TV: Dam gates ‘shifted’ in Fukushima Unit 3 fuel pool — Damaged by massive piece of falling debris — Concern it could trigger drainage from pool — Tepco: It does not ‘appear’ to be leaking

Published: March 30th, 2015 at 11:57 am ET
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106 comments


Kyodo, Mar 27, 2015 (emphasis added): [Tepco] disclosed that a 35-ton piece of machinery debris might be resting on the inner gate of the spent fuel pool for reactor 3… and that the gate is slightly out of position. Tepco said Thursday that a fuel-handling machine… is touching one of two gates that stand between the pool and the reactor containment vessel [and] both… gates are slightly out of position but said the pool… does not appear to be leaking… If the gates are damaged, it might trigger a water leak from the pool

The Japan Times changed the headline on Kyodo’s report from ‘Debris poses risk to spent-fuel pool gate in Fukushima No. 1′s reactor 3‘ to ‘Setback at Fukushima No. 1 plant threatens reactor 3 rod removal’.

NHK, Mar 27, 2015: Fuel pool gates found shifted at Fukushima plant… [TEPCO] says 2 iron gates that keep cooling water inside a spent fuel pool were found to be out of position… officials say this could affect the removal of debris… TEPCO officials said on Thursday that both of the iron gates in the pool had shifted from their original positions. They say the inner gate was likely damaged by a large machine that fell into the pool. The operator says it will examine if removal of the machine from the pool may trigger water leaks.

Enformable, June 2012: Nuclear engineer Chris Harris identified the “weakest link” which may initiate a spent fuel pool draindown… The gate is a long rectangular “dam” in the side of the fuel pool… The gate has seals so that the fuel pool doesn’t drain into the cavity and dangerously expose fuel assemblies… If the seal were to fail, then the fuel pool would drain to dangerously low levels right through the damaged gate.

Chris Harris, former licensed Senior Reactor Operator and engineer, Nov 2012: “One of the Tepco releases that really intrigued me was that there is something called ‘curing material’… to me it means they know about a tear or a rip in the spent fuel pool liner [of Unit 3 and] they tried to repair with some sort of epoxy and something that needs to cure or cure time on it before they can proceed.”

Tepco, Sept 2012: Prior to removing the steel beam which fell into the spent fuel pool… liner curing of the pool will be implemented in mid November once the preparation is complete.

See also: Kyodo: Tepco finds 35-ton machine fallen in No. 3 fuel pool -- Appears to have dropped on nuclear fuel racks (VIDEO)

Published: March 30th, 2015 at 11:57 am ET
By

106 comments

Related Posts

  1. New images of Unit 3 fuel pool show debris near surface, possibly in danger of falling inside — Tepco investigating “condition of steel members partially immersed in pool” (PHOTOS) September 13, 2012
  2. Photos: ‘Protection’ to be installed over No. 3 fuel pool at Fukushima — Concern over more debris falling in February 6, 2013
  3. Gundersen: Damage to Fukushima Unit 3 fuel racks could be from prompt moderated criticality, not objects falling in pool — What does Tepco know that they haven’t yet shown photos of? December 21, 2012
  4. Tepco: Debris is missing at Unit 3 — May have ‘sunk’ into fuel pool (PHOTOS) February 7, 2013
  5. New Tepco footage shows debris dangling in Fukushima Unit 3 fuel pool (VIDEO) September 13, 2012

106 comments to TV: Dam gates ‘shifted’ in Fukushima Unit 3 fuel pool — Damaged by massive piece of falling debris — Concern it could trigger drainage from pool — Tepco: It does not ‘appear’ to be leaking

  • Fukushima Day 1480. Get the Rad Word Out, People!

    Fukushima Business Cards 4 U! And everyone else, too!
    http://tinyurl.com/fukushimabusinesscard4u

    These nifty cards are easy to print, pass out and leave about.

    And give Dana D on the coast of B.C. a boost
    http://www.youtube.com/user/BeautifulGirlByDana

    P.S. A refresher course:

    Fukushima Reactors #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6l2YxxQZz4


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  • melting mermaid melting mermaid

    More globally life altering bad news from the peanut gallery. Nuclear…it's what's for dinner.


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  • cosmic charlie cosmic charlie

    How many thousands of pounds of poison in the fuel poola and how many years and earthquakes before they can be dealt with? Keep eating those bananas folks and keep smiling…..


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  • Shaker1

    Juat another thing that should have probably been expected and in expectation's realization consider oneself just unlucky. It could have been worse. Now make sure it doesn't become worse.

    I don't believe there's any obstructions as in those trenchs. I've seen large, shaped, reinforced inflatable plugs work to close off such areas. It's just that there can't be any junk in the area in which it's placed.

    Or maybe they can do a frozen wall??? LOL


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  • This was FD1's R3 on 3 15 2011:

    http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y412/CesiumSky/Cesium%20Sky/ELEmentSky/fukushima-3-nuclear-dirty-bomb-explosion.gif

    This image supposedly shows the pool:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gcVlDAqoto

    I personally believe since there was a report of total inventory release of Xe133 noble gas, that there is no remaining fuel in this 'pool'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gcVlDAqoto


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    • Sorry, Ontological, I didn't see your post here until after making my own post.

      I think we both agree that the entire fuel pool went up in that explosion, and of course we are talking about MOX fuel here.


