US evacuation out at least 150-200 miles, past Tokyo? Concerned NRC Staff: “Why are we being so rigid in terms of doing the right thing?” — Radiation exposure “just one of many considerations”

Published: March 6th, 2012 at 8:43 pm ET


Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi ET Audio File
Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Emphasis Added

MALE PARTICIPANT: Are we (inaudible) to give recommendations to the Ambassador. Because we got into this at the beginning, like (inaudible) advising the Ambassador.


MALE PARTICIPANT: So, (inaudible) only go out to 50 miles.

FEMALE PARTICIPANT: But the request we had yesterday at 6:54 a.m., which we’re still waiting on, has to go out past Tokyo, go out at least 150-200 miles.


FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we should be able to get that information —

MALE PARTICIPANT: At least the first estimate. […]

MALE PARTICIPANT: I have Tom Roberts here with me, and I guess we’re hearing that Admiral Donald wanted to talk to the Chairman to get some clarification.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. And so, are you plugged into that, to advise on whether it makes sense radiologically to —

MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. No, I think it’s more than radiological issues


MALE PARTICIPANT: — that the Ambassador has under consideration right now. You know, our position is that it is

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. This is —


MALE PARTICIPANT: This is not some we’ve calculated or we’ve recommended. We’re responding to the Ambassador’s request at this point.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Let me ask the question, isn’t there an ALARA consideration here at some level? We calculate that if, in fact, the asumptions [sic] made relative to your 50-mile PEG calculation come to pass, that you would get like 1 to rem total effective dose equivalent out to 150 to miles. And wouldn’t it make sense, if we’re talking now voluntary departure, wouldn’t it make sense to recommend voluntary departure in the name of avoiding that level of population dose?

MALE PARTICIPANT: Do you want my personal opinion?



MALE PARTICIPANT: That’s my own personal view. And radiation is just one factor.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. So, but what we are charged with advising on radiation or you are charged with advising —

MALE PARTICIPANT: And that’s in our protective action to up to 50 miles.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, but why are we being so rigid in terms of doing the right thing? The right thing is an ALARA thing here, in addition to strict interpretation of PEG.

MALE PARTICIPANT: If you went to a (inaudible, possible “law”) —


MALE PARTICIPANT: — I suppose, I suppose you could get there.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, so the question is, how much should the law play into


MALE PARTICIPANT: And the scope of that, as you understood it from him, was —

MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Now, if we were asked to advise strictly on radiological grounds, you would or would not take into consideration ALARA?

MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, I would, but I keep coming back to I think that, if you’re out beyond the 50-mile zone, there are other factors

MALE PARTICIPANT: That take in —

MALE PARTICIPANT: — that bear on this decision..


VONNA ORDAZ: And other countries have recognized that as well in releases.

MALE PARTICIPANT: In the press releases — thanks. Vonna Ordaz is here with me, and she is saying in the press releases other countries are acknowledging that the radioactive dose is just one of many considerations.

VONNA ORDAZ: Structural (inaudible) —


VONNA ORDAZ: — transportation, communications, and other —



Published: March 6th, 2012 at 8:43 pm ET


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61 comments to US evacuation out at least 150-200 miles, past Tokyo? Concerned NRC Staff: “Why are we being so rigid in terms of doing the right thing?” — Radiation exposure “just one of many considerations”

  • Sickputer

    Sure…other considerations…transportation, the economy, communications, government costs, people dying, the stock market, birth defects, local government budgets, the global economy, the tourism trade, the export trade, manufacturing, US troops north of Tokyo and in Okinawa, the 2012 elections, blah…blah, blah…blah!

    Bottom line…people are just faceless expendables and government jobs are more important than honor and integrity. Not a decent soul among them.

    • labmonkeywithagun labmonkeywithagun

      MAJOR SOLAR FLARE: Earth-orbiting satellites have just detected an X5-class solar flare from big sunspot AR1429. The blast peaked on March 7th at 00:28 UT. Radiation storms and radio blackouts are possible.
      Sorry OT but need to get it out.

      • labmonkeywithagun,
        Future reference, best put these off topic comments in the correct pocket, so you won't get sent to the corner for 30 days !
        FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) for Feb. 26, 2012 – Present

    • aigeezer aigeezer

      From the transcript, it seemed like one of the MALE PARTICIPANT types was trying half-heartedly to do the right thing. Apparently Vonna Ordaz got it pushed back in the other direction.

      I can't find a bio for MALE PARTICIPANT online. 😉

      But here's Vonna Ordaz:

      Apparently they made their life/death recommendations after reading the press releases from other countries.

