No plan to stop Fukushima from contaminating Pacific? Tepco adviser ‘doubts’ ice wall can stop groundwater from flooding plant — We’re concerned it may affect ‘environmental protection’ and cause ‘unintended consequences’ (VIDEO)

Published: May 1st, 2014 at 2:04 pm ET


Kyodo News, May 1, 2014: Int’l expert doubts ice wall will solve Japanese nuclear plant leaks — An international nuclear expert [Dale Klein, head of TEPCO supervisory panel] expressed skepticism Thursday over [the] plan to set up an ice wall to ultimately stop radioactive water from further increasing […] Former British Atomic Energy Authority Chairwoman Barbara Judge […] said there is a need to assess during summer whether the ice wall method would be effective. The remarks by the two overseas experts came at a time when concerns over the plan are being raised by Japan’s Nuclear Regulation Authority and engineering experts. Their opinions may cast a shadow on TEPCO’s plan to begin operating the ice wall by the end of next March.

Dale Klein, head of TEPCO supervisory panel: “I’m not convinced that the freeze wall is the best option. What I’m concerned about is unintended consequences. Where does that water go and what are the consequences of that? I think they need more testing and more analysis […] No one has built a freeze wall this long for this period of time. Typically, you build a freeze wall for a few months […] The freeze wall is expensive [and they need to make the] best use of limited resources. […] I would encourage them to get international advice a little bit more.”

Bloomberg, May 1, 2014: A government-backed plan for a frozen underground wall to limit water contamination at the wrecked Fukushima atomic station needs further vetting for potential risks to the environment, an adviser to the plant’s operator said. The plan, which is intended to keep groundwater from seeping into the basements of the plant’s damaged reactor buildings, may not function as intended because it’s based on untested assumptions about the site’s hydrology, said Dale Klein, who chairs Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s Nuclear Reform Monitoring Committee. The wall is scheduled to be completed by the end of March 2015 and will remain in operation through 2020, Mayumi Yoshida, a Tepco spokeswoman, said by phone.

Klein: “Are there any unintended consequences? We’re concerned about safety and environmental protection […] if Tepco finds technical information that indicates the frozen wall is not the best, they need to communicate that to the government. I know the government has said that they will put in the frozen wall, but I hope that science will trump political policy.”

NHK WORLD, May 1, 2014: Expert: TEPCO’s safety culture still insufficient — A panel of nuclear experts monitoring reforms at the Tokyo Electric Power Company says the utility’s nuclear safety culture has not yet reached the required level. […] TEPCO officials acknowledge management problems led to troubles with systems used to purify contaminated water, and repeated water leaks. They say the firm has failed to end the vicious cycle of relying on makeshift systems due to lack of time, which leads to fresh troubles. They say they were unable to make full preparations for cleanup work while being aware of a lack of technological capabilities.

Watch NHK’s broadcast here

Published: May 1st, 2014 at 2:04 pm ET


Related Posts

  1. NPR: Melted reactor cores’ radioactivity being carried out to sea — Expert warns saltwater will flow into Fukushima plant if ice wall is installed; “Even if it works, it might not be a good thing… can have ‘unintended consequences'” (AUDIO) September 8, 2013
  2. Officials concerned ice wall to “trigger significant subsidence” and further endanger reactor buildings — Risk of more nuclear material ‘spilling out’ of basements due to dramatic change in groundwater — Numerous hazards “could undermine the plant” — “Impact on entire situation” still being studied (VIDEO) June 3, 2014
  3. TV: A force beyond human control was unleashed at Fukushima, says former top U.S. nuclear official — Impossible to stop radioactive groundwater flowing into Pacific (VIDEO) September 25, 2013
  4. Tepco: Trench connected to Unit No. 2 is what’s contaminating groundwater at Fukushima — Has extremely high levels of over 3 billion Bq/liter of radioactive substances — Water is flowing in from reactor building (VIDEO) August 12, 2013
  5. CNN: Fukushima fallout ‘grossly underestimated’ says new Japan study — “Radioactive poison… contaminating the North Pacific Ocean” — Tepco: ‘Impossible’ to know how much really got out (VIDEO) May 22, 2014

112 comments to No plan to stop Fukushima from contaminating Pacific? Tepco adviser ‘doubts’ ice wall can stop groundwater from flooding plant — We’re concerned it may affect ‘environmental protection’ and cause ‘unintended consequences’ (VIDEO)

  • Ontological Ontological

    Were gonna piss more time away because we really cant do ANYTHING is more like it!

