Published: March 9th, 2013 at 5:07 pm ET
|
Title: 10pm News Replay
Source: WBRZ News 2
Date: March 8, 2013 at 11:00p ET
h/t FREEDOMROX
Anchor 1: […] Another underground cavern could collapse.
Anchor 2: […] Experts worry another sinkhole could develop. It’s because a second salt cavern could fail a few hundred feet from this sinkhole in Assumption Parish. That would double the size of the disaster going on for months.
Mike Schaff, resident: It’s probably going to take out Highway 70. The sinkhole is going to get probably 2 and half times the size it is now. Then you could look at loss of life.
Brittany Weiss, reporter: And that’s a reality that people on Bayou Corne may have to deal with, a second salt cavern could collapse. It’s forcing the company blamed for all this to go back on its word, saying things aren’t stable 2,500 feet below the ground. […]
A Texas Brine employee tells News 2 the road leading to a relief work site stared to dip months ago, indicating the problem below their feet was big. The employee says there’s a chance the salt cavern will cave in.
UPDATE: WBRZ RETRACTS FALSE STATEMENTS SAID TO BE FROM “TEXAS BRINE REP”
Full broadcast here
Published: March 9th, 2013 at 5:07 pm ET
|
The...
sending...
Time to put pressure on Occidental Chemical Corp. and Texas Brine, LLC now! BUYOUTS FOR ALL AFFECTED!
Then please encourage local officials to warn the Lake Verret area that the water there is toxic and needs to be tested..
Report Comment
Ok, before we get into the Gulf of Mexico/Continental Shelf issues, how about let's take a look at the Salt Dome itself, and just what Golden Gate actually knew about the Salt Dome after the 2007 3 D Survey, shall we?
"Napoleonville is a shallow piercement salt dome traversed by numerous growth faults, both parallel and radial to the dome."
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120113/pdf/423rd6pcrj913j.pdf
From there the mystery is solved… really it's not hard, just read the geological survey…
Report Comment
Now, let's turn as eye towards the Gulf. It seems documents have emerged from as far back as 1976, and as usual at the Louisiana Sinkhole Bugle via it's contributors.
DOOR POINT: A BURIED VOLCANO IN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA
TRANSACTIONS-GULF COAST ASSOCIATION OF GEOLOGICAL SOCIETIES Volume XXVI, 1976
Jules Braunstein and Claude E. McMichael
An exploratory well, the Shell Oil Company, State Lease 3956 No. 1, Offshore St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana, was completed in 1963 at a total depth of 8538 feet. The last 1300 feet of hole was cored and drilled through volcanic material of Late Cretaceous Age.
http://lasinkhole.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/door-point/
There is also a treasure trove of information contained within the comments section. ENENEWS should pick up on this, for it details the risks underneath our most energy producing State.
"It's a madhouse…I can hardly get next to myself.." Motor City Madhouse, Ted Nugent
Report Comment
Freedomrox
As Golden Gate was not going to be drlg in or on the dome nor partners with Tx Brn. The condition of the actual dome was no concern to Golden Gate..
Report Comment
@Thad, in all the time I have known you…that was the most irresponsible thing I have ever seen you type. The value of the information contained is far greater than what their oil drilling intentions were.
If you actually read, instead of just make a blanket statement, then they informed the reader of overhangs, updips, irregularities, ad infinitum. It is a wealth of information, and you just blow it off because they are drilling for oil?
Un-flippin-believable!
Report Comment
FreedomRox
Full frkn stop! "-you just blow it off because they are drilling for oil?" -NO- " THEY just blew it off because they are drilling for oil–"
Was not saying what I would do, but stating what a company which has only their own self interest at heart would do. Their only concern is production from their own leases. How best to locate their wells to draw as much from their leases and ajacent areas. As the Oxy#3 area was basically on the opposite side of the saltdome it was of no inportance to GOLDEN GULF. IF they even noticed the condition of the saltdome in the Oxy #3 area– it would be stay quiet and if the problem developes then it mean cheaper leases on that side of the saltdome.
Report Comment
I tend to doubt that it's cavern #1 that is causing the roads to tilt. First, the sinkhole is above the dome cap, tilting up from the rim of the cap to above the cap. For cavern #3 to be involved as stated, it would also have to tilt in the same manner. Second, cavern #3 hasn't shown but 28% of its volume on the surface thus far. It has a long way to go. Third, the direction of the tilt is toward #3, not #1 at the edge of cap.
Not saying that it's impossible for #1 to collapse, especially if they dumped fracking sludge down it as well. But from what I'm seeing, it's just #3 progressing with a little help from gravity.