  • patb2009

    what they are saying is

    1) Under US Law/Regualtions, they are supposed to evacuate and regulate to As Low As Reasonably Allowable (ALARA) exposure.

    Now instead they are saying that a 150 Mile evac line would require Evacuating/Advising US Citizens to leave Tokyo, and that would have political/diplomatic/economic effects, so they ignored the law and
    stuck to 50 Miles of evacuation guidelines.

    Apparently the other countries went along.

    • lam335 lam335

      Well said.

      "Other factors" = they were searching for a way to rationalize NOT recommending what they knew they SHOULD recommend.

      … must look out for the industry at all costs (human costs notwithstanding).

      Heads should roll for this (plus the suppression of the thyroid dose estimate for California children).

      There must be a way to identify these individuals and hold them accountable.

      • dharmasyd dharmasyd

        ALARA obviously leaves lots of Hedge Room! "Well, it seemed reasoanable allowance to us."

        • lam335 lam335

          Benjamin Franklin:

          "So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

  • cnsrndctzn cnsrndctzn

    I think TEPCO's stock price was the main consideration, and of course the "feelings" of the US nuclear lobby, after all they are a sensitive bunch.

  • Whoopie Whoopie

    #Fukushima: Japan Tsunami Anniversary? Sad Survivor Story / What about the RADIATION FALLOUT? Night all. 🙁

  • PoorDaddy PoorDaddy

    Absolute proof of a complete global gov. cover-up. Not just Japan, or Canada, or US or even Norway (They shut down readings too…just a little later than others).
    Do we all understand just how powerful global banks/military ind. complex/multi national corporations really are?
    World Economy is KING! The rest of us …..of no consequence.

  • March 6th pm
    Earth-orbiting satellites have just detected an X5-class solar flare from big sunspot AR1429. The blast peaked on March 7th at 00:28 UT. Radiation storms and radio blackouts are possible
    March 6th am

    STRONG SOLAR ACTIVITY: Solar activity is now high. Big sunspot AR1429, which emerged on March 2nd, is crackling with strong flares. The strongest so far, an X1-class eruption, occured just ths morning, March 5th at 0413 UT. NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory recorded the extreme ultraviolet flash:

    The explosion also hurled a bright coronal mass ejection (CME) into space: SOHO movie. The expanding cloud will probably deliver a glancing blow to Earth's magnetic field on March 6th or 7th. (Stay tuned for updates on this possibility as more data arrive.) High-latitude sky watchers should be alert for auroras in the nights ahead. Auroras alerts: text, phone.

    When the CME from today's X-flare arrives, a geomagnetic storm might already be in progress. An earlier CME is en route and nearing our planet. According to analysts at the Goddard Space Weather Lab, the cloud, which was produced by an M2-class eruption from sunspot AR1429 on March 4th, could deliver a glancing blow to Earth's magnetic field on March 6th at 04:30 UT (+/- 7 hr). See the CME's animated forecast track.

    As promised…

    There appears to be a large scale earthquake in japan developing. Likely a 6.0+
    Date March 8th-13th 2012. (eq will probably register within 24-48 hours of the x class cme arrival.
    Stay tuned to for updates. Also there should be another 4.0-5.0 preceding the larger earthquake in respects to the more recent m-2 class cme; This eq is expected to influence the earths magnetosphere nearly 24hours before the latter solar storm. Which could lead the following flare into a +7.0 magnitude / scale eq.

    • Dear admin.

      There will be a massive earthquake in japan following these coronal mass ejections. Like me or not. Please leave this post up. Again.

      This is a post aimed at warning japanese users that between march 7 – 10th there will be a large earthquake.

      If there is an earthquake I demand that you discontinue removing my posts.
      If there is 'Not' an earthquake I will agree to discontinue posting them.

      That is a pretty fair trade if you asked me.

      The whole reason you started this sight was to provide adequate news to the fukushima nuclear crisis.

      This is a helpful post that has no topic. It is a warning to japanese residents which need to take shelter in advance…

      Please put their needs before your own and let this post stay on this forum wall. Most users do not use the discussion threads making it difficult to get the news to them in a timely manner.

      In a very real way, you will see just how important this news break is from me;
      within only one week.

      and one of us will owe the other an apology.

      • Tacomagroove,
        Why not post it in the correct forum and it will not get erased ???

        Do it now so the Japanese people can read it !!!!

        • It is on the webcam discussion but the thread gets replaced daily by a new page.