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      • Marushka Marushka

        Wednesday 16 March 2011, 457 pgs
        NRC FOIA – "ET Transcript"
        http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1205/ML12052A108.pdf

        pgs 320-321 there's no fuel pool left Unit 3
        [confirmed when they had aerial views, spent fuel pool 3, empty,
        G-O-N-E, no fuel pool left]

        236 “we don't always get the priority……and we're looking at Tokyo too.. that's the first-order priority” they are looking at possibility of losing 3 reactors and all spent fuel pools
        Release wouldn't happen all at once. Sequentially..


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    • irhologram

      Ontological. I have a question about light values when trying to photograph unnaturally pink clouds at sunset along the eastern horizon on the east coast of Florida. This pink is deep fucia in the West to the right of the setting sun (trees block view to the left at my home). Here is my question. When trying to photograph this daily, eery pink in the Eastern sky at sunset, the cloud bank I'm speaking of for this question had varying intensities. (The sky is pink in the east with or without clouds to reflect light.) None of the varying pink colors in the digital image showed the pink I saw visually in the east, but instead showed a hot yellow as intense as a setting sun in the actual pictures. Also, when attempting to photograph the deep, deep fucia to the right of the setting sun, the color was merely pink…unnatural pink, but pink, not the scary fucia I was seeing. I wonder if you might know why the digital representation of the colors differs so much from what I see with the naked eye? Is there a way to correct for this? Do you know why it happened? Is the digital representation more or less accurate than what I see?


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      • @irhologram, you gave a very good description of your observation. This phenomenon I first encountered in a web cam image of a South pole station, at a time when the Barium and Cesium from the R3 detonation were rarified.
        http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y412/CesiumSky/Cesium%20Sky/ELEmentSky/neumayerW_1800.jpg

        What appears to be the Sun in the east is a reflection of the Sun in the west BEHIND the cam! This is due to the highly reflective materials in the early FUKU exo-containment release causing the disk of the Sun to appear as if it is in 2 places in the sky at once. So what you observed was mainly the Barium/Cesium reflection/refraction of the actual Sun in the West reflected in the eastern sky. This does make for some strange conditions. When I was recovering from Skull cancer surgery in 2013 in UCLA hospital, I got to witness the hell glow of this phenomenon in an eerie reflection of brilliant orange.

        Here is basically the same phenomenon again seen in LA seen by a Long Beach webcam, but is not so bright orange:

        http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y412/CesiumSky/Cesium%20Sky/ELEmentSky/CECSQEDCsburstdawnLB.jpg

        Sorry to take so long in response I was on a bit of a sabbatical having a what are we going to do about this emergency for our future plans pow wow with family.

        Love your family and be sure you tell them so. We all have a major struggle with sanity/memory retention now thanks to this nuclear travesty.


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        • irhologram

          TY Ontological! Is there an explanation for why the naked eye does see the pink…but the digital camera does see the setting sun in the east? I am supposing a film camera would "see" the pink as I see it? Why does digital respond this way? For example, I was taking pix of the Supermoon in MA back in …not sure…2012? There were two moons, one actually passed behind the other and the surface features differed in not exactly an upside down and backward way. Also, the second moon passed beyond branches that were not the same branches as the first. In addition, the digital light pattern when they were high in the sky with a distance between them that could "share" light" the digital light pattern seemed to extend in a narrowing bend, out and around the second moon.

          Is what we see through a camera digitally … Somehow …dissecting and reconstructing information from what is basically a digital matrix? I know…this isn't the first question at all…the mind (wanders) wonders… Lol


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    • razzz razzz

      When they talk about losing all the radioactive noble gas inventory, they mean that containment was lost at three reactors and all gases escaped into the environment from each of the 3 blown reactors.

      Without containment, everything radioactive escapes to the environment.


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    • Marushka Marushka

      http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1205/ML12052A108.pdf
      Wednesday 16 March 2011, 457 pgs
      pgs 320-321 there's no fuel pool left Unit 3


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  • razzz razzz

    From what I read and remember, the spent fuel pools are made so that if the gate fails and pool water drains away off the top (into the drywell) that the level of water remaining still covers the top of the fuel racks. Of course, not has much water covering over the top of the fuel rods and assemblies (3 feet above?) but the remaining spent fuel is at least 4 years old and older so it has cooled down enough for removal to air cask cooling if they can ever get the spent fuel out in Units 1,2&3. Without water, I doubt the older spent fuels can heat up enough to catch fire or meltdown other than unshielded radiation exposure to workers and the environment.

    The spent fuel pools have no drain or plumbing penetrations near the bottom of the pools so any water for recirculation and filtering is taken off the top. Leaking from near the bottom of the pools would have to be due to cracks or damage to the pools, there is no piping or drains to fail.

    Still, until removal to air cooled casks or a ground level pool, you have to have water surrounding the spent fuel assemblies to safely shield spent and dirty fuel rods from emanating radiation due to decay chains.

    In spots, Unit 3's pool had its thick stainless steel liner peeled away from the thick concrete sidewalls after falling debris hits and TEPCO injected some kind of hardening foam in those void areas for a fix. Never really did leak.


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    • Shaker1

      "From what I read and remember, the spent fuel pools are made so that if the gate fails and pool water drains away off the top (into the drywell) that the level of water remaining still covers the top of the fuel racks."

      Yes, razz. That's my understanding, too. I believe that's the only way they can transfer fuel from the reactor to the pool or the reverse and have it remain underwater at all times. What flows off is basically the water shielding above the racks.


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    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      The fuel in SFP3 must be in bad shape.

      https://vimeo.com/28222223

      Water was very radioactive, fuel pellets went flying. Says a lot, and shouldn't be forgotten when musing the SFP fate.

