TV: They are turning ground into quicksand at Fukushima plant — Engineers warn reactor units may topple (VIDEO)

Published: August 13th, 2013 at 3:29 am ET


Title: Interview with Kevin Kamps
Source: Thom Hartmann Program
Date: August 12th, 2013

At 4:10 in

Thom Hartmann, Host: So what’s the fate and future Fukushima first of all?

Kevin Kamps, Beyond Nuclear: […] In the context of what’s going on now with the groundwater flooding of the site — because one of their mitigation measures which is pretty not very well thought out, was building a seawall by freezing the ground — and guess what? The groundwater is piling up behind the seawall. […] by backing up the water under the entire site, they are turning the ground into quicksand. And that’s causing less stability — more instability. There are structural engineers and nuclear engineers warning that may be the final straw that’s needed to topple not only Unit 4, but perhaps some of those other destroyed units with their high-level radioactive waste stored in pools fifty feet up in the air.[…] If that [Unit 4] pool goes down — enough of that fuel is still in there — it’ll be on fire […]

Hartmann: And the prevailing winds and the prevailing ocean currents take water from the coast of Japan where?

Kamps: To North America. Within days of the Fukushima Daiichi catastrophe beginning, we were getting fallout coming down in rain in the United States — not in insignificant quantities. And also, of course, the seafood. Not only does the ocean’s currents bring the radioactivity this way, but also the sea life itself. The blue fin tuna migrated from Japan to North America and carried the radioactive cesium in its flesh over here.

See also: [intlink id=”wsj-official-warns-that-tepco-could-topple-reactor-buildings-by-changing-flow-of-groundwater-at-fukushima-plant-water-could-pool-dangerously-underground-softening-the-earth” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Watch the broadcast here

Published: August 13th, 2013 at 3:29 am ET


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  2. PBS: Engineers believe Fukushima’s nuclear fuel melted right through the containment vessels, where it’s contacting ground water — Expert: The fuel “melted down into ground” (VIDEO) March 1, 2014
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91 comments to TV: They are turning ground into quicksand at Fukushima plant — Engineers warn reactor units may topple (VIDEO)

  • Wooster


    Tepco dug some test boreholes recently and found that the caesium level was higher in samples from the bottom of the bore than at the top. Tepco suggested that this was because caesium was subject to gravity.

    That's possible, but isn't there a more likely explanation for this phenomenon?

    If the reactor cores have melted their way out of the containment vessels they may well have found their way into the subsoil BENEATH the reactor buildings. The corium would then keep going until it hit bedrock.


    If the corium is sitting on bedrock beneath the reactor buildings, there is only one thing preventing it from becoming critical again: the huge amount of groundwater flowing over and around it.

    If Tepco start pumping up or diverting away the groundwater from the site in great quantities not only do they risk destabilising what remains of the reactor structures, they might also cause a recriticality in reactor fuel in the subsoil.

    The risk to the Pacific Ocean from contaminated water flowing into it is very great. But the risk to the planet from uncovering the melted reactor cores and exposing them to the air is far greater.

    Incredibly it may actually be safer in the short term to continue polluting the Pacific than uncovering one or more melted reactor cores by removing or diverting groundwater away from the site..

    • Bone Idle

      I have been following the discussions on Zero Hedge between some highly qualified nuclear engineers and some nuclear physicists.

      The major problem will be the groundwater coming up will be highly radioactive. If so much radioactive water breaches the surface around the plant then onsite work will be impossible – the radiation levels will be too high – death zone.

      This means that the whole plant will deteriorate very quickly. Most likely cooling will fail and there will be no way of restoring it.
      The complex will collapse into a festering mess.

      A concern by these experts is that the fuel pools should have been emptied already – by any means possible.

      The consensus seems to be that the coriums are still in the containment areas – for now. If coriums had already breached the containment and gone into the ground underneath we would already know about it. One expert has stated that this would be a catastrophic scenario. The area around the plant would already be unapproachable.

      One PHD who works for the European nuclear disaster committee has stated that the real hazard is airborne – not seaborne. He also states that the coastal area 200 kms either side of the Fukashima plant should be evacuated now.

