Japan Expert: “All I can do is pray nothing goes wrong” at Fukushima Unit 4; Concern over “dangerous chain of events” — TV: “At least evacuate nearby residents” — NYTimes: No external supervision of Tepco; To start within 10 days (VIDEO)

Published: November 11th, 2013 at 3:14 pm ET
By

108 comments


New York Times, Nov. 10, 2013:

The Process

[…] In the next 10 days [Tepco] is set to start the delicate and risky task of using a crane to remove the fuel assemblies from the pool, a critical step in a long decommissioning process that has already had serious setbacks. Just 36 men will carry out the tense operation […] A separate team will work overnight to clear any debris inside the pool that might cause the fuel to jam when a crane tries to lift it out, possibly causing damage. […] the work will be carried out by a Tepco-led team and without external supervision. […] Underwater cameras will help engineers search for debris, left from the original explosion, that might jam the assemblies, and a robotic arm will be used to try to remove any debris that does get in the way. The crane is designed to hold its load if power is lost, and Tepco said it has doubled the cabling that will lift the cask, which could weigh as much as 90 tons when filled. The biggest fear is that an earthquake or tsunami will disrupt the fuel assembly transfer. […]

The Risks

[…] The attempt to remove the fuel rods underscores the complicated, potentially hazardous work that lies ahead at the plant […] it is still dangerous to have the fuel high up in a damaged structure that could collapse in another quake, experts warn. […] An accident could expose the rods and — in a worst-case scenario, some experts say — allow them to release radioactive materials beyond the plant. […] some experts [are] wondering whether the company is up to the task. […] The worst-case scenario of a breach in the pool, leaving the fuel rods uncovered, has not happened […]

Shunichi Tanaka, the head of Japan’s Nuclear Regulation Authority: “There are potentially very big risks involved”

Yasuro Kawai, former nuclear plant engineer who now heads a group that is independently monitoring the decommissioning process: “All I can do is pray that nothing goes wrong” […] He said much depends on whether the assemblies were damaged during removal — for example, if the casks carrying them were to accidentally fall to the ground, exposing the rods — and whether such damage was severe enough to force workers to evacuate. “If they drop the rods, will the situation be easily contained, or do we need to worry about a more dangerous chain of events? There are just too many variables involved to say for sure.”

Lake H. Barrett, special adviser to the president of Tepco and former U.S. Department of Energy official: When the job is done, [he] said, the overall danger will be reduced. This fuel “really needs to come back down to a ground-level pool that is not damaged. That’s going to improve the risk situation.”

France 24, Nov. 11, 2013 — Misa Redwolf, Metropolitan Coalition against Nuclear Power (at 5:30 in): “What if they drop this spent fuel? It wold release massive amounts of radiation. This is an unprecedented operation, so it’s hard to imagine what could happen. I think they should at least evacuate nearby residents before hand.”

Watch the France 24 broadcast here

Published: November 11th, 2013 at 3:14 pm ET
By

108 comments

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108 comments to Japan Expert: “All I can do is pray nothing goes wrong” at Fukushima Unit 4; Concern over “dangerous chain of events” — TV: “At least evacuate nearby residents” — NYTimes: No external supervision of Tepco; To start within 10 days (VIDEO)

  • Nick

    ***This is a special bulletin****

    All persons in the Northern Hemisphere need to evacuate to the nearest
    other hemi-sphere. If said area is also contaminated disregard this
    bulletin.

    That is all.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming and mass hypnosis.

    • sweet pea sweet pea

      Like Dr Caldicott said, that's an impossibility. what we can do is sign this petition: http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/remove-tepco-before-you

    • ALL EYES ON UNIT 4!

      ALL EYES ON UNIT 4!

      Never mind the fact that unit 3 already blew its storage pools sky high 2 years and 8 months ago.

      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        Yes reactor 4 is only the beginning which makes me wonder why TEPCO has not been cleaning up other sites. I was talking to my spouse who happens to be a chemist and he thinks they should have been dry casting the common spent fuel pool along with Reactors 5&6 which I think they have started but if they would get all of the remaining fuel dry casked it would certainly lower the risk if a criticality occurred at 4. Why have they not done this as it seems like a reasonable action basically dry cask the fuel you can access and the attack reactor 4 if only TEPCO had started doing this with the common SFP two and a half years ago.

        • Sickputer

          msb asks: "Why have they not done this as it seems like a reasonable action[to]basically dry cask the fuel"

          SP: Tepco is a for-profit company. Each dry cask only holds 10 to 15 tons of spent fuel, yet costs millions for the materials and operating expenses:

          "There are four vendors supplying dry casks systems to nuclear power plant powers in the US: BNFL Fuel Solutions; Holtec; NAC International; and Transnuclear. Information regarding actual and specific costs for dry cask storage systems are proprietary and not available publicly. However, it has been estimated that the cost to install an ISFSI at a two-unit nuclear power plant site is approximately $20 and $30 million. The estimate cost per cask is between $1 and $2 million but the attendant expense to load drives the cost to between $7 and $10 million. The operational costs of the ISFSI at an operating nuclear power plant site is about $1 million per year, but this cost increases to between $4.5 and $8 million per year at nuclear power plant sites that are already shutdown."

          http://www.storenuclearfuel.com/dry-casks/

          Interesting dry cask web info:

          http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/05/02/fancy-new-lids-for-nuclear-waste-casks-as-contents-get-hotter/

          http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=nuclear-waste-lethal-trash-or-renewable-energy-source

          SP: The Daiichi fresh spent fuel rods have not been water cooled for five years per normal casking protocol. Very risky.

