Tepco Official in Washington DC: We don’t know location of melted fuel from Fukushima reactors

Published: September 7th, 2012 at 12:31 pm ET


Title: Fukushima panel told some details will take five years to learn
Source: Platts News
Date: 7 Sep 2012

Key details of how the accident at Japan’s Fukushima I nuclear plant played out have yet to be determined and may not be known for five years or more, when important parts of the plant are safer to enter, officials with the Japanese and US nuclear industries told a US National Academies review committee Thursday.

A committee of the National Academies is conducting the study, which is mandated by Congress, on behalf of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The committee held its second data-gathering session Thursday in Washington.


Yasunori Yamanaka, manager of Tepco’s nuclear safety engineering group, said following the meeting that one of the key pieces of information that will be learned in the coming years is the location and condition of the core of nuclear fuel in the three reactors that experienced meltdowns. Tepco believes the uranium fuel of unit 1 at Fukushima I almost entirely melted its way through the bottom of the thick steel reactor vessel and poured to the floor of the containment structure, eating through a portion of the concrete floor of that area.

The company plans to use cameras and other surveillance equipment to determine how much of the core of units 2 and 3 remain in the reactor, Yamanaka said. The company believes almost half of the fuel in those units, which maintained core cooling longer, melted, he said. It may take more than five years before Tepco can determine whether the fuel in those units remains in the bottom of the reactor vessel or also fell to the containment floor, Yamanaka said.

Regarding Yamanaka’s statements:

  1. Tepco has admitted that their simulation shows the fuel at Reactor 1 not only burned through the pressure vessel, but came within 27 centimeters of leaving the containment vessel. Others have said they believe the fuel is outside containment. (Source: NHK)
  2. Tepco has admitted that reactors 1,2, and 3 experienced full meltdowns — not “almost half” at Reactors 2 and 3. (Source: CNN)
Published: September 7th, 2012 at 12:31 pm ET


Related Posts

  1. Washington Post: “No one knows what to do with Fukushima” — Scientific American: Plant is in “crisis mode”… fuel has melted through containers — Official: Corium may never be extracted — Gov’t suggests dumping it under Pacific Ocean February 22, 2016
  2. Reuters: Fukushima fuel melted through containment vessels and is “spewing radiation” — Nuke Expert: Fuel has “scattered all over the place” — Gov’t: Fuel may have burned out into environment — Tepco Official: Fuel could have flowed out “like lava in a volcano” (VIDEOS) March 15, 2016
  3. Caldicott: 50 years or more of highly contaminated water flowing into Pacific from Fukushima — Tepco VP not optimistic: “I have concerns” for long-term plan — Location of melted fuel a mystery (VIDEO) November 7, 2013
  4. Japan Times: “Deadly” radiation levels detected outside Fukushima containment vessel — “Details behind situation are unknown” — Officials unable to grasp location of melted nuclear fuel — “Impossible” to plan for decommissioning October 30, 2015
  5. Japan TV ‘News Flash’: Officials fear melted reactor fuel is now exposed at Fukushima — Tepco: We don’t know at this point if fuel is uncovered — Large drop in water level — Experts ‘struggling’ to find condition of nuclear cores, nothing is known for all 3 reactors (VIDEO) June 10, 2014

105 comments to Tepco Official in Washington DC: We don’t know location of melted fuel from Fukushima reactors

  • Anthony Anthony

    I'm glad they are in Washington. This is a step in the right direction.

    • omniversling

      "may not be known for five years or more, when important parts of the plant are safer to enter"


      Maybe 500 years from now…

  • norbu norbu

    A slow step, but a good one.

    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      And why? DC has been involved in the coverup of Fukushima since the beginning. Now TEPCO is admitting they don't know squat, and don't really plan anything for several years.

      There's nothing stating the US is going to jump in and help. Just more trivial crap.

  • Jebus Jebus

    And not one mention of #3 exploding sky high, either ejecting it's MOX stocked core or it's MOX stocked spent fuel pool, into the northern hemisphere's biosphere.

    Although I will need to see the #3 RPV wellcap still bolted on to believe it was from the SFP.

    Plutonium from Fukushima was detected in Europe!

    New Study: Aerosolized plutonium from Fukushima detected in Europe — Spent fuel indicated

    Radionuclides from the Fukushima accident in the air over Lithuania
    Activity concentration of (239,240)Pu
    One aerosol sample
    Collected from 23 March to 15 April, 2011
    Found to be 44.5 nBq/m(3)
    Activity ratio of (238)Pu/(239,240)Pu in the aerosol sample was 1.2, indicating a presence of the spent fuel of different origin than that of the Chernobyl accident


    • Jebus Jebus

      The worst possible forensic outcome for the nuclear industry, is that #3 RPV exploded.
      And they know that!

    • Atomfritz Atomfritz

      Please, it makes me sick to read again and again people attribute the plutonium found in Lithuania were Fukushima origin.

      Such makes people believe there were only Chernobyl and Fuku and no other plutonium releases.
      But this is just wrong and makes nuclear energy look less harmful.

      Please don't forget that the test was probably done at or near the former Ignalina nuclear plant.
      And now please look at this spill of 300 tonnes of highly radioactive sludge at Ignalina, which was attempted to cover-up:

      Thus the plutonium contamination found could even be Lithuanian home-made!


        fantastic article! Thanks Atomfritz…


          the real meat is towards the end of the article, which gets into the EU funding for the decommissioning of this cold-war-era plant. Then you start thinking of when the job was undertaken and if the EU is still in a position to allocate the balance of the funds. That radioactive sludge gets real murky once you dive into it…

      • Jebus Jebus

        What are your credentials to dispute this AF?
        Sure there have been many releases of radionuclides in the past. Many we don't know about.
        Citing past releases to discredit a supposedly scientific analysis of AIRBORNE Fukushima Radiation Fallout, smacks of a disinformation campaign, to minimize the severity of the fukushima disaster.

