Published: August 23rd, 2011 at 11:33 pm ET
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North Anna Power plant reactors shuts down – 5 pm, WAVY, August 23, 2011:
SOURCE: WAVY
At 0:58 in
[...] Amanda Reidelbach [an emergency management spokeswoman for Louisa County] said the plant was venting steam but there was no release of radioactive material [...]
h/t bmurr, anonymous tip
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LktK1mhnYIQ
Published: August 23rd, 2011 at 11:33 pm ET
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sending...
Geez! This sounds familiar. Where have I heard this before?
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[ALERT!!!] 14 plants have released radiation after the quake. North Anna may be the most significant.
Based on the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Operations Center Event Reports For 08/23/2011 – 08/24/2011, fifteen nuclear plants made emergency notifications related to the 8/23/2011 Virginia earthquake.
http://pissinontheroses.blogspot.com/2011/08/alert-north-anna-be-prepared-for.html
(re-posted)
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Hi ChasAha,
as far as I know, “declaring an alert” is not necessarily the same as “releasing radiation”.
As we’ve learnt as a group here, basically ALL nuke plant in the US (and probably elsewhere) are continuously leaking tritium.
Even without an earthquake…
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Please read the details from the ‘links’ provided at the above link.
1. I would say these issues were not standard procedure.
2. Many do not realize that these things give off radiation on a regular basis. Good point. People should be ‘alerted’ to this fact.
from NRC Event: 47181
“The ALERT was declared under EAL HA6.1. Both units experienced automatic reactor trips from 100 % power and are currently stable in Mode 3. All offsite electrical power to the site was lost. All four emergency diesel generators (EDG) automatically started and loaded and provided power to the emergency buses.
(1 failed as we now know)
While operating, the 2H EDG developed a coolant leak and was shutdown. As a result, the licensee added EAL SA1.1 to their declaration.
All control rods inserted into the core. Decay heat is being removed via the steam dumps to atmosphere.”
NOTE: They use the word ‘alert’. Now you know.
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They also routinely release small amounts of Cesium and other radionuclides. See my post further down.
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Your link..
“The most serious of the 15 emergency reports is from the North Anna Power Station in Virginia [Event Number: 47181]. The North Anna station went into complete shutdown as a result the earthquake; it lost all offsite power; it went on emergency backup generators (1 of which failed). The event report states “Decay heat is being removed via the steam dumps to atmosphere”.
Based on a quick check of the design of the North Anna unit ( a 3 loop Westinghouse), Radioactive core coolant is being pumped to a heat exchanger were it is cooled by feed water. That non-radioactive feed water is turned to steam and released directly into the environment. Under normal conditions the steam is used to power the generator turbine and is NOT exposed to the environment but is returned in a closed loop system.”
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/04.pdf
..”The auxiliary feedwater system and the steam dump system (turbine bypass valves) work to together to allow operators to remove the decay heat from reactors”..
..”if the steam dump system is not available(ex no circulating water), the steam can directly to the atmosphere through the atmospheric relief valves.”
This is them venting directly, which the article states, and it is wrong. W
hich was not needed to due the off site power provided power to operate these systems. Mainly the steam dump, as the NRC said.
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Don’t worry. That steam is as safe as eating 10,000 bananas on a plane from New York to Tokyo.
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LOL Or three trips through a TSA scanner
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Or 100 cat scans! Yikes!!!
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Or one fukushima meltdown…
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I remind you that humans are only a tiny minority in this galaxy.
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Unusual Earthquakes Strike From Colorado to New York
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/202842/20110823/unusual-earthquakes-strike-from-colorado-to-new-york.htm
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S’cuse me, teach … does a nuke vent steam at all unless … well …
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There are two “loops” of steam/water in a nuke plant. One is “hot” meaning it comes in contact with the core and is radioactive. This is heated by the core and goes to a heat exchanger, usually under pressure so it is not boiling or steam. That heat exchanger connects to the other loop of water that gets its heat from the heat exchanger. This is usually transported to the turbins as steam, turning the turbines and those turn the generators. After the generators it goes to another heat exchanger that condenses it back to water and the second loop continues. There is a third heat exchanger loop usually that extracts the residual heat from the second loop helping to condense the steam.
When the plant shuts down and the generator turbines are “free wheeling” there is still heat in the core or “hot” water system that has to be removed through the heat exchanger and the second loop. The second loop is not pushing the turbines, so the heat removal is not efficient enough to cool the second loop. Steam is looping too fast to let the heat exchangers work efficiently. Therefore the second loop has to vent the system as steam to get enough cooling. The second loop is not radioactive unless there is a leak in the system.
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“Thank you, Jebus.”
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Someone with a geiger counter needs to go down there and take readings.
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Risabee do you think radnet data are being “edited” in Seattle?
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It would not surprise me … but then not much does anymore.
FWIW my readings have been pretty low as well. Knock on wood.
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Ex-SKF has a must read article about corruption in Japan and how it is going to lead to companies being paid by the government to incinerate radioactive debris. Can you imagine reinforcing a company to incinerate radioactive debris? http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-word-to-learn-for-non-japanese.html
This is terrible news for Japan and the rest of the world. I’m sorry.
But I don’t think the Japanese are alone in deception and collusion.
What the heck is happening in the US? Why are radiation levels so high in particular US cities?
Is it all from Fukushima via the jet stream, or are there radioactive emergencies happening throughout the country?
I entertained the thought that there were indeed radioactive emergencies all over the country with Fort Calhoun’s problems and then Los Alamos fires. Then, other cities started having really high levels of radiation (as reported by the EPA).
I thought, well these high levels in Des Moines could be from Fort Calhoun and, maybe, explain the high reading s in South Dakota cities as well. I thought the high readings in a city in New Mexico (Carlsbad) and a city in Texas (Amarillo) could be from the wind blowing Los Alamos crap, coupled with censorship and substitution of radiation data in the cities with the highest levels of radiation.
Then, I saw that areas of Virginia and Harrisonburg Pennsylvania had high levels.
I figured then that Fukushima radiation was in fact spreading contamination all over the US via the jet stream.
Now there has been an earthquake in Virginia and white stuff is coming from their stacks
Really, what is happening here? What is the mechanism or mechanisms by which we are being poisoned?
I, as a citizen, feel that I have the constitutional right to know what is poisoning my country.
My government is lying to me and it appears to be colluding with the nuclear industry, whether the global or national nuclear industry makes no difference since they are one and the same.
Academics are not speaking up. I do not know whether it is because they don’t know (even in physics’ departments????) or whether it is because they are bought and/or afraid of reprisals from industry or university administrations.
What is going on? Why are levels so high throughout the country? I have written and called all my congressional representatives and the EPA. Only one has responded at all, John Kyle. He said he would forward my letter to the EPA. The EPA has not contacted me despite Kyle’s referral.
In fact, I don’t think the EPA is responding to anyone who writes or calls.
I don’t know if it is simply aging plants? I don’t know if it is aging plants and a warming, out-of-equilibrium planet.
I don’t know if weather warfare exists? I don’t know if increased solar or space activity is playing a role.
I really do not know but I do know it is time to find out what is going on!
We have the right to truthful answers. It is called transparency and it is a RIGHT.
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According to Arnie, the Japanese are incinerating radioactive debris and this debris is most likely being carried by the jet stream and raining down on us. That tent like structure soon to cover reactor 1 (that I thought was such a good idea) will have an exhause vent and will be venting radiation at a higher atmospheric level, which makes the nuclear situation as bad for the U.S. as ever!
You have to wonder about media blackouts at Los Alamos, Fort Calhoon, and Cooper nuclear plants.
You also have to wonder if the latest earthquakes are weakening nuclear plant structures.
