Newspaper: FEMA tells residents to stop giving out supplies after Hurricane Sandy — “Latest word from FEMA to Island: Stop”

Published: November 13th, 2012 at 8:17 am ET
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Readers living near a nuclear facility may find this news of interest, as it appears FEMA would play a major role in the response to a large-scale nuclear incident.

Title: Latest word from FEMA to Island: Stop
Source: Shelter Island Reporter
Author: Julie Lane
Date: Nov. 12, 2012

Televised and published pictures plus personal appeals of Hurricane Sandy victims in New York and New Jersey touched the hearts of Shelter Islanders who generously filled truckloads of clothing and other goods bound for Island Park and Long Beach last week. But the word from the Federal Emergency Management Agency now is “stop.” [...]

“We stopped taking things now,” said Marie Eiffel whose boutiques on Shelter Island and in Sag Harbor have been drop-off centers for goods [...]

“It was great,” Ms. Eiffel said. “We did get to those people before FEMA stepped in and it was a great turnout,” she said of the goods contributed by her friends and neighbors to boost the relief effort. [...]

Shelter Island Police Officers Tom Cronin and Terrance LeGrady have suspended their efforts launched by Officer Cronin’s wife Susan, who posted a Face Book plea for contributions.

“We brought up a huge load and it was gone in 48 hours,” Officer Cronin said.

Officer Cronin said he understands FEMA’s need to coordinate what’s coming in and where it’s being distributed. At the same time, he resists the FEMA plea for people to give money, saying he prefers to know exactly what is being received by disaster victims. [...]

Watch: TV: U.S. now less prepared to deal with nuke disaster than before 3/11 (VIDEO) -- FEMA and NRC 'still studying' Fukushima

Published: November 13th, 2012 at 8:17 am ET
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95 comments to Newspaper: FEMA tells residents to stop giving out supplies after Hurricane Sandy — “Latest word from FEMA to Island: Stop”

  • jec jec

    Gee..why would FEMA stop neighbors from helping neighbors..would like to see the directives and comments from all involved. For anyone to stop desperately needed assistance would be criminal. So..what is it? Does anyone have information on what occurred? Is FEMA helping or hindering? Facts please..


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    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

      glad to see someone's bothering to ask why, jec.

      Seems our society's degenerating into an AJ hatefest. Had anyone bothered to actually read the website article, they'd have discovered that this is an effort to reduce duplication-of-effort and enhance the requisition process. These are, after all, emergency service responders. If they're allowed to do their job, they'll likely fulfill their charter mandates.

      Not to disparage to good will of the citizenry, but do we really want to defer to a mix of hodgepodge responses, or, the coordinated efforts of those who've committed their lives to such work? This is, after all, what we would expect from 'our' government…

      [excerpt]

      A community in need can “become easily overwhelmed with the amount of generous people who want to help,” according to FEMA. “Contacting and affiliating with an established organization will help to ensure that you are appropriately trained to respond in the most effective way.”

      [end excerpt]

      Supporting the efforts of emergency service organizations/workers will go a long way to keeping these recovery efforts on track…


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    • Maggie123

      Good question, jec, and good thoughts, Aftershock! I've not checked deeply but it may be FEMA and other first-responder training does not account for deep human need to "be part of the solution". I've thought about this ever since the first responder team concept showed up where I was in Canada.

      Part of 'first response system' may need to be ahead of the curve – to have clear plans on ways to allow community participation in recovery activity. I mean each/every citizen otherwise expected to respond to crisis with passiveness, left to fret with deepening anxiety.

      IF accommodating deep human need to be part of solution hasn't been built into FEMA type responses – maybe it's now shown as something important overlooked.

      One thing Occupy consensus meetings demonstrated and tried to address was valid 'gift' of question, thought, and problem solving that exists in every individual.

      It's a changing world. Shifting from hierarchical chains of command to horizontal web-style without everyone wandering loosely about, and tripping over one another, is new – yet vital to explore for better world, IMO.

      I hope what I'm noticing and suggesting is among thoughts of both the "too helpful" untrained AND those "officially in charge". One sure way to create frustration and even make real the "infantilization" of a people is to tell them to sit while others take charge. (one among my many 'drumbeat' themes!) :)

      IMO, this situation is opportunity to learn.


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      • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

        which is why I admire you Maggie123. You at least think before leaping…


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      • Maggie123

        For many reasons, community individuals will respond differently to trauma such as delivered by Sandy. Some may be exhausted or stunned and literally need to simply sit, to do little, to be served. That is absolutely fine and is part of their healing. Some may be already focused in 'micro need' situation such as a parent with children and have little focus/energy to do take action wider in scope than a small group. Some will be deeply traumatized and also very deeply need to "do something!" to work off an internal wild energy brought on by the shock if nothing else – but also to find themselves serving, perhaps carrying supplies to one of those immobilized by shock or to the person tending to a 'micro group' such as children.

        Since the goal, theoretically at least, is "repair and healing of human community" then IMO, these realities about deep human need are part of what we can learn to recognize, accommodate, and – ultimately – there is tremendous benefit – win, win, win, etc. :)


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        • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

          only several weeks ago, DHS/FEMA released an advisory that the public should be preparing for a 'zombie' like scenario. (I downloaded the PDF and have it somewhere.) Their intent was to take an 'impossible' scenario and have the public work within the framework of having to be on their own for weeks at a time. This type of service doesn't comport with the general take that the U.S. government is 'out to get us'. Nor does it fit into the idea that they're interested in fostering dependency. (In both instances, there is much room for discussion and analysis within other forums.) The point is, how many people – are – taking measures to protect themselves or their families from catastrophic conditions? We need to look at this and utilize the lessons from Hurricane Sandy, if we're to ensure the safety and general welfare of every nation's citizenry…