          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            Shut this garbage~in garbage out Nuclear industry down now! 🙂

            What a huge waste of human resources, time and money and the only benefit derived is gross genetic mutations and death for all biological life exposed to such garbage producing Nuclear Technology applications. 🙁

          • moonshellblue moonshellblue

            Money I knew that was part of the reason but as far as waiting five years they are not waiting to unload reactors 5 and 6 or the risky number 4 thus I assume you would want to lower the risk of contamination by dry casking the oldest spent fuel in the CSFP first but what do I know. However, I do know money should not be a consideration vs radiological contamination, simply stated. In a perfect world perhaps but as we all know we do not live on that planet. Thanks for the info.

  • jec jec

    How much is LAKE BARRETT being PAID by TEPCO? Just saying..

    • babbo dorian babbo dorian

      Sufre good jec…. sufre good.
      I do not respect the people that sells their word.
      Simply depictable.
      Peace..

  • OldNuke

    Forget elevated background. I wanna talk about contamination.

  • weeman

    I want real time radiation readings from independant source, during removal for one.
    How about a live feed from pool on you tube, we know that you have this ability, do you think that the command centre can't see what is going on, bloody right they can, so share with us and all nuclear regulatory agencies.

    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

      I will be checking background everyday and I'm sure most folks with access to a geiger counter will follow suit and will post any anomalies on Enenews.

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    90 tons? 180,000 pounds? Damn, those nuclear people sure try and make things hard for themselves. And I thought I was stupid.

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    They need to clean out their closet a little more often. And I thought I was a slob.

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    Well, lick my back.

  • Socrates

    Underwater pick-up-sticks with a time limit.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't remove the rods in sfp 4.

    Then there are cores 1, 2 &3 to remove.

    Don't forget sfp 3!!!!

    You can see why Japan needs to muzzle critics or those who seek to assign blame.

    A total crack-down on the press coming.

    How can Japan get through all of this. Will we in the US have a
    conflict with Japan over different plans to "remediate."

    • Gradius

      You can't remove 1, 2, 3 cores cause them all EXPLODED into a MILLION pieces all around the place! A lot pieces hit the Pacific ocean too, that was almost 3 YEARS now! The bigger issue isn't even 4 reactor, but 1+2+3 !

      • We Not They Finally

        Meanwhile, Arnie Gundersen, just this past Saturday on Coast to Coast, told Art Bell, that SFP4 is a relatively easy task (though without minimizing the difficulty AT ALL!) compared to working with reactors 1-3, which are all too radioactive to even be ENTERED.

    • Lake must have never seen the inside of #3 – ITS DESTROYED

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMpGVfU2jtI

      LOL at "When the job is done, [he] said, the overall danger will be reduced" nevermind pools 3,2,1

      He must have also forgotten about the 3 molten cores underground, but it almost is moot…they will never get the fuel out of 4. Not gonna happen.

      • We Not They Finally

        "What molten cores"? These criminals have never even gotten the word "corium" out of their mouths.

  • Lake Barrett is paid by TEPCO to "manage" the situation. He is looking after his own interests.

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/lake-barrett/11/244/6b6

    Kinda takes the heat off the continuing radiation leak into the Pacific. And could they evacuate Tokyo if needed and why do we hear from Lake and not O'Bummer?

  • harengus_acidophilus

    Fairy tales …

    "[…] without external supervision. […]"

    Nice job: removing non-existing fuel rods.
    But hey, if they talk about the difficulties
    during the removal, no one will ask:
    "Are there still unburned rods in?".

    h.

    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

      What do you think the pools do not exist? Really? Don't you think those of us with Geiger counters would have observed an increase in CPMs? I don't understand why some people think the SFPs are gone can you validate your reason besides the FOIA documents as they were during a period of mass confusion which seem to be the reason .

      • Naha Johari

        Been asking the same question too. Either the truth is in those FOIA NRA docs, or in these photos:

        http://finance.yahoo.com/photos/removal-of-fuel-rods-from-fukushima-plant-slideshow/removal-of-fuel-rods-from-fukushima-plant-photo-1383914661322.html

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/RadChick-Radiation-Research-Mitigation/260610960640885

        Even Mochizuki Iori san from Fukushima Diary don't know which is truth.

      • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

        Look at the RadNet data. Any stretch of time where the graph goes off-scale could very well be remains of a SPF burn.

        http://www.bayareacannabis.org/?page_id=152

        For example…just look at Corvallis. These off scale events just happened..and I didn't hear of any reactors exploding lately.

