WIPP Expert: Nuclear waste is getting out above ground — Plutonium / Americium found in “every single worker” on site when leak began — New Mexico officials ‘totally unsatisfied’ with lack of info from Feds — “We don’t know how far away it’s gone” — Continuing threat for long time to come (AUDIO)

Published: March 5th, 2014 at 1:27 pm ET
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Interview with WIPP expert Don Hancock of Southwest Research and Information Center, Nuclear Hotseat with Libbe HaLevy, Feb. 25, 2014 (at 22:30 in):

  • Don Hancock, Southwest Research and Information Center: We don’t know how far away [contamination has] gone. That’s one of the questions that needs to be figured out.
  • Libbe HaLevy, host: What, if any, signs are there that the leak is ongoing?
  • Hancock: They still have amounts of radiation that they’re reading in the underground at WIPP. The DoE is saying that the filter system is 99.97% effective. We don’t know that that’s true because we don’t have laboratory results back, how much radioactivity those filters are actually catching. We are a long way from having all the sampling we need in the above ground to know how much is out. We can presume that minute amounts can still be coming out through the filter system even if the filter system is working perfectly. The filter system doesn’t work 100% perfect — 99.97%, if it is working that well is good, but that means there’s 0.03% that is getting out. So it will be a continuing problem until all of the contamination, both underground and above ground is cleaned up. […] It’s a continuing potential threat to people for a long time to come.

Interview with WIPP expert Don Hancock of Southwest Research and Information Center, Nuclear Hotseat with Libbe HaLevy, Mar. 4, 2014:

  • Hancock (at 3:00 in): Apparently every single worker on the site when the alarm was triggered late night on Valentine’s Day Feb. 14 received internal dose […] at least 13 [have] confirmed internal radiation. So that bodes the possibility of some serious health consequences.
  • Hancock (at 11:00 in): The government has not been accurate in what it has said [….] The information flow has been bad. I know of nobody that thinks the information flow has been good. I was just on the phone in the last half hour with the New Mexico secretary of the environment department, the state official who is most responsible for the State’s activities at the WIPP site, and he was saying he is still totally unsatisfied with the lack of information the DoE is giving him and his regulatory agency — not to mention the further lack of information that the public is getting.

Feb. 25 interview hereMar. 4 interview here

Published: March 5th, 2014 at 1:27 pm ET
By

291 comments

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291 comments to WIPP Expert: Nuclear waste is getting out above ground — Plutonium / Americium found in “every single worker” on site when leak began — New Mexico officials ‘totally unsatisfied’ with lack of info from Feds — “We don’t know how far away it’s gone” — Continuing threat for long time to come (AUDIO)

  • waiono

    http://krqe.com/2014/03/04/as-leak-investigation-continues-wipps-future-uncertain/

    be sure to read the comments from Karen Brackett, specifically the permit changes sought by WIPP just 4 days prior to the accident

    • rogerthat

      waino, good stuff indeed:

      Heaton also questions claims that New Mexico’s salt sites are stable enough to hold radioactive material.

      “Within a mile of the WIPP site, there are more than 100 operating oil and gas wells. There are reserves of oil and gas directly underneath where the waste is at WIPP. That’s not what you would call stability for thousands of generations,” Heaton said.

      – what could go wrong, go wrong, go wrong ….

      • rogerthat

        … and to echo, read karen bracket!!!!

      • We Not They Finally

        Aside from the drilling itself, doesn't that contaminate the oil and gas? (Like duh.)

        • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

          @wntf; "Yes" I believe it would contaminate the gas at least since the "fracking" experiment that did produce a huge volume of gas also left it so highly contaminated that it had to be stored in another underground storage cavern after being piped into homes before tests showed it was very hazardous to consumers who heated homes & worse when used for cooking!! I think it was even posted in the ENE archives somewhere at one time a few years back(?)! I think it was directly related to "the only nuke detonation east of the Mississippi" or something like that??!! Too tired to find it now though although it was used in homes in several states before they found it to be a bad idea! 🙁 ….

      • There are oil and gas deposits UNDER WIPP.

        What are the odds of someone drilling for those with slant drilling and hitting the mine by 'accident' someday?

