“Worst Ever”: Alarm over shocking crash of salmon population in Pacific Northwest — “Very frightening… Pathetic… Grave… Disastrous… Non-existent” — Official calls for immediate government action — “Something majorly wrong is happening in our oceans” (VIDEOS)

Published: November 18th, 2015 at 6:38 pm ET


Globe and Mail, Nov 12, 2015 (emphasis added): The collapse of major salmon runs in B.C. this fall… prompted First Nations to request “an urgent meeting” with newly appointed federal Fisheries Minister Hunter Tootoo. Chief Bob Chamberlin, chair of the First Nations Wild Salmon Alliance, said the disappearance of millions of pink salmon headed for the Fraser and the collapse of the Adams River sockeye run underscore the need for immediate government action. “Only about 2,000 fish made it back to the Adams River*. That’s supposed to be one of the biggest, most precious runs of sockeye in the world,” he said Thursday. About 1.2 million sockeye were forecast to return to the Adams… No explanations for the failure of the runs to materialize have been given by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans… Mr. Chamberlin said… “This year’s runs have made it abundantly clear that our salmon stocks are in grave danger“…

Globe and Mail, Nov 4, 2015: British Columbia’s iconic Adams River salmon run… appears to have collapsed… Jim Cooperman, president of the Shuswap Environmental Action Society, said the spawning beds… are empty this fall… “It’s pretty grim here at the Adams River … it’s quite depressing here really.”… Because the fish mature at four years of age, the runs are on a cycle, which means each one usually reflects the progenitor run that occurred four years before [i.e. 2011]… it is the worst return ever on that cycle; the next lowest year was 1939, when 16,000 fish came back. Mr. Cooperman said the small return represents “a very frightening crash,” and two successive poor years should set off alarm bells

Salmon Arm Observer, Oct 27, 2015: Sockeye numbers shockingly low… South Thompson sockeye run has been disastrousNo late-run sockeye were observed in upper Adams… Four years ago, late-run salmon were in the millions, sparking hopes of a large return…

CTV, Nov 6, 2015: Alarm sounded after dismal sockeye salmon return to iconic B.C. river

CTV transcript, Nov 6, 2015: One of B.C.’s most important salmon runs just hasn’t happened… The story it’s telling is ugly. (Jim Cooperman, president of the Shuswap Environmental Action Society:) “This is a collapse. This is a crash. It’s very significant.”… What’s missing is the salmon. Normally by this time of year with the spawning over, you’d be seeing a scattering of sockeye carcasses along the Adams River — but today you’re hard-pressed to find a single one… Government biologists say [it’s been] very disappointing.

Global News, Nov 6, 2015: [T]he number of sockeye returning to the Adams River is down sharply from the number originally expected. Now a local environmental group is raising concerns the return may be a sign of even bigger problems. “It was pathetic,” says Jim Cooperman, president of the Shuswap Environmental Action Society.  “That tells me that there is something majorly wrong happening in our oceans… think [of] salmon as the canary in the coal minewe have some major concerns and it is not just the salmon.”… “We can say the returns are significantly below what we had preseason forecast,” says Stu Cartwright, Fisheries and Oceans Canada… federal authorities don’t know why fewer sockeye returned this year than originally expected.

Vancouver Sun, Nov 3, 2015: The late South Thompson sockeye run has seen far fewer fish than expected… “In terms of the sockeye return, it’s much more disappointing than people were hoping to see this year,” said Greg Taylor, senior fisheries adviser for the Watershed Watch Salmon Society… “They arrive in the spawning grounds in October, and the numbers they’re seeing are disturbingly low.”… Taylor noted that this is the second year in a row that both the early summer and late summer components of Shuswap sockeye returned at levels well below pre-season expectations.

Vancouver Sun, Sep 9, 2015: [A] fish expert says this year’s salmon season seems to be non-existent… “I didn’t smoke or can anything this year,” [Ken Ashley, director of the Rivers Institute at the B.C. Institute of Technology] said…

The Province, Sep 10, 2015: “I think we’re looking at the gradual biological extinction of salmon” [said First Nations fish adviser Ernie Crey]… Crey, 66, has been studying the situation for 35 years, first as a member of Fisheries and Oceans Canada… “This year’s run on the Fraser will be one of the lowest returns we’ve seen,” [fisheries scientist Brian Riddell] said…

Watch broadcasts: Global News | CTV

Published: November 18th, 2015 at 6:38 pm ET


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  4. NOAA: Young herring “suddenly disappear” from Pacific, no one can find them; “This is an enigma, something’s happened” — Millions of missing salmon raising alarms; “Very odd… Very strange… Most different year ever… It looks really bad” — Fishermen catching only huge numbers of jellyfish (VIDEO) July 6, 2015
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520 comments to “Worst Ever”: Alarm over shocking crash of salmon population in Pacific Northwest — “Very frightening… Pathetic… Grave… Disastrous… Non-existent” — Official calls for immediate government action — “Something majorly wrong is happening in our oceans” (VIDEOS)

  • Henri Lentonen Henri Lentonen

    I am just going to leave this link here.. Massive link list of animal mass deaths!


  • carolann28752 carolann28752

    1. Warren, thank you for emails. DONE!
    2. Sadie, hon, enough already about Dana. Let me explain to you the principals of giving: you give freely, cheerfully, and without expectation of a reward. You don't ask for what you've given to be returned! Sounds like you have allowed alot of bitterness to creep in…. forgive him and LET IT GO! Move on! Ask yourself, is a Geiger counter really worth all this?!!

    • Thank you, Carolann.
      and the Geiger counters Dana was GIVEN were donated by two people. One of them, to be sure, is not this person.
      I think someone has been playing a game with everyone.

      We give because we have it in our hearts to give. Those who consider their giving, "loans", should stay out of the giving-business, all together. And they should stay out of the business of anyone who wants to give to others, too. When I donated to Dana, I considered it a gift, to myself (and the world.)

  • melting mermaid melting mermaid

    Wouldn't they be easier to defeat if we quit arming them first. I will never understand

  • From GLobalnews:
    Why do these so-called scientists keep calling each species going through ELE (collapse, extinction), "canary in the coal mine"? They cannot ALL be labeled as such. And, by the way, the CANARY is the canary in the coal mine. Where are they these days? Like other birds; dead?

    Cripes, these idiots. I've had my fill.

    • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

      "..They cannot ALL be labeled as such.." , right on AnneB , they have to be looked at togheter , combined , and realise we are far past the "canary in the coalmine stage" of this disaster..

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Concerns over anchovy numbers prompt plan for new stock assessment
    Nov 17 2015


    "SANTA CRUZ >> Amid concerns that the anchovy population along the West Coast might have “collapsed” due to environmental factors, regulators committed Monday to update a 20-year-old stock assessment for the fish, but not to enact stricter harvest rules as some groups had hoped."

    Prompt plan for new stock assessment.
    What ..they think if they spit in the hands ..they'll show back up?
    Then ..FISH ON.

  • Sam Sam

    Notes on Arnie Gunderson and Majia Nadesan at
    Sonoma State U. last night.
    1. over 1/3 of audience had no info. on Fukushima
    2. audience comprised of about half students.
    3. no publicity in local Press Democrat
    4. Arnie Gunderson basically said there is nothing
    that can be done about Fukushima. He did say
    that earlier on Tepco should of built a zeolite wall
    facing Eastward, not on ocean side. He said nuclear
    industry failed completely.
    5. Arnie said he does not eat pacific sea food
    there is no testing . Scientists too afraid to speak up and out on the issues.
    6. Did mention all the spent fuel pools in America
    containing so so much lethal radioactivity.
    Majia basic point was that the American public
    has been sold a pack of lies regarding Nuclear
    from the beginning. We all were conned into the
    safety of Nuclear even though in the mid 40's and early
    50's most Americans were leery of nuclear energy.
    There should be events like this happening all
    over America, small gatherings where information is
    shared and people come together.

    One comment about the atmosphere here at EEN.
    Lets get back to being civil with each other and
    elevate the discourse. Even though the reality of
    this catastrophe keeps on being grim it does mean
    that we here have to descend into the gladiator pits
    with each other for whatever reasons. There is an
    old saying, you don't know what you have until you
    loose it. Support this site by being civil , open

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Fish On .. by the way..(don't want to be plagiarizing), is from Lindemann feat. Rammstien, newest.

