Published: June 15th, 2011 at 6:23 pm ET
|
The Battle of Chernobyl, 2006:
At 3:15 in; 2nd Chernobyl explosion “would have wiped out half of Europe” – Governments kept secret for decades
At 32:55 in; Minsk, 320 km away, would have been razed and Europe uninhabitable
Embedding Disabled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o
Published: June 15th, 2011 at 6:23 pm ET
|
sending...
Tokyo is what? 200km away or so? Why is this potential vaporization of millions not on the news anywhere!!!
Report Comment
Because “potential” is the operational factor in your question. It’s not nice to comment on that which, “could” be.
We must wait for pass tense.
Report Comment
It would not have “vaporized” millions.
Way too far away for that.
However, many millions would have died from radiation effects soon after.
Your intent is clear though.
Report Comment
A question arises concerning the “underground water.” Would an explosion still occur if the water had a positive outlook on life and, was happy?
Report Comment
good question… I have to say in order to make the water table happy you need everyone in Tokyo to send their prayers and positive thoughts. If it still explodes, that’s because too many people carry negative thoughts and are unhappy. Happy water eliminates all radiation, the same way happy people do. So the happier we are the sooner this crisis will end… it seems quite self evident.
Report Comment
And to be Happy is to behave as Honourable Japanese Citizen.
To be Scare Monger is not Honourable.
Report Comment
Pour some McCallen 18 on the ground and let that soak into the water. That always seems to make MY water happy! Of course, my water is frozen in little cube shapes, but I’m pretty sure it is very happy!
Report Comment
Let’s ask the Dali Lama
Report Comment
Yes you just need to be happy. Nothing to see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic
Report Comment
One day non-happiness leading to radiological illness might be too costly for the state, considered reckless self-endangerment and punishable by forced quarantine.
Hopefully, the government will set up special “workshops” to show us how to embark on the perilous journey to that officially-sanctioned mental state of bliss and well-being.
(Complete with whips and chains).
Report Comment
No…CLOWNS with whips and chains.
Report Comment
Like that CLOWN from the Alan Wake music video. The Taken CLOWNS with whips and chains.
Report Comment
Saw this video on 18th of march. very good…
Report Comment
Fukushima is the equivalent of Chernobyl X 4,000. With the addition of a seemingly endless water table, with the ocean being right there, how does one NOT think that this could be the end of the world as we know it?
There is also no way to make this go away with a happy face or thinking good thoughts.
Report Comment
salt water..meets magma makes a free sodium reactor in the sea lasting long time.
sodium reactor cover up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAHmaEs5cYU&feature=channel_video_title
Report Comment
Huh?
Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.
Here’s an article on what a “sodium reactor” is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-cooled_fast_reactor
Report Comment
I think the BP robots will be in play before this is all over, sheesh!
Report Comment
3/11 is without a doubt the date of “the end of the world as we know it” Everything has changed and will continue to change. The question is “will life be able to avoid or adapt to those changes?”
Most adaptataion takes a very slow ans steady generational course, even if this takes years to play out it’s moving quickly. Far more destruction than Chernobyl.
Report Comment
There is presumably water in contact with the top of the corium blobs right now – the water they pump in all the time leaks out the reactor vessels, down onto the blobs, following the same path the corium blobs did.
So if the corium blobs drill through the concrete to the water table, as they get closer to the water table the blobs heat up the rock or sand or whatever above the water gradually.
I don’t see how you get a sudden flash heating unless hot corium falls onto cold water, and there is no mechanism for that.
Also, as I have pointed out in the past, molten corium blobs lack the conditions necessary for fission. The enrichment of the fuel in the reactors was too low, and there is no moderator once the fuel is in a blob. So there is only the decay heat left at this point.
The corium at Chernobyl did not fission either, once it became a blob, but it was damned hot from the accident. Nevertheless, that blob only drilled down 2 meters into the concrete in the basement of the plant before stopping.
If the corium does (or did) reach the water table at Fukushima, and that’s not out of the question, it will indeed cause more contamination to spread. Just how much is hard to say. I guess we’ll find out.
Report Comment
I think a big consideration is that it keeps on creating contamination. Like a sore it just keeps getting bigger if we don’t heal it and so far I haven’t heard of a plan that anyone is undertaking to hold back the contamination. So if we are talking about material that is really infinite in terms of human life, then there will be an infinite amount of contamination.
Report Comment
In an earlier comment some days ago I advocated that a massive trench and concrete backfill operation be started. This would essentially be an underground wall around the four afflicted reactors, including on the sea side, and form the basis for eventual above ground entombment once the heat of the corium is reduced, and the spent fuel is secured in some manner (robotic extraction into dry casks?)
If the water table goes very far down then this might not be an option, but it still might minimize the spread of contamination. Drilling under the reactors and backfilling with concrete might be necessary, depending on where the corium ends up. It can’t keep going down forever, and if Chernobyl is a guide it probably won’t go too much further than it has. I hope.
Report Comment
extraction into dry casks… these used rods have to cool for 5 to 8 tears to be cool enough to put into dry casks !
The corium at Chernobyl was dug underneath making a tunnel then a room tank like to hold liquid nitrogen and that under the concrete floor where the corium is, is what is keeping it manageability of cool and stopped the burn through by reduxing the tempature of the corium !
