Radio: In the history of science we’ve never seen anything like this Fukushima plume heading across Pacific to U.S. and Canada — Why is Japan allowed to get away with contaminating ocean? (AUDIO)

Published: September 8th, 2013 at 1:05 pm ET
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52 comments


CBC Radio’s ‘As It happens’, September 2, 2013 – Carol Off, Host at 6:15 in: Why is Japan allowed to get away with this? Why are there not other efforts from other countries involved here?

Full broadcast here

Interview with nuclear expert Arnie Gundersen, Radio Ecoshock at 18:15 in: We’ve got this wedge of [radioactive] water heading across the Pacific, and really in the history of science we’ve never seen anything like this. What I’ve been asking people on the West Coast to do is to contact their elected state representatives, or province representative, and get them to sample fish.

Full interview with Gundersen here

Published: September 8th, 2013 at 1:05 pm ET
By

52 comments

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52 comments to Radio: In the history of science we’ve never seen anything like this Fukushima plume heading across Pacific to U.S. and Canada — Why is Japan allowed to get away with contaminating ocean? (AUDIO)

  • Nuclear is all about lies
    Lies out of the gate

    They state the additional does is just 30% bigger than baseline.

    But they have already "inflated the baseline" by 12 times the REAL baseline. So this represents a 400% increase over the "real baseline"

    But don't worry there is "no immediate risk"

    Here is the explanation of the lie of baseline.

    http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/p/baseline-is-just-one-of-lies.html

  • hbjon hbjon

    Could hot elements accumulate and enrich on the shore, igniting the beach in flames? Could be one solution to the dead and rotting marine life that will accumulate there. I didn't say it was a good solution. The fragile ecosystem will never be the same. Very very very sad thing to contemplate.

  • On a happier note, our miserably anti science pro oil leader Stephan Harper has not been able to completely muzzle CBC and so my tax dollars go to interviewing Arnie Gunderson. I hope the word will get out to the masses.

    • Oh sorry Radio Ecoshock interviewed Arnie. CBC is at least partially muzzled. Still a few CBC radio interviews posted on Enenews. Gives me some hope for my country.

  • dosdos dosdos

    Denial is an ocean nowhere near Egypt.

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    They're allowed to contaminate the earth because it can't be stopped. Scientifically impossible. The technology doesn't exist, nor ever will.

    Was inevitable that meltdowns would happen, we knew it, and now it's frustrating knowing that death from a slow agonizing cancer awaits many of us.

  • SS4U SS4U

    GREED
    They wanted the money and power. Soulless psychopaths. Still lying even with this ongoing disaster.
    Do they realize that were are all screwed, including them ?

  • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

    Why is Japan allowed to get away with contaminating the ocean ???????????? In SILENCE aka LIES ???????????

    I have a simular insane question , why is a country that very motivated fabricated and coldblooded showed the world a slur of false evidence to make war and destroy a country that did not pose a threat to them in any way whatsoever..and saturated childrens playground's with depleted uranium…to kill for hunderd's of generations..
    so it is the biggest HATE/WAR crime since the gaschamber's..

    https://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=iraq%20depleted%20uranium&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=eeUsUuW2CK2a1AXKw4DwBg&biw=1680&bih=841&sei=ieUsUr3pEumv0QWMz4C4Cw#hl=nl&q=iraq+depleted+uranium+children&tbm=isch&um=1

    getting away with NOT prosecuting those criminals in its own camp..

    and now acting as if their superiour moral compass and conscience forces them to "punisch" (remove/kill) assad and/or start www3 (for the greater good of israel/usa global dominance, so then more powerfull they can get away with even more crap…)

    (yes assad is a bastard, almost every dictator is, but if you would care then help the freedom rebels before al-quada infiltrate to cut rebel's troath's and takes over the arab spring next time rich hypocrits of the world)

    • We Not They Finally

      They need pipelines through Syria to get oil to the Mediterrean to be shipped to Europe and other northern locales. It may be that claiming they care so deeply about civilians is just an excuse.

      Anyone humane wanted Cheney prosecuted, but Obama looked the other way. My God, anyone humane would want Bush Sr. prosecuted because he started the (should-have-been-illegal) nuking of Iraq with depleted uranium. Also profited directly through the Carlyle Group.

      It no longer takes a dictator to do murderous things — just a well-placed corporatist. Dictators are just easier targets. Then totally immoral people call them villains, while the self-righteous accusers doom much larger numbers with their own hands.

