Published: February 6th, 2012 at 8:37 am ET
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Spent fuel pool temperature at Unit 6 (Blue Triangles) via Tepco:
- Feb. 3 at 00:00: 12.5°C
- Feb. 4 at 12:00: 21.5°C (Up 72%)
SFP of reactor 3 and reactor 5 are heated as well, via Fukushima Diary:
SOURCE: Fukushima Diary
SOURCE: Fukushima Diary
See also:
- FNN: Temperature rising at Reactor No. 2 pressure vessel (VIDEO) -- Fukushima worker more worried about No. 2 than No. 4
- Reactor No. 2 temperature continues rising -- Up 20°C in last 4 days -- Up 3°C in last 5 hours
- Asahi: Tepco checking if "chain of nuclear fission has occurred again in melted fuel" at Reactor No. 2 after temperature rises sharply
Published: February 6th, 2012 at 8:37 am ET
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Hey Admin, attention, your text says “unit 6″??
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Thank you
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Tepco’s today’s press release re. unit 3:
“Regarding the water leakage from Filtrate water supply valve of Unit 3 spent fuel pool cooling system occurred on January 29,we removed the valve and completed installation of blanking plate, In addition, we are temporally suspending the secondary cooling tower in order to prevent overcooling of spent fuel pool alternative cooling facility.
Because the pool temperature began to increase, at 9:55 am on February 6, we initiated the secondary cooling tower.”
It’s the first time I hear about a fear of overcooling the SFPs!!
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Total Radiation Released Into Ocean, Air, Groundwater, Storage Tanks, etc http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/3069802
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Good stuff AGR… Can you lighten the green background about 20 shades? It is really hard reading on phones.
Content is excellent… I take back some of my summer criticism of Woods Holes. I am happy they have described the contamination of the sea.
With SFPs leaking like sieves water contamination at Daiichi must be flowing to the ocean fairly unimpeded and there is nothing to stop it. They had time to build a barrier last summer, but they didn’t want to spend the manpower and effort because it would have been the final financial nail in the coffin of new and old reactors worldwide.
The lack of effort effect is still the same…no sane banker or government should consider building any new plants and should decommission all their old ones. But we know sanity has never been a quality for most governments
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Given that #3 spent fuel pool fell two months ago and has been on fire since – I’d say any information and data regarding it can be considered lies…
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If any of the fuel pools fell apart there would be no workers on site and the only possible activity you would possibly see is helicopters dropping sand like Chernobyl. Any constant fire in any of the fuel pools would release airborne particulate matter that would with the right wind pattern render Tokyo and major parts of Japan uninhabitable.
When I did radiation safety work in these plants there was always the danger of extremely hot particles and fuel fragments, often called “fuel fleas”. These were called this because their size was pinhead size or less, or about flea size. The dose rates of these particles that I measured were up to 100 milliseverts. Others found higher doses. These particles would become airborne easily in a fuel fire or collapse of any pool.
The situation of these plants is certainly critical and dangerous, but the theories that fuel pellets have been ejected from the pools, or that they are on fire, or have fell to the ground are completely impossible given the conditions around the plant and in Japan. When any of these things happen, and they still certainly could, everyone will know, and neither Tepco or any government will be able to hide it.
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I thought this too, however SFP# collapsed on or around December 5th and is clearly down now. , and has been on fire since.
The entire south wall, that contained the fuel pool is gone and at times you’ve been able to see right into where it once was. A river of black comes out of the wreckage.
And they haven’t been working around it very much, but they have been working in other parts of the facility.
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Sorry SFP3
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Can you give more details, please. Practical experience is 10 fold worth theoretical estimations. Thanks, in sdvance.
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Earlier it is possible a Zirconium metal explosion happened when the fuel pool was mysteriously found empty which i postulate resulted in scattering the pellets so that they could not heat up together resulting in further criticality or sub-criticality. This Zirconium metal explosion if it occurred the first time may have been a good thing.
Later i suspected (* months ago) a scenario where sea water would form a scale and insulate rods enough to sustain an escalation of the process of deposition due to impure water and debris in the water until the coating which is possibly not very even begins to exacerbate the cooling problem.
I think Chrisk9 you fail to realize that the effect may not be from the “fuel pools falling apart”, all that is required is a single ‘hot spot’ and a Zirconium metal fire to begin from one such spot to spread like a cancer
Once started, even under water, Zirconium burns explosively by grabbing O2 from water and releasing hydrogen. A single hot spot can also attract impurities to the cladding of the fuel rods spent or not spent and this leads to increased heating which leads to faster deposition of impurities leading to exponential temperature rise.