This can not be done in Japan being so close to the water table and liquefaction of earth from quakes and already so much water put on and washed the soil with radiactivty saturated into the soil !
Report Comment
@drfox, – Prof. Neutron is correct…
I watched the 2006 documentary on Chernobyl. Yes, they did dig a tunnel and small room underneath the cement containment in which they intended to insert some kind of liquid nitrogen cooling device. But that never happened. The corium never melted through the last portion of the concrete.
“The cement slab below the reactor core is heating up and in danger of cracking.
The magma is threatening to seep through.
The water the firemen poured during the first hours of the disaster has pooled below the slab.
If the radioactive magma makes contact with the water, it could set off a second explosion even more devastating than the first. p. 15″
“We’d drained the water from under the reactor, but something absolutely had to be done, something had to be put underneath the reactor to keep the magma from seeping down, something had to keep it from falling in.
Nothing is stopping the magma from seeping even deeper into the sandy subsoil.
And beneath the reactor lays a huge stretch aquifer that supplies the entire country with water.
What worried us the most was that the entire mass would sink down and reach the ground water, which then would pollute the rivers Pripyat, then Dniepre, Kiev…
The Black Sea… p. 18″
“The miners accomplish their mission (a month later), but the cooling system is never set up below the reactor.
The underground room is finally filled with cement to solidify the structure.
The official position is that each miner received 30 to 60 roentgens, but survivors claim they received up to 5 times that amount.
It is estimated that a fourth of these 10,000 men died before the age of 40.
2,500 lives lost that don’t appear in any official statistic. p. 20″
2006 Documentary On Chernobyl – the text
http://www.say2.org/the-battle-of-chernobyl/01.htm
Report Comment
I too have heard different stories and seen the docu also, Havn’t been there to look see, Most all the other things mentioned are right in the different stories also, just don’t know but ether way could be correct, Thx for pointing it out though ! I posted more below !
Report Comment
I’m not sure that people can do heavy construction work under the present contamination levels at the plant. That would required skilled and unskilled laborers willing to work long hours and die for this cause and they might not be able to work long so there would have to be a great number of people involved. A friend who was in the russian army when the chernobyl disaster struck told me that soliders were given an option die now gun placed to their heads) or go in there do your 15 minutes and maybe live or die later….that’s how that mess was taken care of. Not many folks lined up to fix this problem…
Report Comment
Gundersen also recommended a moat filled with zeolite.
Report Comment
From what I’ve read it is possible since molten corium is rather viscous, there are unmixed zones in the blob that are still locally critical and thus still generates heat until it’s dispersed which could cause a ‘prompt criticality’.
Report Comment
Yes it still HOT HOT HOT !
And yes it can go re-critical at any time small or BIG time, but by doing what they did made it more manageable, and it still putting out lots of radiation even managed they built the sarcophagus over it and now are planning to build a new one over that one that they finally raise/borrowed the money to do because it was leaking more and more causing a threat to the EU and beyond !
Report Comment
The sarcophagus locked in 200 tons of radioactive corium, 30 tons of highly contaminated dust and 16 tons of uranium and plutonium.[1] In 1996 it was deemed impossible to repair the inside of the sarcophagus as radiation levels were estimated to be as high as 10,000 röntgens per hour (normal background radiation in cities is usually around 20-50 microröntgens per hour).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant_sarcophagus
Report Comment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster#Reactor_status_summary
Does anyone know where central storage is at Fuku? Accd to Wikipedia (link above), there are 6,375
fuel assemblies there. Are these still on the premises?
”
At the time of the accident, the units and central storage facility contained the following numbers of fuel assemblies:[44]
Location Unit 1 Unit 2 Unit 3 Unit 4 Unit 5 Unit 6 Central Storage
Reactor Fuel Assemblies 400 548 548 0 548 764 0
Spent Fuel Assemblies 292 587 514 1331 946 876 6375
New Fuel Assemblies[45] 100 28 52 204 48 64 N/A
Report Comment
alexa
Been nothing in the news about them being moved but the crans to move them may be damaged and structual damage keeps them from getting to use of outside crans !
Report Comment
One of the differences between Cernobyl and Fukushima is that a lot of the Cernobyl fuel exploded or burned out – a small portion was left in the reactor. At Fukushima, we are dealing with much bigger blobs in full criticality which include also spent fuel pools (and most of the stuff in the reactors moved down in the soil as part of meltthrough.
Tacomagroove was right about a lot of things so far – there is a very high likelihood that there will be another explosion which will be devastating for Tokyo.
Logic says there could be a bigger explosion (more than 50% probability). I remember you said in one of your previous posts that adding water for a few months will cool things down – so illogical: at Cernobyl 25 years later the blob remains in the reactor (much smaller amount than at Fukushima) are still very hot. Basic Physics and logic are very important when analyzing Fukushima.
Also, logic says there is no way the spent fuel pool in R4 will be standing for a longer time; unless of course the spent fuel goes melthrough to the groundwater and the walls somehow are still standing.
The Japanese should hire some experts who think logically and creatively about solutions, not try illogical things to see if they work.
