University Researcher: Portland-area topsoil with up to 8,000 pCi/kg of cesium from Fukushima — Over 10,000% higher than highest levels found by UC Berkeley

Published: November 1st, 2011 at 12:00 am ET
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Oct. 31 — Monday morning in Washington D.C., Marco Kaltofen, PE, of the Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts, discussed current issues concerning radiation exposure in Japan.

Kaltofen is a Massachusetts Registered Professional Engineer engaged in the investigation of nuclear material release. He investigated the transport of radioactive particles in his dissertation research at WPI.

Marco Kaltofen, PE, SOURCE: WPI

Here are excerpts from the description for his presentation, ‘Radiation Exposure to the Population in Japan After the Earthquake’:

  • “The Fukushima nuclear accident dispersed airborne dusts that are contaminated with radioactive particles. When inhaled or ingested, these particles can have negative effects on human health that are different from those caused by exposure to external or uniform radiation fields.”
  • “A field sampling effort was undertaken to characterize the form and concentration of radionuclides in the air and in environmental media which can accumulate fallout. Samples included settled dusts, surface wipes, used filter masks, used air filters, dusty footwear, and surface soils.”
  • “Isolated US soil samples [outskirts of Portland, OR] contained up to 8 nanoCuries per Kg of radiocesium, while control samples showed no detectable radiocesium.”

Read More: Radiation Exposure to the Population in Japan After the Earthquake

According to UC Berkeley, the highest cesium content in topsoil for each location sampled was fairly consistent throughout California:

  • Sacramento, CA Topsoil on Aug. 16, 2011: Total Cesium @ 2.737 Bq/kg
  • Oakland, CA Topsoil on Sept. 8, 2011: Total Cesium @ 2.55 Bq/kg
  • Alameda, CA Topsoil on Apr. 6, 2011: Total Cesium @ 2.52 Bq/kg
  • San Diego, CA Topsoil on June 29, 2011: Total Cesium @ 2.51 Bq/kg
  • Sonoma, CA Topsoil on Apr. 27, 2011: Total Cesium @ 2.252 Bq/kg

The highest cesium levels of any topsoil measurements by UC Berkeley since the crisis began was 2.737 becquerels/kg in Sacramento. This is is equal to 73.9 picocuries/kg. (Conversion: 27 picocuries = 1 becquerel)

According to Kaltofen, the highest cesium levels detected in U.S. “surface soil” were up to 8 nanoCuries per Kg of radiocesium in the outskirts of Portland, OR. This is equal to 8,000 picocuries/kg. (Conversion: 1 nanocurie = 1,000 picocuries)

Kaltofen’s highest findings were up to 108 times greater than the highest findings by UC Berkeley.

Before Kaltofen’s finding, the highest cesium content in US topsoil post-Fukushima was 700 picocuries/kg near Reno at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains by a person affiliated with the University of Nevada. However, this was only preliminary and appears to not have been confirmed. See: 700 pCi/kg of Cesium-137 found in soil from base of Sierra Nevada mountains according to preliminary data

Though we do not know what location in the U.S. Kaltofen’s samples were from (hopefully that information will soon be made available UPDATE: SEE BELOW), we do know that UC Berkeley’s samples were taken in areas that had some of the highest radiation readings in the nation post-Fukushima.

Finally, Kaltofen’s control surface soil samples (known to be unaffected by Fukushima fallout) “showed no detectable radiocesium”, meaning the 8,000 pCi/kg finding of cesium was caused by the triple meltdowns in Japan rather than leftover from atomic weapons tests decades ago.

h/t Fairewinds

UPDATE: The slideshow from Kaltofen’s presentation is now available online via the Fairewinds website. However, it does not provide any specific information on the cesium detection in the US. The only additional mention on this topic is that “US samples had only two isolated Cs-­134 and Cs-137 detections in soil.” It shouldn’t take to long before we find out how many US samples were tested, where they were from, and what the results and minimum detectable amounts were.

SOURCE: Wikipedia

UPDATE II: In Arnie Gundersen’s latest video he says, “There is also data that indicates contamination on the ground in the Cascades, which are a mountain range right up against the Pacific Ocean.” The only other time he mentions a specific location for ground contamination is, “The Rocky Mountains stopped most of the radiation and deposited it on the ground.” Gundersen says there is ‘data’ about the Cascade’s ground contamination, where his statement about the Rockies was more general — So it looks like it was somewhere around the Cascade range in the Pacific Northwest.

See Also: Hot particles found at 2 out of 3 US monitoring stations during April, including Boston -- "There will be an increase in cancers, especially on the West Coast" says nuke expert (VIDEO)

Published: November 1st, 2011 at 12:00 am ET
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Related Posts

  1. Highest Yet: Cesium-137 levels in Northern California soil hits post-Fukushima peak — UC Berkeley blames nuclear weapons tests 50+ years ago September 7, 2011
  2. Head Researcher: Boulder, Colorado a “hot spot” for Fukushima fallout — None of their other US or Canadian samples came close to Boulder’s contamination, except Portland which was even higher April 6, 2012
  3. On the Rise: Highest level of Cesium-137 in Bay Area topsoil since April June 11, 2011
  4. Cesium-137 in soil 40 km NW of Fukushima Daiichi more than highest levels found at Chernobyl March 26, 2011
  5. Cesium-137 levels continue to rise in San Francisco Bay Area topsoil May 3, 2011

229 comments to University Researcher: Portland-area topsoil with up to 8,000 pCi/kg of cesium from Fukushima — Over 10,000% higher than highest levels found by UC Berkeley

  • Jebus

    Welcome to Club Fukushima…
    Sister Fraternity of Club Chernobyl…

    Someone said it earlier…
    Drip, Drip, Drip…

    See, it’s not so bad when taken in small bites…


    Report comment

    • Kevin Kevin

      Yes it was I who refered to the Chinese water torture issues management style.

      The slow drip of reality on the forehead of humanity.

      Its very affective. As many here see and understand.

      The ultimate frustration for us west coasters with children, is this slow and steady drip torture’s our conscience for the well being of our children. I cannot imagine the horror this must be for the Japanese, but there is no doubt the same psychology applies to us folks in North America. And, in a sorted twisted manner, it is worse. As our neighbours, family and coworkers remain completely unaware you cannot even have a level headed discussion with those you love and trust let alone professionals, doctors or agencies responsible.

      The chinese torture analogy is apt. It is like living in a personal prison and each peice of evidence and information only brings you closer to the brink.

      Good luck to us all.


      Report comment

  • alasanon

    ok.
    I strongly suggest that everybody err
    on the side of caution!


    Report comment

  • Steven Steven

    The writing is pretty much on the wall now. Expect the unexpected (probably the silence and blank stare of the ‘caught red-handed’ thief).


    Report comment

  • Checking for more then nuke fleas is critical !
    With the very high CPM readings about the country of late getting higher, a clear indication the counts are increasing and accumulating at a rate to know the fat lady hasn’t sang yet !
    Harvest and children should now be priority ! Go pre 3/11 !


    Report comment

  • Anthony Anthony

    I guess Irradiated Californian is really officially irradiated after all. With the rest of us up and down the same coast for sure.


    Report comment

    • and our other buddy, Irritated Kalifornian. Enough evidence yet i wonder. lol..don’t worry IK. We got plenty of time (*chemfood slaps knee*)

      mmmmm…. cheese http://www.cabotcheese.coop/pages/our_products/product.php?catID=38&id=13


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      • Sickputer

        That cheese looks yummy… I better buy some before Bill Gates or Warren Buffett wake from their slumber and buy all of the pre-holocaust cheese.