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        The coriums are not in the containment areas.
        How is the groundwater that is coming up..getting contaminated?
        There is no impetus for the coriums to remain in containment..the physical not and has not been there.
        Cooling was not maintained.
        Airborne vs. seaborne..that will give them something to compare..(and waste time.(200 km..should have been evacuated from the beginning…further).
        Air… sea..dosed.
        Empty the fuel pools of what? How is it possible the spent fuel pools retained cooling?
        On-site work soon will be impossible…should be impossible..considering conditions for the workers.
        The what? I have no idea..
        But it shouldn't be another chemical wall.

        • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

          Zero Hedge turn into Physics Forum..or what?

        • Bone Idle

          Many others read Zero Hedge besides those trader desk jockeys.

          The coriums are still in the containment areas. The containment cells are thick enough to have not been breached by the coriums ….yet. There are cooling fluids around the coriums however these fluids ARE breaching the containment. The opinion is that the current ground water contamination is from this cooling fluid that has breached the containment.

          The fuel pools should have been emptied of all the spare and spent fuel rods. They will add to the mess when the plant becomes unapproachable.

          From the other experts I talk to or read, they all agree that this will not turn out well. When just one of the cores eventually breaches the containment – the games up. That's why they opine that there is no breach as yet.

          • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

            They can opine all they want…
            Two and half years later..the 'experts' think they have a concept.
            Again there is no impetus for the nuclear material to be in containment…after physical containment nad cooling as lost.
            Unit 1 return to containment.
            Unit 2..vent…melt-through.. anyway.
            Unit evidence of containment/cooling.
            Unit 4..burned.
            So here we are… two years down the road.
            How long before the 'experts" come up to speed?
            Speaking of something being too late.

            Next potential ELE..try getting in some ..genius.
            Or at least some folks in smarter and KEENER than the so-called experts.
            The groundwater is being contaminated by the corium(s) below the reactors.
            Every criticality ..every underground explosion…causes further destruction of the aquifer… and disruption of the shoreline.
            There is both on-shore and off-shore involvement.
            This is a problem.

          • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

            Agree with you, Heart. 😉
            Bone Idle, the Common SFP, and SFP5&6 should have already been emptied, probably transported to new Fukushima storage facility built nearby in the evac zone. But groundwater levels may be less of a problem than you imagine. Rads on Units1-3 still too high for workers.

            In my mind, the corium has left the buildings. I keep going back and looking at endoscope videos of Containment1&2, showing still water and wispy steam. Only corium splatter remains in those reactors and containments. More might be in Torus Basement of Unit 2. But my bet is most corium is ex-building. All the rads are from groundwater flowing through corium lava tubes. The point is that TEPCO doesn't seem to be capable of dealing with even residual corium debris. Inept.

            But I think that TEPCO will soon be able to use extraction pumps to stabilize groundwater levels behind the sheet steel double wall, per their plan for this year. Interesting to hear what nuke engineers think, however. They may be right, and I may be wrong. Who knows? All I know is that there is little corium left in Containments1&2.

          • We Not They Finally

            BoneIdle, what in the world are you talking about – “WHEN” it breaches containment? There were three melt-THROUGHS within days. The horse has long since been out of the barn. This is fantasy.

          • fuganzi

            That's a very informative post; and I believe, spot-on.

            We can really only guess at what's going on with the cores. Some may still be actively boring downward. Argonne's experiments in the late 2000's showed that corium lava can penetrate as much as 12" of concrete in an hour. That was with a few pounds of material – in Daiichi, we've got tonnes.

            It's likely that, like: at Chernobyl, the molten core material did not all remain in one blob. (especially after the explosions) – so there might be multiple masses of molten core, at each site, boring downwards. OR – much of the material may have become diluted, and cooled, stopped at various levels. It's obviously spread all over the place under the PV's. The best information is the presence of Iodine: which proves ongoing critical events.

            The obvious solution is to dig it all up, and re-contain it somehow. The problem with that is – we have no way to dig it all up.

            The KNOWN issue is the spent fuel. And we've got to get that the hell out of there before the core situation(s) make the site too contaminated for work. I think this should be the number 1 priority and emergency there. There's hundreds more tons of spent fuel, that just needs to get the hell away and be dealt with. They need to get some container-trucks with the tops cut-away, filled with water, as temporary, mobile spent-fuel pools, drive them in there, load them up, and get them out and away. Like, last year!

            • patb2009

              the coriums are out because the deeper you drill the worse the contamination is.

              this is water contamination, it should follow a plume

              the japanese must send 10,000 volunteers in now to
              pull the Spent fuel and get it in casks, because if the buildings sink and crack
              the fuel will catch on fire and contaminate 10 million people.

