*Updated w/ Video* Study Authors: Now 20,000 excess U.S. deaths after Fukushima, not 14,000? Follow up article looking at age groups, cities

Published: January 19th, 2012 at 6:41 pm ET
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UPDATE: Video finally available below

SOURCE: Nuclear Hotseat podcast
DATE: Jan. 12, 2012

Interview w/Dr. Janette Sherman and Joseph Mangano, co-authors of the medical journal article on 14,000 excess U.S. deaths following Fukushima.

Transcript Summary at 31:30 in

Mangano:

  • Follow up journal article looking at additional deaths
  • 14,000 may be closer to 20,000 excess deaths
  • Looking at age groups, different cities

Sherman:

  • At Chernobyl, entire biological sphere has been affected

Download the program here: http://lhalevy.audioacrobat.com/deluge/NuclearHotseat-31_1-12-12.mp3

The study has been in the news quite a bit lately. A few nights ago, it was discussed by Dr. John Apsley for over 30 minutes on the U.S.’s number one late night radio program Coast to Coast AM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhSCuCtqhYY

Apsley and nuclear engineer Arnold Gundersen appeared on a radio program together in July. Listen here: http://media.blubrry.com/rayedio/p/radio.rumormillnews.com/podcast/samples/2011/20110718-arniegundersen-johnapsley0.mp3

More Nuclear Hotseat programs here

Published: January 19th, 2012 at 6:41 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
101 comments

Related Posts

  1. More on new study of excess deaths in US after Fukushima (AUDIO & VIDEO) December 20, 2011
  2. MD: Infant deaths also up in B.C., Canada after Fukushima — Corroborates U.S. study (VIDEO) December 22, 2011
  3. Idaho TV: “Data showed a large spike in deaths — particularly infant deaths — in the 14 weeks following the Fukushima meltdown” -Report (VIDEO) January 25, 2012
  4. Medical Journal Article: 14,000 U.S. deaths after Fukushima fallout — Streaming audio online at 4pm December 19, 2011
  5. Caldicott: “We’re talking about a disaster of unbound proportions” from Fukushima Daiichi — 2.5 to 3 million deaths a possibility (VIDEO) July 8, 2012

101 comments to *Updated w/ Video* Study Authors: Now 20,000 excess U.S. deaths after Fukushima, not 14,000? Follow up article looking at age groups, cities

  • bmurr bmurr

    This study has been pretty much debunked. Im not saying things arent bad, but this studay siting 14000 deaths is just bad information.


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    • Bobby1

      Debunked? I must have missed that.


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    • Enenews Admin

      Either way it needs to be discussed… it’s in the news and getting more attention in the semi-main-stream-media like Coast2CoastAM (above) and RedIce Radio:



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      • bmurr bmurr

        James discounted the study on his radio show last week. The fudged the number of sited cities before march 11th to attain the desired results.


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        • Bobby1

          There was no fudging or cherry picking in the study. It was ultraconservative in every way. It probably understated the number of deaths for this reason.


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          • ion jean ion jean

            Agreed. I can tell you from first hand information that I have seen a wave of pneumonia locally this fall that hit population groups normally not vulnerable…and I’m in the NE USA…we’re talking males in their 30s and 40s…ending up with almost collapsed lungs and now dependent on inhalers…they both had very minor lung issues beforehand…

            So ANYONE with a compromised immune or organ system got hit with FukU RADs in the US regardless of their age group. I’m grateful for these studies but I think they still don’t factor in existing radiological contamination of long lived isotopes in the soils of the US that continue to poison our food and water to this day. Only epidemiological studies over a period of years will reveal the true scope of this because our governments WON’T!


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            • moonshellblue moonshellblue

              Yes, I have also and live in PA and know of 3 individuals who have been dx’d with pneumonia. Highly unusual as it was during the summer months. Things that make ya go hmmmm.


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          • Exactly. The authors deliberately DID NOT include deaths of flu/pneumonia. Which are the biggest variable factor season to season and year to year. Though when considering Fukushima radiation as a factor in depressed immune function and such (as would statistically result in higher death rate overall), flu and pneumonia would logically be affected.

            None of the excess deaths noted were or ever will be blamed on radiation, so radiation lovers can always say radiation didn’t contribute to their deaths. But that’s like saying AIDS doesn’t kill anybody, some opportune infection or cancer that develops because the immune system is not functioning kills people. Duh. Just become some nuke or other claims the study has been “debunked,” doesn’t mean it’s actually been debunked.