        BTW… Like Bobby I have this innate sensitivity to radiation in the air and today was not a good day in Texas. Drove 110 miles through hazy skies and the resulting sinus headache was a 9. Recovering now, but just a warning to all points east of Texas. The releases from October 23 which were massive have arrived in central continent and will be affecting the east coast within the next few days. Pushing over to Europe in another five to ten days. At least the big snow in the east preceded this wave, but some will deposit.

        I can’t see the animation on my phone but here is the stormsurf model:

        http://stormsurf.com/mdls/menu_wam.html


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        • jimbojamesiv

          Are you sure of that, Sickputer?

          My best guess would be that the freak snowstorm in the East was nuclear snow, which is a well-known side-effect of radiation contamination in the atmosphere.

          My understanding is also that winds carry quite fast, so if there really were heightened radiation readings in the Central US, it would not surprise me that by Friday, October 28, the radiation reached the East coast.

          What I also just realized is that what the experts said about readings going higher finally makes sense. Now, we are reaching the stage where the radiation is falling down from the air and hitting the soil, water and life forms (as well as washing onshore, etc. & etc.), and that’s why there are higher readings everywhere.


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          • Anthony Anthony

            That’s my thinking too. Sadly, alongside curiously recently run of info releases claiming and admitting much higher emissions are happening after all.

            Not a good recipe shaping up. Snow hit area Geiger data would be most prudent to collect right now!

            We would be able to not-have-to rely on non-speaking officials and scientists and know what we need to know whether they tell us or not.

            The snows brought that fallout to the ground.


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          • alasanon

            I just want to confirm that it was unusually bad here on the East Coast. I hadn’t noticed anything since 1 week in June and April. August was great, for example. But, this weekend, on the Atlantic side, we were getting blitzed. Rain, too. Now today maps show a clearing in the Jet Stream mass over us with no rain and I feel bright, happy, & shiny again…amazing difference. That stuff will penetrate right through your walls and it’s not decreasing, as of late October!! We even had ugly, black clouds!


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          • StillJill StillJill

            Good point jimbojamesiv,….also,….that answers my ‘inner wonderings’ about HOW the CDC KNEW zombies were coming. Any guesses? :-)


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          • Sickputer

            >Are you sure of that, Sickputer?

            Looking at the math closer New England did get hit with the massive plume on Friday October 28 and that was a definite factor in the snowfall…the jetstream is faster at different times of the year and the lower winds carry more particles (skim over the wave as there is little resistances until they hit significant land mass).

            Look at the speed measured in knots at bottom in the color bar of this Storm surf model(I am on my laptop now and this is the weather model insead of the wave model I posted):

            http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display.cgi?a=npac_slp

            The color shows us most of the wind in the North Pacific is an average 25 to 45 knots (green to orange colors). Nothing is hitting above 50 knots. So the average winds are running 29 to 52 miles per hour: conversion chart here:

            http://www.disastercenter.com/convert.htm

            So how far to the US from Fukushima Daiichi?

            http://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-is-it-between.htm

            Los Angeles 5349 miles
            Chicago 6158 miles
            Boston 6567 miles
            Paris 10003 miles (eastern Japan traveling east)
            Berlin 10548 miles (eastern Japan traveling east)

            How far to those cities for winds traveling traveling at 40 Miles per hour? (40 being the approximate average of 25 to 45 knots)…maybe slower than that though)

            Los Angeles 5.6 days
            Chicago 6.4 days
            Boston 6.8 days
            Paris 10.4 days
            Berlin 11.0 days

            4 o’clock in the morning of October 22 for Chicago time (Japan time was 14 hours ahead) we saw these massive releases on the webcam:

            http://www.youtube.com/fuku1live#p/u/256/yfUBMkddhE8

            That was just over 10 days ago and I am think the plumes are massive and take 2-3 days for the back edge of the plume to clear an area. In my opinion the leading edge hit the central US Wednesday or Thursday of last week and the front edge should be hitting Europe by tomorrow. So I was a little off…thanks for the help!


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    • StillJill StillJill

      Yes Anthony! Some wise, quick mind here,…called him/her “Irritating Californian”,…almost wet myself on that one! Love, love, your minds friends! :-)


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  • dharmasyd dharmasyd

    Prediction! If this info gets out, TPTB will discredit it by saying it was just a grad student’s dissertation material—and, ergo, obviously wrong.

    I doubt they, his academic masters, will give him his PhD. But in order not to look too cold and heartless, they’ll just send him back to re-work his data until it becomes acceptable to the established experts.

    I don’t care about a PhD, I’d just like to be awarded the MCS (masters of cynical snark).


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    • jdstone1

      Here is some info I will let out. Got this stuff from the deep web we could go through it forever but here is the link all kinds of Fuku info from many scientific journals. Have fun

      http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?q=fukushima&t=all&drill=yes&sort=0&p=0


      Report comment

    • jimbojamesiv

      Dharmasyd,

      I’d agree sort of with what you say, but add that TPTB don’t care, frankly, anymore what you think you know, what you read or what you say. They wield a way-bigger pr machine than any individual can ever hope to achieve, and if that doesn’t work, well, then there’s always plan b, but their only goal (yes, they have only one) is to delay and never resolve everything.

      What is the classic line about deny, lie, and obfuscate, and if that doesn’t work, rinse and repeat?

      I’m truly convinced that what we see in the EU financial bailouts, Fukushima and every other social ill or problem is that governments consistently do one thing: delay. Why? Because they hope you die before anything gets done. Governments have their own agendas and their citizens rarely play any role in them, except if they’re willing to be the henchmen/goons or soldiers. I believe that’s a fair estimation of the history of civilization, actually.


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      • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

        @jimbojamesiv

        They should have let YOU write the history of the U.S. textbooks which we were forced to read in school. They made us assimilate all that BS and regurgitate it. So self-serving.


        Report comment

    • StillJill StillJill

      I want THAT degree too Dharmasyd!

      “(I’d just like to be awarded the MCS (masters of cynical snark).”


      Report comment

  • Sickputer

    So if my math is right… This reading in the terms we have become used to hearing for Japan soil (in becquerels per kilogram) is 296 becquerels per kilogram. Bad news indeed. Now the question remains:

    1. Where was this dangerous level detected?

    If verified the You-know-who university eggheads are implicit in the coverup and can never be trusted again for any information… Just like the local, state, and federal officials. It’s the biggest coverup in the history of the world which a small number of savvy folks knew from the beginning of the crisis.


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  • Jebus

    Love is all thats left…
    Turn to your parents, turn to your children and tell them you love them. Don’t let them see you cry…

    Black Sabbath – Dying For Love
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93A-zW1B6ok


    Report comment

  • Cindy

    I wonder what the values ACTUALLY are in mainland milk.. ?

    Milk in hilo Hawaii had cesium, strontium, and americanium, among other things…


    Report comment

    • Sickputer

      Just pulling wild guess out of my nether regions… Mainland milk on average 1/3 of Hawaii contamination. You folks got Fukooed Cindy… Even your resistant ducks.

      It’s all in the math of distance from ground zero…

      Weddings and honeymoons in lovely Hawaii… Very popular still… Until somebody breaks the news to the sheeple..


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      • Anthony Anthony

        Hawaii is the one place I repetitively keep fantasizing to run to. Especially when the heaviness of this topic weighs me down heavily. But I am suspect that Hawaii probably gets more fallout than we do for simply being closer geographically.

        I still might try one more visit. I long for careless days again. And I don’t mean *pretend* happy times, I mean real carefreeness ….