    • Sol Man

      It would have been nice if they had those concerns many, many years ago.

    • OldFool

      TEPCO is out of their league. This is beyond them.
      If memory is correct, the icewall would require 40-50 million dollars a year for electricity for 10,000 years plus, without Any significant electrical power failure. T'would be a wee bit of a technical challenge. Even the Pyramids are only about 4700 years old and they are having a few maintenance problems.
      Even if TEPCO succeeds in building an icewall, there are so many other consequences that they would still have to be build an outer harbor wall with some kind of removable zeolite filter compatible with seawater – if this is technically possible. But this would cost probably several hundreds of billions of dollars to make it earthquake and tsunami proof, which a profit seeking corporation is not likely to want to spend. So there will be a few problems. For example, the Pacific Ocean can increase in radioactivity until it is lost by bio-concentration as a food source for billions of people. Then life is likely to become somewhat unpleasant.

      • We Not They Finally

        Yeah, permanent unlimited electricity supply just to keep the plant that used to produce electricity from poisoning the whole planet with radiation.

        Sounds like a bargain to me [extreme sarc].

        Oh, it's also UNDOABLE? Well, who would have thunk….?

      • NondiPloom

        How about the obvious problem: earthquake?

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    1 nuclear plant contaminating Japan and the ocean.

    And for no reason, as we have unlimited power from sun and wind.

  • Nick


    Fukushima DNPP = one of the world's largest nuclear electrical generating sites. It HAD 4 plants on site + the spent fuel pools.

    The problem is, TEPCO keeps flooding the awol reactor cores with tons of water, then that in turn is radioactive.

    They can only capture a small percentage of water that they are using, and of that, an even smaller percentage actually gets "filtered."

    Remember, all nuclear power plants, everywhere, discharge radioactive water by design NOT accidentally.

    The ICE WALL is equivalent to a perpetual motion machine, totally impossible, totally unfeasible, and certainly unrealistic.

    "while being aware of a lack of technological capabilities."

    So what the hell are we boiling water in this way for? (Oh yeah, I forgot, to get the bomb goodies)

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Nick, thanks. My thinking exactly (the author's) but never was able to articulate it like that. My only difference of opinion with the book's author is the U.S. is a Constitutional Republic and NOT a democracy.

      Democracy is what the U.S. has been trying to push off on other nations as part of its agenda of global hegemony. Or some call it empire building.

      To call it "democracy" in my opinion is sort of a fatal flaw in logic. (Ask yourself how many U.S. presidents have justified military intervention under the guise of "protecting" or "establishing" democracy ????

      Otherwise, brilliant article and a book which IMO would be well worth reading.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        Democracy in its pure sense, as practiced in ancient Greece, was a beautiful and near-perfect system of governance, for the period during which it worked effectively and efficiently.

        The world has never since the time of the Greeks seen democracy properly modeled nor existant.

  • Nick

    TEPCO: Um. Remember that icewall idea?

    Concerned Government Official (does such an entity actually exist?):
    Yeah. Why?

    T: We have discovered a flaw in our computer model. It turns out someone forgot to input some data.

    CGO: Why is that a problem?

    T: Because the Icewall would fail catastrophically in about 3 months upon completion.

    CGO: How much have we spent to date?

    T: XXXXX million yen

    CGO: Tell you what. Keep spending the money, but forgoe anymore construction.

    T: So sorry. Hope your family is well.

    CGO: They are safe in Argentina……

  • monster

    The ice wall is just a political illusion, if no one can see it they can't say it's not working. Then test data will be their saviour.

  • Nick

    OT (but critical)

    I just got a weird "are you sure you want to log out" screen..had a wordpress address.

    is this legit?


      possible server burp, Nick. I've also seen this message. Advise logging back out and in again. That should refresh your account connection…

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    The nuclear industry has a successful ice wall built around their hearts. Like a cold love, when the money is good they all gather round, but responsibility is not their strong card.