      35 tons is pretty significant. Must be some damage from that.

      Photos show greatest damage over the SFP. If the SFP didnt explode, then the reactor explosion blasted diagonally out over the pool. However, the damage looks as though the blast originated from the pool rather than a diagonal blast. Either way, its hard to imagine the SFP contents being undamaged. It goes without saying that any press release from TEPCO is highly suspect for truth and accuracy.


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      • AirSepTech AirSepTech

        I think we all know what's coming next, once they get this minor bs story solved.

        What a load. The pool 'must' be designed to be safe, even if there was no gate at all. Did they really make the gate so deep that water would NOT cover the fuel. Can't imagine that. That is beyond stupid, but it is possible, they are nuketards, deniers of logic, knuckle-dragging-rockburners.

        So pump some water out and fix it. Big deal.

        Then lets see that 'undamaged fuel' come out. ;)


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      • razzz razzz

        From what I have read, none of the fuel pools blew up, always had some water in them to cool the fuel rods even if it was steam wafting by.

        3's spent fuel pool has damage from falling debris along with the fallen fuel handing machine and bridge sticking in it.

        TEPCO had posted a .pdf about the conditions of the blown Units and a drawing showing the most likely areas to fail during the explosion. One area was called the 'top head manhole' for getting into the drywell located on the side and top of the drywell near the fuel pool. That area lines up perfectly with the exhaust blast during the explosion into the overhead roof tresses.

        More than likely Unit 3's blast was exhausting through this failed manhole during the explosion and carrying bits and pieces of the failed reactor into the mushroom cloud like directed from a gun barrel. I don't think any of fuel in the pools ever blew up.

        Pictures of any fuel pools, look intact from then until now. Just full of fallen debris but still holding water. If pictured steaming then they are still holding some water.

        TEPCO must know by now how the reactors failed at the weak points but their information is sparse. I have a TEPCO .pdf called: 'Causes and Countermeasures: The Accident at TEPCO’s Fukushima Nuclear Power Stations' March 12, 2012

        I can't find the link to it on the TEPCO site (surprise, surprise). If any wants it or wants to make it available on a website, let me know, I will email it.


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      • PhilipUpNorth

        CodeShutdown, yes, SFP3 has a bunch of damaged and leaker fuel assemblies.
        But the fuel assemblies in the SFP were damaged by a crane and numerous roof beams falling in FROM the explosion.
        Not, as Arnie says, as a result of an explosion IN the SFP.
        That means, there are likely to be fuel pellets loose, on the bottom of SFP3.
        Got a shop vac, anyone?
        This is what caused the high cesium contamination in the water.
        But, the nuclear explosion in Unit3 occurred in the reactor, not in the SFP, IMHO. ;)
        Arnie was simply wrong about that.
        Love ya, Arnie! :)


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    • garrrycoper

      "…the remaining spent fuel is at least 4 years old and older so it has cooled down enough for removal to air cask cooling…": not that sure because mox spend fuel rods have to be cooled much longer than common spend fuel (my memory may be wrong but i remember it was something like up to 2 years for usual fuel while it wasn't less than 5 years for moxed fuel).


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  • I still have a hard job believing that there was much left of the unit 3 fuel pool after that massive explosion on 14th March 2011. Here's a short video clip of the explosion, and to give some perspective, the stacks shown in this clip are as high as a 30 storey building…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp77oZ0yt-I


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    • bo bo

      RobG – there was a discussion on that a few days ago here – http://enenews.com/govt-expert-fukushima-emitted-67000-times-plutonium-241-japan-atomic-bomb-fallout-nuclear-lab-events-fukushima-resulted-plutonium-contamination-large-areas-oceans-officials-molten-fuel-particle/comment-page-2#comment-650384

      Still can't wrap my head around it but good varying views and links there in this thread.
      ( sucks.. MB is making it harder to find threads :( )


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      • Thanks, Bo. As an infrequent poster on this site I often find it hard to keep track of what everyone's saying here.

        I believe Dr G did a very good piece, a number of years back, on the unit 3 explosion; and one reason it's good is because Dr G gives lots of authorative links.

        I can't access the doctor's blog at the moment, to give you a direct link, so I'll have to make do with this…

        http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news/intrnational/2012/02/28/3135.html


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      • And yes, ENENews is Troll City (and they're not always blatantly obvious).


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        • bowling

          Bo had a video from the 50s of japanese killing 2 birds in a cage in 4 minutes with cobalt 60. Bo is one of best sources here for info.
          I am.interested rob g if people in europe avoid certain places because they know they are radioactve contaminated. Like in italy where the mafia dumped all the nuclear waste or sellafield or the.plutonium processing plant in france that discharges into the ocean. I personally.will not go close to carlsbad new mexico after wipp. there are beautiful parks in utah and arizona i.will not go to because i know there are huge uranium processing plants where polonium, thorium, radium, uranium dust waste is alllo


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          • bowling

            alowed to blow freely. i do not like going near hanford. near santa susana. near some.of the more scary npps in the midwest east. i dont like st louis. i dont like.los alamos or alpine texas.


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            • melting mermaid melting mermaid

              Bowling, don't I know it. We're trying to move and Everywhere has something that makes me wanna x it off. Stupid nuclear. When trying to find a safe place to move your young family I think you'll find, its a small world after all. Gulf of Mexico, no. West coast, no. Rocky mountains, nope. Smokies, well oak ridge and Halliburton screwed that plan. New Mexico, wippee. Georgia, Savannah nuclear sight. Carolinas, yeah. Pennsylvania, fracked and TMI. It's driving me quite mad. I feel like that Indian with the tear in his eye looking at all the litter and pollution. What a mess we've made of our lovely planet.