        • OldNuke

          If there's a problem, it won't look like a blip on your little meter there, which is probably not sensitive enough anyway. It'll be the report of a fire and the other surrounding countries will be playing "hotspot, hotspot, who's got the hotspot" just like they did after Chernobyl. Universities all have this stuff set up in their labs for their graduate assistants to do experiments and thesis papers. It will get spotted soon enough if something happens.

          • OldNuke

            And just to clarify, the real danger of a criticality operation in loose materials like this isn't that you might get a massive gamma dose thousands of miles away. Think inverse square law. 😀
            The real danger is that there might be a fire or an explosion that throws stuff high into the atmosphere and spreads it around. That's the problem for you because that could reach here. Also if Japan undergoes another serious contamination event, their products which they're still trying to peddle around the world–tea and fish and sushi makings and stuff like that–will be even less safe than they are now.

            • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

              10 to 1 all the radioactive metal debris over there is ending up in the cars that are coming over here.

              • OldNuke

                Only if you buy cars and car parts that come from there. Don't you guys have dose rate meters so you can check your cars for elevated background? That's a good use for your little gadgets.

                • OldNuke

                  While you're at it, check the cheap-$$$ jewelry that you buy at Walmart. People scavenge abandoned areas and sell the metals for base metal and it goes into all kinds of consumer crap. Check the glaze on your yellow 🙂 dishes from other countries too.

                  • OldNuke

                    not to single out Walmart because I love the place, you might find such anyplace inexpensive jewelry and gadgets are sold.

                • moonshellblue moonshellblue

                  Yes OldNuke that's one of many reasons we purchased a geiger counter as we live near Harrisburg, PA and went through the TMI nightmare which was much worse then the media has led many to believe. Ten years after exposure I was dx'd with MS and while I cannot prove it was from TMI I'm highly suspicious as I spent a lot of time outside but the most important lesson was never believe govt officials especially during a nuclear accident.

            • babbo dorian babbo dorian

              Yes, 100%

      • People have put too much confidence in the NRC's assesment of the first few weeks. Read the entire FOIA release if you need convincing.

        I'll save you some time…They had NO CLUE what was really happening.

        Common sense tells me there would have been gamma-shine from there to Tokyo if the whole pool went up, and they certainly wouldn't be working anywhere NEAR IT now. They would have had to bury the whole reactor in concrete to even be anywhere on SITE.

        The only people who know what is in that pool is Tepco.

      • omniversling

        Sure SFP4 is still there..the question is what's left in it.

        No doubt at all that it burned. At least twice. That's official. In this clip it's steaming. Steam = boiling water. Also watch the last frames of this clip, and see what appears to be water sloshing over the side of the SFP like a boiling kettle.

        Scary video of reactor 4 Fukushima
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYNGxWWG6K4&feature=related

        See how similar it is to experiments during the 60s when reactors were boiled to test moderators and reflectors:

        ‪Borax – Safety experiment on a boiling water reactor‬
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WfNzJVxVz4

        Here is the state of the fuel assemblies in SFP from 2011 (2 years of corrosion since then). Notice how many assemblies have no rods in them, or no caps under the handles. Where are they? (the best links I had have been 'scrubbed' from the net)

        Spent Fuel Pool of reactor 4 Unit 4 at Fukushima Daiichi 8 May 2011
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVqfPCsl2AA&feature=related

        Peace and a happy ending…(dont forget to smile!)

        • omniversling

          And:

          Spent Fuel Rod Pool of Unit 4 at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant – YouTube
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKHWbgsLegw&feature=player_embedded

          Fukushima I Nuke Plant Reactor 4 Spent Fuel Pool 3/16/2012 – YouTube
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E7mEhSUtQKk#!

            • sunpower

              Hi yall, well Jaczko got switched out, generally a sign they do not want him ever to be compelled to testify under oath. This Atomicinsights group starts out with saying the temp never exceeded below boiling, yet from the video Omni posted you can see the boiling water sloshing over the top. With a vigorous boil you would end up with a dry pool in X number of hours. So that is evidence for those of you who insist there is no evidence. There was also a hydrogen explosion. Where did that hydrogen come from according to you believers in the Tepco story?
              I don't think the NRC people made a confused statement at all. They knew they were under political pressure not to report the truth. That is why the guy said he would stake his career on his assessment as an eyewitness. He knew speaking the truth would put his future on the line, as Tepco allowed the plume over Tokyo. Plumegate was serious.
              Yes, Tepco will not have any outside independent supervision to verify if they are even in Building 4. I for one do not believe for a moment that huge sanitary looking factory with the new crane is the actual unit four. Prove it. Such a facility could only be built if the old one was demolished and the setting was not highly radioactive, IMO. They put up a shroud or cover, possibly to hide the lack of real work underneath. I would imagine the amateurs they are training are actors who will work on the mockup to vindicate nuclear power technology…a little show.