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          • ShineTheLight

            I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Mangano late last March.Nothing about this man is sensational or over the top. His brain and his heart have longed been engaged in this fight.


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        • There have been pot shots taken for sure.
          This will be a nail in the nuker coffin, a big one, so the pro nuke pimps will throw everything they have at it.

          I listened to a long interview with the authors, last week. They were very credible.


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    • Sickputer

      I don’t know about debunking pure math… Here is how I think it works or should work.

      You check and see how many people died 12 months before 311. Death by illness, old age, stillbirths, are the criteria… No car crash victims, suicides etc (although I am sure some 311 causality may be found even in those deaths.)

      Subtract the pre-311 deaths from post 12 month deaths.

      This only works in a country with fairly accessible death information. You will not find this information available in Japan nationwide.

      SP


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      • Bobby1

        The Japanese health ministry estimated that 64,000 more people died in 2011 than in 2010:

        http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201201020058

        That includes 20,000 dead or missing from the earthquake & tsunami.

        That leaves 44,000 increased dead. But the death rate has been increasing in recent years in Japan due to an aging society.


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      • aigeezer aigeezer

        There are other variables. For example, existing trend lines may or may not be reasonably extrapolated. In an aging society, for instance, mortality rates could be increasing overall, with or without any additional disaster. In a society in which, hypothetically, levels of, say, morbid obesity, or cancer, or diabetes were already increasing significantly, then it would not be appropriate to use the linear model you cite.

        I have no idea whether or not the study cited used appropriate methodology or came to valid conclusions. I’m just saying there is more to be considered than one might first imagine.

        For me, the value in such a study is that it might get Joe and Jane Public talking about Fukushima. Arguments about 20,000 vs 14,000 hypothetical “excess deaths” may not be scientifically useful but they are culturally useful.


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      • bmurr bmurr

        I would be the first person to celebrate when they close down all of the cancer spewing nuke sites. And I don’t celebrate 14,000 or 20,000 deaths, whether they be from fuku or any other reason.

        I’m pretty sure we have all seen this -
        http://fukushimaupdate.com/garbage-in-anti-nuclear-propaganda-out-the-14000-death-fukushima-lie/

        And listen to James Corbett’s own response to it.
        Check out James Corbett’s response to the recent article
        http://www.corbettreport.com/corbett-report-radio-048-pissing-on-corpses-and-food-world-order/

        Then make up your own mind.

        Nukes – bad
        Bad science – bad

        Fanatically anti nuke people clinging to bad science – good for
        nuke industry.


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      • Human0815

        @ Sickputer,
        this is not true,
        we can see the Data when we dig,
        as Bobby1 showed already!

        And here we can see a critique on this Study:
        http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.3313/news_detail.asp

        There will be Death in the US very soon
        but not now!


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        • Human0815

          The critique that you posted is flawed.

          The flaw in the argument is found in this statement here: “First, Dr. Bloom argues, if such radiation were to cause any deaths, it would theoretically do so by either causing cancer or through radiation poisoning.”

          The effects of radiation are not simply limited to cancer and radiation poisoning.

          This argument that radiation kills only through cancer and overt poisoning is akin to early 20th century claims by the paint industry scientists that lead ONLY harms through overt poisoning, called plumbism.

          Scientists paid by the paint industry focused only on the most overt symptoms and ignored long term clinical effects. The effects were finally documented in innovative studies by Needleham (sp?).

          Like the paint studies, some radiation scientists spew falsities to protect an industry.

          Radiation causes many, many symptoms impacting circulatory systems, endocrine systems through thyroid, etc etc.

          The bird study and the study by Gould and Goldman established these low level effects after Chernobyl in the US
          http://enenews.com/huge-spike-in-us-infant-mortality-in-the-four-months-after-chernobyl-video

          bird study
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hcBGSr9QGk


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        • hanaloa hanaloa

          Josh Bloom is a shill as confirmed by his own admission at the end of his oped “debunking” piece in Forbes:

          “I happen to believe that, given the available technology, nuclear power is among the safest, cleanest and most practical options we have.”


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          • aigeezer aigeezer

            If Bloom is a shill he’s a different breed from the ones we usually hear about. Usually when I hear someone called a nuke shill I can find their direct links to the nuke industry after about one minute with Google.

