see a smelting operation, super-hot fluids are drawn-away and cooled down before further handling. As the coreum-mass is not within a controlled shape or container, this process will require the use of gravity feeds; hence the need to access them from progressively lower levels… tunnels, which evolve from… enclosed trenches.
As to credentials? In case you haven't noticed, 'credentials' are what got us here and will likely protect those who got us here. Still, I have – humbly – suggested the need for the best thinking machines to be put on this project.
As to telling others what to do? I'm suggesting – possible – solutions. I've moved-on to finding means to heal what's been done to the planet.
As to farfetched ideas? How does protecting those who would be accessing these coreum-masses appear irrational? Perhaps, it's better to let these coreum-masses smolder for a century or more?
Perhaps, you'd like to go on record with a more pragmatic approach?
Here's a shovel…
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I think it was PattiB who posted yesterday how the different coriums are projected to be at various depths. I cant recall specific depths but was left thinking one of them was sure further down than I speculated!
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@Anthony: doubtless, PattiB(?) was correct in her(?) statement. Access to the coreum-masses will vary on location and timeline. This is why we need a technical feasibility study/conference on this now! Every day that goes by leads to millions-more possible deaths and the expanse of the contamination is only increasing into surrounding area.
They need to completely take TEPCO out of the decision making process and get moving…ON SOME KIND OF SOLUTION!!!
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Someone push the off button already! Does this roller coaster ride ever end?
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There is N☢ OFF button…
Nature, not man, and Luck will determine if this Trillion Dollar Eco-Disaster continues to "JUST" be really bad or if it will become a GLOBAL Game Changer for the Planet and all the people living on it!
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Think about it, any shaking or Earth movement will cause the 3 “missing corium(s) to restart what I call “The Fuky Effect” and I expect to see increased signs of radiation in Northern Japan as well as additional temperature spikes “in temperature gauges that are not reading properly” at Fukushima!
This EQ will not help the rumbling Volcano in Southern Japan either…
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What if the earth is shaking _because_ of the missing coriums exploding underground, like people are saying? I think that's what may be going on. It all makes sense.
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I'd suggest that Fukushima's Corium(s) are like a zit on the surface of the Earth while the interactions deep below the surface are more of a random unknown; sure EQ's will cause "what I call “The Fuky Effect” and I expect to see increased signs of radiation in Northern Japan as well as additional temperature spikes at Fukushima" but I do not think that the Corium(s) are causing the EQ's…
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Like a zit. Yes CaptD. I think your right. Dont forget about that Report that came out this morning: http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2012/02/15/could-fukushima-daiichi-be-ground-zero-for-the-next-big-one/
If this isn't a warning sign, nothing is.
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A 300 ton plus zit.
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LMAO!
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OMG! Now we have to worry about Pimplonium135 and Acneum!
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LOL!!! 1000+ Thanks for making me laugh you guys!
PoorDaddy, too funny! Very clever! LOL 
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…LAUGH… snort…
……….funny…….
Needed that TY!
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@GoFrodo, I understand your concern. I'm very scared as well. But for your mind's health, please don't forget to take everything which is said here with a grain of salt.
Read the 9 page report Admin posted yesterday. Some scientific language, but on the whole understandeable for "normal" folks (like me). It gives a good explanation for the recent seismic activity (fluids travelling upwards, triggered by 3/11) and illustrate it quite good, imo.
Please have a look at it, while you have a cup of tea.
http://www.solid-earth.net/3/43/2012/se-3-43-2012.pdf
*peace friend
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Btw, the next one just hit, but further south from Fuku
http://www.jma.go.jp/en/quake/3/20120216023624391-160232.html
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Thanks for your concern but my worried postings don't mean my mind's health is in danger. In other words, I'm not as scared as I seem.
I know it's a mess, but on some level I just accept it. I mean, who of us doesn't consider the possibility of our deaths sometime soon?
Despite your or anyone's posts, though, I already had the idea in my head a long time ago about the underground explosions because it was fully explored on a thread online. I put it out of my mind when the thread died, and went on with my life. What else can I do? Read up on Enenews, and then watch some funny TV to forget it and go back to the oblivious world….