    A graphic display of giving over to that all important alpha predator mentality, along with sexism, and extreme gratuitous violence BS.

    How much do these TENDER THOUGHTS, run our lives?
    FISH ON, f*&^Kers.

    Lindemann go behind the scenes of Fish On video
    Nov 15 2015


  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    What cha reckon this is about?

    New law empowers U.S. to combat illegal fishing and seafood fraud and promote the sustainable management of international fisheries
    Nov 6 2015


    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog


      "…The plan also highlights ways in which the United States will work with our foreign partners to strengthen international governance, enhance cooperation, and build capacity to combat IUU fishing and seafood fraud. This includes the Administration’s work to secure historic and enforceable environmental provisions in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a regional trade agreement that includes countries that together account for approximately one-quarter of global marine catch and global seafood exports.

      The principles include:

      Enforcement capability

      Species misrepresentation

      Catch document scheme

      History of fishing violations

      Complexity of the chain of custody and processing

      Mislabeling or other misrepresentation

      ***Human health risks*** [emphasis mine]

      The list of at-risk species that will be the basis for the upcoming traceability program include (see Federal Register notice for Scientific names):


      Sea Cucumber

      Atlantic Cod


      Blue Crab





      Albacore tuna

      King Crab (red)

      Bigeye tuna

      Pacific Cod

      Skipjack tuna

      Red Snapper

      Yellowfin tuna

      end quotes

      Control Fukushima contaminated product without public awareness?
      Damage control for the nuke industry, whom has already taken ownership of the Pacific- and killed it. And..TiPP.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    It's about CONTROL.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Weirdly scary..in a female.

    Watch How Hillary Clinton’s Security Handles Man Calmly Holding Sign Critical of Candidate During Rally
    Nov 18 2015


    Hillary Clinton Campaign Staff Demand Video “Roast” Be Taken Down
    Nov 19 2015


    And what has this got to do with Fukushima.
    She signed a pact that there would be no testing for radiation in products Japan.
    She needs to be stopped.
    And it has to happen within the Democratic party.

  • freebywill

    FDA approves genetically modified salmon for consumption in US | http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/19/genetically-modified-salmon-approved-by-fda.html

    The approval comes with the condition that the salmon be raised only in two specific land-based, contained hatchery tanks in Canada and Panama, and not in the United States.

    The FDA said Thursday that while the law does not require food containing the genetically modified salmon to be labeled as such, it "supports voluntary labeling" because many consumers "want to know whether their food or any ingredients in their food is derived from genetically engineered sources."

    • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

      "..while the law does not require food containing the genetically modified salmon to be labeled as such, it """""supports voluntary labeling""""".."

      No matter how clear it is by now how infinitly deep in to the black hole of pure evil the moral compass of coorporate greed and corruption is calibrated..i still manage again and again to be blown away by statements like that..the nerve..the crime..

  • demise demise

    Obama is about to snap as his failures at every level are collapsing around him. Expect him to push the EPA to control
    even more of your lives as the socialist close ranks for a last push. Do not expect anything as far as help with radiation poisoning because it would cost too much, but the EPA will control
    all the resources on your private property for the good of the state.
    Sounds like a message from communist Russia or China.

  • Gasser Gasser

    Radioactive Bucket list

    Price Anderson Act has been nulled and voided on day one of the new POTUS stepping into office.

  • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

    Species "mysteriously" washing ashore is the illegal harvesting and dumping of them on the west coast.

    The dead whales et al were not "taken" legally, for science or food, but taken illegally due to negligence and profit.

    One count for every dead animal and species.

    Perhaps NOAA or WHOI will be the voice of the victims.

    Or not.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    And what becomes of the subsistence fishermen/and those that subsist???

    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

      Their boats will be TiPPed.

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        To subsist will be criminalized.
        Welcome to the reservation/plantation.

        "Likewise in Botswana, Bushmen are criminalised for subsistence hunting to feed their families and denied access to land and water whilst their government hives off portions of the game reserve in which they live to diamond miners and western tourists."

        'Last Days of Ivory' promotes a military conservation that is fatal for tribal peoples
        Nov 17 2015


        • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

          The more the blindfolded mindset that allowed all the disasters to be created in the first place , realises those emerging disasters are the real thing..the more their shortsighted reactions to do something about it will do even more shortsighted damage..
          Replace that entire government with the bushman and even despite a total lack in "political experience"..both the elephant's , the bush , the bushman and the population as a whole might actually gain a new chance of longterm survival..

          • Marcie

            Disaster…..old, rich, white guys have been killing people who take only what they need and give back to the earth for a long time. That's hard work! And it requires ethics. Where is the power, control and excesses in THAT? Those bushman, they are unambitious and deserve to be regulated out of existence by the big guys that have always run things…into the ground.

  • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

    If I don't make it back, ask Cullen where I went.

    He may fail at finding Fukushima, but I see he's pretty good at hunting down activists with big mouths.


    Later peeps.


    Senate Hearings Focuses On Sea Level Threat To Energy Facilities Including Nuclear Power Plants

    Population below 4 ft: 4.9 million

    Energy facilities below 4ft: 287

    Ocean thermal expansion

    Interactive map

    There will be no "adaptation" for this human-caused disaster, except abandonment..


  • Gasser Gasser

    Radioactive Times Ahead

    With Japan embarrassingly bowing out of its three runaway Corium's allowing World coordinated explosive experts to drill under the Nuclear complex and successfully set off 1000 underground implosion that has engulfed the entire Daiichi and Daini complexes into a 5 mile deep 50 Kilometer radius crater, that now has 50 thousand Kobota and Caterpillar Bulldozers from around the World standing by to Bulldoze in all of the Northern half of Japan into this massive crater to cover it up, saving Tokyo and the World.

    The following day at a Willy Nelson Save The World Concert out in the middle of the desert in Iran, 6 Billion people world wide arrived to celebrate this Fukushima implosion day, ending the ELE, and resetting the Doomsday Clock to 1:am starting the new ZNA (Zero Nuclear Age)

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    U.S. government proposes 17-year delay in start of Hanford nuclear tank cleanup — until 2039


    They act as if we have all the time in the world.

    • Sam Sam

      Arnie Gunderson of Fairewinds Institute last night
      at Sonoma State U. said that there is an increasing chance
      of hydrogen gas explosions at Hanford nuclear tanks.
      What is downwind? Eastern Washington, Idaho and
      the upper tier states of Montana eastward. let alone
      the Columbia River Basin and Portland Or.


    • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

      "..They act as if we have all the time in the world.."

      Yeah , let the manmade dominoes fall as they please when they please..you never know if our actions to reverse our dumbness might actually prevent a miracle from happening..and we all happen to agree here in the leading positions that we dont want to be guilty of such eventual blasfemy..our economist's agree too sooo..good luck everybody..

    • Slylandro Slylandro

      HOTR – glad I caught your post cause I was about to post this myself.

      OMFG are you kidding me!? "Carpenter noted that the federal government has been spending $690 million annually on the waste treatment plant for more than a decade." And they want another 25 years just to get it operational??

      If history is any indicator, and it sure the hell is, they will NEVER EVER get this operational. These bastards make damn good money, so it's no surprise their ferocious tenacity to defend a golden goose no matter what. They'll milk life, death, disease, poverty, whatever, till their hands (or lips ;-)) fall off.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Compound stupid.

    “If anyone ever wondered about the wisdom of locating an underground radioactive dump site on an active fault line, this shows why.” In 1998, the site was found to be 10 times more prone to earthquakes or lava flows than earlier estimated."

    Nuclear Waste Peddlers Still Pushing Yucca Mountain Dump
    Nov 19 2015


  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Highway to Hell

    When it comes to radioactive waste shipments, are accidents inevitable?


  • For those feeling discouraged, emotionally raw, burnt out, etc…

    Indigenous Elders and Medicine Peoples Council Statement And Interfaith Prayer, Meditation For Global Healing; Fukushima Mega Nuclear Disaster

  • Not a single comment here RE this is the last day to comment to the NRC on the monsters who propose hormesis to replace LNT


    If you have already commented, let me know. Otherwise let me know if you are commenting today.