            Not so with this guy – clean as a whistle on the usual searches. There are several Josh Blooms in academia, which complicates things a bit, but none I found had any obvious connections to nuke-world.

            Digging a bit deeper, I found he is prominent in “the American Council on Science and Health” – an organization I had never heard of. Their blurb says they try to argue against junk science, which certainly seems worthwhile.

            The more I looked at their site though, the more it seemed that their position was always pro-industry: big pharma, big chemical, big tobacco… (but not nuke, as far as I could see).

            http://www.acsh.org/

            So… you may be right – Josh Bloom might be a nuke shill – but if so it is not because he says he believes nuke power is good. Lots of non-shills believe that also. I am not among them.

            One thing that has puzzled me throughout the Fukushima crisis – why haven’t big oil and/or big coal conspicuously gone for the nuke industry’s jugular? My fear has been that there is an overriding common interest, call it “big everything” (as in interlocking directorships), that keeps them from competing meaningfully with each other.

            Anyone got any hard data on “the American Council on Science and Health” and their role in nuke-world?

            SHUT THEM ALL DOWN (nukes, that is).


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          • Thanks for the shill, even if talented shill, confirmation.

            SHUT THEM ALL DOWN


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        • StillJill StillJill

          There already is,…I’ve gone to funerals. Oh, that’s right, healthy people in their 20′s, 30′s, and 40′s drop dead all the time. You already said that earlier.


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    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

      Sorry but they have debunked the debunkers S.A. in general and that article is full of…… IMHOI
      I will try and find the article and post.


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      • In June, Counterpunch published the study by Sherman and Mangano, which reported a 35% spike in infant mortality rates for the 10 weeks following Fukushima’s March releases in 8 US cities (Boise ID, Seattle WA, Portland OR, plus the northern California cities of Santa Cruz, Sacramento, San Francisco, San Jose, and Berkeley).

        The report, using CDC data, was questioned for cherry picking data to support conclusions.

        Counterpunch subsequently had their statistical consultant, Pierre Sprey, to evaluate the data. Counterpunch editor Alexander Cockburn summarized Sprey’s results:

        [excerpt] During the ten weeks before March 11 those four cities suffered 55 deaths among infants less than one year old. In the ten weeks after Fukushima 78 infants died – a 42 per cent increase and one that is statistically significant. To confirm once again that these results were not due to seasonality Sprey compared these infant deaths in the ten weeks after Fukushima to the deaths in the equivalent ten weeks a year earlier. The results were almost identical with the ten weeks before Fukushima in 2011. Within the equivalent ten weeks of 2010 53 infants died in these four cities.

        The post-Fukushima deaths are 47 per cent higher than they were in the same period a year before – once again statistically significant. If you add Boisie, Idaho to the four city sample the results remain almost unchanged. [end excerpt]


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        • SUBSEQUENTLY
          The study results were publicized by the news media, resulting in a secondary study of excess mortality statistics in Philadelphia, a city which had the highest reported radiation levels in precipitation in the wake of Fukushima.

          Janette D. Sherman and Joseph Mangano “Is the Increase in Baby Deaths in the US a Result of Fukushima Fallout?” Counterpunch (2011, June 11-12): http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/06/10/is-the-increase-in-baby-deaths-in-the-us-a-result-of-fukushima-fallout/.

          Cited in Alexander Cockburn “Post-Fukushima Infant Deaths in the Pacific Northwest,” Counterpunch (2011, June 17): http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn06172011.html.

          The Philadelphia study was conducted by Joseph Mangano, Executive Director of the Radiation and Public Health Project in New York, and was reported by Fox News 29 of Philadelphia and posted at YouTube on June 17 2011 with the title, “Is Iodine-131 Killing Babies in Philadelphia? Infant Deaths up 48% Since Reactor #3 Exploded,” YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMV4p6RS1c8.


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        • aigeezer aigeezer

          I wish they hadn’t added Boise, as it leaves open the possibility that they looked for a city that matched their needs. If they had been able to say something like “add any American city to the sample and the results are almost unchanged” it would be more convincing.

          Other possible confounds are that “post-Fukushima” is also post-earthquake and post-tsunami – probably not a good time to be an infant, regardless of Fukushima.