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This needs to be abandon or destroyed. Japan’s radiation is Japans radiation. They need to evacuate, not send the radiation elsewhere so other people can evacuate or suffer.
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Transparency is a “right” because non-transparency, as we can clearly see with Fukushima, and many other dirty products of non-transparent, top-down controlled, not at all inevitable, capitalism/globalization, hyper fascist corporativism (an intense form of fascism of the present that is based solely in GREED and nothing else), simply does NOT function in realistic terms. Non-transparency and the current status quos of top-down rule, are Utopian. Transparency and empowering the masses is realistic for solving crises that effect all of us. Your post is illogical to put it mildly.
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I’m referring to Terra-not-so-enigma’s post.
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Ooops, sorry Terranigma. I was replying to Nemesis’ post directed at Majia and seem to have had my post moved to the incorrect thread. Oh well.
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“I, as a citizen, feel that I have the constitutional right to know what is poisoning my country.”
“We have the right to truthful answers. It is called transparency and it is a RIGHT.”
Majia, with all due respect, you can go ahead and make claims until you’re blue in the face, but all you’ll get is winded. Claiming that transparency is a right doesn’t make it so! Furthermore there’s nothing in the constitution that states that the government is required to keep you informed. NOTHING.
Sucks, yes, but them’s the facts.
I humbly suggest that if you care to be an effective change agent you start from the givens AS THEY ARE and go from there. Wishful thinking and asserting claims and rights that aren’t legally founded will get you nowhere. Hell, half of what IS stated as rights ain’t really so … not in today’s reality.
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I think you are wrong about the rights. As part of the transparency movement, constitutional rights are being defined in relation to government transparency and accountability.
All government agencies in the US are required to operate transparently, including budgets and non-classified information.
the EPA has to have libraries of data accessible to the public and has to report emissions over certain contractual numbers.
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http://www.epa.gov/regulations/laws/tsca.html
http://hero.epa.gov/index.cfm?action=content.transparency
Administrator Jackson emphasizes: “Our regulatory decisions should include a full explanation of the science issues addressed by the Agency, the data relevant to those issues, and the interpretations and judgments underlying the Agency”s scientific findings and conclusions…EPA promises to provide for the fullest possible public participation in decision-making. This requires not only that EPA remain open and accessible to those representing all points of view, but also that EPA offices responsible for decisions take affirmative steps to solicit the views of those who will be affected by these decisions…I am committed to fulfilling President Obama”s direction to agency heads to make use of tools and technology to increase outreach and interaction with the public. In short, we will let more sunlight into our Agency.”
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Hahaha, thanks a good one. Thanks for the laugh.
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The radiation in the U.S. from Fukushima did indeed shine a lot of sunshine into the E.P.A., much to our dismay. :>) LOL.
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+ 1
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Just my opinion, but after extensively studying radiation history and deposition in the US, I believe that high radiation levels are from a combination of factors. Some of the cities that are highest now were high also after nuclear testing in the 50′s. Probably a combination of wind factors and rain. In addition, we still have stuff blowing over from Japan and again, certain cities, not even the closest are being hit hard due to wind patterns and rain. The 3rd factor being yearly releases from nuclear reactors. I have a cesium release data sheet showing cesium releases from all reactors for 1993 and they all release radioactive material from time to time. 4th factor is we have had a media blackout for many years and the full extent of 3 mile island was never reported as was the very early accident in Southern California. The 3 mile island accident was covered up big time, with many animals killed and many humans that became very ill and often died soon after.
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@Lil:
“I have a cesium release data sheet showing cesium releases from all reactors for 1993 and they all release radioactive material from time to time.”
I believe that is your answer. Those who feel it is safe to live within 50 miles of a nuclear power plant are in for a big surprise someday. The PTB definitely don’t believe in “transparency.”
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@NP
“Those who feel it is safe to live within 50 miles of a nuclear power plant are in for a big surprise someday.”
Sadly, that’s EVERYONE on the East Coast.
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@majia:
“Academics are not speaking up. I do not know whether it is because they don’t know (even in physics’ departments????) or whether it is because they are bought and/or afraid of reprisals from industry or university administrations”
Probably for the same reason they did not speak up when Japanese-Americans were placed in concentration camps during WWII. One professor told me that they knew what was happening was wrong, but they were afraid to speak up for fear they would lose their jobs. They also did not participate in the local civil rights movement in the 60s.
Transparency? A word coined by someone we all know who has proven to be just the opposite.
Be careful majia, last night when I posted something on enenews, I found that 30 attempts of medium risk had been made in three minutes to examine my computer while I was posting.
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August 23, 2011 – Townhall Conservative – Time to Privatize Nuclear Waste Management – Americans know their nation is facing many disquieting problems: high unemployment, a government debt spiraling out of control, and a recently downgraded credit rating, to name but a few. Here’s another problem that most likely have never heard of: America’s utter lack of a plan for storing radioactive nuclear waste. Though it may not be making headlines, it’s another drag on industry and an obstacle to solving the nation’s energy challenges. In April, the Obama administration halted the development of the planned Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository, leaving the United States without any long-term storage site for radioactive waste. But the root of the problem goes back farther, to 1982, when the Nuclear Waste Policy Act put the federal government in charge of managing nuclear waste. This was the beginning of the Yucca Mountain project, intended to serve as the national storage site for spent nuclear fuel and high-level radioactive waste. Despite collecting nearly $38.5 billion from electricity consumers and spending nearly $15 billion on research, the federal government has still not collected one atom of nuclear waste.
http://www.iem-inc.com/newitems.html
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I originally thought that the halting of Yucca Mountain was purely political, since Senate majority leader Harry Reid has long opposed having it in his home state. However, I did recently learn about two problems with using Yucca as a depository and they came from sources that can’t really be called pro-nuke. First, I heard somebody say that, unlike the repositories in other countries that have developed them, Yucca mountain was the only planned nuclear waste site that was above the water table, while such facilities ought to be deep enough down that they are well below that. (I believe it was David Lochbaum of the Union of Concerned Scientists who said this–I think it was on the video posted under the title “Duxbury Emergency Management Hosts Independent Nuclear Expert Panel” on the Fairewinds page–if I am remembering correctly–that’s a very informative video more generally, by the way).
Secondly, I just stumbled upon a copy of testimony presented to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation by someone at the Environmental Working Group. That article discusses the dangers posed by the need to transport significant amounts of radiological material across the country via highways and railways, and it includes maps of the probable routes the stuff would be taking across several states. I had never thought about the safety/security aspects of transporting this material before. Not only can accidents occur during transit, but a train or truck filled with this stuff would probably be a much easier target for terrorists than a well-reinforced permanent structure (and the farther it has to travel, the more time it will spend in these vulnerable situations).
After considering this EWG analysis, I have come to the conclusion that, if we are ever going to have permanent repositories, they are probably going to have to be sites that receive waste only from a couple of nearby states or a single region, so that it will not have to get transported so far. But think about this, nobody likes the idea of having a nuclear waste dump in their own “backyard”; they much prefer the idea of sending it off to some other state in another part of the country. We need to get people to realize that, if they support building new plants or extending the lives of old ones in their state, they are most likely going to have to keep the waste in their own state or one right next to their own.
That’s a message that has to be gotten out: More nuclear power in your state = a bigger nuclear waste dump in your state too–the two will inevitably come as a package because no senator is going to allow his/her state to become a huge dumping ground for the entire country’s waste, and even if that somehow did happen, the vulnerability of the materials during the transportation process would also put everyone at risk.
The danger is that there will not be any political will to build even such regional secure storage sites (given the NIMBY factor), with the result that things will just continue as they are now, with waste dangerously piling up in unsecured and un-contained spent fuel pools and the nuke industry and politicians continuing to “kick the can down the road” until something catastrophic eventually happens.