      • Sickputer

        BI writes: "A concern by these experts is that the fuel pools should have been emptied already – by any means possible.
        The consensus seems to be that the coriums are still in the containment areas – for now. If coriums had already breached the containment and gone into the ground underneath we would already know about it. One expert has stated that this would be a catastrophic scenario. The area around the plant would already be unapproachable."

        SP: I have serious doubts that most of the hot melted fissile fuel remains inside Units 1-3. Splatter from the March 2011 explosions remains dangerously radioactive inside the units, but I suspect the corium masses have left the buildings. My guess and I could be wrong. It may be 50 years or 500 years before we will know the status of the coriums.

        As for the spent fuel rod pools, removal would require many liquidator workers to remove the rods which in some pools are melted congealed chunks of assemblies and rods. Certainly it would be prudent to amass huge stockpiles of sand and borax along with remote-controlled bulldozers in the event the buildings collapse and the assorted fuel chunks re-ignite. Arnie Gundersen asked the Japanese long ago if they were making such contingency plans. It is likely they have done nothing to pre

      • omniversling

        BI, I also follow ZH, and it's really irrelevant what so called nuke 'physicists' and 'engineers' claim, wherever they post when all evidence points to not such a cozy picture.


        GE Mk1 reactors the control (hahahaha) rods come up from underneath, as they melted down with the fuel rods there would have been molten corium flowing down through the holes that the control rods pass though into the control rod drive cavity, quite probably enlarging the holes as it flowed. See:
        At 2400-2800c corium burns through concrete at the rate of 5cm per hour, and the base of the concrete dry well beneath the pressure vessel is about 8m as far as I can discover (anyone with better knowledge?). The time it would have taken the corium to burn through that thickness is about 160 hours. There are 24 hours in a day so 160 hours is 6.6666 days. There's one for the numerologists amongst us! Debbil's work for sure..
        So let's say that after the fuel to start melting following the main cooling system failure during the earthquake (not tsunami, earthquake that fractured the cooling pipes), within about a week the corium would have been into the ground. Providing of course the thermal power of the corium was not exhausted by the concrete as is passed through.

        Do the math. It's easy. Survival of DNA, not so…

        • omniversling


          .anyone have better info/measurements/links?

          Also, Arnie Gundersen puts the temperature of corium closer to 3500C, so could go through even faster, and who knows how fast or far it may have gone through the rubble that FukuSteamer was built on…plus, how many fractures or cracks in the foundations now from hundreds of tremors since…does the rise of the tide now contact the coriums and create all the steam that is rising from the ground and between the reactors now?
          See Knuckelchen's and Fuku1live's clips..samples:



          Heart of the Rose, August 13, 2013 at 7:14 am.. +100, true that.


        • flatsville

          I also read ZH. With very rare exception, it is a circle jerk on Fuku.

          • flatsville

            Most recently a regular ZH blogger by the name of George Washington posited the secret good news out of Fuku is that dry caskin rods after one year is safe.

            • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

              The spent supposed to cool a year in the spent fuel pools before dry cask..
              Is this what they are referring to?

              "Although the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) would allow used fuel with as little as one year of cooling to be moved from the used fuel storage pool into dry storage, there currently are no NRC-licensed dry storage casks that could handle used fuel cooled for only one year. Since the heat generating rate of used fuel decreases very rapidly (exponentially) as the cooling time of the used fuel assemblies increases, designing and using dry cask storage systems is far easier and safer for used fuel that has been cooled longer in the used fuel storage pool. The shortest cooling time for used fuel assemblies in dry storage systems licensed by the NRC is three years and is only approved for a few cask designs; for the majority of NRC-licensed systems, the minimum cooling time is five years. In practice, most used fuel loaded into dry storage casks is cooled for seven or more years."


              Cooled from 3-7 …before dry-cask.
              TEPCO is storing hot material in corroding cans.

              • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                PS..Then why..oh..why is PERMANENT storage of nuclear material in dry cask.. being sought..if supposedly the fuel is safe in a year?

                • flatsville

                  Dry casking after only one year is unproven and unsafe by any industry standard. It is a ZH circle jerk proposal…like bombing.

                  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

                    Not to worry. By the time TEPCO gets around to removing fuel from SFPs, five years will have past. That's the plan, you betcha! 😉
                    The rate they are moving on the soent fuel situation says a lot about their plan:
                    Wait 5 years.
                    Put into dry casks.
                    Store these at fenced off facility to be built later.
                    (Else, why no action to remove spent fuel from 5&6, and from CSFP?)