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              • bowling

                i have been around in my time. i.really liked alaska but have no.desire to go back there after 311. I think montana is nice mm. i.cqnnot live in densely populated areas personally.any more. i was always mad about the midwest and east having ao many npps too. west coast is put. idaho, utah nevada, nm, az, colo radioactive shitholes and they wanna build an npp in the worst place posaible in utah. a state of morons. hanford is awful though i think teri is far enough away from it.


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              • HoTaters HoTaters

                Melting Mermaid, I totally understand what you are saying, and I feel the same way. All the places we wanted to go to retire are now radioactive S***holes. What a world. I wanted to go and retire in Tennesse, Kentucky, or Oregon or Washington.

                Now I also know the four corners area of the U.S. is also heavily contaminated due to uranium mining, etc., etc.

                It's like the playground watchers turned their backs when the nuketards started building things in the world sandbox. They took also the most beautiful places on earth (the U.S. at any rate) and turned them into glowing green hellholes.

                Sorry I'm so negative. Sometimes I get angry. Relatives of mine who were well in 2011 are dying of cancer. My sister in law's Mom is dying of lung cancer in Hawaii, metastasized to her brain before it was found. She had her second brain tumor removed and is dying a month later.

                She was an active, healthy lady in her 70's and played tennis daily, when I saw her in 2013. Less than two years later, she is dying. I'm guessing she didn't know about the plumes, and sucked down a lot of hot particles when she was out enjoying her Golden Years, playing tennis.

                So many people around me are dying of cancer. It just makes me sick. So the nuke pukes can take their breeder reactors and shove them.

                Forgive me for the rant, I'm hurting today over the suffering of family, in-laws, friends. I'm pretty sure Fukushima/WIPP probably caused their cancers.


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          • Hi, bowling. Although there's probably a greater awareness in Europe (because of Chernobyl, of course, when us Europeans were downwinders), in general I would say that people in Europe are as blissfully unaware of nuclear dangers as people in North America.

            There are exceptions, such as the city of Geneva, which has long declared itself to be a 'nuclear free zone' (ironic, since many WHO branches have headquarters there). London, too, for a time in the 1980s declared itself to be a 'nuclear free zone'. Roughly speaking, about one third of European countries don't have nuclear power, despite having the technology and resources to do so. If interested:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_European_Union

            Of the European countries that have thus far refused to go nuclear, Ireland stands out, because of course it's downwind and downstream of Sellafield. The Irish know what sky high cancer rates are, and the Irish government has taken the British government to court a number of times over this issue.


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        • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

          quote RobG "And yes, ENENews is Troll City (and they're not always blatantly obvious)."

          —-

          Hi RobG , with all due respect , insecure but well meaning people could feel they are the target of such vague comment's that could be applied to anyone since noone is perfect.. i'm speaking from experience..

          People should be sure what it is that bother's them about other's , then say it in their face so it can be defended as a misunderstanding or proven..everything else is just innuendo targetting everybody..but mostly nervesystem's on the edge of paranoia ..


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          • DisasterInterpretationDissorder, with the greatest respect it would perhaps be naive to say that a site like ENENews would not be targetted with a massive disinformation campaign, and a very sophisticated one at that, given that the nuke industry has these kind of resources (and I don't think many here would doubt that), and given that ENE is a news aggregator; ie, this is not Alex Jones or David Icke land here.

            Everyone should feel comfortable posting here, and let the readers decide whether a poster is genuine (no matter if it's anti-nuke or pro nuke) or whether a poster has another agenda.


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            • bowling

              I have a huge chip on my shoulder about nuclear radiation robg so i can get zealous about the truth getting out. You are a level headed guy. This is a very diverse group of people. i love anne but she gets carried away w praise stuff. some of us are isolated because of our views unfortunately. many are rebels and see stuff on rense so people acuse them of bein all kinds of bs. Tai was a mole.until majia came then turned into monster. if someone.is blatantly disrupting lying or harrassing you can say something. i was on her a while in 2011 butgot really sick. There has been crazy shit going on and there were maybe some witch hunts. Ness was pretty strident and domineering and i do not think.she understood this site but she was nice enough to admit it. some trolls or people just selling stuff might be well.enough left alone


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              • bowling, people who are conscious of what's going on have to come to terms with some very, very heavy duty shit, and that's not easy on the soul.

                Some of us go a bit cranky, some of us turn to religion, some of us turn to drink/drugs, some of us put a bullet through our head, etc.

                But we can overcome the problems in this world. We need to keep our own heads together in the first instance, and secondly we need to stick together.

                We can do it, folks.


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                • earthsmith earthsmith

                  True RobG but we need to come together first then stick together.
                  The soul can handle it, for it has already seen.
                  It is the conscious being that has the difficulty accepting, especially that others would truly want to harm us and our only planet. But is a lot deeper than nuclear even though nuclear is the ultimate silent killer played off as genetics.
                  I used to say it often, the children are not afraid of the truth.
                  speak to them and the honesty is astounding.
                  speak to most adults and the competitiveness, combativeness and subconscious dogma are astounding.


