Report: ‘Empty’ Reactor No. 4 was actually filled with nuclear fuel

Published: January 31st, 2012 at 10:40 pm ET
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Title: 迷いましたが、記事を再度 上げます。 「 【 原発 】 の 作業員 さん 」 の お話です。 – ぬまゆのブログ – Yahoo!ブログ
Source: Numayu
Date: Jan 31, 2012

Translated by Fukushima Diary:

[...] The nuclear worker is trustworthy. [...] Please read the post below as a story I heard from a Fukushima worker. [...] 

Tepco was planning to start reactor 4 in the AM of 311.

(The nuclear fuel was in reactor.) [...]

Soon after the earthquake hit it, meltdown started.

Because reactor 4 was stand-by, cooling system could not be started either. [...]

The damage of reactor 4 is serious. [...]

In the container vessel of reactor4, melted fuel is stocked, but there is no technology developed to pick it up, it’s only the matter of time for it to have melt-out. The longest time would be one year.

If another earthquake hits it, it’s over.

Technically speaking, if it goes melt-out, it would flow to the sea.

Pacific ocean side of Japan and west side of America won’t be inhabitable anymore.

Read the full translation here

Published: January 31st, 2012 at 10:40 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
136 comments

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  1. Interview: Fukushima Reactor No. 4′s problem is not only its nuclear fuel pool! — Pit filled with highly radioactive materials July 3, 2013
  2. Tepco sends emergency email to journalists: Leakage at Reactor No. 4 — “They assume the water is from the well of the reactor” February 1, 2012
  3. WSJ: Tepco needs to find ways to prevent new nuclear reactions — May happen if fuel not adequately cooled — “Containment vessels are largely empty of water” after leakage September 14, 2011
  4. Report: “Evidence Of Fukushima Daiichi Reactor Fire” (PHOTOS & VIDEO) May 8, 2011
  5. Japan Gov’t Papers After 3/11: Spent Fuel Pool No. 4 at boiling point — It is empty — Heat caused fire May 16, 2012

136 comments to Report: ‘Empty’ Reactor No. 4 was actually filled with nuclear fuel

  • maaa

    “Pacific ocean side of Japan and west side of America won’t be inhabitable anymore”


    Report comment

    • pacific

      Wtf? Why would meltout of this reactor ruin the US west coast, but the other reactors haven’t/won’t?


      Report comment

    • ion jean ion jean

      Is it the fresh fuel rods that contain much more enriched uranium than the running rods in the other reactors?

      They put the rods in BEFORE the cooling system is functional? Are they serious???

      Did they load up MOX fuel in 4 and not tell anyone??

      They did, they did wabbit!


      Report comment

    • fellfromthesun

      According to an anonymous source with no evidence provided by Mochizuki, who seems to think he can post anything whatsoever and call it “true” with no proof needed. More likely he must post at least one over-the-top claim every day to keep the traffic and donations flowing to his blog.


      Report comment

      • fellfromthesun

        Though if another big earthquake hits Daiichi, it’s over for any number of reasons… but recent seismic activity seems to indicate a Tokyo/Kanto quake in the works.


        Report comment

    • I think I’ll put that in bold:

      Pacific ocean side of Japan and west side of America won’t be inhabitable anymore.


      Report comment

    • Why would it not do as the other and just melt through to the earth, has it got a special agenda to go swimming and swimming trucks on !

      I think his source is “Happy” and he has been right about happenings at the plant many times but I still see nothing different then others, will either blow or China Syndrome !

      But that is still slow More KILL !


      Report comment

      • In the beginning they had release information that they were refuel #4, when refueling one third of the fuel would be removed and replaced at a time, so we knew there was a 2/3rds load in that reactor, either no new fuel 1/3rd or 2/3rds old fuel or 1/3 new fuel or 2/3rds new fuel !

        They were not truthful and it’s full of new fuel and may melt !

        And the spent fuel pool above it ? Has it been emptied yet !


        Report comment

  • kintaman kintaman

    If what is being said is true does ANYTHING else in the world really matter now? Isn’t what is happening in Fukushima now, for the last 10 months, not the most important thing in the world and will have the greatest impact on our species and environment thousands and thousands of years?

    I find it interesting that I do not see many of the famed ecologists and green folks talking very loudly about this. This should be #1 news every day everywhere. Boggles the mind. Many people I speak do not even know about Fukushima.


    Report comment

    • Anthony Anthony

      I chatted with a smart guy today and mentioned the wispy black grey cirrus clouds whipping by under all the other clouds as being from Fukushima. He looked at me and smiled that it couldn’t possibly come from so far away. I countered with it could, it did and it is – I pointed to the clouds and asked him When had he ever seen clouds like those above us and when has he seen clouds moving like that. He looked at me and said “I knew that shit would get over here“.

      He is right.

      And so are we.


      Report comment

      • bfly

        I witnessed those exact clouds you speak of. I also wondered about if it could be possibly be from over seas.I wish I had taken a photo.


        Report comment

      • Anthony, I also have been seeing them, multi types an colors are odd, I didn’t have my video with me at the beach side last week but it was Erie, I did stop several times to observe, later when I got home I did some vid’s on another batch coming through ! Not as strange as the others !

        They do not BEHAVE as clouds around them ! ???

        We have never been here before !


        Report comment

    • Ah hem…. As a passionate GREEEEEENNNNN, I am involved in this every minute of every day, spending as much time as I can on this. This stuff is going out in a green blog, green groups I host and tweets, as well as emails and communications with friends.

      Please do not judge the green community. It is a VERY SMALL community. Have you seen what Greenpeace has done in Japan, by the way?

      Greens have very little impact on the wider world or even local politics. In my county, there are only 40 registered Green party members, while the dualopoly has about 30,0000 registered party members. The dualopoly plus the corporate monopolies that are in control of just about everything, have made sure that Greens are kept small and without power, by locking out all Third Parties, so they will have zero effect on what they want to do, like building more nuclear power plants.

