Worse than a ‘melt through’ – a ‘melt out’? — See Graphic

Published: July 9th, 2011 at 5:27 pm ET
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Melt-out “nuclear fuel” struck fear in the groundwater! — the worst excess of the melt through — TEPCO do not hide this possibility!, Gendai, July 8, 2011:

Google Translation

[...] Unimaginable “terrible reality”, but might be going on deep inside the reactor building basement —.

International Atomic Energy Agency released on July 6 (IAEA) report to the government in Unit 1 to 3 “through” molten acknowledged that possibility. This is the core melt (melt down), the nuclear fuel, penetrate the reactor pressure vessel, they pouring outside containment to further “melt-through” but that the state (see right).

But “at the Fukushima Daiichi more desperate situation,” you said, is Assistant Professor Hiroaki Koide of Kyoto University Reactor.

“The melt-lump of uranium is the fuel melted, defeating even the bottom of the containment, and I believe that it is not at that Meri込N on the ground melted the concrete beneath the reactor building. Part of the core of nuclear fuel soluble exceed the 2800 ℃ (can not be measured because the current temperature of the high radiation dose.) weight of the melt is also 100t. steel pressure vessel and containment would melt at about 1500 ℃ from the melt should have fallen on the floor of the reactor building basement. some of which eroded the floor of the basement, some would have melted the contaminated water to flow to the surrounding walls”

こ れ は fuel ga nuclear reactor building の external に direct leakage れ out て, Zhou 囲 に high concentration の radioactive を spread ki scattered ら す “メ Hikaru Suites ア ウ Suites” と call ば れ ru most 悪 の state da. Koide’s が 続 け ru.

“If you hit the groundwater melt, then spread of radioactive material be cooled circulating some will not prevent you can not. As long as stopping the flow of groundwater, the sea around is to continue being contaminated. To prevent pollution Gutameniha, Shikanai would make the sides of the shield wall of the reactor building basement. The contaminated soil and the melt is cut off contact with groundwater, ”

Also look to the structure of a nuclear reactor melt-out potential is happening is high. The explanation is that, it was a design engineer who Masashi Goto containment vessel Toshiba original.

“The thickness of the steel pressure vessel also has a few cm enough. The thickness of the containment, while only 20 ~ 30mm. Pressure vessel also is has been designed to withstand the pressure 70 stores The pressure vessel is set 4. you get enough fuel to leak if the pressure vessel melt, containment not stand a chance. including the reactor building basement concrete wall covered let alone a mere super-hot melt is not to avoid.

Containment pressure vessel can be the first place, not being done on the assumption that the core melt. Design has already been compromised. Any action be taken to melt down, so penetrate the containment vessel pressure from the melt of the floor would melt out of the reactor building basement is a matter of time ”

Radioactive material scattered by melt-out, and something more deadly. Some of the contaminated water which overflowed from the underground to the surface, such as iodine and cesium in two years in 08 half-life of radioactive material containing a lot of light at the top of the water reservoir and easy. The leaking from underground, however, it becomes radioactive material such as plutonium, strontium and 40,000,002 for the year of the half-life of 29 years. Plutonium, in particular, continues to destroy the internal organs into humans over 50 years, “radioactive material” worst called. Institute of Applied professor at Chubu University, said Mr. Kunihiko Takeda yuan Cabinet Chair Atomic Energy Commission.

TEPCO, what are considered to be in the current situation and how the molten nuclear fuel. TEPCO has acknowledged that the meltdown, the answer was not persuasive.

“Analysis is now evaluated as a fall in the bottom of the pressure vessel to melt the fuel No. 1. Has now been cooled to a stable priming situation leads to the release of radioactive material for large future happen I think not. No. 2, No. 3 well, moving forward with a similar analysis. For specific conditions in the reactor is not known. in that hole in the containment has pointed out that for Also, we will report on current research while promoting “(Public Relations Department)

In short, nuclear fuel is “being cool” stable but every claim to melt through, the possibility of melt-out, not knowing any more details “under investigation,” he say. TEPCO Moreover, while answering it, is considering the construction of the shield wall extending deep underground beneath the reactor building.

“We have started to design. To shield contaminated groundwater, and we are planning to build” (ibid).

As mentioned earlier, Koide said, “to prevent the outflow of the groundwater hit the nuclear fuel only to make a shield wall” has been warned. Mentioned in his mouth trying for the worst might be happening but are not aware of the possibility of TEPCO will melt out in motion measures that have begun or not. Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant works in reveals that one of the employees of subcontractors. [...]

h/t Risabee

Published: July 9th, 2011 at 5:27 pm ET
By
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159 comments

Related Posts

  1. Gov’t report suggests situation “far worse” than meltdown — It “is the worst possibility in a nuclear accident” June 8, 2011
  2. More serious than a meltdown — Japan Gov’t now raising possibility that fuel had a “melt through” at all 3 reactors June 7, 2011
  3. Fukushima Investigation: “Within one day complete meltdown and melt through occurred” — “There is no way that gov’t did not know this” (VIDEO) April 20, 2012
  4. Report: Gov’t paper shows melt-out at Fukushima was predicted on day of quake September 8, 2011
  5. Time.com: China Syndrome “might just have happened at Fukushima” — Molten fuel may have “melted through everything into the earth” May 16, 2011

159 comments to Worse than a ‘melt through’ – a ‘melt out’? — See Graphic

  • ocifferdave

    I wish we were talking about M&Ms, not N&Ns (Nukes and Nuggets).


    Report comment

  • ZombiePlanet ZombiePlanet

    Nuclear power. The gift that keeps on giving.

    What a mess.