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            • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

              Thanks for responding and explaining very well RobG , i think we both have a point..just need some fusing :)


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    • Yeah, Rob; I am sure there is no such thing as a SFP, "within", unit-three. For them to even begin this farce, after the sham of unit-four, is beyond incredulous! The thing is, too many dimwitts will believe it, and will use it as ammunition to counter any arguments we have.
      That is the point of, "Daiichi unit-THREE spent-fuel pool garbage removal" (scam.) Get the audience on their side, out of desperation.


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      • BanReactorsForever BanReactorsForever

        Since the huge dirty bomb reactor nuclear blast at #3, I do think it is best if we assume there is no spent fuel intact in the "pool" at #3 unless proven otherwise. True enough that immediately following the nuke detonation there were pics and video of lots of steam coming from where the pool seemed to originally reside but there are huge gaps in time after those pics. Time when the fuel pool very likely melted down and caught fire, as seems to be shown on other cam vid shots. All available evidence points directly towards the sfp#3 inventory of death rods having gone up in smoke soon after the mega blast. Recall that there was south rad fuel blown all over the place from the blast that it was too radioactive to work there at #3. It melted all those steel beams and columns. The spent fuel pool caught fire. There are pics of the Black Rad Death Smoke pouring from the ruins for some time after the blast. Lots of things put of black smoke when burning. Zirconium+Plutonium+Uranium fuel rods certainly put off black smoke when burning. Fukushima is the worst lie in our generation


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    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Greetings, RobG, like you, I'd be surprised if there is much left of the #3 SFP. Having watched closeup video fly-overs of Reactor 3 and its building, seeing the steam and smoke coming out of the building near the Reactor and the SFP (both places), my take is there was severe damage to the Reactor, and IMO the SFP detonated sky high.

      Or if the Reactor blew sky high, it blew the crap out of the SFP, and in my opinion, the SFP was also severely damaged.

      One need only review the high definition pictures and video fly-overs to see the reactor and SFP were severely damaged. At least one side of the Reactor 3 building was blown to bits, and sits at two stories high. It's my understanding the building was originally six or seven stories tall, and the SFP (not the equipment pool) was at the fifth or sixth floor level.

      Lots of good people here have posted schematics, and detailed explanations on locations of things inside the SFP building. I'd be surprised, and I guess, pleasantly surprised, if there were much fuel of any type left inside the building.

      If such a thing as a "pleasant surprise" were possible at all in this slow motion global scale train wreck.


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      • HoTaters, I think it's safe to assume that fuel pools in both unit 3 and unit 4 went up in smoke (that we are now all breathing in).

        But the fundamental thing is, we now live in ersatz democracies, and thus the truth is never told to the plebs.

        Only until we take back democracy will the mass murder for profit stop.


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  • harv33021

    It continues. A perfect example of "SH*t Happens." When will it stop? Not in my lifetime or that of the planet. Regrettable (sarc).


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  • Hello

    I’m a new user of this forum but have been following your comments for a while. It seems most of you are, as I am, armless in front of this catastrophic event one of the many others in the field of nuclear power.

    A few questions can be proposed to go to the root of the problem.

    Is the increased rate of radioactivity related to the nuclear industry or the nuclear industry a result of the amplification of human footprint with the acceleration of his predation and harvesting capabilities as a result of developing his technology ?

    Is it a unavoidable consequence of trespassing a limit in the use of energy ?

    As we know in physics, over a certain point things get out of control and human activity, when looked at as an experience in a lab, seems like one that is out of control.

    Nature can deal with life expressing itself as long life forms use their natural members and organs . When humans amplified and accelerated their natural functions an exponential phenomena occurred where they became more and more unconscious, overwhelmed by a sense of power that translated in greed.

    From there the entropy of the system was to big to stop.


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    • AirSepTech AirSepTech

      Yes to your questions.

      Exponential Growth is our way of progress, it will be our collapse as well.

      Good stuff here:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY


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    • bowling

      There is a lot more radioactive waste.in the united states than I could have ever concieved of atomicnerd. I learned more about nuclear and medicine , toxicology, than I ever learned pre311. When it happened I knew it was totally fubar. Many people heee know a lot about nuclear thats why they came here post 311 and got involved writing about it. It has also been my experience that though many are blissfully unaware they atill have a nagging concern in the back od their head that something aint right. When things chrystalize for them a loved one gets sick they see or hear something that pulls them put of the matrix or god forbid they get sick their eyes open.


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    • Shaker1

      "Is the increased rate of radioactivity related to the nuclear industry…"

      Yes.

      "…or the nuclear industry a result of the amplification of human footprint with the acceleration of his predation and harvesting capabilities as a result of developing his technology?"

      If I understand this portion correctly, it seems as if you're saying that the level of nuclear utilization is predetermined by the of human nature. Am I correct?


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    • razzz razzz

      The nuclear industry does not account for accumulative affects of manmade radioisotopes. Apparently all manmade nuke waste is part of a natural occurrence that nature can deal with in time even if Earth ends up looking like Mars…it is all natural according to the nuke freaks. Supposedly dangerous nuke fallout and nuke waste safe storage is a temporary dilemma. Quantifying the problem hasn't been addressed, largely ignored but no less real equates to madness due to a dumbing down of human psyche.

      If you say you are aware, are you really aware?

      Just watch a monthly WIPP meeting. Those officials are absolutely insane while pretending to be rational.


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    • freebywill

      translation of the front page of http://www.ecoagir.org/

      Ecoagir is the spokesman of a message of peace and sharing across its objective of respect for life. To get there, we support a lifestyle consistent with the basic needs of all living beings. The biodiversity of a balance by a consumer world that fills the basic needs in a simple and healthy life.