(By the way, in the Fairewinds video mentioned above Gordon Thompson shows two striking charts starting at 00:24:01. One notes that FUK’s SFP #4 contained 1331 rods, while a typical US pool holds an average of 3180, and they are actually licensed to hold 3859!!!. Also, his second chart shows that Chernobyl is believed to have released 89 PBq of cesium-137 into the atmosphere, while the amount of cesium in the typical US SFP is 1630 PBq–and that’s not even mentioning the Plutonium there.)
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Dear Iam:
Thank you for the information. I’ve often wondered about Yucca Mountain and did not realize that they could be built “below” water tables. I love learning new things on ENE. Thanks again.
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I was mistaken. It wasn’t Lochbaum, it was also Gordon Thompson in the Q & A session at the end of the Duxbury video who mentioned the water table thing–it is around 01:05:07.
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Dear Iam: Yes, the political will thing is a problem for the future of the planet with humans . The old (dominant currently, but not inevitable) hierarchical systems based in exploitation of others and without reinforcing integrity of our always FINITE ecosystem, are running us fast, slippery and furious right into oblivion, dragging the majority of other biologic organisms with us. This is a calm, conservative, rational projection, as well. The time frame for our rapidly or exponentially diminishing quality of life, degradation of species diversity and obliteration of of the itegrity of our once gloriously radiant, inter-glaciation period “garden-of-eden” type period is coming to a close. I advise people to please study the particulars of the five previous thermal maximums that the planet has experienced (the current one, anthropogenic–which is DEFINITE by the way–is the 6th). I would start with the Late Permian Thermal Maximum, and go on to the Paleo/Eocene Thermal Maximum event. Most of the past 500 millions years has been spent in thermal maximum. It’s a shame we blew the bejeweled near perfection of an interglacial period at a high point in biodiversity. We owe stewardship and stewardship and abatement of our wastes and problems that we’ve caused is THE future. I see it as a bright or fruitful future; but it’s not going to happen even slightly on a profiteering or exploitation based model.
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Sorry about my huge amount of typos above. I’m at an age where I MUST revise revise revise. Sorry about the typo mess.
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@ Pallas89juno
No spell police here, get the thought down we will figure it out, 3 out of 5 will work ! lol
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Yucca Mountain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain
Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nuclear_waste_repository
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If no power is being produced yet a reactor is still hot and boiling water. This steam is the boiling water.. its not going to the turbines so it has to go somewhere. Or the pressure builds. Let them vent as procedure calls for and relax.
This steam is not radioactive nor is it a threat.
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jdotg–and your expertise and/or authority are?
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Father works for the largest owner and operator of nuclear plants in the united states. Exelon. And its rather simple if you understand the plants design. Whats your authority?
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Welcome to ENENEWS jdotg. As you appear to have not noticed, I’ll just mention that the general community here is anti-nuclear. Whatever the purpose or intent of the site, most of the regulars come here to keep up to date with the ongoing global disaster at Fukushima and other nuclear threats, and share information and ideas on helping humanity to avoid further radiation releases and mitigate those which have already occurred.
Unlike most issues this one requires no further debate or explanation. At this stage you either get it or you don’t. I’m guessing that as your father works in the nuclear power industry you never stood much chance of ‘getting it’. Not your fault really. But this isn’t the best place for you to air your views.
Think of it this way: the bottom line pro-nuke claim would have to be that the plants are safe, while the bottom line anti-nuke claim would be that they are not. Such opposing statements are relatively easy to test, in this case we simply apply the test of time. If you need a list of plant failures to date, and the health impact – also to date – we can supply one.
So it should be obvious that the debate cannot be won on the pro-nuke side, whereas it can clearly be won at any moment on the anti-nuke side. Any mathematician will tell you how such equations eventually pan out.
No hysteria. No tinfoil hats. Just absolute and final mathematical certainty. Unfortunately every day that we appear to lose you win, but when you lose we also lose. That’s why we’re trying so hard to change the game.
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But what if you consider another question. Do nuclear power plants make a lot of money for very few? Let’s discard this question of safe. Who cares if the plante are not safe, the reality is people die anyway who cares how they do that as long as some ( the very few) are making a profit and can pass along some savings to the masses.. (there is cheering in the background). I think you must replace the word safe with the word profit in this argument and you would paint a true picture of reality, and would sway the argument to favor the industry( that is the only reason we have more than 100 reactors hanging around in the USA). That is the reality of the argument. I’m sure Jr.could support the argument, no doubt lives in a very comfortable setting.
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Nicely put, well composed, polite thoughtful and concise. Many thanks Steven.
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Excellent response.
++++++++++++++++++
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Exelon who gave Axelrod and President Obama and support for the MOX plant in the east. And, oh yes, who want to transport radioactive waste across countries on trains who only have 2,000 to 6,000 derailments PER YEAR.
And, oh yes, Exelon which when a bill was proposed to actually tell the public when there were radioactive releases into the atmosphere successfully lobbied to have the bill junked.
The reason you can say that there are no radioactive releases is because dear Exelon had enough power to keep it legal to suppress the truth.
Why don’t you fight for legislation which would make it illegal to not release the radiation leaks to the public? Why don’t you fight for legislation which would require the permanent loss of license to operate if that information is suppressed?
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I meant across the US on trains to Yucca Mountain. Oh yes, another site subject to many earthquakes. Nevada most days has many earthquakes every day.
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Your comments remind me of ted dibiase’s entrance music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cDWPvhiPWg
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I thought that all nuclear reactors vent radioactivity every day to make the plant safe for the workers to work.
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Do you think they would tell us if they were venting radioactive material? Tepco and the Japan gov’t knew there was a meltdown on March 12 but they didn’t admit it for 3 months. Do you think there is more honesty and transparency with US authorities?
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People are very under informed about nuclear plants and there operations. Which i believe adds to the hysteria. As far as everyone knows the plant is operating to procedure. Just a generator failed. Nothing is melting so no radiation should be leaking. Unless the quake did structual damage. Which i dont believe has happened You just dont vent nuclear material or radiation. Unless a coolant loop is ruptured. They are cooling the reactor as they should. If it is leaking what can you do your already getting plenty from fuku
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What a crap comment
“If it is leaking what can you do your already getting plenty from fuku”
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Sad but true. On both fronts. Also sorry you dont approve but Thanks for contributing to the discussion..
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jtotg
I think you picked the wrong place to talk about people being “under informed” about nuclear power.
See; shill
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I suggest you google “why fukushima wont be another Chernobyl” and take notice of all the well wishers back in mid March telling us how the plants are designed better and blah blah blah…
Bottom line is we didnt believe the industry when we suspected this could happen, I’m sure you can understand our hesitations now.
I’m glad your father is protecting you from the truth, I wish I had that kind of false comfort. … is bliss.
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Mercenary Hack – rushed composition, poor grammar, gaps in logic. Clearly not recruiting the right kind of chaps any more.
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“already getting plenty from fuku” tends to suggest that the writer sees this as a positive situation.
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@jdotg:
“If it is leaking what can you do….”
Close them. All of them. Now.
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Bobby, that is so true. How? why? should we believe their words after the nuclear industry has explain to us that “everything we say is a pack of lies—–for our own good!”
Unless, that’s a lie!!!???
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Steam releases from a nuclear reactor stack are not so simple to assess by simply looking at it and being able to blithely assess whether it is “safe”.
The emissions also certainly do have some radioactivity elements anytime steam is released from the reactor vessel. That’s the elephant in the room the NRC never wants to admit. Nuclear plants leak radiation. We know it from offsite samples outside plants, but we are constrained by NRC rules that allow a certain percentage to be leaked.
The amount of radiation may be “small” by NRC standards or it may be enormous if it has bypassed the filter systems in the towers and stacks.