          I feel this is going to be as big as an event as the original 9.0 eq in japan. Hence my repeated warnings all month & now, week.

          Most users attempt to stay intune with enenews only reading the headlining articles. SO Naturally I would seek these articles out to gain the most amount of exposure.
          It is the most effective way to broadcast the information on this site that I have found to date.

          • labmonkeywithagun labmonkeywithagun

            Most exposure on something I feel needed to get out to the most people as soon as possible. But whatever dude.
            Not sure if it will cause quakes, but find it plausible and the USA has some strange patterns right now, bunch of smalls along the Mississippi River basin, Madrid fault????

            • WE all know that we are toast if one of these hit us and so dose NASSA and the Gov. I have not dug a hole to hide in as many, Hope that it is night when it overtakes the earth ! We will have a day or two to say our goodbyes ! The friends, brother in law in air force NASSA, months back said nevermind the radiation from Fuka, this is much bigger !

          • CB CB

            I realize I have flooded the general, and off topic discussion threads a few times. I have changed that. I limit my posts. Often not posting crap. lol. Flooding creates a disruption in communications between posting on the NEW headlines here. People here have the ability to find other sources of info also as easily as I. As much as I try to communicate with what might be important to some, I realize it is disrespectful to ENE. I've cut way back. and hide out on the non related issues when something important comes up. Like a X5 CME. Yes it is important, solar forecasting. A historical record of sorts, ENE stated the frequency as to the length of a thought out posting has decreased by 2 sense ENE's inception. I would hope of course this be taken with gravity, as a large number of posts are nonconstructive. Short shots of anger, one liners, and ridicule, replaced the will tempered fact finding, solution seeking, know all contributors. Separating or team here, as we all have brought so much to the table. I reevaluate my voice here. Maybe we all should.

          • Tacomagroove,
            Post it to the new page that comes up in the OFF TOPIC FORUM, Just ad a number to the first of post so the bot will think it is a completely different topic !
            This way you can post this week and if nothing happens on your prediction you can stop posting !

            Any suggestion's as to what the Japanese we should do about this ?

          • Tacomagroove,
            Put in OFF TOPIC FORUM !!!
            FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) for Feb. 26, 2012 – Present

            • CB CB

              Have high ground readily available QUICKLY! Know and practice an evacuation route. Keep food, medicine and first aid pack in source of transportation. Have food and water supplies ready to grab and go for at least a 3 day period. Water purification tables. Lighters to build fires at night and to boil and purify water. A pan. A weapon, knife and light tackle to dig into trees. A solar powered radio, and ready to go GTFO bag. Already prepared, lets go, no time to grab important pictures, papers already to go case. Watertight of course/

            • americancommntr

              Ya vohl herr commandante!!

              • labmonkeywithagun labmonkeywithagun

                The king of the thread? Reminds me of AtomsforPeace on HuffPo, a little too much. But I don't post here much anyway.

      • psylotron

        Interesting.Yesterdey i lost my SKY TV signal in he morning and there was about 30 channels offline with a messagea about troubles with the satellites because the sun activity.

      • ruth

        Thanks for this heads up. The Aurora Forecast for this CME is splendidly graphed for the world here

        If this scientific forecast is close then looks like most significant magnetic impact is Canada and northern US, not Asia, nor Japan. Looks bad for the US.

    • Tacomagroove,
      ask some other sites that we get news from to publish or you can put in comments on those sites !

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Probably only a matter of time until it's known who ordered the cover ups.

  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    ~In the United States, the NRC limits occupational radiation exposure to adults working with radioactive material to 5 rem per year.~

    CRCPD Handbook for Responding to a Radiological Dispersal …
    The Conference of Radiation Control Program Directors, Inc. (CRCPD) is an organization made …… clean cloth or gauze to reduce contact with loose dust and debris. … saturate (“peg”) and indicate low or no readings in a very high radiation … the area; it simply means the person needs to be aware of radiation levels in the…

    • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

      ALARA stands for As Low As Reasonably Achievable.

      The ALARA concept is an integral part of all activities that involve the use of radiation or radioactive materials. This includes the design, construction and operations of existing and future facilities here at TJNAF. This concept includes reducing both internal and external exposure to ionizing radiation.

      A CLOSER LOOK – What is "reasonable" ?

      The ALARA concept itself grows out of our assumption that any radiation exposure carries with it some risk. Since work that entails radiation exposure is sometimes part of some beneficial endeavor, the ALARA effort is related to balancing the assumed risks of radiation exposure against the benefit of performing the work. So "reasonable" in this context means that the risk from receiving the exposure is "worth" the net benefit of the activity. An extension of this philosophy would be the statement that "There should not be any occupational exposure of workers to ionizing radiation without the expectation of an overall benefit from the activity causing the exposure."