My belief is this is the cause of increasing temperatures.
It doesn’t matter how much water is used in these cases as the hot spot repels water by forming steam and the said reaction escalates.
This has nothing to do with fuel fleas at this time.
The margin for error is very fine on the same basis that a radiator hose leak leads to exponential heating of a motor car engine when there is no pressure to prevent boiling of the water in the engine.
A thermal runaway occurs.
The mere fact that they (TEPCO workers.) are reporting the term “—>Injection< —” means (Tells me.) they are operating a cooling system which has leaks and is under normal atmospheric pressure….
No margin 4 error.
This looks very bad in my unprofessional layman opinion.
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The SFP 3 was never “mysteriously found to be empty”.
To the contrary it was amazingly found to be full after the blast on March 14.
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Chrisk9 So your reference to fuel fleas and dose rates is off this particular planet, With or without experience, you have not in this “experience” had to estimate a fuel pool fire. Or other like this. I can see by the lack of specific detail about the properties of Zirconium for instance. You need to back up claims with reasoning
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A valiant attempt… unfortunately the bias on here is fantastic. People seem to want to believe in catastrophe – as if reality wasn’t bad enough already.
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Zaadik….you mean the people who want to believe in Climate change from CO2, HAARP, Chemtrails, and massively powerful violins
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Preferably with links ……Here is one about Zirc. Which you omit for whatever reason.
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/15/why-fukushimas-spent-fuel-rods-will-continue-to-catch-fire/
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The shut down reactor is essentially a fuel pool in miniature. Only difference is the fuel is hotter. So when talking about spent fuel pools and reactors we can split hairs about some fuel rod assemblies being hotter than others.
One thing remains, these assemblies need to be in excellent condition to be stable. From what i can gather……Hot or Cold.
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Of course, the above is not entirely my own invention. The Zirconium metal explosions following the rise in temperature of a fuel rod assembly was something that has already been postulated.
On many occasions from many sources.
I merely see the logic of scale and debris and ongoing deteriorating condition of the rods and the assemblies as being the cause of the more recent problem.
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Heads up FRIENDS,…the wagons are being surrounded again!
Let’s have some FUN, shall we????
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Hmmmm….Ok….i should get a cuppa while that’s all happening.
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#3′s pool contents went up at the start… for the most part. It had P-239 97% pure semi-depleated rods made from USSR bomb-disposal project… sitting in it and also inside the core, and is what caused the criticality ‘EVENT’ that reached 5 miles high at super-sonic-speeds. The following day, one min. less than 24 hrs. later #3′s core blew-out as well. #4′s pool, also has 40 of these type rods sitting in it. They were shown in vid-survey of that pool, and are the ones that don’t have handles on top like U-238′s and MOX ones have. The remaining rod-bits in #3 pool remains… melted out months ago, and is quite colorful now and again… on south-side of the building in the JNN cam. What is causing the glowing blob in #4 pool is quite obvious.
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Pattie would you stop spreading this BS.
If you are any kind of explosion expert – and you apparently are not – then you know that 5 mile high explosion did not come from the spent fuel pool
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It did come from the pool, that’s been proven. That’s what broke the ‘CAP’ of the core, and cracked the ‘PLUG’ on it… it then started pissing-out steam from the core… THAT exploded the following day, killing 6 workers. Add the 11 injured the first day… no word on how bad they got hurt, or even if they then lived.
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show me the proof. There is none.
I’ve seen none. Furthermore it is a physical impossibility that the explosion we saw on March 14th at 11:01 am came from the fuel pool.
If it came from the pool, the blast vectors would have been totally different.
Some of the hydrogen might have initiated it, but that explosion came from deep in the containment. Any legitmate explosives expert knows this.
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These were the six workers closest to Unit 3 when it blew:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20110607a5.html
They may be dead now, but they didn’t die that day. I would be interested to see the link to the website mentioning 6 deaths at the time of the supersonic Unit 3 explosion.
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By April 5, #3 SFP was already gone. There was MOX in the SFP and in the reactor. Just a small amount of MOX created the explosions in Unit #3. Between the explosions on Mar. 14 and again on Mar. 15 both the SFP and the reactor of #3 had had nuclear explosions.
http://blog.bottomlessinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/fukushima_reactor_3_total_destruction.jpg
This photo from:
Fukushima Unit 3 Al Fresco, journalists don’t see it, Officials downplay it
April 5th, 2011
“The image below speaks for itself: the extent of damages at Unit 3 (left of the photo) are so severe that the spent fuel pools don’t exist anymore, and worse: the reactor must be completely exposed.”
http://blog.bottomlessinc.com/
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http://blog.bottomlessinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/fukushima_reactor_3_total_destruction.jpg
MOX is terrible under EVERY circumstance. MOX is the culprit for reactor #3. And there was also MOX in SFP of Unit #4.