      Many Greens are just like ordinary folks that are way too busy and way too stressed to spend time on anything other than family, work and all of the dramas in their lives. Because their suggestions and proposals are shot down and go nowhere, many of them have given up even trying.

      It is like the Matrix.. who has the fortitude to keep the faith and keep fighting with the sword of truth, no matter what the odds, even when the machine controls everything and everyone?

      Who has the courage to stand up to Goliath, with all his power, all his weapons and his whole army standing behind him?

      Please do not blame the boy tending the sheep on the Green mountain. He is doing the best he can, while Goliath is roaming the valley, slaying people at will.


      Report comment

    • many moons

      Yes where are our LEADERS? What about our candidates for president? Or our president for that matter? How bout the Dali Lama…oh he has commented…thinks nukes should move forward….pope hasn’t uttered a word ( too busy with those homosexual marriages to be concerned with toxic pollution) Yes it’s like the song says…”they caught the last train for the…southern hemisfere….the day the….planet died…”


      Report comment

      • Bones Bones

        It is surprising to me how completely our leaders support nuclear. Nearly none against. I found a video interview with Ron Paul where he voiced his approval of nuclear energy. Very strange move for a libertarian capitalist. He, of all politicians, should understand it is not economically viable without subsidizing using the public’s money. Kind of like energy production in the Soviet Union, only our government has a much better PR guy.


        Report comment

      • Elections are a joke, stooges are placed before us, and we are allowed to think we have a vote that matters. Seriously, if you believe this, you need to rethink.


        Report comment

    • lam335 lam335

      “Isn’t what is happening in Fukushima now, for the last 10 months, not the most important thing in the world and will have the greatest impact on our species and environment thousands and thousands of years?”

      I believe this too. Yet when I express this judgment to people, it is inevitably followed by a skeptical look or simply an awkward silence.

      Why can’t/won’t people open their eyes and pay attention to this?


      Report comment

      • Fuku itself may not be the turning point, but it is a bellweather. 3 more and the earth is toast. WE are toast, or worse.


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        The media will not touch this subject as nothing can be done and it would only cause mass panic, riots, etc which would accomplish nothing as nothing can be done. This is the icing on the MOX cake. Ahhh, I hope this info is wrong, oh please let if be wrong and please let me be overreacting.


        Report comment

    • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

      Kintaman:
      Most of us who have been ranting against nuclear for decades are now stuck in one huge “I told you so” loop.
      At least mentally and socially and intellectually.

      Look at what happened to Anna Mae Aquash.
      Or Karen Silkwood at Kerr McGee
      The list of anti-nuclear martyrs is a long one.

      Another issue in this is that even if high profile “greenies” decided to explain the significance of Fuku (or nuclear in general, for that matter) what main stream media outlet would have them on?
      ZERO
      And who/where is the audience??
      Also a big ZERO.
      Joe Six Pack is not the least bit interested.
      The game score is far more important.
      “Besides dude, it’s in Japan. No way it could get here.
      What are yah…ignerent!!??”

      Even NPR/CPB would white wash it. (Note their advertisers!)
      The nuclear industry (war included) has turned it in to a fundamentalist religion.
      And they will stop at nothing to try to keep it going.

      My point is that the incestual relationship between the nuclear industry and MSM runs so deep that this story has no hope of getting any serious or realistic air time.
      Until it is way too late to do anything about it.
      We have likely cross that event horizon already.

      Your question is a relevant one.
      Yet the answer is an obvious one to the “leaders” you reference.
      They led and almost no one followed.

      “Nuclear power is one hell of a way to boil water.”… Einstein

      As for reading material to better understand the MSM role in this mess, I can not recommend enough

      In The Absence Of The Sacred by Jerry Mander

      The entire book was very hard to put down and is best summed up as one long Santa Claus moment.


      Report comment

      • Damn, I thought that was my quote….”one hell of a way to boil water”


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      • James2

        For those who have been ranting for decades, congratulations that you were right – but no one listened then either.

        Something has changed with this event at Fukushima. It has proven several things that were merely speculated before:

        1. That “non communist” nuke plants weren’t any more safe than Chernobyl.
        2. That the vaunted containment can’t contain anything.
        3. That the spent fuel being on-site is a very bad idea.
        4. That earthquakes are a very big issue – and when a bad one occurs, it knocks out everything needed to keep the plant cool
        5. That open criticalities can and will occur
        6. That China syndrome is not just a movie
        7. That the cost of a nuclear meltdown can devastate even one of the largest and strongest economies in the world – overnight – everyone’s wealth, health and welfare is at risk all the time from nuke meltdown
        8. That fallout from a meltdown can be seen and felt halfway around the world almost immediately – deaths start happening immediately.
        9. That the governments and the regulatory agencies are in bed with nuclear.
        10- most importantly – that in the face of the worst disaster possible – you cannot trust government, regulators or even the measurements systems to warn you – you are on your own.
        5.


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      • selfsovereign

        Hello fireguyjeff -
        Sure seems like all those who try to protect the innocent life on this planet get thrown under the nuclear bus.
        I’m so weary of all these worthy heros that become nothing more than speedbumps onlong the path of this one-way, dead-end road to nuclear annihilation.