    From Reo Speedwagon's "Take it on the Run.":

    Heard it from another you been messin' around
    You're out late every weekend
    They're talkin' about you and it's bringin' me down

    But I know the neighborhood
    And talk is cheap when the story is good
    And the tales grow taller on down the line
    But I'm telling you, babe

    You're thinking up your white lies
    You're putting on your bedroom eyes
    You say you're coming home but you won't say when
    But I can feel it coming
    If you leave tonight keep running
    And you need never look back again



    Better think about running but where you gonna go, when the whole planet is radioactive? The grass always looks greener but on the other side of the fence is nothing but space, you dumb…….

    • skizexq skizexq

      I'm waking up to ash and dust
      I wipe my brow and I sweat my rust
      I'm breathing in the chemicals
      I'm breaking in, shaping up, then checking out on the prison bus
      This is it, the apocalypse

      I'm waking up, I feel it in my bones
      Enough to make my systems blow
      Welcome to the new age, to the new age
      Welcome to the new age, to the new age
      Whoa, whoa, I'm radioactive, radioactive
      Whoa, whoa, I'm radioactive, radioactive

      I raise my flags, don my clothes
      It's a revolution, I suppose
      We'll paint it red to fit right in
      I'm breaking in, shaping up, then checking out on the prison bus
      This is it, the apocalypse

      I'm waking up, I feel it in my bones
      Enough to make my systems blow
      Welcome to the new age, to the new age
      Welcome to the new age, to the new age
      Whoa, whoa, I'm radioactive, radioactive
      Whoa, whoa, I'm radioactive, radioactive

      All systems go, sun hasn't died
      Deep in my bones, straight from inside

      I'm waking up, I feel it in my bones
      Enough to make my systems blow
      Welcome to the new age, to the new age
      Welcome to the new age, to the new age
      Whoa, whoa, I'm radioactive, radioactive
      Whoa, whoa, I'm radioactive, radioactive

      imagine dragons…radioactive lyrics.
      what are they telling us with their interpretation of their song (youtube)

      a song that has more to it than meets the eye.

  • We Not They Finally

    If Barbara Judge, TEPCO's chillingly callous spokesperson quoted above, has "doubts" what will work, we all need to be making our bucket lists and writing goodbye notes.

    She was the one who said that she "visited Fukushima" (no, she didn't) and found that "the morale was fantastic!" She's one of the creepiest people on Earth. But she would never say a word against nuclear energy unless it was actually beyond hopeless and they just needed a little window-dressing for new catastrophic news.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      Careful who you insult! Lady Barbara Judge was anointed so by none other than the Queen (may God bless her supremacy). Before that she was merely Barbara, the judge lady and knew nothing about nuclear. I still think she should do a reality show with Judge Judy called "kiss my stiletto, stupid slave boy"

      • bo bo

        Yeah… her life story is quite sickening.. she was even 'a hippie' at one point. And wanted to be an actress but became a lawyer instead.


          go easy on her, bo. Only so many lampposts to go around…

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            you mean go easy on the ice wall queen…little miss uranium giggles, miss ram-the-nuke-project-through at the champagne party and dust off the dead public particles from your mink stole? Go EZ she said, clutching her oxygen bottle in one hand whilst holding her nighty close around her ever fatter tummy. Wait, am I getting off topic?

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Impermeable Wall Is The Answer If Frozen Wall Won't Work!

    Advantages of Impermeable Wall over Frozen Wall:
    Impermeable Wall is already 1/4 completed.
    Requires no power.
    No new technology needed.
    Can divert surface water around reactor buildings.
    Can double as part of foundation for Sarcophagus.
    Resists earthquakes.
    Can be used to regulate level of water table.
    Can serve as part of Ultimate Heat Sink for 3 Underground Rogue Nuclear Reactors.
    They gotta do something NOW.
    Why not do the Impermeable Wall?

    Where is the damn corium, eh, TEPCO? 😉

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      The ground and the groundwater under Units1-4 is heated by 3 Rogue Nuclear Reactors.
      Over 250 tonnes of uncontrolled melted nuclear fuel.
      It will be like trying to freeze the water in a pan on the stove with the gas burner turned to high.
      Can't be done.
      This was a political decision, IMO, an attempt by the Abe Government to shame TEPCO.
      Merely a justification for restarting nukes.