        From the abstract:

        "The activity concentration of (239,240)Pu in one aerosol sample collected from 23 March to 15 April, 2011 was found to be 44.5 nBq/m(3). The two maxima found in radionuclide concentrations were related to complicated long-range air mass transport from Japan across the Pacific, the North America and the Atlantic Ocean to Central Europe as indicated by modelling. HYSPLIT backward trajectories and meteorological data were applied for interpretation of activity variations of measured radionuclides observed at the site of investigation."

        I'm sure all the nuclear shills are just sick, about the negative exposure that the filthy nuclear industry has been getting lately…

        • Atomfritz Atomfritz

          This still doesn't exclude the possibility that another source could be responsible for the plutonium find, as it's a common nuclear reactor footprint.

          • JustmeAlso

            Another source.. could very well be, since plutonium is not uncommon to nuke reactors..

          • Time Is Short Time Is Short

            The military can identify what radioactivity came from where. There are identifying markers well understood by nuclear forensic teams.

            It's like being shot multiple times during a shootout. I don't really care which bullet came out of which barrel. I'd just like to get some good medical care.

      • JustmeAlso

        I have also heard the Chernobyl nuke disaster was a hoax..

  • PavewayIII PavewayIII

    "…The company plans to use cameras and other surveillance equipment to determine how much of the core of units 2 and 3 remain in the reactor, Yamanaka said…"

    Let me help you, Mr. Yamanaka:

    You probably need to find unit 3's RPV first – it's no longer in the building. Helpful clues: The unit 3 turbine building roof has a couple of holes that look suspiciously like 1) the neck of the drywell liner, and 2) the drywell cap. Take a ladder and get on the roof. If you see little black cylindrical pellets scattered about and your hair starts falling out, then you have successfully located some of the core.

    By the way, check out the debris on top of the smaller cap-shaped hole. Is that the secret Israeli stereoscipic IR camera? Grab that while you're up there.

  • TheWorldIsBlind

    Dear TEPFÜK,

    You know you are screwed when:

    1.) The admins of ENEnews can see through your lies (partial meltdowns LOL more like 100% melt outside containment for all 3 reactors)

    2.) You contradict yourself with senseless lies (When important parts of the plant are safer LOL the reactors at FUKU will never be safer, safe, able to be entered)

    3.) When you lie to Americans, we're going to rise up and Butt fûçk you when the public realizes the truth…


    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      <i>3.) When you lie to Americans, we're going to rise up and Butt fûçk you when the public realizes the truth…</i>

      Wow… I can understand your rage at TEPCO's deceit, but "…we're going to rise up…?"


      You *do* realize that the U.S. (until recently) supplied virtually all of the uranium to Japan, don't you? And that the U.S. – for years – has been training Japanese scientists right *here*? And you must know that the AEC has pretty much handed over any U.S. taxpayer-funded nuclear technology to the Japanese for free during the last few decades, right? And GE and Westinghouse have been sucking the Japanese electricity consumers dry for years for their overpriced, crappy reactors? And the U.S. government not only knows about, but has encouraged Japan – from the start – to produce and stockpile plutonium to build their own nuclear weapons? And you must also know that the government of Japan has been trying to keep ALL plutonium stockpiling / weapons development secret from Japanese voters for years?

      <yawn> Yeah, the American public should be turning off 'American Idol' and rolling their fat butts off the couch for the uprising time now to DEMAND the truth… after a quick refueling stop at McDonalds, of course.

      Save your outrage for the exact same lies from Exelon, the NRC and mainstream media if we ever have an accident right here in the good ol' USA.

      What? You were expecting OUR utilities and regulators to act differently? No chance…</yawn>

      • PavewayIII

        I would be very interested in your assessment of the scale of the disaster and its implications for Japan and North America, particularly west coast.


        • PavewayIII PavewayIII

          There are NO unusual implications – this has been, is and will continue to be 'business as usual' for the sociopaths at the top.

          Why would you think differently?

          • I'm referring to the scale of the releases

            I'm always interested in people's varied assessments of SCALE.

            I certainly don't think the corrupt technocrats and autocrats are going to act differently than they did with the financial crisis and the BP oil disaster.

            However, they (politicians and such) may not be able to hide the fukushima disaster given its scale.




            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              Sorry, majia – I misunderstood your question.

              I don't have any kind of informed opinion on scale – I rely on the opinions of smarter people that are gracious enough to post them.

              I can't begin to wrap my head around Fukushima at all. It's like the BP spill – it's more horrible than I could have possibly imagined. That is, until a day or two later when I'll read something else suggesting it's even worse.

              I would argue that 'they' have been doing a superb job of making Fukushima disappear *despite* it's scale. Dr. Goebbels would be so proud of TEPCO if he could see their work. Most people (personal experience) don't have any idea that Fukushima is still 'happening'.

              If you don't have exploding reactor clips on CNN anymore, then it must be over. I-131 in the milk? Naw – Junior's hair hasn't fallen out. Aerosolized plutonium? Never heard of it. Must be from al Queda – let's attack Syria and… uh, get that Bin Laden guy again! Tuna that glow in the dark? Ah, California enviro-kooks.

            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              Nice blog BTW, majia – bookmarked.

              I like to think (when I'm sober) that we're not quite a plutonomy just yet. That's clearly where this bus is headed – maybe the next stop or two. I was hoping someone would able to wrestle control away from the monkey driving the bus before then, but *he* bailed out a few miles back. I think he stole my iPhone, too.

              I think (when I'm not sober) that this can be avoided if people understand that the oligarchies, corporations and governments are always susceptible to a metasocial disease. That infection occurs after a certain level of dangerously ill sociopaths occupy the upper ranks of those organizations.

              It's too late to immunize – we blew that opportunity decades ago. It's pointless to talk the leaders into any sense of social responsibility – they are sick and incapable of empathy. You cannot shame them into it either because they really don't care what you think of them.