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        • alasanon

          Anthony, For tropical island life, try the Carribean, Bahamas, Jamaica, Virgin Islands, Cuba? I have yet to see Cuba & its surrounds get one direct swipe by the Jet Stream…

          There’s always the lowest part of the boot of Italy?? The Italian Mediterranean…ahhhh. :) I think it even missed the Chernobyl fallout? I think we’ll all learn a lot more about geography soon!


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      • Cindy

        I never said my ducks were resistant, just that they take more radiation to drop them dead than it does for people …

        I’m sure we are all drinking fuku water, as 70,000 homes rely on rain water for all household needs … scary, isn’t it ?….


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      • bluerthanblu bluerthanblu

        As Kevin Blanch said, ‘there’ll be no freelance media that will get in there’ just over the top propaganda machine coverage about radiation in the Pacific Ocean or U.S. Don’t waste your efforts on trying to wake up sleeping sheep. There are plenty of people who are awake but do not know what is going on. Everyone here can be ‘sheep whisperers.’ I’ve tried picking up a few half-awake sheep ears myself, yelling ‘you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out!’ with resulting argument(s). Maybe slowly, the drip drip of truth will sink in. Aside from palliative measures to keep radiation away from us, the food chain radiation magnification will pose the biggest challenge to reducing internal exposure. Over time, it will take less and less food to get more and more radiation exposure. Haitian clay cookies may become all the rage!


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        • Sickputer

          Every Asian-American I have talked to knows how bad it is in Japan except for one of my wife’s doctors who probably knows it also reading his body language but he is more concerned about driving his Lexus and will not entertain thoughts threatening his income.

          But out of all other ethnicities 99.99% have barely heard of Fukushima. Other than my immediate family I have only talked with two people out of thousands that actually felt this is a momentus event and an enormous health hazard even for people far, far away from Japan.

          Five people people in my family and two others I know personally plus some local Asian people I befriended…not exactly enough to fill Noah’s ark.

          On the bright side there are still plenty of aged cheddar cheese chunks for sale…got some 10-month Australian cheese today at Albertsons. Yeah!


          Report comment

  • lam335 lam335

    http://www.fairewinds.com/content/marco-kaltofen-presentation-apha

    slide 18 “Boston air filters had slightly elevated total alpha and beta counts during April and May. Seattle and Boston had positive autoradiographic results during April 2011. All other USA” filters were negative

    According to slide 8, the “Air sampling stations” were in Hawaii, San Francisco, Seattle, Boulder, CO, and Massachusetts

    I wish they would indicate what kinds of alpha and beta emitting particles they found and in what quantities. I think I remember AG saying something about Americium having been detected in New England; I’m guessing that was one of the isotopes they found in Boston.

    I’m not sure how to interpret the chart on slide 18. Is it alpha plus beta for Seattle and Boston, or is it just alpha and beta separately for Seattle? What do the numbers on the X and Y axis represent? Does the X-axis represent dates in April?

    If slide 8 indicates where the air filters were, then there weren’t any in the mid-west or anyplace else on the east coast, so it’s not possible to find out what isotopes/levels were in the air there. But if the really nasty stuff made its way to Boston, some of it must have been in the air over the mid-west and other parts of the northern east coast.


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  • lam335 lam335

    “Americium is a man-made metal produced when plutonium atoms absorb neutrons in nuclear reactors and in nuclear weapons detonations. Americium has several different isotopes, all of which are radioactive. The most important isotope is Am-241.

    Americium is a silver-white, crystalline metal that is solid under normal conditions. All isotopes of americium are radioactive. Americium-241 primarily emits alpha particles, but also emits gamma rays. A mixture of americium-241 and beryllium emits neutrons. Americium-241 has a half-life of 432.7 years.”
    [...]
    Americium-241 is an unstable (radioactive) isotope with a half-life of 432.7 years. As it decays, it releases alpha and gamma radiation and changes into neptunium-237, which is also radioactive. The americium-241 decay chain ends with bismuth-209, a stable (non-radioactive) element.
    [...]
    Once in the body, americium-241 tends to concentrate in the bone, liver, and muscle. It can stay in the body for decades and continue to expose the surrounding tissues to radiation, and increase your risk of developing cancer.

    When inhaled, some Am-241 remains in the lungs, depending upon the particle size and the chemical form of the americium compound. The chemical forms that dissolve easily may pass into the bloodstream from the lungs. The chemical forms that dissolve less easily tend to remain in the lungs, or are coughed up through the lung’s natural defense system, and swallowed. From the stomach swallowed americium may dissolve and pass into the bloodstream. However, undissolved material passes from the body through the feces.

    Americium-241 poses a significant risk if ingested (swallowed) or inhaled. It can stay in the body for decades and continue to expose the surrounding tissues to both alpha and gamma radiation, increasing the risk of developing cancer. Americium-241 also poses a cancer risk to all organs of the body from direct external exposure to its gamma radiation….”


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    • lam335 lam335

      “One source of direct exposure would be contaminated soil. Exposure to any significant amount of Am-241 is unlikely under normal circumstances.”

      http://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclides/americium.html

      “Normal circumstances” doesn’t include when nuclear reactors explode and spew their contents all over a hemisphere.

      So much for “minuscule,” trace amounts that pose no threat to human health. Every “expert” who got on TV and the internet and assured us that there was no danger bears responsibility for the exposures that people in this country received, as do the EPA officials who turned of the monitors to conceal the inconvenient information.


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      • lam335 lam335

        “With a density of 12 g/cm3, americium is lighter than both curium (13.52 g/cm3) and plutonium (19.8 g/cm3); but is heavier than europium (5.264 g/cm3) …
        [...]
        If consumed, americium is excreted within a few days and only 0.05% is absorbed in the blood. From there, roughly 45% of it goes to the liver and 45% to the bones, and the remaining 10% is excreted. The uptake to the liver depends on the individual and increases with age. In the bones, americium is first deposited over cortical and trabecular surfaces and slowly redistributes over the bone with time. The biological half-life of 241Am is 50 years in the bones and 20 years in the liver, whereas in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) it remains permanently; in all these organs, americium promotes formation of cancer cells as a result of its radioactivity.”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium


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      • Jebus

        Why do you think they were flying the choppers in late spring?
        We all know they can detect alpha from a distance…
        Remember, they can detect a radioactive cat, in a car, travelling up I5, going 70 miles an hour..
        They knew!


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        • lam335 lam335

          I thought the choppers could only detect gamma?


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          • Jebus

            So they say. Even if, an alpha emitter will emit gamma too.
            Remember the the trick gamma camera that Tepco had that maxed out at 10 sieverts.

            The DOD has devices that we will probably never know all about…

            They KNEW!…


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          • SnorkY2K

            We had the world’s largest pot of americium 241 sources. Judging by dust patterns, even with that large amount almost all particles would have no detectable interactions out past 18 ft. Most charge the air within about two inches. Ours went out 18 feet just because there were over 15,000 .1 picocurie sources open at a time. There may have been some electrostatic repulsion pushing them faster and farther.


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  • Sickputer

    If we are hearing it right from Marco and Arnie (and Marco looks like guy to have along if you were hunting Jaws) then the Rocky Mountains range blocked a lot of the heavier low particles and made the West Coast a sink for the backwash. I had suspected that was going to hurt the west coast much more than points farther east. Nobody has escaped the Jetstream load, but by percentage COW (the three westernmost states) got Fukooed severely. Add in Alaska, Hawaii, and major parts of Canada. Time to start assessing personal risks before Bank of America fails (coming soon) and the Japanese start selling off US holdings on the West coast. They probably have already started a massive campaign to try and get the best price for real estate before the bottom drops out in the coming year.


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  • chaossquared

    I just keep thinking that this can’t be real. It must be a dream. I try so hard not to be defeated, but how do you survive this? I try so hard not to think about my kids in this equation, because that’s where my world ends.