        Thanks for the book reference, my library even has this one.

        peace


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Dear Kinta: I also find it odd that the world’s greens aren’t raising more hell over this cataclysm. It is far and away the very most important single thing in the present. What matters most and is more useful to bring about universal changes in human species behavior than the current events that will end all life above perhaps some insects, tardigrades-microfauna that is genetically less sensitive than to bizarrely high background levels of ionizing radiation? This is the worst consequence of humans not living HUMBLY and, yes folks, at a subsistence level (requires cooperation and full suppression of greed), within our ecological role as delicate, tropical gatherer (most sustainable) and prey species and is the most important historic event for humans since at least 75,000 years ago when humans and others in the genus experienced a genetic narrowing due to events partly associated with the eruption of a northern Sumatran mega volcano at that time. The entire Homo sapiens population was shrunk to about 6000 individuals to whom all currently living humans are related, no matter what appearance of race (there is only one genetic race of Homo sapiens sapiens–most modern humans–therefore, no “races” in reality). Every surviving modern human is actually equatorial desert (Kenya, Tanzania) African and immigrant from Africa. None (Homo sapiens, not sure about other “Homo” genus members) outside of the Rift Valley region survived the mega volcano (Tambora? if I recall) cataclysm of that time. Part of this is the fact that foundational philosophy of the Green movement is, as is common in any bourgie associated group, pathology of pacifism–not always–with a lack of strategy especially about how to deal with the world’s most psychopathic, or “good” billionaires. Also, most party Greens believe in working within an illegitimate system based fundamentally in exploiting other humans.


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      • Kevin Kevin

        Todays environmental movement is largely a captured affair, void of genuine purpose and its cause twisted to support sustainabalism of a largely unsustainable situation.

        Genuine articles in the movement are far and few between, under resourced and marginailized. Too bad really, becuase as you point out, we could really use them right now.


        Report comment

      • Bobby1

        “Also, most party Greens believe in working within an illegitimate system based fundamentally in exploiting other humans.”

        That is the fundamental problem. They are committed to improving a system that cannot be improved. This approach is doomed to fail.


        Report comment

      • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

        The Green Party does not believe in taking donations from any corporations, PERIOD.

        The Democrats and Republicans are swimming in money from corporations.

        Corporations run the elections, lobby Congress with an army of 5,000 lobbyists and write laws that their minions pass via ALEC.

        The only way to not waste your vote is to vote Green Party..

        All other votes are wasted votes, that support what corporations are doing via the dualopoly.


        Report comment

    • I spoke with two twenty-something guys from British Columbia yesterday. They are traveling around Latin America and had an interest in sustainable business/living. We were talking about organic farming and nutrition and I mentioned that I was working on detox smoothies and a detox lunch plate to offer at my cafe to help people build up their immune systems while attempting to combat radiation damage from Fukushima. “What is Fukushima?” asked one guy.

      I mentioned the there meltdowns, with fourth probably in meltdown or something just as toxic, and the constant stream of radiation. I told him that the Canadian government has refused to test because they don’t want to know the truth. Seriously, this sweet, intelligent man didn’t know about Fukushima. He knew nothing about it! He was learning about this from me, and I live in Nicaragua.

      I saw a copy of USA Today yesterday. I opened it up looking for information about Fukushima and Japan. Nothing – not one mention of this ELE in the news. The media pretends Fukushima doesn’t exist. It reminds me of the GOM, but this is so much worse.


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    • Fall out man!

      Having learned something about nuclear power and the effects of fallout over these months since Fukushima blew up, I can say the johnstonarchive link is outrageously positive.


      Report comment

  • TheWorldIsBlind

    4.8 at fuku today


    Report comment

  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    It is like we are all liquidators now.

    Chernobyl The Lost Film

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkjAAzkrXSA


    Report comment

  • Sickputer

    A rumor…but how many times have we seen rumors proven true? If this is true it is bad news indeed. I hope it is false, but the nuclear mafia never inspires any confidence.


    Report comment

  • ruth

    More likely true than not coming from a worker who is scared to death. I live in CA so maybe time to start looking at options but I don’t see anywhere on the face of the earth where this radiation will not effect life. If it kills the Pacific, it will eventually impact the Atlantic. If it hits the West Coast hard, it will hit the Midwest hard as we have seen from what has come over so far. The East Coast is wall to wall with nuclear reactors. There is no where to hide from this. All we can do is keep our bodies as clean as possible for as long as possible.


    Report comment

    • many moons

      I think Paraguay is a good choice…no ocean, plenty of fresh water…


      Report comment

    • I am leaving the Pacific (peaceful ocean) far from Fukushima (Island of Dreams)


      Report comment

    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Dear Ruth: It is time to at least plan A, B, C, D, E, etc. Update your passport immediately. Try to figure out somewhere to go. Plan escape routes in case martial law descends (TSA at our airports and now pulling over truckers on U.S. highways in the U.S. S.E.) Crash course yourself on one or more foreign languages. If people here in the U.S. do soon revolt against the billionaire hegemony based in greed and citizen cowardliness when it comes to controlling the greedy, then maybe it’s worth staying. As part of your planning learn how to think about revolution because there is zero escape from the radiation and there will not be any way to deal with this situation without creating equality and making the greediest equal with the rest of us. However, it might be a good idea to locate oneself, to survive longer, in locations that have more politically awake citizens. The U.S. overall is save for maybe less than 1% of the population–yes could be higher–absolutely without critical thinking skills and politically indolent, for which there aren’t excuses when the U.S. is as fascist and toxic as it is with 104 nuclear reactors! You want to be around others that are more likely to cooperatively and intelligently respond (which is not passive at all!) to this crisis.


      Report comment

    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Dear Ruth: Also, if you can locate yourself where there is plentiful non-surface recharged fossil water, that will also be beneficial for longevity. It’s what the billionaires are most likely planning, since obviously there is zero appropriate response to the failings at Fukushima, or any of the other nuclear accident sites on the planet, which will surely grow in number and severity. I hate to say it; but we may one day, if still alive, look at Fukushima as a smaller event, rather than the largest cataclysm of what’s coming if we don’t overthrow those in charge quickly in favor of fully transparent citizen oversight of all things nuclear, where we fully remove the iron veil of lies our governments would have us believe.


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  • ruth

    I think there are a lot of people who know Fukushima is a catastrophe BUT most people cannot and will not confront the devil. They simply cannot name it for what it is. It is almost beyond words to describe and this kind of terror must be kept at bay. We look at it every day here at Enews and it is scarier to watch and speculate than Hell.