Report Comment
Chernobyl Depending on different stories again the amount of fuel that exploded varies from 25% to 75 ! Some say the top of the Mass and others say more ?
Chernobyl building damage look almost identical to # 3 @ Fuk !
# 3 may have exploded as we saw in March with the Mushroom cloud.
The Mox reactor !
Some able country may send in a nuke strike and people will think it exploded !
Report Comment
In Cernobyl’s case the smoke (radiation) was quite visible – the graphite in the corium burnt with uranium & others for 17 days or more – I would go for closer to 75%. Plus we have pictures of the elephant’s foot – it dosn’t look like a lot of tones of melted corium were there.
Report Comment
It’s a shame they did not get something close the the foot to have a frame of reference to size of the foot !
Report Comment
Chernobyl was also not in use for very long and thus much cooler than Fukushima but as xrdfox said it is still very hot so you can imagine how hot the corium blobs at Fukushima must be. They also may be crusted over with salt making cooling even more difficult plus over variables.
Report Comment
Prof N, you said this before and I find it confusing:
“molten corium blobs lack the conditions necessary for fission. The enrichment of the fuel in the reactors was too low, and there is no moderator once the fuel is in a blob.”
You seem to be suggesting that the moderator is necessary for criticality; whereas my understanding is that the moderator is used to control/moderate criticality. E.G. the moderator at Chernobyl was a system of graphite rods which were inserted (to decrease fission) or withdrawn (to increase fission) as required.
I would have thought that without a moderator the corium ‘blob’ indeed does technically have the capacity to regain criticality, regardless of residual heat loss due to cooling over time. (It would however require a cessation of the cooling process brought about by the constant flow of water over/around the ‘blob’. )
Report Comment
I also realise now the point you are trying to make with this statement:
“The enrichment of the fuel in the reactors was too low”
Too low for what? Fission? How then would the reactor produce enough heat to be viable?
So I see now what you are doing…
Report Comment
Stephen you are right they can go critical.
Report Comment
Prof N has tried to downplay this from his/her first post. As long as Iodine and Cesium are being produced, fission is occurring. Period. Absolute fact, undisputable.
Report Comment
Yesterday on the Physics Forum…
About the geology of the Fukushima area, I was able to consult a Japanese specialist, a professor of geology at a leading Japanese university, who provided lengthy and detailed explanations. I asked him specifically about the solidity of the rock on which Fukushima Daiichi sits, and about the groundwater system in the area and implications for the spread of contamination by that route. His replies…
“As for Fukushima`s geology, *yes, it has been long known that around the Fukushima Daiichi Plant is sedimentary rock Taga Group; around the plant this rock is called the Tomioka Formation, whch is made of coarse sandstone (or Grit) and tuffaceous siltstone. It`s pity that*no*geologists*(as*far as I know)*have warned the vulnebility of the Fukushima Daiichi Plant in terms of geology.
As for the groundwater-flow information, I don`t know. I checked several website, but I could not find one, including the one in Japanese. As the bedrock of the area is made of coarse sandstone, the rock is highly permeable and has plenty of waters flowing in the underground of the plain (but in a very very*slow speed) around the*nuke plant. The source (catchment of rain) is the nearby Abukuma mountains, and the groundwater of this nature will spend hundred or more years to flow from the mountains to the coastline. But I do not have data to prove this – I am just stating a general rule.”
http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3356008&postcount=9753
Report Comment
Groundwater often feeds into surface water such as seeps and wetlands.
See pollution of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater
Report Comment
Observing the [...] explosion like a “gigantic atomic bomb… [...] of the article, with reference to water contacting “lava”, consider. Water has not done such previously. What changed?
Any idea’s?
Report Comment
[...] explosion [...] implies
“boom!”
Report Comment
Good work !
On all the details.
-.-.-.-.-.-
Groundwater
I brought up on the boards weeks in about the groundwater becoming contaminated and flowing into other parts of Japan, the underground radiation threat vis water, non-potable/non-drinkable !
Report Comment
Point being.
If water (cooling) has contacted molten “lava” via pumps, helicopters etc.
Why is it now a “bomb” because it contacts “ground” water?
Looking into the logic.
And the BS.
Report Comment
From what I understood is they said they were afraid it would contaminate the Waters when it reached the water table and had to stop that if possible !
Report Comment
Within the article’s use of the word “explosion,” comes a question.
Why is it blowing up because of water? Water has been dumped here for months.
Why is “water,” now, the cause of a new KABOOM?
Report Comment
I think it is the quantity of water (refer to below links). Corium – similar to volcanic lava and ground water Fukushima similar with seawater. Please refer to below links – explosions happen when lava meets seawater:
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/hazards/oceanentry/deltaexplosions/
http://www.vulkaner.no/v/vulkinfo/tomhaz/hawaiix4.html
Report Comment
Some info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_of_nuclear_fuel_during_a_reactor_accident#Contact_of_molten_fuel_with_water_and_concrete
Contact of molten fuel with water and concrete
Water
Extensive work was done from 1970 to 1990 on the possibility of a steam explosion or FCI when molten ‘corium’ contacted water. Many experiments suggested quite low conversion of thermal to mechanical energy, whereas the theoretical models available appeared to suggest that much higher efficiencies were possible.