                    • flatsville

                      You may well be right about their plan.

                      That 5 +/- yr. cooling period assumes it's been done in properly treated water and not in a witch's brew of collapsed crane parts, crumbling concrete etc…

                      I admire the thought you put into possible solutions to Fuku site management.

                      No clean up…No remdiation…They'll be luck to "manage" it long term.

                • dharmasyd dharmasyd

                  Heart–I'm glad you are still here, trying to offer some degree of sanity as the same old arguments and analyses come up again and again as new ones come and ask the same questions again and again.

                  I have given in to the last stage of grief in the dying and grieving process: acceptance. We tried. We tried. I fought the anti-nuclear battle form the 1950s till now. I lost the battle. I was unable to even slow the inexorhable unfolding of our misguided star-crossed destiny.

                  I just want to say Hello, Heart. And thank you.

                  I hope we meet again on a different planet, in another galaxy, in a wiser time.

                  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                    I am one that believes that there is order in the universe.
                    If things work out right..that's the destination.
                    One way or another…
                    Thank you too for being around…
                    Seems we are in for the 'long haul'.

                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      This is a motion of love and freedom.
                      Nothing more..nothing less..

                    • dharmasyd dharmasyd

                      TY and XO to you Heart! …a motion of love and freedom === the evolution!

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Wonderful thinking Heart..
                      "I am one that believes that there is order in the universe."

                      If this is true…

                      Mankind must then be considered the chaos in the universe.

                      Japan is in Chaos as is the rest of this beautiful planet called Earth.

            • We Not They Finally

              Flatsville, “the secret good news”? What is that? That the puppies trapped in the burning building two and a half years ago can now magically sprout wings and fly away? “Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you..…”

              • Lacsap Lacsap

                The tsunami saved Japan at first because the time the cores where melting down rapidly, the ocean water flooded the basements in which the cores (or melted fuel) dropped after breaching containment. This saltwater intake is later stopped because of the reactions of salt with corium (radioactive steam) and replaced with fresh water to continue the cooling.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Gee, just think if we had never built these reactors based on their known original specifications and design limitations, none of this would have happened.

    Stupid is as Stupid does..

    This is not the type of jobs program any of us needed or wanted…ever!

    Shut all Nuclear Power Generation and all Nuclear Power Plants down…and do it now!

  • hbjon hbjon

    A whole lot of suspicion and worry about those cores going critical, but they have experienced the phenomenon more than once since 3/11, and when it happens, the smallest possible criticality will cause a major flash in steam and corium through tubes and veins created by the molten corium and steam erosion. It's natures way of saying, "No loitering of all the same atoms of one element allowed". I think the man-made inland lake is a great idea for water storage. The supertanker idea would be much easier, but has it's problems.

  • UncleCrusty

    Please Mr. Prime Minister:
    Bechtel. GE / Toshiba / Hitachi. CE. Babcock & Wilcox. Arevia. Heard of these Companies? They build Nuclear reactors. Please call them. I'm sure they would help. Probably have some ideas too.
    Pull TEPCo out. They are spent. Managing crisis to crisis for two years plus, they are numb and exhausted. Bring the real experts – demons that they be.
    I hope you find peace for your soul. Your inaction will kill many people over time. I pity you Sir.

    Respectfully, a really pissed American, former nuclear worker and U.S. Marine who will be a grandpa soon.

    • Bone Idle

      The companies you mention only know how to build the nuclear facilities. Tepco only knows how to operate the facility.
      Know one knows how to deal with this emergency.

      Here's one suggestion that has been made.

      Bomb the plant and fuel into the ocean. The ocean will cool the fuel and dissolve much of the contaminants. When the fuel is in the ocean and being kept cool by constant flow of seawater it will be easy to deal with and extract.

      Fuel contamination in the sea is better than in the air.

      Do you think that this is a crazy idea?

      It's supported by a great deal of nuclear specialists and nuclear disaster scientists.

      • flatsville

        Think there might be a problem with bombing the site into oblivion? Like creating an EMP so strong it it fries Dainni and creates another full blown disaster? Might want to consult a map first…

      • Sickputer

        BI typed these pixels of light: "Bomb the plant and fuel into the ocean. The ocean will cool the fuel and dissolve much of the contaminants. When the fuel is in the ocean and being kept cool by constant flow of seawater it will be easy to deal with and extract.
        Fuel contamination in the sea is better than in the air.
        Do you think that this is a crazy idea?"