            • Jebus Jebus

              I'm just browsing my archives…

              Fire in the spent fuel pool of Unit 4 at Fukushima-I

              In the early morning of Tuesday 15 March 2011, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) released a statement saying that the Japanese authorities had informed the Agency that "the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 of the Fukushima Daiichi plant is on fire and radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere. Dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported at the site. Japanese authorities are saying that there is a possibility that the fire was caused by a hydrogen explosion." A spent fuel fire is of great concern because radioactive emissions are directly released into the environment.

              http://fissilematerials.org/blog/2011/03/spent_fuel_pool_of_unit_4.html

              NRC who?

            • Jebus Jebus

              Japan spent fuel pond on fire,radioactivity out-IAEA

              (Reuters) – Japan has told the U.N. nuclear watchdog a spent fuel storage pond was on fire at an earthquake-stricken reactor and radioactivity was being released "directly" into the atmosphere, the Vienna-based agency said.

              http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/japan-nuclear-iaea-idUSLDE72E04G20110315

              So what, it didn't happen?

            • moonshellblue moonshellblue

              I don't think Patrick Henry is right but do commend him on his tenacious efforts and yes the SFP at reactor 4 was on fire a couple of times back in 2011 but some fuel does remain or readings would be astronomical, the plant would be evacuated and there would be no way to hide this dire reality. Once again kudos to Patrick Henry for all his work deciphering the FOIA documents but Japan was dealing with a triple whammy thus confusion set in as I don't think many workers were looking into the spent fuel pool during that time period. JMHO

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          Comments to scary video

          “radioactive materials(brown and orange colored)visible”

          "At 8 seconds in — is that a dead person sitting or slipping out of a chair in the lower left corner?"
          Scary video of reactor 4 Fukushima
          Apr 1, 2011
          “radioactive materials(brown and orange colored)visible”

      • Kassandra

        The radiation levels in the US started going up significantly in the summer of 2011 in North and South Dakota, under the jet stream.

        When the jet stream moved south in the fall, we under the southern curve of the jet stream in LA, Bakersfield, Fresno, Yuma, Phoenix, Tucson, Denver, and up through Minnesota got hammered according to EPA Radnet readings.

        I could watch the November fire on the Tepco cam at either 3 or 4 (or both) and 5 days later see Radnet beta readings jump in Bakersfield and Yuma. A day later they would be up in Phoenix. Denver was usually next. Readings would start off the chart in Yuma (over 1000 CPM beta) and echo slowly downward across the US. Anyone who got rain, got fallout.

        I spoke to a Washington DC EPA tech who told me he was watching the same pattern as I was seeing, although he downplayed the historical significance of the readings.

        US EPA Radnet readings were HIGHER in November of 2011 than they were in March of 2011.

        Plenty of stuff has burned up at Daiichi, but there is no doubt plenty is left to burn, as well.

        X-PM Kan said nuclear dominoes was always his biggest fear. Other plants besides Daiichi had significant problems as well. We will probably never learn how significant, even if their emissions cause our death.

  • Lady M

    I am fascinated by, and very interested in, the hypothesis mentioned often on this site (and reiterated by harengus_acidophilus above) — ie, that there aren't actually any fuel rods left in #4 SFP and this whole upcoming removal scenario is a sham. I think it will be very telling to see what "news" is released by Tepco a few days or a couple weeks after the #4 removal effort begins. If we hear something to the effect that "all spent fuel has been successfully removed from #4 and is now safely housed in <wherever>, I am thinking we can be pretty darn sure that the whole #4 remediation effort has been kabuki theatre.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      It's going to go on every day for over a year, at least. So you will be waiting a long time. Don't hold your breath.

    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

      I respectfully disagree and will be somewhat relieved but they still have 12&3 to empty which will really be difficult as even robots can't handle the high levels of rads. So if TEPCO successfully empties reactor 4 it's because they are trying to fool the public? I just can't wrap my head around this conspiracy theory as it does not make one iota of sense to me. We will know in a year or more and I do hope the rods are removed without incident and people can call it a sham or flim flam but for me it will be one small but important victory in this ongoing nuclear nightmare.

      • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

        Moonshellblue,

        When something doesn't make sense, figure out a possible scenerio where it DOES make sense…no matter how crazy it seems.

        You'll find it if you try.

        • harengus_acidophilus

          Pattern matching

          Just look at the structure of these "arguments".
          Well composed, from an educated tongue.

          No more questions.

          By the way:
          What kind of volunteers don't work on weekends?

          h.

      • sunpower

        So even when NRC eyewitnesses explained the situation to msb, jepardizing their careers it still makes no sense? Well then tell us how you can prove that what Tepco says is SFP4 looking all nice and new, is in fact what they say.
        Why would Tepco train amateurs to remove fuel rods, supposedly a highly dangerous and technical operation? You say you are all about making sense, so does training amateurs on a mockup make any sense to you?
        Tepco will not allow outside observation of their skit-wouldn't that be illogical to you if after all Tepco wished to prove its public image with transparency and trust?
        You simply cannot do meaningful assessments of radiation point sources in the method you insist is valid, with your geiger counter thousands of miles downplume. Tepco does not allow access to the site to settle this argument once and for all. I have been monitoring continuously since 2007 due to an issue with DU at a local military base upwind. I monitored Fuku from day one. There is no way to separate the various point sources at this end. You should not make arguments that make no sense and then hypocritically say others make no sense.
        Why have the fuel rod believers hyped this removal event so high? Doesn't this just play into the hands of the industry itself who will emerge from a contrived problem-reaction-solution with no proof of anything and doubt as to their culpability in plumegate?
        They are NOT emptying reactor 4. Do your homework plz.