I'm just saying, there are data out there that might support this underground explosion theory (and why wouldn't that cause tremors?). Maybe I'll post some of sometime, if it would be helpful. These kind of details are not anything I usually have the patience to fuss over for very long like many on here, though.
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Thanks for the link, though! I already skimmed it. It's not very scary, is that the point – to reassure me? I'm not in high focus mode right now, though, so maybe I missed something.
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Well, it is scary, but also interesting to see a scientific answer to some questions. See pages 7 and 8.
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Alrighty, I'll read those later too.
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A real good thing to know would be whether methane clathrates are present beneath Fuku, sometimes they can occur as little as 500m down. It's had over 300 days to melt downwards. A handful of corium melting down it's own tubule contacting frozen methane that instantly expands a jillion times makes for a corium cannon, shooting bits o' the blob skyward at fantastic speeds.
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@CaptD: I like that one! "The Fuky Effect"…
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http://youtu.be/hv73MfgZWdg Interesting video about contamination
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Could this spike in rad levels in Tokyo be connected to the temperature spike in Reactor 2?
All that steam/smoke arising, that is visible in the cameras, is radioactive, right?
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Yes, I think it is directly related!
See my posts above….
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Little History about this:
Many more reactor comments (over 7200) on
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/06/japan-earthquake-2011-government-radiaton-estimate-doubles-_n_871887.html
+
Like a bad smell in a tiny elevator,
… radiation takes its time to get noticed
… but once found, there is no escaping it…
Many in Japan will die because of radiation,
… if it is acute, just depends upon time
… and we all know that TEPCO is not keeping
… any good records of all the "subcontractors"
… so they are on their own
… and not part of the record of this Debacle
That could happen here any day of the Week,
…Thanks to Nature and or Man…
+
Ask them The Big Three Dirty Questions!:
… How much it will cost to decommission the plant
… Who will pay for it
… Where will they ship the Nuclear waste
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1. An Engineering point of view, one can see that TEPCO is
… with holding vital info that is delaying any containment
… (no pun intended) and now their Gov't. is helping them!
2. A Scientific point of view, TEPCO is in total denial about
… the seriousness of this nuclear debacle and its effect on
… on the Japanese people and their economy! They are
… treating this more like a big "RECALL" instead of a CRISIS!
3. A Global point of view, Japan is not only NOW the World's
… Greatest Polluter, but they have lost their good quality
… reputation and they are allowing the pollution to continue!
4. A Humanitarian point of view, their treatment of their own
… children's health, their workers health and their refusal to
… make public, radiation readings from 3/11 is inexcusable!
5. A MSM (Main Stream Media) point of view, the way that our
… Countries have hidden this from the Public is just criminal
… and should be a wake up call to all to of us that we are losing
… our freedom of the Press along with our Freedom of Speech.
The only thing hard to understand is, why has the UN
… and All Other Nations allowed this "Japanese Fire Drill"
… to Continue, unless we are all potentially doomed
… and they do not want Global Panic?
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Right on CaptD!
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x10000000000000000000
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Does anyone have the link to where PattiB and maybe others discuss water molecules being split? The Search function is not helping me at all.
(This may have something to do with the material I have mentioned which discusses underground reactions with corium, as it was part of that thread too.)
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Where someone or PattiB says "… at some point shortly after, the corium will be allowed to heat water to the point of separating the H2O into H & O and that's what destroyed the …"
Does anyone have the link? Search doesn't work right.
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Found it:
http://enenews.com/forum-fukushima-webcam-discussion-thread-dec-14-2011-present/comment-page-28#comment-193568
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Well done! Screenshots without scaling.
Very scientific…
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Just now listened again to latest Rense interview with Yoichi Shimatsu – Yoichi said that all the water they are pumping into reactor 2 is/was having no cooling effect because the corium is below the reactor at this point… not sure if this has been mentioned here previously or not.
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Blades, do you have a link QUICK or I can google.