        SP: In the early months of the disaster there was a possibility of using directional drilling from the inland side of the complex and placing shaped charges of conventional bombs or a small neutron bomb to push the plant buildings (corium and all) into the sea. Lots of factors made this plan unpalatable to the PTB among which was the shallow water of the nearby lagoon. Lots of Russian and US reactors and bombs lie in deep ocean water, but this ocean burial site is hardly ideal for the large quantities of nuclear fuel at Fukushima Daiichi.

        It's a moot idea now. The coriums may be far too deep now to reach those radioactive masses by any human methods. Godzilla (in triplicate) is digging deep into the east coast sea line and Tokyo awaits their wrath.

      • omniversling

        Are you insane? Bomb the plants into the ocean!!??!!>>WTF. Have you ever seen a bomb explode? It goes UP…doh…or see how Unit3 did it itself..

        Let's put some MORE MOX into the jetstream…

        • A nuclear bomb by itself will spread about 2-10 pounds of uranium/plutonium all around the world.

          But what happens if you bomb a nuclear reactor site, with 2,000 tons of FISSIONABLE material?

          Let us imagine that all of this goes up and fissions along with the bomb itself… In other words, it would be the biggest nuclear explosion in the history of the planet.

          If the nuclear bomb triggers some or most of whatever is left in the spent fuel pools and reactors to explode and fission in addition to what is in the bomb itself, what would happen?

          The explosion may be the equivalent of a meteor hitting the Earth, creating a nuclear winter and putting the whole planet into a deep freeze.

          At best, the nuclear explosion would vaporize what is left on site, putting 1,000 TONS of uranium, plutonium and whatever other nasty radioactive things are there into the upper atmosphere… polluting the whole planet with the equivalent of an all out nuclear water, possibly creating a life extinction event.

          Either way, not a good idea…

          • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

            And on top of that , the shockwave would crumble all other reactors in japan … then what… nuke these too and so on.. ?

          • larry-andrew-nils

            drill in holes and use tnt to move the whole mass into the sea ?

            • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

              Hire MarkWW , check his proposed mixture , fill the reactors to the rim , deep enough to seal the melting holes and the liquified grond will give in under the weight and may relatively gently and controlled sink in the ocean.
              But hurry up because this is happening anyway..


              • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

                ..and then keep pouring the mixture over the sunken reactors untill it is completely covered/burried..

          • We Not They Finally

            Say guys, you’ve SO talked us out of that bombing idea from the get-go…… Sounds terrifying. Are people just suggesting INSTANT terror as opposed to cumulative terror?

      • larry-andrew-nils

        makes sense

      • UncleCrusty

        Its like this… Tepco drove the car, wrecked it, and has found out duct tape and a hammer wont fix it. Global const. firms like the fore mentioned can build the car, AND fix things, as well as redesign on the fly.
        As far as bombing? Do you work for TEPCo? Sounds like one of their banner ideas.

      • UncleCrusty

        Yes, I think bombing is crazy.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Bomb?..and perhaps 'excite" the 'Ring of Fire".
    Gee..the experts working on this one?

  • jahdesm jahdesm

    i know that LEO PHARMA medicin company cannot use alaskan salmon to produce medicin from it because it is radioaktive they have used salmons roe to medicin

    • 21stCentury 21stCentury

      radioaktive alaskan salmons = big pirate corporations will make a huge environmental disaster at Pebble Mine… Pebble should be mined slowly be little people over 500 years to keep the salmon alive in balance.

  • jackassrig

    Steel and concrete fail somewhere around 800 degF and 1000 degF. There is no residual stress left in the material. The material will not support anything. Forget PHD's. They do text book problems and THAT IS ALL. Most need medical attention.

  • 21stCentury 21stCentury

    TEPCO needs to get bigger equipment mobilized to lift the fuelrods out of the pools.. a bigger barge crane with extended jib that can reach to suspend a mini-pool with a waterfall, the rods get pulled up inside the waterfall into the mini-pool, then the mini-pool gets swung onto a barge for transfer to a bigger pool on a barge.

    • flatsville

      Thanks for the pics. I always knew cranes of that size and configurarion could have and should have been ready to be deployed to removeg the SPF rods as soon as the upper floors were cleared.
      This was a great failure.