    Report comment

    • I have never seen such a huge amount of hotspots covering the Japanese Isles. More major earthquakes are in the offing. See
      http://predictingquakes.blogspot.com/
      And with this witch’s brew going on forever, its eternal chaos for the planet.
      So the solution is to stop nukes forever and start mothballing them now in the most effective manner possible– all of you IAEA, WANO etc all nations come together now and shut them down immediately. We can all pedal our power to the grid. It means reversing the energy meters by stationary bicycling, reducing your beautiful paunches, keeping fit and in the process enjoying 700- 1400 GW-gigawatts of isothermal electricity and recycling our excreta- instead of 350 GW of nukes as of now. And we can reproduce nonclonally. And there are the trees- God created them instead of dams the slaves of gravity!
      See http://practicethevedas.blogspot.com/ and all the articles therein.
      Production consumption and return is the mantra of normal living after assuring security of all life and of the planet- thats the bottom line or perish. Thats because modern civilisation with its maximisation of sales at all costs is so destructive in its cumulative synergistic effects that its a weapon of mass destruction in live use forever like Fuku is turning out to be and Missourie floods with nukes helplessly staring at them and los alamos at a total loss of brains!


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  • Sickputer

    So now they fear the “unimaginable terrible reality” of the second new term the NRC said could never happen…melt-through and now melt-out.

    Tacoma…I knew when you wrote about it two months ago TEPCO would eventually quake in their boots…the fear must be palpable at the plant site manager meetings and in TEPCO Tokyo offices…gut-wrenching fear of the reality they have unleashed a Gozilla monster that will destroy their island. Nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.

    Move along now…nothing to see here! Not yet…but soon…


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  • moonkai

    mmmm …. I did not understand a thing! I am not the only one! Can someone please translate this in English ? ;)


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  • icone

    I think this states what we’ve all pretty much known for a while, but perhaps the real story is inching out a little more everyday… “officially” at least.

    I’d also love to see a better translation (EX/SKF??), and I was wondering where this IAEA report is, I couldn’t find anything on their site.


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    • icone

      By the way anyone notice that the Tepco graph hasn’t been updated since Unit 1 hit 266 SV/hr? Last time this happened they had to change the graph as the data went off the chart.
      Sputtering and fizzling corium.


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    • arclight arclight

      4th paragraph should read more likr this
      “It leaks out directly to the outside of the reactor building of nuclear fuel, radioactive materials spread around very high levels of “melt out” It’s called the worst condition. Mr. Koide continued.”


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  • alasanon

    wow, they really let that genie out of the bottle!


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  • arclight arclight

    nicest article i could find if for all the wrong reasons!
    “Priest Sokyu Genyu,玄侑宗久 born 1956
    (We saw him on TV the other day. Sookyuu Genyuu)
    quote
    Japan priest speaks out on spiritual toll of nuclear crisis
    In Japan, where nature is believed to cleanse spirits, how do people cope when treasured mountains and oceans are tainted by leaks of radiation from a nuclear power plant?
    Sokyu Genyu, a Buddhist priest from a temple just 45 km (28 miles) west of the damaged Fukushima Daiichi plant in northeast Japan, is drawing attention to the less visible scars from the world’s worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl in 1986.

    His small town of Miharu has welcomed thousands of residents who have evacuated from around the nuclear plant, still leaking radiation after being struck by the tsunami.
    Damage to the environment has been especially hard on local communities, where farmers and fishermen have traditionally associated nature with god, building shrines to pray for rich harvests and to ward off accidents at sea, Genyu said.
    … “Mountains and oceans have purified us but now those mountains and oceans are contaminated,” he said. “We could see the very foundation for our religious beliefs break down, because it is no longer able to purify us.”

    “Why do we make things that ignore nature’s cycles, why do we have summer vegetables in the winter?” he asked. Funerals should not have to stick to the custom of using chrysanthemums all-year round if that meant saving energy to grow them.” from this link
    http://japan-afterthebigearthquake.blogspot.com/search/label/diary


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    • NoVictimNoFraudNoCrime

      Sokyu Genyu, a Buddhist priest from a temple just 45 km (28 miles) west of the damaged Fukushima Daiichi plant in northeast Japan, is drawing attention to the less visible scars from the world’s worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl in 1986.

      I think it’s time to take that Chernobyl qualifier off and leave it at the world’s worst nuclear disaster.


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  • mikael

    So finaly after all this time, and time is becomed something that has to be considered, because the people of Japan is running out of it.

    Japan better start to seriously consider evac of teritories that covers moust of the main island of Japan and that incl Tokyo, and they know it(remeber the yellow rain).
    The problem is that this is out of controll in anysense, they can just observe it.
    And I know that the only way of reatching the core, is to get under it, and then go(drill) them self up against it.
    They then have to contain everything, because everything is going to be severly radioactiv, and its probably going to be a suicide mission(people and eqipment).
    And they do have that equipment, so use it(tunnel drilling rigs)remot cont. or not.
    Everything on topp(reac. buld) will just be like a dam, its working up to a certain point, beyound that, its useless. It will eventualy become highly radioactiv and become a source that is untoutschable. A dead end.

    The contaminating process will acelerate and the scope will increase, and moust of is will afect wather systems under the fuk.plant. And we have a potential of 3 imidiate and several pools and 2 others in a longer term, so the perfect storm is coming.
    And this is our world absolut biggest problem ever, and its drowned in trivialitys and bullshitt.
    Ever Japanes must start to realise that they are damaging you(radioactiv meat, tea, fish and so on), and its does not even stop at that, it will be a danger for people and all living for aeons(and thats fu.. close to forever). They have lied and know you know, to stay ignorant from now on will damage people and their ofsprings, even the unborn is already damaged.

    What ever “numbers” they display, must be werifyed independently, the gov. and TEPCO is to be considered criminals and have absolut no credibility, non at all.
    They have been lying constantly for the hole periode, and continue to this present moment.

    wake up.

    “The day we see the truth and cease to speak is the day we begin to die”
    — Martin Luther King Jr.