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found it:
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Shimatsu_021312.mp3
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go to rense.com and you will see the 'free listen' to latest Shimatsu and Michael Collins on the main page there, about in the center. if you have trouble finding it, I will post link.
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CaptD -
This debacle is just not fixable, correctable. It is too big. There really are not enough money, resources, etc. to take care of the many many severe and long-lasting problems. All they can do is try to stall for time, minimizing the severity of this event and its aftermath, pretending to be working on it, etc. All that any other nation can do is join them in their farting around, lying, etc.
Most of the other major nations of the world are complicitous, also have dirty hands, also have been in bed with the nuclear industry – it is like one part of a corrupt network is not going to point the finger at another part – rather they will group together, protect one another.
This is just off the 'fixability' scale.
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Once again why can't TEPCO start dry casking Dani? At least it's would minimize any future meltdowns from happening and take the SPF out of the scenario or am I wrong to think this way.
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I'll raise you a thousandfold by suggesting we will be adding Dainni to the nuclear dominoes game board. Not sure when but expecting the other shoe any day now…
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No I don't gamble considering the misinformation we are fed by TEPCO it's highly possible that Dani is also having problems but still they could at least empty the SFP and put them into dry casks and also the Common SFP ah geez what a mess.
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Yoichi Shimatsu on rense.com
For some reason when I copy & paste it is not 'clickable.' (See below.)
Yoichi's info has been great and I always try to listen to his half hour, usually weekly. This is one of the poorer segments, actually because he gets side-tracked to other stuff, like a theory about how Earth got water…. also they spend way too much time dissing the theory that the quake was deliberately triggered.
I am not sure about that but not quite so ready to dismiss it as Rense is. It is a hot button item for him for some reason, the subject of frequent rants. There is loads of evidence that the Haiti and Indonesian quakes WERE triggered by HAARP. Leuren Moret has lots of very good info on these. She also says the Japan quake was triggered and supports her theory with some data.
I don't know for sure, of course, and if so it seems like a very dangerous risky thing to have done, for purposes of population reduction and achievement of global empire, but I am not quite so sure about it as Rense, and I wonder why he is so very definite and emotional about it and rants on about it so extensively and repeatedly.
NEW
Yoichi Shimatsu
Japan Update
2.13.12
Free MP3 – Listen
NEW
Michael Collins
Radiation Update
2.13.12
Free MP3 – Listen
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Thanks Blades. I'll have to postpone listening for a bit.
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More evidence that the dumping of radioactive water back into the ocean is having global effects not just local….
http://www.news.com.au/world/hundreds-of-dead-dolphins-found-off-peru/story-e6frfkyi-1226268416822
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P.S. Dolphins are not native to the Peruvian coast so is it possible they ended up there in an effort to escape the burning effects of radiation?
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I meant to say they are native to the coast. My bad..
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That's tragic… everything suspiciously dead in the ocean should automatically be tested for radiation.
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When the stench in the winds is so overwhelming because the only left alive in the oceans is that which feeds on decaying flesh there will be no need to test anymore.
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I'd be willing to bet that after the first 24 to 36 hours they knew that :
A) Cores had melted.
B) Cores would escape containment.
C) There was nothing anyone could do about it.
I remember Arne stating something to the effect, way last spring, that it was all pure physics now and there was nothing anyone could do…..
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Speaking of radiation spikes…Did anyone see this report from the IPPNW (International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War)? They discovered recently that radioactive emissions of noble gases from inspections and the refueling process are 500 times HIGHER than the "permissible" releases of daily operations:
http://www.ippnw-europe.org/en/nuclear-energy-and-security.html?expand=707&cHash=8752881e4a
Snip:
"Analyses by IPPNW Germany and Nuremberg physicist and statistician Dr Alfred Körblein demonstrate dramatic increases in the emissions during the brief inspection and refuelling period at Gundremmingen. Dr Körblein stated 'At its maximum value, the concentration of noble gas emissions during refueling was 500 times greater than during normal reactor operation.'