A NEA/OECD report was written on the subject in 2000 which states that a steam explosion caused by contact of corium with water has four stages.[29]
Premixing
As the jet of corium enters the water, it breaks up into droplets. During this stage the thermal contact between the corium and the water is not good because a vapor film surrounds the droplets of corium and this insulates the two from each other. It is possible for this meta-stable state to quench without an explosion or it can trigger in the next step
Triggering
A externally or internally generated trigger (such as a pressure wave) causes a collapse of the vapor film between the corium and the water.
Propagation
The local increase in pressure due to the increased heating of the water can generate enhanced heat transfer (usually due to rapid fragmentation of the hot fluid within the colder more volatile one) and a greater pressure wave, this process can be self-sustained. (The mechanics of this stage would then be similar to those in a classical ZND detonation wave).
Expansion
This process leads to the whole of the water being suddenly heated to boiling. This causes an increase in pressure which can result in damage to the plant.
Report Comment
This snip form your Physics Forum post:
“the bed rock of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuke Power Plant is soft sedimentary rock. They do not know why government (both national and local/prefectural) approved for the construction of the plant on such a bad spot”
Inland from the plant is a north south range of mountains of hard material. Between this and the coast is a shelf of later sedimentaries, softer material. Thick sandstone would be quite resistent to seismic stress. Clays, and mixed bands of clays and sands, would be less resistant. Maps can tell you so much, but a detailed survey or local knowledge can tell you exactly what you need to know.
In my earlier analysis I concentrated on the reclaimed land issue. I still believe that this is important. There would be an additional contribution to instability if the underlying material is clays or mixed sedimentary bands. I believe that your informant has brought this issue out into the open, well done.
Movement along existing faults and opening up of joints, veins, etc in hard rock territory creates new opportunities for groundwater flow. My view is still that the proximity of the sea takes the majority of the flow in that direction.
Thanks for digging this up. I feel a bit stupid for not getting there first. My feeling at the time was that a rapid search of accessible material would provide material to help focus our anxieties about what groundwater can actually do in the area. The discovery of the unstable ground was a bonus if we could put it like that.
Report Comment
st. louis, missouri
terra mks05 (.05-3.0MeV gamma – did not take beta readings)
grass .11 microsieverts per hour
park bench .09
granite steps .16
pm1208 (.05-1.5MeV gamma)
ambient .07-.09 microsieverts per hour
potrblog youtube shows startling videos claiming >50X background with inspector geiger (sensitivity down to .16MeV for gamma and beta).
personally, not concerned at this point. numbers should increase with accumulation of long lived isotopes. if this happens, …. pray this does not happen.
Report Comment
correction: inspector geiger down to .016MeV gamma, not sure about beta but it is very sensitive.
Report Comment
@xdrfox & Prof. Neutron
Here is another link to Chernobyl with pictures. The elephant foot measured 12,000 REM/hour or 120 Sieverts/hour.
http://www.jonmwang.com/blog/2011/04/13/the-battle-of-chernobyl-documentary/
http://www.jonmwang.com/blog/2011/04/13/the-battle-of-chernobyl-documentary/chernobyl-elephants-foot/
Report Comment
I was in my late 30′s when Chernobyl happened and news was sketchy at best then being the Soviet Union and the fall not being a cold war but still not lots of friendly family talk between the two nation U.S. and them !
Many stories came out, many of what may be because many did not have all the details or something lost in translation of, or a thought to do something was and always was a thought and not a fact of reality !
Seems many stories are being told years down the road, say of the death toll of workers, liquidators that have died and keep on the Quite List as well as the numbers of civilian deaths and disfigured children and still Born’s babies !
Such a horrid mess still truths coming to bear in reality and people still dieing from the aftermath of last and future destruction of lives !
Report Comment
Did you read what this ones says…
“The worst part is having people and media claiming that the Fukushima nuclear accident is somehow worse than the Chernobyl accident.”
And other statents..
“or leaked into the water table affecting Eastern Europe and areas around the Black Sea.”
Like The whole Pacific is not a bigger problem ???
Report Comment
As far as a nuclear explosion that would have wiped out cities 300Km away, I have not read anything that would support that conclusion of a nuclear/steam (water table contact) explosion. I’m not sure if this is an intentional disinformation/distraction piece meant to discredit people using this site. I know, or believe, that the military/covert orgs are definitely trying to seed this site with information or comments that would undermine our value to some readers. Please be aware that this sort of “seeding” of disinformation is a perpetual (most of you are aware of this) threat. I haven’t read the above comments, but I’m sure there has been some picking this vid post apart, which would be appropriate. Gathering information these days is increasingly a struggle, not lessened, but worsened by technology, as long as the main definers and disseminators of most information continue to be corporativist interests and increasingly fascist governments (e.g., U.S., Israel, E.U. States, China, Japan, etc.)
Report Comment
300Km away
Some times a hypothesis is only what may happen/happened. We will have to wait and see if this three or the next one/ones give us a look at the possibilities !