      In other words, ALARA means preventing unnecessary exposure as well as overexposure.

  • As Low As Reasonably Achievable"ALARP stands for "as low as reasonably practicable", For a risk to be ALARP it must be possible to demonstrate that the cost involved in reducing the risk further would be grossly disproportionate to the benefit gained. The ALARP principle arises from the fact that infinite time, effort and money could be spent on the attempt of reducing a risk to zero. The term ALARP arises from UK legislation, particularly the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974,The term ALARA, or "as low as reasonably achievable" is used interchangeably in the United States of America, almost exclusively in the field of Radiation Protection. from

    This is just a polite way of saying we all are expendable

    God Bless All

  • In the context of Japan ALARA means that the rise in cancer rates is worth the savings garnered by avoiding evacuation. Ditto West Coast.

  • Anthony Anthony


    Fukushima disaster dims US nuclear power industry growth
    A year after Japan's crisis, regulations & costs are cooling the US nuclear industry.
    Should the US rely more on nuclear power?
    54 %
    64,958 votes
    34 %
    41,023 votes
    12 %
    I'm not sure
    14,786 votes

    • Anthony Anthony

      ****And it turns out nuclear plants have a longer life span than many originally assumed. Plant licenses originally were granted for 40 years, based on the standard accounting payback schedule used for conventional power plants when the first commercial reactors were built in the late 1950s. Now as those original 40-year licenses expire, nuclear plant owners are applying for — and getting — 20-year extensions from the NRC.
      Of the 104 U.S. reactors currently in operations, 71 have won approval to operate for another 20 years; another 15 have applied for an extension and 17 more are expected to apply for 20-year renewals.
      Japanese regulators approved a 10-year extension of the aging Fukushima plant just weeks before the 2011 accident. ****

    • What do *I* think? I think the nuke shills loaded the poll.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        A poll can be designed to generate just about any kind of results you want — by introducing inherent bias into the questions, by the selection of participants (or whom you influence to partcipate), etc. Poll results are almost meaningless w/o validation of the methodology behind them.

  • "US evacuation out at least 150-200 miles, past Tokyo?"

    This would mean a niece of mine I have been in communication with is in that target range !

    Please leave, as I have said you have people who love you near and far !

  • Sickputer

    Anthony typed these pixels of light:

    >Fukushima disaster dims US nuclear power industry growth
    A year after Japan's crisis, regulations & costs are cooling the US nuclear industry. Should the US rely more on nuclear power?

    SP: OK…I gave them my two cents…

    They will probably whack my anti-nuke comment so…the magic of copy and paste! Beats the hell out of handbills printed by hand in 1776!

    Comment: I would rather freeze in the dark and read from a candle than suffer the fate of the poor people in Japan. Fukushima Daiichi is one of the largest megaplex nuclear plants in the world if not the largest with 6 reactors and 7 huge spent fuel ponds brimming with 40 years of volatile fuel. The multiple inextinguishable nuclear corium fires underground at Fukushima Daiichi can't be quenched and that fact is acknowledged by reputable nuclear scientists of the world…not your NRC bureaucrats. The archipelago inhabited by 127 million Japanese and 70,000 US service personnel is hopelessly contaminated and the radiation continues to accumulate. The Pacific Ocean is rapidly becoming a radioactive cesspool from the world’s largest contamination in history and it grows larger every minute of every day from the hopeless feed and bleed watering efforts by the Japanese. You can’t put out a nuclear fire with buckets of water, the reactor cores are like mini-suns. Stop the emissions from Fukushima before we even mention the words nuclear power expansion. Guess what? They can’t stop the emissions in our lifetime so we better find a way to store the nuclear waste that could easily make the human race extinct. And you Homer Simpson clones…you better start reading news sources besides the ones owned by the same folks who own the nuclear power plants. Shut them all down!

  • dave14139

    Political and Economic expediency. Who would ever think that the Russians actually cared more for their own people than the Japanese??? And we the champions of freedom, let the Japanese hide the truth. Why?? To maintain artificial stock market prices? So the American people don't demand closure of nuclear plants? I cannot believe we are any nuclear reactors with full spent fuel pools to remain active in our country. We are idiots.

  • milk and cheese milk and cheese

    dave14139, you are right. this is what happens when the public is not paying attention.