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Those photos show the pool at #3 still intact. And prove it could be intact.
Nevermind the diagram is the incorrect one – it still proves the point.
The photo on the right shows the top two levels 1 and 2 in the diagram at the left, blown off, but everything below that on the right (south) end of the building is still intact.
That’s where the SFP is, and it is still holding water in those pictures – almost to it’s full level.
I’m not sure why the diagrammer on the right left off the ground level – other than to try to misrepresent that something is missing that is not – notice his ladder starts above the drive in “garage” – which is the lowest level.
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James,….. Zirconium metal explosion seems to have also been involved. Blindingly fast…Like a instant flash cube which did once contain Zirconium wool to produce an explosively fast flash for instant flash cubes……In this case the additional heat to detonate this process came from the fuel rods. It seems the explosion was a composite Zirconium metal explosion and a meltdown, with some criticality thrown in for good measure..
Some background on Zirc
http://www.angstromsciences.com/products/pvd-materials/pvd-materials-list/z/msds/Zirconium-MSDS.pdf
The way i see it, all the elements for this type of explosion are there. It is a nuclear industry well hidden secret as nobody likes to admit the explosive qualities of Zirconium.
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Yes, likely – but it happened in the containment – not in the fuel pool.
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So i guess that possibility is settled James 2
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No, not hardly – the deceiving pictures anne posts are “settled” – no way
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Some of the photos and material in these links is truly eye opening
…thanks PattieB
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they’re not eye opening unless your eyes have been shut for 11 months.
Nothing new in what anne posts. We did that analysis back about March 20th last year.
The only thing eye opening is that the illustrations on the pics she links to are wrong.
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no humans even walk on the west sides of these buildings anymore. They were using #3 to breed P-239 back up to bomb-spec… #4 was being preped to do the same. They were crazy to do such in a LW reactor… but, there you have it, cam video doesn’t change the facts of what they were up to there. Those rods belong in a liquid sodium cooled core.
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Crikey..Thanks PattieB for rewiring my neurons on that. The cuppa has also helped.
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Now you can understand why the freak-out of #4′s pool. It’s had multitudes of fire from its core… but it was just partial-load inside, and never closed-up.
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Our OTHER issue.. the bright light they installed… hides the EXOTIC GAS PLANT fire… it sits across from #3 and is connected to the reactors via underground pipes. Then there’s the smaller light in Tepco-sham-cam… thermographics done in over-flights show that the casks in lower-levels of shared pool have done a burn-out as well… giving us a white ‘ghost-like’ glob to the right of the big torch-light in tepco sham-cam.
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Exotic gas plant fire? I’m so relieved that at least we found unit 6 back, aren’t we? lol
I’d love to to see those over-flight thermographics though you’re referring to – sounds interesting! Care to pass a link or picture?
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These issues are our ‘BETA EMMITERS’ and have been where my attentions are centered… as they are the fast-death items hitting our plates.
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Any other issues with #1,2… yes, if we didn’t have such OTHER really LARGE issues, they would be bad… and would cause a royal freaking-out if happened here at home in the USA.
BUT!… all things considered… it’s just more Tepco mis-direction. To keep eyes and minds of the larger problems… and is why the put scotched tape across the lens, after lowering it to hide the BAD STUFF!
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main view thread, and go back one… it’s started new page… I have listed links to site / info.
here’s the main site… is lot of info on multi-pages:
http://yoshi-tex.com/Fuku1/index.htm
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Gracias PattieB!
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the guy works there… or did work there, and has loads of tepco-only-privy information, and photos of the mess.
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For anyone interested in these photos, an excellent application/software is “Wget”
It saves on clicking on individual links and the downloaded website or images or PDF’s can be viewed later at leisure.
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Here’s some interesting factoids… http://hamanora.blog.ocn.ne.jp/kaiin02/2011/06/post_8986.html
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Despite the Nuke industry’s steadfast disinformation program.
Here are the facts: around #3. First, on March 13th 2011 they worked all day to try and cool the core.
RPV pressure levels reached more than 1000 PSI, and then all the sudden started to drop. Tepco claimed victory in cooling it – however they vented the pressure and indications were that a core melt was occuring.