          In any case,

          SHUT THEM ALL DOWN


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    • US Deaths from Fukushima Radiation Study – YouTube.flv

      Uploaded by grgstaffordbackup on Dec 28, 2011

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSJZfINpWwk&feature=related


      Report comment

    • http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/01/fukushima-radiation-spreads-worldwide.html

      Fukushima Radiation Spreads Worldwide
      Posted on January 18, 2012 by WashingtonsBlog
      California, Finland, Canada, Australia Hit By Radiation

      The University of California at Berkeley detected cesium levels in San Francisco area milk above over EPA limits … and even higher than they were 6 months ago.

      Finnish public television says that cesium from Fukushima has been detected in lichens, fungi and elk and reindeer meat in Finland.

      The Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency confirmed a radiation cloud over the East Coast of Australia.

      The West Coast of Canada is getting hit by debris from Japan … and at least some of it is likely radioactive.

      The authors of the controversial study claiming 14,000 deaths in the U.S. so far from Fukushima are now upping their figure to 20,000. I spoke with nuclear health expert Chris Busby about their study, and he said that mortality figures fluctuate pretty substantially in the normal course, and so it is hard to know at this point one way or the other whether their figures are accurate.

      And while there is no evidence linking them to Fukushima, Bed Bath and Beyond has recalled radioactive tissue holders after they set off police radiation monitors aboard a delivery truck This may just be an example of the incredibly lax handling of radioactive materials.

      And thyroid cancers are – mysteriously – on the rise in the U.S.

      But don’t worry: The owner of the Fukushima plant has the plant in cold shutdown, so everything is “under control” … Although temperatures have apparently jumped inside Fukushima’s number 2 reactor, and the Japanese have no idea where the nuclear fuel has gone, so they are drilling a hole into the containment vessel to try to find it.


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  • or-well

    14, now 20, do I hear 30?
    There’s then and there’s now

    AND THEN THERE’S FOREVER!

    No need to get shirty
    and call on heuristics
    We get stuffed by the weather
    whatever statistics.

    Some will chaff chide and rebuff
    when common sense says
    one is more than enough.

    I mean hot particles
    and NPPs -
    The program that powers
    nuclear disease,
    The pogromme, the putsch
    the coup against life -
    transuranic insanity
    blithely defended
    by crooks anti-humanity
    and by power depraved -
    to bring those ones down
    will take many being brave.


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  • or-well

    Can’t resist.

    The pro-nuclear skunks
    in a post-Fuku funk
    got so excited
    they were grabbing their junk
    from statistical trunks
    trying to debunk
    whatever numbers
    that said it all stunk.
    “Let’s rebunk the debunk
    and crank up the spin,
    muddy the waters
    and have a Science Crap-In.
    We’ve legions in Media
    of post-bunking lunks -
    we’ll give all the sheeple
    a Pre-bunking dunk
    so the next time it happens
    they won’t realise we’ve shrunk
    their populations.


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    • ion jean ion jean

      Corporation domination showers fallout rain
      Burning maples, on the table in the fish we prized
      While the toxins in this Land I Love
      Run through my veins
      I am troubled, but at least I’m not surprized
      I am troubled, but at least I’m not surprised

      (Sorry U can’t hear the music but it’s from a song I wrote)


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    • ion jean ion jean

      @or-well You are quite a most excellent poet!


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      • or-well

        Thanks. For those who think it’s just silliness:

        RE-BUNK – restating a position that is not well-supported factually, or restating it with details changed. Serves to promote confusion, intended to support a weak or unsupportable position.

        POST-BUNKING – pro-active and after-the-fact. Restates a position, or promotes false/misleading info
        or adds false/misleading info in response to new or discovered conditions. May serve to reposition or even change a previously stated position or intention.

        PRE-BUNKING – falsely positioning future intended acts or consequences, falsely framing terms of future discussion, serves to obfuscate and/or limit discovery through complete dialogue.

        In a word – propaganda.


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        • ion jean ion jean

          Then there’s DE BUNKING and that’s exclusively our job!


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          • or-well

            ion jean, I heard music in your post, harmonious truth is a song within us all. No. Within most, not all.


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            • ion jean ion jean

              Thanks or-well…NoNukes is right: we should have a poetry forum

              The arts can heal our broken world and open people’s hearts and minds

              The first and hardest step is getting folks to understand and believe that on the nuclear power matter (and others), their government has pathologically LIED TO THEM their ENTIRE lives!