Report Comment
dosdos
Were you able to find documentation for fracking sludge put in any of the cavern?
Report Comment
Thad, dosdos, is technically correct. As will be proven shortly. Remember this post. It will serve you well in the future, but as for Oxy Geismar 1? It is toast if nothing is done very quickly. It can be arrested, because all of this is a slow-motion collapse, (always has been), and much of it set in motion years ago, but it could be arrested….
Report Comment
freedomrox
Someone says nuclear waste, I comment there is none documented–
you disagree and say wait for it—
Someone says fracking sludge, I comment there is none documented–
you disagree and say wait for it —
Waiting
Report Comment
dosdos.."I tend to doubt that it's cavern #1 that is causing the roads to tilt."
Agreed, and that's also why I said I doubt a Texas Brine rep told the reporter Brittany Weiss that they've known for months there were going to be problems with Oxy #(1) because of what the road was doing. It either wasn't a TB rep, she misunderstood, or they were referring to Oxy # (3).
Report Comment
MY GUT FEELING AND I DO NOT THINK ANYONE CAN PROVE ME WRONG BP AND SINKHOLE CONNECTION AND THE ONGOING GULF DISASTER.
BP FRACTURED THE GULF OF MEXICO UNLEASHED MILLIONS MAYBE BILLIONS OF BARRELS OF CRUDE OIL IN THE GULF OF MEXICO. THE OIL WAS UNDER PRESSURE THAT NOTHING MAN COULD DO WOULD STOP THE DISASTER. The high pressure (800 PSI) and high temperature (400 F) crude from the BP deep well blowout has been seeping into and melting an enormous deposit of solid methane hydrate beneath the Gulf of Mexico. The methane hydrate expands by a factor of 160 to 1.THERE IS VIDEO OF THE OIL ACTUALLY BURNING AS IT CAME OUT OF A BROKEN PIPE HAT WAS VIDEO TAPED. NOW BP WHAT THEY SHOWED YOU ON TV WAS A LIE THEY DECORATIONS WERE ACTUALLY NOT THE SPILL ITS SELF BUT A MOCK UP THE REAL SPILL WAS 10 MILES AWAY FROM SOURCES THAT HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT THE DISASTER IT IS ALL OVER THE INTERNET. MAYBE ONE DY WE WILL SEE THE TRUTH. EVERYONE FROM OBAMA TO BP IS LYING AND COVERING UP A DEPOPULATION PLAN TO KILL EVERYONE AND THE SEAFOOD'S IN THE GULF. JESSE VENTURA AND THE MONEY THAT IS BEING TRANSFERRED. THE SPILL IS NOT OVER WITH BY A LONG SHOT. SEE MORE NEXT POST
Report Comment
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/239/102/365.jpg
Report Comment
markww
The bottom hole pressure of BP/MC252 was 12,850 psi
Jesse Ventura-LOL- Conspiracy Theory -NEVER Conspiracy Proven.
De-population event- LOL- we are still here, Seafood – LOL- 2012 was record year better than before BP
Report Comment
JESSE VENTURA SAYS LAST PART OF HIS VIDEO BILLIONS TO RELOCATE EVERYONE IN La. AND THERE ARE DOCUMENTED PRESSURES UNDER THE GULF OF 50,000 PSI THAD READ THIS
50,000 to 100,000 PSI
The intractable problem is that this methane, located deep in the bowels of the earth, is under tremendous pressure. Experts agree that the pressure that blows the oil into the Gulf waters is estimated to be between 30,000 and 70,000 pounds per square inch (psi). Some speculate that the pressure of the methane at the base of the well head, deep under the ocean floor, may be as high as 100,000 psi — far too much for current technology to contain. The shutoff valves and safety measures were only built for thousands of psi at best. There is no known device to cap a well with such an ultra high pressure.
Markww
Report Comment
Also, in all reports they continue to suggest that what ever is happening is coming from UNDERNEATH the salt domes. I still say that as the DWH event ran for months and now the news of floor cracks in the gulf that this whole area is about to open up.
Google Maps have this entire area as a mass of salt domes. If that is so and these domes are eroding from underneath then it is logical to expect that to continue. Weakened areas will continue to bubble up as the bottoms of their domes are eaten by the fresh sea-water that is making its way underground and as this happens the area will collapse.
Report Comment
markww
"BILLIONS TO RELOCATE EVERYONE IN La." Three years after and not a single person evacuated because of the BP disaster. You know that Louisiana has not been evac'd, you're posting on a forum dealing w/ Bayou Corne which is in southern La
You failed to post the link– but I have worked the GoM and other areas of the world and no where is there pressures 50,000- 100,000 psi that can be reached by drlg today–Simple for the overburden to contain a pressure of 50,000 psi it would require the pressure to be 40,000-46,000 ft underground.