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    • CB CB

      Copy and paste from you mikael;
      What ever “numbers” they display, must be werifyed independently, the gov. and TEPCO is to be considered criminals and have absolut no credibility, non at all.
      They have been lying constantly for the hole periode, and continue to this present moment.

      wake up.
      I’m mad as hell to.


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    • girlygrrll

      An immediate evacuation would have made sense. But now…. where the heck do you relocate a population so “infected” with radiation?


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      • arclight arclight

        the longer this goes on the greater the need for evacuation for children…i believe in belarus children are sent away from the contaminated zones they live in to minimze the risk…this allows the contaminants to leech out and reduce or reverse the bioaccummulation of radinucleids…so if you takr prople away from contaminated zones there accumulated bose reduces, especially with the use of “cleansers like boron and apple pectin vitamins etc…


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  • westcoastgirl westcoastgirl

    So waht does this mean in relation to tacomagroove’s speculations? Is there a possibility of some sort of explosion or geyser spewing radiation into the air, or will it just cause massive contamination of the groundwater?

    It’s a little hard to interpret the interpretation…


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    • Just throw all you said on the wall, most all of it will stick and then some !


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    • Cataclysmic Cataclysmic

      I too am curious… without being a nuclear professional, but understanding we don’t put a hot glass into the cold freezer, without breakage… so, we can see they are pouring cold water on/over this hot mess… so, what difference will there be when the hot mess reaches the cold water? Certainly, we understand and would like the steam spewing to stop, but is dumping cold water on it keeping some “coolness” in the area to avert the more extreme heat colliding with the cold ground water and a more violent explosion? Not sure if anyone can understand what I am asking, but it seems like if there is going to be an explosion… wouldn’t the cold water that was being put on top do the same thing as the hot running into the cold below? ie..explode.


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      • I will be writing more very very soon


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      • Hopefully it will not drop into a cold stream but the surrounding heat will pre-warm and heat the area including the water, I am hoping there is a lot of mud around it, the steam will bubble and burp it’s way to the surface via shortest route as the curium has path-ed out going down !


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      • maaa

        From what I’ve read, water helps the molten fuel to reach criticality by bouncing the neutrons back to hit other uranium atoms thus setting off a continuous fission. I think the amount of water they pour on it will vapourise immediately so it wouldn’t wrap around the fuel to set off an explosion.


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        • They also have been adding Boron to water and it reduces the chance of re-critical by preventing the neutrons back to hit other uranium atoms, there was an announcement that in a last week they expected the Boron to be reduced to critical levels, so they must have added more, before or after attempts to add liquid nitrogen into the critical areas !


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    • It means that they were obviously not speculations.


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      • Darth

        Are you saying you had an inside source?


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        • Dear darth…

          Within 2-3 weeks.
          Tepco will forever know emmy.

          I promise, I won’t let you down…

          That’s all I can say.


          Report comment

          • StPaulScout StPaulScout

            Rip em a new ass hole if you can….


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          • WindorSolarPlease

            I believe in the US there will be no place to hide (unless you have an under ground shelter) I think the jet stream, will bring it all in.

            In Japan, will they have any area’s that is safe, until it makes it full circle again?


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          • irradiated californian

            wasn’t it you who claimed that fukushima would have a big explosion in late june and that the plant would be evacuated and all the other nuke plants would have the same thing happen. you said we had 30 days or say in mid may, so your time frames for your predictions seem a little off, eh? i guess you asked for an extension and your fellow doomers here have allowed it and will believe you know something we don’t. so be it, can’t change anyone’s mind, but taco, for as much as you know, you know very little with being practical, just thought you should know. when someone challenges what you have to say, all you do is throw out big words and intimidate them, making it seem as if you know what you are saying, throwing out random numbers and random mathematical equations, i guess you get to feed your friends here with fear, because they believe all that you say.


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          • Steven Steven

            “Tepco will forever know emmy”

            Best you look up the meaning of the word ‘hubris’… it’s kind of what caused this mess in the first place, so you may want to rethink your approach.


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      • Hey Boris Karloff, lighten up, your scar-en everyone, Sure it’s bad, but we will see much of it happen !~

        : P


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    • It is has/is been doing the following !
      “spewing radiation into the air, or will it just cause massive contamination of the groundwater”


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  • Misitu

    Now they have admitted that the hot radioactive stuff is out of the bottle and sunk/sinking into the subsoil basically all bets are off except the one that says radiation will be omitted from below the damaged reactor shells for a VERY long time.

    There could be explosions but that would be spectacular. Just as bad are the continuing emissions recognisable only by their signatures on monitoring instruments.

    The colossal inertia of honourable Japanese response is matched only by the colossal deception of dishonourable non Japanese response.

    Translation: Japanese do nothing, everyone else say nothing.

    Try to avoid the panic?


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  • Darth

    Arnie Gundersen figured something like this must have happened when highly radioactive water was found in R5 & R6 some months ago. A melt-out would have happened that fast.

    Perhaps this explains the steam “gusher” seen coming from the basement in R1.


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  • Koyaanisqatsi! The Hopi prophets nailed it …

    It’s not that the mountains cannot purify, it’s that “Man” defiles. The gods of the mountains and the seas have had their mouths stopped up with plutonium. Who has been force-fed plutonium cannot bless, not even a god.


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  • HardLeft

    Koide is a pretty reliable source. Found this link which gives a brief bio of his work.

    http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~hasegawa/Papers/Koide.html

    Anyone know how to get this article to EX-SKF? I really would like to see a good translation. Thanks… –HL


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  • Prussian Blue – Any Good for Low-dose Radiation?

    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110709p2a00m0na024000c.html

    Experts warn that drug’s benefits unproven for low-dose radiation dosages

    Prussian blue, sold as a medical product in Japan and elsewhere. (Mainichi)
    The government is warning people to only take radiation medicine as prescribed by doctors, saying that the pigment Prussian blue, meant to be taken after heavy doses of radioactive cesium, is not known to have an effect on low-dose radiation and might even cause side effects such as irregular heartbeat.