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              • or-well

                ion jean,”theater” helps teach dissent, by dramatising and story-telling in very accessible ways the hidden truths.

                Poster “Bones” had a good idea on the Bed and Bath thread about rad-suited geigering consumers going about stores testing!

                I liked it so I “bumped” it up with a rhyme, wondering if anybody would connect.


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        • hbjon hbjon

          There is a couple ways to reach a fact. One way, which is now in fashion, is to read the internet, periodicals, and literature that the media and corporations put out there. The other is to find it out for yourself. Ask a few simple questions. Where do people die? What are the main complaints before death? What was the lifestyle of the deceased? Test the persons home environment. Examine the food, water, and air that the person was exposed to. If there is difficulty in finding answers to the simple questions, then I would ask the thing that resists you having this knowledge. Why is this an unknowable? The answer will be illogical and have to do with ones bad feelings or emotions. Nowadays, if you have 10 deaths within a 10km radius, a computer can tell you what they all bought at the grocery store and find commonalities. This is actually how they find out about food born illnesses. Unless, someone wants to do the heavy lifting and visit the homes and ask family members the tough questions.


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    Do they mean deaths on top of the estimated 24.000 caused by coal plant emissions each year in the US? People who die just because the industry thinks filtering techniques are too expensive?
    For how many decades has this been going on? Where’s the public outcry? Just thinking.

    Concerning CSAPR:”In addition to preventing avoidable premature deaths, the Cross-State rule is estimated to prevent 15,000 additional (non-fatal) heart attacks, 19,000 attacks of acute bronchitis; 420,000 upper and lower respiratory symptoms, 400,000 aggravated asthma attacks; and 19,000 hospital and ER trips (e.g., for asthma attacks triggered by soot from coal burning). As a result of reducing the health detriments from burning coal without using available pollution controls, it is expected to reduce days when people must miss work or school by 1.8 million.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_the_coal_industry

    No doubt that Fuku is adding a great deal to those numbers, but there are a lot of local / national issues to be adressed as well at this point.

    *peace


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  • isogoodhumans

    Good friend in SF had debilitating pneumonia late Mar to early Apr 2011. Couldn’t make it to work for 3 weeks. Family doctor said “seeing a lot of these severe pneumonia cases, caused by Fukushima fallout.

    He is mid 30s; active surfer, very healthy.

    Try telling him these numbers aren’t real. He almost lost his job and his life. I am sure he will give any troll or nuke shill more than a piece of his mind


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    • ion jean ion jean

      I know two men in this age group on the northern East Coast who suffered this same pneumonia in October. Strange pattern emerging here, no? One had a relapse after traveling south for a week, both are currently on daily inhalers to keep their lungs from collapsing.


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    • Well if he is OK, get him going to contact some stars like Eric Clapton and do a nu nukes campaign of song and concert, raising a $1M for no nuke.


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  • NoNukes NoNukes

    Dear Admin, can we please have a poetry thread? Who would have guessed that we’d need one, right? Impressive work, or-well and ion jean.

    This is one debunking of the debunking that I read (you have to scroll down):
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/06/17/definitely-bachmann-over-weiner/

    The statistician tried moving the area studied North, and
    “The post-Fukushima deaths are 47 per cent higher than they were in the same period a year before ? once again statistically significant.”


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    • ion jean ion jean

      Thank you NoNukes and Majia! The radiation in the 60s gave me my talent very early in life…I can never sit still for long…brain’s always cranking on an isotope speed trip!

      As for the North phenomena…the high northern latitudes collect fallout like a funnel…so effects are always higher…weaker magnetic field?


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    Talking of pneumonia: I’ve been watching the Japanese “Infectuous disease surveillance center” page closely. They usually updated it each Friday. Since Dec. 23, they only updated it once on Jan. 6.
    At the moment, numbers are dropping slightly, but are still ridiculously high compared to past 10 years.

    http://idsc.nih.go.jp/idwr/kanja/weeklygraph/18myco.html


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  • StillJill StillJill

    Good work on tracking those numbers B&B. Do you believe the numbers are dropping,…or is ‘reporting the cases’,..(numbers) dropping? My bad,…so very suspicious and upidy!


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  • Rakka Rakka

    I left Japan in March with a severe case of pneumonia that persisted until late summer. I have scar tissue on my lungs and still have difficulty breathing at times. If anything, these numbers are still underestimated.