You "quote – experts agree" WHAT EXPERTS??
The BOPs did not fail due to pressure– AVAILABLE WITH STANDARD RATING UP TO 20,000 PSI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_preventer
Bottom section explains BP/MC252 BOPs failure
"On 20 March 2011, DNV presented their report to the US Department of Energy.Their primary conclusion was that the rams failed to shear through the oil pipe and seal it because it has buckled out of the line of action of the rams."
Read and learn about BOPs
Report Comment
When DWH happened they said the Well was at 5K feet and went an additional 18K feet. So that was 4 miles Below the Sea-level. I asked as news said the Well Casing was cracked what the danger now was as Pressure from sea-water eroding this salt dome in DWH that it would undermine the coastal area and perhaps cause a New Madrid fault line problem. I received a reply that my concerns would be sent to a geologist and answered. Never was. Sent 3 more and they were never answered.
In one field in Texas over 4,000 wells were using this sea-water injection to force oil to the top. What is clear is the DWH ran for months and that sea-water at great pressure for 4 miles down eroded the salt dome they drilled into and when salt is liquified it erodes even faster. (Think of a pin-hole in a Submarine and the amount of water that would be forced in.)
We are not told the full extent of this story and I think that is why the Navy has that future Area map of the gulf showing all those areas GONE!
Report Comment
Maj.WilliamMartin
The BP/MC-252 well was in 4,900 ft water and drld to 13,000 below seabed — that much is right.
There was no salt dome drld or involved. The well flow was oil 80% and 20% gas- there was no split casing– no flow of seawater or salt water. It is over 90 mi to Bayou Corne/ Napoleanville saltdome– over 500 mi to the NMF.
This data sounds like the noise put out just after the blow-out started- when every talking head that could get in front of a TV cam was an expert–and the only knowledge they had of the oil field was putting gas in their car
Report Comment
Really Thad? Get your facts straight Mr. know it all of everything of everything. You say that, and I quote from your post above "There was no salt dome drld or involved". You sir, are dead wrong about that. If you don't think that the saltdome was INVOLVED then you are living on another planet. Read this and the entire article if you like.
The permeable contact aureole of the salt dome or an intrusive dyke, obviously added to the problem. It is like having a “U-tube” counterbalancing the mud column inside the well. No wonder the drillers described the Macondo well as a “Hell Well”. Compare this nightmare scenario with the Texaco Rigel well which was drilled safely just a km away from the salt dome. BP’s management should have correlated the drilling problems with the geological structure. If they had done that (which is the gist of this article), they would have realised that the Macondo well was just a disaster waiting to happen. They should have taken the responsible way out by abandoning the well before reaching the reservoir. By failing to do that, they were just postponing the inevitable. The “giant aquifer system” was fully charged and just waiting for any mistake to trigger the blowout. No wonder the directors and top executives were rushing to sell off their shares after the 11 March incident, in anticipation of the worse to come. Perhaps BP should stand for “Before Public-interest” for the blatant manner in which personal profits come before the welfare of the
Report Comment
environment or the public.
Entire article here
http://oilspilltruth.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/why-the-bottom-kill-cant-work-the-cover-up-is-beyond-criminal/
Report Comment
TM 2020
LOL- THE BOTTOM KILL DID WORK- DUH!
Report Comment
Thad the manuipulator and twister of truths. You said the salt domes were not affected by the BP blowout. I proved you wrong. I said zilch about any top kill. You can't stand it when someone else is right and your wrong. You need to come off that pedastal of high and mightyness. Takes more of a man to admit he was wrong than to lie and minipulate your way around the truth.
Report Comment
TM2020
Do not draw attention to who does not know zilch -you will have everybody staring at you.
Where is the link for the entire article, the bit you posted read if written by some wanna bee important.
Now listen closely there are records and documents a plenty to verify. THE WELL WAS SUCESSFULLY DRILLED AND CASED. BP lost the well by making negligent decisions in final cementing and setting of plugs–AFTER THE WELL WAS SUCESSFULLY DRLD. And the kill well was also sucessfully drld–
you said zilch about a top kill– surprise, surprise — I said zilch about a top kill– But you did post
http://oilspilltruth.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/why-the-bottom-kill-cant-work-the-cover-up-is-beyond-criminal/
and I did reply
LOL- THE BOTTOM KILL DID WORK- DUH!