    If you have the ability, take your kids south as soon as you can.

    And if you are in japan, leave yesterday. Please.


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    • alasanon

      I’ve been begging some classmates and distant relatives on the West Coast to take cover and protect their kids..to no avail! My classmates & friends are just brazen hedonists out in L.A., so I guess they’ll just keep living it up to the end? :( Their theme is no worries. My relatives don’t want to think about it either. They are happy-go-lucky Californians.

      At least I can say I TRIED. And it’s not like they’re not very intelligent, talented people!


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      • alasanon

        How can such intelligent, wealthy people not think twice with this kind of obvious scientific phenomenon well underway?… That’s what I do not understand! :(


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        • chaossquared

          I have family in hawaii, and im in norcal. I know how you feel. Im going to move to s. America next june. All you can do is give them the info. I just hope they see it sooner rather than later.


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  • lam335 lam335

    How can it be that so many scientists and government officials who are guilty of having misled the public about so serious a thing can get away with it and there is nothing we can do about it? How can some kind of justice be gotten for this? How can the people who were complicit in the lies/cover-up regarding this information be held accountable in some way?


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    • westcoastguy westcoastguy

      the only way for this to happen is for people to start waking up. and also what ive been saying all along is these stupid little “occupy” peaceful protests are not going to do a damn thing. nothing peaceful is the right solution in the world we live in. the powers in charge are just too powerful and its our fault for letting them get that way. our founding fathers knew this would happen which is why action is needed. sadly it wont happen unless something drastic dramatically shifts public opinion


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      • lam335 lam335

        re: “it wont happen unless something drastic dramatically shifts public opinion”

        I don’t know what could have been more drastic than Fuku itself, but most people evidently payed little attention at the time and have now nearly forgotten about it.

        While peaceful action may seem impotent, non-peaceful action would only marginalize the anti-nuclear movement. It would make people see the anti-nuclear movement as a fringe movement, while I believe that the majority of Americans would be opposed to nuclear IF they actually paid attention to it long enough to learn about it.

        Seriously, if most mothers and fathers in this country knew that americium (and God knows what else) was floating through the air as their children played in the schoolyard this April, they would be outraged and demand change. But they’re too caught up in the details of everyday life to even pay attention. The question is how to get them to wake up if even Fuku’s fallout didn’t accomplish that.

        Considering how they keep ramping up the power output on aging reactors, we are going to have a Fukushima in the US sooner or later. No doubt that will wake people up, but I would rather see them wake up in time that we can get things to start changing and prevent such a tragedy from occurring on our own soil.


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      • jimbojamesiv

        Doesn’t everyone in the world, starting with the Northern hemisphere, have a strong claim against TEPCO, Japan, GE and most likely numerous other companies, for (a) geiger counters and (b) medical checkups and care for the rest of their lives?

        Didn’t the People of the world just topple the entire system in one fell swoop?

        As I argued during the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, don’t we now own TEPCO, GE, Japan, the US, the IAEA, the NRC, the media who have been selling the lies, etc. & etc. for the damages done to people’s health, mental and physical?

        Aren’t the culprits now beholden to the masses for the crimes committed? People should be storming the beachheads demanding compensation and accountability. People should be demanding officials’ heads on a plate and demanding immediate resignations of public officials and agency heads, who should be detained, prosecuted, jailed and their wealth seized, as I’ve been saying for years. Granted, many senior military officials should be detained for safety reasons as well.

        I apologize for going off on a screed, but, people, stop fooling yourselves. As Bob Marley said, what makes these people so special, were they not babies as you and I? Have they not proven over centuries that they just don’t know how to govern responsibly or effectively?

        Am I losing anyone or am I dead-on target?


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      • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

        @westcoastguy

        “these stupid little “occupy” peaceful protests are not going to do a damn thing.”

        These stupid little occupy peaceful protests will change the world when enough join. You will see.


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    • yogda yogda

      They have been convinced many of us useless eaters must die and this is their way of doing gods work?

      Sounds like something Lloyd Blankfein would say.


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      • VanneV anne

        They don’t actually believe in any god. They practice Satanic rituals.


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        • VanneV anne

          Barack Obama’s Allegiance Is Not To America And God, But To The New World Order And Satan
          October 28, 2011

          “Indeed, a Luciferian philosophy is the inspiration for the creation of a new world order and a one world totalitarian government….

          “What is disturbing about top U.S. political leaders is their blatant disregard for the American masses and their worship of Satan in public. President Barack Obama regularly flashes the famous devil horn hand sign when he is giving speeches or being photographed….

          “And here is Obama’s handsome wife getting in on the action. Notice the right hand in this magazine cover for Ebony. Very clever. But she’s not so subtle in this picture.

          “Throwing up the sign of Satan is a tradition in American politics and culture, no matter if you are a Republican and or a Democrat because Satan cheers for both sides. The ruling elite is a gang, with its own initiation rites, rituals, philosophy, and gang sign, all courtesy of Satan….

          “The Earth is truly Satan’s Kingdom….

          “When you know that Barack Obama is a Satanic thief and a lying psychopath then you’re not shocked when you see him on late night television with Jay Leno calling the mass murder of the Libyan people by NATO drones and Al-Qaeda terrorists a “recipe for success.” In reaction to that interview, the writer at cryptogon.com wrote:
          “’A recipe for success?

          “’The grinning, shill, international terrorist President of the United States talks up the regime’s atrocities on a late night comedy show, with the host, audience and millions of people out in TV land going along with it…’

          “ Barack Obama is evil on the scale of Mt. Olympus, and America is the land of the Dead….

          “Every modern society seems to be under the horrific hypnosis of political and religious power in the hands of totalitarian myth makers who are members of secret societies….”
          http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2011/10/barack-obamas-allegiance-is-not-to.html


          Report comment

  • Sir keekotin

    Oh dear you sheeples.

    Panicing over a banana? What would you do if I had two bananas!

    A large banana has an activity of about 18.4 Bq (becquerel, equal to one disintegration or nuclear transformation per sec- ond), or 0.511 nCi (nanocuries).

    Now you are shitting your pants because of 2.something Bqs and 0.8 nanocuries? That’s your goddamn average banana! Quickly, think of the children!..

    [REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

    Europe got way more exposure from chernobyl than your precious america have in fukushima crises, and we’re not whining our asses off.


    Report comment

    • yogda yogda

      I think you’ve already had too many bananas.
      Just put em down and walk away…


      Report comment

          • so bug out, ya troll. How long you been here, Sir? We had this banana bit out long ago
            http://lieuxabandonnes.blogspot.com/2011/03/why-we-cant-compare-bananas-radiation.html


            Report comment

          • batista

            Haha. Funny, though nasty and extreme.
            What are you’re antidotes, Sir pro-nuke dude tell us. I guess you don’t and won’t ever live just on laughter and on good mood and trust in the technology just like no decent christian has ever lived just on a prayer. You have taken measures though may be you keep your anti-dotes for further down the line if some apocalyptic scenario comes to life elsewhere closer to your home. Tell us, Sir Blaster!
            To me radioactive contamination is like the ultimate hot spice to our daily pollution soup. I’m not sure I love any of this meal. Though I live on it.


            Report comment

            • Sir keekotin

              “Haha. Funny, though nasty and extreme.”