    The government has no solutions so they do nothing to help the people and it seems may even be implicated in the severity of these meltdowns either through stupidity, greed or malice of forethought.


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  • ruth

    I think a mass extinction is ahead of us somewhere down the road. All we can do is care for ourselves and those we love and keep an accurate record of what is happening, and keep sounding the alarm. Enews is reaching people world wide.

    Without the ancient writings that survived thousands of years we would know little of humanity’s beginnings. The more things change the more they stay the same with humans. Our vices ultimately destroy us.


    Report comment

    • Bones Bones

      There is most definitely a nuclear genocide. Take the amount of people who have died due to nuclear energy and you will find that millions have died and will continue to die. Include Fallujah, Fukushima, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, TMI, the reactor in CA that melted down, all the bombs exploded, people poisoned with plutonium on purpose by loving doctors and gov’t, all the children with cancer, children who were stillborn or deformed, genetic damage, heart attacks, soldiers sick and dying, and so on. That is a lot of people who have had their lives either taken or destroyed by an industry.


      Report comment

      • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

        @Bones

        Thank you for a succinct summary of the truth. One wonders why people did not grasp the totality of all these elements sooner.

        The answer: I watched a clip on the news a few days ago about students in Chicago learning to become machinists (hourly salary of $35, lots of jobs). The problem teaching them was that most could not read above the third or fourth grade level! How could they have reached high school without a good foundation in reading? Our society watches videos and, for the most part, do not read.

        People who can’t (or don’t) read can never divine the truth for themselves. I sometimes think that the only people left who could internalize all the diverse elements necessary to reach solutions to the world’s problems are high school dropouts! Yes! If one can only escape the regimentation experienced in public schools and learn for oneself to think creatively, if one can teach oneself to value reading on a daily basis, one can change the world. Unfortunately, society views high school dropouts as having no “credentials.” Didn’t graduate from a University?–no “credentials.”

        Strange isn’t it that those with “credentials” don’t seem to be getting us any closer to the solutions we need.

        The truth about #4 is hard to ascertain since most of the information released is filled with nonsense and outright falsehoods. But one thing I know for sure: people who don’t read will never find the truth, and, unfortunately that would include most Americans.


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      • StillJill StillJill

        You bring up a good point Bones. They say an alcoholic affects an average of 23 people,…with their antics and disease. These irradiated ones you mention,…all along our recent history,…what about their families,….are they now irradiated by their family member?


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    • enoughalready45 enoughalready45

      There are signs of significant deaths already. Fukushima Diary has an article that says Tokyo has reached the highest number of deaths ever.

      When you think of a massive genocide or an extinction level event it usually is related to war, disease or asteroid.

      These smaller doses of radiation that aren’t enough to kill immediately are killing people in a slow and less obvious way.

      It is like the old tale; If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will feel the heat and jump out but if you put him in a pot of cool water then heat it up slowly he won’t know he’s being cooked and by the time he figures it out it will be too late to jump out of the pot.


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      • fellfromthesun

        Just because Fukushima Diary prints it doesn’t mean it’s true. In fact, the opposite is more likely. According to Fukushima Diary, the plants are dying, there’s a mass breakdown in immune system function all over Japan, grasshoppers have turned pink, etc. etc., almost none of which is supported in reality. Don’t get me wrong, things are bad in the Tohoku, and there are very real long-term risks in Tokyo and much of the Kanto from incinerating radiated debris, cesium in the food, etc., but Fukushima Diary exaggerates and fabricates on a daily basis.

        Take the increase in deaths in Tokyo article: the increase from last year is a mere 0.03% — is that within the statistical margin of error? Is that due to the fact that Japan has an aging population, with more people hitting their natural time of death than ever before? Perhaps, but Fukushima Diary just loves to seize on ANY statistic and immediately blame it on Fukushima, with no evidence or data to back it up. There are people out there trying to figure out what is happening at Fukushima and report on it accurately –Fukushima Diary is NOT one of them.


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        • fellfromthesun

          I mean, only Fukushima Diary could run a photo of Mt. Fuji with a little cloud behind it and convince people it was blowing steam from an earthquake. Such a vent would hardly be a one-time event. Yet no more news of it. And no photos, because guess what, it’s not happening. Drove by Fuji on Sunday, looked fine. Mochizuki knows people will forget and move on to his next panic headline. Only Fukushima Diary could describe two earthquakes that occurred 100 km from Daiichi, not even in Fukushima prefecture for f_ck’s sake, as hydrogen explosions occurring due to melt-though under the reactors. Anyone who does even the least bit of fact-checking on most of his claims will quickly learn to not trust what’s reported on this blog. Ex-SKF is much better, IMO.


          Report comment

        • Enenews

          It’s great to critically analyze all information related to Fukushima, however let’s make sure we get the facts correct.

          Regarding the example cited, “Take the increase in deaths in Tokyo article: the increase from last year is a mere 0.03% — is that within the statistical margin of error?”

          FD reports the Tokyo deaths:

          2010 : 98,304
          2011 : 104,238

          That’s a 6% increase, rather than a 0.03% increase.

          http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/01/tokyo-marked-the-largest-death-number-in-its-history/


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  • KONDY KONDY

    Ruth – You mentioned your in CA, so am I. Are you aware that unit #3 at San Onofre has just had an unplanned “shut down”?


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    • ruth

      No I was not. Where did you see this info? San Onofre is south of me. I am up by Humboldt Bay where we have spent nuclear fuel rods encased in steel and concrete just waiting for the Juan de Fuca subduction zone to implode. At least no local radiation to worry about.


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  • Kevin Kevin

    WTF?

    Will this bullshit ever end?

    If this is true, and it may well be, as it was never properly explained why that containment blew with an idle reactor, than all best are off and once again everything we “know” about this gong show is back in question in again.

    Absolutely criminal what is going on here. We have to learn this kinda thing from some obscure blog while getting a healthy dose of steady bullshit from so called media.