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          • Maggie123

            AFTERSHOCK – I need to 'shut up' for awhile on this thread, it has caught my passionate interest in psychology/sociology of human affairs! But IF "'zombie' like scenario" or anything that meant the same was in the advisory, IMO it supports my line of argument: Concepts of "community" have been completely perverted – it appears there is a belief that humanity, regardless of its living, breathing, creative, intelligent nature, needs to be managed to the nth degree and beyond. The perversion is that so many have fallen into practice toward this and don't realize they're actually zombie like in their need to control! "We must control … we must control … we must control – if we do not control then zombies will manifest among us". This is astonishing even as it can be analyzed and understood (how we got this far astray). It's mirrored in an economic system that wants to slot everyone into a 'role' to serve the machine. It's "all for the good of humanity". It's like belief humanity best thrives with our shoes nailed to the floor so we don't wander off and get into trouble! It betrays the entire essence of life itself and doesn't even know it's doing it! (IMO!) :)


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            • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

              agreed Maggie123. I don't like their analogy either. The use of 'zombies' is a roundabout way of discrimination. It fits perfectly with the idea of passing out shotguns to 'drones' who've been raised on violent video games. But I also recognize that it's also a matter of cluing the general – law-abiding – populace to what they may encounter. Given the lessons of Hurricane Katrina, we'd be well advised to do what's necessary to protect ourselves from rampaging trash. That said, I'll take my leave and offer you the last word…


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              • Maggie123

                Imagine a male head of house hold well steeped across generations in patriarchal authority. He genuinely believes it his duty and responsibility to direction family activities and behaviors. He believes this so deeply that his personal egoic identity depends on family bowing to his authority, which is his *role*, his justification as a human.

                Remember how deeply his belief runs and how it got there (by his own upbringing from the time he was a young boy, and by a surrounding society that supported the notion). Now, imagine his reaction when a crisis comes along and family members begin to behave creatively, intelligently, don't particularly need his direction. He loses identity in a fairly deep psychological way.

                I think a similar pattern is at work. Not only re FEMA, but throughout our "govern by elite" larger situation. (Does Obama have a 'mandate' of his design that voters approved? OR do citizens have a mandate which they have assigned to Obama. I think it's the latter – he's under our authority IMO.)

                Occupy threatened "institutional ego". Occupy was autonomous community, unafraid to creatively address structural community needs, unafraid to revise as problems emerged.

                IMO something much akin to 'egoic identity linked to role' creates alarm and push-back in hierarchical structures when their authority is ignored. Sad – even the 'dad' of imagined family above has gifts – could be 'win-win' working together IMO.

                (Hows that) :)


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                • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                  careful Maggie123. Some might interpret such thoughts to be those of a Libertarian…

                  Have fun!


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                  • Maggie123

                    It's funny to me – I'm 'all over the place' re ideas on society. I think if analyzed, deeper (psychological?) aspects of Libertarian ideas are found in Marx's writings and I'm not sure many have considered that! :) (Marx was keenly alert to the individual – the importance of the individual not being alienated from his/her 'core self'.)

                    But I am not a 'throw the kid in the water to teach him/her to swim', or 'by your own bootstraps', person. I am rooting for humanity to find its way to "individual blossoming in talent and interest in context of vibrant community". A mutually beneficial feedback loop of skill and sharing. I'm fond of democratic cooperative structures – ideally run with much consensus model decision making. :)


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                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  M123, all well thought out ideas. Aftershock, same to you. I have worked on may occasions with FEMA, coordinating efforts as a NGO in both individual crisis and long term stability issues on a much smaller scale when FEMA was just getting started. All the thinking and attitudes that you both lay out exist because of all the varied people that make up FEMA. But, the problem for FEMA, as well as nearly ALL governmental agencies i see today is the inability to coordinate very effectively or quickly with changing conditions on the ground and to include community efforts. The assumption is ALWAYS that the community will be inadequate. That is also the assumption of most NGO's and often it can be true, but, it WILL be true when you exclude survivors and victims from being involved and working together. FEMA will have trainings with agencies and staff to try and be better at their intervention, but, none of these actors EVER train with the community. And, let's not forget the L word that sends fear through every director – lawsuit. Americans sue, whine and complain to high heaven once they've deferred their responsibility onto an agent that is perceived as all powerful and all responsible. There are better ways.


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  • 16Penny 16Penny

    I don't think they expected people to still be neighborly. How will they be able to dupe victims into camps if they are getting the help they need in their neighborhoods. I think they are trying to "starve' people out of areas they do not want redeveloped.


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    • Maggie123

      16Penny – I'm not sure there's an intention to funnel people into camps, but I do think planners "don't expect people to still be neighborly".

      Not intentional – part of an overall cultural development across time. IMO, starts post WW2 with manufacturers and theorists noticing "the economy can't grow if people don't buy stuff". In came planned obsolescence, consumer credit, and increasingly sophisticated manipulation of "dreams and wishes" to convince people to buy stuff! Beautifully helped by simultaneous arrival of home television sets. Here, too, the economic system 'dictated' public communication should be bent to needs of "growth by profit".

      Citizens didn't protest as over time they ceased to be called 'citizen' and began to be called 'consumer'. Citizens-as-consumers were delighted to chase down new stuff to decorate homes, in fact newer bigger better homes with more bathrooms, everyone busy buying/selling to one another.

      All of it IMO was about everyone discovering "good times", with some valuable possibilities such as post-sec ed for kids.

      Feed-back loops swarming in all directions.

      IMO most in 'leader' roles are several generations beyond early changes, unaware of the process by which we've psychologically robbed ourselves. We are "infantilized". We are also hierarchical – so some believe in 'legitimate' authority over others, all for "a better future for everyone". Camps suggest "orderliness" as we proceed. Sincere…


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  • arclight arclight

    "…it appears FEMA would play a major role in the response to a large-scale nuclear incident…"

    oh dear….
    maybe they dont want food getting to the illegal foreign brown skinned types??

    Neo-Nazi Golden Dawn Party Gives Free Food to Greek Citizens Only Video

    Members of Greece's far-right Golden Dawn party have restricted deliveries of free food only to people who could prove they were Greek.

    Organisers asked for ID cards of dozens of people surrounding a delivery truck in Athens' Syntagma Square for a handout.

    The unemployed and the people with many children were served first. More than 200 people showed up, according to witnesses.

    One woman in the queue told the BBC that the initiative made "Golden Dawn much more attractive".

