Published: April 13th, 2012 at 5:38 am ET
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Summary of temperature rise at Reactor No. 4′s spent fuel pool since Thursday morning:
- Apr. 12 @ 3a = 28°C (Source)
- Apr. 12 @ 8p -to- Apr. 13 @ 3a = 49.9°C, stable (Source)
- Apr. 13 @ 10a = 55°C (Source)
Tepco Press Conference (7 min., Japanese only)
Published: April 13th, 2012 at 5:38 am ET
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sending...
We all know what this means!
Wonder if all them quakes are causeing problems ?
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Wonder how many of us are staying up all night — waiting for the inevitable "other shoe to drop.—"?
Nice sharing the evening, er uh, early morning with you xdoc!
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Good day to all, yes we can never be sure how many evening, mornings we have until that other shoe drops !They are ganging by their fingernails and we know the outcome !
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ganging = hanging
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Isn't 'ganging' also 'dangling'?
I'm teasing you Doc! (It's a form of endearment!):-)
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morning dharma and fox. Though expected, this is bad news. Is there any word yet on an international effort? Or, are they simply going to let the planet end-up being covered in a nuclear pall? So, other than propping it up with chop-sticks, is anyone doing anything about SFP4?!
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Morning, Afraid it's one of the,…
"All the Kings horses and all the Kings men couldn't !"
Looks as if as we spoke, three more have happened !
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I'm not one for expletives, but if this goes down, I hope we have time to hang these fuckers for what they've done! I can forgive them for being snookered into the bogus promise of nuclear power; after all, it was the 'promise' of the future. But to have sat on their hands and diddled after 311 is unforgivable! They should have put out the call worldwide!
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AFTERSHOCK,
Agree, "perhaps they were told not to !!!"
Unwanted attention to the fate of the world and the economy, them up top like to arrange things you know !
Control or the feeling of control when things are out of control !
Controlled descent !
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I'm still on my first coffee. You're obviously right. They were told to keep it quiet and let it ride; don't draw unwanted attention. We're so screwed; were screwed from day one…
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Waiting for my second cup to kick in, … see my misspells ! LOL
: D
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I'm like super depressed. I've been hinting to people over the last year that we're in serious trouble. Now with this latest news, I don't know if I should even bother.
On another angle. If SFP4 collapses, I'm projecting that there won't be an explosion but that it'll start burning. Think Gundersen was saying on a talk show interview that they'll be gamma ray glow that bounces back down from the atmosphere, preventing any living thing from getting close to the source. Sounded horrifying…
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AFTERSHOCK,
Chin up, make today very important, that is all we can do each day we are here !
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Native Americans ..have this saying..
"It's a good day to die."
Translation: When one is doing what one should be doing… facing the Creator at any moment… no prob.
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thanks fox and rose. As an eternal entity, I fear nothing coming my way. I just feel terrible for what we've done to those who are just getting here and those that will be. If we don't rectify this neglect of the gift of life's dream, the gods will harshly remind us…
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My minister the late William Sloan Coffin suggested that one of life's objectives was to "live as long as you can, and then die as soon as possible", but Fuku radiation seems to promise just the opposite: death at premature ages after radiation-caused prolonged illnesses and cancer.
SPF 4 news has me almost ready to buy the expensive filtered masks.
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HeartoRose—Thank for that indigenous wisdom. Too bad we didn't listen to the indigenous when we stole their lands, slaughtered them, and signed treaties which we never honored. If we had been, were, able to think for the benefit of 7 generations ahead, the extent to which man amplified this disaster would not have happened.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9cNEn7Mazo&feature=player_detailpage
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As beginning it goes back to Fuku @ 10:00 in
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Re-criticality?
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dharmasyd,
We know we are having continuous criticality in some of the reactors that X vessel occurred and then there is the fuel pool that was burning and crushed having criticality many time over the past year !
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They've called in Underdog,……but he's been 'sickened' en-route! Oops!
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yup, its those earthquakes, they are having problems with them, shaking the place to bits, one of those dodgey sticky taped pipes has come undone ;/
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I take it they might announce news on it at 18:00 JST where the temp could be between 60-70c if cooling hasn't been restarted.