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    • StillJill StillJill

      Thank you “Rakka”, your report is beyond reproach. You left Japan in March. WOW! What a bloody statement THAT is!!!

      I think our own “kintman” left Japan shortly thereafter. They are all doing well we’re told! :-)

      You will recover too Rakka. I have friends in HIGH places!

      So glad you wrote us, friend!

      @Bread and Butter–’Hiya’ back friend. Good answer, “No idea”–Love it!
      Thanks for the site,…I will check it now that you brought it to my attention!


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  • Jebus

    What if it is “only” 10,000 extra deaths from this? What if it is “only” 1000 extra deaths? Is this what it has come to in these times. Acceptable deaths? WTF?
    This is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form. When we, as humans, the keepers of our planet’s garden’s, are debating acceptable deaths of our fellow keepers, where do all of the other creatures stand in this equation?
    We have truly lowered ourselves to the level of “not fit to be the keepers anymore.”


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    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Jebus, so true. I just can’t cope with this “new normal” either. :-(


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    • aigeezer aigeezer

      The “no acceptable deaths” line of argument gets tricky if you remove it from the emotionally-charged realm of nuke deaths and apply it, say, to traffic accidents. The risk of traffic deaths could be reduced instantly to almost zero if nobody drove a vehicle (some vehicles might still cause havoc, even if driverless), yet society tolerates traffic risk. Simply getting out of bed carries some risk of increased mortality (really!) but I don’t think most people would argue against taking the risk. Great link here if this stuff interests you:

      http://understandinguncertainty.org/micromorts

      Consider this thought experiment – imagine that you could get the whole nuclear industry shut down overnight in exchange for a single life, say the life of your worst enemy. You could save thousands, perhaps millions of lives in exchange for one scumbag. Tempting? Remember also that the scumbag would eventually die anyway – you would only be adjusting the date a bit, perhaps by only a few minutes….

      Most people discover to their surprise that they have some level of tolerance for mortality risk for others if the proposition is phrased appropriately. There are “acceptable deaths” in society all the time, bizarre though the concept may seem.

      On the nuclear front, I believe that no deaths are justifiable – mainly because the benefits are absurdly small compared to the colossal chronic risks in the technology. You and I reach similar conclusions, but perhaps through different lines of thought.

      Here’s a quick glimpse into the risk comparison and tradeoff topic, stripped of emotion:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort

      Nuke shills try to persuade us that we “need” nukes – that it’s like the traffic risk or the getting out of bed risk – worth our while. It is not.

      SHUT DOWN THE NUKES – it’s the right thing to do.


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      • Jebus

        Individual free choice risks and lawfull recourse for the result of those risks can not be compared to forced, invisible, no recourse mass population risk in any way, shape, or form.


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        • aigeezer aigeezer

          I don’t get your point, Jebus, at least at a literal level. Any two things can be compared, even apples and oranges. How about: There are exactly two kinds of things in the world – those things that can be compared and those things that can not be compared – in which category should we put apples? ;-)

          I think your position is that you do not approve of “forced, invisible, no recourse mass population risk”. If so, I’m on your side. In practice though, “forced, invisible, no recourse mass population risk” is all around us and most of us accept it most of the time, without thought or question, which is one reason it is so hard to push back against nuke.

          Quick examples: countries go to war without consulting their citizens; cities set designated routes for hazardous material traffic without consulting their citizens; governments set “acceptable limits” of contaminants in food without consulting their citizens; governments approve genetic modification of food and also rule that citizens may not be told which foods are modified; governments spend themselves into bankruptcy without consulting their citizens, and of course, the biggie – governments empower the nuke industry without consulting their citizens.

          Thus, if your sticking point against nuke is the very real “forced, invisible, no recourse mass population risk”, you’d perhaps need to take a position on many other situations in modern life where that comes into play. My own main sticking point is “mainly because the benefits are absurdly small compared to the colossal chronic risks in the technology”. This lets me address the nuke monster separately from other issues involving “forced, invisible, no recourse mass population risk” – it helps me focus.

          Bottom line: I think the nuke industry is more vulnerable on its phony economics than its loathsome immorality.

          SHUT THEM ALL DOWN


          Report comment

  • pg

    20,000 deaths? Where? Which states?