      The foundation Liberate Earth project becomes a vehicle available to get there. Open living spaces for humans who are willing to share by adopting a diet and energy efficient practices. Vegetarianism, meditation, pooling resources for a global equity
      Offer your support to this project, send us your proposals, grant us your help.

      bienvenue au le forum (sp)


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  • tinfoilhatbrian tinfoilhatbrian

    Anybody know how many rods left if any in No 3 SFP? Is somebody going to epoxy up the hole gushing radioactive water and what not? Didn't that blow sky-high? And wouldn't it be nice if we could access satellite data in real time for gamma rays? They must have a dozen up there correct? Probably a lot more. How about from an airplane somewhere? That's the least TPTB could do for the rest of the apes! Until then..Peace!


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    • Obviously, TPTB have all the data (from spy satellites, etc) but won't release it, even though we as tax payers fund it all.

      There's something very wrong here.

      Let them eat cake, springs to mind.


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    • razzz razzz

      Here's a general unofficial breakdown of fuel at Daiichi. Of course, 4's pool is now empty (and it reactor).

      "…The spent fuel pools are of significant concern, Marvin Resnikoff, a radioactive waste management consultant, said in a Wednesday press briefing organized by the nonprofit organization Physicians for Social Responsibility. Resnikoff noted that the pools at each reactor are thought to have contained the following amounts of spent fuel, according to The Mainichi Daily News:

      • Reactor No. 1: 50 tons of nuclear fuel
      • Reactor No. 2: 81 tons
      • Reactor No. 3: 88 tons
      • Reactor No. 4: 135 tons
      • Reactor No. 5: 142 tons
      • Reactor No. 6: 151 tons
      • Also, a separate ground-level fuel pool contains 1,097 tons of fuel; and some 70 tons of nuclear materials are kept on the grounds in dry storage.

      The reactor cores themselves contain less than 100 tons of fuel, Resnikoff noted…"
      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nuclear-fuel-fukushima/


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      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        razzz, you repeat that SFP4 is empty, as well as the reactor. Also that there were no explosions in any SFP.

        But this leaves an important unanswered question which I always repeat; What was the source of the immense explosion in Unit 4? How could the original information from the NRC, DOE (men on-site) and TEPCO about the ripped and leaking SFP, no water, zirc fires, huge radiation etc be so wrong? Its suspicious that all the worst official information was later found wrong with nothing but success in its place. How could SFP4 be safely emptied when fallout specifically from the pool was found around the world?

        In unit 3, one can see the incredible damage, the entire roof blasted to smithereens, with the most damage over the SFP. Could all that damage come from the top head man hole? AGreenRoads article on SFP3 has Nuckelchens video showing what appears to be a fuel assembly about half gone, burning, standing upright on the operating floor.

        The theory that TEPCO is telling the truth about success at Unit 4 and 3 is unsubstantiated when considering all the data. I agree there is water. This water appears green and murky, which contrasts the crystal clear blue water in the underwater pics. There is one underwater photo showing green murky water with radiation creating speckles on the camera sensor.

        I would like more theories from you and PhilipUpNorth regarding the unanswered questions, instead of reiterations of TEPCO successes!


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  • cosmic charlie cosmic charlie

    RobG – Thank you for that video link. If you watch closely at the upper right corner of the #3 reactor building you can see the prompt criticality that occured in the fuel pool. Whether this was caused by low water level and over heating or the "shine" from the reactor's fuel dumping out into the basement we don't know. But those of you who surmise that the pool's fuel blew sky high are most likely correct.


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    • cosmic charlie, also look at the unit 4 fuel pool, way up top on a mark 1 boiling water reactor, and we're told that this is still intact, and had the big media propaganda exercise about it.

      Huh?!

      But remember, black is white and down is up.

      Neocon radiation good, communist radiation bad.

      Feck, what a world we've created.


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  • cosmic charlie cosmic charlie

    And that was what Helen Caldicott's worst fear was – that a fuel pool would burn up. Number 3's obviously did. And there were fires in others. So the astonishing numbers that have been coming out are real. And real bad for life on Earth.


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    • charlie; Do you remember when Tepco (and the rest of the nuke-cartel) put out the word that the spent-fuel pools, in units 1, 2, and 3, were empty of rods? Now, what?
      Did they mean these pools were emptied by the explosions??


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      • Shaker1

        Well, for my part, I just quit speculating about it. It's done.

        But if you can follow this thought-trail…

        It's a known fact that pieces of fuel rod and fuel materials have been found outside of the buildings. I think everyone agrees. So where did these fragments come from? Tepco isn't admitting any large breaches of containments except in the basements and the RPV pedestal, right? So how do these get outside the buildings? Did they just have fuel laying around outside the pool that could fly away with the tops of the buildings? (In 4, maybe.) What is the only place in the building other than the RPV and PC but the SFPs?

        Tepco seems to think that's a trick question they don't have to answer, unless I've missed something, which is altogether possible. Anyone actually remeber seeing some explanation that wasn't prefixed with 'We think…'?

        As I watched the process with the SFP at 4 (which leaked and they did have to do some major shoring for fear of it falling) I asked myself how that could be, then stopped giving it much thought. Who really knows isn't telling.