        • moonshellblue moonshellblue

          They will only let the media film one area of the pool, the aesthetically pleasing part, so to speak, do you really think Tepco would spend the money and manpower to build a new crane assembly to fool the public? I have done my homework and it does not add up for me as so many people would have to be behind this conspiracy. I just hope they can successfully remove what remains of Reactor 4 SFP as we went through this same scenario with Reactor 3 which I almost could believe is gone as it looked like a pile of sticks after the detonation vs the hydrogen explosion at Reactor 4. Anyway it will be at least a year before the fuel is removed thus we can return to this topic in 2014 or 2015 on the wings of a prayer.

        • babbo dorian babbo dorian

          I am with you sunpower, … it takes only the task to see all previous vídeos and actual of sfp4 and that's all.
          I think everything has been said so…. good luck for believers in tepco news and us…
          Peace

    • We Not They Finally

      Yes, WHATEVER about this is "diversion" could be useful in covering up the magnitude of exponentially escalating radiation in OTHER parts of the plant. Or if they claim "success" for something they did not even do because no one was watching. Hasn't even begun yet, but this smells outlandishly bad.

  • kintaman kintaman

    This is what we have come to "praying" that everything will be ok. Sadly that does not instill much confidence. Thank you TEPCO.

  • Socrates

    There are several ways of measuring how much water was in sfp 4, or any other seo. Early reports were erroneus that all fuel rods in Sfp 4 burned off.

  • Gradius

    If they need to "pray", then we are already F U C K E D !

  • OldNuke

    Gradius, do you only pray when you are . . . . . .?

  • OldNuke

    The Japanese people deserve our sympathy and help because they have some serious choices to make about what land they have to reserve and not use. This, on top of the things they are going to have to fix and pay for. This is not a trivial thing.
    Luckily we have not yet had this happen here on the same level. It's a danger anytime there are nuclear plants. It's not a safe technology. Theoretically, it's a great way to make power, but in a practical sense it's too dangerous and you can see that at Fukushima very clearly.

    • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

      Their BIGGEST danger is the direction which the wind is blowing when something goes wrong.

      I would bet they will only remove during off-shore winds. Good for them…bad for the US West coast.

      • OldNuke

        Yes, exactly. The biggest danger is if there is a fire or an explosion. That's what spreads the contamination.

        • midwestern midwestern

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_contamination
          Radioactive contamination, also called radiological contamination, is the deposition of, or presence of radioactive substances on surfaces or within solids, liquids or gases (including the human body), where their presence is unintended or undesirable (from IAEA definition).[3]

          Such contamination presents a hazard because of the radioactive decay of the contaminants, which emit harmful ionising radiation such as alpha or beta particles, gamma rays or neutrons. The degree of hazard is determined by the concentration of the contaminants, the energy of the radiation being emitted, the type of radiation, and the proximity of the contamination to organs of the body. It is important to be clear that the contamination gives rise to the radiation hazard, and the terms "radiation" and "contamination" are not interchangeable.

          Contamination may affect a person, a place, an animal, or an object such as clothing. Following an atmospheric nuclear weapon discharge or a nuclear reactor containment breach, the air, soil, people, plants, and animals in the vicinity will become contaminated by nuclear fuel and fission products. … Cases of widespread radioactive contamination include the Bikini Atoll, the Rocky Flats Plant in Colorado, the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster, the Chernobyl disaster, and the area around Mayak.

  • dosdos dosdos

    I am seeing a lot of articles from pro-nuke calling for "sanity", implying it's impossible for anything to go wrong with Unit #4 during unloading of the SFP. They must be sweating it pretty badly in this wave of news in MSM.

  • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

    "Tepco said it has doubled the cabling that will lift the cask"

    Ohhhh…doubling the cable…now I feel REALLY safe.

    Don't REAL structural engineers usually use a 4x factor when designing sorta-critical stuff?

    But I can see, we only talking about what…the possible future of the northern-hemi here?

    The clown show never ends here folks. Step right up. Next up in the center ring is the mutated man.

  • OldNuke

    There are extremes on both sides, dosdos. Most people freaking out have no experience with radioactivity and contamination. It's a bad thing that they don't teach this well in school. Most people have been allowed to be ignorant about it and that's sad, if not downright dangerous. This MUST be taught in high school and college CHEMISTRY and PHYSICS classes so that citizens know what it is and know accurately the facts.