Report Comment
xdrfox,
I agree with all your comments. The former Soviet Union was huge and had a lot of intelligent scientists and all resources were used when it came to Cernobyl. I am not Russian origin, however I trust that, if they said there was a high risk of huge explosion when corium hit the ground water (and extent of contamination), there was indeed a high risk of explosion. And this is applicable also to the corium blobs at Fukushima. If anything from the documentary it is clear the russian scientists have underestimated the effects and dangers of radiation, not overestimated them.
Report Comment
This is an official Russian documentary of what happened at Cernobyl. History. A former president, decorated generals, miners, soldiers, doctors and other people who were actually involved in the cleanup are interviewed. Your comments above are odd.
Report Comment
Are you agreeing with the article (http://www.jonmwang.com/blog/2011/04/13/the-battle-of-chernobyl-documentary/)
that Russia’s Chernobyl was worse then what we have today in Japan ??
Report Comment
The article is someone’s personal opinion. In my opinion, Fukushima is and will be much worse.
There is so little accurate information re. Fukushima – the author of the article may be located in Europe (less effect over there)and he may not have wanted to speculate re. Fukushima future. The historic Cernobyl documentary stands on its own – Cernobyl was very dangerous also – the difference is that the Russians prevented worse things from happening.
Also he said “They are different in the magnitude and response. It is like comparing the difference between having your hand cut off and having both arms cut off, both are terrible to ever have happen but one is much worse. The difference being that Fukushima is ongoing and happening now…”
I think Fukushima is “Both your arms cut off – example”.
Report Comment
Much Worse indeed !
: (
Report Comment
that article is from april…
only a nuclear killer stooge would say chernobyl was more serious now.
i have been asking for months now where is that darn japanese plutonium.
scientists,soldiers, generals miners all worked together in the ukraine in the dead zones.
a sacrifice for the greater good.
what we have in japan is a photoshop iaea site fake site tour and some low level pointing at holes or spraying gloopy green childrens slime.
tepco are doing what we do looking on monitors.
they are taking readings knocking 60% off the numbers and releasing them as daily figure.
i blame gameboy and sony playstation,the meltdown is on a screen so it is not reality.
look at these dazed and confused clowns..
http://www.sntonline.com/image/61201__Fukushima+Daini+Nuclear+Power+Station
Report Comment
cle is from april
In april there still were three in melt down not one as Chernobyl and the mass tonage of spent rods in pools and MOX fuel blown all over the Prefecture !
Report Comment
I have discovered, from deep background data leaks, that a carbon tax proposal,
may be amended, to include a small radiation tax.
Stay tuned for details.
Report Comment
I’d keep your eye on the tepco live cam, I say two employees, take surveying pics, then leave, in a haste, followed by a very quick puff of radiation… I believe from reactor 3…
It was only one quick light puff, So I am wondering if it will lead to more… Odd thing was It looked like it came from the doorway and not the roof… SO thats all I got for now…
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/f1-np/camera/index-e.html
Report Comment
Its now appearing to puff off a building to the right of R4… Keep your eye on the building farthest to the right off the live feed
There also appeared to be a puff coming from reactor 2… You can watch it move on the far side towards the far side of r1.
Report Comment
brought in a crane, on the far right of the feed, two workers working ahead on the hill (very distant),
Report Comment
You stated that
[...] So I am wondering if it will lead to more… [...]
Have you any reason that it will not?
Report Comment
The comments from Pripyat reminded me so much of what evacuees from Fukushima were saying: “it’s such a nice place, we’re going to come back someday, etc., etc.”
Report Comment
What ever building is to the right of R4. On the top left corner… It seems to be venting steam… you have to play and rewind the live feed, its very very faint… But you will see what I am talking about:http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/f1-np/camera/index-e.html
Report Comment
Just saw a worker up close evacuating?/ He walked away…
Report Comment
two workers now in front of cam
Report Comment
Ive now seen three employees, evacuate left, and two employees evacuate to the right (on the far off road).
Not to say evacuate entirely, but leave the vicinity of the cam / plant…
Report Comment
more smoke / steam coming off the roof of the farthest building to the right… five employees at the top of the stairs
Report Comment
Let us know when there is a quick bright FLASH and the Cam goes out instantaneously !
Report Comment
What will be the result of that?
Report Comment
Japam will be no more !
Report Comment
Theres still large puffs coming off the roof of the building farthest to the right on the tepco live feed
Report Comment
Wish they could spend another 50 USD to get a better camera so we can see the end in full HD !! Maybe I can get my 3-D movie glasses as well..
I do see the color shifts over R4 but hard for me to confirm. Also see a pixel of white every now and then. Could be background or effect on camera??
Report Comment
Too funny – good point!
Report Comment
MAP OF FUKUSHIMA COMPOUND
http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/fukushima_daiichi_map_plan.jpg
Map showing camera angle under TEPCO live cam
http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html
Comparing maps, it is the Centralized Radiation Waste Treatment Facility.
Report Comment
Two main buildings down that way, one is common spent fuel storage, other is centralised waste treatment facility. I’d suggest the latter, judging from camera angle.
Report Comment
Somehow I don’t trust the tepco cameras. The plants still look green as ever. The trees near the chernobyl accident was red within weeks.