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Yes, 21stCentury. Biggest Fail by TEPCO since 311 is the failure to think big. Slantwise drilling should have been used to map & track corium. Bring in that Frozen Wall contractor to surround corium with pipes of liquid nitrogen to freeze it in place.
      Dig big rectangle around Units1-4 with this earthmover:
      Build reinforced concrete foundation. Put frozen earth pipes horizontally under corium to freeze it permanently in place. Remove contents of SFP with mobile crane for storage or shipment via barge.
      Build sarcophagus on foundation. On-site mobile concrete plants:–A-Brand-New-Product-From-ELKON.html
      Work 24/7/365 until job is done in two years, maximum 3. 20,000 Liquidators. 😉

      But they didn't do any of this. TEPCO gave Fukushima little thought, and little money.
      Now it is too late. For Japan. For the Pacific Ocean. For everybody.

      • 21stCentury 21stCentury

        good stuff there Phil… wink-grin

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          I can never believe that TEPCO has done just about nothing since 311. Probably, TEPCO has done less than nothing, if you count all the problems they have created themselves: rat infested mobile switch gear, crusty water filtration systems, leaky tanks, high groundwater, etc. (Hold the wink-grin.)

      • J.

        Your idea of freezing the area around the coriums is one that should begin ASAP. I read that it was done at Chernobyl. I've read one or two proposals to freeze the ground to stop groundwater flow, but I think it should be more extensive.

  • bwoodfield bwoodfield

    As much as Chernobyl was a major disaster due to the explosion, they did something right in dumping all that silica sand into the reaction chamber. The sand vulcanized around the corium and contained it in the basement of the NPP. It contained it by mixing in and absorbing/reducing the heat. Water on the other hand, although cools faster, only effects the area it comes in contact with (and creates a crust protecting the other corium).

    Regardless, at this point discussing what SHOULD have happened is academic. The corium is still outside containment and generating a huge amount of radiation. We need ideas on how to cap, contain or mitigate the current issues.

    Does anyone know if they've attempted putting dyed water into the containment chambers to determine where the leaks are occurring?


    We all know after two long years of this mess that at best they can only maintain the situation. Well that might be true if no earthquakes were to happen but that logic is the same that allowed NPP's to be built on EQ island, Japan. I am starting to think this flooding may be part of their "plan/fix" to force an end to this disaster. When I say "an end" I am speaking radiation levels so high on site and/or other site conditions that will make a workforce unnecessary. This will allow TEPCO to walk away while they continue to apologize as they keep doing!

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    Superman could fix this. Just call the JLA. We have a real super villian, super criminal, super situation on our hands. Too bad Lex Luthor is too big to fail. He owns all the dinosaur media, and is cursing the alternative media. Now it doesn't matter, so he reports the truth. Doesn't matter. Evil has won. Maybe Batman has something useful in his utility belt…It seems this comment is about as relevant and useful as any other at this point. WWSMD?

  • nedlifromvermont

    And where exactly is the General Electric Reactor Emergency Response Team for these wayward GE progeny????

    Oh right … they bought liability limits from the US Congress in 1957 (Price-Anderson) and the first US commercial reactor (at
    Shippingport, PA) fired up exactly six weeks later; so GE is

    In The Clear and has no liability at all for bringing really, really, really, REALLY BAD things to life … wonderful company … beautiful world … flash on the 1964 GE pavilion at NYC world's fair, remember, it's theme was PROGRESS …

    now the fifty year review is in, and the only progress has been that of the molten reactor cores downward through the (Cheap Cheap) containment for 29 months;

    GE spokesman Ronnie Reagan bought them credibility … working with the feds … stonewalled all internal and external scientific debate in the 1970's ….

    but these guys have been at this a long time … construction of the Interstate highway system (first authorized in 1956, (my birth year)) was about moving plutonium and other reactor fuel elements around the country without having to stop at red lights (radiation exposure, traffic hazards, etc.)

    heck, this J P Morgan pro nuclear cabal even stonewalled the Titanic investigation (the California was within sight, thirty minute sailing time from Titanic and the captain was told about the distress flares ("we thought they were just having a party")
    … never prosecuted, investigated … just covered up …

  • nedlifromvermont

    sooooo …. getting away with wholesale murder has a way of turning good people bad …

    Stonewall, deny, cover up and lie … it worked before, so it can work again …

    what else did they cover up??? oh yeah, multiple design flaws in the containment isolation system at the Westinghoue PWR's of Indian Point (NYC) and so the bought and paid for, nuclear shills at the federal NRC determined:

    a) that retrofit would cost too much money and that
    b) there were so many other glaring design deficiencies in these reactor systems that the containment isolation deficiency was simply just noise in the process …

    I mean … How do these guys sleep at night …. Oh yeah, they are mostly dead now, so Why can't we stop listening to them?????