              We can change things, but not by repeatedly using efforts that are ineffective or fail or rely on the actions of other sick/evil organizations. Understanding the genesis of this evil (removed entirely from religious context) is crucial. Nobody seems to get that. I learned what little I know from Andrew Lobaczewski's book. He even gave it a catchy name: Ponerology – the study of evil <groan>. There's entirely too many big words in the book, and you will probably be put on a list if you buy it. Still worth the read.


            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              I didn't add the second </groan> – the forum software did. Bad habit of using pointy brackets from Pine or WordStar days – I'm sort of a geeze.

            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              Then the link gets truncated, too. [sigh]


      • Michele

        Congratulations on your comments which are the truth. All the people of America have to do to see how they have been continually manipulated is to remember the BP Oil spill and how the people and environment were treated. BP did anything that they desired even being in charge of the Coast Guard. Lying about the amount of oil coating the Gulf and even using chemicals to hide the oil despite its toxicity and banned use. How many rose up off their couches to demand justice??? Now we have a disaster in the Gulf States after Isaac and once again the protection goes to the industry. As to Fukushima, why it is so many thousand miles away and the nuclear waste will be diluted by the rain and ocean. No problems, keep them ignorant.

        • TheWorldIsBlind

          I am with every single comment made in respect to my original post.

          The American Government is the shadiest fü***s of them all!

          But the stereotypes phrased earlier to the American public is where I draw the line

          Im an exception – superfit – super pissed – anti nuclear – anti NWO – not brainwashed.

          I have faith that the anamolous American Public will rise up and take down big Nuclear…

          Maybe my wishes are set too high

          • nyarlathotep nyarlathotep

            The american government is no government at all… Let alone democratic. It is a select little "gentlemensclub", and one only sets foot in there if you are affiliated with one of the big corporations.

            They do not care about the people, nor about the future. They only care about making more money – money they already have so much that they can find no way to spend it…except through war.

            Adversely, they make MORE money because of war. It is a vicious circle, which will only end because of the drain they prove to be on the earth and its inhabitants.

            "Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money"

            And you can scratch fish from your menu already…

          • PavewayIII PavewayIII

            'Taking down big nuclear' is about as realistic as 'taking down big oil', 'taking down big pharma', 'taking down big banks', or 'taking down big government'.

            Say you could push a magic button right now and make any/all of the above happen. What then?

            There have ALWAYS been second-string sociopaths fighting tooth-and-nail to be at the top – one of them is sure to step right in. You're going to end up just swapping one sociopath for another if your only game-plan is to react after you figure out the current ones are rats.

            You're right to be pissed, but temporary, cosmetic 'solutions' fix nothing long-term. In fact, they usually end up unintentionally causing *way* more pain to the average schmoe instead of the big shots, then end up solving nothing anyway. Ask a Russian or anyone else from Eastern Europe.

            'Throw the bums out' is the cheap, plastic Wal*Mart solution. This is too important. I would rather go without *any* solution for the time being than waste time and energy on junk solutions.

            • kongrufus kongrufus


              "There have ALWAYS been second-string sociopaths fighting tooth-and-nail to be at the top – one of them is sure to step right in."

              Couldn't agree more! I already have a good idea about what happens in Europe when the SHTF and it doesn't look good 🙁

          • demo demo

            World is Blind, your wishes are not set too high. We have no choice but to try to get people to rise up. It's been done before. It's possible. Keep going for it pls.


        @PavewayIII: "…after a quick refueling stop at McDonalds, of course." I'm on the floor over here!!! That was a wonderful end-of-week treat!

      • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

        It gets worse, the deeper one looks…..

        United States Circumvented Laws To Help Japan Accumulate Tons of Plutonium

        Israel's Secret Illegal Nuclear, Biological And Chemical Weapons; via A Green Road http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/04/israels-secret-illegal-nuclear.html

    • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

      @TheWorldIsBlind : I'm not american , but in the punisching context i would not pick an activity that has the risk of being enjoyed by some of the recidivist subject's 😉 .

      • TheWorldIsBlind


        My mind must be spoken.

        I am SICK of the lies from Japan AND the American Government.

        Please kindly note that I am American, but I am NOT the American Government. I was simply born here ad allowed my freedoms – but I will not let my Government decieve me, and I will not see my homeland perish in radioactive Shït…

        • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

          We all share the same sickness here , we hear you , and the rest of the globe's population will follow pusched by "other" fast arriving sicknesses and consequences.
          Critical mass WILL be reached , in time or not remains to be seen, but it ain't looking good.

          • TheWorldIsBlind

            Its terribly sad the man-made chemicals disasters have been increasing over the last few years. Worse is that there really has not been any movement off this spoken of "couch".

            Why we (americans) decide not to persue action is beyond me.

            Either it will never happen or it will all go down ina stampede of fury.

            Let it be known that I will not be blinded from the truths.

            The World is Fücked..


            you gotta get real DID. The revolution – will – be televised…when they're ready to give us permission to have one. The last genuine revolution was kicked-off with the storming of the Bastille back-in 1789. Those who are 'managing' things will never allow that 'mistake' to happen again.

            Americans are unaware that only took eleven-percent of the its population was active in struggle for independence. Today, most Americans are waiting for someone else to step-up and take the bullet. They have little courage to accept the rigors of revolutionary struggle. If you doubt this, look at how many still think our problems will be solved within a voting booth! We they're bought-and-paid-for-whores, yet look how many 'Americans' will continue participating in these so-called elections.

            As it's been determined that humans are incapable of accepting the consequences of their actions, certain 'forces' are no longer waiting for this species to 'man-up'. They've decided it's time smother us in a steaming shit-filled diaper, of our own making…

            • Jebus Jebus

              These nucleocrats, shills, and trolls are just fighting for their filthy nuclear jobs with disinformation, lies and deceit. They want to keep their dirty cushion, at EVERYONE'S expense.
              While the wide awake few million and growing, mama and papa bears across this planet, are fighting for their live's, their children's lives, and their grandchildren's lives.