The building blew on March 14th at 11:01 am. Blowing much of the north side of the building down – blowing the entire roof off – leaving only the roof skeleton and the large crane left above where the reactor floor was.
Amazingly the SFP3 was intact, although full of roof and other debris. It got hot, but never lost water. In June/July, they desalinated the water and installed a new cooling system. Pictures of this cooling system installation exist.
In December 2011, the south wall of R3 collapsed, releasing the water and the rods caught fire, They’ve now been burning for two months.
That’s the truth, despite what the shills want you to think.
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More damming truthes are kept here…”
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/earthquake/houkoku/houkoku.html
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James2… I’m giving links to the site with both ‘actual data’ and scrubbed for public RIGHT ON IT! WAKE UP!
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Wake up to what?
You are trying to tell people something that is impossible to be true.
I’m not going to let you.
Tell the truth and I will leave you alone
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James2: About all I may do for you beyond the info at this point… is buy you some finger paints.
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You owe me and everyone else here nothing but the truth. Not spin.
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Crikey James2 …what are you on about
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The truth
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James2
Here’s a few links for your edification. If you refuse to budge from a flawed accounting of events, and spout such that things that defy both physics, facts, and actual mimiographed / copy of data from the plant control room… then don’t point any more comments at me.
Large site with many data links…
http://hamanora.blog.ocn.ne.jp/kaiin02/2011/06/post_8986.html
http://yoshi-tex.com/Fuku1/Fuku1GE1.htm
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Hi PattieB,
You must be new to the site.
James is the haver of all knowledge on SFP3. Its not on his hard drive because he does not have one (must ensure shills dont hack his system I presume) He has no links. All the having of knowledge is in his head. And its irrefutable fact. No evidence ot the contrary will change that. No one else gets it, but him of course.
I have done hte SFP3 dance with James2, its a futile effort.
After he demands proof and you provide it he will then go on to his observatoins to the contrary, which are steadfast facts by the way. Then you will find yourself re reading your own posts, to be sure you have not lost your mind.
Dont worry about it though. Some people apparently have months and months of time to sit staring at JNN all day and translating for the rest of us who dont have eyes to see or the brainpower to understand.
Cheers
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I see lol…thanks Kevin!!….I like to listen to every theory and am particularly interested in the type of reasoning used, and of course the data. Sometimes i can even arrive at a completely new theory, but usually only if both parties provide their own data without being personal.
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yup every one of the shills has tried and tried and tried again to argue this point with me.
And every time they lose give up and go back to their job of killing japanese children.
As Kevin knows, I won’t let you try to convince others on this site that the core of #3 didn’t blow on March 14th. It did.
And I won’t let you try to convince others that the SFP3 blew on March 14th – it didn’t.
beyond that, I’m open to reason.
Pattie every site you post to is in Japanese – i can’t read them, however I don’t need to read a bunch of propaganda –
it’s really simple. Look at the explosion of #3. Look at the blast vectors. Understand how blasts work., look at the after the blast destruction = you know what happened. That’s how simple it is.
No other analysis or propaganda needed
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Were not all shills James, and to follow your logic, there is every liklihood you are.
It is clear that you have a theory, and are unable or unwilling to otherwise consider information contrary to that theory. Fortunately for you there is enough disinformation floating about that you can cling to your theory without entirely sacrificing your credibility. And for that you should be thanking these “shills” you consistently decry.
That said, it is an odd behaviour to cling to this with such tenacity, as clearly this is the single most pivotal issue with respect to long last, far reaching impacts and your analysis supports a minimization of the potential. This is what has always disturbed me and to do so with little or no supporting documentation, links or opinion, besides that of the official story, also troubles me deeply.
Carry on.
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Sorry to trouble you deeply Kevin, but guess what, I think we’re all troubled deeply by this.
Obviously I know that this issue is the pivotal issue – that’s why I will not allow anyone to circumvent the truth on it.
if anyone presents information that proves me wrong – I’m all ears, and will admit I’m wrong. However as I’ve said to you time and again – it’s very simple and the proof of what I’m saying is indisputable.
I suppose one bit of proof of me being wrong is if they were to pull the crane off that pile of rubble and find the concrete cap, containment cap and RPV all intact underneath it. Other than that, there’s not much you could provide.
However when you claim me wrong without proof – well then you know what you get.
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the thing is.. what you pull out… is a mostly clean and workable P-239 rod, most of the P-241 gone… and you make power while your at it. Just so-long as nothing goes wrong… NOTHING!… it works. And other than that… why keep 40 such rods in the pool of building #4? What on earth else can set-off a nucular blast without a gun-type smashing of crit-mass together at some really high-speed, or an implosion? It’s NOT a simplistic thing to make happen… even if your TRYING TO do just that! The PU-239/241 is about the only stuff that one has to be carefull of how much you gather into a lump. It can go crit just from core depth heating in a large enough lump.