Report Comment
It’s on air now !
http://www.renseradio.com/listenlive.htm
Report Comment
Bloomberg
Japan’s Ad-Hoc Radiation Tests Raise Concerns
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-15/japan-s-piecemeal-radiation-testing-heightens-concerns-over-safety-of-food.html
Report Comment
Has anyone else checked the Pachube radiation map lately? I just looked and radiation everywhere but FK has happily disappeared. And the FK area is reading a mere ~.08 of whatever their calibration unit is (that had been reading over 200 yesterday).
Report Comment
Fukushima’s Apocalyptic Threat
Report Comment
~12:49 JLT.
Looks like camera is shaking… now stoped
Report Comment
LATEST EARTHQUAKES – JAPAN
5.2 2011/06/14 14:56:00 39.462 142.359 19.1 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
5.8 2011/06/14 13:06:55 37.731 143.486 32.7 OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
5.2 2011/06/14 12:48:55 43.253 145.301 73.8 HOKKAIDO, JAPAN REGION
Report Comment
~13:05 JLT.
Little white people moving at far end. Could be checking site after shaking??
Report Comment
Got a bad feeling about this ! Any thoughts ?
Report Comment
I try not to think anymore.. only bad thoughts now..
Report Comment
At least 4 to 5 workers at remote end by R4 looking for long time at something. Man, if I were there I would want to get away (RUN) from all the contamination rather than stand out there!!!
Report Comment
Very interesting discussion, one of the better threads here, IMHO.
As for some of the confusion about moderators, from wiki: “a neutron moderator is a medium that reduces the speed of fast neutrons, thereby turning them into thermal neutrons capable of sustaining a nuclear chain reaction”
The idea that both water and a precise geometry are necessary for a self-sustaining reaction is something I have heard from three different scientists I know personally and trust. Judging by the debate on many forums– mostly The Oil Drum a month or so ago and Physics Forum– my conclusion is that there is NO consensus about what will happen when corium hits the water table, or if that will happen. How much the corium has cooled, what its physical shape is, whether it hits water all at once or slowly– all this is unknown.
Well, that’s not quite accurate. We know it’s going to suck when that happens. We just don’t know how bad.
Alexa, it is true that the dangers of radiation have consistently been underestimated, I think. However, it does not follow that therefore we can be sure that the Russians were underestimating the consequences of corium hitting the water table. Possible, maybe even likely, but not certain. A lot of smart people with no industry connections keep telling me the same thing: the heat will decay, the corium won’t get that far. I do not think they knew anything more in Chernobyl than we know now– it’s a totally uncontrolled experiment– but they definitely acted with more of a sense of caution and responsibility.
Report Comment
Did you hear Gunderson’s take on reactor #3? He believes enough fuel is left contained in #3′s pressure vessel to cause another hydrogen explosion.
He feels that the first explosion at #3 was in the fuel pool, rather than in the reactor.
Still, as I understand it, the real concern is the spent fuel pools, particularly #4 since that building is in shambles. They can produce more radioactive contamination than the fuel in the reactors if they burn.
Everyone should watch the video up at enews on the collapse of the bird population in California’s central coast after rain washed out Chernobyl radiation. The video is amazing and very objective.
Based on that video, the concern for Japan and the rest of the world is the ongoing, seemingly ceaseless contamination of the environment with ionizing radiation.
We’ve had 3 months of it already. What are the consequences going to be on human and animal health? Scary…
Report Comment
The good thing about Chernobyl.
Bring back the good old days there couldn’t be anything worse. But Chernobyl was a carbon reactor. Those can work with low enriched fuel, even no enrichment. Chernobyl was only 2.0 percent making it very unlikley that it would go off in water. Even so, no one knew for sure. The light-water reactors in Fukushima of course have to have higher enriched fuel to make them able to go critical in plain water. The MOX fuel will be higher yet.
Report Comment
Heat anomalies days before, MIT, NASA, HAARP, Fukushima
http://2012patriot.wordpress.com/2011/06/10/haarp-caused-fukushima/
Report Comment
Workers sprinting back and forth near the no 4 reactor above the bushes. A black crane is in the background as well.
Report Comment
Lots of commotion, in the distance on the hill, by R4…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE-ZDpMo8qc&feature=player_embedded
Report Comment
At second glance, I can confirm reactor 4 is steaming away…
Report Comment
I am no expert but it does look very hot vapor or steam…
So hard to tell with the pixel deformation in the low quality camera damit!!
Report Comment
The link I gave allows you to rewind a half a minute and fast forward during real time. So I can easily go back and forth while im watching… Like a second ago I could tell when the five employees just left, if you rewind it and fast forward it enough, I could tell one was running… I don’t know what that means, but They all left…
Report Comment
It means he is the smart one !! I would run and keep running!!
I keep trying to convince myself that it is not steam/heat but every time I look it just confirms what you are seeing as well..
Report Comment
If you think about it, that plume is about 10 – 20 feet…
Its probably been constantly critical all month, smoking away… This thing surpassed chernobyl in the first week. Its unprecedented. No disaster in time compares to it…
Report Comment
When I said plume, i meant steam release”
The steam release is a visable estimation of 10-20feet. Its there almost everyday… thats Just the hot vapors too… SO the particles probably get carried straight into the jetstream… I think the whole us / canadian coast are taking a beating… this is not cool…
Not cool at all…
Now the central usa plant is screwed…
Thats some good doom…
Report Comment
They need to spray some kind of smoke so we can see when hot gases are rising… This is just a smokescreen hack job to appease the public…
I keep wondering if the explosions we heard, when the oiltanks, caught fire were reactors 5, or 6.