"IPPNW warns of the probable health impacts of such large emission spikes. 'Especially AT RISK are UNBORN CHILDEN. When reactors are open and releasing gases, pregnant women can incorporate much higher concentrations of radionuclides than at other times, mainly via respiration' said Reinhold Thiel, member of the German IPPNW Board. 'Radioactive isotopes inhaled by the mother can reach the unborn child via the blood and placenta with the result that the embryo/ fetus is contaminated (‘labelled’) by radioactive isotopes. This contamination could affect blood-forming cells in the bone marrow later resulting in leukemia.
"'This provides a plausible explanation for the findings of the KiKK study published in 2007 and 2008 that under-fives living near NPPs are considerably more at risk of cancer, particularly leukemia, than children living further away,' Thiel added.
"Up to now, supervisory authorities and nuclear operating companies have KEPT THESE SPIKES SECRET by only providing annually-AVERAGED figures, despite our repeated requests for disaggregated data. We need half-hourly data of the releases of each radioactive nuclide from all German NPPs for scientific…
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Got cut off…:
"Up to now, supervisory authorities and nuclear operating companies have KEPT THESE SPIKES SECRET by only providing annually-AVERAGED figures, despite our repeated requests for disaggregated data.
"We need half-hourly data of the releases of each radioactive nuclide from all German NPPs for scientific evaluation. This is necessary for the protection of unborn children near German nuclear reactors.”
Time to "cough it up", NPPs…so our children won't have to…
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brilliant article watk!
thanks for posting!
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You're welcome, Arc!
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Nicely put, What-About-The-Kids! "Time to "cough it up", NPPs…so our children won't have to… "
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Thanks, StillJill!
Hope you are feeling better these days? BTW: I am wondering if you have any info you could share about GI bleeding? I read on another thread you had experienced this. What did the doc say caused it? (if they knew…)
The reason I ask is that I've been feeling a burning sensation (like I swallowed hot coals) and can't help but wonder…Do you have any good remedies? (Besides antacid tablets?)
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I know you didn't ask me, but try Japanese Knotweed. Anti-parasitic, anti-bacterial, anti-viral, heals damaged nerves and lesions in the esophagus and digestive tract. Stephen Harrod Buhner has written about its properties at length, and cites medical studies in Asia re: these healing properties. Buhner also provides guidelines for usage.
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If you don't want to / decide not to use Japanese Knotweed, you can try Resveratrol. The "synergistic effect" of the properties of the whole herb probably provide more healing benefits.
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BTW, I agree with stillJill colloidal silver is very good. You can purchase your own silver generator, and then it's far less expensive than buying the pre-made product.
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Thanks, HoTaters! The Knotweed sounds good…but how to get some that was harvested pre-Fuku? The silver sounds a bit scary. Is it actual silver? I think I've probably ingested and been externally exposed to enough heavy metals by now that adding any more metal into my body doesn't sound intuitively like the right way to go. Unless it isn't actual silver…? Any links you suggest I read about it?
Thanks again.
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Owe,…that BURN! (That's the worst-IMO)
Yes,…I think drinking aloe vera juice and colloidal silver water was the cure. That, or inferred sauna! The saunas come in portable, sleeping bag styles too. Much less money,…and your head is outside,..(Nice).
No, the great Doctors haven't a clue WHAT it was, how I got a bleed, or how it went away. I know. It was a hot tottie that burned like a dico ball! I felt it–PERIOD!
The sauna makes me sweat about a half gallon each day. I kid you bloody NOT! The skin is the biggest organ, (never knew it was an organ at all),…and, with all that 'real estate' it, (skin) does a MIGHTY detox! If one can't get to a sauna,…the bath soaks of epsom salt and baking soda are almost as bloody good-truly!
Apple pectin, sodium alginate powder from "Willpower", sold as a food, for molecular gastronomy,…zeolite powder, 3-way clay from "Tecopia Essentia", chlorella and spirulina from "nuts Online", and I buy veggie caps empty in bulk,…yeah, pain in the butt. Just bought a funky little machine that does 50 pills at a time. You still have to load each cap into the bloody thing, so,…you get the drift!