      It's terrible to kill 1,500 people (or whatever number) with ghastly weapons, but nuclear is THE most ghastly weapon and with an outlandishly higher and ongoing toll.

      DisasterInterpretationDisorder, I'm with you!

  • rockyourworld

    they have to protect the rich peoples interests in japan and the japanese slave laborers

  • rockyourworld

    assad is meant to distract us from fukushima, shill dictators are used accordingly.

  • SusanS

    ☢ Japan Needs Worldwide Help NOW! ☢
    ☢ Fukushima Petitions to Sign & Share! ☢

    http://tinyurl.com/FixFuku

    ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢ ☢

  • nedlifromvermont

    I agree with rockyourworld … the The "Bashing Bashar Assad Show" is meant to distract attention from the Fukushima Melt-Outs…

    And "Why is Japan allowed to pollute Pacific Ocean?? You wanna know Why?? Because it is a cheaply built, General Electric flimsy reactor design BWR and GE has no need for product liability civerage. Isn't that sweet? Japan was pushed to sign law that any and all liability for accidents goes to reactor owner and none to the manufacturer. Even though the design is cheap and sucky. The manufacturer of this system bears no manufacturer's liability for a crappy industrial product. How is this possible? GE used financial muscle and influence with Congress to get away with mass murder without liability for damages!!! How does this happen??? It is not a free country; either Japan or US. United States is a GE-paid-for-fascist-pro-nuclear government, and Japan is a dependent satellite State. The Emperor wears no clothes. He has contaminated his own drinking water. The Emperor is GE Inc.

    • But signing a fraudulent contract voids the contract, especially if one party KNOWS that they are committing fraud.

      GE KNEW that reactor was defective and would fail. Engineers notified top brass of this fact. They quit rather than be part of installing any.

      If you sell a defective product, knowing it will fail and kill millions people, and then push the buyer to sign a waiver saying they can never sue, that is false and misleading, fradulent contract, which can be cancelled.

      GE is open to lawsuits not only from Japan, but also every person harmed by the radiation… Just have to get a group of lawyers to the biggest case since the tobacco industry lawsuit on.

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        Didn't the US just dump junk derivatives all over the world? When you want to dump your liabilities for what you know will go wrong and/or have no/less value you sell your crap to those that are willing take it and then you hide/run like hell. Very slimy/sick people are operating the entire world today!

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Why did Toshiba buy Westinghouse? And why is it Hitachi-GE in Japan and Ge-Hitachi in the US? Aren't the Japanese themselves continuing building deficient nuclear power plants in the US and around the world? Aren't they responsible for the cheapo cleanup in Japan? Unit #4 at Fukushima Daiichi was manufactured by the Japanese with a crack in the reactor when it was new and then installed by the Japanese. Who is responsible for that decision? Who is responsible for the falsified safety tests over many years at Fukushima Daiichi? Why were so many executives fired from TEPCO for scandal? Who decided to put MOX fuel in Unit #3 at Fukushima Daiichi?

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Well the normal folks eat these kinds of articles up and then they want more of the same..

    I wonder how old these Nuclear Power plants were, since he was sure they would be great producers for another 20+ years.

    I guess this is the type of guy that does not buy his own hot water tank with its attached 6 year warranty!

    Investors just pickup the phone on the way to the bank and then say.. just do it! Replace it and send me the bill!

  • FXofTruth

    Water is poured on to a melting core at 30,000 gallons per minute – (scientific estimation during an emergency meltdown)
         – 8.3 pounds is the weight of one gallon of water (variations in weight can happen because of elements in the water)
    – 30,000 gallons of water weight 249,000 pounds
         – A short TON, commonly used in the US, is equal to 2000 pounds

    ONE MINUTE – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 124.5 TONS of water. (All based on 30,000 gallons per minute)
    ONE HOUR – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 7,470 TONS of water.
    24 HOURS – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 79,280 TONS of water.
    1 WEEK – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 1,254,960 TONS of water. 
    ONE YEAR – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 65,257,920 TONS of water.
    50 YEARS – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 3,262,896,000 TONS of water.
    100 YEARS – of water flowing over a SINGLE melted core is 6,525,792,000 TONS of water.

    The question is, "How long does core cooling water stay in the melted core's area?"
    At the rate of 30,000 gallons a minute…minutes I would venture to say!
    If the water sat too long it would boil off.
    The above numbers are related to cooling off ONE melted core.
    These numbers will need to be multiplied times 3x melted cores.