  • mairs mairs

    Interesting that a Carlsbad resident said they had finally built a bypass route around the city for nuclear waste shipments, but that they used to drive through town toward WIPP. That was true for Santa Fe as well. They finally built a bypass route for nuclear waste, and I remember that officials didn't want it developed along there, but that's what the landowners are doing, putting up housing developments. Can't resist a four lane highway opening up access to land.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    waiono, good stuff, and pretty sure this statement means we and all future generations are thoroughly screwed. 🙁
    "Federal funding to continue research"

    Shut all the Nuclear Crap down now!

  • James Tekton James Tekton

    "This sounds like more of what Hancock called ''the further lack of information that the public is getting.'' Mumble, mumble, burble, burble, bullshit baffles brains.

    Roger that, Roger.

    They have been at it for over 71 years and here is something new from good ol George Washington's page.

    "Above-ground nuclear tests – which caused numerous cancers to the “downwinders” – were covered up by the American, French and other governments for decades. See this, this, this, this, this and this."

    He provides plenty of reference links to what has been said here before.

    Government Has Engaged In Nuclear Cover-Ups For 71 years:

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/nuclear-cover-ups.html

    .

  • I really hope they are giving the workers some DTPA for their exposure.

    Anyone know if these nuclear waste facilities and power plants have onsite medical that provides prophylactics and post-exposure treatment for radiation exposure? I would think so, and really really hope so.

  • SadieDog

    DOE Town Hall Meeting on WIPP, March, 6 2014, Carlsbad ,New Mexico, 5:30 p.m.
    http://www.nmenv.state.nm.us/NMED/Issues/DOE_MediaAdvisory_030614TownHall.pdf

  • Sickputer

    Texas will open up Andrews Waste Site for more hot poison if WIPP gets sealed.

    http://www.wcstexas.com/

    Yes…you got to love those big profits from nuclear waste for broke ass little west Texas counties:

    "COMMUNITY SUPPORT

    WCS is creating jobs and revenue for Andrews County and the State of Texas. In addition to the initial payments of $25 million and $2.5 million provided to the State of Texas and Andrews County, respectively, by the State of Vermont, in 2013 – with less than a year of disposal operations – fees associated with WCS’ disposal operations generated over $8 million for the State and $1,500,000 for the County."

    http://www.wcstexas.com/stewardship

    The county gets another $600,000 leasing fee every month.

    SP: Good stewardship should never be mentioned in the same sentence with million year dangerous nuclear debris. Waste must go somewhere, but it would be a hell of a lot better if all the plants were closed, all the atomic bomb and depleted uranium weaponry was shuttered and then the waste would have a finite weight and an eventual dump resting place.

    The world's militaries and nuclear engineers just continue to promote and produce the Future Shock poisons without any regard for their children or grandchildren or descendants farther in the future than man has even existed.

    Do nukies have any guilt or worries about their kids? Or do they think future technology not yet invented will keep them safe? Mad hatter pipe dreams

    • jec jec

      If it was so SAFE..why doesnt DOE LEAVE it in its current location? Why is LLNL being told to remove the radiation waste from the 'hill?" Why is DOE being threatened with legal action and fines because they are not removing the radiation debris? Its because those locations/authorities have identified how dangerous this material is, and already know of the health damages done!! Why doesnt DOE just 'pay' Savannah or Hanford to store its high radiation waste? Because the states know its dangerous from experience. Its like a pebble under a nut game..you never know where the pebble is..consider pebble as radiation..the nut..welll…you are on your own..

    • Homolumina Homolumina

      I hope this plant is right next to where George W. lives…

  • Bones Bones

    "The government has not been accurate in what it has said." – No, it has been lying. That is it.

    I think you guys are kinda cool here. I mean I love Enenews and you guys rock! That is speaking inaccurately. lol

    • SadieDog

      Some of the 13 workers who were exposed during the Feb. 14 night shift were union members. Another 140 employees showed up for work the following day, and union officials say if there's any doubt about whether they were exposed, more tests should be done.

      • hmmmm … a Kumbaya with troops from the RSS Ronald Reagan?