    The pigment Prussian blue, which is also used in paints, was found to encourage the ejection of cesium-137 when it was used on 46 people exposed to the isotope in an incident in Brazil in 1987. It was found to be particular effective on adults. However, almost no other data on Prussian blue’s medical use exists. A German pharmaceutical company put the pigment into capsule form and began selling it in 1997 under the name Radiogardase.

    Prussian blue is said to cut down the length of time that cesium-137 stays in the human body by two thirds, and the World Health Organization has recommended that all countries keep stocks on hand. It was approved for sale in Japan in October last year. Possible side effects are feared such as constipation and potassium deficiency in the blood, which can lead to irregular heartbeat.

    ….


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  • “Shikanai would make the sides of the shield wall of the reactor building basement. The contaminated soil and the melt is cut off contact with groundwater, ”
    Has anyone seen the size of this place ?
    these dams with shielding, are they going to be built under the reactor molted masses as well, how does one keep the water from being further polluted without going under the masses and sealing that as well ? Putting a bottom in the BOWL !
    The sandstone under these plants are near liquefied from quakes and endless streams of water, unsafe for tunneling or digging, ever dig a hole at the beach the amounts of sand rushing back into the hole and how that would affect the other structures around the dig spots ?
    All this was discussed months ago !!!


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    • kx kx

      unfortunately it was discussed repeatedly and exhaustively months ago like you said. maybe some1 should invite tepco guys to enenews


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      • I know that X-37 the Air Force Secret Craft has can image this place and figure to the millimeter how far down the curium is ! It hovered over the Horizon site (Macondo Well)for months before it came down to go up again in March this year!


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      • Tepco guys in a sense are on enenews.
        National intelligence, monitors all communications.

        They are fully aware of every projection of the events to come. Including my own…

        I should note that:
        The lid being held so tightly shut only shows how bad a reading the scope reads.

        An indication that their own results are estimated to be just as equally damaging if not, far worse than my own;

        All the while we the spectators should be bearing in mind that the science supports an event frighteningly similar. to my own conclusion…

        I didn’t exactly coin the term china syndrome.

        I merely exposed the concept term, forthright.
        Something the Japanese have failed to disclose to this day.

        I would also note that science is a combination of the greatest speculative assertions, brought forth by the basic fundamental laws of physics.

        Therefore I wouldn’t rule out a catastrophic outcome of events; in the respects to the integrity of the situation…

        For paying no acknowledgement to the dangers of the situation, is essentially how tepco got its self into the predicament in the first place.

        I’ve been called crazy for months, But the way that the Japanese have handled this crisis since day one; Strikes me as insane.

        Food for thought.


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  • Should have built in a drop room under each reactor with 2 tunnels going to each drop room in case of the impossible happened, then they would have a way to catch and deal with in a pre-described fashion !
    (How much more would that little detail of saving grace would have cost them ? “drop room under each reactor with 2 tunnels” )


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    • Steven Steven

      TEPCO status report: ‘Installed drop rooms under each reactor with 2 access tunnels. Lined drop rooms with unobtanium. Corium contained.’


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      • Lead lined, lead balls for Curium to melt into, Boron and piping to spray more Boron, false floor with tank under to have liquid nitrogen fill if and when needed and throw in the frigging kitchen sink if needed !


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        • All the kitchen sinks in the world.

          General Beringer: Goddammit, I’d piss on a spark plug if I thought it’d do any good! (WarGames, 1983)


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          • Stephen Falken: The whole point was to find a way to practice nuclear war without destroying ourselves. To get the computers to learn from mistakes we couldn’t afford to make. Except, I never could get Joshua to learn the most important lesson.
            David Lightman: What’s that?
            Stephen Falken: Futility. That there’s a time when you should just give up.
            Jennifer: What kind of a lesson is that?
            Stephen Falken: Did you ever play tic-tac-toe?
            Jennifer: Yeah, of course.
            Stephen Falken: But you don’t anymore.
            Jennifer: No.
            Stephen Falken: Why?
            Jennifer: Because it’s a boring game. It’s always a tie.
            Stephen Falken: Exactly. There’s no way to win. The game itself is pointless! But back at the war room, they believe you can win a nuclear war. That there can be “acceptable losses.”

            (WarGames, 1983)


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  • Ariana

    What is the difference between this Fukushima “melt-out” and the scenario they were concerned about at Chernobyl? In the “Battle for Chernobyl” film, they talked about having to send divers down into the water below the reactor because if the corium hit that water, it would cause a catastrophic explosion? If you know, please explain :)


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    • “if the curium hit that water”
      If I recall, they were more concerned as to the pollution of the waters in vast areas because of this and continued radiation !
      They did dig a tunnel to a room near where the elephants foot (curium) was and photograph it ! Some say liquid nitrogen was put in the pool under it made to hold it to help to cool while others say none was ever needed !There are 4 part documentary’s on this on UTUBE !
      Worth the time !


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      • theypoisonus

        xdrfox

        I watched the movie/doc. It was going to leak into a very large aquifer.


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        • Yes, Thanks, I remembered it was critical to stop it from reaching for saving the water supply, not an explosion !

          aquifer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer


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          • tell it to me gently doc…
            How long have I got…

            Wiki: china Syndrome…

            I’d place my bet on the projections, that were supported by world renowned nuclear physicist’s.


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          • World renowned nuclear physicist’s help get us to this calamity !


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          • westcoastgirl westcoastgirl

            I remember something about trying to stop a possible second explosion in the Battle for Chernobyl documentary…it said it would have been extremely dangerous. But it didn’t say how soon that was after the first one.

            It’s been 4 months since the initial meltdown…is an explosion risk over, or is it still possible? I have wondered that for a while.