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What does P-239 stand for? Is P an element? Your links have nothing in them that talk about a PU-239/241 fuel rod. We can all use various translation software to translate the Japanese. How about a simple quotation? You can’t come up with a simple quotation because such a quotation does not exist. One person who responded to one of your posts said that you are making us look like idiots.
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PU239 is used as a “portion” of the fuel in a nuclear power plant. It is never the only fuel used. and PU241 has no commercial use.
Physical, Nuclear, and Chemical, Properties of Plutonium
“Plutonium-239 is one of the two fissile materials used for the production of nuclear weapons and in some nuclear reactors as a source of energy. The other fissile material is uranium-235. Plutonium-239 is virtually nonexistent in nature. It is made by bombarding uranium-238 with neutrons in a nuclear reactor. Uranium-238 is present in quantity in most reactor fuel; hence plutonium-239 is continuously made in these reactors. Since plutonium-239 can itself be split by neutrons to release energy, plutonium-239 provides a portion of the energy generation in a nuclear reactor….
“Only two plutonium isotopes have commercial and military applications. Plutonium-238, which is made in nuclear reactors from neptunium-237, is used to make compact thermoelectric generators; plutonium-239 is used for nuclear weapons and for energy; plutonium-241, although fissile, (see next paragraph) is impractical both as a nuclear fuel and a material for nuclear warheads. Some of the reasons are far higher cost , shorter half-life, and higher radioactivity than plutonium-239. Isotopes of plutonium with mass numbers 240 through 242 are made along with plutonium-239 in nuclear reactors, but they are contaminants with no commercial applications….”
http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/pu-props.html
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Anne..It is good to see a debate using real links and reasoning. I don’t think anyone is being made to look like silly etc.
Looks like healthy confrontation of data with lots of information i can now follow up to me.
Some do not provide a background of source material like you have done to say “yes” or “no”, and that more or less makes their view of no value whatsoever for anyone onlooking.
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Anne, this is splitting hairs. Clearly, these are abbreviations used in a manner as in conversation..I have teenagers who use abbreviations all the time. I think PB (PattieB) is using a conversational manner. Not the manner of a Patent attorney.
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There were not 40 such rods in SFP #4. There are not 40 such rods anywhere in the world.
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Pattie, I do not know if you’re passing misinformation on purpose or are simply not explaining yourself very well, but your scenario is simply not credible.
First, the plutonium in fusion WMDs (“H-Bomb”) does not significantly decay in-place, as its half-life is 24,200 years. It’s been mere decades – not even a single century – since all of the nuclear WMDs on the planet were constructed, not enough time for the cores to have decayed enough to even measure.
- what DOES degrade is the tritium (hydrogen, as in “H-Bomb”) that the surrounding plutonium compresses when it explodes, thereby fusing it into helium. Thus the arsenal has to be ‘refreshed’ occasionally with new tritium. This is basic physics, not difficult at all to grok. The half-life of tritium is a mere 12.32 years. Weapons constructed in December of 1999 would have only half the original concentration of tritium left in the hollow of those plutonium spheres. To ensure efficacy of the weapon, that tritium would have to be replaced. The hollow plutonium sphere is fine, needs no refreshing…
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…Second, a fuel rod composed entirely of the plutonium from nuclear WMDs (“H-Bombs”) – if there were such things, and I can find no evidence that there are – would NOT be “enriched” inside a reactor. Instead, plutonium-239 fissions would produce ‘the usual’ filthy high-level nuclear waste products that are produced in regular UOX/MOX fuel rods by the process of fission. We call them “fission products” for a reason.
Thus any plutonium remaining in any kind of reactor fuel rod would still have to be chemically dissolved to be recoverable by means of “reprocessing.” Which is how the military has accumulated ALL the plutonium-239 (and its percentages of 241 and whatever other contaminating isotopes may be present) ever used in ANY of our nuclear WMDs. Burning plutonium in commercial reactor fuel rods does NOT in any way “purify” that plutonium. Using plutonium-239 as fission fuel just produces fission daughter products that go into the waste pile along with all the other nasty nuclear waste.
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Not trying to bash anyone, but, I just don’t see where PattieB gets her knowledge of this without links to her data.
Her resume sure doesn’t support her “knowledge”
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/pattie-brassard/14/114/199
????
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She also has had security clearance in the past….
????