So you have proved nothing–
Report Comment
Former geoengineering specialist speaks more about global massive methan releases:
Breathe deep : a gathering plume of doom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0ziwfJqtl4
Report Comment
But what if, in the language of "parse,".they told us they said early on…Oct. or Nov. that #3 was filling from the bottom up, and saying the floor was "rising" (last number I saw was 65. Ft. In Dec.), which many reinterpreted, explaining that what they "actually" meant, was filling from the side from the big Humm. Either way, I don't see how back before the rains…in Aug., all that water became involved in what I guess is being described as massive amounts of Methane/oil, being lighter than water…forced the water down, dissolved the salt…water that we assumed was bayou water hiccuping and belching its way into melting the sinkhole. But, see, then why would Oxy 1 have been compromised, as well? Also from the middle? from the floor? what action drives them both independantly…so much so that we've been seeing massive seismic activity along Route 70 for months. (Did it seem kind of interesting to anyone else that thats where they placed 3/4 of the monitors?) Did Oxy 3 and 1 coincidentally suffer the same mid level breach? How did enough water leach into Oxy 1 to start causing massive seismic activity months ago? I have heard it described as shaped like a "space ship" (whatever that means),,,and I'm asking you to tell me if that shape is correct. If so, that would mean disk shaped with a dome on top…so the side of it abutting Oxy 3 would present a narrow or small area of entry into Oxy 1…but this has been causing massive seismic activity for months?
Report Comment
irhologram
In the cavern there is no empty space what is not sedinent filled is full of brine. So when more sediment slides into the cavern the brine goes out to fill the space it came from. Basically trading places–
The oil and gas percolates up through the brine. The brine being saturated does not dissolves the salt.But there is thought that there is formation waters coming up with the oil and gas–
The intial breaching of Oxy#3 was mechanical due to over mining – removing all the salt from the outside wall.It is not known at what point the breach originated but it was thought to have started at the bottom and then continued upward as cavern filled.
Report Comment
SINCE WE KNOW THE METHANE UNDER THE GULF IS BEING HEATED UP IT IS MELTING AND FINDING ITS WAY UNDER THE EARTH IN CHANNELS MOVING MANY MILES AWAY FROM WHERE IT WAS ONCE LOCATED.THERE WERE MOUNTAINS OF FROZEN METHANE THAT STARTED THIS CHAIN REACTION. THIS MELTING METHANE AND GAS IS CAUSING POSSIBLY THE BOOMS IN AMERICA THAT PEOPLE ARE REPORTING AND FLASHES OF LIGHTS AND EXPLOSIONS EARTHQUAKES SHAKES AND RATTLES AND UPHEAVALS. THIS IS HAPPENING BY THE METHANE MOVEMENT AND ROCK STRUCTURES FROM THE FRICTION AND THE HEATING OF THE ROCK BEING DISPLACED.THIS IS CALLED FRICTION ROCKS CRACK AND GRIND AND RELEASE HEAT SPARKS AND JAMS WHICH HAVE TO BE RELEASED. THERE HAVE BEN REPORTS THAT NOW ONLINE VIDEOS AR SHOWING METHANE BUBBLING UP AWAY FROM THE LARGE SINKHOLE IN BAYOU CORNE. THE UNDERGROUND SALT DOMES MIGHT ALL COLLAPSE DUE TO WATER SEEPING INTO THE SALT SYSTEMS FROM THE GULF AND THE UNDERGROUND DISPLACEMENTS WE SEE AT THE SALT DOME,THIS IS A UNKNOWN FACTOR,AT THE SINKHOLE.EARTH QUAKES AND TREMORS ARE BEING FELT ALL ALONG THE NEW MADRID FAULT SYSTEM. A MAN WAS KILLED FOR HIS FOR KNOWLEDGE REPORTING THE GULF DISASTER,AND THE COVER UPS THAT HAVE GONE UN-CHALLENGED
IS ALL OF THIS PROVABLE MAYBE YES, IS IT OVER WITH NOT BY A LONG SHOT. COUNTLESS LIVES ARE N GREAT PERIL FROM THE SINKHOLE IF PEOPLE DO NOT GET ON THE SAME PAGE AND QUIT TRYING TO COVER THEIR REAR ENDS. STOP LOOKING AT THE MONEY THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL AND TRY TO ACCOMPLISH A GOAL OF SAVING HALF THE UNITED STATES…
Report Comment
http://cdn.hsmemes.com/2012/3/29/0946ca57759a90ea0727e014b9a5e73b.jpg
Report Comment
Unbridled passion causes yelling. I have no problem with yelling.
I detest obfuscation and lying to cover…anything.
Report Comment
markww
" IS ALL OF THIS PROVABLE MAYBE YES " LOL 'MAYBE" is no proof.
Is there anything you can prove–?