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/369126/20120801/golden-dawn-greece-free-food-syntagma-square.htm

    but we know its the machinations of WPP

    a good way to make fema popular amongst the citizens

    The Nuremberg Laws classified people with four German grandparents as "German or kindred blood", while people were classified as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents. A person with one or two Jewish grandparents was a Mischling, a crossbreed, of "mixed blood".[1] These laws deprived Jews of German citizenship and prohibited marriage between Jews and other Germans.[2]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Citizenship_Law

    go long on genetic eugenics.. :(


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  • MidwestDad

    This is where I would tell them they can take their stop order and shove it. It is simply criminal to stop a person from helping out his/her neighbor. What are they going to do arrest you for helping out the needy? What would be the charge? This is just simply ridiculous that I'm even seeing this!


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  • VyseLegendaire VyseLegendaire

    Latest word from residents to FEMA: Try me


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  • Sol Man

    FEMA is unaware of the teachings of Jesus, or any of the other of humanity's great teachers.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    DO they mean to say that people are to be overseen by a government agency..people need some sort of training from the government to lend a had to one's neighbor?

    FEMA is blatantly pimping organizations that clearly profit from disaster..cloaked under the guise of humanitarian relief.

    People will help each other..
    This is the nature of true humanity.

    What..? we have to hide when offering help to the suffering?
    Hide when offering a neighbor a cup of sugar..their child a glass of milk?
    What kind of oversee.. when one widow hands a handkerchief to another?


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    • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

      @Heart of the Rose

      Thanks you Heart! I would hope to find, under similar circumstances, that my friends and neighbors really cared about my welfare. I much prefer independent charity rather than government expense. And where was FEMA when Alexander Higgins was waiting to hear the Governor of New Jersey to speak? They left after he spoke.


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  • jec jec

    FEMA is over its head. Still OWES 18B to US Government for their program with Katrina. So guess the need to look IMPORTANT is critical to get okay for more spending? Sorry folks, FEMA may not be the best organized quasi-military group to help in immediate disasters situation. But its what is there. Vote for change…


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    @jec..yes..and while it is pretending to be well financed and what it is …people are suffering.
    The people should be given this truth..so they can better prepare themselves for emergency and recovering from emergency.
    It is their lives and destinies..not the word and interests of the government.


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  • gr81 gr81

    I believe what we have here is a failure to communicate. I see the gov't attempting to utilize any "emergency" (whether real or contrived) to "practice" their agenda21 mandates on us.

    We (used to) see FEMA "help" as offered by the government IF WE WANT IT.

    Our pro-new world order corrupt commurepublicrat government sees FEMA as a totalitarian form of government "help" as mandated by agenda21.


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  • drjamerica

    people are dealing with idiots in our gov. there is no such thing as to much help look at Katrina those people got Fukud and know there doing it again check out alt.news http://theintelhub.com/ it may not be the best reporters but it has some info on it. side note the last 6 months here at 4200' above e wenatchee wa 98802 average cpm 17 to 20 on a prm8000 if the monitor is really working no place really to test it. high cpm seen are in 40 to 60 put pretty rare


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  • papacares papacares

    it is all about "Incident Command" or who is in control

    remember if you are not part of the solution you are part
    of the problem

    ICS would naturally look at rogues as being operatives out
    of the equation.

    Example: during an ongoing forest fire several untrained operatives decide to enter into the fray at an area that would place them in emminent danger. while the intent is good these zealous individuals may actually compound the mission because they have operated outside of ICS with the possibility of ICS having to divert critical personell to save the eager untrained responders thus placing trained responders needlessly in harms way and further delaying a solution to the incident.

    anarchy is indeed one way to address a problem, but is it the best solution


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    • drjamerica

      If fema had proven them self competent than i might agree but these are cold and starving people and over abundance of food or clothing is not putting people emminent danger and i dont see how it would hinder femas relief efforts if neighbors are helping neighbors thats what americans do!


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    • Maggie123

      Good thoughts, papacares. IMO what is arising as an issue with relief and repair efforts is worth deeper study as I've commented a couple of time here.

      At initial onset of a monumental crisis such as Sandy, (or forest fire, more likely where I live) I want trained people fully in charge! If I'm told to keep my distance from the action, I'll keep my distance and like to think I'd not need to be told, that I'd back off and give them space to do what they need to do as or before they arrived. Same for an ambulance crew, and other trained first-responders.

      I also appreciate crisis management system designs are meant to be comprehensive, meant to have "thought of everything". I believe nearly everyone involved is sincere (as per normal population sample, a few may be 'control freaks' or such).

      A crisis, as it unfolds goes through phases. I'm sure they've considered this. It looks to me as if there may be a phase that needs further wisdom – the phase that develops when immediate threat for most people has subsided to the point they are now awake and ready to be active. I'm not sure there's an intelligent community-heal/repair plan for that — or if there is, it looks like it's showing a very important weakness. (??)


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    • Maggie123

      Papacares – "it is all about "Incident Command" or who is in control" – agreed, and a perversion of the very 'thing' said to the end goal, (thriving human community)!

      Re: "remember if you are not part of the solution you are part
      of the problem". My favorite variation of this: "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate." (Could mean almost anything of course – positive or negative – but I like it.) :)


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      • papacares papacares

        M123
        thanks for the great comments, it is surprising how quickly people forget the other disaster of the disaster that struck Joplin MO after the tornado struck there. too many people responded with to much and literally overwhelmed the responders and incident command. Sandy being much larger than the Joplin tornado will also cause some very unique circumstances for ICS to consider and learn from. Amazing how the anarchists always believe they are right on and to blazes with everyone else


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          papacares, is it really either/or? By simply setting up community response tents where those who wish to help can sign up and be given a task, this problem goes away. It is about control and a belief that control will allow for effective response. Let's look at an example of a lack of community response – Katrina. ONLY the government could get in there because it was cut off, so there was very little ability for the community to assist. And, those who tried were turned away by the various governmental agents because they didn't want those people becoming another victim as the thinking you're laying out goes. The level of FEMA response was completely out of touch with the realities on the ground that they would normally be getting from community members and local NGOs. The best emergency responses i have ever seen were when all three – government emergency responders, NGO's, especially local ones, and community members coordinated responses together.