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        • razzz razzz

          If you have a nuclear excursion in a fuel pool from a fuel rod chain reaction, more than likely all the water in the fuel pool is going to flash to steam. For a nuclear reaction in a fuel pool the cubicles that house the fuel assemblies and are lined with boron to prevent any criticalities, would have to be destroyed first. They all seem to be still intact, even in 3's pool with all the junk laying on them. I would think early on TEPCO started dumping in more boron or neutron absorbers into the fuel pools water to further prevent any possible criticalities.


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          • What's intact, Razz? The fuel-pools? I have searched every photo from building-4, and not only are the floors missing, but there is no spent-fuel pool (hasn't been one, in there, since day-one.) The documents released via FOIA confirm that the pool caught fire (at least twice.) However, if it was burning, this is what blew up and blew out from unit-4.
            Now, we all know these pools (the spent-fuel pools, not the common pools) were situated up top; stories eight through ten is where they were. When Tepco removed the upper stories of unit-4, they would have had to also remove the SFP. In fact, before placing that kevlar tent over unit-4, they cut the building down from ten stories to four stories.
            So, what I am saying in my usual ironic manner, is this: there was no spent-fuel pool in four. There couldn't be. If it was possible for the SFP to drop down, symetrically, the pipes would have disconnected, the water would have left the pool, and the zirc rods would have caught fire (air creates fire in the case of zirconium). This is, in my opinion, why the bits and pieces of rods were found all over the FDNPP campus, as well as up on the mountain and in the streams, etc…

            So, no; I'm not really looking for proof of the SFP-offload, as it simply was not possible, for the reasons I stated.
            I am looking for SFP-3. If anyone can prove to me that the SFP in unit-3 is intact and has rods in it, I will pay 'em $100 for that proof.


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Shaker1, think Equipment Pools. If fuel rods were being transferred or temporarily stored in the Equipment pools, that could also be a significant source of nuclear slag, and/or Fuel Pool fires and explosions. We have speculated here for some time BOTH fuel pools at Reactor 4 have melted out. First the SFP, then likely the Equipment Fuel pool at a later time.(Unless I have the sequence reversed.)


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          • Shaker1

            Hi, Ho Taters.

            As far as Unit 4 goes, I think you have the sequence reversed, but that's beyond the point at this point. It's not that it doesn't matter, just that I can't know any more than I do without some other input. It seems as far as Unit 4 goes, it seems that the leak in the SFP and the fears of it breaking away from its normal position has been forgotten.

            Seems that in 4 they were ready to begin refueling after work to handle MOX. I also don't buy the migration of hydrogen from Unit 3 as the source of its explosion for a number of reasons. If Unit 4 was in the stage that it was why is the damage so low in the building?


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            • Then again, Shaker1; the offload-hoax was simply distraction. If the worlds' population thinks (thought) Tepco's yakuza was removing rods from unit-4, the world thought there was hope. Of course, considering what else happened throughout the site, there actually is/was no hope. Now that they say they did such a great job in unit-4, and that's finished, it's time for a bit more distraction.
              And this is why they're talking about SFP-3.
              It's all a sham to fool the people into a false sense of security.

              No way is there actually a SFP in that pile they're still calling, "reactor-three". If there is any sort of pool, it would be a pool of water, down in the basement (and it is full of all sorts of debris, to be sure.)


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  • Jebus Jebus

    lol

    Really? #3? The gate's ajar?

    Ono!

    Dam gate shifted!

    Reactor 3 Nuclear Explosion at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3Ofs6R9cg

    lol…


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  • Who puts this garbage out into the universe?
    Seriously; POOL? Spent-fuel pool?
    Has nobody even LOOKED at unit-three? If not; please, before you read anymore, go and look at pictures of unit-three. If you can find a fuel-pool within unit-3, I will give you a hundred bucks (tax-free, via paypal…; seriously.)

    I cannot believe Tepco is starting another fuel-pool SHAM.., but they are. I guess it is so the world can say, "Ooohh, the Japanese are doing so great! They're cleaning up the fuel-pool in unit-three, now!" And, then there will be months or years of that trash in the (s)news(zzzz) reports. And folk like Gunderson can show up, all over the tee-vee, and say how removing the rods will be like extracting 24 hookers from Hugh Hefner's hot-tub.., with their legs and arms bent around one-another.

    I don't think I can handle *yet* another fuel-pool LIE!
    Honestly! UGH..


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  • dosdos dosdos

    Both doors could not have been damaged by falling debris. But I think we know that. I think we're lucky that the criticality in the reactor set off a smaller one in the SFP to balance the forces. Otherwise the SFP would have been completely drained with no way to plug the leak. I know it's hard to imagine Unit 3 having been worse, but it could have.


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  • PhilipUpNorth

    Tepco knows they can do something about the spent fuel, while there is nothing to be done about those 3 melted reactors and missing cores.
    Tepco is creating new spent fuel pool drama with SFP3, now that the drama over SFP4 (the building is going to fall, etc.) is gone.
    Ooh, the liner is going to leak!
    Ooh, the gate is going to fail!
    Get the public to focus on SFP3 issues, which we can overcome.
    Defueling SFP3 can and will be accomlished.

    But where is the damn corium, eh, Tepco? ;)

    Silence.

    Nothing.

    Nothing?


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  • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

    Pool liners are usually Stainless Steel, but epoxy coatings are used in some countries.