Report Comment
It seems that…their studies showed the salt dome as..a rather straight colunm….I think now they believe it is mushroom shaped….which would make some of the fetch materials outside the dome..under the mushroom cap.
..complicating the disturbed area)
This would also make their calculations of OXY 1 closer to the outside of the dome.
At the moment..I don't have the distance..from one cavern to another..but this distance…can't be too far..
A disturbance in one cavern ..eventually..will affect the others..54. I have heard the number to be in the Napolean Salt Dome.
Report Comment
If 900′ (previously 875′) feet away at the well head, as reported, then we are left with only 325-400 ft. between the two caverns, at marginally varying depths.
http://freedomrox.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/louisiana-sinkhole-are-more-caverns-at-risk/
Report Comment
Hwy..70 ..a build up… 950 approx. from the sinkhole..
In the old 'wildcatting days'..it was said some of the old timers could feel the oil.
I think 'it' hasn't built up a 'good run' yet.
Report Comment
http://rt.com/news/asteroid-earth-flyby-saturday-028/. And they only saw it a week ago? The hard thing to take is that this football sized + an additional 100' long and an additional 59' wide meteor was just discovered a week ago. The reason this may be on topic is the spate of recent meteors has mad me rethink munitions expolsions, hours apart in NW LA and Alabama…what were eventually discounted as having been ignited by meteors. It would seem to be rather a coincidentally implauible direct hit…unless shock waves may have excited the munitions? How would shock waves relate to chemical concoctions in the air and releases into the sinkhole and swamp?
Report Comment
Louisiana: Huge 7000 ft. Mushroom Cloud – Underground Bunker Explosion?
Oct 20 2012
http://www.wrecklessfaith.com/louisiana-huge-7000-ft-mushroom-cloud-underground-bunker-explosion/
Image of the object..similiar somehow..
The'meteor' set off the METHANE in LAKE BISTINEAU.
Camp Minden 911, Calif. meteor explosions, methane links
OCTOBER 22, 2012
http://www.examiner.com/article/camp-minden-911-calif-meteor-explosions-methane-links
Meteor falls into frozen lake in Russia….
Louisiana..a test perhaps?
Report Comment
HotR
The "Examiner" is a joke- claimed that methane migrated from Bayou Corne up the Mississippi alluvial aquifer 240 mi to Camp Minden– which is NOT on the Mississippi alluvial aquifer– but on a different one — the Sparta– and unconnected.
And there it was ignited by a meteorite shower– the author missed the real, bigger story– the explosions were illegally stored ordinance– part of 600 million pounds. She no longer writes for the "Examiner"
Report Comment
Thad
By: Deborah Dupre October 22, 2012
Camp Minden 911, Calif. meteor explosions, methane links
OCTOBER 22, 2012
http://www.examiner.com/article/camp-minden-911-calif-meteor-explosions-methane-links
***Thad quote: "She no longer writes for the "Examiner"
By: Deborah Dupre March 1, 2013
Obama fundraiser, BP case top lawyer client fraud investigated
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-fundraiser-bp-case-top-lawyer-client-fraud-investigated
~Why claim she no longer works for the examiner as a way to discredit her?~
Report Comment
MaidenHeaven
Not effort to dis-credit– tried to pull up one of her articles end of Feb and page reply no longer available. Ask around was told she had gone to 'beforeitisthenews' looked and found her there. Must have gone back to the "Examiner"?
No need to dis-credit, you read the article? Like to research- there's "HAARP cause Japan earthquake/tsunami/reactor meltdown, then check out the lawsuits.
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2011/09/02/beware-of-deborah-dupre-and-delia-labarr
Report Comment
Hi Heart of the Rose. Japan has begun drilling and exploration for methane hydrate as an alternative and replacement of lost nuclear energy. Another country attacking the frozen methane hydrate layers that are the root cause of all the excessive methane releases around the world now, especially in Southern Louisianna. Here is a DOE/Conoco Phillips joint venture methane hydrate exploration video from alaska that explains methane hydrate well. Seems like it would be ok to do this kind of methane hydrate exploration to me because of the hard frozen containment surrounding the exploration areas would keep the residual methane releases in place. It's the tampering, drilling and destruction of methane hydrate layers under the oceans that are creating the methane havoc we are witnessing. The much warmer and liquid environment of the ocean does not have the safety barrier of the frozen tundra to keep it contained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfgnaeBPZKY
Report Comment
Hi..time machine 2020..I agree entirely.
The money spent in the drilling and exploration for methane hydrate could be well spent in development of alternative energy production methods…and not incur the tremendous dangers and consequences…of drilling to such depths..and losing control.
Did Deepwater methane hydrates cause the BP Gulf explosion?