If the truth were told and the NRC would release the information requested…The hot burning MOX loads at Duke’s Catawba plant certainly scared the bejesus out of them when they opened the reactor lid and those plutonium-tainted vapors almost certainly strained the resources of the filters in the Catawba building vents.
I could explain it myself, but a techie guy in Tokyo named Joe Wein I have followed for a few years has an excellent explanation for the steam emissions and how it can slightly radioactive or really gushing out and I see no need to improve on his excellent explanation.
I also think from reading these two days of Joe’s blog from a couple weeks ago that maybe Arnie went to school with him on the theory of the 10 sievert hotspot condensing on the pipe (sounds really similar).
Frankly I don’t agree with Joe or Arnie on that high hotspot explanation (I prefer the taboo word myself), but I do appreciate the excellent treatise on the nuclear plant Standby Gas Treatment System (SGTS), which comprises HEPA filters followed by active charcoal filters and also the disastrous backup and previously highly vaunted venting system which we heard so much about in the early weeks in March.
Read the first blog and the second entry is also excellent in its own right:
http://www.joewein.net/blog/2011/08/08/the-worst-hot-spot-in-fukushima/
http://www.joewein.net/blog/2011/08/08/the-worst-hot-spot-in-fukushima/
Cheers…end of another long day for me…take care.
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Thanks for this information. Joe seems to be a wealth of info will be following him. No arguement here that steam from within the vessel will be radioactive. But that isnt what is being vented in VA. So it doesnt completely apply here. They are venting excess steam from the secondary loop which drives turbines. It seems to me the reactor is being cooled normally but if there is leakage in the primary coolant that can be radioactive. The steam being vented here should not be radioactive because it has no contact with the core. Please look above for jebus’s explanation. Also these two reactors (fuku & north anna) are different designs. No more radiation than during nornal operations.
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I appreciate a good discussion. You will find I am like the Splendid Splinter (aka Ted Williams…god rest his cryogenic head!) in that like him I hate to lose an argument.
Good point about the first generation BWRs (Fuku) versus second generation PWR (Pressurized Water Reactors) like North Anna, but there are problems inherent in both designs despite proponents who think the thick heat exchanger tubes are the Holy Grail of design.
It is not a safe design by any stretch of the imagination…brittle steel and concrete over time and even worse…the steam generators fail in a well-known ten year time frame which sucks for a 40-year licenses since those retrofit repairs can run $300 million.
They do leak and are a time bomb waiting to happen:
http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/pwrfact.htm
[...] The NRC has issued numerous warnings about steam generator deterioration. Commissioner Kenneth Rogers described this scenario as “a loaded gun, an accident waiting to happen.” However, current NRC requirements for inspecting steam generator tubes are inadequate to detect unsafe conditions developing in nuclear power plants. The NRC admits that neither itself nor the industry are able to predict how fast cracks in tubes can grow, noting that in the duration of one 18-month operational cycle a reactor can experience a hundred-fold increase in cracked tubes. [...]
Quite a good read on why PWRs aren’t any better than BWRs.
An interesting difference we have talked about here before is we know the PWRs like Catawba use the control rods in the top while Fukushima Daiichi has the BWR rods inserted from the bottom of the reactor vessel.
That may have played a big role in the way the bottom burned so quickly out of the reactor vessels at Fukushima, but I will certainly never live long enough to examine that physical evidence.
Thanks…I don’t think you are a shill, but I have researched and opposed nuclear plants for almost half a century and there isn’t a person on this earth persuasive enough to change my mind.
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Was a very good read, and i also replied to you at the bottom of this page, I dont want to change your opinion. Interested in understanding what you know or believe, that i do not. As far as we can tell these are just fears and nothing has happened yet, thank god. Also your report was published, 15 years ago, and still no failures.
But after there year and half operation, the plants are supposedly checked by the NRC, i can understand if they cant check during operation and problems may arise then. But i believe symptoms should show during their rigorous inspection during outage. I believe this calls in to question the capabilities of the NRC inspectors and they should do whatever is need to provide them necessary means to do their job, and ensure safety.
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The emergency venting happens also in the coal operated plants. Under normal conditions, there is a flow of power, from the generator to the grid. As soon as you cut off the flow, there huge amount of power in the system, that needs to be dissipated, to avoid huge steam explosion.
There were numerous power grid events, that failed to dissipate the energy (steam, electromagnetical, etc.), and this created an energy wave, travelling across the grid and destroying everything in its path.
Many years ago in Europe, after one power plant suddenly failed, the power plant started venting so powerfully, that everyone in the radius of 20 kms thought that this is the end of world: earth shaking, booming sound waves, steam everywhere. The poor folks didn’t know where to run for safety.
So the venting is normal in case of emergency. The more it vents, the less likely explosion.
If there is a reactor leak, then it is another story.
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This is the concern. After all there was an earthquake that could have caused a structural problem. It it is a reactor coolant loop that is leaking… Well, let’s get out our Geiger counters. The criminal elite won’t.
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Re “The steam being vented here should not be radioactive because it has no contact with the core.”
If I had a $1 for every time someone used the phrase “should not” I would be a very rich man by now.
As SP and others have pointed out there are many things to go wrong with a NPP which is really just a great big clockwork toy with nasty stuff inside. Metals corroded, fixings come loose, joints weaken. Unless inspected and maintained with the utmost diligence, time will take its inevitable toll.
This is one lesson from Fukushima that is clearly failing to be learnt in NPP installations farther afield.
It’s no point trusting the blurb on the back: you have to read the book.
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I hope everything works out! It doesnt look good though them getting caught in multiple lies within hours of the eathquake. First conflicting reports of the workers shutting the plant down and other reports it was automatically shut down when the earthquake hit. Then they go on TV saying all back up generators were working properly while knowing that atleast one of them wasnt working at all. This is all terrible news i wouldnt be surprised if there was a media blackout as of tomorrow about the whole story on all mainstream media. Sites like enenews are great cause i believe we should all know whats going on and be able to take any steps to keep ourselves safe as needed. Best of luck to all in the area. Hopefully things arent as bad as they seem for a change. Take care everyone.
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http://enenews.com/strange-spokesman-workers-virginia-nuke-plant-preparing-manually-shut-down-reactors-after-quake-when-system-automatic-shut-down-another-spokesman-manual-shutdown
please read my comments on that link.
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Majia “experts” do not answer without actual statistical data and specific reference sites to back up their words.
I’m afraid we have a few Pro-nuke folks visiting to stave off the panic they know is going to happen.
I am very concerned about incineration issues. Very.
No one(in terms of an expert) is speaking up because they know what’s about to happen.Chaos and panic. They are trying to find a diplomatic way to tell the world.
Seeing as the plates are shifting in increased form lately-I hope they hurry.
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“Unless a coolant loop is ruptured.”
Exactly what happened at FUKU 1.1 after the earthquake and before the tsunami.
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So they now suspect. Its really impossible to tell now. Also fuku is a slightly older plant, a different design, and the japan earthquake was in order of magnitude 30x stronger then the one in virgina (6 for numbers sake vs. 9) which supposedly the plant was designed to withstand. Night folks getting late, nice chatting here finally!
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Not so fast my friend…
You are talking Apples to Oranges.
Nuclear plants are rated on PEAK GROUND ACCELERATION not Earthquake Magnitude.
Some are also rated on frequency in hertz depending on the strata they are sitting on.
http://www.riskeng.com/PDF/New_Seismic.pdf
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/contract/cr6919/cr6919.pdf
http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/nukes-and-quakes/
From: Quails, Phil
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 2:31 PM
To: McCann, Edward
Subject: RE: japan
Probably beyond DBE. How do you design for a 8.9? However, even if DBE was 9, there is a likelihood some
multitude of things failed. Offsite power is gone for the forseeable future as the grid is down. I think the weak
link is the “median fragility of ceramic insulators in the electrical grid” NUREG CR 4910 (I have a copy from the
old days from somewhere).