      The wonder to me is how such a bad idea could get this far?
      Briefcases of money delivered to the doors of key politicians in the night?
      You betcha! 😉

    • Hi PhilipUpNorth,
      I am absolutely not qualified to put any feasible input into a solution as I am just a lowly average citizen but your idea seems like it could be legit. Have you or have you thought of somehow submitting it to them now that they are taking suggestions? I have no idea how the whole process works but surely this is as good a suggestion as any they have probably received to date. Just wondering 🙂

      • Ontological Ontological

        It will only back up the cooling/ground water. Two things happen then, the water escapes anyways, they rest evaporates and the radionuclides simply lift into the air like hot air balloon Bucky balls. This renders the plant unapproachable. Then do what with the horrible radioactive backed up water?? Store it in tanks? Pipe dreams are so wonderful when that is all we have I guess.

        • bf9 bf9

          Yep, and whatever water happens to be left inside the wall will get hotter…and hotter…(thermally and radiologically) until buildings collapse from insane atomic bombardment and/or the site becomes so radioactive to the point of instantaneous fatality. The deluge of water underground is what's prevented the site from becoming incomprehensibly radioactive.

          Our only shot at this thing is by A) Removing ALL remaining fuel off side including the common pool, B) Remove- as in dig up- what can be removed of the coria underground. This needs to be done quickly as if it is "dusting" like Chernobyl's corium then it is getting washed out to sea with the water as we speak, and C) Dry cask all fuel, figure out what the hell to do with what remains of coria retrieved, make an attempt to put a sarcophagus on anything remaining including an underground wall and move on to the "defensive" side.

          All of this needs to be completed in about 8-10 months, except for the dry casking of fuel which at this point SHOULD take an additional year or so. Say it can't be done? Bullshit. I *would* be able to orchestrate this with 4 million people and 850 billion dollars. Largely a suicide mission, a large chunk of them will unfortunately die very quickly- but that's the cost here.

          Short of that we have zero chance. Zero. 99% of life on earth will cease for a few hundred million years, with 99% of said current lifeforms extinct in maybe 100 years time. Not to mention the chaos preceding.

          • tarpus

            …this seems like the only option they have left now. Massive liquidation of the site by liquidators causing strangely enough, internal liquidation of liquid filled organs…

          • PurpleRain PurpleRain

            I don't think they can put any fuel into dry cask yet… isn't the fuel required to "cool" for five years before any can be put into a dry cask/cement coffin?

  • Trying to stop a corium from fissioning with an ice 'wall' is like trying to make butter or cheese out of moon rocks.

    Crazy is as crazy does.


  • I like this bit in the article:

    "“I would encourage them to get international advice a little bit more,” Klein said about Tepco, in terms of its decontamination work and future plans to scrap the plant."

  • dosdos dosdos

    I keep getting this image of the ice wall being completed, then the whole block that it contains rises violently (ice floats, flow of water goes around and beneath the wall to pool, separating the block from the rest of the ground.) Imagine four wrecked reactors rising and toppling as one big chunk of displaced ground. Not a pretty picture.

  • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

    Icewall? No, dig it up!

  • earthsmith earthsmith

    Containment???…are they still trying to use that word. Ha…they know the only containment is our biosphere. Deforming chromosome…check, mutating cells….check, crazy binding proteins….check, immune system collapse….inevitable, containment<humans…..check.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      Containment is putting a band-aid on your butt when you have diarrhea.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        being a nuclear engineer means never having to say youre sorry…

        nuclear engineering means putting two heads together

        an ice wall means no need to put your beer in the fridge or have high expectations for the future

        To hire Lady Barbara to fix the problem is to worry her eyelids will fall off during a media shoot

        To rely on alien intervention is pathetic, but so far the best option

        To navigate to the top of the corporate fascist ladder you need a non functioning moral compass and a thirst for wild orgies with aging appointees of the queen

        A good nuclear employee sees no explosions, hears no explosions and speaks about no explosions

        A good marine scientist is always in need of more public funding for harmless fallout

        a true guru can laugh off the vicissitudes of material incarnation, but the rest of us must suffer

          • Gasser Gasser

            New hope

            At the end of isle 3 just around the corner, sure enough there it was in bright florescent yellow, The~Atomic~Becquerel~Whacker right next to the $9.99 Pancake Geiger counter sale display.