  • morph morph

    stock and goodheart
    i respect you a lot, can you please take over my effort on f-diary?.. it is so hopelesss to communicate with banana..
    I am really tired and will not answer to him…



    GOM Disclaimer :
    To whom it may concern::

    Let it be known that I do not support the actions of one, Dana Durnford or his cohorts that defend his actions.

    I do not support violent actions against person/s who work for or in any government position or by association.

    I do not advocate violence in regards to the Nuclear Industry, it's employees or their families or associates.

    I do not support violence directed at any Scientists, or their families, friends, ect..in any capacity.

    I do not support violence against those who are Pro-Nuclear or Anti-Nuclear.

    I hereby resign as a 'poster' to Enenews.

    Thursday, November 19th, 2015

  • Leland Leland


    This is A public Notice Under California Civil Code § 52.1
    Dr Ken Busseler is not a Physicist Nuclear or otherwise he has a doctoral in Marine chemistry.
    this is a public notice
    M.I.T. University does not offer Marine Radio chemistry as A course, adding that most university's don't or have dropped it
    Status: Drop Course Approved
    This Expedited Drop Course Proposal is being done after the completion of the Courses Not Taught in 3 Years Report. It was determined by the College of Earth, Ocean and Atmospheric Sciences as not needed.

    M.I.T. requirements for Nuclear physicist
    Those who become nuclear physicists have a strong background in physics, mathematics, and computer science. Nuclear physicists have advanced academic degrees, and have spent years studying their field and conducting independent research.

    Dr. Ken Buesseler

    Employment History

    Chemical Oceanographer
    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

    Marine Chemist
    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

    Senior Scientist and Director
    Center for Marine and Environmental Radioactivity

    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
    360 Woods Hole Road
    Woods Hole , Massachusetts 02543
    United States (508) 548-1400
    Edward A Boyle
    (617) 253-7544
    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute Program (WHOI) Faculty

  • Jebus Jebus

    All one has to do is read. Then one see's who keeps posting it up.

    Then one can see the agenda's, and realize what is trying to be thrown down.

    Out of all the sites, w/blogs, that ever have mentioned it in passing, before and after the legal(?) event, why would one keep bringing it up here… Don't bother, it's rhetorical.

    Names, labels, sticky glue, and projected association.

    False logic…

    My, my, it's a game to see… 😐

  • It’s all connected:

    The Most Brazen Corporate Power Grab in American History


  • Here’s South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, speaking last month. The terms ‘swivel-eyed loon’ and ‘batshit crazy’ are a tad pejorative, so I won’t use them here. Oh, and bear in mind that what America is doing in Syria is totally against international law…


    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      Is Syria a territory of the U.S.?

    • You forget, there is OIL in them thar Syria.. so the US military must fight to get the oilllllsss for the US oil companies, like they did in IRaq and Afghanistan.

      Who cares that there are now 15 million Syrian refugees? The US does not care, nor want them, according to the Republicans.

      Who cares that the US sending in troops to Syria may trigger WWIII with Russia, Iran and others? Got to get the oillllssss before them Iranians and Ruskies gets it..

      Got to WIN, and might as well practice using some of those new steerable NUKE bombs, and teach those ruskies a lesson, by God.


      That is his attitude, even though he does not say any of this…

      They may very well get more than the above, if there is a Republican war friendly president elected, and there are already several who have announced going to war with Syria, before they are even elected.

      It all fits in with the PNAC agenda too, and America must follow that to the letter. So far, so good, right on track.. Iran is coming up soon.

    • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

      Scary monsters , superfreaks..

  • Jebus Jebus

    History shows us, that is what an oligarchy does when threatened with impending revolution…

  • demise demise

    Never in my wildest dreams that I thought I would actually an actual dead Pacific Ocean. On it's last legs of life, once the massive blue marvel full of life on this blue marble in space is sure as dead now. Man is the virus on this planet that like other plagues kills it's host.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Time only goes forward…

    Enter Sandman.




    It's not like one of them won't be President in 2016… 😐

  • Cooter

    One river, the Adams, out of how many hundred's of rivers in BC has shown not to have abundant sockeye salmon.

    The Columbia river on the other hand is set to break records for sockeye salmon;

    “The sockeye (single-day) counts are really cranking up with (10,134) counted (on Tuesday) at Bonneville.” (in one day over 10,000 salmon were counted!!!

    The Adams River Facts;

    "2015 Adams River Sockeye Salmon Run, British Columbia
    2015 is a sub-dominant year and you may see 100,000+ sockeye return to spawn in October. Usually the salmon return during the first 3 weeks of October with Thanksgiving being the peak weekend."

    These folks don't see a problem. Only the scientists see a problem. Sometimes the runs are good and sometimes not so good. When the run is not good the scientists say the sky is falling, so they can get their grant money to find out why. It's a system that has been going on decades.

    Lets wait until the run is OVER (mid Dec.) and then lets revisit the Adams River. The height of the sockeye salmon run is around Thanksgiving.

  • Gasser Gasser

    Radioactive Times Ahead

    Dana has just won the Canadian 50 million Loonie Lottery and is donating it all to the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

  • I have a Master Degree from U of Michigan in Material Science and am very well versed in nuclear and radiation.

    It is beyond reckoning that the "medical industry" supposedly based at the most basic "Hippocratic Oath" level of "Do No Harm".

    Radiologist "Doctors" are some of the highest paid in the industry. They probably think it is cool to treat cancer with radiation. For the most part that is just short of insane.

    Carol Marcus should be ashamed, especially as a woman" to insist that women, girls, and even fetuses be allowed to be blasted with up to 100mSV per year. "remove any differential treatment" is the nice way of saying "blast them just the same as a nuclear plant worker during an accident.

    Although LNT itself is rather "silly" to use as a standard, if you are looking for something that is correct per science. I mean, LNT is based upon nuclear bomb exposure in Japan, extrapolated down to zero. Although it sets a somewhat conservative safety level, It just doesn't make sense out of the gate compared to the numerous different isotopes and radiation related heavy metals humans and animals are now exposed to.

    That said, tossing out LNT because it is not perfect, and replacing it with "hormesis, radiation is good for you, is absurd, i am kind of shocked that the NRC would even consider this.

    Now we know the nuclear industry is shutting plants left and right, and Vogtle, if it ever goes critical will double or…

  • or triple the electric cost. And we know the NRC, if not captured, surely promotes and tries to protect the nuclear industry. After all…no nuclear industry, no need for the highly paid salaries at the NRC.

    Miller, Doss, and Marcus are in cahoots in writing their letters all about the same time…strategically staggered. To create the appearance that "a lot of people are supporting hormesis". In fact, Miller and Marcus used almost exactly the same letter….with the exception that the woman Dr Marcus added "Why deprive them of the benefits of radiation" without presenting a bit of evidence of the "benefits"

    These letters are quite sloppy in fact, like the sloppy thinking that radiation is good for you. Per Miller and marcus "Worker doses should remain at present levels, with allowance up to 100mSV effective dose per year if the doses are chronic". 2 points here:
    1) The ploy of "remain at present levels" while at the same time suggesting an increase of 100 fold is almost sociopathic in the nature of saying things that are completely contradictory as a way to through people off their game.
    2) and then saying "allow up to 100mSV if doses are chronic". Were they in their right mind while writing this? Chronic means recurring, so they are saying 100mSV is OK is it keep occuring year after

    • to the NRC

      any of you got game? or you just like infighting? Get fucking real folks. Wake up and get effective.


    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      stock, do you agree with this statement?;

      "we live in a sea of radioactivity, the danger is in the dose"

      • Code, why do you ask in that manner? Sounds like a setup….but I will play, nuke warriors….come out and play….

        at least joust about

        No there is some natural radiation but not a sea of it.

        "the danger is in the effective delivered dose, based on bioaccumulation in multiple organs, other usually heavy metal toxic effects, and negatively synergistic effects with other radioisotopes and heavy metals." the external versus internal issue is of such magnitude that any nukist who does not address it in every comment shall be de facto guilty of a crime against humanity.

        Ya Thar Code, done fixed it for ya! stock out.

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          The Earth breaths and she is breathing in all these Manmade Radioactive Poisons! 🙁

          For how long will she survive?