    If water is flowing over a single core for ONE YEAR at the rate of 65, 257,920 tons.
    Then, in gallons that equals…

    • The answer is in the liquid hauling barge that no one knows where it goes, nor seems to care…

      It loads at Fuku, disappears, then comes back for another load.

      It loads liquids, not solids.

      Where is all of that liquid going?

      Hmmmmmm?

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Thats allot of water and has every single radioactive drop been accounted for?

  • Nuclear Disaster Lessons NOT Being Learned By GE, Westinghouse Electric, Hitachi, Toshiba; via A Green Road
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/12/nuclear-disaster-lessons-not-being.html

    What Is The Statistical Probability Of A Major Nuclear Accident Like Fukushima Happening In The USA? via @AGreenRoad
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/09/what-is-statistical-probability-of.html

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Dr. These people are not going to learn any lessons and they do not care since their Nuclear Industry checks just keep on a coming and are still rolling in and they all know their life is finite, plus its all legally "Word Craft" protected!

    We here need to really start worrying about all those nasty 16 OZ sodas and then of course that cell phone usage in cars, just like all the normal folks do..

  • Cologne Cathedral Cologne Cathedral

    Why is Zionism getting away with blowing up the reactors direct or indirect in the first place?

    • We Not They Finally

      Someone on this website once attacked you, a German, for being anti-Semitic. I defended you because I didn't see it. I now withdraw my defense. Shinzo Abe is hardly a Jew. And whatever involvement Netanyahu had with Fukushima (and he might have) he does not represent JEWS, just the nation of Israel. God knows. America has had the Bushes, Cheney ,and a lot of other deadly characters. But we're not maligning Aryans.

      My husband and I am JEWS. And you need to STOP this.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        I don't believe that he is either German or anti-nuke. I thing that was just a persona adopted to introduce himself on this website.

        CC, the nuclear industry is responsible for Fukushima. The earthquake was caused by Japan's J-Parc accelerator. The earthquake broke the pipes of the antiquated reactors' cooling systems.

        Asian brain washing is really despicable.

      • If A Haiku Hid Music If A Haiku Hid Music

        Already entering the realm of off-topic, but Zionism and Judaism are two distinctly separate things. Related yes, but there are as many Christian Zionists as there are Jewish Zionists.

        In fact there are many Jews living in Israel that oppose the expansionist/colonialist views of the Zionist ideology. Much the same as there were people in the United States that opposed the doctrine of Manifest Destiny that led to the destruction of an entire nation of native peoples.

        But to bring religious ideology in to the topic of Nuclear power is a distraction. We should instead be focusing on government and corporate policies that:

        a) allowed this disaster to happen in the first place;
        b) refuse to acknowledge the severity of the ongoing disaster;
        c) refuse to take every step possible to mitigate the ongoing damage to all life on this planet.

      • Cologne Cathedral Cologne Cathedral

        Right.

        And I answered the person, who attacked me, that I am not antisemitic. And if you read carefully, you will find out, that I spoke of Zionism and not of Judaism.

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          And if you a false document to support your anti-Zionism written by an anti-Semitic warmonger, just what is your solution to your ani-Zionism? Are you proposing war? And what weapons would you use?

          Zionists did not bomb Fukushima. This is where you are wrong. Your scapegoating for the technological and management failures of nuclear energy can't be hidden by lying and blaming the failures on non-existent terrorists. There are over 100 nuclear accidents. This technology should be banned. Then we wouldn't have to listen to made up conspiracies.

          The Japanese are controlling the US nuclear industry and the IAEA and the world nuclear industry. And controlling the many cover-ups and lying about the radiation contamination and the radiation health risks. When everyone is dead it will be the Japanese who are responsible for their many failed experiments (Monju, for example, and Rokkasho nuclear reprossing plant, and AP100 nuclear reactors, etc.). But when everyone is dead, there will no longer anyone around to care.

          I hope you are not war-mongering in the Middle East. You could wipe everyone out in the Middle East, and there would still be nuclear accidents and an ever-rising so-called "background radiation" around the world. There should be published differences of background radiation before 1940 and today's so-called background radiation.

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            Let's place the blame where it belongs, on nuclear technology. Let's ban nuclear technology. Everyone knows that pure uranium and depleted uranium are extremely radioactive and lethal for a million years. These are the weapons of mass destruction.