Strange and dangerous hydrocarbon offers no room for human error
May 20 2010
"Methane hydrates are volatile compounds — natural gas compressed into molecular cages of ice. They are stable in the extreme cold and crushing weight of deepwater, but are extremely dangerous when they build up inside the drill column of a well. If destabilized by heat or a decrease in pressure, methane hydrates can quickly expand to 164 times their volume."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/20/deepwater-methane-hydrates-bp-gulf
BP Executive..The Containment Dome Has Failed.
May 8 2010
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/05/bp-on-containment-dome-it-has-failed.html
Why did it fail?..methane hydrate build up.
I'm going to post a vid..
Thad is going to say no ..but I say yes.
Aug 11 2010
Methane hydrate? seepage STILL increasing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGsJSgrKeIo
Report Comment
HotR
A insite into the Machiavellian mind of a company like BP – much mis-information put out after their caused disaster the origin was BP– get the public and hopely the court to believe it was anything except BP negligence…Your link are old- 2010
I have stated before and documented, so one more time-there was nothing out of the ordinary- nothing of increased danger in drlg this well–It was sucessfully drilled (as was the kill well) After sucessfully drld and cased the well was lost by BP negligence when setting plugs. This has been proven in court, BP has plead guilty And if you care to research — right now the court under Judge Barbier in NOLa is deciding the degree of negligence- Simple, Gross, Criminal or Gross Criminal Negligence.
The first Top Hat collector failed because of methane hydrate FORMED when the METHANE coming out with the oil chilled. It was not methane hydrate coming from the well.
Aug 11 2010
Methane hydrate? seepage STILL increasing– BULL
Since that date there has been three USCG supervised and a NOAA ROV surveys of the well head and surrounding area- NO SEEPAGE
Check Wikipedia -Methane Hydrate- good article – has chart showing the temperature band were it can form and exist– Note maximum temp 0 – 2deg C above that the ice matrix thaws to water and the methane is released.
Also note as you go into the earth the geothermal temperature increase — at the point it goes over 0 deg C methane hydrate can not form or exist.
Report Comment
Thad..this discussion was about..whether or not a 'supposed' meteor..cause a methane and perhaps munitions explosions..particularly if the 'meteor'..is actually a thermal/nuclear weapon.
Poor chose of story…perhaps…to emphasis the presence of methane in Lake Bistineau..which for some odd reason.. I feel should be monitored.
Leave the Examiner..alone…Thad…no news source is perfect..
Here..I'll trade you for another story..
March 1 2013..
Obama fundraiser, BP case top lawyer client fraud investigated
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-fundraiser-bp-case-top-lawyer-client-fraud-investigated
Report Comment
Actually, the point was about shock waves. Could a meteor shock wave cause the Bayou Corn cocktail to explode or become more vulnerable to explosion for any reason? Would shock pressure cause some excitement of the concoctions… The reason I am asking about the shock wave is because it covers an exponentially larger area than landfall of a meteorite. I would doubt both munitions storage facilities in LA and in Georgia were not coincidentally directly hit within hours of one another by flaming rocks from the sky. That would seem to strain coincidence. But IF the two weapons storage dumps blew up because of shock waves…then that could make more sense…
Five years ago, we averaged just under two meteors a day. Now we're over 7 every day and the pace is increasing. We can't see a meteor as big as a CITY BLOCK until ONE WEEK before it would hit AND it would appear that these are monster meteors, not the nice little souvenirs we love. Whatever is going on, for whatever reason, I am interested to know the effect of shock waves on explosive gasses.
Report Comment
irhologram
"Scientists have said a meteor hitting methane in north Louisiana could cause an explosion." Seems she failed to tell them that there was no methane on surface in north La — methane is lighter than air so what will hold it in place waiting on the meteor..
Give it a break people, NO scientist would make such a statement
Report Comment
I meant Alabama, not Georia.
Report Comment
The day the government nuked the mississippi salt domes. The Us government set off two nuclear bombs in Mississippi’s Tatum Salt Dome in the 60s, about 20 miles southwest of Hattiesburg, as part of Project Dribble. See full read here.
http://thereadonwnc.ning.com/forum/topics/1972559:Topic:1921
More interesting governmental use of salt domes in the gulf basin.
Report Comment
Thad, from your above post…still open in my mind. You mentioned "formation waters" as being the source of the influx of water not previously there at Bayou Corn. How much water in " formation waters"? Does this water migrate with migrating oil and gases? Is there a test that would distinguish ocean salinity from salt cavern brine, like a finger print for origin? If so, has this been done. (Although, from a post a day or two ago, we were reminded that BP involved tricky drilling RE: an undersea salt dome…could the salinity from that deposit be traced back to its origin, as distinguished from Oxy 3?)