            Although there have definitely been a lot of horrific-looking steam events at the plant so far, and ground water contamination sounds really bad, too, I still imagine that a nuclear explosion would be the worst-case scenario….


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          • americancommntr

            That’s contrary to what the Russians said in the documentary. Their physicists said there was potential for a 3 to 5 megaton explosion. It was unclear if it would have been just due to steam, or if somehow it would have been a fission explosion. Either way, that big of one would have blown up all 4 reactors at the plant, and their contents, including any spent fuel lying around in pools, within probably a couple miles, in my estimation. If it was fission, all that would have mixed with soil, concrete, etc., in the mushroom cloud, making it worse. If just steam, it would have been a volcanic size dirty bomb.


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  • CB CB

    FIRE AT DULCE: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/fire-agua-dulce.html
    I want to provide information about the Dulce Canyon facility. To go back to its origins, at the end of World War II, the facilities at Los Alamos were above-ground. Once it became clear that an Allied vs. Soviet conflict was developing at the end of the war, instead of winding down the project, efforts were made to expand the associated facilities for what appeared to be, and was, a protracted “conflict other than war,” as the military classified it.
    That was the origin of the Dulce Canyon facility. There was a need for a larger, safer, and more covert location to deal with how to take the raw nuclear material from Oak Ridge, and prepare it for use as a nuclear warhead. That was the purpose of Dulce Canyon facility then, and the purpose it has served since.


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  • CB CB

    FIRE AT DULCE: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/fire-agua-dulce.html
    I want to provide information about the Dulce Canyon facility. To go back to its origins, at the end of World War II, the facilities at Los Alamos were above-ground. Once it became clear that an Allied vs. Soviet conflict was developing at the end of the war, instead of winding down the project, efforts were made to expand the associated facilities for what appeared to be, and was, a protracted “conflict other than war,” as the military classified it.
    That was the origin of the Dulce Canyon facility. There was a need for a larger, safer, and more covert location to deal with how to take the raw nuclear material from Oak Ridge, and prepare it for use as a nuclear warhead. That was the purpose of Dulce Canyon facility then, and the purpose it has served since.

    http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=829
    Live Radio


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  • StPaulScout StPaulScout

    anyone out there able to translate from Japanese into English? The Google shit is just giberish to me.


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  • AkDave AkDave

    Just when you think things are slowing down this hits… Dang! better keep stocking up I guess! best is yet to come.


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    • ocifferdave

      I have a good start on canned Alaska Salmon from a cheap store in Oregon called Grocery Outlet. I sure wish I had had a Grocery Outlet in Alaska!


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  • jump-ball

    EQ window coming to life: usgs shows 7.0 off Honshu.

    New thread material…


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  • tony wilson

    just when you thought we had enough bad shit in the air,water and land.
    comes the new repositioned nasa.
    no longer interested or able to go to the moon never mind mars.
    but is now part of the 2 leg animal control project.
    using rockets to spray lithium into the ionosphere.
    but do not worry you will not see it.

    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/news/pfaffLA.html


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    • HardLeft

      Rockets spraying lithium into the ionosphere?! That’s an antiquated drug used for psychiatric patients! That’s just insane! That crap causes tardive dyskinesia! What’s the payload? How many gallons or tons?

      I checked that link, because I couldn’t believe what you were saying was real. Apparently, it is, though the reason for the experiment just sounds like total gibberish.

      I mean, seriously, what’s next? Let’s go bomb the asteroid Ceres with Prozac! Let’s send a starships full of Xanax into the oort cloud, and seed the comets with tranquilizers!

      What happened to the NASA I remember?

      I want a drink! I want to go home! I want my mommy!

      Okay, sorry. That was a little shrill. I’m okay now. Sort of.


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  • theypoisonus

    The schit still hasn’t hit the fan as bad as it’s going to when good ole Brown Star passes us by this fall.

    I’ve had a gut feeling since early on that this thing was going to melt through. This is why I saw no reason for the dam dome. It’s not melting up, sure stuff is coming up at times, but I have always been more worried about finding out what was going on below.
    After watching Chernobly doc, it just made it clear that they had no way to address the ‘below’ problem.

    As stated earlier by xdrfox, there isn’t any real ground under there. It’s a bloody island.

    Anybody got this little tool and know how to use it?
    http://www.google.com/earth/index.html
    Google Earth Six.


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  • beamofthewave

    I have sent my daughter to Georgia from Oregon. Should I leave her there? Would she be safer there? She wants to come back for her friends and school.


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    • theypoisonus

      Don’t actually know. Georgia is a strange place,(people) I live s. of there in N. Fl. and it’s really strange here, but at least we aren’t getting the bad chit like ya’ll are and Missouri for some strange reason.

      I’m sure she is lonely for friends and fam, but we are talking about health and possible exposure here.
      I can’t tell you what decision to make, but think about it and read alot.


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    • lokay5

      I don’t blame her for wanting to come home, poor kid.

      I live in Merlin, Oregon and when it’s really quiet here, I can actually hear Georgia suck……..


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    • milk and cheese milk and cheese

      It’s your decision, but I’d want my kid with me. Frankly nowhere in the USA is going to escape the damages.


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    • milk and cheese milk and cheese

      and google “Savannah River Nuclear Plant” and “Nuclear Bomb off Savannah” to see why Georgia is not really much safer than Oregon, and probably has *more* crap in the water since it also has numerous chemical plants and train shipments that occasionally leak. I used to live in Savannah and while it was a beautiful place, there was that teensy little problem with the nuclear bomb…


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  • theypoisonus

    tony,

    using rockets to spray lithium into the ionosphere. ??

    WTF are these idiots up to now? dam !!

    bait and switch just gets faster and faster. It boggles the mind. :(


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    • VanneV anne

      They don’t want people to panic. Who is to say that lithium isn’t in the chem trails as well.