              Thanks, atleast one person on this forum can appreciate dark and twisted humor :)

              I didn’t actually understand what do you mean by antidotes, and once again, I don’t consider myself pro-nuke. Quite honestly I find nuclear reactors scary and can’t imagine why anyone would like to live closer than 100km to one. But yet I recognise the need for them, for now. Let’s imagine for a second that enews suddenly got in control of every nuclear power plant in the world, and the usual suspects from the forum with stilljills and whoopies and breadandbutter and the all the rest got to decide, and turn those things off. There would be blackouts, economy would sink further around the world, and perhaps even wars would break out. Also, since most likely some of the reactors are flawed by design, the lack of power from the powergrid would cause them to melt as the pumps couldn’t be operated.

              As much as you hate nuclear power, you simply *have* to recognise that energy is essential for the world of today. I’m certainly not saying that nuclear is the way to go or somehow great thing. It’s clearly not. But it doesn’t and can’t disappear overnight.

              “I guess you don’t and won’t ever live just on laughter and on good mood and trust in the technology just like no decent christian has ever lived just on a prayer. ”

              Well you got that part right, I don’t believe on deities nor I do get by with a good mood or laughter. Even though, you can’t spell manslaughter without laughter! :D

              And as for the prayers, this would be my attitude towards them; http://aasi.ebm.fi/6566/prayer-vs-hard-work.png


              Report comment

              • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                SK, you didn’t get my point at all. Of course phasing out nuclear does not mean just switching off. My goodness. Nobody ever suggested that.

                It means a change of the existing system, a change certain people obviously lack the fantasy or ideas for, methinks.
                I think so far Germany is an example that it works while still producing cars and steel, and many other countries will follow.


                Report comment

                • Sir keekotin

                  I did get your point. I just exaggerated it to the absurd.

                  Anyway, while you are saying that germany is a example with it’s heavy industries still producing stuff after the plants have been shut down. You know that they simply outsourced their nuclear power to France and all those other neighboring countries, right?

                  It was most of all a PR victory for Merkel which was already in a difficult position, but as shutting down the plants germany became dependent on other countries and europe’s power grid.

                  That’s not very reasonable situation to be in, but it got more votes, but pretending to be green and environment friendly while importing nuclear power generated outside their borders is really.. well, just outsourcing the problem.

                  If they were selfsufficient even after the plants were shut down, I’d be the first one to go “hurray”, but as it is, it really looks to me more like political game of smoke and mirrors.


                  Report comment

    • lam335 lam335

      The point is that NOBODY should be exposed to this stuff. Nobody’s air and food should be tainted by it. Nobody’s body should absorb strontium because they had to walk outside to get to work or school. While earthquakes and tsunami’s are inevitable, the negligence and corruption of TEPCO and its regulators caused this accident to be magnified exponentially. No other type of industrial accident has such far-reaching and long lasting effects as nuclear power accidents do. And few other pollutants, in microscopic quantities, can have such potentially devastating health impacts.

      Where did the nuclear industry get the right to decide what level of risk is “acceptable” for the rest of us? Where did they get the right to decide that X number of cancers is acceptable in the event of an accident? And where did they get the nerve to knowingly lie to the rest of us about the true nature of the threats back in March and April?


      Report comment

    • stock@hawaii.rr.com

      Your “more radiated than thou” attitude is disgusting.

      And indeed, if greed, stupidity, lies, and large economic interests cause us damage, then indeed we are all victims, us and our beloved animals that we ought to be the keepers and protectors of.

      Man, in his highest level of ego, denial, and ignorance, playing with the most dangerous toys ….look Ma, I turned matter directly into energy, I am just like a god!, playing with the most dangerous toys ever created. Playing with toys that can destroy our cells, destroy our DNA, destroy our children, destroy our species. Playing with these godlike toys so we can f’n boil f’n water.

      Mankind cannot be trusted with these toys. What a joke that we allow the so called smartest among us to kill us all as they stroke their own egos, playing god, while killing their own species.

      We are not acting all martyr, we want to end this insanity, stop allowing the brilliant ones to kill us as they stroke their own ego and pocketbooks.


      Report comment

    • AkDave AkDave

      Sir keekotin, Banana or Cesium ??? dumb ass pick your poison what do you want in your gut.


      Report comment

    • Sir keekotin,
      “A large banana has an activity of about 18.4 Bq” ????
      GOT A LINK ???


      Report comment

      • Sir keekotin

        sure,

        http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed081p1440

        use the frase in google to get more hits.


        Report comment

        • batista

          Damn it. “Oh no Banana’s are gonna kill us.” So would Fuku. So would do many other things. Thank god you didn’t mention the radioactivity of Brazilian nuts. They are even hotter.


          Report comment

        • No rabbit holes please, Show us where it is stated 18.4 Bq


          Report comment

          • batista

            Hmm 14 desintegrations per second.
            http://desu-hq.org/2011/03/18/humans-evolved-from-apes-due-to-radioactive-bananas/
            And it seems it’s better to eat meat than to be vegetarian. And why don’t they mention the issue of bio accumulation.
            The poor Japs who made the site I posted a link to are not laughing now.


            Report comment

            • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

              On the bottom of the page it’s said about the author:
              “Age does not always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone.”

              Fitting, I guess.


              Report comment

              • batista

                A banana strategy to counter and block eventual cesium exposure will backfire. One might go the road of SJ the corp guru or our fellow contributor. Damn it. I am afraid veganism can’t always be the right solution to avoid any exposure to radiation – sometimes I think in normal conditions meat might be better. But now though far away from Japan I am afraid from cesium in the meat and everywhere else plus strontium in dairy and milk. We are between a rock and a hard place. Darn it!
                No good air, water and air in normal conditions. Even worse when Fuku hits the fan.


                Report comment

                • batista

                  Nuke shills are right that food is normally radioactive. And it is likely the more so when the food is more nutritious. But they are effing with you when they try to use this as an excuse for the ongoing madness and as a sick reassurance for the public. Eff em they screwed our air, our water and our food. Dirty *&%^$#.


                  Report comment

                • Anthony Anthony

                  Yeah isn’t it WAY beyond banana rumbles at this point?! I couldn’t have been the only one who heard on recent vids here how if a kid falls into a contaminated sandbox their eyes are buggered the next day, swollen and sometimes purpled. Banana debates do nothing to address more relevant issues like a poisonous sandbox imo.


                  Report comment

                • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

                  @batista

                  Air = bad
                  Soil = bad
                  Water = Even worse
                  Food = Genetically Modified, radioactive
                  MSM News = Useless
                  Government = Really, really bad and daily getting worse.

                  We are overdue for some good improvements.


                  Report comment

            • batista

              http://desu-hq.org/2011/04/09/banana-radioactive-chart/
              Eating one banana = 0.1 microSv
              4 bananas = Natural radiation in the human body
              10 bananas = Using CRT monitor for a year
              35 bananas = Extra close from one day in average town near the Fukushima plant
              50 bananas = Dental X-ray
              100 bananas = Background dose received by an average person on an average day
              400 bananas = Flight from New York to LA
              700 bananas = Living in a stone, brick or concrete building for a year
              1,000 bananas = Chest X-ray
              2,500 bananas = Release limit for a nuclear power plant for a year
              4,000 bananas = Yearly dose per person from food per year
              10,000 bananas = EPA yearly limit on radiation exposure to a member of the public
              15,000 bananas = Spinal X-ray
              25,000 bananas = Natural background radiation we’re all exposed to per year
              30,000 bananas = Mammogram
              36,000 bananas = One day close at two sites 50km NW of Fukushima
              60,000 bananas = Dose from spending one hour on the grounds at Chernobyl in 2010
              100,000 bananas = Average CT scan
              360,000 bananas = Smoking 1.5 packs a day for a year
              500,000 bananas = Maximum yearly dose permitted for US radiation workers
              1,000,000 bananas = Annual dose at which increased lifetime risk of cancer is evident
              2,500,000 bananas = Dose limit for US radiation workers in life-saving operations
              4,000,000 bananas = Maximum radiation levels detected at Fukushima per hour
              5,000,000 bananas = Slight effect, decrease in blood cell counts – return to normal in a few days
              10,000,000 bananas = (1 in 125) Temporary radiation sickness.Nausea, low blood cell count. Not Fatal. Per hour in surface water in tunnels outside Fukushima No2. reactor
              20,000,000 bananas = Severe radiation poisoning, nausea & vomiting, but recovery likely
              40,000,000 bananas = Extremely severe dose – survival possible with prompt treatment
              50,000,000 bananas = Extremely severe radiation dose – high chance of fatality
              60,000,000 bananas = Usually fatal dose
              100,000,000…


              Report comment

      • StillJill StillJill

        Yes,…just place any old banana near any old hot spot,….and wholla-hot banana!