    There are too much politics & money on one side and too much hysteria on the other.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Everyone knows someone who has died of cancer. The chances of getting cancer are now 1 in 2. Understanding the lethal effects of radiation requires knowledge of biology. The nuclear engineers should have been required to take biology and should have been taught scientific thought and inquiry.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Nuke. You should read all 778 pages.
      A Primer in the Art of Deception Paperback – August 1, 2009
      by Paul Zimmerman (Author)
      “The fallout from nuclear detonations, routine and accidental releases of radionuclides from commercial nuclear power plants and the debris of depleted uranium weapons endanger the health of exposed populations. To cover-up the extent of illness created by these activities, a fraudulent science of radiation effects has been promulgated which forms the basis for current standards of radiation safety. Using scientific fact as the arbitrator for truth, A Primer in the Art of Deception meticulously deconstructs the matrix of lies that to date have successfully run interference for all deeds that scatter radioactivity into the environment. In the chapter from which the book derives its name, government sponsored distortions of known facts surrounding the effects of depleted uranium are exposed. In The Most Heinous Crime in History: The Betrayal of Mankind by the Radiation Protection Agencies, evidence is presented which demonstrates how outdated concepts of radiation effects have been left intentionally uncorrected in order to deceive the general public of the health effects of internal contamination with radionuclides.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        [cont.]
        The Chicanery of the U.S. Radiation Accident Registry unveils the charade sponsored by the Department of Energy that falsifies the extent of radiation accidents and the hazards created when radioactive material is liberated into the environment. In The Harlot of Babylon Unmasked: Fraudulent Science and the Cover-Up of the Health Effects of Depleted Uranium, up-to-date research on the biological effects of depleted uranium is reviewed, exposing the corrupted science incorporated into a number of authoritative texts that have given uranium weapons a clean bill of health. Taken together, these chapters expose the most notorious deception in history, the lie that low levels of internal contamination from nuclear pollution are not a hazard to health.”
        http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Art-Deception-Paul-Zimmerman/dp/061523416X

  • OldNuke

    Most of the people in the MSM have been trained how to be TV personalities, not scientists. Most of them have no idea what they're talking about. Taht's a problem too. I will never forget March 11th as long as I live. ONe of the craziest things was listening to the news media.

    "That's the spent…uh…pool there, yes? Before the accident. How pretty. It's blue."

    DUHHHHH. Facepalm 90 times.

    You should never see the spent fuel pit and the sky in the same picture. Never. Ever.

    • sunpower

      Since the topics of media spin and conspiracy theory have been mentioned already in the thread, I would like to show that media is nothing more than scripted idiots working for the man- this will prove it to even the stupidest person-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHK7eCCq4VU#t=35

      Just remember, the ONLY confirmation that this supposedly renovated unit four exists comes from the M$M tour recently. And they were not allowed to video anything except the stage sets.

      I prefer a belief system based on the evidence that is credible.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    I see no hysteria and what I see is a dying planet and a technology that is only 60 years old contributing to the world's demise via constant spewing unnatural poisons which are damaging of all life on this planet.

    This one side you reference is not hysteria at all but common sense and sanity.

    If you can, please identify any cut loose and then regathered manmade nuclear radiation contamination from all sources in power generation, bomb tests etc. that is then used to promote/protect/increase biological life on this planet in any form or process.

    There must be plenty of research papers available after 60 years highlighting all the benefits of manmade radiation contamination and how its being stored, spewed and handled for the added benefits of/to our biosphere and ecosystems.

    I will await for your answers/papers/documentation patiently… 🙂

  • ftlt

    I wish them good luck and positive results…

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Oldnuke…can you explain these positive results for me?

    Please show me the benefit of this Nuclear Technology use in any form/fashion and its waste products in all forms.

    Here is an example, and I have to say that it does not look good to me or to be a very positive outcome, but then I am still waiting to see the true biological/ecosystem benefits from you and your personal years/study/education/research on this Nuclear Technology topic.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2483484/Toxic-nuclear-waste-dumped-illegally-Mafia-blamed-surge-cancers-southern-Italy.html#ixzz2jrGoDnJa

    Hope these people do not become hysterical.. 🙂 They will need this guide for sure.. 🙂
    http://www.nursingceu.com/courses/368/index_nceu.html

  • sweet pea sweet pea

    SIGN THE PETITION HERE} http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/remove-tepco-before-you
    OR ELSE "the work will be carried out by a Tepco-led team and without external supervision."

  • dosdos dosdos

    Denial is a reactor in Fukushima.

  • Shaker1

    Well, anne, I'm not trying to take sides here and I definitely do appreciate your dilligence with links and information here, but I do believe that the point about wording that OldNuke is making is correct in that what radiation we see here comes from contamination of materials. I will also say that I know, and OldNuke won't admit, that I know what people here are speaking of when they use the word 'radiation' and that it's sufficient communication for whatever it truly is.

    Regarding the pool, I haven't looked at the new photos, but the old ones showed quite a bit of bending that has gone on in there. Seems the assemblies are in held in racks of larger groups, which at the top has a flange. Few of those were straight, though I can't say that the depth of the water was a factor in that appearance.

    As much as I believed that there was a fire in the pool, it admittedly leaked, which would also tell me the liner was compromised, I'm not so sure. As I mentioned a while ago, the assembly that they had purported to have fished out of there was still the expected color of zirconium that has not experienced heat over 400F. I've worked with zirconium as heating coils in which live steam was used, and can definitely say that temperature (steam especially at atmosphere) will not change the color or impair the material's integrity. Mechanical damage is another thing altogether. But those things need to come down from there with the building so compromised.