We should get more camera views than this stupid angle… I wonder what the leak next to that pipe that was steaming away in reactor 1 looks like now?
Report Comment
the video at your link has been replaced with something else–at least, that happened 2 when i pasted it in…
Report Comment
This link is to a cat video, not Fukushima.
Report Comment
I have seen that crane a few times around R1. I can only guess that it is taking some measurements close to the top. Others might be able to add more but I see it swing something around the top and sides a few days ago.
Lets see if it heads down to R4 or R3…
Report Comment
My friend s wife who is in Tokyo saw on the Japanese local news to alert people not to play in the grass or stay away from Drain pipes, Sewers and manholes.
I am in Tokyo myself and seriously thinking of living !
Crap! Darn ! Sh”t ! Fu’k !!
I am so happy I got my children out of here 3 months ago.
Report Comment
I would say to you leave if you can. If you wait too long EVERYONE will be trying to get out as fast as you.
I hope it is not needed but this has the potential that I would not ignore.
Best wishes to you all over there..
Report Comment
Now if you can Moonkai, leave and join your kids. You can always return to Tokyo when and if things improve. You may not have a second chance to make the right decision on this one.
Report Comment
Arggggh … I forgot to be happy this morning ! … ok ok ok … I am very very very happy! Smiling and dancing the day away !
Report Comment
Japan should instantly legalize Ecstasy pills. This would help keep you happy and hug everyone !!!
This would drive the mad radiation crazy with now one to attack!!
Report Comment
Thank you for the well wishes lowmoral!
I just opened a biz 8 months ago and it was doing great ! Oh well ! Life is more important!
By the way, you might want to change your log in name to “high spirit”. It would protect you better me thinks ! lol
Report Comment
http://doctorapsley.com/RadiationTherapy.aspx
“We are now concerned with the most lethal radioactive particles should they become airborne. Since Reactor Units 1, 2 & 3 all experienced hydrogen explosions prior to March 14, we know that the outer coating to the fuel rods had become overheated.112 The outer coating is composed of Zirconium oxide which when combined to steam is exothermic at all temperatures.(I) At temperatures below 2,000oF, this metal-steam combo releases vast amounts of hydrogen, which caused the initial super-pressure explosions.111 At the same time, this event also released airborne Iodide-131, Cesium-137/134, and Tellurium-132107 likely in sufficient quantities to initiate The Petkau Effect in both animals and humans for thousands of miles downwind once the particles embed into their respective host tissues.
@ normal criticality or normal flux of neutron energy ZrO2 + 2(H2) –> releases vast amounts of hydrogen gas
However, if these fuel rods become exposed to open air because of a coolant leak, high-intensity meltdown of the core initiates. Temperatures would quickly surpass the previous ranges, and could easily set up the big one. For example, if temperatures exceed 1500oC or 2,732oF (which is possible since high-intensity meltdown temperatures – due to low coolants or low water – easily approach 5,000oF), Zircaloy becomes highly ignitable in the presence of super-heated steam and adequate oxygen.(I), 113 So, when water is finally added back into the picture, bingo…
@ prompt criticality or high-flux of neutron energy (“takeoff” threshold) > 1500oC then: 2(H2O) + Zr –> ZrO2 + 2(H2) –> super heated ZrO2 + O2 –> ignition –> explosion –> nanoparticle release of radioactive elements, most alarmingly Plutonium-240/239/238.
This would not be a small explosion like we saw on T.V., this would be much more powerful. Why?
Collectively, these fuel rods contain lots of Zircaloy which could translate into quite an explosion. Most nuclear power plants have between 20 to 25 tons of total Zircaloy on site, but because Fukushima has 6 Reactors, we may be looking at closer to 100 tons of this explosive material now at risk, and about 400 tons of nuclear fuel or more.110, 126 An explosion of such magnitude, especially if it involved Fukushima Reactor Unit 3, would likely cause a global catastrophic event. This is because the fuel rods in Unit 3 are enriched with Plutonium (MOX fuel rods). If that happens, due to the extreme toxic effects from inhaling plutonium (it is perhaps one of the most toxic substances known), cancer death rates would skyrocket across much of the world, despite official propaganda bullet points which try to minimize the concerns.120 And most unfortunately for Japan, an area the size of Pennsylvania outward from Fukushima would likely become uninhabitable for thousands of years.(L)”
Report Comment
Preparing for the Worst
Preparing for the worst, hope for the best. A frequently used adage. I have yet to see preparation for the worst taken to its logical conclusion.
A possible nuclear detonation was predicted if ground water was reached, this would indeed be worst case.
But, more likely, instead of detonation, the worse outcome could be somewhere between where we are now, and the worst case.
I expect an gradual escalation of the same; more and more smoke, steam and gasses and occasional hydrogen explosions over the course of decades. Like an active volcano, where there are periods where only smoke and steam rise and periods of explosive eruptions.