              I know who I'm bettin on…

            • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

              Yes AS , you are probably right , but don't underestimate the force of certain instincts that will kick in , we have 4 billion years of evolution
              down our spine , wich means to me a genetical echo of the instincts of every species that was in the bloodline directly before us then the next
              untill the beginning , and their smartnesses. And we were not only froggs to boil..
              And if your last sentence is right , that would also suddenly level the rules of the playfield no ?
              Sickness and natural disasters equally spread to all levels of society ? Masters, bankowners, industry's media and bodyguard/police/army/family } the same ? Money ? Trade value ? Hungry ? Stick and Stone ?
              If by then there is still the luxury option to go back to the garden and survive ourself and save some off the knowledge we have gathered despite everything as a species, is another question , especially because survival as a species would mandatory mean firstly the survival of a minimum off the planetary biomass that embeds us and feeds us and breathes us like a uterus a foetus . But we love making it kinda hard on
              ourselfes it seems. Some delussional selfimage dissorder keep popping up troughout some subcultures of mankinds short history. Must be a
              challence kind of thing..maintaining power burst…for some…i guess…they can't stop eating the uterus…no patience…and no sacrifice to holy..


                wonderful rant DID! I'd recommend an impartial investigation into the objectives of trans-humanism. All of your concerns are being addressed. We've been doing this for-far longer than four-billion years. Yes…your deepest suspicions are for the most part…valid…

                Gotta pull the plug on the machine…

                • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

                  Noted , just readed your posts in the Busbypluto thread about gentic history from an hour before mine, wich is how long i typed on this darn thing.

                  • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

                    Just saying i find it a funny coincidence that a few people here had their attention on the same subject (all those genetic memory systems) in different threads but around same time wich i just realised collective consciousness bzz lol nevermind… 🙂

    • Fury Fury

      ya wanna bet a dollar on each reactor as to wether or not any melted fuel ever left. I'd bet a dollar each that none of them melted through the reactor vessel.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Then flippin FIND IT..

  • norbu norbu

    Maybe they try looking where the sun doesn't shine!

  • Michele

    A PR trip to DC to give information that is already known by the leaders of government and the nuclear industry. When did the people of Bayou Corne realize that there was a toxic mixture underground?….@ one year after the guardians to their environment already knew. Now, that sludge may have entered the aquifers that support 12 million people. When will they have that information?

    This is taken from a Homeland Security funded report about the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plants:

    "Anything we can do from a policy standpoint that can reduce excessive public concern about an event has huge ECONOMIC BENEFITS." Gunderson has said in addition that the concern of the US government has been to avoid NEGATIVE publicity against the nuclear energy industry.

  • The 'details' of these events of what is known and not known is interesting and important, but what we really need to know is this…

    No mention of any ONGOING continued RADIOACTIVE FALLOUT and OCEAN contamination conditions.
    'OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS' or more…!

    No mention of how it's going to affect our food and water.
    'OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS' or more…!

    No mention of what mitigation efforts should be taken for children and pregnant women and everyone for that matter.
    'OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS' or more…!

    No mention of how the 'chain of life' has been broken and that DNA/chromosomes have been damaged and will have unknown effects for generations to come.
    …and will compound exponentially –
    'OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS' or more…!

    No mention or apologies for the suffering this has caused and the countless suffering of innocent life yet to come.
    'OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS' or more…!

    Maybe they should form a committee and perform a new study. [sarc]

  • PhilipUpNorth philipupnorth

    "It may take more than five years before Tepco can determine whether the fuel in those units remains in the bottom of the reactor vessel or also fell to the containment floor," Yamanaka said.

    Only residual fuel is left in reactors, containments, and basements of U1,2,&3.
    TEPCO won't find Coriums1,2,&3 in any of the three buildings, IMO.

    All three Rogue Nuclear Reactors left Reactors1,2,&3 soon after 311.
    All three Rogue Nuclear Reactors left Containments1,2,&3 soon after 311.
    All three Rogue Nuclear Reactors left Buildings1,2,&3 soon after 311.

    This is why the US must take over Fukushima cleanup. TEPCO either has no clue what happened there, or they are pathological liars. Where do they think the smoke pouring out of the ground is coming from?

    "Finding iodine also means that the underground coriums at Fuku are not hardening and cooling off, but heating up and continuing to be on the move, steaming whenever they encounter groundwater."

    • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

      Sadly Phillipupnorth, even if US took over, they would not do any better.. The US is Japan nuclear program.. and we are involved, and if it happened here it would be no different response or action..

      The US government would rely on their good buddy "the corporation" to know what they were doing, and only when it was too late, would they even step in..and then they wouldn't really know what to do either, why would they? plausible deniability.. can you say BP

      The real problem is that the industry has behaved recklessly, and has no idea how to control what they have started..on any continent… This is a pattern that the large corporation has engaged in for too long, and may just be the end of us.

      Really, manage the waste for 500k years??? Does that even sound reasonable? By who? know anybody who will be around then?? and we went forward with this technology anyway, knowing this?? Only explainable by GREED.

      PANDORA'S BOX = NUCLEAR FOR POWER No way to undo it.

      • PhilipUpNorth philipupnorth

        Cataclysmic: That BP was left in charge (when our Navy has a high degree of expertise working undersea, and might have made quick work of stopping the Gusher In The Gulf), tells you a lot about how the US government will handle the next nuclear meltdown. But TEPCO continues to maintain the myth that the cores are, more or less, contained inside the Buildings. This corporate orthodoxy means to me that nobody at TEPCO is doing any planning to control the coriums in the mudrock underneath Fuku. In the end, this will cost the Japanese their home islands, and their Pacific Seafood. The toll of Fuku radiation on the rest of the world is becoming more clear every day. The Japanese government's campaign to convince their people that radiation in their food is safe may succeed. But the Japanese people are growing restive, and are beginning to complain. Time for the government to fall (again). While TEPCO continues its inactivity at Fuku, the Pacific Ocean is dying right before our eyes. 🙁

        • Fury Fury

          If they are saying that the cores are still mostly in the reactor vessels it is because they have no evidence that they have melted through. You think they don't measure every type of radiation around there and calculate what is where? The only stuff that left the reactor vessels is what dissolved out when they ran seawater through them.