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          • papacares papacares

            @vic
            your comments are right on everyone must be on the same page – am also an oregonian – remember the East Coast is much different than our coast – but when the 9m happened on 3/11 here on our coast a lot of emergency responders HQs were located in tsunami inundation zones and had to move to higher ground – as the operations centers were being moved to higher ground tons of anarchists began to assemble around the hastily set up centers and virtually blocked all access to Incident Command, emergency responders and emergency response vehicles – example: one such was so convinced the HQ at one local command center needed a motorhome to use as a HQ they totally blocked the entire area, making it impossible for anyone to do anything other than try to discover who owned the motorhome, where they were and how to move it, by the time the driver was located the congestion was so involved the whole area resembled what happens when you throw in a football to a group of zoo animals – just because someone has good intentions it does not necessarily mean they are right – people who care get involved, receive coordinated training and are educated on how to confront an emergency, but when anarchy rules the day when it is either my way or the highway then the stupidity of Nuclear Fission to boil water to create electricity makes sense as does allowing people to build homes 2 feet above or below the ocean


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  • blackbeer blackbeer

    I still need to research this FEMA statement a bit but it does seem a bit unenlightened. In this vid it is clear to me who is providing the needed emergency relief:http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/5/after_sandy_occupy_movement_re_emerges
    The same people who, last year, were being herded like animals, beaten like criminals, and arrested for partaking in the rights we all have as humans were the first and in some cases the only relief providers to those in dire straights. Just my feelings of course…

    Tom


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    • Maggie123

      Blackbeer – I, also, need to take time to understand the dynamics, its components, better. But IMO you bring focus to a likely unpredicted but inevitable "clash" between two contrasting understandings of how a community meets its needs.

      FEMA is officially designated to provide order and assistance. It operates by hierarchy (linear network draws instruction from central 'high authority'). NON-FEMA organization is experienced, skilled, yet unofficial. It operates by an informal, fluid, NON-hierarchical 'schemata'(identifies unmet needs, spontaneously organizes available skills and resources to address the need).

      IDEALLY – these two systems would find a way to work together. Ideally, the hierarchical model would recognize tremendous capacity of the non-hierarchical and would release 'turf' easily to a functioning non-hierarchical group. Ideally the hierarchical group would say/ask: "We have this list of resources, where can we deliver them to do the most good?"

      I visualize it this way: via govt resources, FEMA can deliver much. At same time, "on the ground, at grassroots" is real humanity – intelligent, creative, and organized. FEMA could/should see itself as "facilitator but not authority" – I think that's what I mean.

      I'm looking at post days of storm/aftermath. I'm looking at the "community heal/repair/rebuild" phase. I'm defining community as real life, living, breathing, intelligent, creative, humanity.


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      • blackbeer blackbeer

        Again Maggie, you have hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I had to leave right after I posted my thoughts, it's shrink day, and we talked a bit about this very subject. And it does seem to me that there is a concerted effort to draw humanity away from itself, to eliminate any since of community and the power contained within the very idea of community. I'm not saying this wearing the hat of a consperisy nut, it's just a feeling I have and have had for some time. There are ways to prepare for the unexpected of course, and we should all take that responsibility upon ourselves. There is also, in the Zen tradition, something called "Right Mind or Right Mindfulness" which I interpret as learning from the moment. In other words, not to be overly concerned with a projected and imagined possible catastrofic event, but to be opened to it and to trust in our ability to make the right choices in the moment. I don't know why I incorporate this into my life, I was exposed to Zen ideas many years ago, but it seems as though it is just part of growing up, or being aware of the importance of each and every experience that occurs throughout our lives. I'm not sure but I think it was Terence Mckenna that talked about being born into a lunatic isilem and because you were sane your behavior would be considered apporent in relation to the norm. That seems to be the world I find myself in…………….

        Tom


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        • Maggie123

          Blackbeer – one of my most steady drumbeats shows up all over this thread: awareness that is avoids entanglement inside "consensus reality". IMO we can and need to understand that consensus reality arises from vulnerability we each experience from Day1, and will likely always be a potential trap for individuals – therefore whole groups.

          I insist that if we stop long enough to study consensus reality we'll become "conversant" on this aspect of "being human". Once conversant, we can – without need for anger, blame, accusation – caution/remind one another on the nature of the trap. (Ye olde 'consciousness raising' scheme!)

          Almost all FEMA personnel "mean well". But they stay inside a "consensus reality" trap that says: "people need authority to organize them for their own good". Depending on how our lives unfolded, any of us could have ended up in the same trap. If we were in the trap, it would make sense to us. We'd be angry and/or fearful if anyone tried to dismantle it or to operate outside it's structure.

          Plato's cave, McKenna's asylum, e.e. cummings "The hardest thing to do is be yourself in a world determined to make you everybody else", (paraphrased). A very old dilemma for those who hold even vague awareness of "consensus reality"!

          All the more tricky when one treasures community as context for individual wellness!

          Re Zen: valuable I've found, when I am not entangled with past/future. Kid to parent: "Are we there yet?" (No.) :)


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          • blackbeer blackbeer

            Oh my god, e.e. cummings, how could I have forgotten him. A million years ago I had a record of him resiting that very poem along with others. I used to play that thing over and over again. Also, thank you for "consensus reality" I didn't have a name for it but I spend a great deal of time trying to get people to understand the concept. There is so much lacking in my education……………
            It is so much fun watching brains at work here, smells like victory……………….

            Tom


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            • Maggie123

              I only picked up 'consensus reality' myself a few months back, not sure where I got it and it sounded familiar as if I'd come across it in past studies.

              I kept hearing "the individual creates his/her own reality" offered as "wisdom", usually followed by something that meant "each individual is solely responsible for whatever they find overwhelming", ending with spoken/unspoken: "Get over it".

              My full life experience and training told me "wait, that's not right – something's missing". I *do* appreciate, value, reminders that we individuals can examine our thoughts, attitudes, beliefs, and work to adjust them for benefit.

              But it's also true that these are shaped by larger social context, rules, mores, etc. As cummings observed, social rules, mores, -, are extremely powerful. They exist through collections of individuals operating in what is recently called a "self-reinforcing echo chamber".

              Cultures (and sub-cultures) are akin to "cults". This has been stated by many. I think it's unavoidable – collections of humans do share expectations and will develop rules to enforce them, (consensus). If we're to "grow up", IMO, we need to be aware of the phenomenon.

