Radio: Sinkhole potential at Fukushima plant from pumping up groundwater? Nuclear Expert: Yeah, that’s a very good point — May very well happen if workers take out too much water from an area (AUDIO)

Published: September 25th, 2013 at 12:01 pm ET
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54 comments


Title: Dean Wilkie Interview (Part 1)
Source: 89.9 FM WERU News Report
Host: Amy Browne
Date: August 6, 2013

At 28:00 in

Amy Browne, host: Touching back on something you said a minute ago, Dean, about pumping out groundwater — Pumping out groundwater sometimes leads to sinkholes. That potential happening around this seems like it would be disastrous.

Dean Wilkie, nuclear reactor operations, management, construction and plant engineering at a U.S. Department of Energy test reactor in Idaho: Yeah, that’s a very good point. […] At Fukushima now what we’re seeing that all of this work that they’ve been doing with these walls, and then it’s causing the water to back up, it’s starting to saturate soil that’s underneath the buildings and in adjacent areas around the buildings. And so to couple that with the fact that there are known fractures in that soil — it was very obvious during the earthquake — so in our opinion, the water is beginning to saturate the soil. And if they do pump extensively, taking  100 tons of water out of a focused area, they may very well have that problem.

Full broadcast here

Published: September 25th, 2013 at 12:01 pm ET
By

54 comments

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  5. Senior Scientist: Fukushima giant ‘ice wall’ to make crisis worse — Radioactive release into ocean from saltwater intrusion — Side effects ‘not good at all’ (AUDIO) September 22, 2013

54 comments to Radio: Sinkhole potential at Fukushima plant from pumping up groundwater? Nuclear Expert: Yeah, that’s a very good point — May very well happen if workers take out too much water from an area (AUDIO)

  • Fukushima appears to be like a man-made nuclear volcano.

    From reading all this news for almost three years now, it increasingly seems that Japan has achieved the dubious honor of having created the first MAN-MADE NUCLEAR VOLCANO, to be spewing nuclear lava for a very long time to come.

    And they picked an area that is already beset with earthquakes and volcanoes, making it all the more exciting, and ensuring that this catastrophe will only get worse every day.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://ottersandsciencenews.blogspot.ca/

    • I posted an interesting link on the Canada-US section of this site, but the Enenews report is already two days old, so it may not be noticed by readers.

      So here it goes again:

      Updated list of emerging nations in pursuit of nuclear reactors
      ===============================================================

      See: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Others/Emerging-Nuclear-Energy-Countries/#.UkL8NqFraM8

      • ftlt

        Tracy: Great link…. It is stunning the power the Nuke Firststers have…

        Madness for profit… FUFU and all energy is political..

        Look at the latest knobs for profit Govt Canada has… Endorsing pollution, greed for greed's sake and endless global war for profit… They seem to be out to prove they are as exceptional as Obama has recently called AmeriKa and AmeriKans again.. (puke)

        Will you be changing Canada to Kanada soon or has that already taken place???

        To say, Energy is not political is a brainless head in the oil sands statement… It is all about politics – mostly bad politics…

        Thanks again… Why are there 2 boards???

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        Love it!
        "In January 2008, the French Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) indicated that it would pay attention to new nuclear power projects in countries with no experience in this area. It said that the development of nuclear industry in a country needs at least 10 to 15 years in order to build up skills in safety and control and to define a regulatory framework."

        Yes, "mental illness" is now rampant and now normal within the construct of the designed by others Zeitgeist Matrix!

        How long/years did the countries experiencing Simi Valley, TMI, Chernobyl and now Fukushima have under their belts before their Nuclear Plants failed and as then the cancer rates spiked/skyrocketed for each of their respective countries?

        Really.. who is in charge of educating the world's current populations? The devil!

        Bat-shit crazy I say we all are..

      • Nuclear is dead. All those stilling buying into the lies are also dead, in consciousness and morals/ethics/empathy/knowledge.

        A Green Road – Jeremy Rifkin – Five Reasons Why Nuclear Power Is A Dead Ender Business Model
        http://youtu.be/WBZTLWHc8zU

      • Spookydark

        As far as I'm concerned, that list is bullshit. First, they number Italy among the 45 emerging nuclear energy countries. Then they say "For countries listed immediately below in bold, nuclear power prospects are more fully dealt with in specific country papers". Finally, inside the article, you read that the nuclear energy was rejected twice, by means of two referendums. The first one in 1987 and the second in 2011 with 97.64% of people voting against nuclear. Does this mean to be an "emerging" nuclear energy country? Omitting to point out this with the necessary force is like enjoying the usual blah blah.