        Report comment

        • VanneV anne

          SK, She is seriously ill with pancreatic cancer and living where there is a huge amount of fallout from Fukushima. Why don’t you pretend that you are not a sociopath or a psychopath.


          Report comment

          • Sir keekotin

            Yeah, the part of serious illness was evident, even though I would have guessed it to be more of a mental nature. Also, why should she worry about the fallout, the worst that could happen is to get the cancer ..oh wait. No harm done there!

            And you’re right, I actually don’t pretend.

            http://aasi.ebm.fi/906/bepolite.jpg


            Report comment

            • VanneV anne

              Attacking victims of radiation poisoning is NOT acceptable in a civilized world. You are permanently destroying your credibility as a human being. YOU are the one with a severe mental disease. But then you are a victim of severe radiation poisoning yourself which kills off the brain cells. If this all we have to look forward to in the coming days no wonder God is allowing the world to be burned up totally by the fires that man himself is and has discovered and perfected.

              Some, by preserving and exercising their compassion and humanity and faith will be transported by God to a new heaven and a new earth where all will want to obey and find the ultimate joy in purity.

              Philippians 4:8
              Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
              Matthew 21:22
              If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
              • Matthew 25:40
              “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
              • Matthew 25:45
              “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me


              Report comment

              • WorseThanChernobyl

                Sociopath.


                Report comment

              • VanneV anne

                SK, I wish you could understand that this isn’t just about intellectual arguments. It is about kindness and compassion, and about life and death. It is about sadness and grief. When you reach an awareness of your own grief, you will wish that you had had compassion for others who are grieving. Cancer is a disease of grief. Yes, it is caused by environmental atrocities. But grief also harms the immune system.

                I wish you had something to be joyful about, then you would have a way to focus your grief. You wouldn’t feel the need to attack people who are vulnerable. Why is it that when I put three of my dogs together my smallest and most vulnerable dog is the one attacked? As humans with reason we don’t need to play out this animal behavior.

                You know nothing about Christianity. Jesus as our example said, Forgive them father for they know not what they do. There is only learning to forgive so that our Father will forgive us. The only Christian prayer is that people will repent, turn to God and accept His forgiveness and His sovereignty.

                You need to read the Bible for yourself. It expresses the Truth much better than I can. I need to leave you to the Bible. Only Jesus can cast out demons.


                Report comment

                • nuckelchen nuckelchen

                  @sir:fuck you too, your german fails.
                  uberschaisse=ÜBERSCHEISSE/UEBERSCHEISSE???
                  we don’t have ÜBERSCHEISSE/UEBERSCHEISSE here.
                  BUT YOU ARE 110% OBERSCHEISSE.

                  and you are right about the software, its time to activate the “uberschaisse”-filter.
                  your ip is saved in our back-up right now, so you can stop with posting .


                  Report comment

              • Bobby1

                Will someone please ban this troll?


                Report comment

          • LetThemEatYellowCake LetThemEatYellowCake

            psychopath… it’s not my fault he’s a douche


            Report comment

        • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

          yes Jill..put the banana next to..or in the bottle and we can take a picture to explain over the top reading from counter :) brilliant… you know we will see it soon… this crap is like a bad soap opera..with the most unbelievable krap passing as reality…


          Report comment

          • StillJill StillJill

            As somewhat of a writer myself,….mostly mainstream novels loosely based on my experiences,….I’d pass by these ideas,…as being too crazy for ANYONE to believe!


            Report comment

    • VanneV anne

      Natural Radiation: Why Your Bananas Are Radioactive And You Shouldn’t Care
      http://www.raw-food-health.net/Natural-Radiation.html


      Report comment

  • WindorSolarPlease

    I believe the higher ups in every Country with the equipment they have to check, all knew from day one what was happening.

    Since we knew this disaster wasn’t good, you better believe they knew also.
    I know they are a lot smarter than I am.

    Maybe at the University’s with the type of equipment they use and the things they were given to test with, and the area’s where they were testing, their results could be accurate.

    I might be old, but I still have some brain cells left. I know there is always a possibility of fudging numbers, or making something look better than it really is..

    Mr. Marco Kaltofen, could be using other things to test, in different area’s, and with better equipment. Which could produce more of an accurate higher readings.
    I don’t doubt his findings.

    I am thankful for the many people in this field who are giving us information of their findings. Thank You


    Report comment

  • desert_lady desert_lady

    @jdstone1 …oooh! Thank you for that link. Many hrs. of stuff in there.

    Eek, the EPA’s beta gross count rate for Yuma AZ is as high as I’ve ever seen it!! with other spikes since Aug:
    http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/net2/Yuma-AZ-Real-Time-US-Radiation-Monitoring-Graph.aspx
    Oct 16 it’s at 950 cpm. Also Tucson’s beta count is up for all of Oct. We are finally getting the jetstream down here…

    Please let’s remember Fuku is a VERY NEEDED WAKE UP CALL. Millions now know the danger of nuclear power. Millions awakened to the stranglehold govts and corporations have over their lives bcuz of the Japanese govt and TEPCO’s lies. Millions of everyday people now have facts in their hands proving these elites don’t give a shit about them or the earth. It will cause many, who had never once considered these things before, to change their entire life’s direction. This is profound. It could not have happened in any other way bcuz people around the world are just like us–they don’t change until a crisis hits.

    Let us open our hearts and imagine everyone who is connecting the dots for the first time.. remember how shocked, how off-balance you felt? And look where you are now… you may be horrified still, but those who’ve been here for any length of time, you are stronger. You’re much more real. You’re taking actions that are affecting thousands of people daily just by commenting. You’re taking action in your personal lives. You’re more concerned with the things that really matter, than you were a few short months ago. NOTHING CAN TAKE THAT FROM US. It is very powerful and it will change the WORLD.


    Report comment

    • stock@hawaii.rr.com

      Only millions will die from Fuku, maybe 5 to 10 million. Not trying to be a jerk, but saying that if we don’t wrestle this so called Pro-Nuke Pimp industry into nothingness, then we will all end up with nothingness and a rocky road on the way there. 7000 million to die, or use this as a wakeup call?


      Report comment

    • StillJill StillJill

      Thank you sincerely Desert Lady!

      I sure needed to hear every word of that-::-)

      (Copy this one for sure!)


      Report comment

  • lam335 lam335

    Any parents out there: communicate this information among your social network, to other people with young children (and to people with grandchildren, for that matter). Tell them there is evidence that nasty stuff like americium was floating across the US last spring, and that it was documented as having reached as far as Boston. Explain to them what an alpha emitter is, how long it stays in the body and where, and what kinds of long-term health impacts it can have.

    People have to be made to see this. That is the only way change will happen so that it might never happen again.


    Report comment

  • WindorSolarPlease

    Has anyone with better equipment, tested the strange snowfall in the US states that we have had?