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    • tony wilson

      remember the man from japan who said negativity causes cancer not radiation.
      well thanks to the heroic team at nasa we will all be if not happy, maybe a little bit numb and dumber.
      this is haarp related and also can be added to the cocktail of slow kill population control system.
      for all the tom hanks stars and stripes film bullshit.
      nasa would not exist without a load of nazi eugenics monsters running away from germany after the war.
      so spraying of unknown chemicals in the ionosphere is just a bigger experiment than they did in the death camps.


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  • leopard_colony

    I would think that you could detect some neutrons from outside the containment vessel. That would tell us whether or not the corium is critical. IIRC the boron isotope based detector is relatively immune to gamma, allowing it to work inside the reactor building. There is usually no electronics inside the probe itself, just a coax cable providing the HV bias and carrying the signal.

    If I’ve missed something please correct me.


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    • Nigwil

      The geiger tube is just gas-filled tube (about 40 mm long by 15 mm diameter, typically) with a central wire and a metal outer. A mica window at the end allows the radiation in. You put about 900 volts DC across the wire and outer can, and when some ionizing radiation hits the tube it causes the gases to ionize which shorts between the wire and the tube. Your electronics then detect the sudden voltage drop or current rise due to the short.

      So in a ‘hot’ environment you could as you say just expose the high voltage cable and the tube, while leaving the more sensitive electronics elsewhere in a hardened box. The longer the HV cable tho the lower the maximum count due to the impedance of the longer cable.

      You then either listen to the resulting ‘clicks’ on a speaker, or fit it to a counter etc to get counts per second, link it to a web server or other pretty stuff.

      After a count event the gas in the tube takes a moment to return to a non-ionized state, and so the tubes are only able to count up to a certain level (typically 50,000 to 100,000 a second) so they get to the point where they are saturated, and cant say anything useful about higher radiation levels, except “Run!”.

      I built my own on a bit of board, and had great fun keeping the HV side from shorting to anywhere within reach.


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  • Sickputer

    OK…I have spent the past 6 hours or so scouring the Net for information on subsoil at Fukushima, ground aquifers, etc…in my quest to see if I can figure out what the Japanese won’t reveal. Things I meant to look for long ago, but work and family life intervened.

    I read faster then the legendary Evelyn Woods ever wished she could read so it has been a blitzkrieg session of about 700 pages of PDF documents and another 100 or so assorted webpages. Tough hard reading for many scientific documents, some scanned whih blurring text. Glad I didn’t suffer a brain aneuryism!

    So here goes my short version of my searches:

    There is no groundwater aquifer underneath Fukushima Daiichi. The plant sits on at least a 450 feet thick layer of mudstone/sandstone which is relatively impervious to liquids. A 1988 document for a Tokyo world conference on earthquake engineering proves they have earthquake sensors that were drilled down in several places under Unit 6 and the deepest accelerometer gauge is 143 Meters into mudstone (about 450 feet). The document about the depth of the gauge is here:

    http://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/9_vol3_733.pdf

    I found quite a few web documents about the mudstone/sandstone layers under Fukushima Daiichi.

    The mudstone layer may go as deep as 800 meters and the Germans have a nice little piece on their theory of corium flow which they fairly dismiss as unlikely to get much water action and also about underground water in general for Japan (very small distribution of aquifer systems in Japan’s main island …almost all drinking water comes from rivers:

    http://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article12834475/Grundwasser-vermutlich-nicht-radioaktiv-verseucht.html Try Google Chrome for a fairly decent translation.

    They also point out as I learned elsewhere that the concrete foundation pad under the compromised reactor vessel at Unit 3 is about 15 feet thick.

    So we’re safe right? Just wait until the corium (all three) burn out in about ten years? Maybe hasten the process by pouring some minerals down the hole if they can ever get a machine capable to do that over the exit wound?

    Well, that sounds OK if we assume the corium has a vertical mind. Hmmm… so maybe it doesn’t? Maybe it is going to find a path to the sea without going straight down 2600 feet to the granite layer which would surely be a tough nut for the corium to crack.

    Remember our new TEPCO term…the melt-out. Not Melt-down, not melt-through, but melt-out. The sea is only a few yards from the reactors…one new theory is that the corium will find a path to the sea. If that happens then the steam explosion theory re-enters the playbook.

    Second theory…I like this one better because it involves Pee Wee’s Big Top…the TEPCO circus tent. Maybe the tent was not designed to keep radiation waves inside the building. Maybe it is designed to keep the monsoon rains from flooding down the open building into the exit wound hole of the escaping corium. Trapped in the mudstone, the corium is an angry beast looking for something to work with other than 2 million year old sedimentary layers. Sure, it will spew and vent, but it needs a catalyst to make it really roar. Enter tons of monsoon rain water in a highly contained top open chamber. Perhaps that makes for a steam explosion or atomic explosion that blows the whole corium load into the sky and sea. So maybe we shouldn’t sneer so much at the circus tent, but hope that it does provide whatever function the nuclear industry scientists are hoping for. They are getting advice from every top scientist in the world you can certainly bet on.

    One last thing…the plant is in dire straits regardless of whether a China Syndrome happens or not…here’s a little document from the JAIF that proves it…just check out the red sections and you know things are not looking too rosy on the Island of Good Fortune:

    http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1310188579P.pdf

    Some contradictions as always from the government sources as they say the cores for 1-3 are not cooling (“not functional”) but in another area they say they are using [Areva] processed water for the reactor cooling since June 27.

    Another item I find of interest is the 4th blue grid from the bottom where they mention radioactive debris removal and say they are using a remote-controlled machine. No guys with wheelbarrows like the hardy Russians!

    Ciao,

    SP


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    • Steven Steven

      Nice work Sicputer, much appreciated.


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    • WindorSolarPlease

      Hi Sickputer

      You not only looked into it, you studied it, and explained it very well. I think your tent theory sounds correct.

      Thank You


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    • arclight arclight

      excellent research! good theories!