        Also, the article should have noticed that in 2011 the nuclear power was only wanted by the elderly faun Berlusconi and a handful of his bootlickers. In facts, 98% of people voted against them. Don't you have anything like the direct legal device known as "refendum institution" to reject nuclear power there? Does one need to plead congressmen in the USA, earth of freedom?

    • soern

      thanks for citing.
      I don't know, have You read my comment some days ago?
      There are 3 Possibilities:
      When Cores reach/meet Magma in about 7-8 years,
      i mean melting down speed is about 8 km/Year and distance surface to Magma at Daiichi is about 80 km so we can guess about 10 Years from 0311 cores will reach Magma after having melted glassified tubes behind them.
      Case 1: Cores explode immediately at Magma meeting point causing
      northern Japan to be eliminated completely uncluding all
      northern japaness NPPs beeing washed into sea…
      – sounds bad i think

      Case 2: Cores explode after beeing pushed back to surface through
      that gklassified tubes by magma which is under pressure
      always. I can't imagine this was not a globally extinct
      of most of all live on earth, as of course all other NPPs
      fall like dominoes then as nobody will be there to
      controll them.
      – Worst case unless a vulcano builds up over all and
      might blow out the nuclear fire after a while

      Case 3: Cores are pushed back on surface and don't explode at all
      and are followed by Magma covering everything beeing
      nuclear at Daiichi, creating the first known man triggered
      vulcano which we can call Mt. Daiichi then, beeing still
      alive. – This case probably might be the best we can hope.

      Anything else won't work.
      Nature ONLY can fix it!

      MEN ARE MONKEYS – NOT MORE AND NOT LESS!

  • ftlt

    Ground Water vs water table thinking here, again…

    The bulk of the pumping is shallow pumping removing surface applied water from a saturated water table – I would think

    They are discussing 2 different things here.. An Apple vs An Orange

    As is, the dangers of the disturbing and weakening of the foundations sub-surface – as Arnie and others have discussed – is quite different from a sink hole…

    While a sink may be a possibility (??), I would think by and large this is a case of misapplied terminology and poor visualization of what is really occurring on the ground by a talking-head running amuck and sensationalizing again for air time or column inches..

    • soern

      right,
      they never can dry out that area nor cause a sinkhole.
      Bullshit in order to be mentioned at all.
      Oh Look! A MONKEY!

  • or-well

    Built on a sponge, lacking a moat,
    if it gets too wet or dries right out
    the plant may sink. It sure won't float.
    Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    Remember this, if you will folks;
    all their nuke plants are on the coast.

    There's pressures to restart on the Host
    of the coming Olympics Of The Lost –
    those sad people suffering the most;
    Fukushima's Living Ghosts
    and The Children Who'll Die For Nuclear's Boasts.

  • hbjon hbjon

    Filter out the heavy isotopes like Uranium and Plutonium and pump it back down the hole. Problem with settling tanks is when the hot stuff settles it does damage to the tank. So, install inline filters and replace frequently, pump back down the hole. Repeat for 10^13 years.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "so in our opinion, the water is beginning to saturate the soil."

    It is not only the problem of the water TEPCO is pumping in..the ground is saturating from below.

    It is not beginning to saturate..saturation is well advanced.

    Groundwater reached the ground surface in one more observation hole
    Sept.4 2013

    http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/09/groundwater-reached-the-ground-surface-in-one-more-observation-hole/

    • ftlt

      HoR… The saturation is from cooling waters applied from above not from an upsurge of water originating from below – is my take…

      I have heard about the diverted river… There is little to no reason for this to have suddenly become a problem…

      When clearly, we know of the source of most of the water on the site is the coolant water..

      To me, it is clearly the leakage from the compromised containment and site drainage systems of these coolant waters that is causing the growing saturation issue.. It like a giant broken sink leaking or a clogged drain… The water no longer is being removed as it was designed to be removed..

      This is what Arnie and others were discussing in terms of soil stability..

      I don't know where these others are coming from – other than they have mixed potential groundwater contamination issues with soil soil structural issues and let their imaginations soar to vast pumping caused sink holes and underground rivers suddenly rising up into spouting natural fountains of radioactive waters..

      Sounds like stuff from Rense or Prison Planet's most out of round contributors…

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    This is the more likely scenario.