              The FEMA folks are a task culture within a hierarchy valuing culture, within broad American culture. Occupy or Occupy type behaviors are sub-cultural within the broad culture. We can choose to look at it, IMO. :)


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Might someone finally notice why i don't capitalize my i's? Anyone? Ahem…anyway, blackbeer, i hope you find this reply cuz i specifically looked for you after reading my email and am putting a link here to votevets.org. A Kerry smear campaign is underway again by non-vets and it just needs to not be stomached. You may already have signed the petition, but, in case you haven't -

              http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/6676/p/salsa/web/tellafriend/public/?tell_a_friend_KEY=9449


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  • jump-ball jump-ball

    FEMA's responce To Sandy with "Closed Due To Weather" signs tells you all you need to know about the prospects of moving further away from localism to even more centralized federal responce schemes.

    Survivors of the unfolding, globalist-sponsored, world nuclear contamination debacle, my grandchildren hopefully among them, will take for granted their recovery in localized financial and political communities, as well as in areas of local energy production.

    'Activists who have ideas for creating employment, or responding to some other area of crisis, are increasingly seeing the community as the best place to apply their ideas and their energies. As these energies converge on the community, we are beginning to see the emergence of a generalized localization movement.'

    EnergyBulletin.net, Richard Moore

    'Around the world, there is a growing movement to pull back from the relentless march of corporate globalisation by re-rooting economic and social activities at the community level. From the burgeoning popularity of farmers’ markets and food co-ops to the revitalisation of community banking, people are organising themselves to reclaim the economy from large profit-driven corporations and instead build sustainable, local alternatives.'

    — Anna White, “Why Local Economies Matter”


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    • vivvi

      Yes, it's a bit like 'psychic fair cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances,' isn't it? If FEMA was doing what was expected of it by the people, there would not be the crying need for aid, with cold hungry people begging for assistance. Stuff FEMA and the horse it rode in on too. People are under no obligation to obey loony dictates from idiots. FEMA wouldn't care about duplication of effort. They just dont want word getting out of what a piss-poor job they are doing.


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    • Maggie123

      Jump-ball – re the Anna White quote, Thank you! and Yes, yes, yes! :)


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    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Yes, jump-ball, this is well said. May i add, there has been such a large move away from local and state control for the past 30 years thru the redistribution of resources – the States send resources to the federal level then the federal redistributes back to States depending upon a template criteria. I witnessed it as a non-profit provider. Good and bad reasons for this shift, but, not at all well thought out. Bureaucracies are exactly as their name implies- bureaus. Compartmentalized. Rigid. Slow to change or innovate. That is their job. This effort to make them into flexible, creative response entities is almost nearly impossible for the providers. In the first place, the very workplace is regimented and static. State and local can handle this so much better, but they tend to use the rainy day funding saved up for other things. The feds, even if they do the same, can push money around from one budget category to another in a pinch without jeopardizing the entire national budget. The original idea was this – the feds hold the funds then write a check when it's needed – and not at all what it has become – the feds doing the states job. This was primary presidents and congress messing with service and resource allocation.


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    In the depression they had the soup lines, people lined up to get their bowl of soup and bread for the day.
    People trusted other people more then.
    It was common to pick up a hitch hiker and leave doors open.

    I think some are afraid of what people could be serving others.

    However, I don't think they should have the right to stop people from helping others.

    Who is to say that someone from their organized group could slip something in the food?

    Heck, look at the recall foods we have, it happens even under guidelines.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Hurricane Sandy Refugees Feel Imprisoned In Tent Cities~FEMA Trailers NEXT~RFID

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRHNNRxgi6k


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    • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

      Tainted FEMA trailers should be destroyed, not sold

      In January, FEMA agreed to sell 93,000 trailers and 9,300 mobile homes — virtually all the units it still owns — for pennies on the dollar. The purchasers are wholesalers who plan to resell the mobile dwellings, and each unit will bear a sticker warning that it is for occasional use only, not residential use. The theory is that limited, episodic exposure to the formaldehyde — as would be experienced by someone who used a trailer as a storage container, say, or as a seasonal hunting lodge — is safer than continuous exposure from living, eating and sleeping inside.

      Still, the federal government is selling housing units that it knows are unsafe to live in. For an administration that claims to believe in consumer protection, this is no way to show the love.

      The agency has known about the problem for more than two decades. In the late 1980s, dozens of employees at the agency's Washington headquarters reported respiratory and other symptoms after a remodeling. One of the chemicals being released by the newly installed building materials was, you guessed it, formaldehyde.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031502291.html


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    • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

      I would rather see someone get 3 winter coats rather than wait for 1 from FEMA. I would rather someone get extra food rather than have to live off the meager amount given by FEMA. And I would rather the cash be given directly to those in need rather than be used without restriction or transparency by FEMA or Red Cross.

      And extra supplies can always be given to the homeless & those barley getting by in other parts of the US.


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  • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

    while we're about the business of police states…

    Just Before Hurricane Sandy, Obama Signed Executive Order Merging Homeland Security With Private Sector To Create Virtual Dictatorship

    http://shiftfrequency.com/ethan-a-huff-just-before-hurricane-sandy-obama-signed-executive-order-merging-homeland-security-with-private-sector-to-create-virtual-dictatorship/

    Executive order can be found here:

    Establishing the White House Homeland Security Partnership Council

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/10/26/executive-order-establishing-white-house-homeland-security-partnership-c

    Now…this'll should keep the AJ crowd jump'n…


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    • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

      @Aftershock

      I read that earlier. They merged with EVERYONE–any orgainization would do, and at their own expense! Groups against the people. And, the Chairman reports to (guess who?) the President only. Would they have the right to say NO?


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      • Maggie123

        NoPrevarication, Aftershock – for all my 'sociological theorizing' on this thread (concepts I firmly believe we need to include in analysis of what's going on) – it's true that present day trends are strongly bent toward centralized authority and enforcement of same. IMO, it's insanity – I can 'see' how it developed over time, but it's so far along that grassroots groups need strategies they can use when established authority decides to "assert itself".