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          stock, yes a setup. Thats Buesselers slogan. Why the setup? Ocean radiation from Fukushima close to the nuke plant was still half or less than the natural radioactivity of the ocean. On the North American coast fallout radioactivity is 1/1000 ths natural level. Yet it appears that this low level is devastating the ocean ecosystem.

          The LNT model…danger is in the dose…does not support the observed effects. Even with bioaccumulation, it does not. Elsewhere I have ballparked that, and Buesseler et al have measured radioactivity in plankton, the supreme bioaccumulators and found it below levels of concern according to the LNT "danger is in the dose" model.

          Isnt this the crux of the argument? Mainstream says its safe, observation says its not safe. You could add in heavy metal toxicity, and this is important. Again the levels are extremely low.

          The conclusion is that either fallout is far worse than assumed or there are other factors at play. I think both are true. However proving low level fallout is far worse than the cherished and much fought for LNT model is not easy because most arguments for this would have to apply to the background radiation also, which is much higher than fallout. That is why I focus on differences between the two, searching for potential reasons for a difference in toxicity. Perhaps its a misguided fixation, but without it, all of the arguments I hear are swiftly nullified by comparison to background. Thanks…

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            cont… Of course arguing for a difference in toxicity of isotopes is not immediately satisfying. Busting the mainstream fixation on radiation dose is not easy and the idea is firmly fixed in the mind of pro and anti nuker. An obvious place to start is hot particles, nano alloys which include alpha emitters. Nothing new there. You could go further; natural processes that precipitate dispersed radionuclides into concentrated dose points. Note the average dose remains the same. Im reminded of a friend who got cancer in multiple tiny points, post Fukushima. We started on that tack with concentration factors from ocean aerosols. Perhaps sea foam polymers act like ion exchange resin?

            Another valuable argument is the non linear effect of low level radiation; the bystander effect. This is not clearly quantified for different isotopes and can result in a factor of 50 increase in cell mortality…these are non radiated cells that received NO dose.

            The other part to dismantling the mainstream deadlock of comparing fallout to background is recognizing that background may not be as toxic as they think…or even toxic at all. Certainly some natural radiation sources pose danger..perhaps not all. Two points stand out; this was natures default baseline, like it or not, and secondly, potassium radiation danger has never been proven by test.

            Yes, its the Code broken record. But without breaking the "danger is in the dose" mentality, its clear anti nukers are losing the PR…

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              It doesnt help to try and prove that the world was free of radiation before the nuclear era or that the greatest burden of radioactivity is from the nuclear industry. This effort actually backfires.

              There is a fundamental difference that seems obvious to me; the animal world is getting sick quickly, perhaps mutating to oblivion within a few generations. (…genomic instability, another factor no linear to dose.). This is taking place with far less radiation dose than deemed dangerous at all! Isnt that a hugely significant fact? No such trend was taking place with the radiation existing since life began and over millions of life times. Ancient protocells had something on the order of 1 million becquerels per cubic meter.

              Consider that Overall, the worldwide average effective dose rate from natural background is about 2400 microSv . For comparison, worldwide average effective dose rates from weapons fallout peaked at 113 microSv about 5% of background in 1963. We have it that 60 million people died from that. Today we rival weapons fallout again. Today fallout is still dwarfed by natural radiation. Now the ocean seems to suffer from a mortal blow. Bust the Buesseler/mainstream slogan "we live in a sea of radiation, the danger is in the dose" to joust, or perpetually lose the argument.

              The NRC hormesis proposition is hideous…how could it go through? But look at where we are with the LNT model! All that death…because of a belief in the LNT ICRP model….

              • oldster

                Some ways of defeating or contradicting or weakening or undermining the "we live in a radioactive (natural) ocean/environment, so a bit more is only a bit more of a problem":

                a) The question is: what is the total toxic complex/load, all things considered? The answer is guess-worthy, can be tentatively offered/stabbed at, but unknown, thus calling for humility, not hubris, and the precautionary principle. The parable of the straw that breaks the camels back.

                b) The artificial radionuclides, are unnatural, alien radioactive materials, plutonium being a prominent example, and come as pernicious components of what may be highly toxic congregations of materials.

                c) The harmful synergistic effects, toxic multiplier effects, toxicity augmentation potential, of conglomerations of unnatural radioactive materials intersecting with life processes, are not well understood, but well enough understood to be very concerned; or have been lied about, covered up: thus the precautionary principle.

                Apologies for dashing this off, I must leave this for now, but I'll revisit this; more points that could be made. The art of it is how to express these so that they are reduced to useful sound bites that have real bite while retaining integrity.

  • I gotta say that the info I get from some of the comments on this site both actual info and "editorial" is very thought provoking and much superior to the mainstream McNews.. I fight by being a minimalist. No internet at home among other things like no car.
    So I am not participating as much here and often am just a lurker these days although I have been here since 2011.
    As a Canadian I am so proud our new Prime Minister said you can't pick environment or economy anymore the two are tied together. Used to be huge salmon cannery industry here in bc and its gone. No doubt Fukushima radiation is moving through the food chain and affecting salmon and many other species. However overfishing bad farm fish practices general polution plastic in ocean etc etc also play a role

  • Sickputer

    SP: Yes AB… There is indeed a plethora of sick canaries in the world coal mine:

    Birds in America: January 8, 2015
    "Unprecedented: ‘Cataclysmic’ die-off of birds on entire West Coast — Beaches covered with dead bodies — Professor: It’s tragic… never seen anything like this… We ignore it at our peril… Canary in the coalmine for us… Scrambling to figure out what’s going on with ecosystem."


    Sea stars west coast: April 21, 2015

    "Yet sea stars are known to be canaries-in-the-coal mine:They're always the first ones to go"


    Birds in Japan: April 30, 2015
    Like the proverbial canary in a coalmine, avian abundances may paint a grim picture of the effects of nuclear disasters on wildlife


    And the most intelligent canaries in a coal mine…the US Navy:


  • Marcie

    It may seem obvious at this point, but I want to tell everyone to stop eating fish….ANY fish from ANYWHERE. The radiation in the Pacific is not just in the Pacific Ocean anymore. And the food we buy can say that it's from anywhere and it's not necessarily true. I have gotten sick on tuna fish a few times over the last year and have cut it out of my diet with all fish, and suddenly I feel fine. Please, it's not worth it. Protect yourself and your family. One last note, don't give your pets anything with fish ingredients, either. The government is not going to protect us.

  • RattleShark RattleShark

    I don't want to sound alarmist or anything but if you look back through enenews headlines for the past 4.5 years , + wipp , + west lake + GMO foods and Trumps toupee , things are looking pretty bleak.

  • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog


    "All activities are decay corrected to April 6, 2011, the
    date of the maximum direct radioactivity discharge into the
    ocean (3)."

    Code, this is the $4 million plus study from WH/KB in Japan waters. What do you think of this statement, above? Do you know if the samples were applied by the same scientific application as the crowdsourced specimens?

    original article, N/A:

    "…This report describes the presence of the gamma-emitting isotopes 134Cs (t1/2 = 2.07 y), 137Cs (t1/2 = 30.07 y), and 110mAg (t1/2 = 250 d). With their shorter half-lives, any 134Cs and 110mAg seen in our samples could only be derived from the 2011 Fukushima NPP releases. …"

    "…Concentration factors for 110mAg were not calculated because dissolved concentrations could not be measured using our seawater method, which was specific to Cs isotopes only. …"

    Because, because , because , because, because…

    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

      (Fukushima-derived radionuclides in the ocean and biota off Japan

      Ken O. Buesselera,1,
      Steven R. Jayneb,
      Nicholas S. Fisherc,
      Irina I. Rypinab,
      Hannes Baumannc,
      Zofia Baumannc,
      Crystaline F. Breiera,
      Elizabeth M. Douglassb,
      Jennifer Georgec,
      Alison M. Macdonaldb,
      Hiroomi Miyamotod,
      Jun Nishikawad,
      Steven M. Pikea, and
      Sashiko Yoshidab

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      HillBilly…actually I like the way Buesseler wrote his paper. I get the feeling he is not obfuscating and that he believes his position. The problem of dose and danger is insidious. You can see he finds a few bq/m to some hundreds with two or three standouts under 4000 bq/m3. I dont doubt his figures, do you? Compare (and they all do) to K-40 at 10,000 bq/m3 and this is the argument that anti nukers face. Only by proving that fallout is much much more deadly than thought (per radiation dose) or that this background is much much less dangerous than thought, will anti nukers win this argument. ITs not easy!