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    • Fall out man!

      Thanks Sickputer,
      fascinating research, great explanation.


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    • There is still another complication because of the earthquakes caused by dams- they by friction heat up these sandstones on which the reactors are standing and melt them and phew the earthquake occurs or puts the reactors on fire – perhaps the reactor structures will catch fire. The fires that are causing the earth to be ablaze are caused also by the dams because of the mechanism of the archimedean lever effect stressing up the fulcrum area by friction. See http://earthquakescausedbydams
      So the rock melting beneath the reactors- the foundation is itself being threastened to become a liquid and then there may be catastrophic explosion.


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    • But will the corium stay in a mass or will it separate into many or thousands of pieces or even smaller parts as it makes it way through the earth to other points becoming lighter through separations gavity will not play on as much as surrounding affects of easy movement, such as water flow or sands shifting, mud flows to side to side, breaking down maybe small enough to/and taking body in other materials ?


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  • milk and cheese milk and cheese

    Thank you for the splendid detective work, sickputer. While it is good to note that the designers of these ghastly things did not build them on top of important aquifers the ‘melt out’ term is probably Tepcoese for that sideways move of the corium that you described.
    And that latest earthquake ensures that the cocktail is shaken, not stirred…


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  • Nigwil

    Good work Sickputer!

    The useful thing about water is that it has problems flowing up hill by itself. So:

    Google Earth ‘Fukishima’. Go east from the town. The current imagery of the site shows the wrecked reactor buildings. Looks like about 10:00 am. A lot of folk still drive to work there if the car parks are anything to go by!

    Using the GE Flight Sim fly around the site for a while getting a sense of the landforms. (Its a good way to do it as you tend to bump into rising ground if you’re not careful.)

    A couple of things become apparent. South of the forest south of the site are some paddys and a river. A low point. Then the land along the coast rises before falling to the plant site. The plant site for reactors 1-4 has actually been hacked out of the ridge running to the sea.

    Behind the plant site the land rises away from the coast, but not very far before it falls again into the river system, so the length of the catchment behind the plant is not that great.

    Running through the site between Reactor 1 and Reactors 5-6 to the north is a stream bed that provides another low point that stream is probably what gave rise to the original harbour there.

    Reactors 1 to 4 are thus on one higher ridge and 5 and 6 on another ridge about 500 metres north.

    Groundwater tends to run towards the coast and towards any local low points/streams. So it seems very unlikely that any groundwater connection will exist between reactors 1-4 and 5-6. And likewise unlikely that any ducting or pipes will run between these reactor blocks either. So any radioactive water found in 5-6 must have come from 5-6. So there is something sad going on there they are not telling us about.

    In relation to the corium getting into the ground water, I think that the interface between the surface soils and the mudstone will act as a surface along which the groundwater that has fallen as rain on the slope above the plant will flow. Typical groundwater flow rates are in ranges between metres and kilometres per year – not fast.

    The landform suggests this will not be a huge volume, but thats where it will be.

    The soils in the vicinity of the reactors are pretty well messed up by the construction efforts and the surfaces are sealed and the roads uphill form cutoffs for surface water flows. So not that likely that a conventional aquifer structure exists around the reactor buildings.

    The construction of the building will have interrupted this aquifer surface in unknowable ways, except that if they have dug into the mudstone for foundations etc, then groundwater will be pooling in those excavations and so there could be quite a water volume for the corium to mess with, even though the rate that groundwater gets replaced by the natural flow from upslope may be slow – depending on rainfall and the very specific features of the local catchment.

    The sea water they are pumping into the reactors is leaking through the failed containment and probably failed construction joints in mass concrete foundations disturbed by the earthquake and explosions. This will be adding to the in-ground pool, and will add to the natural flow away from the plant – mostly towards the sea.

    Rather than flowing through the ground the water will prefer to take any faster path, such as through broken ducts and pipes heading downhill. The reactors are less than 200 metres from the coastline in the harbour. However the constant pumping of sea water into the units will have led to the ground between the units and the coast being soaked with radioactive water.

    So in summary:
    a) It seems unlikely that there could be any groundwater connection between units 1-4 and 5-6.

    b) It is likely that there is a groundwater flow along the interface between the natural topsoil and the mudstone layer.

    c) It is very possible that there is a reservoir of groundwater sitting in the foundations of units 1-4 and all other structures in the locality which could become involved with the corium.

    d) The natural rate of replenishment of this groundwater reservoir will be quite slow.

    e) Cooling water added to the reactors will be adding to the local pool of water around the plant’s foundations, and will hasten the downslope flow towards the sea.

    f) Any water heading east will prefer to use manmade ducts and pipes in favour of taking the relatively slow path through the soil. By now any soil between the reactors and the sea will be saturated with very radioactive water – mostly x sea water.

    Thats the way I see it.


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    • arclight arclight

      good thoughts..also the land itself has dropped unevenly, and that leads me to suspect fault lines from the earthquakes may have created pathways for water or maybe corium to go…it sounds like the mud stone around the plant has at least buckled? is it brittle and prone to cracking? are there faults nearby?


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      • There have been reports of cracks in and around the concrete at plant and in reactors areas that they have tried to fix some of !
        Article’s here on site !
        Also Photos I have seen of long cracks on site of plant !
        Safe to say there has been movement on the site, I posted a video link a while back of where you can see clearly the foreground and background on cam of the plant moving as if it was on a sea of water floating/bobbing back and forth side to side ! FRIGHTING UNREAL !
        Posted other video of near by town were the earth is liquidating under peoples feet in the streets ! Many areas in Japan are reclaimed land filled with sands and refuge on an already unstable landmass !


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    • VanneV anne

      I think Arnie Gundersen knows more than you. He says that groundwater contamination is much worse at Fukushima than Chernobyl. Whatever the speculation no one can get close enough to the nuclear plant to test the groundwater because of so much radiation.