  • Winterborn

    Well said.

  • Shaker1

    I'm crossing every body appendage, and thowing in the sign of the cross and a few hail marys. (Never worked before, but hell, if one considers the trusted information at hand, the acts and information are about equal.)

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Another beautiful women to have both her breasts cut/sliced off and they are all seen here smiling… so very sad is the current Zeitgeist Matrix reality we have created using/going down this Nuclear Technology path 🙁

    This is what manmade false unnatural radiation contamination in all forms can do… 🙁

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/amy-robach-reveals-breast-cancer-diagnosis-gma-article-1.1512918

    • We Not They Finally

      What IS it with you and having women's breasts cut off? This is about the third time you have done this that I know of. Then there was the one about "panties in a bunch." You seem to be fixated on misogynistic images and you need to STOP. Or maybe someone will envision some part of YOU being cut off — hint, it's several inches below the waist. I mean, STOP IT!!! DO NOT DO THIS.

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        Either you start dealing with the truth of what is happening to others inside your gender or more of these breasts will be cut off with smiles.

        Why are you so offended with the truth?

        Should we all just ignore this horrible news and does this beautiful lady look like she led a unhealthy life style?

        This is what "Nuclear Radiation Contamination" does too your gender and you need to face the problem and this truth head on!

  • Lady M

    (Just for the record, re my 5:36 note above — For what it's worth I personally think there IS material in SFP 4 that needs to be removed. I just noted that I'm intrigued by the thought some have expressed that there isn't actually anything there to remove — and I observed that in the event we hear from Tepco a few days or a couple weeks (or other ridiculously short period of time) after removal starts that everything is suddenly hunky-dorey, then we will know something odd is up – ie, the nothing-was-there-to-remove hypothesis would perhaps get a boost.)

    • Kassandra

      I've been following this disaster very carefully by watching the webcams and reading everything I can – scientific, whistle-blowers, activists – and I have concluded that fuel in unit 4 did burn because:
      a. Undeniable changes to the unit 4 building from official press release photos released April 2011 and again in March 2012
      b. Flames I saw on the webcams
      c. Spiking Radnet readings in the US (see post somewhere above)

      I'm not saying all the fuel has melted. Apparently there is more than one pool in unit 4. It is possible that there was fuel in both pools and only one of them burned. Its possible the fires were extinguished somehow. I don't know.

      I do know that unit 4 is only one, among many problems, at the site, which is water logged and could be rocked by major earthquakes.

      Massive steam emissions have been ongoing since the webcams were wet up in 2011. The contaminated water stored everywhere at the site is also contributing to rising rads.

      The remaining fuel at both Daiichi and Daini must be secured before imminent infrastructure collapse and/or radiation enforced abandonment.

      This is why Cisco says its inevitable that the dominoes will fall.

      I still have hope for humanity.

      • We Not They Finally

        Arnie Gundersen just said two days ago that unit 4 is the easiest to fix. And believe me, he is not downplaying how difficult it is! Just pointing out that reactors 1-3 are so radioactive that no one can even get near them.

        • moonshellblue moonshellblue

          Exactly, Reactor 4 is just one of a mountain of problems that need addressed at Fuku and it will take many decades if not a century to accomplish decontamination. NO NUKES.

  • sangell

    I was looking at the properties of zirconium and saw that is subject to corrosion by iron chlorides. Given that SFP 4 was full of debris that potentially had rebar and other steel and iron material and that salt water was used for a time to keep the pool filled what chance is there that the zirconium could have been corroded by iron chlorides. Also is zirconium subject to cathode/anode type erosion?

  • Jebus Jebus

    I think that the "how much burned" issue of SFP#4 falls much less than a full load and more than none…

    #4 spent fuel pool rod removal is hyped and amped to allow for that feel good feeling of accomplishment…

    What about the Ocean?

    What about the coriums?

    What about the other SFP's?

    What about the food and water radionuclide contamination?

    What about the creatures?

    What about the children?

    What about the truth?

  • Jebus Jebus

    ?

    Problems surface at another nuclear reactor at Fukushima plant

    March 15, 2011

    Nuclear authorities are particularly concerned because the fuel rods in reactor No. 2 were at least partially exposed to the air for more than 14 hours, long enough for substantial melting to have occurred.

    Initial reports attributed the fire to hydrogen gas generated by reaction of the zirconium sheathing on the fuel rods with water, which would suggest a fairly high degree of danger. On Tuesday morning, however, Anthony R. Pietrangelo, chief nuclear officer of the U.S. Nuclear Energy Institute, said the fire was actually a lubricating oil fire, which would be much less serious.

    Reports from the scene indicate the water in the cooling pond is boiling vigorously and engineers fear it will soon boil away, exposing the fuel rods, which would allow them to melt. That could have even more disastrous consequences than a meltdown inside the reactor because the fuel rods in the pond are not enclosed in a reactor containment vessel.