          • omniversling

            Re-post especially for @Fury:
            GE Mk1 reactors the control (hahahaha) rods come up from underneath, as they melted down with the fuel rods there would have been molten corium flowing down through the holes that the control rods pass though into the control rod drive cavity, quite probably enlarging the holes as it flowed.

            See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reaktor.svg

            At 2400-2800c corium burns through concrete at the rate of 5cm per hour (Gundersen estimates FukUp cores at 3500c) , and the base of the concrete dry well beneath the pressure vessel is about 8m as far as I can discover (anyone with better knowledge?). The time it would have taken the corium to burn through that thickness is about 160 hours. There are 24 hours in a day so 160 hours is 6.6666 days. There's one for the numerologists amongst us! Debbil's work for sure..
            So let's say that after the fuel to start melting following the main cooling system failure during the earthquake (not tsunami, earthquake that fractured the cooling pipes), within about a week the corium would have been into the ground. Providing of course the thermal power of the corium was not exhausted by the concrete as is passed through.


            anyone have better info/measurements/links?

            • omniversling

              Also @ Fury:

              "Also, Arnie Gundersen puts the temperature of corium closer to 3500C, so could go through even faster, and who knows how fast or far it may have gone through the rubble that FukuSteamer was built on…plus, how many fractures or cracks in the foundations now from hundreds of tremors since…does the rise of the tide now contact the coriums and create all the steam that is rising from the ground and between the reactors now?"

              See Knuckelchen's and Fuku1live's clips..samples:




              Some pics of what appear to be molten slag exiting building 2:

              Peace on Earth…

      • Fury Fury

        I like your first part. on your second part: Much will be learned from this and many safety improvements made.

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Someone in Washington (for political reasons) is asking "whats going on at daiichi" …and the plant guy has nothing to say. Waiting over five years to (even be able to get close enough) to the killer molten spewing blob thats steadily permeating the country of Japan, and our oceans.

    Steadily permeating, for years and years to come.

  • The Blue Light (who I believe is a physicist) posted this comment sometime back:

    The Blue Light. April 6, 2012 at 11:54 pm · Reply

    As I pointed out in another thread several physicists and I worked out how much ceasium137 is contained in spent fuel at Fukushima. We took into account average burn up of the fuel and decay since the fuel was removed from the reactors and several other factors.

    The estimates for the amount of ceasium137 that has been released into the environment so far has been independently calculated to range from 10 to 60 kilograms. The spent fuel on site contains between 12500 to 16300 kilograms of ceasium137. A more accurate figure was impossible to calculate due to a lack of available data from TEPCO.

    When all the other radionuclides are taken into account then life in places like Hawaii could become impossible, even a short term exposure could be fatal. This could also be true for any fallout hot spots in north america.

    Countries like the United kingdom, Denmark, Germany, Norway and Sweden which are connected to Japan by the northern jet stream would also be gravely effected.

    Within a year, global background radiation levels would rise by as much as a factor of thirty.

    This would truly be a global disaster.

    • PhilipUpNorth philipupnorth

      Majia: Many thanks for your work. We need more effort on ENEnews to calculate the rate of ongoing contamination from Fuku, and to project the human toll of contamination over time. I think the 1,000,000 excess death figure (from Arnie G) is very low. The toll in Tokyo alone is likely to be many times that figure. I share your concerns. And I am outraged at TEPCO's inaction.

    • Fury Fury

      Where is this fallout going to come from? Cesium can fly?? PLEASE quit assuming that just because there is an X amount of something at one place , that it can spread all over. There has to be a means of dispersion. There isn't any. just relax, everyone's safe.

      • Sickputer

        Fury sez…"just relax, everyone's safe."

        SP: That was the standard dialogue from the Nazis at Treblinka.

        Today it's the same story: Relax, no problem. Just smile and be happy.

        BTW: Cesium doesn't fly… It floats in the jetstream and lower winds, catches a ride in the ocean and in the muscles of fish. It attaches to exported items, especially food.

        Oh… And it's invisible. Big Brother doesn't even have to hide the gas chamber building because you are already inside it…our atmosphere.

        • omniversling

          Fury sez…"just relax, everyone's safe."…I don't think Fury has been a visitor to this site for very long…I think Fury is one of the very special individuals that is equiped with enough of a smile to go down to FukUp and throw bits of ejected fuel pellets back into the holes in the roof, a la Chernobyl…

          Fury = #1 of the Fukushima 50 (now 51)

          FukuSteamer = FukuSauna = Gas Chamber:

          HEY MR TEPCO-YOUR REACTOR NR 1 IS STILL LEAKING SOMETHING-DON'T U KNW? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLhb1W2lBm4&feature=youtu.be

          plus see previous post above for links to steaming hell…
          plus see today's enenews link: http://enenews.com/video-plume-rising-fukushima-reactors

          I say 'sod off' Fury…go do some real research before you come around trolling, then contribute to the debate. Thanks you.

          "Better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"

          • omniversling

            PS, having read the exchange below between Jebus and Bako, I'd like to amend that last comment, apologise to Fury and say:

            Welcome to the site Fury…if you spend some time going back through the past 18 months of posts, and especially the knowledge and references revealed in the comments threads, you'll be much much much wiser and possibly be able to present some links and knowledge that the rest of us, who spend our incredibly precious remaining time on earth privately researching and posting, can benefit from and share around.