      • jec jec

        Doubts the workers were exposed? Just fishing for time for the public to go 'back to sleep.' The workers.."sleep".. could be a little more permanent. What happens when their dosimeter badges say they have the max rads? OH..the dosimeters do not measure Alpha.do they!?? Oh..ARE they even wearing dosimeter badges? Any other protections? Or has DOE made another 'executive' decision?

        Congressmen and Senators of New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma..you have a job to do to protect your citizens.so where are your actions? Writing another letter to DOE? Think its going to take more than paper…

  • Bones Bones

    "The information flow has been bad. I know of nobody that thinks the information flow has been good. […on the phone] the New Mexico secretary of the environment department […and he was saying he is still totally unsatisfied with the lack of information.]

    PEOPLE!! Open the valves, quick! The information pipes are clogged!!! Nothing will change till those pipes get unclogged! I mean look how many think that pipe is clogged! Sure, plutonium…those clogged pipes!! The radiation seems to be getting to these peoples' brains as they talk with less sophistication and command than children.

    • Bones Bones

      "The information flow has been bad. I know of nobody that thinks the information flow has been good. […on the phone… the New Mexico secretary of the environment department…] he was saying he is still totally unsatisfied with the lack of information.

      PEOPLE!! Open the valves, quick! The information pipes are clogged!!! Nothing will change till those pipes get unclogged! I mean look how many think that pipe is clogged! Sure, plutonium…those clogged pipes!! The radiation seems to be getting to these peoples' brains as they talk with less sophistication and command than children.

  • Max Sievert Max Sievert

    KRQE Says WIPP Plutonium Radiation Leak Is Like Eating Banana
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL4a6Of-PTU

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    13 Workers Now Test Negative For Plutonium and Americium In Followup Tests.
    Potrblog Headline

    http://pissinontheroses.blogspot.com/2014/03/good-news-its-believable-13-wipp.html

  • The Debill is in the details.

    Who did the testing?

    How did they do the testing?

    What critical threshold for minimum detection did they use?

    What were they testing for?

    Who did the calibration of the testing equipment?

  • Remember; any food with less than 1,200 Bq/kg is ok to eat and legal to sell in the USA..

    Total insanity, but that means they can say there is no 'detectable' radiation level in food under that amount.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    WIPP clean rooms set up for experiments

    " — Two multi-ton clean rooms have been lowered into the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant for eventual physics experiments that need to be shielded from cosmic rays and naturally occurring radiation on the surface of the Earth.

    WIPP, a Department of Energy's nuclear waste repository in salt beds 2,150 feet below the surface, will be the host for the next several years for a high-energy physics project called EXO."

    The DOE's Office of Science funded the EXO high energy physics project at WIPP several years ago. The EXO project, proposed by a Stanford University scientist who will work with an international team, will use an indirect technique to try to measure the mass of a neutrino, one of the elementary particles in physics, Nelson said."

    WIPP clean rooms set up for experiments

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-07-25-2175467138_x.htm

    Experiments in a supposedly permanent repository?
    DOES IT MAKE SENSE..?

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Date of link above:
    7/25/2007

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    James Conca -Forbes..shill extraordinaire.

    WIPP Is Still The Best and Only Choice For Nuclear Waste
    3/5/2014

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/03/05/wipp-is-still-the-best-and-only-choice-for-nuclear-waste/

    Lots of lies here..(to be picked at throughout the day).
    Offerings of the 'official' numbers..etc.

    Lots of pictures of the exhaust/ventilation system…drawings
    Thanks ..James.

    But, James.. the system didn't contain the fire (radiation filled) ..it isn't going to contain a nuclear 'puff'.

    Fire prompts evacuation of WIPP; six treated for smoke inhalation
    Feb 5 2014

    http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_25073084/fire-prompts-evacuation-wipp-six-treated-smoke-inhalation

    Fire spewing out all the orifices.

    PS. As far as "only choice" ..James.
    There is no safe place to store the stuff.
    Face it.