            The brochure reads that this unit is a 9v batt user friendly small/light single hand operational for indoor decontamination also has optional plug & play attachments for yard/farm/ranch and industrial super fund clean up applications.

            Says; this unit is designed to manipulate the laws governing interactions on the subatomic scale of any/all radioactive elements Electron~Positron annihilation collision orbits, using a high/low electromagnetic frequency force gravity photon interaction exchange pulse to flip shift atomic gears into Positron~Electron user friendly thermal equilibrium, neutralizing radioactive particles into nontoxic heavy metals that can be magnetically collected for recycling…Made in USA

          • Funny you should mention that.

            Above Chernobyl UFO hovered

            UFO Sighting Chernobyl

  • weeman

    Newtons third law, When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.
    Ice wall is not a solution

    • Sol Man

      Body of people demand energy from matter (the second body.) Matter responds by ejecting energy over all of creation, like an eternal orgasm.

      Matter says, "There, are you happy now?!"

  • Crickets Crickets

    With this catastrophe the planet is starting to look very small. Hopeless and very sad. Nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.

  • 21stCentury 21stCentury

    ~~~Build a Bigger Breakwater NOW Please~~~

    The entire Fshima-Complex an be groundwater isolated with a hemispherical basket of refrigerated Flexsteel tubes.

    With proper project management this is not as expensive or complex as many less experienced people think.

    The amount of energy to initiate and sustain this large icewall is equal to one large shipload of LNG and a group of offshore floating windmills.

    Rad-Fallout causes braindamage, and then groupthink = groupstink

    the Flustercluck is worse than the RadMess

    is there ANY adult-supervision on Earth anymore ??

    more proof that Humans are a Failed Species

    Korea is committing more floating barge-cranes and heavy equipment to that sunken ferryboat than anybody ever tried to marshall to fixing Fshima

    it's not much more complicated than building the bridge at Hoover Dam

    Yes, Fshima an be fixed and converted into a large LNG import facility with less difficulty than everybody thinks.

    • Crickets Crickets

      Thanks, it's good to see people putting forth ideas to contain this mess. I will say, however, that "adult supervision" is what got us into this mess in the first place. The world is being supervised by adults and it's going to hell in a hand basket as far as I'm concerned. The only suggestion I can agree with and that technically I can understand at this point is the one about shutting all these nasty poison machines down at once.

  • 21stCentury 21stCentury

    note to admin: pls; try to add an edit function..thx

    • SadieDog

      I don't know 21st C, I kinda like the mistakes and not being able to change what you say. Can you imagine the arguments that would arise around people quoting "original" posts and how many "that's not what I said"'s we would have to read through. Plus, once you realize you can't edit or remove what you say here, you become more cautious and aware of the words or links you/me/we post. Just my opinion. 😉

  • razzz razzz

    Money problem. Can't contain (via a underground wall or otherwise) the radioactive contaminated runoff because there is no where to collect, store and process it all or an entire new man-made swamp will be more radioactive than if they just continue to allow the radioactive excesses to mix with aquifers and flow to the open Pacific.

    Basically, even a preventive fix is to expensive to give a shit about.

    The main problem will be trying to keep the site from become unworkable.

    Just about half way through removing spent fuel from Unit 4's pool.

    The WIPP circus is back in town for a few hours. Clowns are replaced with zombies.

  • GQR2

    WIPPlash tv in ten minutes. 5:30 MST

    • GQR2

      Russel Hardy is a huckster and not a very good one at that. He is not in the business of radiation testing he is in the business of selling Radiation Exposure. He is beyond the pale. Dispersion only means the contamination spread further it doesn't dilute or go away. He is a con artist. No wonder his staff speak in the idiotic terms. Then he purposely throws around numbers and decimals with the intent to smog over the audience. He doesn't give information,he gives information perception. Shame on him – he must hate his kids.

  • jcfougere jcfougere

    Went to a new Chiro Dr today for a treatment.

    He told me he would need to do X-rays to see my alignment better and I told him no, I wasn't comfortable having x-rays if not absolutely necessary.

    He then told me about Hormesis.

    Fills me with rage.