With an 8.9, if a pipe support or snubber fails, pipe whip would probably cause a LOCA. EDGs must function.
With 8.9 they may not for a whole lot of reasons. I have a hard time believing we are transporting water in to a
facility on the coast. I hope the news article is wrong. I saw the story on MSNBC website and I know how
accurate their US political reporting of our beloved President is.
From: Kammerer, Annie aZ1•
Sent: Tuesday, March 15,2011 11:04 AM
To: Ake, Jon; Munson, Clifford
Cc: Meighan, Sean; Nguyen, Quynh
Subject: RE: Earthquake
Jon/Cliff: another request, but something we can do later today. Quynh and Sean preparing a response to the
questions, “what if an 8.9 happened at one of our plants.” This is an obvious question from the public who
doesn’t understand tectonics and one that we are going to be asked over and over.
I’m suggesting the approach to developing the response:
1) Explain that an 8.9 can’t happen at the plants
2) Explain that plants are designed to ground motions and not magnitudes
3) Figure out the distance from the plane to the plants in Japan. Try to determine rough estimates of the
ground motions at the plants (note, we have some numbers on the shakemap, but they are too low
based on the recording of 0.58g at onagawa) (Jon do you have a subduction model at your fingertips?)
4) use that estimate to compare to the ground motions and to say “this ground motion is only expected
every XX years on average at this plant. However an 8.9 can’t occur because it requires a subduction
zone….”
b.
This needs to be written up so that the public can understand.
Again, this is not the top of the list, but something to do today when we get a breather.
Sean/Quynh: we’ll do our best.
Annie
Vera, Marieliz
From:
Sent:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
Attachments:
Jain, Bhagwat
Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:31 PM
Hawkins, Kimberly; Chuang, Tze-Jer; Ma, John; Park, Sunwoo; Patel, Pravin; Tegeler, Bret;
Thomas, Brian; Thomas, Vaughn; Valentin, Milton; Vera, Marieliz; Jeng, David; Kazi, Abdul;
Xu, Jim; Shams, Mohamed; Chakravorty, Manas
Bergman, Thomas
Japan Earthquake and Fakushima plants seismic design basis
KK-TEPCO-2009-Seismic-update.pdf
All: FYI
The earthquake that hit Japan last Friday resulted in the ground shift of 8 ft ; i.e., roughly the site PGA of
2.67g. The site experienced a peak ground acceleration that was more than 2.5 times the upgraded PGA
capacity of the Fukushima units.
In March 2008 TEPCO upgraded its estimates of likely peak ground acceleration (PGA) for Fukushima to 0
.61g, and other operators have adopted the same figure. In October 2008 TEPCO accepted 1.02g PGA as the
new seismic design basis for Kashiwazaki Kariwa, following the July 2007 earthquake there. Reportedly, the
Fukushima units were upgraded to 1.02 PGA in 2009.
By comparison, the certified designs of new reactors in the US are based on PGA of 0.3g.
BP
So your assesment is without research or knowledge of the facts.
Just
Disinformation
Of
The
Government
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Please dont tell me what i know or research, I believe the magnitudes of the quake are measured at the quakes central location, thus leading me to believe that the magnitude was a good comparison point, seeing as it was the same measurement from the quakes.
It appears that the PGA is tied to the distance of the plant, the further away the further it diminishes. but north anna designed for .12-.18 pga and the quake apparently shook it at a .535 pga. The new proposed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904875404576528472240850378.html
Fuku was upgraded the amount of PGA it could take several times it appears from what you posted. The site recieved a pga of 2.67 and north anna .54. Again a signficant difference.
Also take a look for yourself,
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf18.html
“Reactors of both western and Soviet design have been subjected to major seismic activity in North America and Europe without damage. California’s power reactors, San Onofre 2 and 3 (1,070 and 1,080 MWe, PWRs) and Diablo Canyon 1 and 2 (1,073 MWe and 1,087 MWe, PWRs) continued to operate normally during the 6.6 magnitude earthquake in January 1994. San Onofre, the closer station, was about 112 km from the epicentre.”
lots of evidence of large earthquakes larger than tuesdays not damaging nuke plants around Japan and Europe and United States..also to boot, they are measured and for that matter compared in magnitude.
So i also conclude your assesment is without any of your own research or knowledge of the facts and your facts are posts from a forum.
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@jdofg, I hope you someday reach a maturity where you don’t keep justifying your father’s actions. Take George Bush II who took us into Iraq to justify or revenge his father. How many lives and been killed and destroyed?
Fukushima is slated to kill billions. Do you want to be part of the death of the rest of mankind? Your father should be able to speak for himself, unless this is just a persona assumed on your part to justify the theft of the nuclear industry of all our treasure: our water, our human life, and unbelievably the theft of our financial treasure.
Don’t you get it yet. Nuclear power is extremely uneconomical? If our government required every owner and proponent of nuclear energy to die a torturous death for every death caused by the radiation spewed by all the nuclear power plants would you still be an advocate? Can you still eat knowing that you are living on the backs of the poor? Will you give away your health insurance to a poor person?
Your arguments are totally despicable and without merit.
PLEASE face the TRUTH.
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Yeah! Now were getting somewhere! I think I touched a nerve. My points…
First of all, your first paragraph makes no sense at all.
Please dont tell me what i know or research, I believe the magnitudes of the quake are measured at the quakes central location, thus leading me to believe that the magnitude was a good comparison point, seeing as it was the same measurement from the quakes.
Doublespeak plain and simple. Has nothing to do with peak ground acceleration. Apples to Oranges.
You can have a 6.0 quake and a PGA of .25, and you can have a 5.0 quake and a PGA of 1.0. Magnitude and PGA are seperated by many different factors. Read the PDF’s
Second, You make a statement that can not be corroborated without a subscription to MSM’s WSJ.
Nuclear power pays well…
It appears that the PGA is tied to the distance of the plant, the further away the further it diminishes. but north anna designed for .12-.18 pga and the quake apparently shook it at a .535 pga.
The new proposed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904875404576528472240850378.html
Third, You acknowledge that nuclear plants can and do experience quakes beyond their design rating.
Yes, fuku was upgraded to 1.02 PGA in 2009 and the site experienced a peak ground acceleration that was more than 2.5 times the upgraded PGA capacity of the Fukushima units.
Thank you, It happens!
By comparison, the certified designs of new reactors in the US are based on PGA of 0.3g. but north anna is designed for .12-.18 pga and the quake apparently shook it at a .535 pga.
Thank you for the data I was looking for…
Fourth, You post your pro nuke link to the World Nuclear Association and their motto is….
Representing the people and organisations of the global nuclear profession.
And you start quoting Earthquake Magnitudes again, Nice…
Fifth, You make your last statement obviously without reading the two PDF files that show how a nuclear site is evaluated for PGA and frequency in hertz of ground movement. PDF files by the NRC.
And the BLog I posted merely gives you a google interactive map made by an intelligent individual showing some probability data for all the US Nuclear Power Plants from NRC data.
So i also conclude your assesment is without any of your own research or knowledge of the facts and your facts are posts from a forum.
That last one is gonna bite.
My facts? Try reading my facts.
http://www.datafilehost.com/download-09444723.html
Size: 48.25 MB
My facts and data happens to be straight from the horses mouth, the horse that you ride, that feeds you, pays for your WSJ subscription, radiates you with nucleotides and in all the laws of probabilities and averages will give you or a loved one cancer in the near future.