    • razzz razzz

      At Heart of the Rose's link if you were playing the drinking game, you should have been drunk half way through the article.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/03/05/wipp-is-still-the-best-and-only-choice-for-nuclear-waste/

      The article is also written in such a way that I can't determine who is coming to the conclusions and who is the expert on WIPP. One thing for sure is that there is no independent analysis available to oversee the WIPP site.

      As usual, safety takes a back seat to jobs and how important it is to hide…er, I mean to store nuclear waste.

      WIPP could store all of Fukushima, Daiichi's melted cores if they could find them like putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.

      • razzz razzz

        And another thing, the Forbes article says, "…This event was an operational issue about filling the repository, not a performance issue about how it will work for the next 250 million years. In fact, this event shows just how well the repository will work. Caving off the ceiling is what happens as the rooms collapse into themselves, followed by plastic creep which crushes all the space out as it becomes molecularly tight once again. We know this happens. We know it was going to happen. It’s just never happed so quickly, before we filled the room and got out…" Either the writer James Conca is a paid WIPP shill or a comedy writer for Saturday Night Live or a complete idiot (can you be all three at once?).

        I don't understand what fills the void after salt displaces itself but some things are just not important and best left unanswered as long as the agenda is furthered.

        • AirSepTech AirSepTech

          I think you know what fills the void. Louisiana does.

          I see a nice little saltwater pond, with some very odd looking fish in it.

          Maybe that is why they want a large berm around it. Give it a head start, so to speak.

  • earthsmith earthsmith

    A Kahuna speaks……."over the centuries……we have abdicated our personal responsibilities for our thoughts and actions to power hungry people who have piled mountains of 'don't do(s)' and 'thou shalt not(s)' on top of what where originally a few simple sentences. That is what made these more complicated complexes possible. But they can still be removed by going into the silence where the subconscious can be dealt with directly without interference."

  • good analysis of what it means to say WIPP is good for 10,000 years.

    http://www.miningwatch.ca/sites/www.miningwatch.ca/files/Kuyek-theory%20and%20Practice%20final%20(July%202011)-1.pdf

    Can anyone say BOGUS? CONJOB? DECEPTION?

  • Sol Man

    Run, run for your life! Banana bombs!

  • Nick

    WIPP's timing before the 3rd anniversary of the Fukushima F up is perfect.

    What more evidence DOEs the world need to realize how we have soiled our nest (earth) with the nuclear hypocrisy?

    Obviously warmongers will still make bombs and nuclear engineers will still build nuclear power plants.

    But the seeds of doubt have been planted.

    Expect the fruition soon.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Earthquakes never happen..yet in 2012..there was one basically under their feet.

    http://www.homefacts.com/earthquakes/New-Mexico/Eddy-County/Malaga/pde201203181057224305.html

    Pretty interesting…

      • Shaker1

        OT, but I'll be short…

        Heard a plug this morning on the local independent radio station this morning, KBOO in Portland, OR, for A Green Road Blog. Volunteer news and editorial shows that I wish could be a bit more aware and critical of language content sometimes, but, hey, anything to help the curious, huh? They are just concerned volunteers…People are talking about it.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Brilliant!..(sarc)..man-made geological disturbance.
    Fracking near a facility.. in which they have filled with
    nuclear waste.
    Over-filled.

    http://www.nuclearactive.org/hotwaste_factsheet_2012.pdf

    They have had multiple structural failures..who know the nuclear material in the other panels..as someone stated here.."corrosion' goes on and on.
    Who knows what kind of seepage is coming from these areas?
    Who knows if there is water seepage?

    Bet there is…

    PS.This is from the Conca link.

    "We know this happens. We know it was going to happen. It’s just never happed so quickly, before we filled the room and got out."

    This implies they don't have control on the process.
    (As if it really works..)
    So much for the safety of the workers at WIPP.
    Run!!..

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Typo's abound..
    OT..sorta..

    Anger may be bad for us – but on the other hand it has its uses

    News that anger makes you five time more likely to have a heart attack may be a worry, but without it we lose our political instinct.
    March 4 2014

    "The genuine health concerns need to be balanced with an avoidance of coming to see anger, upset and overt concern as psychological failings. The postmodern, corporate-friendly suspicion of grand political narratives is already keen enough to paint the campaigner, the activist full of passion, as an oddball.