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We've been waiting for #4 to fall down for some time now. Either it is far better constructed than we thought (all those earthquakes, and it is still standing?) or else the lies are bigger than we thought. I keep reading posts about temperatures rising in various reactors, but the threads seem to peter out. So is the situation under control or is it just the spin that is controlled?
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milk & cheese…I don't think even the spin is being controlled at this point. More strongish EQs just happened.
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dharmasyd,
But so much of the world is totally unaware of the situation in total bliss !
: |
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A modern version of one of Kipling's sayings might be:
"If you can keep your wits about you when everyone else is losing theirs, maybe you haven't heard the (SPF4) news".
Describes my friends, family and local community pretty well: if you're not looking for it, you won't see it coming.
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xdr & jump…Absolutely right on. If it weren't for you enenewsers, I'd feel much more alone and depressed than I do. So thanks.
Yesterday we had a community meeting in our senior community. I was trying to discuss management's insistence on installing granite counter tops in our apartments. No matter what I said, they treated me like I was an idiot, saying that radon was naturally occuring, that the amount would be no more than sitting in the yard.
This argument seemed ridiculous in light of what I know is about to happen to all these folks in their blissful lack of awareness. I felt like Cassandra. "Oh you great fools, Can't you see?"
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dharmasyd,
wow ! tiny indeed !
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"is the situation under control or is it just the spin that is controlled"
This gas been from the start,.. we find out what is what after the events usually but the future is very predictable but we may not hear of when, best look for signs of government there scrabbling !
Tell-tale
A tell-tale or telltale is an indicator, signal, or sign that conveys the status of a situation, mechanism, or system.
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xdrfox, none of us know, when we go to bed, if we will wake up the next morning. Enjoy while you can.
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milk and cheese,
Yes and this is just another man made added to the odds !
Ir has already shorted billions of lives and made sure so many will not be viable to visit in this world !
: |
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Lots of attention on SFP4 right now. Reactor4 was down for maintenance, and the hot fuel was removed in November, 2010. There was reportedly a load of new MOX in SFP4 on 311. New MOX is fairly tame, but MOX gets nasty radioactive after use. It would be very bad, indeed, if TEPCO had actually been using this new MOX in Reactor4, and if the fuel they removed at the end of 2010 was used MOX. Was TEPCO even licensed to use MOX in Reactor4? I recall that there was a request to convert Reactor4 to MOX pending on 311.
Several weeks ago, TEPCO examined Reactor4 and SFP4 with robotic cameras. My guess is that they were looking for a safe place to put either the MOX fuel, or the fuel that Reactor4 had been using when shutdown in 2010. Is Reactor4 useable for storage of the most deadly fuel from SFP4? TEPCO may announce this soon.
Perhaps they could order a mobile crane that is larger than the Fuku reactor buildings, that can be wheeled over the reactor buildings to remove debris and the contents of each sfp in turn, beginning with SFP4. They use such cranes to lift boats in and out of the water.
Meanwhile, earthquake experts warn that it is almost a certainty that another large quake will hit Fuku soon. Time for decisive remedial action on SFP4 is fast running out. It is also likely that SFP4 could be dewatered at some point in the future. If the theory that the detonation at Unit3 was from SFP3 rather than from Reactor3 is true, expect a similar result from…
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Just to finish that last thought: If SFP4 goes dry, we can expect a detonation similar to that experienced in Unit3, provided the theory is true that SFP3, rather than Reactor3, exploded on 3/14/11.
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philipupnorth,
"crane that is larger than the Fuku reactor buildings,"
These and many other problem solving have been disgusted endlessly to no avail for a year !
There is more to this then they will admit to reasons why they have not been done and enenewers have all given good response to these reasons !
The situation is worse then they have told the world !
We can speculate with reason and grasp the reality of the situation !