    TV: Warnings the worst is yet to come at Fukushima — Deep underneath nuclear plant a massive pool of contamination is believed to be heading toward Pacific Ocean (VIDEO)
    Sept 19 2013.

    http://enenews.com/tv-warnings-the-worst-is-yet-to-come-at-fukushima-deep-underneath-nuclear-plant-a-massive-pool-of-contamination-is-believed-to-be-heading-toward-pacific-ocean-video

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    The potential is for severe subsidence and inundation of the plant.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Well I guess most Americans did not see any of these videos on mainstream news but surely the/our scientists did.
    http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=liquefaction+japan+after+quake+youtube&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    • ftlt

      I believe, in California most folks are aware of the term and its implications.. They choose to ignore it.. Certainly the ones on property and housing in the worst of areas do ignore it… They will suffer from the Big One when it arrives

      However, I don't think the general videos of EQ non specific incidents really can be automatically applied to the FUFU plant..

      Actually, the plants structure survived fairly well from the EQ..

      Only problem, the system it contained did not survive the EQ/Surge very well.. YIKES!!!!

      I really do believe, we should be careful of mixing and matching engineering, environment and time frame issues on here ..

      They just add confusion to an already purposely confused problem…

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        If our boys and girls can make these kinds of maps, then they need to make one that glows with the radiation contamination spew happening worldwide immediately.
        http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-map-illustrates-air-pollution-death-frequency-160523115.html

        The major problem I see here is that with fine particulate being in the air and Hansen's propensity to fudge figures and to be a global warming alarmist, all air travel throughout the world needs to stop immediately. All these jets fly in the jet streams worldwide leaving behind streams of fine particulate that simply drops onto all the populations residing below or downwind.

        Another Catch 22 brought on by our technological progress…

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    Known fact there are fractures in that soil? Why won't they admit the obvious. The "known fractures in the soil" are corium fissure cracks!!!
    They couldn't tell the truth even though their lives DO depend on it!!! Spend the 500 mill you were going to waste on freezing hell over(that will never work) on evacuating more of your people in harms way.

  • The bottom line is Tepco is in far over its head. Nobody wants to take a lead and fix it properly lest they get blamed for the mess. Japan government wants the reactors started up again to recoup losses and bolster the economy short term. Luckily the people of Japan are pushing back. They are willing to spend more money on the Olympics then fixing Fukushima. Why? Because radiation is invisible and those that get cancer will be too busy with treatment and enjoying their last days to try to sue Tepco/Japan. Cancer rates have been increasing before Fukushima and no public outcry so besides the few aware people here at enenews nobody knows and nobody cares. Obummer and Harper(my Canadian PM) are traitors to their people for ignoring this tragedy. But we all know that government takes care of their buddies. We are not their buddies. Its a plutocracy for sure.

  • guinness69

    Would it not be possible to pump in cement and when it sets extract it there by taking out the core

    • soern

      nice idea.
      cores are about 20 km down now.
      would be really nice it was so easy.
      read above please.
      thx

      • guinness69

        No one knows where the cores are really.

        • soern

          No one tries to know.
          If you want to know, combine the hints.
          I.e. i read about an experiment where "Melt Through" Cores need
          1 Hour for melting through 0,3m Concrete.
          Concrete Foundation of Daiichi's NPPs was 8m each.
          So after 26,6 Hours Cores were through all concrete. Ok?
          Then you have 800 m Mud and loose sandstone which could be
          melted through at least with triple speed. Agreed?
          Now there comes sandstone to melt through and 2 and a half years are gone.
          Your estimation please.

          Sorry for TEPCO does not tell us were the cores are, it's not my fault.

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            I respectfully disagree, and am sure the D.O.E., N.R.A. (Japan), and other entities know with reasonable certainty where the coriums are. The technology to find them has existed for a long time.

            If they don't know, well, joke's on me.

            • soern

              with "No one tries to know" i meant all people who do not combine things on their own.
              Of course D.O.E, N.R.A., japanese Government and TEPCO
              know where the corioms are – but they won't tell us.
              Why? People would panic if everybody knew:
              "ok coriums are at 21.87 km from surface now,
              time for show down is in 7 – 8 Years, keep cool"

              Also they seem to rely on that vulcano scenario because
              that thing they hide would appear after foreign forces would arrive to help them, so they play for time.
              Maybe they expect that vulcano event even earlier than me by knowing the facts.

              They play a show which works like:
              Look, we cool the coriums.
              So they are cool now.
              Which we call "Cold shutdown"

              Of course radiation readings do not fit that show.
              So they do "something completely different"
              Like an ice wall which is permeable.