    Perhaps what we need here is some subtlety. We need to avoid the blunt and clumsy condemnation of outrage, recognising its value as a seed of social change, while seeing the futility of pointless shouting at pedestrians from our cars. Perhaps, taking a slight lead from the complex psychological typologies of many forms of Buddhist thought, we don't need to prevent our rage but improve the quality of our outrage. Not less anger: better anger."

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/04/anger-bad-for-health-has-uses

    It's hard.. when the interaction..is life and death.

    • GQR2

      HOTR just a little bit more OT 😉 – though response to WIPP and other Nuclear Catastrophes and finding out just how awful and shoddy and reckless the work has always been is sorta on topic.
      Anyway i think big pharma has a lot to do with people losing their social instincts. Now its ..do you have a black cloud over you? take this pill.
      Its basically saying don't feel,dont think,don't ever be distressed or sad. And that is not human. Its cyborg robotic. Just follow the memes,watch fashion,what's the next bigger better faster thing. Not critical evaluation whatsoever is expected of the individual,hey that's why we have zeee experts.

      • GQR2

        worse still is the strong strong suspicion that teaching to the test in schools does not teach the necessary critical thinking skills any human needs to have a free life and potentially contribute great good(yeah the idea is to contribute good to the society as whole,through diversity not conformity)

        • Homolumina Homolumina

          What do you think about this GQR2 ?
          Sudbury schools are based on:
          The educational belief that children are extremely good at (and therefore don't need to be taught) the main behaviours needed by adults, such as creativity, imagination, alertness, curiosity, thoughtfulness, responsibility and judgement. What children lack is experience, which can be gained if adults guide students in open ways.
          The sociopolitical belief that having full democratic rights in childhood is the best way to become an adult who is comfortable functioning within a democracy.
          "The fundamental premises of the school are simple: that all people are curious by nature; that the most efficient, long-lasting, and profound learning takes place when started and pursued by the learner; that all people are creative if they are allowed to develop their unique talents; that age-mixing among students promotes growth in all members of the group; and that freedom is essential to the development of personal responsibility.

      • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

        Yes, psych meds give the illusion for a while that the person is doing better. But at a big price. I think it is probably the case that it drops the intelligence as well as muting the emotional and feeling aspect.
        The Soviet Union pioneered using drugs to combat political dissent. The USA is now using mental illness similarly. See the website–Mad in America.
        Also fluoridated water is effecting intelligence. Harvard study.

    • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

      Anger is energy, fuel. Instead of the typical expression one can refine it into a directed activity such as research on the topic of indignation. For example, the electrical grid in the USA is very vulnerable. For only a few billion dollars (amounts regularly spent on "humanitarian interventions") this system could be protected. Where is Congress? I believe the reactors here have only a week backup of diesel fuel for generators. Fairly stupid planning.

      • you are correct, the chance of a Carrington that knock out the USSA grid is about 1% to 3% per year at this time, however, with the very weird workings of the sun / sunspot cycle of late, the odds could be higher. This would send 100 nuke plants into meltddown….game over.

        But for around $2B we can harden the grid.

        They hand $2B through QE to their banker butt buddies every 16 hours. But we can mitigate our biggest extinction chance for the same money, and no one is acting.

        Irresponsible idiots, who are chanting the global warming mantra because it support their wealth transfer cap and trade BS and supports the nuke cartel / complex.

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          Stock, sorry to disagree.

          I think we are looking at a 30% to 60% chance for a "Carrington Event" over the next four solar cycles or over/about the next 50 years. 🙁

          Of course, by then, we may have ourselves four more Nuclear Core Meltdown Events to deal with within the next 50 years! 🙁

          What all this means is, that unless we stop this Nuclear Technology in it's tracks right now after this last 3+ Fukushima, Japan Event, or our days are numbered and we and all our children will all be screwed in the near future! 🙁

          This is not progress.. 🙁

        • flatsville

          Spaceweather.com provides solar flare alerts. Sign up for free email alerts.

          Strongest CME recently was a X class 4.9 glancing blow.

          30 min. warning sounds way short unless the bigger X class flares come in really fast.