    Shut them down, prosecute the guilty, expropriate their assets, invade Grand Cayman Island where all the money is hidden (Good idea) and get with the emergency jobs program NOW …

    oh yeah, and don't forget that these guys knew the score on day one … March 2011 witnessed the largest real estate purchase contract default in history … when J P Morgan real estate division walked way from a billion dollar deposit on a handful of Tokyo office properties and handed the sellers (poor Japanese guys again) back the keys …

    All praise the Gods of JP Morgan … isn't Jamie Dimon cute?

    peace …

    • Anthony Anthony

      Brilliant. Epic *Read*.

    • unincredulous unincredulous

      Blobin: "Holy contract default Fatman!"
      Fatman: "Quickly… To the Fatcave, Blobin"
      I just watched the 1966 movie, "Batman: The Movie."
      It struck me that the Joker and Batman were taking the same brand of hallucinogenic acid. How else could Batman understand and solve the stupid riddles that Joker created? It also strikes me that our whole political body has taken a major dose of acid. How could any sane person decide that more than one nuclear reactor be built in one spot? Insanity. How could even one reactor be built on the coast of probably the most tsunami-prone islands in the Pacific Ocean? Insanity. J.P. Fatman understands the dastardly riddle. In the movie, what appears to be a two gallon water tank is used to rehydrate about 12 members of the world government, who had been dehydrated into powder. The water level doesn't drop in the tank as the water miraculously flows to the government body. Watching that movie is like watching a Tepco meeting. Are they really trying to solve this problem, or salivating over the idea of Godzilla mutants emerging from the sea; to provide entertainment for their children, and an enemy for future military leaders? Sound crazy? Osama Bin Godzilla! Holy distraction, Fatman. 🙂

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Hey, ENEnewsers, get a load of the pumping operating taking place:
    I think the pump is a wetvac. And don't you just love the pretty blue flex hoses? nothing could possibly go wrong with this operation. They say in the article:
    "Assuming the same pace throughout the 24-hour period, it would be only 52 tonnes of water – about half of much publicized 100 tonnes per well per day, totaling "300 tonnes of contaminated water" assumption by METI."
    TEPCO is pumping groundwater from the water collection pit at the east side of the Unit 1, 2 turbine building into Unit 2 vertical shaft C. So this is a shell game that will end when shaft C (which is probably leaking) is completely full. When will that be?

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    What happens when you pump groundwater out of the water collection pit?
    Why, more groundwater can now flow into the pit.

    A better idea is to intercept groundwater before it gets contaminated!
    Extend the Impermeable Wall in a rectangle around Units1-4.
    Drill groundwater extraction wells outside the Impermeable wall, inland and uphill from Units1-4.
    Test this water. If it is uncontaminated, dump it into the ocean.

    Otherwise, all you are doing is making more and more contaminated water.
    Which you put in ponds, which no doubt will spring leaks.

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    There's no antidote, and nothing to stop the radiation.

  • ftlt

    This is turning out as a perfect reason why these monsters never should have been built on the ocean and rivers systems..

    That the monsters need water is their 3nd weakest link…

    #1 and #2 are they are SO toxic and reactive..

    Imagine in 100 years when 100 or more of these monsters have failed what the world water system will be like then…

    ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzaaaPPPPPP ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzaaaPPPPPP … The world will be glowing at night then…

    And only time-travelers from the future or alien space travelers will be there to see them, of course…

  • How can anyone maintain that the corium is still in the containment vessels? Tepco has stated that the corium reached a temperature higher than the melting point of concrete.

  • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

    Meltdown's almost instantly , but japan declared it "cold shutdown" and all under control.. and would not accept foreign help or opinion.. as long as they see fit..
    It took them 2,5 years and probably a 1000 tons gushing dayly before they could see it did NOT "fit"..

    I think we are less then dolphin's to them..

    • Anthony Anthony

      Agreed and in lieu of any meaningful apology or corrective action, it leaves one to speculate intention.

      • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

        Hi Anthony,

        An arm's race to ignite nuclear ww3 as soon as the NWO military-industrial capitalistic dictatorship is fully installed in the western world..with usa (israel) as leadership..
        A war then against the midle-east and latin america with all their commie smell objections of usa capitalistic elite wisdom and legalising of pot and individual dignity..


        in my humble but free speculation..

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Umm..The explosions of Units 1 nad 3..WERE THE MELT_DOWNS.
    Melt-through obvious.. the 'naturl' activity of uncontained/cooled nuclear fuel.
    Obvious..even by the briefest look at the damage sustained by the containment.

    Unit 2 was vented..and suffered meltdown and melt-through…INTACT..into the trench..some portion being below the trench.
    Gravel matter..the material would not suffice to hold the corium.

    Unit 4.. The condition is ..I suppose will be debated ..until the cows come home…no matter how many times the early photos show..damage and gaping holes.

    • Anthony Anthony

      And God knows what other issues are also full bore at the other 14 Rogue Japanese Nuclear reactors,no?!!

  • Gasser Gasser

    Solution # 10.1 Every country on the world donates all the toilet paper they have to TEPCO so they can cover the shitty job they have done and all will be forgiven…their I fixed it.

    In reality the above sarcasm is just as good a well thought out plan as the best of the best minds will ever come up with to stop this “life extinction event”.

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    What is sad is there is proof that people in high places allowed corporations to take short cuts on safety before the disaster in Japan Fukushima Prefecture & after! Now let us look back to March 2011, the way information is kept from the public is a crime. There is many blogs who do fine work exposing the truth & some that are just plain propaganda blogs to mislead the readers. I have found to be a very good site that uncovers facts governments want to keep hidden away for many reasons. The data uncovered should be saved where it can't be altered or destroyed so it may be used in the future so justice can be served against those think they are untouchable!

    Folks just how many Americans even know what the dangers of radiation from Fukushima or even our own nuke plants, many waste sites & nuclear processing facilities in the world? I would say less than 10% & even know are care! The only way they will care if it happens in their back yard, being dumbed down for decades shows because the streets in DC are empty unless it's for some groups seeking more hand outs!

    The sink hole in central Flordia has made more news coverage than Fukushima, if the story of just how dire it is at Fukushima does not air time on all the bought off news channels then it's like peeing into the wind!

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes…many are now peeing into the wind!

    They must be changing their pants/skirts 10 times a day!

    Of course many might just like the stench/odor they have created…

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Fukushima 1 Nuke Plant: In-the Ground Storage Ponds Are "Floating" Because of Groundwater Pressure..
    Aug.13 2013

  • J.

    I think we need experts to create and consider radical, out-of-the-box proposals. I sent one to Mr. Gunderson a few days ago, with the caveat that I'm a layman and it may be nonsense, but nothing ventured nothing gained. My idea is to expand the proposed ground-freezing project to encompass as much of the damaged area as possible. The goal is create an enormous expanse of permafrost that could serve to stop ground water flow, strengthen the ground around the plant, and cool the corium enough that the location could be determined and efforts to remove them could begin. The power for the freezing — a huge demand — would come from one re-started NPP devoted solely to this task. Yes, it's a trade-off; all NPPs need to be eliminated. But it might be a good trade-off if it expedites the process — assuming of course that the idea has any merit. NB Gunderson's idea is to use a zeolite trench as mitigation. Excellent, and should have been done years ago, but freezing could go beyond mitigation and make "decommissioning" and "decontamination" at least imaginable.

  • nedlifromvermont

    1. pump water out of ground uphill from the reactors;
    send this water direct to ocean.

    2. pump contaminated water to Supertanker for later processing/safe storage.

    3. Remove what you can of the inventory of spent fuel to dry casks and store in the no go zone, for later reburial or whatever.

    show us that you care, a little.

    the leaky tank farm effort is pathetic … proof that some Yakuza recycling tank manufacturer got a big contract.

    whole thing is pathetic. way to go big nuclear!!! You screwed the pooch, and don't even try to look good.

    Kamikaze Japan. Out to destroy the world.

    GE found some real suckers to sell to. They booked a profit, got limited liability and moved out.

    Now that they give everyone cancer, they get your money for medical diagnostics and imaging.

    These guys kill you, slowly, with their nuke shit, and rob you of all your money, quickly, on your way to a radioactive grave.

    Pure, dead, f**king brilliant business plan. Ought to (and probably will be) a Harvard Business School case study written up on this one.

    Don'tcha think?

    peace 'newsers ….