    • zogerke zogerke

      jcfougere- try and find an osteopath who manipulates. Does adjustments by soft tissue and spine manipulation and counterstrain and palpation. They have three times the training of a Chiro…and in my experience it is like they have cameras in their fingertips, they are so good at knowing anatomy, fascia, fluid dynamics in the body…find a good osteopath.

    • Nemo Me Impune Lacessit Stax

      X-Ray = lazy bastard doctor, hope you feel supple quickly jcfougere.

    • The New York Times Editorial Board still thinks nuclear is a source of "clean" energy. (They also screamed their lies from rooftops claiming Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq).

      The Right Lessons From Chernobyl

      As we now know, the only WMD in Iraq was U.S. forces and their safe and green depleted uranium that has caused a 7-fold increase in leukemia and cancers in Southern Iraq.

      So, please, New York Times, give it a rest. Please.

      • Ontological Ontological

        I told em NO to CAT scans on my back. I am a skull cancer survivor, all I need is more electromagnetic radiation and friggin' x rays. If my back is spine cancer, been nice knowing yall.

        • They wanted to do a 22mSV upper body CAT on me….

          No joke, the tech when questioned stated, I am not sure how much it is, but I heard it is like flying on an airplane.

          I turned it down….results of a blood test would be available the next day, and would possibly preclude the need for the CAT……

          22mSV , 10 years of background, on a "maybe needed"

          CAT wasn't needed. The system is INSANE!

  • rogerthat

    my tuppence worth: don't worry about an edit button, all is perfectly intelligible; bad spelling, gremlins are part of the rich tapestry of life, ha ha. Think of them as the signature mistakes in fine persian carpets.

  • rogerthat

    I think the secret plan for fukushima is to bury it in crap. A giant, smoking stinking pile of useless words, lies, garbage, horseshit, never-ending obfuscation, all wrapped up in duct tape and blue plastic sheeting. Then cover it all with a giant snow job and hold the winter olympics there.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Former British Atomic Energy Authority Chairwoman Barbara Judge […] said there is a need to assess during summer whether the ice wall method would be effective.

    Tests are proving failure in winter.
    What is to be learned in summer?

    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      Oops.. (quote)

      "Former British Atomic Energy Authority Chairwoman Barbara Judge […] said there is a need to assess during summer whether the ice wall method would be effective."

      What happens when an earthquake knocks out power to the ice wall?

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        Atmospheric temperature affect the ice wall?
        How so?

      • dosdos dosdos

        The ice wall is essentially a wall of metal pipes set several hundred feet into the ground, much like a water well, except that the bottom end is sealed off so that water won't go up into the pipe. Then, when the array is ready, liquid nitrogen is poured into all the pipes. The electrical power is needed to compress the air into liquid nitrogen. Gigawatts of power and tons of liquid nitrogen. If the power fails, the ground will stay frozen for weeks or months.

        Why do I have so little hope that this will go as planned? TEPCO and many tons of liquid nitrogen in a high radiation environment. I am not inspired with confidence

  • ftlt

    The ice barrier was always just a band-aid

  • Crickets Crickets

    Evacuate everyone within 500 miles of FUKU. Build robots that can dig a huge pit and line the pit with reinforced concrete, somewhere west of FUKU, miles away from the shore. Build more robots that can operate heavy equipment and a convoy of dump trucks. Excavate all the earth around and under FUKU and truck it to pit. Use helicopters to pour tons of concrete over pit.


  • Seraphine Seraphine

    Oh, NOW they're concerned about the effect on the environment?

  • SadieDog

    Towns hold meetings on storage of radioactive soil from Fukushima clean-up…

  • Nick

    The problem with our nuclear maddened world, is grappling with the span of time needed to "baby-sit" the decaying atoms until they are well behaved enough to go out into our biosphere.

    But many wayward atoms have already flown the coop and we have no way of calling them home, they are lost forever across eons of time.

    Just putting the shit in cans doesn't alter this reality.

    The IceWall idea is about as dumb as they come (frozen can).

    How are you going to provide power for 10,000 years?

    Absolutely impossible.

    Look at our fading infrastructure.

    Nuclear anything ages materials. It cannot be safely stored, ever.

    Unfortunately, all nuclear facilities discharge radioactive water into the biosphere by design not by accident.