            Nuclear energy and uranium mining and thorium mining are also weapons of mass destruction.

            Please stop throwing out red herrings and stop all use of nuclear technology even if the tipping point was already reached in 1945.

          • Cologne Cathedral Cologne Cathedral

            Dear Anne,

            please tell me: How can you get to the result, that I am not german and not anti-nuke. I came here, to recommend the DVD "Quietly into desaster" of Holger Strohm, as I know the story of Mr. Strohm, who was fought against heavily by the nuke-industrie.

            And please think for a moment about the question, which country suffered most from the WW of the 20th century in percentage of death to the total population. I guess it was germany. And the "people" (they are no people! according to Shlomo Sand) who won most are the people of Israel, they won a whole countryside. Cui bono?

            The WW of the 20th Century is a massive Crime, and all Crimes must be financed, especially wars. As the Rothchild family owns 500 trillion (estimated by experts), what is btw more thean the 200 trillion officially announced total world property.

            So I would have a reason to fight Zionism (that runs the banks and MUST have financed WW whatsoever), especially if I am a german. And the war against Germany goes on today (Payments for all the other EU-members (Germany is the only country in EU with a surplus in the balance to other countries) and mass immigration and wages dumping. If you visit the biggist shopping mile in Europe (Schildergasse) half of the peolpe that come your way do not look like what we call "Bio-Deutsche" (german-origined). And these visitors behave like animals, especially the moslems that kill germans with a kick against the head for NO REASON!).
            The background…

          • Cologne Cathedral Cologne Cathedral

            … is, that people with exceptional low IQ are near to madness or psychological illness. So these people, who kill other people the described way are mostoften very low skilled.

            Now let's get back to the subject here:

            I found out, that the reason for the existance of the nuclear industrie is the atomic bomb and not producing energy, as we have several ways to produce energy without NPPs. The reason for the atomic bomb is the concentration of power in just a few hands. That is what you need for a world dictatorship. Everyone that doesn't want to subdue, needs to play that nuke-game. Japan announced to do so on March, 8th 2011. The circumstances of the "9.0" quake, which wasn't 9.0, show similarities to other earth quakes, that are called to be HAARP-triggered. I am not convinced that HAARP existes, as claimed, but I am convinced that men is able to produce earth quakes of the 311-kind …

            If we are honest to ourselfs, we know that Zionist rule the world. We must know that Zionism funds the good and the bad. So Zionism is not just the banks but aswell the Mafia. Most peolpe don't understand that.

            I gonna tell them … that's all

            • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

              CC,
              I understand what your concerns are and some of them may have perceived value but you should take these comments to the off-topic section as Anne suggests.

              Anything is possible inside a world that is brain dead by a very cleverly created design…

              • Cologne Cathedral Cologne Cathedral

                Anne and me did that already.

                People need to inform themselves about Zionism.
                Someone who states it al really clear is David Duke.

                http://davidduke.com/

                • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                  good stuff Mark…

                • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                  have to say Cologne Cathedral, though I concur with your sentiments about David Duke (I like him and what he has to say), this is not the forum for such dialog. You (and anyone else for that matter) would be well advised to move such commentary to the area (Off Topic forum) that's been provided by this site's administration. Regardless of one's political position, it's imperative that this venue not degenerate into in-congruent subject matter…

        • Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut; Arabic: صهيونية‎, Șahyouniyyah) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel.[1] Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority in their own nation, and to be liberated from antisemitic discrimination, exclusion, and persecution that had historically occurred in the diaspora. What the hell does Israel have to do with Fukushima? Japan built the reactor on fault lines and Japan created the corrupt political system that allowed this to happen. Are you saying it was Israels fault for the giant tsunami and earthquake which consumed the plant and caused its destruction? CC, you are clearly not interested in joining in on our discussion, but rather choose to create a new discussion. Thanks for showing us all who you are. No more of my time will be spent on you, CC. Over and out.

          • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

            sorry Mark. I wanted to compliment you on your measured response to Cologne Cathedral. In my zeal to respond to you, I unfortunately responded within the wrong header.
            Again, good stuff on your part…

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      CC, who do you blame for the cheapo cleanup throughout Japan and specifically at Fukushima? Who is dumping nuclear waste into the ocean from Japan even before 3/11? Whose decision was it to not have an adequate evacuation zone? Who decided to incinerate nuclear waste all over Japan? Who used seawater to cool the reactors? Who sealed the vents so that they could not be opened manually? Who planned the landfill site for Fukushima Daiichi? Who built reactors #3 and #4? Who decided to use the cracked reactor for Unit #4, cracked even before installed at the nuclear power plant? Who falsified all the results of the failed safety tests? Who put MOX fuel in Unit #3's reactor?