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So have a lot of us.
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Crikey, Jebus, all this attention on PattieB, particularly yours, more or less tells me she is a super expert.
Your kind of personally aimed critique is a sign to me that PattieB’s intellect is of a vastly higher order.
Do i hear gnashing of teeth??
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Oh calm down, yer doin the same right now.
At least I left my inquiry open to individual objectivity.
You are just bashing. I did not put her down in any way.
Her military backround might suggest she has some knowledge or contacts.
You, my friend are just supporting the unknown.
The truth will set you free…
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Hi Jebus, I sort of gave up on Pattie when she insisted over days that unit 6 had exploded and was only photoshopped back in all photos and videos. Hello?
And “military background” has never been an indicator of advanced intelligence. At least where I live.
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Greets B&B,
Ya, just trying to get her to either provide links to her data or disclose how her intellect is so vastly superior to mine.
Wenewsers, long timers, have been here long enough to see spades…
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Personally, i think there were some great links. I suspect it will pay to go over the data again and again. Being personal is very poor and usually disqualifies the critique.
For anyone interested in downloading data from websites if they do not have time to click on each link to get photos and PDF’s etc, This is an excellent tool.
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2009/09/the-ultimate-wget-download-guide-with-15-awesome-examples/
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4602153/how-do-i-use-wget-to-download-all-images-into-a-single-folder
https://seogadget.co.uk/download-your-website-with-wget/
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Critcism is the test of truth.
Criticism seperates fact from fiction.
With truth criticism has no mass.
Without criticism, fiction is accepted as fact.
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I’m learning a huge amount from PattiB’s links. It takes time to plug the text into Google translate, but there is a wealth of information we have not been getting and the pictures are amazing. Interesting and disgusting how they have been editing out pictures that would have helped understand what is going on.
I’ve posted much information on the webcam discussion and the discussion thread.
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gotta love an enigma!! cool thread!
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And WENEWSERS are an Enigma – The Eyes of Truth
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This one Might apply here Jebus.
“six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant’s body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.
A king explains to them:
“All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently is because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all the features you mentioned.”[1]
This resolves the conflict, and is used to illustrate the principle of living in harmony with people who have different belief systems, and that truth can be stated in different ways (in Jainist beliefs often said to be seven versions). This is known as the Syadvada, Anekantvada, or the theory of Manifold Predictions.[1]
[edit]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant
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I’ve heard it already, long ago.
The real truth of the matter is that no one, not PattieB, not James2, nor you or I really knows who, what, when, where, or why. What really happened to cause #3 to go up like that? We probably will never know.
The fact is that it happened, and it will happen again, if lessons are not learned. The nuke industries two favorite phrases have been exposed as bullshit.
Containment will never be breached and no one has died as a consequence of nuclear power accidents is rubbish, for all the world to see.
Shut them all down before it happens again.
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Amen to that.
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@Jebus and @BreadAndButter–could not say it better. Amen
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Jebus: Gotta agree with every word you say there.
I would only disagree that it might one day be fairly well established.
For that to happen we also need some pretty objective science and maybe some unified theory/science that actually works/is objective on how matter and the universe is held together.
A non privatized scientific community would help towards this.
Until then, we should not be taking any vain-glorious chances with Nukes under any circumstances…
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You are correct Jebus – we don’t know what caused it exactly.
I haven’t claimed it was a nuclear reaction. I’m more of a mind that it was hydrogen or steam in the primary containment.
However we do know what the result was, and that result was uncontrollable and indisputable.
Plus we know it was so bad that the truth has been actively – very actively covered up for almost a year. That alone is enough to convince me that the nukes have to go…
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Lets talk about Zirconium for a change in subject.
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In the end, everyone here shows their true colors.
Despite a tremendous effort, as soon as the conversation turns to the old tired lies, then the true colors start to show. And then when the old patterns of support and encouragement from others come out – the reveal is completed.
sorry folks, you’re busted – again…
Perhaps, given the seriousness of this thing, given you obviously have a bit of a clue now – you should try helping with the solution, rather than being the problem…
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TEPCO webcam shows more “steam/emissions/gases” around Reactor 3 and 4. Frankly, casks or fuel rods its all nasty stuff. With the tempature going up on Reactor 2, boric acid dumped earlier in the day today, and the steaming of most of the damaged reactors there is enuf to be concerned with. The poor Pacific ocean.
Second thought..has anyone considered moving people in the areas within 80KM of this mess? Like evacuation really this time? Can they be better protected if the reactor becomes critical? Have not seen any comment or activity mentioned. But since not in Japan or plugged into the local information/plans–am hoping plans are in place so people can protect themselves.