    That is a problem.

  • In the meanwhile Abe starts other nukes. Finitiative infinite.
    Shhh! Its secret.
    Clinging to one as if it were all, narrow dull and dark.
    Why nuclear power in the sun requires of us not to supply fuel from the bowels of Mother Earth ever!
    Wendell Berry: In living in this world by his own will and skill, the stupidest peasant or tribesman is more competent than the most intelligent worker or technician or intellectual in a society of specialists.
    MH 370 anyone ?
    It completely disappeared
    And where are the coriums? Disappeared!
    And the cumulative effects of modern civilization?
    Consider they dont exist as far as modern designs for meeting needs in modern civilization are concerned. Consider the designs frozen as of today! Glaring lacunae leading life to extinction. By the way, what can we expect in May 2014?
    A 7.6 MM damquake(Whats this? Well it caused all the catastrophes of modern civilization(MC)) between 13 to 20 May. Probably in China or Fukushima or Indonesia or Philippines or elsewhere on the Pacific Rim or in the Himalayas. The critical question for MC is: Is there money to be netted on and on like the ice wall or the vanishing of it like in the Arctic?

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Turning The Impermeable Wall Enclosure Into Part Of An Ultimate Heat Sink
    (Answer to bf9 posted above in this thread.)

    Sooner or later, Japan will realize that an underground Frozen Wall is a bad idea.
    Suppose TEPCO then makes a decision to complete the partially-constructed underground Impermeable Wall.
    Suppose they re-engineer an Impermeable Wall Enclosure of interlocking sheet steel pilings to completely enclose Reactors1-4, as should have been done in the first place. 😉
    Suppose they figure out that they can avoid flooding the plant by building the inland portion of the wall before building the harbor portion of the wall. 😉
    So the wall gets built, and the water table can be controlled pretty easily by just adding or removing a bit of water from the enclosure, as necessary.
    But a problem emerges: Heat.
    One or more underground Rogue Nuclear Reactors (aka "Corium") heats up the groundwater.
    What can TEPCO do about excess heat buildup within the Impermeable Wall Enclosure?
    Answer: Build an Ultimate Heat Sink (UHS).
    Cooling Towers can be built nearby.
    Groundwater is pumped out of the enclosure from 12 shallow wells, drilled along the harbor side within the enclosure.
    This water is then pumped through a cooling tower loop, where excess heat is removed.
    The cooled water is pumped back into the ground, using 12 shallow injection wells dug inland from Units1-4, within the enclosure.
    Problem solved! 🙂

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Rebeca007 suggests above that I submit the Impermeable Wall Enclosure concept to TEPCO and the Japanese Government.
    When I post suggestions and observations here on ENEnews, folks within TEPCO and the Japanese Government, along with their spouses, relatives, and friends, are picking up on some of these ideas. I am fairly confident that some of the good ideas posted here are getting brought up during meetings on the Fukushima Decommission. My posts on these concepts can be easily found using Google Search. I keep the language simple, and try to make the concepts as clear and easy to understand as possible, in part so that it will translate well into Japanese.

    This is also why I keep asking Fukushima Question One:

    "Where is the damn corium, TEPCO?"

  • Sickputer

    Tepco knew they would never complete the ice wall. It was just Olympic propaganda electioneering.

    Many Enenewsers predicted this failure announcement back in September 2013.

    It's done…stick a fork in it. Trot out the next turkey. Pablum for the masses. They already think the ice wall was built successfully. Except for savvy Internet folks.

    Many humans will die prematurely. Don't be one of them. Find your own survival strategies.

  • Nick

    In 6 years, I cannot imagine a "normal" Olympics being held in Tokyo.

    They might as well start building a dome with sophisticated filtration systems now over the athletic sites.

    Nothing less would be madness.

    Here's to GMI all, Nick out.

  • dosdos dosdos

    To me, the issue not tested with the ice wall is the water flow. It has been tested before, but not on this scale, and not where the water below ground was flowing. It was tested in a flat area where the groundwater largely just sat there.

    The ground below Daiichi is permeable, allowing the groundwater to flow down from the mountains and into the sea. If you create a dam of any sort around the reactors, the water will find a way to flow around and beneath the wall. This rechanneled water will erode the area around and below the wall. This will create a gap that will allow the wall to move, and the flowing water is the force that would move it.