      There is another study of the plankton and the levels again are low, much lower than I would have thought. But the radioactive ones die and fall to the bottom, cleaning the upper layer and more plankton take their place. I think they are counting on this since it was known since Chernobyl.

      • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

        Doubt the figures? No. I couldn't see publishing results that were not accurate. I do have issue with testing being limited to cesium. This, I have made abundantly clear. "Lack of funding" is a cop-out. Limitless resources and equipment. Asking for money and beach samples of ocean water from the public is misleading and ommissive. Comparing to natural radiation is also misleading. As if Fukushima is supposed to be there and poses no health risk.
        Also, how can a scientist say that it is safe to eat food stuffs that test positive for cesium-137 FROM FUKUSHIMA, without testing for any of the other radionuclides resulting from Fukushima ? Careless and irresponsible. Because a food has K-40, one is lead to believe that as long as there is less fallout in the food than K-40, the food is safe to eat. There is no safe dose of plutonium or strontium-90, correct? So why are they not testing for and releasing results for the more dangerous elements of Fukushima? And why only water samples and shallowest samples? Sketchy.
        I could go on, but it is late. I think it's a scam and a sham.
        This will be my last post for awhile.
        Peace good people.

        • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

          "All activities are decay corrected to April 6, 2011, the
          date of the maximum direct radioactivity discharge into the
          ocean (3)."

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          Hillbilly, I agree with your points. I think they did post to depth though. It would have been interesting to know the total radioactivity, then broken down by isotope. It is often stated that C-137 poses one of the greatest risks from fallout and I guess it is easier to test for. I did run across something on the ratios of the different Fukushima releases but didnt save it. What was I thinking? Might even be from TEPCO. I missed that they stated April 6 as the greatest release…something wrong there for sure. As Jebus and others point out, no toxicity is complete without considering heavy metal effects. Look how bad common lead turned out to be. Anyway, if you doubled the figures to account for non tested radionuclides, you still have more radiation from k-40, their gold standard of comparison. One Hiroshima bomb every hour for over a year…thats the reality they never approach

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            typo, test to depth, post till the wee hours

            • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

              Magician, I find your claim of corruption hard to believe.

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              PT, its the ocean contamination we were talking about. Look at the links provided by Hillbilly and read the test results. Go to Woods Hole "our radioactive ocean" to learn more. Either you cant figure out that Im anti nuclear or you can, either way it doesnt look good! Why dont you attempt to argue directly with Buesseler or NOAA or Cullen by trying to prove that fallout exceeds natural radiation? Why dont you, then come back and tell us the results?

                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Did the radiation stop flowing on 6-18-11?

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    Obe, the initial releases dominated the fallout scenario. The leaks and ongoing fission products are small by comparison. Not to downplay the seriousness of ex vessel corium of three or four reactors!

                    For me, the important implication is that if the world stopped all nuclear, the world would have a chance. This does not seem to be the outlook of the people who insist the radiation is exponentially increasing and will increase for 100s of thousands of years.

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Yes, we must stop all nuclear! 🙂

                      Unless every inch of the all affected areas can be checked at the exact same time.

                      Such research shows very little accuracy potential in the scheme of things we call "out of control" Nuclear.

                      Some effort is better than no effort! 🙂

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Obe, radionuclide contamination for many important and dangerous isotopes from the bomb test era have decreased markedly. The I-131 from Fukushima is a striking example. The main plume of iodine has since decayed to insignificant levels. Scientists call this safe. Yet millions of animals will have received thyroid damage and 100s of thousands…millions, will get thyroid cancer (humans and other animals), so it can hardly be considered zero risk! Yet for future generations, the I-131 will be gone (until the next inevitable nuke disaster!) and they WOULD be free of that risk, if only the nuclear insanity would end. Of course other isotopes last essentially forever. But still, there is no reason to throw up our hands and say the game is over. They ended nuclear bomb tests and so saved the lives of millions.

                  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                    Some people consider K-40 as a stable isotope because the half-life is so long (1.3 billion years) and because the radioactivity is so weak.

                    All Code's extensive posts to prolong propaganda from Pandora's Promise is just pro-Nuke propaganda.

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  PT…its right in the abstract of the link mentioned by HillBilly. You were looking at buesselers supporting information page showing details of measurement. But if you read the test results on pages 5,6 and 7 of course you could corroborate the abstract.

                  Here it is and I think you owe us an apology for continually hounding us with false or irrelevant information. You have a PhD, know 18 languages, just learned Japanese and the pictographs, were nominated multiple times for Whos Who in America, yet cant figure out that Im anti nuclear. Thats all I do here is try to make valid arguments against the nuclear cartel and its mouthpieces. You fight me every step of the way and have been wrong 100% of the time. String of bad luck I guess because you cut and pasted half the library of congress and statistically you should have been right a fair amount of time without even trying. Plus you said you were calling the FBI on Hill and me.

                  " We address risks to public health and marine biota by showing that though Cs isotopes are elevated 10–1,000× over prior levels in waters off Japan, radiation risks due to these radionuclides are below those generally considered harmful to marine animals and human consumers, and even below those from naturally occurring radionuclides. "

                  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                    Wow that last paragraph is rather startling! 🙁

                    Who stated that?

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      darn it obe, why do you think Ive been going after the Buesseler/Woods Hole/NOAA theme for so long? That paragraph is Buesseler et al, but it could be any oceanographic institute. No one is paying attention…

                      Even if they test the whales and even if they shared the true data, they wouldnt find enough radiation to cause them concern according to the mainstream model of radiation risk. How many times must this be said?

                      Civilization has been throwing billions at cancer research and still cant figure it out. Its been 44 years since President Richard Nixon's declaration of a “War on Cancer.” How long will it take them to figure out the death of the ocean?

                      The anti nukers arent going to win this war by trying to argue that the world wasnt radioactive or that fallout is more than it is or that scientists are just stupid or something. (I know, I know, I call them stupid!)

                      I keep saying that Bandazhevsky showed heart damage at less than 50 bq/kg (probably C-137) while all animals from conception contain 70 bq/ kg (probably K-40). What does that fact mean to you?

                      In fact the war wont be won. The effing cartel will just decide it makes more sense to put their money into solar or something. The world cant sustain the fallout that scientists believe is harmless, thats the plain fact of the matter.

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                      plus 1, minus everything

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Busseler is even saying you shouldn't eat the fish off the West Coast of North America:

                      “At that point, it was certainly safe to be there,” he says, smiling slightly through a red beard that shows signs of graying. “You could swim in those waters, but you probably don’t want to eat the fish.”

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog


                      PraisingTruth: "Busseler is even saying you shouldn't eat the fish off the West Coast of North America:

                      “At that point, it was certainly safe to be there,” he says, smiling slightly through a red beard that shows signs of graying. “You could swim in those waters, but you probably don’t want to eat the fish.”"


                      He specifically states on the west coast you "don't have much to worry about".
                      He was referring to Fukushima location, specifically, in the quote taken out of context and misrespresented here by PT.

                      "…The ocean around Fukushima was originally contaminated with 50 million times the normal amount of cesium-137. Yet when Buesseler arrived at the site with his research team two months after the initial meltdown, he found the ocean had diluted it to just 100,000 times the normal amount. While exposure to high concentrations of cesium-137 can increase cancer risks and even cause burns or death, it’s a number that sounds scarier than it actually is.

                      “At that point, it was certainly safe to be there,” he says, smiling slightly through a red beard that shows signs of graying. “You could swim in those waters, but you probably don’t want to eat the fish.” "

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HillBilly, you would spend the rest of your life trying to correct PT. It never ends. Buesseler and many other scientists CERTAINLY compare fallout to K-40. Why should one even try to argue that point with her. Ive said so many times to look at his website. She has even said she couldnt find it. Something crazy is going on, who knows if its intentional or just nuts. I have spent so many hours defending all the statements that otherwise would pass without question, like how much K-40 is in the ocean or in the cells, or the age of the oceans and life on earth. Its just too much…its crazy man. But if you can entice her to stalk your posts instead of mine, that would be appreciated!