            PPS. please forgive the impassioned outrage of some of the postors here, including myself, who are beside ourselves with grief, anguish and anger about the ecocide (for private profit)of our beautiful unique living lifeboat of a planet, and the premature demise of everything that that we hold dear/cherish/love/hoped for/worked our whole lives for/invested in the future for etc etc etc…

    • @majia
      September 7, 2012 at 3:58 pm
      One must also consider the Kushiro current and the Gulf stream apart from the jet stream:
      (the fish url and the reactor url)
      My work is based on the finding that the earth is one interconnected maze and the effect of a source of radioactive release will be felt in similar ways throughout the globe. On that basis the 477 PBq Sr90 released in the Northern Hemisphere killied 22.6 to 33.2 million Indian infants from 1945 to 1999.
      The Fukushima explosions released so far an estimated 1200 PBq
      of Sr90. Based on the above figure for infant mortality and on the figure of 8 PBq Sr 90 released by Chernobyl caused 579000 infant mortalities in India, I expect 85 million infant mortalities in India alone over the next 50 years, assuming that another 1200 PBq of Sr90 will not be released by a failed SFP at unit No. 4 of Daichi 1.
      Ref: http://www.holophi.ch/resources/Holophi-Special-Report-on-Fukushima-SFP-4-r.pdf

  • TheWorldIsFücked


  • 3C

    Who the hell is this National Academies review committee and do you mean to tell us that no one, no one on that committee asked the all important question WTF? Would love to have each of them, presenter and committee member alike go on-site and sit there
    until they find out – bet you it won't be anywhere near 5 years before they report back with an answer. If they don't report back we can determine the answer for ourselves.

  • Fury Fury

    in reply to :: Regarding Yamanakas Statements. That is only one simulation and still ONLY a simulation. Simulations are never 100% correct, but only show what could happen.. In this case the the simulation was done to show what might have happened in the worst case. Not necessarilly what actually happened here, only MIGHT have.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Good job Admin, you got 'em crawlin' out of the woodwork so we can swat at 'em with the facts… 🙂


      it's no longer a contest Jebus. Regardless of the disinformation and who's presenting it, reality will have the final word.

      At this point, those who argue (overtly or otherwise) for nuclear power are simply holding two mirrors up-to the other. We could all walk away and return to our former pet preoccupations and won't change the reality of what's happening one-iota.

      Personally, I love to observe the dis-info crowd at work. Lately, they're displaying a panic not seen in a long – long – time. (The liberation of Berlin in '45, comes to mind.) True. They're deceptive. But the revelations are coming down hot-n-heavy! Keep in mind, techno-babble only finds root in those who desire the preservation of the status-quot. The zeitgeist of this emerging age is one of self-less change and progress. Be patient with them all; the 'quickening' is almost upon us.

      Do so enjoy these last days of those who 'thought' they could impede the progress of the 'heavens'. They're a hoot!!!

  • moonshellblue moonshellblue

    I found the following in Discovery, things that make ya go hmmm
    "Bacteria can clean up toxins, oil spills and nuclear waste, essentially by eating the stuff. But until now nobody was quite sure how they did it. Gemma Reguera and her team at Michigan State University found that the key is a structure called the pilus, a hair-like appendage that acts like a wire.

    The bacteria, called Geobacter sulfurreducens, transfer electrons via the pilus to the metals that they feed off of. Transferring the electrons gives the bacteria energy. It also changes the ionization state of the metal, changing it to a form that precipitates out of water. A colony of Geobacter living near a pile of nuclear waste would extract the uranium, making it easier to handle and remove.

    That was all very well, and the electron transfer has even been proposed as a way to build biological batteries. But an outstanding question was how Geobacter kept the uranium (and other chemicals) in nuclear waste away from their cellular walls, where the waste could cause damage. To see what role they played it was necessary to get a bunch of bacteria to grow lots of them in a lab. Reguera's team did that by exposing the bacteria to much harsher conditions than they were used to, stimulating them to grow more pili.

  • moonshellblue moonshellblue

    Continued Discovery Magazine
    "What they found was that the pili act as a buffer between the bacteria and the metallic compounds. The pili are quite long relative to the bacteria, and form a conductive barrier. That barrier is also a big part of the reason Geobacter can live in environments that would kill many other organisms.

    NEWS: Humble Weed Could Feed The World

    The team published their work in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. In the paper they note that knowing how Geobacter species work makes it easier to come up with strategies to clean up toxic spills. It might even allow researchers to design tiny robots to do the job, or come up with ways to grow better toxin-eating bacteria.

    Photo: Geobacter cell (in orange) with the nanowires (in yellow) interspersed through the uranium (black material). Credit: Dena Cologgi and Gemma Reguera (Michigan State University).

  • john lh john lh

    Yes,I knew they do not know, every enenewser on this website knew since 3.11 last year.

  • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

    What happens when these bacteria get into people, to 'eat' the radioactivity inside of everyone?

    Will wires stick out of the skin, as some reports have already shown happening? Or is that the GMO foods, creating weird genetic monstrosities?

  • irradiatedinbako

    I actually signed on to say this this particular thread was one of the most fascinating and smart I've ever read on this site.

    But ENE has a serious lack of tolerance with users who express views contrary to the norm around here .. it lowers the credibility of this community I think that a more moderate view is immediately condemned as a pro nuke shill attempting to spread dis info or even a Nazi??

    It won't win folks to support the cause if they are still learning .. it is constantly dividing and nonproductive .. and it is always a good idea to debate without namecalling.

    If ENE can't tolerate new on topic opinions then this should be a closed secret society and not an open web source. Behind closed doors all can take the blood oath to the one approved opinion. And keep patting each other on the back for being so well in .. eerrr .. lockstep with each other.

    That's all from me tonite .. I shall retreat back into lurking. It is the one thing I really do not like about this site.



    • Jebus Jebus

      I'm sorry irradiatedinbako,
      but the nuclear industry does not produce a gentleman's debate, and the issues at hand are as serious as it gets in this world. I know that this is a fight, for my right, my childrens right, and my grandchildrens right, to NOT be irradiated anywhere.
      So I'll trash a quote of a recent infamous line.

      If youre worried about getting you're feelings hurt…
      Maybe nuclear debates are not for you…

    • demo demo

      thnx for saying that, Bako. namecalling does not serve our cause, which is the most basic of all living beings, survival of the species. because our cause is a basic instinct, enough people will come around to it, hopefully in time.