    The ground at Daiichi is unstable enough. Rechannelling water in a concentrated flow where there had been a diffuse flow is going to create all sorts of chaos. Add to it that TEPCO would say keep the wall as small as possible to save money. This means a flat face facing the mountain, rather than a V, like a ship's bow to divert the water with less resistance. The water from the mountains will press against the flat wall, and dislodge it. The effect above ground could range from the toppling of cranes and towers (some of which are very hot) to the toppling of reactors. It just depends how the block within the ice wall reacts.

  • PurpleRain PurpleRain

    cynobateria….? … hopefully am not spelling this too badly….info via rsoe-edis: The discovery of toxic blue-green algae has led to the closure of the Hampshire section of the Basingstoke Canal. The Environment Agency found the algae today between Dogmersfield and Broad Oak, and at Odiham. It has closed the canal from Ash lock to Greywell to all unpowered boats, such as canoes and rowing boats. Visitors to the canal are being advised to take further precautions. People are advised not to touch of go in the water as the algae can cause skin rashes, eye irritation, vomiting, fever and muscle pain. Warning signs have been put up along the affected stretch of the canal.

  • The writer steers well clear of nuclear and is perhaps helping to sell more meds for big pharma, but, to be fair, the conclusion is that the young ones do something about it, not just think about all the time and drive themselves up the wall.

    Well, if they're anxious now, just wait til they hear about Fukushima ….

    Youth anxiety on the rise amid changing climate
    The Globe and Mail
    Published Thursday, May. 01 2014, 3:30 PM EDT
    Last updated Thursday, May. 01 2014, 3:30 PM EDT

    "Child psychiatrists, psychologists and educators say they’ve seen an escalation in the anxiety levels of today’s youth, who are constantly exposed to doomsday talk about the destruction of our planet. But despite the fact that we live in a world with more volatility and fear, experts say there is hope. And to stay mentally strong, they all advocate not just calling for change, but acting for it."

  • nuknomore nuknomore

    Since we are dealing with the "impossible" and 3 years have already gone by. I keep wondering why there was not an attempt to dig, dig , dig into the ground ahead of the plant. pour cement and divert the underground stream.
    Its as "impossible" as any of the other things attempted. Yet seems more probable.. Considering we build dams and bridges and create islands. That are on such a huge scale, they seem impossible .
    At least if they had of said they were digging ahead of the plant, and trying to divert this under ground water. I would have at least thought it made some kind of sense.. It at least brings more hope than a ice wall.
    Though common sense says, all suggestions at this point are equally ludicrous.
    Because thinking we could harness this power was always ludicrous.

  • dosdos
    May 3, 2014 at 1:14 pm
    Av dosdos: Even though I find enenewsers leave my comments generally scrupulously untouched, your comment is too pertinent to leave disregarded! I must add to your excellent technical issues raised, one more: Just hours ago a 6 MM magnitude damquake hit Japan:
    2014-05-04 20:18:22 34.88 N 139.35 E 128 6.0 NEAR S. COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
    Not all the fury of the cumulative dam surge measuring 100000 Everest heights of water pressure head will be converted to a quake or a dam related event. But the ice wall may easily be struck with the surge measuring that of a great damquake(8 MM or greater). Thus modern civilization(MC) built on the false principle that the artifacts are separate and non-interacting has given rise to dams which are generically fatally flawed. Thus the ice wall is being constantly hit by these giant sledge hammer effects of Love and Rayleigh waves created continuously by dams and will crumble sooner rather than later. See predicting earthquakes at

  • mindfloat

    Pump it out and deep into the earth. We have the technology. Letting it flow into the pacific should be an international crime.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    It is an international crime, but no one is going to prosecute anyone..but then if someone goes and steals a 6 pack of soda, you may/might serve 15 years in jail…if that is not pure insanity I have no idea what else is.

    All laws are created to keep the sheep/cattle under control and none of these laws address those shepherds/controllers/overseers/writers of those same laws that control/enslave those sheep flocks/cattle herds.

    Do exactly as I say, but not/never as I actually do.. 🙁

    What is good for may goose is not good for the gander.. 🙁

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    oops…What is good for "my" goose is not good for the gander

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