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                      It's plain to see that you have much to offer, therefore, must be chased off by the conspirators, Code.

                      I admire your perseverance and armor- but surely it cannot be good for you.

                      If it worked, they would win that part and we would be without your important insight and direction, but you might live a few more days…or years.

                      I see motive, intent, deception, harassment, malice- others see little old ladies praying in the pews, just struggling to get from point a to point b. I do not see it that way.

                      I have also been a target, albeit not to the unacceptable extent that you have. I am truly sorry for that.

                      Thank you for your wonderful contributions and whatever you do, I support you.

                  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                    How does this support your assertion that K-40 is their (whose?) gold standard of comparison. Gold standard for what? And how does this support your assertion that a person gets most radiation from K-40? What do you even mean by "more radiation"?

                    “…you still have more radiation from k-40, their gold standard of comparison…”

                    The paper you cite just talks about just one isotope of cesium. Buessler has stated that there are worse radionuclides in the ocean to worry about. Why ignore this statement over and over again?

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      PT you seem to be saying K-40 is pretty safe. The other week you made no less than 80 posts trying to prove that I was wrong when I said K-40 is pretty safe. (safer than they say) When I said K-40 is their gold standard of comparison, it means that so many scientists compare fallout to K-40. This is because its the predominant radioactive source in the ocean and in your body. If you think that assertion is wrong, you need to read up. But you have made hundreds of posts trying to refute me, so how could you not know these basics? Is it even possible? Lets assume you really dont know; OK, go back and read the papers Hill mentioned and you will see that the measured quantities of radioactivity for C-137 ranged from non detectable to 3800 Bq/m3. You can make the average if you like, it looks like under 100 bq/m3 to me. But you double it because the ratio to C134 is about 1 to 1. Add in maybe 20% for the other isotopes. Maybe the average is 200 bq/m3 or less, but you would have to check yourself, Im not going to run those numbers. But even the highest reading is 3800. Call it 8000 bq/m3 total and that is still less than the 10,000 bq/m3 from K-40, the predominant oceanic source of radiation. You posted hundreds of posts trying to refute that figure by the way. How can you hope to argue against the nuke cartel? Im trying to help that effort in my small insignificant way but you impede the flow

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Scientists do not compare fallout to K-40. Only the nuclearist cult does.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      My argument with you is that you say that K-40 is hormetic as are other radioisotopes.

                      K-40 is not completely safe under every circunstance.

                      Now you are creating a straw argument to argue against something I have never said.

                      You have great experience in sophistry. But what is the goal of sophistry in arguing against someone who quotes scientists to prove the antiNuke position?

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                      PraisingTruth: "…Buessler has stated that there are worse radionuclides in the ocean to worry about. …"
                      Code, I have to agree- You gotta start worrying about the "worse radionulides".
                      I challenge you to find articles in which Buesseler addresses these "worse radionuclides", using a scientific approach, rather than conjecture, assumption or media hype and where he also does not associate those findings with the "gold standard", naturally radioactive element(s) ((K-40)). Don't bring us any lame excuses, like "lack of funding to test the collected samples for strontium-90", or "dissolved concentrations could not be measured using our seawater method, which was specific to Cs isotopes only".
                      Also, please do not waste our time posting Buesselers talk at the meeting held with Dr. Helen Caldicot and others, in which he states that they (natural radioactive elements and Fukushima radionuclides, in the ocean) "should not be compared". That was BEFORE the backpedaling went into a fervor…and you know…science has changed.
                      So, get on it.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Buesseler: “The U.S. government has failed us because they don’t analyze ocean waters for radioactivity,” he says.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      “…Last November Buesseler warned, ‘Radioactive cesium from the Fukushima disaster is likely to keep arriving at the North American coast.’ Fish eaters may want to stick with the Atlantic catch for 12 generations or so….”

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Here are the last words of this 2011 article by Buesseler and others:

                      “., any assessment of radiation dose should also consider long-term exposure if the NPP remains a continued source of radionuclides (5) and if, as has been reported, coastal sediments are contaminated with multiple radionuclides. “

                      The amounts of radionuclides released from Fukushima are today known to be many orders higher than the information released during 2011. Also it is now known that the corium is nowhere to be found but must be continually washed out by the ocean.

                  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                    Sexual harassment is illegal and is physical and violent and threatening intimidation.

                    Any intellectual debate on the dangers of nuclear radiation always degenerates into ad hominem attacks and threats of violence against me.

                  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                    Buessler has said that you can't eat the fish caught off the shores of Japan. Why do you continually ignore this statement of his?

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      PT, I am not sure you have a good idea what is really going on when you look at the big picture.

                      The oceans are trashed and have been for a very long time and this would be worldwide just based on the pollution in all forms dumped into the oceans by everybody everyday.

                      Add the Nuclear to the mix over the past 70 years and there is not a safe fish to eat anywhere on this planet and that would be off the Japanese coast and/or any other coast.

                      You can not defend the in defensible! 🙂

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      I've never said the ocean isn't trashed. This is a straw argument, obewan.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      This whole attack on me started from the fact that you can't support this statement you made:

                      “…you still have more radiation from k-40, their gold standard of comparison…”

                      Wrongly asserting that scientists refer to radioactive fallout to K-40doesn't mean that Busseler ever made such a statement.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      There are no nuclear scientists who state that K-40 is their gold standard for comparison. No scientist is so simplistic.

                      And misquoting Busseler over and over again is no way to argue against the nuclear cartel. To argue against the nuclear cartel one nees to be accurate and scientific.

                      As Busby has said, "blah, blah, blah."

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Whats the worry? – Dose or hot particle? Chris Busby
                      “There is a lot of argument about the effects from Fukushima on the Pacific and the US west coast. I have just been reading one site “true facts about ocean radiation and. . .blah blah “.
                      “I agree with the author about the total radiation concentration (activity) in sea water less than 30Bq/cubic metre. The calculation I made show that its unlikely that the total radioactivity levels in the [ocean] will be higher than those which we had in the Irish Sea or the Baltic Sea, but the problem is the particles, and these are not described by “radioactivity levels”.
                      “I attach a picture of an edible mussel (myrtilis edulis) from the Irish Sea. The tracks are from a hot particle, which would end up inside you if you ate it.”

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                      PraisingTruth: There are no nuclear scientists who state that K-40 is their gold standard for comparison. No scientist is so simplistic.

                      And misquoting Busseler over and over again is no way to argue against the nuclear cartel. To argue against the nuclear cartel one nees to be accurate and scientific.

                      As Busby has said, "blah, blah, blah."

                      END QUOTE

                      PraisingTruth: Sexual harassment is illegal and is physical and violent and threatening intimidation.

                      Any intellectual debate on the dangers of nuclear radiation always degenerates into ad hominem attacks and threats of violence against me.

                      END SECOND QUOTE

                      The paper in question does so state. It is a disservice to the authors to state absence of statements or inclusion of statements erroneously, when in fact, one has not read nor comprehended the paper, nor represented it in it's context.

                      It is an insult to me to see reputable professionals repeatedly highlighted in comments, just after incriminating, accusatory, liable statements of illegal and personal nature that are both paranoid and delusional, are aimed at other reputable commenters in an ongoing effort to assasinate their character in an unfair, bias, prejudice, public and harassing manner.

                      You should stop.

                      If you can't have a civil debate and include yourself in friendly or human discourse, then leave.

                      I will now be reporting any comments made by PT, of personal or derogatory nature, directed at anyone.

                      Including the last one.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Are you really criticizing Dr. Busby?

                      Whats the worry? – Dose or hot particle? Chris Busby
                      “There is a lot of argument about the effects from Fukushima on the Pacific and the US west coast. I have just been reading one site “true facts about ocean radiation and. . .blah blah “.
                      “I agree with the author about the total radiation concentration (activity) in sea water less than 30Bq/cubic metre. The calculation I made show that its unlikely that the total radioactivity levels in the [ocean] will be higher than those which we had in the Irish Sea or the Baltic Sea, but the problem is the particles, and these are not described by “radioactivity levels”.
                      “I attach a picture of an edible mussel (myrtilis edulis) from the Irish Sea. The tracks are from a hot particle, which would end up inside you if you ate it.”