    I cannot believe people are not in the streets with pitchforks. Or wait maybe I can, cuz no one knows.

    What utter, unfathomable, unprecedented, criminally insane bullshit.


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  • many moons

    We don’t have to worry about a nuclear war…we’ve nuked ourselves.


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  • jdotg

    More fukushima-diary, bull crap. I exposed their rumor mill last time, enenews posted an article of theirs. And I shall do it again if need be.

    For some reason, the website no longer loads, after I posted a comment on fukushima diary, debunking their boring article.

    If you have to mention, ” person is trustworthy.” Immediately raises a flag in my opinion. Lets be real here.

    Another story from a friend of a friend of an internet forum poster, these are always my favorite.

    We have pictures of the containment cap, sitting in the corner of the building. After explosions.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yi_Lr9W6bKo/TwmViBICHJI/AAAAAAAAB6Y/Xy2zcr39daY/s640/R4_topfloor1.jpg

    They have CCTV of the reactor cap and containment cap, sitting removed off of the reactor. Before the earthquake.
    http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/reactor4_insideplain.jpg

    If the fuel was actually in the reactor, instead of the fuel pool. Why did they tell us SFP #4 had its core in the pool? Why was the situation of SFP #4 so dire if it didnt have a fresh core load in it? Why were they testing the core without the containment lid or reactor lid? How did the maintain temps and pressure?

    Something smells funny at fukushima-diary. I think its the bull shit.


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    • Kevin Kevin

      Jdotg,

      All valid questions, however the translation says it was slated to start that day, which could easily explain why the cap may not have been on.

      The point is, once again we do not know. Why did the containment blow at reactor 4 while the fuel pool is perfectly in tact barring some very minor damage? How can fueless reactor blow? It clearly was not in the SFP and the explanations of hydrogen explosion as a result of being connected to reactor three are so far fetched its near incomcprehensible.

      Number 4 was always suspect, highly suspect. Whether ” the trustworthy anonymous nuclear worker” is speaking the truth here or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that with number 4 no one is speaking the truth and rumours from first hand witnesses, are a damn sight better than the bullshit we have been fed by industry, media and governments.


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      • Troll alert, jdotg is a troll, better quality than most who maybe get $10 per hour, but a troll nonetheless


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      • jdotg

        Kevin,
        Quite contrary, I do believe, if this anonymous tip, is factual or not, is entirely relevant.
        It would be a new development along with another meltdown to consider, along with its associated radiological emissions. So i do feel like if he is lying or not, is a rather big deal.

        My initial suspicions were raised as to the credibility of Fukushima-Diary, in past articles, he has posted as fact. His article of them boring under reactors, was the only word of this activity anywhere on the internet. I believed them to be wrong and showed how and why.

        I read this article and there is mountains of evidence to support that the reactor was not in “stand-by.”

        If it was indeed ready to come on line. The reactor would be sealed and pressurized, there is no arguing of this fact. Immediately after fuel is loaded, the reactor cap is put in place and sealed.

        In numerous photographs after the initial explosions of Reactor 4. You can see the containment cap, which covers, the reactor cap, which is bolted to the top of the reactor pressure vessel.

        The second link I showed is a picture of CCTV supposedly, and supposedly Photoshopped, of REACTOR 4, before the Earthquake. Yes it is Photoshopped with green lines for emphasis, but what else is manipulated? Looks pretty ordinary to me. In this photo both caps are clearly shown.

        As for how the building exploded, you got me. My belief is the hydrogen came from the zirconium cladding from the fresh fuel in the pool. Reacting with oxygen to produce hydrogen.


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        • Kevin Kevin

          The thing I love about the pro nuke types is their undying commitment to corner opposing views, nit pick and demand 100% accuracy. Then, when they feel they have sufficiently instilled enough doubt (bait) they instantly move (switch)to assasinate character in an attempt to discredit the entire body of work/commentary.

          What I love about it is three fold.

          One,no one can properly comment because the industry providdes no valid information for which certainty can be derived from, so they guarantee their own ability to perform this discrediting manouever.

          Secondly, they seem to think that applying such scrutiny to everyone besides themselves (hypocrisy) goes un noticed and when some dare mention it, they typically attack citing professional accreditation and how complex these things are.

          And finally, if this fails they reach deep into the tool box for any number of other tactics that obfuscate, deflect, confuse, threaten or otherwise devolvce the discussion into a realm where their inherent superiority trumps anything relevant in the argument and the point is thoroughly lost in the process.

          And thats just the rookies, or at stock says, the 10 dollar an hour ones.


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          • jdotg

            Blah blah blah, pro nuke this , blah blah whatever. Same can be said for anybody Anti-nuke. They just scream bloody murder. Whats the difference? Id prefer a technical response opposed to the typical hysteric fear driven response.

            100% accuracy regarding whether a reactor had fuel in it or not, is paramount. If he has supporting evidence, which backs up this wild claim by all means let us see. If not why fan the fire, and throw out rumors?

            You appear a master of your own supposed “pro nuke tactics.” To follow your own words, such as “devolving” this conversation from, Is this article factual? To a pro vs anti argument.

            Fukushima-diary has been shown to use sensational headlines to “bait” their readers. Within the article, the information is often “switched” rather misinterpreted or fluffed up, and the reader is then left with some kind of rumor or half-truth.

            My favorite part of the article @ fuku-diary is where the poster states “if this is true”. < RED FLAG

            Fortunately, what I was suggesting needs no technical information or data or understanding. Just a simple understanding of how the reactor works. When they take fuel out, they take off the cap. When the fuel is placed inside, the cap is replaced.

            And a picture showing the caps, Both mind you, not in operating configuration.

            As I see it, the article is fallacious. Debunked and a rumor. The evidence is above and explained. Case closed.


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            • Kevin Kevin

              Listen dude, stop wasting your time.