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Daini –Fukushima II. Does anyone have webcam, recent photos or satellite images of the facility? Report from TEPCO mentions 7 Sv/hr around Reactor 6. Just a tiny comment in one bullet. The translation has got to be wrong..correct? The other comment, three holes in the roof of the reactors..to let hydrogen out catches my attention as well..HUH? In cold shutdown??
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Well remember a few weeks ago the cam pulling out and you could see a giant ball of flame at the south end of #6
I think it’s fuel pool burned also.
They’ve lost control completely – and can’t even fake it anymore.
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I originally jumped on this thread in my first comment to talk about the relentlessness of scale and deposition building up on the remaining nuke fuel, by way of an insulating scale/complex compounds forming an insulating barrier preventing adequate cooling. Then the additional heat begins to fracture the scale and hydrogen is released slowly at first.
Heavy emphasis on the word “relentless”.
Why isn’t a 300 kilometer evacuation zone being declared?
Why doesn’t the government provide could Beta particle detectors and so on.
If hydrogen is being produced, then the Zirconium is implied. Prior to complete meltdown it is vaporized and forms and explosive Zirconium mist in a suspension of steam, obtains oxygen from water releasing vast hydrogen…However, it is the reaction with the Zirconium and not the Hydrogen which is the most explosive part of the detonation/explosion/violent reaction.I believe this (Zirconium) is what causes the violent explosions/detonations and not hydrogen at all.
I could be wrong, but there seems to be enough evidence to support this.
This kind of reaction can lift the entire contents of a fuel pool out, but it is hypothesis that seems likely, so i cannot do much further justice to this debate, but i can provide plenty of links.
Some background on Zirc
http://www.angstromsciences.com/products/pvd-materials/pvd-materials-list/z/msds/Zirconium-MSDS.pdf
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/8183
So just before complete meltdown, the Zirconium is vaporized so that is how the explosions occur. Plenty of steam to oxidize the Zirconium reaction.
The water becomes the oxidizer and hydrogen is released.
At first slowly because the zirconium is still in solid form and surface area is not vastly increased as would occur during meltdown.
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I read on a Japanese site that there was a methane explosion in Unit #4.
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And I saw a diagram that showed an underground cavity under the reactor that reached 200 meters (656 ft.)underground.
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http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fhamanora.blog.ocn.ne.jp%2Fkaiin02%2F2011%2F06%2Fpost_8986.html
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This is the citation:
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fhamanora.blog.ocn.ne.jp%2Fkaiin02%2F2011%2F06%2Fpost_8986.html
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There were also petroleum solvents stored in #4, hydrocarbons had a hand in the explosion too.
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My own research about the very real reaction of Zirconium and Cesium is yet another can of worms.
“Reactivity Profile” in this documentation.
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/8183
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the origin of what there doing came from this…
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Integral_Fast_Reactor
The goals of the IFR project were to increase the efficiency of uranium usage by breeding plutonium and eliminating the need for transuranic isotopes ever to leave the site. The reactor was an unmoderated design running on fast neutrons, designed to allow any transuranic isotope to be consumed (and in some cases used as fuel).
Compared to current light-water reactors with a once-through fuel cycle that induces fission (and derives energy) from less than 1% of the uranium found in nature, a breeder reactor like the IFR has a very efficient (99.5% of uranium undergoes fission) fuel cycle. The basic scheme used electrolytic separation to remove transuranics and actinides from the wastes and concentrate them. These concentrated fuels were then reformed, on site, into new fuel elements.
The available fuel metals were never separated from the plutonium, and therefore there was no direct way to use the fuel metals in nuclear weapons. Also, plutonium never had to leave the site, and thus was far less open to unauthorized diversion.
Another important benefit of removing the long half-lifeHalf-lifeHalf-life is the period of time it takes for a substance undergoing decay to decrease by half. The name was originally used to describe a characteristic of unstable atoms , but it may apply to any quantity which follows a set-rate decay….
transuranics from the waste cycle is that the remaining waste becomes a much shorter-term hazard. After the actinideActinideThe actinide or actinoid series encompasses the 15 chemical elements with atomic numbers from 89 to 103, actinium to lawrencium. The actinide series derives its name from the group 3 element actinium; although actinoid means “actinium-like” and therefore should exclude actinium, it is usually…
s (reprocessed uraniumReprocessed uraniumReprocessed uranium is the uranium recovered from nuclear…
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Thanks, and thanks again for your work here BobbyB
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The thing is…?