        IMO Occupy explored a number of strategies – so we've watched and/or participated which is information we didn't have a few years back. We do know that across the nation there's an 'energy' of citizens mighty unpleased with increasing consolidation of centralized authority. This energy is important, but so far many groups seem "not on the same page" (not even on pages close to together in some cases!)

        What I hear over and over at various sites, on various community radio, is that we must *not* let down our watchfulness and/or action that needs doing.

        A development that won't help – Portland just lost a source of public affairs talk radio. Clear Channel controls huge amounts of radio and appears to be gradually "weeding out" progressive talk. While hearing of KPOJ's p. talk being flipped to Fox Sports, I've heard C.Channel has done this before. Bread and circuses knocks out of sharing thought/ideas! http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9721.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          M123 regarding radio. Clear Channel owned the show so it got to do whatever it wished with it. We do have localized progressive radio that is also usually live, through KBOO, KOPB, several colleges, etc. that are well established. I think Clear Channel made a money choice the same as it did with nearly all it's other Portland aired shows – Cutback and run pretaped programs that can be played any where. Sounds like you have a live disc jockey, but, their really all in Arizona or some such place. Instead of paying 100 jockeys and overhead, you only have to pay for one homebase and a handful of disc jockeys. The music sucks.


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          • Anthony Anthony

            Oh no! Even 95.3? That was SUCH a GREAT station!!!!


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          • Maggie123

            Thanks, Vic re Portland radio changes. I take in KBOO from time to time! :) I didn't elaborate on changes at KPOJ, probably shouldn't have mentioned it but elsewhere same day had heard unemployed "once by Clear Channel" progressive talk show host assert their program had brought in lots of advertising so money was not primary reason for shift — and that Bain Capital either owns or is a major partner in Clear Channel.

            A potentially huge OT theme – demise of community radio esp. progressive call-in as dynamic that further reduces already limited "open citizen dialogue" and exposure to the ideas that show up on prog. talk? I'm not prepared to dig deep and carry the load of such a discussion – mentioned it as aside 'heads up' for what may come of it re need for "malcontent" energies to find their way to 'same or close by' page! :)


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    • PurpleRain PurpleRain

      just bulll….. there's no virtual dictatorship BS… Homeland Security is too big for it's britches now, too many crazy-hoover-types already. That is just to start to make it less militaristic. Something some of you folks should like not get all twisted backwards about. ~


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  • markww markww

    FEMA was late did not show up in some areas and then closed during the snow storm. People finally had to do it them selves and FEMA says not too PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

    Markww


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  • amberlight amberlight

    Déja vu all over again…. I was with a group doing hurricane restoration work in the Lower 9th Ward after Katrina. Several of the people there had been involved in a grass roots effort to bring aid immediately after the catastrophe and had some interesting stories about the involvement of FEMA and the military.

    One fellow was bringing cases of potable water into a ravaged area that (surprise!) was getting no help from FEMA. He was stopped by troops brandishing automatic weapons, but he drove right into the neighborhood and started unloading. The soldiers caught up with him and repeated their cease & desist order. He signaled to his helpers to continue distributing water. People continued to haul the precious liquid home. The soldiers, unaccustomed to ordinary citizens defying their "authority," just stood there wondering what to do until all the water was distributed.

    I'd like to believe that the soldiers had an epiphany about where their true allegiance lies, however, I have no reason to believe that FEMA functions in the best interest of We the People. It is an agency designed from the start to exert control over us. Keep the sheeple in line.


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    • Maggie123

      amberlight, Midwest Dad – I think we're going to need strategies we can use when facing situations such as you (Amberlight) describe. It's a 'positive' sign to me that the soldiers at least just stood there – that gave their brains time to think about what was going on, who was doing what, and maybe to wake up to the rightness of the water-deliverer's action. But I think you're right "designed … to exert control, keep (us) in line."

      Midwest Dad (above) says: "I would tell them they can take their stop order and shove it." – similar to the water-deliverer, although maybe 'not hearing the stop order and continuing' is just as effective (less likely to spark an arrest?).

      … just had a ph. call that interrupted my train of thought but wanted to acknowledge both your posts on the issue of 'armed order keepers' vs ordinary citizens naturally and compassionately creating solutions to real need. Thanks!


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    • PurpleRain PurpleRain

      Common folks. FEMA doesn't own it's own army! If there are troops on the ground then 10-times out of 10 they are the individual state's own National Guard troops — what used to be called the state militia and they are trained to HELP people, not to work against them. Didn't you read about the soldiers who hand-carried the small canisters of gas up 9 or more flights of stairs to keep the supply for the generator going on at the hospital! OMG. The National Guard troops train to help out in emergency situations all the time, they help! They are on your f-in side cuz they are part of the local communities (usually). FEMA may have it's downfalls and short-falls and each state is run somewhat different with different leaders, but — it sure as hell is better then NOTHING! Be real! huh.


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      • Maggie123

        Hi Purple Rain (and Vic and others) – I certainly don't mean to 'trash' nat'l guard members or even military personnel response to humanitarian crises. WE – all of us – any of us – benefit from the tremendous capacity for care delivery that these systems can offer.

        The "water carrier" anecdote, IMO, is a positive glimpse that, given a moment's assessment, trained and untrained are on same page. Maybe it's not fair for any of us (me included) to 'assume' the armed guards were "too surprised". It's more optimistic and possibly valid to assume they understood citizen 'right response'. (But we're told of an interlude in which the citizen was commanded to cease/desist, a glimpse of something different happening at least momentarily.)

        I agree FEMA has taken rather a drumming in comments. I very much appreciate VicFromOregon's observations on internal structure of bureaucracies and reminder the word "bureau" is linked to practice of "compartmentalizing". (See comments to Papacares & Jump-ball above).

        RE junk stuff "donations": I've known a few who give true dreadful junk but most give stuff in pretty good shape or even go buy to donate. You're right to remind it needs sorting, cleaning – don't know if giant 'drop off' tent or bldg are part of pre-event planning but might be good idea, might help if "not in first 48hrs", and might be a place for untrained volunteers to help out. … Over all – much need met, much need remains, and always, much…


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        • Maggie123

          … much to learn. btw – "48 hrs" was top of head thought, as in "no furniture, … until victims say they're ready". Maybe the whole nation needs "standing depots", stocked and ready every so many miles per X population count (naw – many already have garages, basements, extra bedrooms with "stuff" that are default 'standing depots'.)