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  • Marushka Marushka

    NO SPENT FUEL LEFT – UNIT 3 visual confirmation 16 March 2011
    NRC FOIA documents >>pages 320-321
    CHUCK CASTO; Yes, they can't keep –
    7 that's what I was told last night. You cannot get
    8 inventory above the bottom of the fuel.
    9 BILL RUAN: No. What Jim told me
    11
    12 CHUCK CASTO: So, it's drained.
    13 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.
    14 CHUCK CASTO: Right.
    15 BILL RUAN: Yes. Right, right.
    16 CHUCK CASTO: That's what I was saying,
    17 you can't get water in it.
    18 BILL RUAN: Yes, because there's no fuel
    19 pool left.
    20 CHUCK CASTO: Right.
    http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1205/ML12052A108.pdf (Source)

    even with power, nothing can be done because there is too much damage to the plant at Daiichi pgs 322-323


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    • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

      So here is the NRC telling us No spent fuel left in #3's pool on 3/16/11. TEPCO has been saying the opposite of this for the past 4 damn years, and NOW they can't move the debris to get to the fuel or the pool might drain out. Think about this for a second. If this isn't just an excuse to try and hide the truth for a few more years…just an excuse so the TRUTH doesn't come out and bite them in the @ss…bite them HARD like "multiple class action lawsuits"! And the lawsuits WILL happen at some point.


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  • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

    High Burnup Fuel requires a minimum of 7 to 20+ years of cooling in spent fuel pools before storage in dry casks.


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    • razzz razzz

      pinksailmatt: The US didn't really know what was going on at Daiichi and had to speculate or assume events. That is why there is confusion or gaps in events found in FOIA documents at the time. The US military knew enough to want to expand the evacuation zone around Fukushima and to get all US nonessential personal out of Japan.


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      • PhilipUpNorth

        Right you are, razzz! :)


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      • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

        razzz…The military DID know…and passed that info to the NRC.
        This is from FOIA ML12052A108…Page 62.

        —————————

        MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, right. And I guess from what we've seen, we've seen some things that we infer that that's on the vertical wall of the building. Let me go back to your original question. I've got some other folks who came in here. We've got John Monager (phonetic) on the phone over at the Embassy. They've got a meeting in about an hour and a half with TEPCO and NISA who are seeking our best advice on what to do for the Unit 1 through 4 (inaudible). Unit 1 and 2 are boiling down. Unit 3 and are experiencing zirc/water reactions. They believe that the explosion in Unit 4 has left the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool with no ability to retain water. They believe that, essentially, the walls of that spent fuel pool are gone.

        MALE PARTICIPANT: Correct.

        MALE PARTICIPANT: So, they are looking for our best advice on how to address that situation.
        They're talking about things like dumping sand on it.

        JOHN MONAGER: Right. THAT's FROM THE MILITARY!

        ——————————–

        They ALL knew the truth. They HAD to in order to get the "talking points" straight between everyone. Everyone HAD to have the same story in order to pull this massive conspiracy off!


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  • bowling

    Mr deathbeard will succumb to the effects of the tainted west coast food because it says it eats it 3 times a day.

    YOU CANNOT STOP FREEDOM IN ACTION DEATHBEARD! Even by hacking and crashing the site. Each person here has 24 hours of freedom in their hearts 24 hours a day


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    I see the new by-line.
    "It's over."

    "Praful Bidwai (dna, March 19, 2015) criticised the media for blacking out the fourth anniversary of Fukushima and reporting about government's plan to triple nuclear power generation by 2020-21. Times have changed; the media appreciates the potential gains of enhancing nuclear power generation in spite of incessant scaremongering by a few, for whom antinuclear sentiment is an article of faith."

    And article of faith.
    Hasn't he been reading here?
    Then He would know this is an ' article of science'.
    It's existential,
    It say so in the definition.

    Existential.

    "The future itself would stand in grave danger, for the failure of nuclear deterrence could pose an existential threat to humanity.
    Terrorism is an existential condition and won't be defeated militarily.
    For a science writer, this quandary is something close to existential"

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Existential


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Link:

    Fukushima is past, India looks forward to more nuclear power
    April 3 2015

    http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column-fukushima-is-past-india-looks-forward-to-more-nuclear-power-2074180

    You, sir, Praful Bidwail, live in a state of delusion, for failing to understand the existentialism of the current situation.
    I dismiss you.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    And then, there is another zone out, that keep trying to tell people what time it is.
    Also, a slam at Bill Nye.

    "After the Fukushima nuclear meltdown in Japan four years ago, Bill Nye “the (self-proclaimed) Science Guy” gravely informed CNN viewers, “This is all bad and very scary. … You know, it’s nothing but danger. It’s nothing but very serious, very, very long-term problems.”

    Wired magazine recently reported that, in the four years since the disaster, more than 96 percent of food, fish and agriculture throughout Fukushima has contained less than one-sixth of the radiation permitted in food imported to Europe."

    No links, and what would that say of conditions in Europe?

    New Definition of ‘Liberal’: People who believe their fantasies should be facts
    April 3 2015

    http://mdjonline.com/bookmark/26557893

    A yes, some mention, of a 'liberal conspiracy.
    New definition of liberal?
    Really?
    How about understanding there are some neither liberal or conservative.
    Republicans understand existentialism the least.
    perhaps, she should I'm more 'conservative 'than she is .
    I would have already tried to have her arrested for 'hate speech'.


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Nostalgia…

    GE Nuclear Plant Inspector/Whistleblower Kei Sugaoko Speaks About Fukushima, GE & Obama

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJjbNw07OUA


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  • demise demise

    A comedy of errors, incompetents and idiot decisions since day 1. The worst disaster in history with global consequences run by corrupt fools who are wholly unqualified to handle the crisis. This should be a global effort, but the absentee leadership in the US is also plagued by incompetents.


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