      • Jebus Jebus

        Sorry demo, not to offend, even though I agree with it, but this statement kinda conflicts with the above statement…

        "Do whatever it takes, including risking arrest, to get media coverage."

        But were supposed to be nice to those who lie and oppose the truth, while doing this? To not hurt any feelings?

        Most of the people attending OWS have exellent intentions, but the system, the "rulers", and the wizards pulling the strings behind the curtains, do not…

        lol, maybe I should stop my ranting before I burst into flames…

      • irradiatedinbako

        Agreed Demo .. thanks for the note.

        Peace all.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Let me just expand on the above statement of mine.
    Passivity is the one thing that the nuclear system in place depends upon to be successfull. Be kind to those who dispute the truth with lies. Disinformation is the tool that is used to placate those who would stand up to the lies. Calling a spade a spade is not politically correct anymore.
    Well I've been fucking irradiated for all of my 50+ years on this planet and I am not going to take the lies, disinformation, and deceit anymore. If that gets me kicked off this site, so be it. My feelings won't be hurt. That would just make my resolve to fight this nuclear madness stronger. I would just stand up and find another venue for my battle.
    Passivity is just the fear that got us into this mess in the first place. Those anti-nuclear activists of yesterday weren't afraid of getting their feelings hurt. They fought tooth and nail to stop the M.I.C. from turning nuclear weapons into the neofacist, politician lobbying, money gobbling, cancer causing, nuclear industry it is today.
    I say no more! No more passivity towards those who lie to attain wealth, those who lie to cover up, those who deceive to allow children to get cancer from their dirty industry.
    If you do not stand up for something, youre going to fall for anything. I don't care if I hurt the feelings of someone who lies to me in the light of truth. I'm done being nice.

    And I'm sorry if I offended anyone with a heart and soul…

    • irradiatedinbako

      @ Jebus .. your passion for the cause is worthy and noted and before this goes off course I hope you can understand the intent of my message.

      Please don't carry it to an extreme. I don't think the new user who posted to this thread is a shill or a Nazi; just a new user with a different and more moderate opine w regard to a projected map of radioactivity dispersal. I wasn't mentioning anyone specifically and in fact don't remembr the user names.

      I am not offended by this view even if I think it's right or wrong or wishful thinking and my point was simply that .. to immediately label and namecall is offputting and counterproductive to the cause. It has happened before on this site.

      I am not going to argue or defend my post .. if you want to make it a flame war .. that's up to you.

      • Jebus Jebus

        No worries bako,
        My post was merely a response to yours. I have good thick skin. The intent of my post is introduce the realization of what the anti-nuclear cause is up against. The opposing forces are not gentlemen. They do not use politically correct tactics. Their intent is to carefully and deceitfully make you believe you are wrong in your telling of the facts. Pulling out the be civil card, you hurt my feelings, works when the card holder has the house on their side. Telling you your ace in hand, is really a deuce, when you know it's an ace is the tactic of propaganda warfare.
        Anyone alive, awake, and with a functioning brain that just pop's onto this site, without a quick scan of the 190+ pages concerning this disaster, and then posting a call of bullshit to the general evidence presented, is either not using said brain and will never get it, or is a "technical support representitive" for the nuclear industry. A person using his brain will read first.
        The answer to this is communication to the ones who listen to the facts and truth logically with questions, but the ones who just call bullshit to every posting, without some sort of evidence to support that call, are suspect of ulterior motives IMO. That doesn't mean they are "representatives", just suspect.

        • Jebus Jebus

          A few good exchanges usually determine the fact. If they run off crying and hide, or ignore a challenge, then they probably are not going to bring any substance to the table anyways or are what they seem to be.
          What this awakening sorely needs is activists who challenge the lies. This movement doesn't need ghandi, flowers, and perfume. It needs people who will stand up for themselves, stand up for their children. It needs people to stand up for the truth that long lived manmade radionuclides are contaminating this only planet and the creatures that inhabit it. This modern society that we live in is not the logical, understanding, caring society that it is made out to be. If it was then we wouldn't be in this irradiated, cancer infested mess that we are in.
          And far, far less little innocent children, would be dying from mature adult cancers and lymphomas.
          We wouldn't have 2000 nuclear missiles, at the ready to annihilate everything back to the precambrian era…

          • Jebus Jebus

            And if anyone needs a reference for my mantra, this should take care of it.


            You'll note that I was the one who was called an idiot in this thread. I did not get butt hurt over it, I countered with the truth. I stood up for myself. Yes, I bitchslapped back.
            Each and everyone of us knows who we are and the truth of our convictions. Sometimes we are wrong. Get over it. Being wrong is right sometimes, it's how you know when you are truly right. It's how you learn. Some are never wrong and never learn.
            But the point is, don't be passive in your convictions, be passionate instead. Because the opposing force that you are up against is very passionate about their deceit and lies. They are counting on you to be passive.

            • Sickputer

              Yes, that was another drive by shooting Jebus…glad you didn't get mad.

              I have been fairly competent in Usenet the past 23 years for my ability to argue firmly, but without rancor. Lately it has become tougher with such a touchy issue in Japan.

              I regularly go back and re-read some old postings to refresh my knowledge and sometimes I see I was an ass. Not often, but at times I misunderstood people's intentions.

              But I can tell everyone this…I would never write anything I wouldn't say to your face if this forum was a conversation instead of a written discourse. I may be wrong at times, but I believe in an old saying:

              “Remember these words when I am dead. First be sure you're right, then go ahead.” Davy Crockett

              However another of his sayings I can't follow…

              "You can all go to hell; I will go to Texas”

              SP: Because I'm already there. *;-) (Texas that is).

              • Jebus Jebus

                SP says,
                "Yes, that was another drive by shooting Jebus…glad you didn't get mad."

                I think I feel the bit o sarc…
                One can be mad and still laugh at you to boot…
                To your face is the rule…

                "First be sure you're right, then go ahead."