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      And where is one quotation with a link of a scientist who uses K-40 as the gold standard of radiation comparison?

                      Instead of providing a citation, just another ad hominem attack on me.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Links provide the reader with a full discussion and context of any statement. Otherwise, the statements are just hearsay.

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog


                      "…We address risks to public health and marine biota by showing that though Cs isotopes are elevated 10–1,000× over prior levels in waters off Japan, radiation risks due to these radionuclides are below those generally considered harmful to marine animals and human consumers, and even below those from naturally occurring radionuclides. …"

                      Now, quit.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      From the same article which was written in 2011 and submitted for review December 19, 2011:
                      “…Concentrations at the NPP ocean discharge channels peaked in early April at more than 50 million times preexisting ocean levels of 137Cs (5). Though considerable data have been released in Japanese reports regarding the concentration of selected radionuclides in the air, soil, and coastal discharge sites, large uncertainties remain, including even the magnitude of total atmospheric releases (6) and direct discharges (7). There is also little information on radionuclide distributions offshore to help assess contamination and transport in the North Pacific and for independent confirmation of whether the levels are of human health concern….”

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      HHDog, you still didn't cite a scientists who uses K-40 as the god standard of comparison for radiation leathality. Instead you quoted a statement that talked about natural sources of radiation which includes not only K-40, but uranium, thorium, polonium, radium, and radon:

                      “…The Earth itself is a source of terrestrial radiation. Radioactive materials (including uranium, thorium, and radium) exist naturally in soil and rock. Essentially all air contains radon , which is responsible for most of the dose that Americans receive each year from natural background sources…”

                      Here is your quotation. Are you equating uranium, polonium, radium, radon, and thorium to K-40? And in your opinion is K-40 harmful or not if they are all just like K-40?

                      "…We address risks to public health and marine biota by showing that though Cs isotopes are elevated 10–1,000× over prior levels in waters off Japan, radiation risks due to these radionuclides are below those generally considered harmful to marine animals and human consumers, and even below those from naturally occurring radionuclides…."

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      TYPO: gold standard

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                      Truther, maybe they're referring to coffee beans, who knows.

                      "You still didn't…"

                      Huh? I was busy cleaning up all your other messes, gramma.

                      Don't be offended though, cuz I'm blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      hear Buesseler describe why Fukushima fallout is no health concern as he compares quantities of C-137 to K-40 in a swift and common industry move that leaves ENEnewsers defenseless! (I think Buesseler et al believe it too) ;

                      Buesseler begins his review of his test findings on Fukushima oceanic contamination by discussing the quantity of C-137 from different events; "we use these really strange units for something you cant taste see or hear, but Ill try to stick to becquerels. "Global nuclear weapons testing released 1000 peta becquerels, Chernobyl 85 PBq, Fukushiima up to 60 PBq.
                      "you should also know there are many naturally occurring radionuclides in the ocean, potassium 40 being the largest one. SO in these same units 15 million petabecquerels [of k-40] are in our oceans that also decays, thats why its measured in becquerels." Uranium-238 gives 37,000 PBq

                      code; so the obvious conclusion is that fuku radioactivity is 1/300,000ths k-40 and C-137 and k-40 quantity pose no risk.

                      at 42:40 Cullen then compares the test results on a whale for C-137 and K-40 in the graph


                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Buessler doesn't actually say there is no health risk. In the question and answer session he says the risk is not zero but that the risk is much less than in Japan waters in April, 2011. He says that it is up to people what amount of risk they are willing to tolerate (very roughly paraphrased).

                      Buesseler only includes estimates of petaBecquerels of cesium released by Fukushima compared to nuclear weapons testing, but doesn't specifically say anything about using K-40 as a comparison. He never says that it was safe to eat the fish before Fukushima. He puts up the estimates, but doesn't say anything about K-40 being safe or Cesium less safe because there is so much more K-40.

                      The chart for the grey whale comes from this article:

                      Analysis of Beached Grey Whale in British Columbia for Fukushima Radioisotopes
                      May 6, 2015

                      Again, Jay Cullen, says nothing about using K-40 as a comparison. It is just presented as a result of the testing done.

                      All the people I trust have said for the number of years I've been reading on the subject (1989 on) that all animal products are not safe to eat because of the radiation and other factors of bio-accumulation of toxins and vegetable sources are not safe if exposed to food irradiation , pesticides and herbicides and GMOs.

                      They included tuna off the coast of Calif., but not the more…

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      recent testing that has shown Cesium 134 from Fukushima found in fish, and they did not include the results of testing that showed fish with Strontium 90 and Plutonium off the shore of North America. They did not say that fish is free of other nuclear radionuclides. These are definitely sins of omission. The amounts of cesium from Fukushima are probably many times higher than what was on the chart. If Japan has a ban on releasing information, these low figures may be the fault of Japan.

                      One of the charts about cesium in fish in Japan were from 2011/2012 and did not include any figures since then. This is also a sin of omission, but is it Japan's or Buesseler's? Certainly the ban of fishing in Japan still exists and should have been mentioned.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      This comes from Fukuleaks/Simplyinfo:

                      “…These numbers were established by using the range of estimates that were either “all radiation” or at least included cesium 137 and iodine 131 for the initial phase of the disaster.
                      “These totals are for the time period through December 12, 2013
                      Sea high: 960 Pbq
                      Sea low: 520 Pbq…”

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Many times Buesseler and Cullen say there is no risk. They mean stochastically insignificant risk. Buesseler compares C-137 from Fukushima to past events [1/10 bomb test era] and to K-40, the predominant oceanic source of radioactivity [cesium being about 1/500ths or less that of k-40]. You disagree? Incredible. How many times does Buesseler and the rest have to say that radiation from fukushima is way below any standards for health risk before you will admit he says this?

                      Why are we even stuck on this point? Why argue it? You have lost, better to move on. Move on where? Well I think its worthwhile to find reasons why the mainstream risk model (LNT ICRP model) grossly underestimates damage and as a side note, that it probably overestimates natural radiation danger, as assessed by natural observation; 0 bq/kg of k-40 has not destroyed life on the planet over endless generations, where the same amount of radiation from C-137 has been shown to produce heart abnormality…a morbidity. Why do you argue this? Thats Bandazhevsky. I can tell you with confidence that you would utterly lose an argument with mainstream scientists. Please present your argument to Buesseler and report your results. Please do this before continuing to hound my every post. Prove your conviction, or be judged as groundless at best.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      typo; nature thrives with 70 bq/kg of radiation or dies out from it, depending on isotope. Thats your factual starting point

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Cullen describes in the video the rational for testing cesium. He says the quantity of radiation from the other isotopes is small by comparison. So the idea that there must be large unaccounted for radiation from fallout is erroneous, based on scientific reasoning. The problem, as I see it, is that the ICRP LNT dose model is not accurate, and the form and fate of fallout is not properly taken into account. Measurement error is probably not the main failure of the scientific effort

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Its my understanding that much of the air release ended up in the ocean. About 80% of the total release of 18000 PBq gives 14000 PBq for the high end estimate.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Where the dose deception occurs is in the slide at 5:45 which says "The danger is in the dose". He omits to explain that there is a difference in danger depending on whether the isotope is K-40 or any other isotope.

                      Code, again you are also deceptive when you say it depends on the dose and when you say that there is n0 danger from K-40 at all. You are also making a mistake of the dose scam. There are other factors than just dose involved. There is no medical use of K-40 alone. And there is plenty of artificial or man-made K-40 and artificial potassium compounds which include K-40 which are harmful.

                      There is no radiation hormesis from any radioactive isotope including from K-40 and the medical profession tests for levels of potassium because too much or too little are extremely harmful to humans and can cause immediate death.

                      It is also wrong to say that life thrives with 70 Bq/kg as this figure is not a magic number and not all thriving humans have that much K-40. The figure is really 4 to 70 Bq/kg where life used to thrive. With so much man-made radiation and other toxins no one is any longer thriving.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      No one knows how much K-40 was in people a hundred years ago or 200 years ago because there was no testing done. And in 1900 the life expectancy was only under 50 years.

                      Present day reality is the only thing that has any real value. And we are in a mess.