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I come everyday to read but have participated less and less. But the “jdotgs” encourage me to chime in, to defend our faithful posters critical view points, and to shake my head (in print) at anyone who defends a nuke plant, even gently and sublimely defends… All we need is a specific computer virus, a large enough Electro Magnetic Pulse, or an old dormant fault line to become active to destroy our country, too, just like Japan.
Speaking of EMPs in the US of A, one of these vids talks about a known terrorist goal to activate one here:
Part 2 (done in March 2011 i think)
(skip the first 5-10 min adverts for a different vid)
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/glenn/rumorsofwar/
Part 1 (done Jan/Feb 2011 ish)
1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCwatoCA204&feature=related
2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeNuWP5FMBE
3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StfFePOgyvY
4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtAOuyyLFSs
5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGkCZvHVmkk
[If you made it this far, then remember: And a third of the waters was poisened (wormwood) and those that ate or drank from it died. Pacific Ocean post Fuku, no?
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Let us all remember that millions of workers make a living for their families in the nuclear industry and many of us on the list want to end it.
I would expect no less that they would defend their livelihood. They may wonder why we don’t go after the other 90% of toxin-producing industries with such fervor.
Maybe because even DDT goes away eventually even if it takes a full human lifetime. But the human race can’t outrun a plutonium half-life…we will never survive massive radioactive contamination world wide in our current species form.
Worst case scenario only mutant humans will be alive in a few hundred years and the world will be a very ugly place.
We could change that prediction, but the odds are against us and time is running out. The Doomsday clock is far closer to midnight than the 6 minutes it currently shows.
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/columnists/kennette-benedict/fukushima-and-the-doomsday-clock
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officerdave, good to see you around. I’ve always enjoyed reading your posts, and I’d be happy to read from you more often again!
*peace
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If we look at how industry and jobs and an addiction to oil/gas energy came about the last hundred years and hard to separate ourselves from oil/gas for lose of jobs in the field is tremendous with so much being made through and from this industry, we are better then 40 years now into nuclear energy and the addiction will be much more sever with consequence’s as Japan is suffering now with power shut downs causing factory’s and whole industries to be lose to other countries that have the energy to produce and continue the cycle of addiction to an energy that have not had a major accident YET that is proved to be much less safe then oil/gas ever was even with all the oil spills to date !
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Thanks, BreadAndButter.
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North Anna
Number of Reactors: 2
Location: 40 miles NW of Richmond, VA
Reactor Type: Pressurized Water Reactor
Plant Operator: Dominion Generation
Maximum Ground Acceleration: 2% likelihood it will exceed 0.11g in the next 50 years
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classic. “Art has been working on this all day long!” cut to Art, who proceeds to read the statement from the nuclear power company out loud from a print out they gave him! nice job, Art!
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I’ve never been too convinced of the whole “shills visiting anti-nuke sites” theory, but I must admit, reading some of the above changed my mind.
Majia, you made some great points. I’m curious to see rad levels in that area. I’m SURE some people are taking readings.
Anf hopefully, this situation is a wake-up call for many!
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There are people employed to push views on the net full time. Early on there were more of them. No doubt they are still about. Enenews linked to a story about the CIA boasting of a new computer program they developed that lets their staff operate 10 bogus identities at a time on the net, all untraceable and in some way credible. Those identities can then be used to sway public opinion. Of course there are other dirty tricks like posting nonsense to put people off, or insulting people to drive them away. I have observed some very obvious shills on this site over time, and some obvious disinformation from them.
Note that Enenews also published a link (or was it in the comments section) to an article describing the Japanese government (or was it Tepco?) advertising Tenders for a PR firm to monitor and manage social media and web sites regarding the Fukushima disaster. They were going to spend a fortune on it over the first year, with a full time staff of shills posting their lies all over the place.
So its good to see the old timers pull out the knowledge we have gained from following this man made disaster and defend it from the disinformation campaign.
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Just realize, Fall Out Man, those 100+ U.S. nuclear reactors susceptible to earthquakes and hurricanes. Earthquakes and hurricanes that can be manufactured just about anywhere, if you believe in geophysics and weather warfare, which I do.
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+1
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Thanks, Misitu. I forgot to mention tornadoes.
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or typhoons?
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It is interesting to note that when the nuke industry is defending their plans for nuke plants they refer to peak ground acceleration for engineering purposes and to refute the quake magnitude questions. Apples to oranges.
When talking to the public after earthquakes, they talk about the magnitude of the quake and how their plants are designed for this and that magnitude of a quake.
Does anyone have the engineering peak ground acceleration data for the North Anna Plant?
I am searching for that and the peak ground acceleration data for the Mineral Virginia earthquake.
Anyone?
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I bet none of the pro nuclear people will step into a hazardous area and say its safe. All Talk no action, then they lie and cover up the truth. This is what is wrong with many countries and America people put in positions that do not believe in right and wrong and lie cheat, and coverup truth hell will be getting full.
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External power supply restored:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/business/2011/aug/24/-site-power-restored-north-anna-nuke-plant-ar-1258861/
..hopefully..
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@BreadAndButter:
Hurricane Irene is strengthening and appears to be headed in the direction of North Anna. How long will those power lines last? Maybe we’ll be lucky and it will veer away. Do we really want to depend on luck to protect us from a meltdown?
Even with the best of luck we are still in an extremely precarious position vis-a-vis nuclear power plants.
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NoPrevarication,
I know. We must shut the beasts down. All of them. Now.
You’re having quite a hard time over there, I really hope you’ll all be safe.
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“Living is easy with eyes closed”
-John Lennon
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This is the atmospheric dispersion forecast for the next few days from the HYSPLIT model, just in case North Anna is releasing radiation. It goes over New York City at 2000 meters.
http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/141297_trj001.gif
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Hold your nose; this one’s no rose!
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@ StillJill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM&feature=player_embedded
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In 2001 after the attacks, the major news media carried stories saying Islamic radical terrorist training camps could have turned out as many as 14,000 to 17,000 commandos.
Now, there are three possibilities as to why we’ve not heard anymore on this: 1) it was baloney, 2) there have been attacks and they’ve been blacked out of the news, or 3) there’s some kind of technology for sending information to the past, from the future. You can laugh all you want about the last one, but don’t rule it out.
Maybe there have been attacks, even radiological attacks, and they have been censored. Considering what has been done in the past, even by Americans to Americans, and what is being done the same now and in Japan, too, it’s entirely possible that terrorists have used dirty bombs in places and it was just covered up entirely.
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looks like a stir for conspiracy theorists this one … am only replying to flag up as potentially irrelevant.
The loose logic and weasel words fx “it’s entirely possible that” form the first plank of a court case here. Let’s move on.
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Well, I for one am not even slightly worried about the nearly 40 year old heat exchanger that couldn’t possibly be nearing or past it’s functional life leaking when that is the only thing between incredibly radioactive core water and the external steam loop. Particularly after it’s been shaken by an unexpected 5.9 earthquake and now they are venting large quantities of steam to air. On a reactor that’s running on 1 out of 2 backup generators because apparently they lost connection to the power grid.
No, I’m not worried. Worried would imply I think they have a chance of doing something right. No worry of that.
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LOL
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All these old nuclear reactors still working. Like a fleet of 1957 Chevies still working Taxi in New York. All with rusty rocker panels, front fenders rusted out leaky rads and billowing out blue smoke.
Many Fuki’s out there waiting to happen. If political action won’t shut them down better save up for a geiger counter. No need to ask why we don’t trust government….
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And when they kaput … we will fade away as the tail lights in the far distance with the same age musical exit of doo whaa.. weeeee… into the night !
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Where is the EPA with their monitoring devices? I’m having a flashback to THree Mile Island .. “Don’t worry, there is no radiation release.”
It’s a nightmare. Our government refuses to monitor the air, water, soil and food.