1; they removed 1/5 th of the rods from the reactor acording to the core running-sheets.
2; they barely even running it with control rods 1/3 rd the way out… in a pyrimidal step-config.
3; and yet they were running that pile at 103-104% of max capasity!
HOW!? Putting the type of rods I’ve explained… is the only way you could do so, being short over 120 fuel rod bundles in the core.
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Pu-239 is normally created in nuclear reactors by transmutation of individual atoms of one of the isotopes of uranium present in the fuel rods. Occasionally, when an atom of U-238 is exposed to neutron radiation, its nucleus will capture a neutron, changing it to U-239. This happens more easily with lower Kinetic Energy (as U-238 fission activation is 6.6MeV). The U-239 then rapidly undergoes two beta decays. After the 238U absorbs a neutron to become 239U it then emits an electron and an anti-neutrino () by β− decay to become Neptunium-239 (239Np) and then emits another electron and anti-neutrino by a second β− decay to become 239Pu:
Fission activity is relatively rare, so even after significant exposure, the Pu-239 is still mixed with a great deal of U-238 (and possibly other isotopes of uranium), oxygen, other components of the original material, and fission products. Only if the fuel has been exposed for a few days in the reactor, can the Pu-239 be chemically separated from the rest of the material to yield high-purity Pu-239 metal.
Pu-239 has a higher probability for fission than U-235 and a larger number of neutrons produced per fission event, so it has a smaller critical mass. Pure Pu-239 also has a reasonably low rate of neutron emission due to spontaneous fission (10 fission/s-kg), making it feasible to assemble a mass that is highly supercritical before a detonation chain reaction begins.
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I would give you the link again to the pic of such rods… but it has been removed.
I have a copy of it, but it’s in a frigging locked PDF file… their favorit way to stop spreading of info.
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nuclear reactor that is used to produce plutonium for weapons therefore generally has a means for exposing U-238 to neutron radiation and for frequently replacing the irradiated U-238 with new U-238. A reactor running on unenriched or moderately enriched uranium contains a great deal of U-238. However, most commercial nuclear power reactor designs require the entire reactor to shut down, often for weeks, in order to change the fuel elements. They therefore produce plutonium in a mix of isotopes that is not well-suited to weapon construction. Such a reactor could have machinery added that would permit U-238 slugs to be placed near the core and changed frequently, or it could be shut down frequently, so proliferation is a concern; for this reason, the International Atomic Energy Agency inspects licensed reactors often. A few commercial power reactor designs, such as the reaktor bolshoy moshchnosti kanalniy (RBMK) and pressurized heavy water reactor (PHWR), do permit refueling without shutdowns, and they may pose a proliferation risk. (In fact, the RBMK was built by the Soviet Union during the cold war, so despite their ostensibly peaceful purpose, it is likely that plutonium production was a design criterion.) By contrast, the Canadian CANDU heavy-water moderated natural-uranium fueled reactor can also be refueled while operating, but it normally consumes most of the Pu-239 it produces in situ; thus, it is not only inherently less proliferative than most reactors, but can even be operated as an “actinide incinerator.”[3] The American IFR (Integral Fast Reactor) can also be operated in an “incineration mode,” having some advantages in not building up the Pu-242 isotope or the long-lived actinides, either of which cannot be easily burned except in a fast reactor. Also IFR fuel has a high proportion of burnable isotopes, while in CANDU an inert material is needed to dilute the fuel; this means the IFR can burn a higher fraction of its fuel before needing…
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here’s the moderation segments they found… it’s not a pic, but the original pat.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3145150.pdf
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and here… for the rod… including Japan Pat. #s
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4591479.pdf
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Wow Pattie. I’ve learned so much in the past 12 hours. Thank you.
A while back, someone on this site linked to a VeteransToday website article about the true goings on at Fukushima regarding stolen old us warheads, and Israel, and double-crosses and international intrigue, etc. It was such a crazy story that there had to be truth to it. Your explanations of the inner-workings of #4 Reactor are enlightening. Truly a weapons factory acting like a power plant.
You are amazing.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/10/30/fukushima-sabotage-japanese-journalist-accuses-israel/
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I agree Room101. This news is not exactly her own invention. I have heard of this before and it makes a lot of sense.
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this is a PWR type:
http://www.nucleartourist.com/systems/pwrfuel1.htm
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Thanks PattieB. I am going to check those links.
Here is the links that specifically mentions explosive reaction of Cesium and Zirconium. Was just double checking my links earlier and omitted it by accident in a few posts.
In the “Reactivity Profile” section of the documentation.
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/8183
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