              The only sensible thing they do is to try to get fuel out of SFP4 as it could tumble down before that vulcano like natural solution will take place.

              Thats my humble opinion and i dont believe coriums are contained at all now.

  • pkjn

    Fukushima Daiichi Leaked 43.8 Terabecquerels To The Sea In Last 2 Years
    September 23rd, 2013 SimplyInfo
    60 GBq of Cs137 & Sr90 directly go out to ocean outside of the Fukushima Daiichi port daily
    It also does not include other isotopes such as cesium 134, tritium, radioactive silver, cobalt 60, ruthenium, plutonium or the many other substances known to have been leaking out of the plant.
    These daily leaks to the sea may explain why contamination in fish has not gone down.
    http://www.fukuleaks.org/web/?p=11467
    http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Meetings/PDFplus/2013/cn207/Presentations/1028-Aoyama.pdf

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      43 TBq is small compared to total release of 15 to 30 PBq. And this is yet small compared to atmospheric nuke testing; 290 PBq. But atmospheric testing might have been much higher, in the exa becquerel range. So this is what concerns me; The power brokers will say to themselves that the world population kept growing just fine after atmospheric testing, and we are only at 1/12 that level…so why waste a lot of money on this thing?

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Many thanks, Admin., for yet another reason to Extend the Impermeable Wall in a rectangle around Units1-4!

    If you enclose the plants, groundwater level can be strictly controlled within the perimeter of the Extended Impermeable Wall, by pumping into the ground more or less water as needed.

    If you allow only pumps to control the groundwater level, in back of the incomplete and ineffective Impermeable Wall as now planned, you invite a number of problems:
    1. There is no barrier to the inflow of groundwater from uphill into the immediate area of the Reactor Ruins.
    2. If too much groundwater is removed, contaminated water, which has been in contact with melted nuclear fuel in the ground under the reactors, can flow backwards into the wells, and be pumped directly into the ocean.
    3. If the tanks uphill from the groundwater pumps spill highly contaminated water, the pumping of groundwater into the Pacific Ocean may have to be suspended.

    Plus, now,
    4. Sinkholes may form, due to subsidence of land from which too much groundwater has been removed.
    If you think the "decommissioning" of Fukushima reactors will already be more than a little difficult, just imagine one of them reduced to a smouldering pile of rubble in a sinkhole!

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    Mark is right, leaders of nations are no more than high paid liars that protects the crooks & we are the cattle left to be pushed into early graves so they live the high life! When the planet is no longer able to support the slaves they need they will depend on robots to serve them, if it last that long. If unit 4 goes, no one will stop 5 & 6 from losing power & burning also taking out the world's population! The house of cards falls on everyone!

    • soern

      yes, Mark is right!
      And "Leaders", You and me and "Cattle", ALL ARE MONKEYS.
      Not more and not less.
      We're NOT CROWN OF CREATION!
      As ws lost our fur we had to start beeing criminal monkeys
      in order to survive at all.
      Without fur you need more exploitation of nature as other
      animals – it is our history – it is WE!
      Thx for your attention.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes, the Cards of Wisdom have been/were lost some time ago…

    • soern

      .. and been found by a wizard again, but ..
      .. (s)he could not read them..
      .. very sorry..

      sorry, off topic
      just an illustration

  • guinness69

    We are now within two months of what may be humankind’s most dangerous moment since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    Humankind’s Most Dangerous Moment: Fukushima Fuel Pool at Unit 4. “This is an Issue of Human Survival.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/humankinds-most-dangerous-moment-fukushima-fuel-pool-at-unit-4/5350779

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    .. 🙂

  • Sol Man

    Too much water or too little water; is that a light we see at the end of the tunnel?

  • zardoz2012 zardoz2012

    I predict that the next nuclear catastrophe due to meltdown will happen in India.

  • ftlt

    I think Pakistan is along with India is also at risk – high terror and war risk add on here

    The problem fraught one in Egypt is scary – politically instability as a ramp up too..

    Iran's EQ damaged one??? And the threatened insane Zionist terror assault threat is very high – in fact, some have already taken place… Can you say, FIRST STRIKE???

    Then there are the dozens of GE FUFU bottom fed designs spotted around the world – esp in the USA … Arnie thinks these are a huge threat anywhere they are found….

    Wonder if Vegas or LadBrokes has odds on this…

    One thing that is certain, more are on the way, unless, they are shut down and a safe place or way is found to store the waste.. It is just a question of when and how bad – proven not to be an if over and over now