                      Please publish your speculations in a peer review journal and let it be peer reviewed.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      August 27, 2015 at 6:08 pm
                      Putting Codeshutdown's rants on k-40 in perspective to what you just wrote,
                      it seems he is trying (my interpretation) to ward off the primordial fears that
                      Fukushima brings like THE DEATH OF THE PACIFIC OCEAN and all what that
                      means. Arguing that we humans adapted to k-40 biologically and no great harm from it
                      can give false assurance that just maybe we will survive the radiological poisoning
                      of the Ocean by our wonderfully adaptable human biology.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      November 20, 2015 at 1:26 am
                      Code, why do you ask in that manner? Sounds like a setup….but I will play, nuke warriors….come out and play….
                      at least joust about
                      No there is some natural radiation but not a sea of it.
                      "the danger is in the effective delivered dose, based on bioaccumulation in multiple organs, other usually heavy metal toxic effects, and negatively synergistic effects with other radioisotopes and heavy metals." the external versus internal issue is of such magnitude that any nukist who does not address it in every comment shall be de facto guilty of a crime against humanity.
                      Ya Thar Code, done fixed it for ya! stock out.

                  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                    Actually, I also took a free class through edx.org in Chinese, and I am now taking a free online class on coursera.org from Beijing University in Chinese writing.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Languages I studied with other scripts include: Cherokee, Sanskrit, Greek, Arabic, Persian, Turkish before the 20th century, Aramaic, Ukrainian, cuneiform of Akkadian, Egyptian hierglyphics, Aramaic, Hebrew, Hungarian.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      PT, are you kidding? Weve exhaustively, and I dont use that word lightly, exhaustively proven that the body keeps potassium under strict homeostatic control and that the k-40 fraction of potassium is a known constant to 4 or 5 decimal points. Thus we have proven to you with patience and exhaustive references that the radioactive load from k-40 is nearly constant from embryo to death and from prehistoric times until now. By dredging up your old disproved arguments you have proven beyond doubt that you are either mentally unsound or deliberately disruptive. Frankly, you are a loose canon, a government informant and a detriment to the anti nuke community and ENEnews. I didnt come upon this judgement quickly or without considerable consideration. Please leave me alone when I make my humble posts, thank you

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      I trust Dr. Chris Busby and Dr. Helen Caldicott and Dr. John Gofman and Dr. Ernst Steinglass.

                      You are not a scientist and have done no research in the field and have no scientific degrees at all. Please go to school and get the scientific Ph.D. in the correct field and publish your results to be peer reviewed.

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      I will never trust anyone who has treated me with the abuse you have shown. Find another victim.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      PT thats like a childrens game. Why dont you agree to this pact; I will make no posts following or discrediting your posts and you will make none following mine. If you insist on following my every post then it will be proof it is you who stalk and disrupt…

                      End it now and permanently…what will it be?

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      Your unscientific theories of radiation hormesis pretty much matches the following, IMO:

                      Stanford researchers uncover patterns in how scientists lie about their data
                      When scientists falsify data, they try to cover it up by writing differently in their published works. A pair of Stanford researchers have devised a way of identifying these written clues.
                      November 16, 2015
                      “…There is a fair amount of research dedicated to understanding the ways liars lie. Studies have shown that liars generally tend to express more negative emotion terms and use fewer first-person pronouns. Fraudulent financial reports typically display higher levels of linguistic obfuscation – phrasing that is meant to distract from or conceal the fake data – than accurate reports.
                      “To see if similar patterns exist in scientific academia, Jeff Hancock, a professor of communication at Stanford, and graduate student David Markowitz searched the archives of PubMed, a database of life sciences journals, from 1973 to 2013 for retracted papers. They identified 253, primarily from biomedical journals, that were retracted for documented fraud and compared the writing in these to unretracted papers from the same journals and publication years, and covering the same topics.
                      “They then rated the level of fraud of each paper using a customized "obfuscation index," which rated the degree to which the authors attempted to mask their false results. This was achieved through a summary score of causal terms, abstract…

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      language, jargon, positive emotion terms and a standardized ease of reading score.
                      "We believe the underlying idea behind obfuscation is to muddle the truth," said Markowitz, the lead author on the paper. ‘Scientists faking data know that they are committing a misconduct and do not want to get caught. Therefore, one strategy to evade this may be to obscure parts of the paper. We suggest that language can be one of many variables to differentiate between fraudulent and genuine science.’…
                      "'Fradulent papers had about 60 more jargon-like words per paper compared to unretracted papers,' Markowitz said. ‘This is a non-trivial amount.’…
                      “But the change the researchers found in the writing, however, is directly related to the author's goals of covering up lies through the manipulation of language. For instance, a fraudulent author may use fewer positive emotion terms to curb praise for the data, for fear of triggering inquiry….”

                    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar PraisingTruth

                      I've tried to tell you numerous times that nuclear technology is killing my children. I don't comment on your every post. That is totally untrue. No matter what your threats, arguments in favor of the nuclear industry need to be refuted. And I won't make:

                      “A Pact with the Devil (a deal with the Devil or a Faustian bargain), is an agreement with Evil, in the form of the Devil, often (as in the story of Faust) with the paradoxical intention of achieving a higher Good that is otherwise obstructed. The nature of an agreement is a risky accommodation, so at the crux of objections to such a thing are questions–what has the person making the agreement traded to the Devil; can the person avoid being trapped or corrupted; does the agreement strengthen the Devil; is the greater Good compromised, and still unachievable?..”

            • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

              "All activities are decay corrected to April 6, 2011, the
              date of the maximum direct radioactivity discharge into the
              ocean (3)."

              PraisingTruth, PraisingJesus, VanneV? Please comment on the above quote.

              The paper also commits to "hydrogen explosion" and subsiding releases. Perhaps a correction is in order.

              • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                comments closed

                  • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                    If we were to assume that the paper was correct, that would mean that the authors had knowledge of an event related to the meltdowns at Fukushima. Where do they get this number? Do I need to reference the paper again? Did you catch it?

                    The paper also states it was a hydrogen explosion and water leaks that caused the ocean events in question (cesium-137), which is erroneous or at least insufficient, IMO.

                    That is, unless the authors were privy to information which proves this that I am unaware of.

                    However, I find that doubtful, as the other seemingly erroneous statements seem to obfuscate rather than employ.

                    In any event, it would be interesting to know exactly what took place at Fukushima, when, how, why and of course, where the cores of the melted nuclear reactors are and their condition. This paper doesn't address that, other than the statements highlighted here- and I doubt it was intended to, however, the public does have questions and we are listening…

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HillBilly, forgive me but I cant understand your implication. You have to spell it out I guess. The disaster started March 11 and the greatest releases seem to have occurred between the 15th and 18th although I havent attempted a close quantification. Sorry that Im missing your point. I cant figure out the relevance of April 6th. Buesseler seems more focused on ocean measurement with some attempt at release estimates, not so much the structural and explosive details. You can see he follows the mainstream story. But if one considers Sandia Labs mainstream, they dont ascribe to the hydrogen explosion for either unit 3 or 4…so there you go

                    • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

                      I imply that "April 6" is in question. Not to it's validity, necessarily, but to it's source and reasoning thereof, more importantly.

                      That question will likely remain open- at least for now.

                      I intend to start a new thread on heavy metals and their implications in marine pollution and to compare them to "fallout". Perhaps you can help? I posted a 1997 NOAA statement on the matter, over at stinking, rotting, decaying, dead whale story, in hopes to start such debate and discourse- as the other valued commenters had brought up bleaching- a known effect of heavy metal pollution. How does this apply to Fukushima? Care to explore?

          • HillbillyHoundDog HillbillyHoundDog

            Code, no "test to depth" for the crowdsourced samples…

      • Fukushima Compared To Chernobyl and 2,400 Open Air Nuclear Bomb Tests, Background Ocean Radiation Levels Pre And Post Atomic Age

  • Gasser Gasser

    Radioactive Times Ahead

    Scientist are baffled, befuddled, perplexed and stupefied when a six year old homeless girl hacks a flip phone she found in a dumpster, making it neutralize any and all radiation particles within a standing 5m radius.

  • Leland Leland

    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Fukushima radiation data scrub


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