                My old service manager used to say that, as I embarked on a service call, to repair a piece of equipment, that I knew nothing about, at the time…

                I'm young enough to have been an ass many times in my life, but I'm old enough to learn from it still…

                Comprehending anothers view is something to always strive for.

                Perception is a personal thing.

                The balance between them is is rarely even…

                And on the last note, are you sure of the difference? 🙂

          • irradiatedinbako

            @ Jebus .. I teach kids. My music teaching profession is I teach kids from the 2nd grade up to college plus.

            I don't treat the little ones the same as the teenagers .. as the college kids.

            I am strict .. but I understand the different levels of learning.

            Newbies deserve the chance to be newbies ..

            I don't make rules until they have had the necessary foundation and understanding. I **know** I am a good teacher of something almost as difficult to grasp as nukes.

            So I think we get each other perhaps .. yes??

            Sometimes a little more kindness patience and benefit of the doubt creates a better result long term ..

            And there is no one formula that fits for each student. I find it necessary to be creative and flexible while teaching.

            JMO of course.

            Peace and well wishes.

            • Jebus Jebus

              I agree wholeheartily, to a point and yes, everyone is different, fortunately.

              But, the overwhelming majority of the folks who land here for whatever reason, are not children. They are supposedly adults, who have travelled up through the years of tender loving care and nurturing. Being scared away by a challenge to their views, on a blog, is passivity to the definition. They should have been raised better.
              People gotta face it and man up, cause the world today is a stark harsh reality. It is blasted at you each and every night and day. The majority of youth today is so unprepared. We, in the US, do not realize or appreciate how well off we have it comparitively.
              In the days of my fathers youth, the structure and the realities present were not held back for fear of hurting johnny's feelings. They are said to be the greatest generation. Not sure, but they were more prepared for anything that was thrown at them. In those days the bully soon learned his lesson. Have the dangers of the world really lessened that much as to be so soft on the childrens feelings, to let many of them be so unprepared for the harsh realities that await them around every corner? To allow them to be so disassociated from the real forces at work against their ability to thrive? Not all, but too many. The media piper is much to blame, but we have not taught our children very well, collectively. The coming decades will be the litmus test. I will witness…

              • Jebus Jebus

                Don't get me wrong, my glass is still half full and the future still looks bright enough to wear shades, but if things go bad and the shades are to protect your eyes from the flash, then these young adults are in for their own short lived awakening…

  • demo demo

    passivity=bad. communication=good. driving away someone w/ a heart/soul who doesn't yet quite get it=bad, especially if they re newbies and might join us. expressing righteous anger constructively/strategically=good. dumping on a newbie=bad. expressing anger @ the system and its nuke profiteers to vent/get it off our chest=good. accusing a newbie of being a shill=bad cuz maybe "Fury" just hasn't read that much yet and will come around w/ more info. correcting dis/misinfo=good. even shills may come around. afterall, their kids'll and grandkids'll suffer, too. we need to build a movement fast w/ large numbers of diverse people. contrarians are good practice for us. this site actually has excellent communication practices generally imo. if we start making a real difference, shills may try to sow division/discord/distrust to drive participation down.

  • demo demo

    when provoked–whether by shills or uninformed newbies or people who're upset re the crisis–let's try to correct dis/misinfo in a matter of fact manner and good humor w/out name-calling or accusations that could drive good people away. rage is fully understandable given that TWIF, and expressing it can be strategic or can be destructive. risking arrest in a dignified NVCD manner can garner public sympathy and curiosity and help our movement grow. randomly lashing out at innocent people or small businesses, rather than strategically choosing a relevant target to occupy, can scare recruits and turn the public against us.

  • Sickputer

    Demo and bako…thanks for reminding me to phrase my words more carefully…Treblinka is a topic I have studied and taught about for over 45 years. I did not directly label Fury as a Nazi…but the words used by him were were standard fare for the Nazi guards at Treblinka, many of whom were working class people thrust into horrible genocidal roles by persuasive leaders like Hitler.

    Fury also writes:

    "Get a book and calculate the half-lives and figure out what amount of radiation, gamma, x-ray, electrons, is being emitted now. FARRR less than at the beginning. another few months and they will be cleaning the inside up."

    SP: If they do get to cleaning inside the wrecked reactor units in less than a decade then it will be a miracle. Never can tell though…the Olympic Committee chooses in exactly one year who gets the 2020 games between Tokyo, Madrid, and Istanbul and it might become human wave time to meet government expectations.

    If they do clean this mess up in 12 months I will be very surprised. But I have a feeling Istanbul is going to get the nod on September 7, 2013. However, I have a feeling the IOC will act like Japan has a shot at winning up until the very final decision.

    Peace out…there is still Great Madness in Tokyo.

    • irradiatedinbako

      @ SP .. madness indeed.

      We all have lots to learn don't we?

      Thanks for writing everyone .. peace all .. there is a common goal.


    • omniversling

      There is no equipment available to withstand the radiation being emitted from U's 1,2 or 3. No material that humans have made (up till now) is durable enough to shield the robotics and electronics from the radiation inside the lava domes. Humans cant approach them, nor will they for 100's (?) 1000's (?) of years. During which time the buildings will have crumbled to dust, along with the remaining rods and blobs.

      And even if they could, where would they put the rubble and waste?

      FukUp can't be stopped, cant be controlled, cant be fixed. A meltdown is forever, and humans have not only failed the intelligence test, but will probably not get a second chance at it.

      Even the enthusiasts for trans-humanism will not find it easy in 2045 if the planet's uninhabitable by all the technicians and specialists that will still be required to do all the donkey work and keep the systems running for the elite to download their brains into cyber-bodies: http://2045.com/

      However, it may be the only option we have left, if women around the world decide it's to risky to have aborted or mutated children. Excellent population control, eh? See what depleted uranium munitions are doing to stop the population in the Middle East from exploding.

      If I was more cynical, I'd posit that the trans-human camp would be thrilled if their tech was the only vehicle to the future…and if air could be privatised and charged for, it would be..(search chemtrails)…

      peace on earth