    Report comment

  • Human0815

    All of you need to do Tests and Check Up
    because only you are/ should be able to to a proper Reading, buy the Control Stuff together with some Friend and check everywhere,
    only this get a Significance, don’t trust Measurements done 1.000 ts of Miles from your Home, they are irrelevant for you!

    Deny Ignorance, become Wild and Beautiful!
    We are rock’n F’Shima


    Report comment

  • Whoopie Whoopie

    WTH?? On the Road to Fukushima 2? – By Janika Collatz http://t.co/PsnydiYU
    about 10 minutes ago


    Report comment

    • Whoopie Whoopie

      UK full Nuclear Steam Ahead. :(


      Report comment

      • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

        Morning Whoopie, this is so awful. We stopped RWE and E.ON here in Germany, and the bastards just laugh at our faces and sell their crap elsewhere.
        I was so happy yesterday to read about Belgium’s decision, and today I think it will just never stop. Never.
        We need arclight to stir up the angry lemmings over there.
        Come on, arc.
        Do it for us.


        Report comment

    • Sir keekotin

      The article ends with a question;

      “Should we continue to use it even after the accidents that have happened or do you support the development and research on alternative sources of energy?”

      How are these options mutually exclusive? That’s what the writer seems to think. Wouldn’t the best option be continue to use it for now while developing better and safer options to get energy we need?

      The future of the world and humankind is actually dependent on our skill to turn matter into energy (or viceversa).


      Report comment

      • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

        SK, in case you have not noticed yet, the alternative methods are already existing and are evolving faster than anyone predicted 10 years ago. They need to be pushed forward and receive subsidies (like nuclear does until the present day) to take over.
        German nuke companies had full page adverts in the papers here saying “renewables? nice idea, but we’ll never get over 4% with them.”
        Currently, Germany has 21% and rising.
        I advise you to do some basic research on the matter.


        Report comment

        • Whoopie Whoopie

          Can’t add much but these BB. Dont kill The Messenger:
          WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
          End the use of nuclear energy in the United States.
          http://wh.gov/4HA

          WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
          End taxpayer subsidies for new nuclear reactors
          http://tinyurl.com/3rxkknu

          WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
          Provide dollar for dollar investment into Green Energy R&D just like we spend on Nuclear Energy! Solar’s time is NOW!
          http://tinyurl.com/3nugx5z

          Taxpayers should NOT take on the risk of building new nuclear plants
          https://secure3.convio.net/gpeace/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=801&s_src=sidebar


          Report comment

          • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

            @Whoopie, regarding the first one (the one Erin was promoting a lot here) it says:

            “The petition you are trying to access has expired, because it failed to meet the signature threshold.”

            It is SO SAD that in a country of x million people not even 5000 can decide to sign a damn petition.

            I’m really pissed today. Need to go out & see the sun.


            Report comment

            • Whoopie Whoopie

              OH NO!! Damn! I didn’t know that. i’ll alert Erin or maybe she knows. TY (no sun here today)


              Report comment

              • Erin

                Thanks so much guys! You’re awesome! :-)

                Unfortunately, the petitions to end nuclear energy and to end taxpayer subsidies both ended without getting enough sigs.

                Now I guess we’ll just need to work harder to raise awareness and better educate the public so the next opportunity won’t slip by. ;-)


                Report comment

        • Sir keekotin

          Oh I’ve done it, certainly.

          But as it stands, neither wind OR solar power is good enough, as it is. Certainly advances have been made with solar power. You see, at our summer cabin we have this solar power station, but it really sucks. Granted, its a bit old and you’ll get more juice out of the newer ones, but it’s not quite there yet. Also, when it doesn’t shine, you’re pretty much out of luck. One can’t assume that if it doesn’t shine, it’s windy, but no.

          So the combination of wind & solar powering your household is up to the weather. If it doesn’t work on a small scale, I have to be a bit sceptical. Ofcourse, my guess is that the optimum (for now) would be a combined energy production on every way, wind, solar, even nuclear. If everything else fails for power (it’s not shining or windy) nuclear is there for last resolt fallback, until we get our fusion going.

          Nevertheless, is obvious that our power needs are going up, so we have to evolve with our energy harvesting methods. One curious new technology is the wave harvesting from the oceans and bigger lakes etc (google it if you haven’t heard, basically you just slap these structures at the seafloor, which are being wiggled by waves which is then again converted to energy).

          As I visited Amsterdam last time (this summer), the windmills were certainly a smoothing sight. Loved them, but I suspect they need them very many more to harvest the energy to compensate for nuclear power.


          Report comment

          • Whoopie Whoopie

            I love seeing them too. So why couldn’t we FUND more Solar and Wind? The NRC is FUNDED BY US. Like Mary says in her article:
            “How to spend $6 billion, create 600 jobs, and prop up the most unproductive sector of the military industrial complex for another generation”
            EXPLAIN that to me.


            Report comment

              • batista

                I think the one’s who rule the world will want us the populace to ask them to shut nuclear and make us go back in the dark ages living as serfs with them having the position of aristocracy and access to tech while us working at decontamination sites inand in the fields dying out of diseases pollution hunger and heavy labour. Great future.
                I hate nukes but they do produce electricity. And this is what made it possible for the standard of living that the western world offers.


                Report comment

                • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                  batista, are you willing to sacrifice the future of this planet for your standard of living?
                  I’m not.


                  Report comment

                  • batista

                    Rest assured I ain’t ready but I just try to present my guess of one of the possible scenarios. I am actually very afraid of what is coming out from any effing npp. I hate my insufficient health which I love to blame on Chernobyl and the use of Du more than on any other pollution.
                    The only funny use of Nuclear power that recently appealed to me was the use of a tritium powered mini water reactor for cars which could be driven for a million years.
                    I would love the standard of living to be rather sacrificed in order for our planet to survive – the conquering of space is just a child’s dream and is impossible.


                    Report comment

              • batista

                Renewables suck too. The windmills screws the poor birdies and solar effs the forests I guess.
                But they can give some helping hand from time to time.


                Report comment

            • Sir keekotin

              Well you said it yourself;

              “The NRC is FUNDED BY US”

              But that “us” doesn’t include me, since I’m not living in north america. So I’ll – as responsible, and adult manner as always – just leave that to your problem. It’s your shitty regulatory organization, you deal with it! I won’t have anything to do with it.

              http://aasi.ebm.fi/8020/i+feel+empty+inside.jpg


              Report comment

              • Whoopie Whoopie

                Oh I agree totally SK. Left feeling empty.


                Report comment

              • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                SK, this is exactly what I meant above with “national insults”. It’s not US and THEM, it’s not YOURS or MINE.
                We need to work together.
                Get it?


                Report comment

                • Sir keekotin

                  Yeah, but guess what happens at your post-911 all-hyped-up-terrorists-are-the-new-communists international airport in where-ever america while I’d be doing the check-in with the customs/homeland security or whoever. I could SO imagine that conversation;

                  “what’s your reason for entering the holy united states?” “well you see, I’m here to protest against your NCR, you know, nuclear.. ” and that would be prolly as far I would got before finding my fat ass beaten up at the guantamo bay or whatever.

                  So I say again, with USA’s retarded politics and security shows with air traveling doesn’t exactly make me want to come by, specially if they know I’d be causing problems with your goverment. Hell, isn’t that what the terrorists are supposed to do? Rebel against government and the people? ..Is this your evil plan to get me off from enews and into some american torture chamber :D well I see right through your cunning plans!


                  Report comment

                  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                    You know what? I’m not a citizen of the USA myself (as I thought you’d have guessed by now).
                    My point was that it’s easy to point at others before cleaning the own yard. I don’t know about your government’s nuke policy, but probably not everything is in perfect order…I guess.
                    I suggest we leave it at that.