              First off, you light your hair on fire < – Red Flag, over a post from a blogger. In which he states a quote from an anonymous source and says himself right in his post “IF this is true” Clearly an admission that he does not endorse or otherwise forward any notion related to the quote but instead simply is providing the information. For some bizarre reason, you feel the need to attack and discredit. Frankly this approach of providing information is a damn sight better than any attempt we have seen in sharing information on behalf of industry, government or media. This is proven in this point you keep raising. It should be very easy for us to understand what the status of the reactor was. Its simply a matter relaying the information. It should be no secret what was happening at the time of the disaster and the fact that we are still debating the issues means we operating under a misinformation campaign. One which you seem only to happy to perpetuate. Now go back to your issues management classes or have your daddy teach you some real communication skills.


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              • jdotg

                I see you are on step 2 of your tactics of the pro-nuke crowd.


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                • Kevin Kevin

                  Actually more like three, but I do find it amusing to tie up pro nuke types with their own tactics.


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                • jdotg

                  Furthermore, you become angered. Because you can’t disprove what I have said. Slated to start, going to, planning, whatever.

                  If the fuel was in it, the cap would be on. It wasn’t.
                  Article=Bullshit

                  This so called misinformation campaign is supported and perpetuated by rumors and lies, such as, Reactor 4 has fuel in it. And others, that have originated from that site, somebody had an example of purple grasshoppers. Last week I posted on how nobody was boring under a reactor.

                  Me trying to discredit this information and the article is an attempt to quell and suppress this very misinformation, spouted out as “possible” truths. It should have stayed as a post on a blog, not reported on fuku-diary and certainly not here.

                  Perhaps you should take your own advice. Take the issue management classes, and perhaps they will show you how to respect somebodies opinion. Along with the essential skill of communicating. Clearly two departments, you yourself are severely lacking in.

                  Thank you, please come again.


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                  • Kevin Kevin

                    lol

                    What part of “IF this is true” do you difficutly understanding?

                    Its your perogative to have an opinion, no one argues that, even if said opinion may not be yours but rather a statement congruent with a misinformation campaign.

                    I am not angry, I said I was amused. And the point I have made despite your ignoring it (step three) is clear, concise and accurate.

                    Your attempts to discredit a blogger then subsequently discredit this administration of this site ( step one ) is what is suspect.

                    ENENEWS main admin is a lawyer who has proven beyond doubt that he filters posts here with an eye towards maintaining and building his credibility. Something you are attacking and failing in undermining, but fill your boots, if you feel it is something you must do.


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                    • jdotg

                      Our entire conversation has been futile.

                      I’m “having,” no difficulties. Its well established the report was malarkey.

                      Your hastily compiled and error ridden responses suggest otherwise. (step 2, attack)


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    • gr81 gr81

      I agree. I also believe Fuku Diary lied again.


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      • Kevin Kevin

        I am curious. Why do you think he “lied.”

        And how does posting a quote he found constitute a lie?

        Further what do you think would motivate a blogger to “lie” under such circumstances?

        When I consider your observation I find it difficult to imagine what would motivate someone who has identified a clear lack of valid information, something I think we all agree on, and subsequently decides to blog about it. At great risk to himself.

        I cannot then imagine he would “lie” thereby undermine his crediblity. Why would someone take such risks only to lie? It escapes me what would motivate such an occurance. Do you think he is a kamakazee blogger? Unhinged from reality?

        I simply cannot do the math and dont comprehend how someone would go through such great pains, risk and culpability and then simply “lie.” There is no sensible path of reasoning in that logic.


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        • jdotg

          I have proven before fuku-diary’s information is suspect, at best. Now after i posted a comment on the site, calling into question its validity. It no longer loads on this PC. That is suspect to me.

          Not the author producing a lie, but posting a quote from a forum as if it is factual information. That constitutes the lie.

          There is little evidence to support the forum poster’s claim. While information provides evidence that, the core was in the pool, such as it being the first one to boil. Hence it really being the only pool, you heard about. Supposedly because the full core load is in it.

          He has already undermined his credibility in my eyes previously, with his boring operation article, which I exposed here, last week I believe. He posts with sensationalism to get people to visit his website. Visits to a website generate revenue, one way or another.

          Ask stock, he plugs his blog consistently, whenever and wherever he can fit it in.

          Although, Im not entirely in the belief that its risky for him to post this information. But whatever. The only kudos he gets in my book is actually finding this information.


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          • fellfromthesun

            >There is little evidence to support the forum poster’s claim.
            >He posts with sensationalism to get people to visit his website.

            Completely agree. And this is coming from someone who has protested outside TEPCO’s offices. There are other better sources of info, for sure.


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      • Bones Bones

        Trying to provoke an emotional argument and the fallacy that if the information is not true then he is telling a lie on purpose to deceive us which discredits all the true stories he posts. Fukushima Diary is an excellent website and the author does great work gathering information from unofficial sources. Those sources are often more correct and honest than official government and TEPCO mouthpieces. As Kevin was saying, there is good reason to consider this is true, but we must wait till we hear more information.


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        • fellfromthesun

          Fukushima Diary has been caught in any number of exaggerations, distortions and outright lies. Mochizuki cherry-picks data to support the scariest hypothesis, and ignores anything that might not make for a good scary headline. He constantly relies on anonymous tweets for his “news”, and has been caught more than once using photos in a deceptive way. (Like the “mutated” pink grasshopper, a photo which was found on the Net dated PRIOR to the 3/11 accident.) It is definitely NOT trolling to question Fukushima Diary posts at this point.