      And whatever the test results that can be made the nuclear industry will continue to give out false reporting. Industry is like mob rule. People do things in a mob that make it greater than the whole. The mob will collectively condone behavior that those people as individuals would never approve.

      For those shills on this website. Think as an individual not as a member of a gang. Gang psychology always makes for a short, unproductive life.


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      • arclight arclight

        http://fairewinds.com/content/fukushima-groundwater-contamination-worst-nuclear-history
        “Finally today, I wanted to talk about liquid releases from the reactor. Just yesterday, Fukushima 5 and 6, (now they are a long way away from Fukushima 1, 2 and 3), were still pumping radioactive water out of the basement of the turbine halls. Well, what that tells me is that the groundwater on site is contaminated. In order for groundwater to be contaminated, there has got to be a leak in one of the containments. Remember all this water is being poured in on the nuclear reactor and is now lying in the bottom of the containment. We know Unit 2′s containment is breached and we know that water has gone into trenches all over the site. I don’t think all of the leaks have been fixed. It would be hard to imagine all of the leaks being fixed. The big one that headed out to the ocean is but I am not convinced that all of the leaks have been fixed. Which means that water is seeping into the ground table and there will be contamination on that site for a long time to come. It could also move inland. This is groundwater; it doesn’t have to move out to the ocean. It is clearly moving to the north. So ground water contamination on Fukushima will probably be the worst we have ever seen in nuclear history.
        The second thing is, within the Fukushima prefecture, one town is now reporting radioactive sewage sludge. I don’t know how that got there. Clearly that is a very disturbing issue. It could come from ground water. It could come from rain runoff. But it is a major concern. Now that sewage sludge was sold as construction material and has been shipped out of the Fukushima area. So some of the radioactivity is now going to have to be chased down, where it went as cinder blocks, and concrete blocks. They will have to be recovered. But that is a major concern that we will have to keep track of.”
        I seem to remember a discussion on the physics forum about this too! (more research)..the geology is an ancient mudstone deposit and they carved into it to make the foundations for the plant…I have read somewhere that there is groundwater under or near the site but unable to varify as yet…about the contaminated sewage…would the contaminated rain water accumulate cesium etc in high enough quantities? Even if 5 or 6 is higher doesn’t the depth of the basement areas have to be taken into account? Photographic evidence of buckling, could water be travelling through new underground fissures..were there fissures there before the big earthquake? Hmmmm…will have to give this some thought!!


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  • beamofthewave

    I want to thank everyone, and I did not know about the nuclear reactors there and the chemicals in the water. I miss her too myself. If reactor 4 goes off, I will have her stay to avoid more fallout. Otherwise I will bring her home.


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    • alasanon

      That’s good that you are trying to protect her from Plutonium hot particles and the like!… I’d probably send my pets elsewhere, not to mention a young daughter!…
      I’ve been in 2 places since the explosions began…I’ve only noticed a few symptoms in the location that can get a smack from the Jet Stream. Location does make a perceptible difference. My family in less exposed areas haven’t noticed anything…vs.the folks in Hawaii, etc.! I can’t imagine what the Japanese are feeling…
      It’s interesting how people may need to give up a lot of nice material things for what really matters: the health & security of your loved ones. Well, let’s hope they have these priorities?…


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  • Contaminated Water Levels Beginning to Drop at Fukushima Daiichi
    The company says water levels in the basements of the reactor buildings could drop by more than three feet by next month. About 120,000 tons of water have accumulated in basements at the facility and in storage facilities. …
    http://safetyfirst.nei.org/japan/contaminated-water-levels-beginning-to-drop-at-fukushima-daiichi/


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    What goes up must come down…the original explosion sent tons of nuclear material..upward and outward..then the rest fell straight down.
    TONS of it.
    Is reading through this wiki bit on corium..
    It details what corium is made up of..nuclear,fuel,fission products and control rods.
    It is a product of nuclear fission and a state of nuclear fission in its own right.
    Here is what it looks like…please note that this is not the current state of the reactors..they are in an earlier more active state.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tfmnrt0R1I
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Here I offer …a link to one of the most precious things on earth..groundwater.
    In it’s various forms..it is easy to see how easy it is to have groundwater contamination in the area.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater
    Fukushima is built up on an ancient lake bottom.
    When this stuff hits ground water…will it cause and explosion… ?
    …. it’s still a scientific possibility.


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    • The main explosion potential is the hydrogen build up under ground and if it pocket and creates a bubble/balloon effect underground could cause devastating effects on the grounds above causing a rise in the earth in/around the plant area,…and it ignited by some external spark flame as it seeps from the earth as it exists ie machinery,.. exist may be from path it enters the earth or a path of least resistance, cracks from previous earth quakes,.. or new one allowing sudden bursts of huge amounts instantaniously,… may be able to escape areas without explosion if there is no spark or flame from something to ignite !
      Very troubling if vase quantity is able to build causing huge areas of earth to be moved by displacement of space required under large amounts of pressure,.. Much as a volcano erupting,… here’s hoping it can find a path to exit and not be engined by spark or flame, … either way a quake could release with such unknown potencail,… areas should be monitored for gases in areas and to use abundance of caution in these areas,.. and look for ground movements and rises to foresee future anomalies !


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Because I feel a feel a little rebellious this morning..I’m going off topic.
    Leaders, true leaders love their people..an ancient and noble thought.
    The archaic ideas of honor, mercy, and COURAGE must live on.
    Whether we are the examples of vitality or of the ailing masses..we must uphold the very best in humanity ..before it is too late.


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  • mungo mungo

    looks like no.2 puffing again….


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  • pif

    Better translation of the article in French here:

    http://fukushima.over-blog.fr/article-fukushima-apres-le-melt-through-le-melt-out-le-corium-attaque-les-nappes-phreatiques-79905647.html

    (The French-English machine translation is much better than Japanese-English !)


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