      The Olympics will never take place in 2020 because the Japanese will never be able to clean up the contamination in Tokyo which will be increasing, as is the case of every nuclear accident, for the next 250,000 years.

      • If A Haiku Hid Music If A Haiku Hid Music

        The issue of the 2020 Olympics being awarded to Japan is a most fascinating one. If nothing else, I believe it will help to draw even more international attention to the ongoing contamination of the land, sea and air.

        And when the financial costs of constructing facilities for the games begins to come to light, this should certainly spark renewed protest among the Japanese public.

        Spending money on games instead of cleaning up the Nuclear disaster, instead of paying for people in harm's way to be properly relocated, instead of paying farmers and fisherman for losing their livelihood.

        I see much the same thing happening as what people in Brazil have been doing: protesting the exorbitant amount money spent on the World Cup when the country is in such a dire financial situation.

        This could end up becoming a blessing for all those trying to call attention to this ongoing nightmare. But who knows, seven years is an infinity in the 24-hr news cycle world we now inhabit.

        • or-well

          @If A Haiku Hid Music, so true, 7 years is a long time.

          There's 2 Winter Olys & 1 Summer Oly before 2020.
          Three 5-ring circuses to distract.
          I doubt Tokyo's early preparations will get much coverage.
          I have no doubt there will be an added energy to the "all is well" spin.
          None of that changes the fact of Fukushima, nor will it make it go away. The fact the Games have been awarded to Tokyo will be another inescapable aspect to the Fukushima story.
          Each of the Games between now and then will be another chance to draw attention to Fukushima and the plight of Japan's nuclear refugees.

  • We Not They Finally

    It seems very likely that Japan will at anytime suffer a hydro volcanic nuclear explosion and cease to exist..If Japan sinks into the ocean a massive tidal wave could destroy much of the west coast and beyond.Then who wins with all this ignorance and greed? who wins?

    • The corium flows are now sitting in water, whether they're still in the badly cracked basements or are now below them in the middle of the groundwater 'river'. This means the frightening possibility of a hydrogeologic steam explosion no longer exists. Nor has it ever eisted, given the fact that the site is built on landfill and there is no non-porous caprock that could have held pressure at any point.

      In fact, I can't figure out why they still think they need to be pumping water down the holes, since the flows are entirely in water. Wasteful busywork, just making the mess bigger. The basements, it should be noted, are below sea level. So is the groundwater 'river' flow.

      • hbjon hbjon

        There is a phenomenon I like to call "self enrichment from natural environmental forces". Where erosion and gravity bring the elements back together again. Thou unlikely, not out of the realm of possibility. More likely if corium is in a liquid state.

        • I cannot imagine it is still appreciably molten if it's in water. It's still hot, of course, and will be for god only knows how long. But not hot enough to be actively melting what it's in contact with, not molten enough to be actively moving without the aid of the water flow.

          Problem is that the groundwater is flowing, and exiting into the ocean in and outside of the lagoon. It is carrying that 'crust' of the corium that would be powder and scale if it were dry, but is just a mess of nasty crap taken by the water. I am not seeing any realistic way for them to stop it.

          • hbjon hbjon

            I can conceive of it. If the fuel experienced China Syndrome, water would not ever come into contact with molten fuel elements. That simply cannot happen. Instead, a very thick layer of moderating material will insulate the fuel and transfer heat outwardly through solid substances like glass, salt, boron, and other materials borrowed from the environment that have a high melting point. Fissures in the crust allows for releases to happen when small criticalities form within the China Syndrome. Erosion of glass by water is difficult. Slowly the entire mass of the China Syndrome will displace the material beneath it (gravitation is weird).

  • isogoodhumans

    Being anti-semitic and anti-zionist are two different things.

    Before having an argument, maybe do some reading?

    Not all Jews are Zionists.

    For example, telling a white person "I hate neocons" is not the same as "I hate Whites"

  • ftlt

    These attack on Japan are unfounded and racist IMO…

    No one country is responsible for this tragedy…