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        Science 1 April 2011:
        Vol. 332 no. 6025 pp. 24-25
        DOI: 10.1126/science.332.6025.24
        NEWS & ANALYSIS
        JAPAN DISASTER
        Pool at Stricken Reactor #4 Holds Answers to Key Safety Questions
        Eli Kintisch*
        Of all the terrible news from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, reports about the spent fuel storage pool for reactor #4 may be among the most disconcerting for scientists. The pool held the entire complement of fuel rods from the reactor’s core, which had been emptied 3 months before the 11 March earthquake and tsunami struck. And yet on 15 March the building exploded, apparently fueled by hydrogen, leaving nuclear engineers to speculate about the source. Adding to the confusion are reports of fires in the pool, a worst-case scenario that had never before occurred in a working nuclear plant. Unraveling the mysteries surrounding the #4 pool will require discovering why water levels there fell so quickly and whether the 230 tons of spent nuclear fuel melted in addition to catching on fire.


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    • JTODG is a troll, other people, please don’t even waste your time reading his crap.


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    • Your so called pictures are shit, bogus. Please people, click on his pictures and draw your own conclusions, it is far easier to just read words and assume that the words describe what the pictures are saying….even if the pictures aren’t photoshopped which the second one obviously is.


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      • jdotg

        Stock,
        You know, I was just stating my opinion of the article. I was going to let your troll comments slide. But it just doesnt stop, ever. Like seriously, your asking to argue. I’m minding my business, Why cant you? Whether you agree or not is up to you, I dont care. But please, Is there really a need to call me names. This is rather ridiculous. Then you claim I Photoshopped a picture. Get real and leave me alone pal.

        Who is trolling now? ON EVERYTHING I POST. IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT I SAY DONT COMMENT, OR READ IT, GOD DAMN.

        You can google any picture of reactor 4 for yourself and see the containment cap, THE BIG YELLOW THING.

        It is infuriating coming to a website, voicing a opinion and then be labeled and ridiculed. I try to be respectful but it is next to freaking impossible with some of you people.


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    • bfly

      The article did not say instead of; they said in addition toI


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  • hbjon hbjon

    The mind tends to reject the math of a problem of this magnitude. Activate the damn giant robot somebody!


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    We will know where the fresh fuel is when the stronger earthquake hits and SFP 4 falls. It won’t be long until it happens, so no need to speculate.

    * I’m still convinced it’s in the pool, though.


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    • Bones Bones

      I tend to think it is in the pool, also. Either way, it is still a problem. Would the government rather say all the fuel was in the reactor with at least some containment system or it is all high up in the spent fuel pool with only water shielding the fuel? That is why I tend to think it is in the SFP too.


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      • Kevin Kevin

        The most recent post on ENENEWS on this issue moves closer to having fuel in the reactor.

        This stuff has me just furious. I had to take a break from the site for awhile just to regain my clarity and sense of utility.

        In my original post I alluded to the fact that this garbage criminal insanity. And what is almost as frightening as the threat this is posing to people is the criminal complicity of the industry and media.

        Its as if we are in a state of war. In fact I am convinced that is indeed the case.


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        • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

          “Its as if we are in a state of war. In fact I am convinced that is indeed the case.”

          Agreed!


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        • jdotg

          Moves closing by saying “the water was in contact with fuel in the spent fuel pool” ?

          Uh what?

          “The water contains radioactive materials as it is mixed up with water that is in contact with the fuel in the spent fuel tank”

          Haven’t they said the SFP is leaking? Haven’t it’s water levels decreased since new years quake?


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          • Kevin Kevin

            You are referring to the wrong post.

            That said, your officially on my ignore list.

            So lets save each other some time and cease and desist.

            I draw the line with commentary that sinks to name calling like “boneheads” (see number 3 where I left out name calling specifically because I did not imagine you would sink to that level here, not simply because its officially out of bounds, but I had thought the better of you, definitive word being “had”)


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  • itsfukncommunism itsfukncommunism

    http://www.microsimtech.com/sfp/
    As compared to typical nuclear power plant accidents, an SFP accident is slow in its evolution. A loss of cooling situation could take days to evaporate the pool water and hours to heat-up to the point of burning. However, events such as a catastrophic earthquake or intentional sabotage can be very quick in evolution. Should water supply be resumed following such events, the consequence can be mitigated. But if fresh water rather than the required borated water is used, either by administrative error or intentional sabotage, reduction of pool boron concentration may cause a return to criticality
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cancer-drugs-affect-mouse-genomes
    Genomic stability
    Genome instability has intrigued Dubrova for more than a decade. Dubrova and his colleagues were studying the effects of radiation when, purely by chance, they decided to look at mutation rates in the offspring of exposed mice. “What we found was the biggest surprise of my life,” he says. The children had several times more mutations in their eggs and sperm than their radiation-treated parents. “The genomes were unstable, and we still don’t know why,” Dubrova says
    I know why…. Do u know what this means?
    Your 6reactor genocide machine, finely tuned for maximum death has eliminated japan FACT< and possibly canada and usa. Try to tell somebody that perceives themselves smarter than you something, they will wish death upon you. Bon appetite’ as every1 is smarter than me and ev1 wishes me death they fuk themselves en masse’


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    • Fall out man!

      Wow. Thanks for that link about Genomic instability IFC. That’s very significant information. That means the disaster is far more serious than I had realized. (as with so much new information that has emerged)

      “Try to tell somebody that perceives themselves smarter than you something, they will wish death upon you.” Pride is a dangerous thing. With pride comes contention.

      The genetic angle on this disaster sadly is something that most people will not comprehend the seriousness of. Even without nuclear fallout each generation accumulates more mutations than the last (60 to 300 per human generation without Fukushima, Chernobyl, normally operation nuke plants emissions etc). Most mutations are so minor as to have no apparent effect and so natural selection cannot act upon them. That means they simply build up as genetic load weakening each generation. Current best estimates for how long man could survive before being genetically unviable are 10 to 100 thousand years. Its the “dirty little secret” of population genetics.

      This short article summarizes it well…
      http://creation.com/mutations-are-evolutions-end

      And John C Sanford, inventor of the Gene gun, which started the GE industry has written a book about it. Genetic decay will eventually wipe out all life. Life started out complex and as Genesis says, is in the “bondage of decay”.
      http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Entropy-Mystery-Genome-Sanford/dp/0981631606

      To understand that is to realize that nuclear power which causes genetic damage to surrounding communities even when operating normally, is driving all life on earth closer to extinction.