I’m thinking of starting a “stay at home” protest. Why should you go outside when the government isn’t willing to test the air and rain? Stay at home. Stop spending money.
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Here is the EPA concerning the BP oil.
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/GrijalvaLtWHouseJan25.pdf
EPA=Traitors to Humanity
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Well I guess I was right about the time frame to fix the electrical power. I also saw another page earlier at work (no time to save the link) mentioning North Anna admitted to NRC they vented “decay heat”. Hmm *;-0
More generators news…I also forgot about the spent fuel needs also for power…these plants are beyond ticking time bombs…
http://www.virginiabusiness.com/index.php/news/article/offsite-power-restored-to-dominions-north-anna-power-station/313887/
Excerpted:
[...] Its four diesel generators supplied power while off-site power was unavailable. Dominion Virginia Power said one of the four generators was taken off-line to repair a generator coolant leak, but a fifth generator at the station was activated to replace it until offsite power was restored. At this time, repairs are complete to the diesel generator. [...]
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I would think any time a reactor gas been put into HOT SHUT DOWN automatic or manually they would need to Vent !
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@Sickputer:
“….Dominion Virginia Power said one of the four generators was taken off-line to repair a generator coolant leak, but a fifth generator at the station was activated to replace it until offsite power was restored.”….
Probably information from the future being sent to the past. :>)
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I appreciate your opinion on me not being any shill or any other name whoever sees fit, and all posters from enenews visitors. I try not to slander people or their ideas with insults, also not propagate my ideas upon others. Everybody has there right, last time i checked its america, and it discourages me that this is how many people resort to prove their opinions. Im all for a open discussion. After that id like to say that i understand the dangers of these plants very well and have studied nuclear accidents since high school, now im an unbiased college student looking to engage in discussion and possibly learn and teach others. Simply because this plants and nuclear engineering fascinates me. I try to discuss facts and not theories and work with what is known. I also have access to somebody very closely tied to the electrical generation industry, be it of all kinds from nuke to wind, my father. I appreciate all talk pro and anti nuke, and could care a less about either. More interested in other types of talk.
With that said id like all of you to look at the this link, you only have to read the introduction to understand my point.
http://www.nuceng.ca/papers/decayhe1b.pdf
and then this to understand a PWR system design.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/04.pdf
page 4-2 describes the seperate (primary and secondary) coolant loops.
page 4-22 discusses decay heat. What it is, why it happens, and its removal process.
“During normal operation, the heat produced by fission process is removed by the reactor coolant and transferred to secondary coolant in the steam generators.”..
..”even after the reactor has been shutdown, there is a significant amount of heat produced by the decay of fission products (decay heat).”..
..”The auxiliary feedwater system and the steam dump system (turbine bypass valves) work to together to allow operators to remove the decay heat from reactors”..
..”if the steam dump system is not available(ex no circulating water), the steam can directly to the atmosphere through the atmospheric relief valves.” This is them venting directly, which was not needed to due the genearator’s power and then in the middle of the night, off site power provided power to operate these systems.
“Either method of stem removal, the heat is being removed from the reactor coolant system, and the temp can be reduced to desired levels.”
Furthermore all power plants have Operating Systems that log each and every event taking place at all times. Which is submitted to the NRC when accidents happen. As is required by the licensee contracts
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part030/part030-0050.html
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jebus typed these pixels of light–
My facts? Try reading my facts.
http://www.datafilehost.com/download-09444723.html
Size: 48.25 MB
sp; gee….i downloaded that file in 25 seconds…i think my internet speed is on fuku steroids tonight..
ok jebus don’t have a coronary infarction… lol…i kinda like the kid myself…somebody has to get a job shepherding these lame duck plants into mothballs and at least he interfaces quite well and is polite.
hey…i remember that doc…i pegged it weeks ago from captaind on hp… 8;-0 damn shift key…can’t even get a decent smiley… looks like homer simpsons brain…
anyway…check out page 168 for some fawning intros from brian thomas about some of his revolving door buddies i mentioned earlier..
that pdf is very interesting…but as i mentioned two weeks ago…in case some spook thinks i am a hacker…nope…it was freely open at the nrc website and posted by captain d before me. if the spooks want it back i’ll email them the master. lol
ciao
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Hey SP, I’m good, I haven’t even hit the throttle yet, and I did not mean to take away any credit. I meant that in the context of my post. But I am through being polite and pretty. Well I never was pretty…
Don’t worry bout the pdf, we wouldn’t even be hearing from you if you were a bad monkey on that.
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jebus sez…Don’t worry bout the pdf, we wouldn’t even be hearing from you if you were a bad monkey on that.
what makes you think we haven’t got him already and i’m the spook posting for him while we waterboard his silly face…. lol just kidding…blub blub
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Whats that red laser thingie in your avatar, on the front of your shirt. And don’t look now, but there is someone behind you in that pic…
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jebus sez… Whats that red laser thingie in your avatar
photo of a plutonium pellet…you should sneak around a little more jebus…try looking at facebook enenews once in a while and you can click into my profile and see the bigger picture….lol
or maybe try this ugly url;
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=267421539935860&set=a.239664686044879.70664.100000040470757&type=1&theater
will smith…not the actor though
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i forgot some of our regs are fb allergic…so here’s another peep of the avatar blown up;
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/sickputer/loneranger.jpg
me and arnie would make a good team over in tokyo, huh…lol
i subbed in a lone ranger mask replacing my former guy fawkes mask because i remembered the punishment they were going to give him until he checked out on them…drawn and quartered is not my idea of a fun day at the park..especially the drawn part… hah
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Facebook! And you said you knew puters! :O
Never have never will, I’d rather remain anonymous, I am everywhere, and I’ve been there since ’85…
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don’t be such a troglodyte my friend…fb is just a tool and you can bend it like beckham
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Lol, My cave has much more powerfull tools than adbook, err facebook and I have a day job.
I guess I’m just old school with new tools…
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heck thats not my real fb btw…just a spook shield…you need to keep up with the joneses my friend…and don’t look back…they might be gaining on you… —sachel paige
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NYPD And CIA Are Running A Multi-Billion Dollar Secret Domestic Spy Operation
http://reedperry.com/2011/08/24/nypd-and-cia-are-running-a-multi-billion-dollar-secret-operation/
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You guys are rather funny, and i have rather enjoyed both our discussions, SP and Jebus. That doc is a read, will devote more time to that tomorrow, school isnt back til 29th plenty of free time still
Personal favorite so far has to be page 300, i got a chuckle.
As for the that revolving door, its provided us with a comfortable life to say the least, not something proud to admit, but as previously said, “why bite the hand that feeds?” My father started as meter reader at the local company, and then as a plant operator and finally up into management, and generation dispatch..
No need to go into specifics, but if those “spooks” really want to know im sure they have our IP lol
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jdotg aka joe college typed these pixels of light…if those “spooks” really want to know im sure they have our IP lol
sp; speak for yourself whiteman…lol what makes you think they can track the lone ranger and tonto …
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JdotG, re “My father started as meter reader at the local company, and then as a plant operator and finally up into management, and generation dispatch..”
My curiosity only, but did your dad get a BSc, PhD, etc., in Nuclear Physics or Nuclear Power Engineering, during all that?
Need To Know, on a Need To Know basis.
M.
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Yeah, jdotg, you’re funny, too, in a strange, sort of shill-like way……
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And your here you are again, out to bash me for my beliefs, with ridiculing and name calling. Still a free country, right? Again ill say it, believe what you want and ill do the same. Dont hate me, we are all living in this world together and will have to deal with the consequences as a whole.