Report Comment
irhologram
Bayou Corne- no shortage of water. Fresh water in bayou, marsh and aquifer. Brine in the cavern and sinkhole. Brine being saturated w/ salt can't dissolve any more. Fresh water being lighter 'floats' on top of the brine far above the salt. Sounds strange – the Amazon River flows on top of the sea water 150 mi or more offshore Brazil.
Formation water also called produced water- fossil water trapped when the oil and gas and produced with the oil and gas.. The water has a high salinity (seawater x2) but is not saturated and as it comes up from the leaking formations with the oil/gas contacts the saltdome it can and does dissolve salt until it too is brine.
BP/MC252 was not drld in a saltdome
Report Comment
From Hank Richards with Dan Youra interview back in the summer of 2010. Youra explains that ‘It is the oil in the air over the gulf that carries the greatest health risks for humans. BP has a cap on the blowout, but the gases can continue to increase and escape from the water for some incalculable period of time. These gases and oil chemicals are in a dance, where the dancers keep changing from gases to liquids to solids and back and forth. If you could follow one molecule expelled from the blowout, it could rise through the 5000 feet of water as a liquid and pop out of the sea as a gas. It could float over to the coast, liquefy or solidify, heat up again and float off as a gas in the clouds.
Toxic gases continue to circulate in the air above Gulf coastal cities. Available data from a collection station in Venice, Louisiana recorded a reading of 14ppm for volatile organic compounds in the air. The National Resources Defense Council registers a reading of 14ppm for VOC gases to be in the highest danger zone on its gas measurement scale which measures potential threats to human health. The NRDC scale reports VOC gases above 10ppm as a ‘Significant Potential for Health Risks.’ The reading of 14ppm at Venice indicates an increase in the trend line for the volatile organic compounds.
And now? This from this EPA website ( http://gulfcoast.airnowtech.org/) : "Note: real-time data are no longer available, but we've kept the link text visible for historical purposes"
Report Comment
irhologram
Youra is ignoring real world science. His solid-liquid-gas and back-
Solid state for methane is methane hydrate only in a frozen water matrix at temperatures BELOW 0 deg C, liquid state is at minus 162 deg C a temp dies nit iccur in nature. According to Youra it warm/ thaws rises to surface and can revert back to a solid–NO– as a lighter than air gas it disapates rises up joining the other green house gases in the atmosphere
Basically it is the same situation for oil- only a solid when frozen and only a gas when vaporised by heat– neither temperature occur naturally in nature.
After three years and at least two hurrecanes there would be no residuals aerosols at a level to detect.
"Note: real-time data are no longer available, but we've kept the link text visible for historical purposes"
Report Comment
So BACK to my question about shock waves we observed in the Russian meteor disintegration( read "compression" and intense, sudden, pressure") and the effect on VOC gases, which DO hug the ground.., I.e., H2S, Benzene, Butane, Tourlene…and many more. I believe pressure affects flammability? After this, I'm not going to ask anymore because I just can't seem to communicate why I think this is important, with the frequency of monster meteors we are seeing (like a trend).
Report Comment
irhologram
There is theoritical possibility BUT it would require prepositioned volumes of air/ gas mixture within the correct explosive range.. Such chemical as H2S, Benzene, Butane, Toulene if present in explosive mixtures would probably have already exploded by such mundane things as static electricity or so one smoking. A shock wave is mechanical- fire and explosions are chemical- even if the shock wave could cause the chemical requirement must be met first.
More of a concern would be the radiant heat/ light energy igniting solids.
Interesting slow motion clip of atomic bomb test striking a mock town-light energy hits puff of smoke as building and objects ignite then shock wave strike smoke disappears objects are blown away– but those still standing were not burning.. of course this was peripherial not ground Zero
Report Comment
For example, could a meteor shock wave cause enough pressure or compression to make gases change state or make dense gases denser? Is energy produced during rapid state change…for example, compressing gases into much smaller volumes, which makes them more flammable… Will that force chemical interactions? Will there be a sudden release of heat? I'm sure it would depend on the angle of the blast in smashing gases into the ground…but the area could be conceivably broad considering the shock wave produced by the Russian explosion in the sky 20 miles up. i'm curious why that isn't a practical question in "real world science?" That is what I have asked from the beginning. …The effect of shock waves on gases known to be in Bayou Corn, as documented in the relief wells, but that is also bubbling up on its own with unknown content for miles and miles and miles. (VOC gases MUST be there or they wouldn't be flaring them.). Maybe shock waves would have no effect at all on dense gases. Maybe they would. Just interested in discussing
Report Comment
irhologram
At Bayou Corne to burn the methane being flared it has to be ignited at the flare pipe exit– and any distance away it is too diluted to burn– same for the bubble sites. As little as 3 ft from bubbles too diluted to burn.