      Nuclear power has to end. What price do you put on the destruction of the genome? Its the code of life and its being destroyed.

      Seeing that the genetic decay gets worse in subsequent generations after radiation exposure is chilling. 80% of kids in the Ukraine and Belarus have some kind of sickness. What will happen in the next generation? Nuke power…


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    • Fall out man!

      It would be worth Enenews doing an official posting on that “Scientific” American article about genomic instability. Its a huge deal. Around normally operating nuke plants there are more still births, more cancers and more birth defects. (eg, recent research by Chris Busby ) According to “Scientific” American’s logic, even if Nuke power is stopped immediately, the genetic problems will continue to get worse in populations previously exposed to fallout. If this were admitted, it would have to be the end of nuclear power. Even if we end it now, the nightmare continues and only gets worse. Cancer is a problem, but its not the main killer from fallout exposure. An entire new generation is weaker, sicker and more likely to die of everything. (and more likely to be infertile, what price does a nation put on that?)


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    • StillJill StillJill

      itsfukncommunism,…. “Try to tell somebody that perceives themselves smarter than you something, they will wish death upon you. Bon appetite’ as every1 is smarter than me and ev1 wishes me death they fuk themselves en masse’”

      Here, here! Truer words were never spoken my friend!

      Evil thoughts in their hearts and heads that we can not even comprehend!


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    • Anthony Anthony

      I see your point.


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  • maax maax

    I thought the reactor 4 itself didn’t contain fuel when the accident happened.. only the pool was a concern. Did I miss something? :-/


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  • StillJill StillJill

    maax,…yes, that’s what we were all TOLD. Now, this is purported to be a ‘maybe rumor’, ‘maybe untrue’. We are still waiting for more confirming or denying FACTS.


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  • Wreedles Wreedles

    I so hate to say this, ’cause I’m sure that ppl will start calling me ‘shill’ and ‘troll.’ I’m not, I hate everything about these reactors and the insane organizations that have forced them down our throats to the doom of our beautiful planet. Having said that, a small physics lesson is in order, which also applies to recent worries about fuku 5 & 6.

    When a reactor is scrammed, the control rods insert into the nuclear fuel lattice, shutting down the reaction in seconds. So why do we need to keep cooling the reactors for so long to prevent a meltdown?

    The daughter products of fission. These are created by the operation of the reactor, and continue to decay after the reactor is shut down, generating residual heat, and are why cooling must continue after the actual fission reaction is stopped.

    So, a simple question: Would fresh fuel contain daughter products? No. No it wouldn’t. That is why fresh fuel doesn’t need to be continually cooled like used fuel. (Think about it, how would they ever get it to the plant if it had to be continuously cooled as soon as it was created?) This is why a fresh core in reactor 4 (and 5 and 6) isn’t such a big deal compared to the other adjacent diasasters; as much as I appreciate Fukushima Diary, I think they missed the boat here.


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    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      Daughter products are products of fission and not an ingredient…


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      • Wreedles Wreedles

        Right. Precisely. Which is why they’re not present in fresh fuel. Which is why a freshly fueled reactor doesn’t need long periods of cooling, because it hasn’t yet been operated with the fresh fuel and there are no duaghter products to decay and release heat. Which is why I don’t quite get all the recent worries such as this post, and the ones the last couple of days talking about 5 and 6 melting down too because they’d be refueled.

        I guess my point, if there is one, is that the ongoing disaster is bad enough without adding in things which aren’t worth wasting mental energy over.


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    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

      Hmm, Perhaps that is why it would take a year to meltdown? Does anyone know off hand? I need to research or ask my spouse who is a chemist and might know.


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  • patman

    The nuclear industry cannot stop lying.

    If these engineers had a choice between lying or being honest, even with long term consequences being equal, they would lie. Nuclear engineers think lying makes them seem clever.

    What are we going to do with these ass >I< holes?

    Nuclear engineers do not seem accountable to regulations or laws, there has been no sanction for this nuclear industry and insults perpetuated against our societies.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Did someone call jdotg..a big yellow thingy?


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  • PattieB PattieB

    it’s been confirmed visualy that there is currently 40 of the nasty P-239 ‘enrichment rods sitting in #4′s pool… how can it be in doubt that there are more of same in the reactor?.. if it’s been loaded!? The so-called ‘fires’ it has had… may well have been the stuff sitting inside the still open-topped core. This would mean that they have control rods inserted between them… this would allow them to heat enough to have ‘fire’ without it all going BOOM! The fuel pool however: DOESN’T have such control rods between the rod assemblies!

    So, serious grades of WORRY are still quite warrented!~


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  • PattieB PattieB

    That is supposing that it never is allowed to heat in the core to the point of it all slagging-down… like happened in #3′s causing the second of 2 ‘criticality EVENTS’ the first one that went skyward, triggering all the built-up hydrogen as well! Then, the nexted day… the second shotgun-like one that went downward mostly into the earth!

    HOWEVER! #3′s pool was near-enough half empty when it went BOOM!

    #4′s pool is JAMMED FULL nearly with a mixed bag of what was removed from the core, the old rods… U-238 & MOX, the new U-238 rods, the new MOX rods, AND 40 more STRAIT P-239 FUEL ASSEMBLY’s !!!!

    BE AFRAID!… BE VERY AFRAID!


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  • PattieB PattieB

    As to the blob in #4… my take is that they generaly keep the pool cool with water… UNTIL blob shows up, THEN add borated water to make it go away… as the borated water clogs-up the ‘filtering process’ faster than they can cope with. Also, the non-metalic pipes they are using for cooling/filering system is getting eaten by such borated water. Just one mor DOH! to add to the list of the simpson-like activity on-going at Tepco & Co.


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