          But maybe communities could think ahead without "deep training" for emergency response and plan "How will we who are not trained best be ready to help in utter disaster if we're not among victims?" Local trained first responders could participate in a community pre-organizing at least informally. Community A could have a plan for how it would deliver services to Community B, etc. Am thinking of Swiss military – every household informed/potentially available …

          I recognize I'm merely letting my mind run, .. but am thinking of potential (we're told) for more along lines of massive, damaging, storms, flood, drought, fire, etc. … it's what I mean by using what does happen to revise/improve plans for next time … "much we can learn".

          We do not need to, nor should we IMO, over-indulge in angry accusation. Thanks for the feedback!! :)


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  • Maggie123

    Amberlight – "I'd like to believe that the soldiers had an epiphany about where their true allegiance lies,.." It's amazing that this is not a quick realization. IMO doesn't even have to be "us against them" but simply "this is human community and here's what I can do to help". Fear of stepping out of line is bad enough in the general population, those trained to "exert force" to "maintain order" are trained that much more precisely. (IMO A sound argument can be made that it's the "order keepers" and "authority defenders" who are actually the sheeple.)

    It's my hope that situations as this thread brings up are part of the whole culture waking up to itself.


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  • PurpleRain PurpleRain

    You know, some of you conspiracy-folks need to take a step back and start being a little more realistic. When I first read the headline the notion of people suddenly wanting to drop off old clothes and raggedy-old furniture was the first thing that came to my mind and sure enough that is what has happened with all those old clothes and 'junk" that people may have wanted to contribute out of the generosity of their heart and spirit, but – common. I'd have told them to STOP too! Piling up piles of crap does not help anyone. All of that stuff needs to be sorted and washed, etc, etc… they are just making a difficult situation all the more worse! People need food. People perhaps need doctors or nurses or elderly-care workers to go out and canvas the hardest hit areas…those people I'm sure would be of great service, but otherwise, they need to keep the streets and sidewalks clean and clear for utility works, etc…. I fully support the order by FEMA to say STOP!


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    • arclight arclight

      i think aftershock said it better than i.. but my gut response comes from the fact that fema are REALLY bad , for whatever reason, at dealing with disasters.. so far. and i compare this to european standards of emergency response.. in the uk people hand out cups of tea and biscuits and it helps alot!!
      people need to be together and not isolated during a disaster.. fema should be handling logistics and should be helpful and kind as opposed to strict and grumpy.. imo
      proplr shouldnt be offering furniture etc though, it must be an american quirk.. think using prisons is a bit off too!

      people shouldnt be bullied during a catastrophy and a little compassion goes along way..

      its certainly to early to work out the effectiveness of femas operations yet and hope they do a better job than in new orleans..

      anyway i am still concerned about peoples health and well being and am hoping fema gets it more right this time..

      omly thing is

      "conspiracy-folks"

      define that please….. comesacross as you think people are mad for not getting the news from the bbc (no conspiracies there eh? fukushima, jimmy saville, childrens thyroids, khazakstan, belarus.. etc but i suppose it might be just one person doing all that?)

      glocal dimming? or this favourite http://nuclear-news.net/2011/03/04/global-warming-agents-released-in-uranium-enrichment/

      then there was a climate cover up concerning nuclear in europe recently etc etc etc
      :)


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      • VanneV anne

        Some conspiracy theorists on this website don't even live in the US.


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        • VanneV anne

          Sorry, arclight. I was responding to PurpleRain. The conspiracy theories I really find kookie are that 9/11 was urban renewal (like who in the US would demolish buildings full of people?). And that Fukushima was caused by bombs. The only bomb at Fukushima was the MOX fuel put into an old decaying reactor that was never built to hold MOX fuel. Mox fuel is just a bomb planted by the nuclear industry. It is just waiting to go off. Another conspiracy that is kookie, IMHO, is the earthquake by North Anna was caused by bombs in underground tunnels. All of these are just disinformation to keep the nuclear industry and the fracking industry from being liable for destroying everything.

          Then I just heard from one blogger here that all we need is a small nuclear bomb to stop the oil leak in the GOM. Actually the mess in the floor of the GOM was caused by nuclear fracking in the first place. And the GOM is already so toxic, any more radiation is definitely not a cure for anything.


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          • Maggie123

            Thanks, Anne, for reminding us there is a wide range of "truth pursuit" that ends up labeled "conspiracy theory!" To me, some topics/themes certainly are in a "kooky" category! Sometimes I think in our imaginative but enthusiastic zeal we who speculate on "the outside" of forces we perceive, cook up much disinformation all by ourselves!

            A limited few, for me, are solid cases of "hmm … more to look at here than 'status-quo' encourages". But as my posts tend to reveal in excess sometimes, (espec. on this thread), I hold most of what we humans deliver to one another, no matter how dark/sinister, to be rooted in inadequate understanding of our own psychology – as in Hitler for example was "shaped" by a whole range of non-mysterious influences, and definitely was not "born."

            Explanations are never excuses or justifications, but if we grasp them, we can choose to shift cultures, child rearing, etc toward a better world.

            Main thing – wanted to thank you as per my first sentences – Thanks! :)


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    • 16Penny 16Penny

      You make a good point about people unloading crap on the Hurricane Sandy victims, them your argument falls apart.

      Doctor Says FEMA Ordered Him To Stop Treating Hurricane Victims
      http://rense.com/general67/doctorsaysFEMAordered.htm

      FEMA's vaunted "lean forward" strategy that called for advanced staging of supplies for emergency distribution failed to live up to its billing in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Sandy.
      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/02/FEMA-Still-Doesn-t-Have-Bottled-Water-to-Distribute-Finally-Places-Large-Order-Today-for-Delivery-Monday

      Also see Amberlight's post just a little ways up, a first hand account of how it is in the thick of it.

      I understand the need for coordination but if they are non-responsive to the needs of the people suffering, they have no business interfering with people providing relief in the interim. Had they sent a few trucks full of water along with the Nat'l guards giving the stop order, then that would make sense. He could just be guided to the nearest FEMA supply drop off site to unload.