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Good morning xdrfox! Yes, we have "discussed" a host of fixes over the past year, and we are "disgusted" with the tepid Tep.gov response. Understand your anger. We are appalled that any nuke is still allowed to continue to operate anywhere on the planet. We can't understand why our friends and family want to talk about baseball or what happened on Survivor this week, rather than the Fuku situation. We can't understand why the government protects the nuke industry, and why MSM doesn't warn the citizenry about what is happening (or give Ron Paul some coverage, right?). We can't understand why there aren't mass protests against the nuke industry going on every day. We know what a waste it would be if indifference and complacency bring humanity to ruin. I believe that humanity will get it together before it is too late. I didn't come here just to watch the human race get nuked. Wonderful transformations are unfolding. Lets hope people wake up and shut nukes down. Lets hope Tep.gov gets it together, or asks for help before SFP4 falls to the ground in a heap.
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Phil..up..nor… You have just spoken what evolution mandates humankind must do. The growth of, for lack of a better word, righteousness was mandated the instant the atom was split. We must grow in consciousness to better approximate the awesome power once attributed only to gods.
Just a little theory of mine which I keep repeating. Whether or not we will make the evolutionary adaptation required or just become another little failed experiment is yet to be seen
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dharmasyd:
. Many thanks. Glad you are here once again. Missed your unique rants!
Humanity now has many powers of the gods. GMO, stem cells, bioengineering, etc. Like the gods, who used atomic bombs in their wars on Earth (see Z. Sitchin) our wisdom lags a bit behind our ability to command our godlike powers. Aliens will not save us, are prohibited from saving us. But like Noah, they are giving us all the help they are allowed to provide us. Even bending the rules a bit in our favor from time to time. But in the end, we must hammer out our own destiny. In the case of the nuke industry, will we continue to suffer these aweful criminals to sell their poison wares among us, and to us, as if their products weren't evil? Shut down all nuke plants now, and forever! Lest we all perish!
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Philipupnorth…Thanks for the ref to Zecharia ASitchin. I've not read him, but will now…
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philipupnorth,
I love bumping into like minds that came to the same conclusions on many or all the things that matter, it means truth is finding it's path with them that have understanding !
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PuN, yes there was a ROV dropped into SFP4, which showed a steel staircase and some concrete rubble (presumably). Also damage to the 'hangers' of some fuel rod assemblies (racks). I read during the past year of posts that many, if not all, the SFPs had been 'crammed', allowing less space between each rack, and therefore generating more heat that needs better, more secure flow to keep the pool cool.
If SFP4 has already burned I'd assume that some of the rods and casings (and/or assemblies) are fused together, and therefore unable to be extracted from above. The engineering problem of removing the racks is exacerbated by the risks of them falling apart or breaking up, thereby initiating criticality. Any work must be done remotely, and the cooling water must have remained pure to minimise corrosion of the fuel rod racks. It hasn't.
IMPACTS OF COOLING WATER QUALITY ON OPERATIONAL
SAFETY OF WATER COOLED REACTOR
http://www.iwtc.info/2007_pdf/13-6.pdf
"Cooling water chemistry and its effects on fuel elements cladding and reactor
components materials performance are important factors for safe and reliable operation
of nuclear reactors. This is because; at elevated temperature, water is an aggressive
medium and may causes corrosion problems in fuel elements cladding and reactor
structural materials. For this reason, reliability and safety for nuclear power and
research reactors are achieved by using proper fuel cladding and structural materials.
Also,…
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(cont) …Also, cooling water regimes must be adjusted and proved to prevent dangerous
corrosion problems."
"Water quality is tightly controlled to prevent the fuel or its cladding from degrading"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spent_fuel_pool
http://enenews.com/just-in-peroxides-formed-by-seawater-and-melted-fuel-even-more-likely-to-react-with-elements-in-core-not-clear-exactly-what-kinds-of-chemicals-were-released-different-than-freshwater/comment-page-1
So assume the racks, even if they LOOK intact, may not survive being lifted. Furthermore, the crane above the SFP would have had precise, slow tacking to lift the assemblies clean, and move them STILL UNDER WATER through the sluice between the SFP and the containment vessel. I doubt very much if a mobile crane (especially that high, with a 'blind' operator) could be operated with such precision as is required to move degraded, brittle fuel rods and assemblies. Even IF they can be separated from each other, and then be lifted.