    Because of the heat and steam being generated by the pond, workers are having a hard time reaching it to pump more water in. One possibility that is being considered is helicopter water drops similar to those used on forest fires in California.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/15/science/la-sci-0316-japan-reactor-damage-20110315

  • We Not They Finally

    REALLY dismaying but possibly true:

    Arnie Gundersen did an interview with Art Bell on Coast to Coast just this past Saturday night. He said that whatever they might do with reactor 4 was easy compared to what is in store at reactors 1-3, which are too radioactive for anyone to get NEAR.

    "Scary" jut got several zeroes put after it.

  • Ron

    No external supervision. What does that mean. No outside observation? No acceptance of help from non-Japanese experts? If so why? What is this, Top Secret? Come on, get over yourselves already, this is WAY to important to act like face saving children.

  • ftlt

    The attempt is going to happen…

    We'll know soon enough if they can or cannot do it..

    Now is the time to wait a time in patience for the removal attempt at unit 4…

    Jumping up and down, tearing out our hair and keening away can do nowt now…

    Always bearing in mind, there are 500 hundred of more of these world killing toxic machines waiting to fail in the future – plus, a major thermonuclear war waiting to happen at a location near you..

    So, relax and enjoy the show..

    There's sugar soda, candied peanuts and toxic movie butter flavored popcorn in the lobby too..

    I don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to it all now..

    Just make sure you and your family have an industrial sized gas-bottle of nitrogen for after the show.. It's the easy way out after the show/s..

  • Seeker

    @ftlt

    PLEASE explain what you mean by industrial sized gas-bottle of nitrogen as an easy way out. Or anyone else who knows what this means. Please.

    • ftlt

      Seeker: Nitrogen as an inert gas, it is capable of inducing "asphyxiation".. It is both deadly and more importantly a painless way to die..

      It has been proposed for use as the most humane method for carrying out executions..

      Even though, it comprises 70% of the air we breath all the time… When it reaches 90%+ = deadly results happen..

      The Hemlock Society's death bag was a nitrogen fed bag.. Designs of it for sale are now illegal… Its use became popular during the heights of the deadly carnage of the AIDs epidemic..

      I for one support assisted suicide, when there is cause for it…

      In a post thermonuclear war world or multiple meltdown world, it might be handy to have one around for the family – was my point…

      We are creating a deadly world on so many levels – I think this should be discussed… Certainly, in Japan if this FUFU procedure fails and goes on to a worst case level..

      Terminal cancer is an ugly suffering filled way to die…

      Hope, this answers your question…

  • Shaker1

    Sangell, one of the major uses of zirconium is in applications which require sulfuric acid, as it's resistant in lower concentrations. Those applications include the 'pickling' apparatus of steel, removal of the oxide scale that forms in the rolling process when done hot. It can be a dipping-type process in which a crane successively moves the steel in and out of a line of tanks. Believe me, the 'sludge' that forms in those tanks is quite iron-rich. I've built heating coils that actually laid at the bottom of those tanks or rested on the bottom while the coil was held on the vertical walls. The type of corrosion you mention I've only seen at places where the tubing breaks the surface of the contents and just above, where there is what appears to be a concentration of the chemicals in the steam of evaporation. Chlorine is nasty stuff, but I believe the support racks are stainless (which will handle low concentrations but is 70-80% iron) and it seems if the water was leaking from the tank it was then constantly replaced. In nuke plants, the water is constantly monitored for quality, and I doubt that was the case in the beginning or afterward, so I guess it may be possible that the ph and chlorine could have gotten to corrosive levels if even just in specific areas filled with debris that allowed concentrations to develop. Anodic reactions would require an electrolyte. Without testing, it'd be a guess. You'd have to look at zirconium on an anodic chart.

  • Shaker1

    The nitrogen would be to asphixiate oneself?

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    To all bloggers, reporters and fact based interest groups. Most of the reports I have seen on the news, u tube, and different articles on the net, most all keep saying that there are 1500 fuel rods to be concerned with in the spent fuel pool of unit # 4 that Tepco is attempting to remove and relocate to the common spent fuel pool. This information is INCORRECT.. Please note that there are 1331 spent fuel assemblies and 202 unused fuel assemblies. The key word being assemblies. An assembly is a FUEL RACK that holds up to 100 fuel rods each. A 10 slot x 10 slot, square shaped rack that is 15 feet long. These racks(assemblies) usually contain between 50 to 70 rods in them at any given time. At an average of 60 rods per rack and a total of 1533 assemblies in the spent fuel pool, the total approximate fuel rod count to be removed is 91,980 NOT 1500 as the reporters would have you think. These fuel racks are however pulled out with their load of fuel rods so in that sense, there would be 1533 retrievals. In theory anyway, however many rods have been compromised and are unsafe to be removed with traditional methods. Also there is the reactor core that was in the pool as well at the time of the accident. PS Don't forget about the 3 runaway coriums from units 1,2 and 3 that have left the building. Don't hear much about the missing coriums do you? Remember the movie "The Langoliers"? Well picture 3 of those made up of molten lava, the temperature of the sun boring holes in the…