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  • behappy1

    FEMA orders residents to stop giving out supplies

    who died and left them in charge
    thats the point

    fema falls under "homeland security"
    what a title
    the govt cant even run something as routine as the post office
    how can you be so foolish to think they do better in crisis mode.

    I live on the gulf coast, been through many hurricanes

    not sure what donated clothing is being called trash
    but when everything you own just got wiped out
    im sure an old jacket at that moment would be better then
    waiting 10 days for fema to sort, clean, and distribute a few.

    maybe its a southern thing
    we help each other down here
    and it doesnt matter if your union or not, just turn my power on.

    local authorities can best control what comes in and where its needed

    A storm does not give the federal govt the right to throw out
    the Constitution, conspiracy theorists, lol

    Im not a conspiracy theorists
    I dont want fema telling me what I need
    or what anyone could give me

    I dont want to be xrayed or molested at the airport
    I dont want to be treated like a suspect
    anywhere
    in MY country
    Im not a terrorist and I dont think 9-11
    made any increase of americans terrorist to justify
    treating us as such.

    homeland security through fema treat people
    in disasters like only they can save them

    makes people more dependant, its a clear abuse of power
    people have become so dependent on the govt

    The same pro nuke govt, all the comments on here how the people are…


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  • behappy1

    lied to on radiation, the sinkhole, whatever.
    The govt,
    ALL govts
    lie to the people
    all the time

    Power corrupts
    The cia director , just like bill clinton
    they likes sluts on the side
    another news flash, lol

    Remember, those who depend on fema to save them
    your odds of survival might increase
    if your cute and obey orders


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  • Radio VicFromOregon

    Here is an example of local leadership taking the initiative where feds just won't go so far regarding the ways banks get around having to reveal their ownership of home loans, which allows them to trade these loans secretly. It's also an example of how many government really are committed to helping create a better more just world. This is my county commissioner, Mark Krogin. The new legislation will apply to all of Oregon.

    http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=jmhriqcab&v=001EgdY2fhRL-U_UVGhsIIEcdD3J-7ZQhynO25esj-Sw5ROHThFtxcqrI12B4zErb3g09RKcIN9r3XZ3aT33cyCrgi0JkWp_MB-PpI_dbGpRzksmbW_86_dYxkrgM17tOum6HVjp7E2X3kw3_VMReDC3fA9bY7GKiQjZQS1BCx-pcwMXLdds1pnhZMzZHBUCeWq


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    • Maggie123

      Hooray Krogin and his county and Oregonians! Bit by bit .. but by bit … (I think other states may be considering similar – have heard before of MERS as a big issue – so good to be reminded of the work that goes on – Thanks!


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    FEMA"s intentions will prove up sooner than later.
    This country was founded on independence and self-reliance.

    On a personal note..I don't do well confined crowds.
    I'll be eating rat behind ..before I go.


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    I do believe in a crisis you help each other through it, even if you don't know the person. We all need to make a difference.

    In a disaster there is little chance the washing machines work and the water is probably contaminated. No one wants an epidemic to start. People are run down, which means their immune system is not as strong. This is what they could be afraid of.

    When you are hungry and cold you are not particular in what you get.

    There is going to be garbage laying around and people will dig into it to keep warm. In a disaster, it's not a clean place.

    The fact is, victims need help immediately. They can't expect these people to wait on them.

    There maybe people who may or may not want to go into a Government Organized Camp. We all should have other choices available.

    Free choices of where to go or what type of help you want should never be taken away.

    Help should not be stopped, instead everyone should be working together to better things. Instead of stopping help, give tips on how to organized and how to make supplies safer, to help lesson infections/disease.


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    • Anthony Anthony

      I bet no one in New York or Jersey thought their world would be turned upside down. I feel terrible for their struggle.


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      • Sickputer

        I feel great sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of households still in dire straits and without electricity..

        But there is no need for politicians or even victims to point fingers at the electric company. Repairs take time. Hurricane Alicia in 1983 took 6 weeks to restore everyone in Harris County (Houston). I know because I was a storm trooper for HL&P.

        If New England wants to prevent a repeat performance from future storms, then they better start getting a big wall built on the coast to protect infrastructure. Such a wall for most of New York City has been estimated to run about $6 billion. Since the losses are approaching that figure it might be time to start emulating the Dutch and St. Petersburg. Sandy was not a Camille-intensity storm. While direct hits on New York are rare, there is always the chance another big one will do even more damage.


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    • WindorSolarPlease

      Anthony, I agree I feel terrible for these people and anyone who is suffering.

      Sickputer you are right, things do take time to fix..They fixed things and another storm hits. Then they get the power on again and there isn't a home for some.

      Yes I agree they need a wall that pops up to hold back flood water.
      Our Country is starting to look old and not up to date.

      I personally would not live along a coastline, I do believe we will see more weather changes.


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    • Maggie123

      Additl humanitarian plight/sorrow: Haiti fall rain season on top of Sandy havoc – short article, http://www.africanglobe.net/headlines/heavy-rains-deaths-haiti-weeks-sandy/


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  • Maggie123

    Without re-starting heated points re Sandy relief success and failures, I'd like to share Naomi Klein's remarks as relevant:

    "There's an assumption those hard hit are so busy coping they don't have time to think about the Big-Picture, (in this case, climate change and future threats). The assumption is false. We visited … ordinary people hard hit brought up visions of new energy tech. (solar) as part of repair and re-structuring – these were unsolicited, the people introduced the ideas themselves." (Wildly paraphrased!)

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/15/naomi_klein_sandys_devastation_opens_space

    Note/heads up: ENEers who may 'bristle' at use of word 'socialism' may notice I think she used the word once early on. Those of us familiar do not view 'socialism' as part of a "control everyone agenda" but understand it as powerfully oriented to grass-roots, community based, democratic self-development societal approach to self-governance – as per the intent of the philosophy, and it's ongoing intent – and as we witnessed "explored" in Occupy consensus decision making, etc. :)

    Related, same Democracy Now program (today): See upper right sidebar links to "Rolling Jubilee – Occupy tackles distressed debt" and re climate change see "Chasing Ice". The 3 as a 'set' have some inter-woven concepts. (Well, I've not yet viewed 'chasing ice' so can't confirm that!) :)


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