No human can get close to the assemblies in SFP4, so the entire operation would need to be carried out with robots. This equipment is not even designed yet, let alone made…
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correction: cranes would have had precise, slow TRACKING…
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The Fuku problem will become dire if and when radiation levels rise to the point that the workers are driven away. Without people there, pumps stop working, fuel pools dry up, fires burn, rods melt, and things go boom in the night. Human longevity on planet Earth will go down rapidly. Japan evacuated. Worldwide economic collapse and depression. Etc.
Aside from the larger quantity of fuel in SFP4, can someone please explain to me why the explosion in Unit3 wasn't a greater catastrophy for humanity than the potential collapse or dewatering of SFP4?
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philipupnorth,
"when radiation levels rise to the point that the workers are driven away. Without people there, pumps stop working, fuel pools dry up, fires burn, rods melt, and things go boom in the night." < You already know !
Domino affect across Japan, winds will blow and carry large amounts of deadly radiation down winders will need to abandon the plants there also, soon no one to man one after another, boom , boom, boom, boom, ……
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xdr… That's when we'll know we didn't make the required adaptation.
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Or becomes a problem when the workers become too ill to be productive…
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jec,
This has been a problem, I wonder where they are getting new people ?? Older men, retirees ? They must be in short supply of volunteers !
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I have heard that the Yakuza goes to other countries in Southeast Asia..particularly the ones ravaged by natural disaster…and enlists non-Japanese workers.
The supply is endless…
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For as little as $100 per day…
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Or, like an article said,…when the workers would rather gamble than work. Ummm,…isn't their work a big enough gamble?
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in theory the radiation is already too high for people, depending as to where you are at. the explosion of reactor 3 was devastating enough and we see the combined damage it did all over the ocean and the land but if i followed this event well enough there is a difference between a fission under open sky and one that occurs in a reactor housing even if this bows up.. containment might be breached but at least there was some containment. SPF4 appears to have quite enough MOX fuel stored plus a complete reactor core, so it would be like a core and an SPF going up in fresh air, uncontained etc. radioactivity is accumulative.. the more, the worse, the longer the worse.
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you're right about the intensity / exposure issue.
Should correct you on your abbreviation of Spent Fuel Pool Number Four. It should read SFP4, not SPF4. This is a common mistake, as we're long accustomed to thing Solar Protection Factor, ala "SPF". BTW. My brain was also doing this same trans-positioning of the lettering order…
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A…Shock…brain doing same thing as in "we're long accustomed to >thing< Solar Protection Factor, ala "SPF". I couldn't resist 'seeing' Shock!
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Perfectly said, snowwy!
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I am really not sure why the collapse of SFP4 would be a greater global catastrophe than what we have (so secretively) had, the explosion of SFP3. I don't know how to answer that question. I have the same question.
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Why have we not been allowed to see the videos of the explosions at reactor 4, unlike reactor 1, 2, 3?
Why have we not been shown images of of the fuel sitting in reactor 4, video that shows it is reactor 4?
The NRC stated repeatedly that they were certain that the SFP4 was "gone." HoTaters pointed out that they said this before R3 blew up.
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I'm beginning to get a bit tired of people saying that 'the NRC said that' and 'the NRC said this'.
Think about when they said it and the sources of info they were using. Fourth hand quotes from TEPCO that were censored, the Japanese gov. but they were getting info from TEPCO too. The only other place was the MSM in Japan.
Japan had just been through a M9 earthquake and a 20 meter (60+ feet) tsunami and had had 25000 people killed x3 wounded.
Imagine the Gulf coast during Katrina and the BP oil spill and then times it by ten. The US gov. still don't know how many died even now!.
All this was not good for making clear decisions or getting hold of firm facts, it was total chaos.
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Recommendations concerning the safety and licensing of nuclear reactors is based on the opinion of the NRC.
In the NRC FOIA documents..(what is not redacted) …shows people involved giving their best accessments.
The NRC had access to various levels of data..including the data from the US Ronald Reagan.
What the NRC chose to tell the public is another matter.
I'm rather sick of what the NRC says too..because they are liars.
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