Where sudden compression does initiate and accelerate chemical reactions is by the sudden temperature rise of compression. Good example is the diesel engine. BUT still the correct mixture must be present– Basic air/ fuel explosions are nothing more than very rapid combustion– conbustion is oxidiation–
Report Comment
So, it could have been KABOOM if those munitions-related-meteors (or at first reported as meteors) in NW LA and Alabama…..had gone just a little further south. …if the right mixture of gases were present. I'm puzzled. Would that be the oxygen in air and any dense, flammable liquid or just certain combinations as they interact and release heat…that then may explode? Now what even I think is a stupid question: Under pressure from a shock wave coming from the 11-1pm position in the sky, could content be forced back down relief wells, or if there is an instaneous flare out, could this pressure in any way involve underground storage and/or vent wells.
Report Comment
irhologram
IF-IF-IF- is gas and air at the right mixture were present- but it was not none if a frog had wings he would make lomger flights. If I had the right six numbers I could win the lotery.
Meteir shock wave cause stored afrillery shells to explode -NO- do you have any idea the shock on an artillery shell when fired.
But an untended trash fire can—
Report Comment
Space rocks are now "classified." A recent U.S. military policy decision now explicitly states that observations by hush-hush government spacecraft of incoming bolides and fireballs are classified secret and are not to be released, SPACE.com has learned. The satellites' main objectives include detecting nuclear bomb tests, and their characterizations of asteroids and lesser meteoroids as they crash through the atmosphere has been a byproduct data bonanza for scientists.
The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are now classified.
Read more: http://www.disclose.tv/forum/military-hush-up-incoming-space-rocks-now-classified-t84558.html#ixzz2NGWPrVfU
Report Comment
Why would the military being try to suppress information concerning a natural occurrence?
Could it be because..their efforts do not match the natural ocurrence…as well as they had hoped?
Report Comment
Or it be they know what's coming?
Report Comment
Thank you Thad for answering about the shcck waves. Once you get to know me, you'll realize I'm just eternally curious and leave no stone unturned. I have no dog in this fight. It's good to know that ordinance can't "go off" from shock waves. Enquiring minds want to know. Lol.
Report Comment
MaidenHeaven I didn't catch this before from your earlier link…Emptied to eradicate an invasive fern, Lake Bistineau has been subject of ongoing fires, the kind that continue erupting after extinguishing, the kind the Heilig family experienced in their back yard near Bayou Corne, where methane seeps and bubbles amid a state of emergency and mandatory evacuation, related to a sinkhole now the size of five football fields.
"You might want to get your dogs in. The lake is on fire," one neighbor recently told another near Lake Bistineau.
"I ran out there and sure enough, it was burning," the other neighbor said. "Really coming on strong."
Saturday, reporters explaining continued flare-ups at Lake Bistineau stated, "A blaze touched off by a trash fire has been smoldering for two months — with occasional flareups — in the bed of a twisting, narrow lake drawn down as part of northwestern Louisiana’s fight against an invasive water fern.
"It started during the Labor Day weekend and spread for miles along the edge of long, narrow Lake Bistineau. But it also burrowed under the lake bed, erupting in new spots days or weeks after crews put out what they could see."
Burrowed underground? Fires underground cannot burn for days or weeks without a plentiful supply of oxygen and fuel, such as methane. These fires could have arisen independently of the original fire fueled by methane seeping at multiple new "bubbling" sites, ranging from blips to gurgles to gushers.
Report Comment
irhologram
In the case of Lake Bistineau it is not only the methane from decay but peat in the bottom once dry the methane fire lights the peat– and spreads lighting more methane–
Report Comment
Couple this above discussion with the clusters of meteors now falling as reported CURRENTLY by looking at the right lower middle of the page and clicking through the link to worldwide reporting of meteor sightings today. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2013/03/neos-close-approaches-march-2013.html. Look at the sheer NUMBERS on the worldwide map from recent days. This is why I'm interested in meteor shock wave's possible interaction with dense, flammable gases.
Report Comment
This JPL Small-body Data base is interesting (incoming!). http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=2013%20EA29;orb=1. I'm not sure how this site's release of information equates with Space.com. 'S report that the military has censored information…but maybe…the military knows about these objects WELL in advance, but NASA releases it a week or days prior to the event?
Report Comment
Thad. That makes sense about newly exposed peat in a drained lake bottom.
Report Comment