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                    • Sir keekotin

                      But not all the yards are equally in size, shape or nuclear plant density, so it would be absurd to set them all at the same line while evaluating. The yard I’m living in, is really small and relatively well maintained, while in pretty much same position as Japan (no oil or gas etc).


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                    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                      Then you’re lucky. That leaves you with even more energy to lend others a helping hand in their struggles, as it’s probably not your merit alone that you live in a well-maintained yard.

                      but pure luck.


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          • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

            SK, the problem with “relying on nuclear as the last resort if wind / solar fails” is the following:
            it’s impossible to just “switch on” a nuke plant. It needs ca. 24 hrs to reboot, if you will. So nukes are just not able to meet a suuden demand of power. On top, you’ll have to keep them on standby all the time, which would mean skyrockting prices – if nukes weren’t massively funded like they are today. Most people who claim nuclear is cheap didn’t fully understand that they don’t pay via their energy bill but via their taxes.

            You also talk about the “growing demand” of power. Why is that? Who forces us to use more and more electricity?

            I think we should
            - use less energy (drastically)
            - decentralize energy production
            - promote community-owned energy supply (production and grids)

            In 2008, nukes produced ca. 20% of the electricity demand in the US. That means: let’s save 20% of energy (which is easy), and shut the nukes DOWN.

            Sounds good, doesn’t it?


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            • Sir keekotin

              If you take a look at our energy needs throughout the century, it certainly hasn’t dropped. I just don’t think that saving energy up to 20% is realism. Did you just read the news, there are now 7 billion of us? While there are more people, there will be more needs. To satisfy the needs we need power (farming,housing, etc you know). I just don’t see a scenario without a world war and significant drop in the amount of people on this globe to get down 20% from where we are now.

              Everything needs more power. Research, industry, living standards, everything. And no, I’m not willing to give up my living standards, fuck that, if I don’t have my living standards, life isn’t worth of living. Right out of the question. I should give away something for some goddamn flowerhipster saving the world.. well fuck the world if it wants to fuck with my standards.

              You’ll have to get my living standards out of my cold dead hands if you want it.


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              • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                “.. well fuck the world if it wants to fuck with my standards.
                You’ll have to get my living standards out of my cold dead hands if you want it.”

                Enough said.
                End of discussion.


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                • midwestern midwestern

                  B&B, one more thing…his cold dead, very knightly, irradiated hands…kind of like that Monty Python knight in the forest, getting his limbs wacked off one by one, yet still calling out for more..in this case “living standards”. Maybe we should call them “dying standards” instead.


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                • StillJill StillJill

                  Give a fool enough rope,…….you don’t have to lift a finger.

                  My recently passed Father used to say, “Never argue with a fool, ’cause anyone looking on,…won’t be able to tell you two apart!”


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    A HP thread DATED yesterday but did not KNOW about this til this morning. PISSED OFF

    A Giant New Plutonium Complex at Los Alamos …or, “How to spend $6 billion, create 600 jobs, and prop up the most unproductive sector of the military industrial complex for another generation.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marycharlotte-domandi/los-alamos-nuclear_b_1034330.html


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Radioactiv­e tellurium, silver detected near…
    November 01, 2011
    http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ2011110116244


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    • Bobby1

      We hear a lot about cesium, but there has been a very large amount of radioactive tellurium released also. Even nonradioactive tellurium is poisonous.

      Some of the symptoms of tellurium poisoning are garlic breath and body odor. It might be something more significant than needing to brush your teeth and take a shower.


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  • StillJill StillJill

    Whoopie’s whoopin’ arse today boys and girls! :-)


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    And of course, for those who haven’t watched this:
    http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/knocking-on-the-devils-door-1-8.html
    The NRC: Blatant, bald-faced­­, unabashed, shameless, impudent, audacious, brazen hypocrisy.


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  • No one had the right to line these executioner’s on the public and then basically say prove the one that your bullet of death was in !

    Gifts from our lovely Corporations & Government’s !


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  • StillJill StillJill

    How can TPTB be expecting “increased demand”, now?

    There is simply no way,…to my mind,…that we will use more energy in 2012, than 2011,..PERIOD!

    They know this too!

    Their cry that ‘we need more’,…energy? Who here is buying that truckload? They NEED more NUKE money,…HELLO????


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  • StillJill StillJill

    God shall remind you of these very words,…in front of all your peers. Cheers! God bless your soul. :-)


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  • StillJill StillJill

    Thanks a ton Anne!

    Now,…I shall refer to my earlier WISDOM, and not argue with a fool!


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    • I believe you dad heeded Mark Twain ? in: When you see two people heatedly arguing in the street, it’s hard to tell who the fool is !

      Beware, people who witness this soon turn away and loose interest in what the argument was about and look no more to what was the problem !

      An ignorant person is one who doesn’t know what you have found out.


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      • StillJill StillJill

        I’m sure that’s it. My Father said that his Father had the version I mentioned, on a sign in his workshop. My Father’s Father died before I was even born,…but hearing that THAT was one of his ‘logo’s, if you will,…makes me proud of my heritage,….and perhaps the apple hasn’t fallen too far! :-)

        Thanks Doc,….I’d bet my Father would have LOVED Mr. Twain,…and vise-versa!


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  • thelili

    You know, perhaps it’s time to stop writing to the “authorities”.

    Perhaps, it’s time to make a few phone calls…

    http://www.telephonecallrecorder.com/

    The first one that gets something juicy on tape from a reporter,highly esteemed scientist, civic leader, or “radiation specialist” wins :)

    I will FLY the recording to Hawaii and hand it to Mike Rivero personally.

    Shaktas/Lili


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  • StillJill StillJill

    “Get away from Me you workers of lawlessness,…I NEVER knew you!”


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  • thelili

    Anne, ignore the troll. He’s in denial. He thinks that he magically will be disassociated from all of the global water tables and air currents. Oh and the other infected people that will travel to wherever it is that he lives to escape Japan. I don’t know where he’s from-but ALL of the governments are going to buy Japans irradiated items and import them once they start going at rock bottom prices.

    China is already fully immersed in selling tainted Japanese products to global dealers.

    Trust me on this. Apparently the troll lives in Middle Earth yet forgets that earthquakes and volcanoes occur there too :)


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  • Erin

    A suggestion …

    While some folks might not appreciate SK’s opinion, perhaps some even find it wildly insensitive or even abhorrent, I think it’s important to accept that there are a whole lot of people in this Me First world with similar opinions, and they aren’t going away. Instead of attacking these pathetic excuses for human beings directly, why not use them to fine tune our arguments?

    Seriously, a forum like this is a good place to practice debate skills, and having “The Other Side” playing along can be very constructive! ;-)

    Glass half full … glass half full … :-)


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  • NoNukes NoNukes

    It looks like they are scared of Marco Kaltofen! This thread shows evidence of an extra payday.


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  • StillJill StillJill

    What a charming homo sapien you are. I’ll bet your Mama is Oh so very PROUD of you!


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  • batista

    Effing Fuku tainted food, water and air.
    SK can get himself a heart attack, thanks to it.
    Cancer is nasty, but you shall be angry at radiation and radiation dirt – they create idiots and cretins…


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  • nuckelchen nuckelchen

    …and gone…

    dear friends,what a horrorful example of the consequences from the radiation for the humen brain.
    he must be one of the 2. generation of the fall-out infected ones from the atom test in the early sixties.
    that will be go much worse with every new generation that such probands produce…

    hm,
    he could be also the third generation…


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  • batista

    Directed at Sir Does not know where he is nor where he is heading to.


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