Cheers
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yeah…better get your flame proof drawers when you mess with the digital natives like us.. just kiddin…we are fairly harmless…blame it on our medulla oblongotas being a little worse for the weather…
kinda hazy today danny…yep…it looks like a cesium cloud to me… danny…well thats better then the damn plutonium fog from yesterday.
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I think that might have been some 85Kr in the cirrostratus?
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It might seem not to be too relevant, but a lack of care in presentation suggests haste, which suggests a lack of concentration, alternatively pressure of time on the writer, either of which suggest, in turn, a lack of commitment: the writer does not really believe that his cause, his case, his reason for contributing here, that any of these are genuine.
I, and many others, are here because we have a genuine interest in the still unfolding calamity at Fukushima and its wider consequences in the long term for humanity and the biosphere. We tend to be thoughtful in what we write and careful in how we express it.
The persona of “jdotg” shows signs of lacking genuineness, in backing out of confrontations, and in having recourse to facile and disingenuous faux-pacifist sentiments such as “We are all [in it] together”, the latter a blatant invitation to topic diversion.
I find it difficult to accept j.g on face value and prefer to think of his contributions here as being from the school of creative writing.
If I am correct, it would illustrate the lengths to which the nuc.disinfo brotherhood go to in order to divert productive discussions.
My 2p.
M.
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shill is a funny word…kinda like spam…and it would make a pretty funny monty python song also you think…. i feel a funny poem coming on from one of the regs…lol
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
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Or..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Fyf0eTyoI
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don’t know which is my favorite monty python…the spam scene, the bird carrying a coconut or this one …which might be more japan-timely
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
CUSTOMER: Here’s one — nine pence.
DEAD PERSON: I’m not dead!
MORTICIAN: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing — here’s your nine pence.
DEAD PERSON: I’m not dead!
MORTICIAN: Here — he says he’s not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
DEAD PERSON: I’m not!
MORTICIAN: He isn’t.
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon, he’s very ill.
DEAD PERSON: I’m getting better!
CUSTOMER: No, you’re not — you’ll be stone dead in a moment.
MORTICIAN: Oh, I can’t take him like that — it’s against regulations.
DEAD PERSON: I don’t want to go in the cart!
CUSTOMER: Oh, don’t be such a baby.
MORTICIAN: I can’t take him…
DEAD PERSON: I feel fine!
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“We’ve come for your liver.”
———–
“But I’m still using it”
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Shill?
No. I want to be a lumberjack….
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I’m a nuke shill
And I’m okay
I lie all night
And I lie all day
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I’m a nuke shill
And I’m okay
I lie all night
And I lie all day
cont..
and when she blows
i guess you know
that sam the shill
will run over the hill
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A shill, plant or stooge is a person who helps a person or organization without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with that person or organization.
^Wiki,
please please, its “Joe ‘stooge’ College”. If your name calling id prefer it be stooge rather then shill. Also by that definition and admitting father works in industry, the shillyness should be retired.
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
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“Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition”
Very ironic, risabee. The first thing you see….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprjmoSMJ-o
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Shill – spill – grill -
I am astonished by your good humor in the face of this onslaught.
I’m as anti-nuke (at this point of our unevolvement) as possible. We children cannot handle nuclear power, the power of the sun, the power once attributed only to gods.
We cannot handle this power till we match the god-like technical power with an equivalent attainment of godlike ethical, conscious power—something like the way the indigenous respect the powers of nature, the powers given to us.
We must match the power of atomic fission with the power of consciousness.
Good luck, jdotg. I hope you will keep hanging in here.
It’s not your fault you are associated with Exelon. I’ll keep talking to you.
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Thanks dharm, i appreciate the kind words. Internet insults dont bother me. Its not my fault, but im certainly not going to complain about it either. It provided me my education and soon to be a retired mans pension, after 42 years of hard work from the bottom to the top. we arent either anti or pro nuke as discussed before. Its just eye opening the way people attack you as such, if you dont make anti nuke comments.
But its fine i brush it off, there is good in all people, somewhere, hopefully, i come here to educate myself and hopefully talk with people that are more in the know then me, im pointing to you jebus and sp, others resorts to personal attacks. although i didnt notice that post until just nowish, my comment was out of line towards you, but felt the same as yours towards me, it did bite a little bit, but that cancer by your odds will bite us all
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@jebus. although i didnt notice that post until just nowish, my comment was out of line towards you, but felt the same as yours towards me, it did bite a little bit, but that cancer by your odds will bite us all
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Jdotg,
I keep reading your comments and made up my mind what exactly it is I’m having problems with. I think it’s your lack of shown compassion for the ones who suffer.
What I DO appreciate though is the fact that you present your opinion in a « cool, calm & collected » manner – maybe too cool for some of us here.
I’m a little bit sorry if I came across rude as well, but i just can’t understand how anybody today – after all the terrible accidents and suffering that happens, after all the ongoing lies of authorities, which all give a hint something will go terribly wrong again in the future –
how after all that anybody can still say « I’m neither pro-nuke nor anti-nuke ».
That surely makes people here think you didn’t get the message.
Nuclear energy has been a terrible mistake from the beginning.
And we will not have to wait another 25 years fort he next meltdown.
And the NRC is a bunch of filthy liars. Period.
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j.g
“please please, its “Joe ‘stooge’ College”. If your name calling id prefer it be stooge rather then shill. ”
If /I/ want to call someone a name, it will be a name I choose, should I feel that the name that person themself chooses is seriously inappropriate.
I have never referred to you as a shill. Others have, and maybe they are correct.
I have, though, expressed doubts as to your genuineness both as a contributor and as supposed son of a nuclear power plant worker.
Neither do I care for your attempts to defend yourself using the language of the junior school playground.
You have used up too much bandwith in my opinion and I trust that you, or your employer if someone is paying you to write stuff here, will figure out it’s not worth shovelling in nonsense any more.
You /may/ be genuine. If so, please increase your mental calibre somewhat, and contribute with more relevancy.
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Did anyone else notice that jdotg morphed from a college student into some one soon to receive a retirement pension? http://enenews.com/virginia-nuke-plant-venting-steam-spokesman-says-no-release-of-radioactive-material-video/comment-page-1#comment-124923
jdotg
August 24, 2011 at 10:53 pm
now im an unbiased college student
jdotg
August 25, 2011 at 2:49 am
school isnt back til 29th
jdotg
August 25, 2011 at 4:27 am
Thanks dharm, i appreciate the kind words. Internet insults dont bother me. Its not my fault, but im certainly not going to complain about it either. It provided me my education and soon to be a retired mans pension, after 42 years of hard work from the bottom to the top. we arent either anti or pro nuke as discussed before. Its just eye opening the way people attack you as such, if you dont make anti nuke comments.
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Thanks anne. Good point(s). Personally, I like the claim “unbiased” ….Uh huh, sure.
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Yup, saw that too !
Maybe they’re sharing the fee.
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Maybe he has the new Windows Time Machine Apt. !
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From anne
August 28, 2011 at 4:58 pm
“anyone else notice that jdotg morphed from a college student into some one soon to receive a retirement pension?”
“provided me my education and soon to be a retired mans pension”
I have to revise my response, as j.g’s creative writing skills clearly now extend to obfuscation, his quoted phrase seeming to collate his pensionable dad and his educated [sic] goodself. As you and I both swallowed the convolution! and spent a few minutes gulping fresh air after realising it was either totally careless construction or another skilful diversionary tactic.
My guess is careless.
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Maybe jdotg is Rod Adams Jr…..
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@anne …please make sure you dont point that intellect at me…
im an old git and will remain an old git and unlike jdotg im proud of being an old git, now im off to find me plastic bullets!….lol
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Misitu,
Great post. My sentiments exactly, however, I think you should have used smaller words so that our resident Joe College Stooge/Shill could actually understand it.
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That was my plan exactly <8-))
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