Due to accumulation of cesium and strontium within the soil and plant life, large areas of Japan will have to be evacuated as evidenced by the forced evacuation of Bikini Atoll and areas surrounding Chernobyl.
I believe that radiation will define the century and human life will be governed by the demands of living safely within it.
When I examine the preparatory response that each family must take to make ready for the worst, most are months, even years away from being physically and mentally ready.
Realistically, the truth is, most are hoping for the best, while thinking about the worst. And so it remains to this day.
Report Comment
I wonder how much he got paid to say that…true or not.
Report Comment
These days it seems more the medals, the more payoff one accepted….
the people KNOW
Report Comment
DUGA3 death beam transmitter – fed by 6 nukes. That was the reason for Pripyat’s existence.
Everything else is a big hollywood farse – except the millions (?) dead. These goons even went and gathered thousands young men from the countries they had raped for tens of years: at midnight kgb kicked doors in, and robbed the young men at gunpoint – then first time these boys saw light was at pripyat wheelbarrow handles…
Using the papal K Marx teachings, jsuit-stalins commies killed 60 million of their own people in their deathcamps. Theses folks are now to be believed, as heroes!?
The death machine – reason for Pripyat’s existence, reason why there was to be six nuclear reactors – is to produce even more killing around the globe: D U G A 3 … explained here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqX6bXYnNFA
And oh how the j€§uits arranged for their elite the means to survive this dosage test for the 2011-fucushimas: Zeolite food products, even candy…
See details, repost http://wp.me/pwIAV-19
Oh boy. This was just the nicest pickings what the papal j€§uit clan is cooking using their programmed intellectuals in CFR Biderberg etc groups…
Report Comment
Reactors 5 and 6 are the 8000 lbs gorillas in the room, they can still be offloaded, and we haven’t heard a peep about this…what are they trying to “conserve money” WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Comment
MOX fuel and plutonium, a substance so toxic “that a teaspoon-sized cube of it would suffice to kill 10 million people,”
How many teaspoons are in there???
Report Comment
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/jun/15/tepco-plan-seal-fukushima-reactors-video
How do they plan on fixing the reactors once they trap all the humid radiation in the now dark reactor buildings? Wont it all just accumulate… Then eventually explode? How are they going to continue cooling?. What about containment via cold shutdown???
Report Comment
New Fukushima Video Reveals Radiation
1000 Xs worse than Chernobyl
http://visionsgreen.com/2011/06/new-fukushima-video-reveals-radiation-1000-xs-chernobyl/
Report Comment
Fukushimas Ocean Radiation More Than Original Reports
June 13, 2011No Comments
So, top scientists in the field of Marine Chemistry, have done the testing and research and the result is not good. Fukushima’s poison radiated water spewn into the pacific ocean will cause malformations in ocean life as well as the resulting food chain [ that's us], from platunium, I131 and ZM133 in the ocean. It is very important that you see the ending result of this testing. You and I will be affected by the radiation as well as our farm animals, food supply and air. Yes our air. Where do you think the condensation from the ocean goes? Remember the ol’ saying by Newton.. what goes up, must come down. Not to mention that it is the pacific tropical season and storms will move through and across all of the radiation, pick it up and drop it…. somewhere!
Link for continued article:
http://visionsgreen.com/2011/06/fukushimas-ocean-radiation-more-than-original-reports/
Report Comment
Radiation Levels in Tokyo – MUCH Higher Than TEPCO Reports – June 14, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNFwuovls2Y
Japan Television finally reported hotspots in Tokyo and Chiba last night – go for detailed radiation map of tokyo…
http://safecast.jp/list-of-drives/
Tokyo ups radiation checks to 100 sites
Tokyo ups radiation checks to 100 sites | The Japan Times Online – japantimes.co.jp
Report Comment
I have been trying to tell them for some time now!.
Report Comment
My latest video on Fukushima:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UANLkiqW1SM
Report Comment
I watched the documentary last night… really interesting and sad. Chernobyl was BAD.
I guess the message that struck me after seeing the film and in the wake of everything Fukushima is simply: You can’t trust ANYTHING “official” after a nuke accident, ever.
I remember when Chernobyl happened… keeping secrets, covering up, and letting people suffer blindly seemed like a very typical cold-war commie thing to do.
After the lessons of Fukushima, and what we know about other accidents, I think we can all safely assume that the one thing we can all count on after a nuke emergency is that everyone will be lied to and deceived.
The other thing that hit hard after the film was the heroism of all the workers. Sending in a couple hundred thousand workers to manually clean up that mess was a terrible thing, but their sacrifice may have saved us all.
Maybe Fukushima is different, but I cant help but wonder if sending in 100,000 people to manually get Fukushima somewhat “under control” isn’t the only real option. Little robots are not gonna fix anything, much less get that mess cleaned up… as of right now, the situation is still very unstable.
Maybe Its time for some real action in Fukushima. Send in the troops and cover those reactors! It sucks, but its also a RESPONSIBILITY to the rest of the world – and maybe the best way for Japan to “save face”.
Report Comment
There is a proposition for debate that “Japan does not care about the rest of the World”.
Report Comment