    • Homolumina Homolumina

      Thank you gentle Heart – of the Rose

  • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

    Lies are the medium of power. Psychopaths have demonstrated an amazing talent for fabrication. No one obfuscates like a psychopath. (Good bumper sticker.)
    Government is all about power, coercive power. Hence, psychopaths make the best heads of government.
    All governments are effectively oligarchic. There are no Utopic ones around. If conditions were ever utopic, there would be no need for government. Democracy is probably the worst form of government because it lies about who holds power–and that is rarely the people. Sovereignty of the people was a brilliant deception.
    Note the liars in your life. These are the folks pursuing power even if only in small ways. Kids admire power as well as sweets. Abused kids become obsessed with it. Behind every great psychopath is an abused past. But the abuse may be subtle. Mental rather than physical. America has become a fertile soil for growing psychopaths or sociopaths with its shattered homes. And rotten educational systems. PC is a form of tyranny. And a great deal more could be written about this subject.

    • Homolumina Homolumina

      Hey Captain, Pushkin's eyes see deep, smiles, right through all the BS, to the core of things, I love the picture !

      • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

        Thanks. I may have to put Pushkin on a diet as he is starting to bulge. He was a lost cat until I adopted him. He keeps Beckett my old dog busy! A friend recently told me that cats see through their eyes–have nerves that register sound. We still have one mouse left. He comes up inside the gas stove and will crawl into unlidded pans! I will pass your nice remarks on to him later.

  • Nick

    WIPP was supposed to automatically seal it's nasty goodies away from the biosphere as the salt plasticity closed in on itself.

    I am curious just how "safe" salt cavern storage really is.

    In this case, the ceiling went wooommpfff. And the canisters went poof!

    Guess we had better come up with another waste isolation plan.

    I vote for a suppository directly underneath The Capitol in DC.

    Cause that's where we need to stick it!

  • GQR2

    Edward Teller – the real life Dr.Strangelove.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfiSERuroGE

    more about WIPP,
    i can't find the retro one that talks about WIPP and has an Intro by Edward Teller. He talks about wanting to see what the material does…..in this medium..that being wet salt. Some good good soul posted it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDgBUwhUAVE

    thank you heart. Thank you everybody for such thoughtful conversation. 🙂

  • GQR2

    Teller was a paperclipper. no doubt.

    • SadieDog

      The DOE will host a town hall meeting at 5:30 p.m. Thursday, March 6, at the Walter Gerrells Performing Arts Center. Community members and interested stakeholders are invited. Media is also welcome, but questions will not be taken from reporters until a news conference call is held that same evening at 7:30 p.m.

      Rep. Pearce will hold a town hall meeting Friday afternoon, March 7, in Carlsbad to listen to concerns local residents have regarding WIPP. According to a press release, federal, state and local officials have been invited to help answer questions. It will be held at the Leo Sweet Center at 4 p.m.

      The U.S. Nuclear Waste Technical Review Board will hold a public meeting at the Marriott Hotel in Albuquerque  on March 19 to discuss research and development on using salt to dispose of high-level radioactive waste and spent nuclear fuel.

  • GQR2

    Here is a huge batch of WIPP legislative minutes,reports,updates from various agencies. Don't miss the 7th one down. apologizes could not for the life of me get the adobe link/pdf into seperate links.

    http://www.nmlegis.gov/lcs/search_results.aspx?cx=004952792396984232605%3Axa60xno1f2c&cof=FORID%3A11&q=carlsbad&sa=Go!

  • ftlt

    The idea there is a Federal Government capable of responding truthfully to the people is an anachronism.

    We have no governance that is not bought and paid for any longer.

    The USA government over the last 40 years along with most of the governments on earth have been hijacked. We now are a puppet state.

  • CaptD CaptD

    Perhaps what we need is a petition that demands the Government deploy independent inspectors which include at leat two civilians (chosen off a listing of trained expert applicants) for any radiation leak.

    This would provide some non-government clarity as to what exactly is going on; as it is now we are as many mentioned above, just being treated like children who have no comprehension of what is actually going on and therefore have no idea of what is going on.

    Just say N☢ to mankinds' Nuclear pollution – CaptD

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