Oh,…and Lugol's iodine 2% everyday! A few good BIG drops on my throat and neck.
My latest remedy that may help you also, is coral calcium! It 'binds one up',…so should be taken with Milk of Magnesia. MOM is very alkalizing too, over 10 pH. It's the only one that is,..no cramping. Coral Calcium is very alkalizing, and it is also oxygenating. These 'critters' hate oxygen and alkalinity! So I give them LOTS of both!
Hope this helps my friend!
Stay safe!
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@StillJill: didn't know you weren't feeling good. I'll say a prayer that you knit well. We need you and that 'ruler' out here…
…love…
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Wow, thanks for the great tips, StillJill! You are one dedicated woman! All you are doing boggles my mind!
I will look at some of these. Yes, good point about the skin being one big organ. Sweating helps purify for sure! Thanks again.
Well wishes to all!
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WATK,…start slowly,…I did. It wasn't until about June that I bought the apple pectin,…July until I started the epsom salt/baking soda soaks. The clays, zeolite, and Lugol's came along shortly thereafter. I sure don't want ANYONE to think it's too hard,…or they are too behind. Not so. Jump in with the cleansings,…it is not too late!
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Do you think this has helped? Does the detoxing make you feel better?
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Ok, thanks for the encouragement, StillJill. I need it!
I am a bit overwhelmed and not sure what to do first…I live in Seattle and the SILENCE here is deafening. No one I know is discussing Fuku. I've dropped a few hints, referred people specifically to this website, but no one ever gets back to me and even confirms they've read this site. Denial or just plain lack of knowledge about what's happening in Japan? Hard to say.
I think the fact that Hanford has such a long history here, makes people even more in denial…? Not sure.
Are there any people from Washington State, Western Washington, or Seattle on this site? I'd love to speak with them, so I don't feel like I'm the Lone Radiation Ranger of Seattle.
…H-E-L-L-O-O-…ANYBODY OUT THERE IN SEATTLE???… ;-D LOL
(Of course, it's a bit late tonight, LOL, but just let me know…)
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Can use a far infrared heater in a small room instead of purchasing a sauna, or paying to use one. Just not recommended for people with autoimmune issues. Inexpensive detox solution.
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Why are they not good for people with autoimmune issues? Just curious. You seem to know a lot. Are you in the nutrition or healing arts fields?
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Thanks! I love prayers,…they work!
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Hi all,
I had started a long post and lost my internet connection, so I'll just have to say thanks to all to responded to my earlier post today.
I have been inconsolable since last April after listening to the
Rense – Shimatsu interview on the mass extinction of cetaceans (the Black current conveyor belt) as well as all livestock and wildlife in North America. http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/radiation-poisoning/fukushima-virtually-hopelessyoichi-shimatsu-on-rense-radio.html Animals and kids have been my passion and life's work.
If it weren't for having found this active group of folks with open eyes and breaking hearts I might have gone under..
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we have all gone through the angst phase here.. glad you get the same boost i do here at enenews! and constructive solutions to some of the worst problems!! and comradeship!! we have admin to thank for that!
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It hurts to see the animals suffer and disappear (not to mention what's happening to children from this, of course).
This is one the few places I can find people who are of like mind in a lot of ways.
Welcome.
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I hear ya, Openeye. Having the support of people who deeply care is important. We've found a special place here for that indeed.
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Oh I hate that,…lost LONG posts!
Yes openeye,…it is too much for most of us MANY DAYS!
I too, have been inconsolable. There is no consolation to hang one's hat upon. Only here and a few like sites,.where truth and integrity are spoken. Your hunger brought you here,…as mine did! I was bound and determined to google search until I found somewhere that people were seeing what I was seeing. I prayed hard too. I asked a very specific thing,…God, match me up with the other zedok of God. If I cannot connect with them, my true Bothers and Sisters,…take me home please Father. He brought me here.
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Hopefully this will not be too repetitive,
… for those that have seen it on other sites:
EQ's + H☢T Corium(s) + Ground water = Fissioning
Fissioning + Time => radioactive steam releases => Black Dust
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