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  • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

    I believe the numbers of “excess” deaths is far higher than 20,000. These deaths constitute conscious, intentional genocide. Please review this video on the Hanford Plutonium waste site in Washington State where the government is intentionally contaminating the Columbia river and its watershed. This is a report by someone in the nuclear sciences end of the government who is in charge of budgets for some aspects of nuclear power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcmboc-y-fY&feature=related, about 20 minutes


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Plutonium is the most toxic substance known to man, by far, and this is one of the main constituent contaminants in the plumes entering the Columbia River and its watershed.


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  • Tumrgrwer Tumrgrwer

    A note from forbes

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/01/11/garbage-in-anti-nuclear-propaganda-out-the-14000-death-fukushima-lie/

    Tuff to compete with all these lies. Keep it up, we need to counter these kinds…

    Let us be kind, one to another, for we are each of us together in our pain!


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Outbreaks vs where rain-outs happen… see a trend?


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  • Alex2245

    Thyroid cancer is on the rise and idiot mainstream doctors are pretending they dont know why
    http://theintelhub.com/2012/01/16/thyroid-cancer-on-the-rise-as-radiation-disasters-continue-to-mount/

    Keep up the great work!


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    • hbjon hbjon

      Doctors have made a fortune off the toxic waste they pump into patients veins. They sold people on the benefits of seeing your blood flow through your body. They radiate tissue masses in your body that have been a result of the bodies valiant efforts to return to optimum working order by compartmentalizing the nonself(diseased tissue) from the functioning organs. Government is not monitoring anything and is in downplay mode because they are bought and paid for by the AMA and big Pharma. Undertakers did very well in 1918 and 1919 from the historic flu pandemic. Doctors will suck up all the money people have on their way to the grave. Doesn’t that take away some of the innocence of the healthcare professionals? This is no game. The toxins are here. They will do what they do. Keep the hysterical women away from me. Keep the doctors away from me. I will be eating long expired cans of tuna to survive. What about you?


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  • StillJill StillJill

    I doubt hysterical women want anything to do with you either–so there!


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  • hbjon hbjon

    LOL. You burnt me a good one. What can I say? Are you saying your the spokeswoman for all the hysterical women on the internet? Believe me, I know hysterical women. The ones that sit around the table asking each other what they take for their anxiety and hysteria. Almost in competition who can pronounce the name of the pills with the best fluency. Very sad situation. Almost have to laugh but the sadness stops me. I understand why this needs to be covered up. Let’s go gentle into that good night. Whoopie says he is doing it without religion.


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  • StillJill StillJill

    No,…I am saying that I am the Spokeswoman for all the hysterical women on the planet.


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  • hbjon hbjon

    A few things I don’t like….Women on the battlefield, playing baseball, and around me when the crap hits the fan. Not because I dislike women in any way. But, the exact opposite.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BigeyQMTJv4

    look at Building reactor #6

    this is post Tsunami, but pre building one ‘Boom!’ on March 11, 2011
    Key thing to note? The enviromental disaster management stuff is ALREADY IN PLACE!? on the 11 th!?


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  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    hbjon most often while the men are out fighting the *fires, women are crowdsourcing & bringing people together to provide many forms of support. As time progresses women are learning that they have many more strengths than previously given credit for & are stepping up to assist where they can. I appreciate not wanting them near you becasue you care but accepting their help is beneficial to everyone.


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    • hbjon hbjon

      Someone needs to invent a lead/cotton alloy that can be spun into yarn. Get the women busy kniting some underweat for the firemen. I know that sounds a little politically incorrect. But it is an important job that needs to be done. In times like these, we as a society need to stop tip toeing around what needs to be done. Accusations of sexism and racism are nonsense and absurd when a job needs to be done and lives are on the line. We are all on this sinking ship and there are no life rafts.


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  • hbjon hbjon

    Whoopie is a she? Who’da thunk it. I just can’t come to grip with the fact there are women getting intimate with this catsasstrophy. If a hysterical woman were to have any interest in me, I would sit here down with a couple knitting needles and cnn news so she knows nothing about us going the way of the dinasaurs.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    And some of we dis-staffed types… run at the very front of things! I’m also a former USArmy SGT and 3x war vet. We are not the wilting flowers you men keep painting us as in your minds! :-P


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  • Hey for those who like soe of the Or-well stuff, I added recent comments and poems to a page here on my blog, and for Admin here remember to klik and visit adz, it helps a little, a little more than you think.

    http://nukepimp.blogspot.com/2012/01/orwelian-clarity.html


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